Hss blanks

[SubtleHustle]

Hi, so I am tired of buying carbide inserts, and want to teach myself to grind hss blanks instead. Couple questions...what material to use, and where is a good source for good quality, low cost blanks? Also, what reference material can you all suggest, to learn the proper grinding methods? Thanks for any help. Also, I aim using a phase 2 qctp(axa), what size should I look at. 3/8? 1/2?

 

[RJSakowski]

Hi, so I am tired of buying carbide inserts, and want to teach myself to grind hss blanks instead. Couple questions...what material to use, and where is a good source for good quality, low cost blanks? Also, what reference material can you all suggest, to learn the proper grinding methods? Thanks for any help. Also, I aim using a phase 2 qctp(axa), what size should I look at. 3/8? 1/2?

It takes a lot more grinding to shape a 1/2" blank than a 3/8". You gain rigidity with the 1/2" blank but it is not that much of a deal for an AXA QCTP.

I actually use blanks down to 1/8". If you're making a tool for cutting a .030 snap ring , there is a lot less material to grind away. 1/4" blanks are useful too. My most used sizes on my 602 are 3/8" and 1/4".

As to material. M2 HSS is the common choice. If you are looking for a tougher tool, choose cobalt blanks. They are more expensive but perform better. For practicing, it has been suggested that you use ordinary mild steel key stock as it is easier to grind. and less expensive. another suggestion has been to make some visual aides from a piece of 2 x 2 wood. It is easier to see the various angles on the larger sample and easier to cut to form. Use them as a reference when you're grinding your tools.

Finally, when grinding tools, I mount the tool in a spare tool holder. It is easier to manage while grinding and it doesn't heat up as fast and you have better control when grinding the various angles.

 

[Ulma Doctor]

i generally get the biggest HSS blanks my toolholders can hold, and a few smaller 1/4" and 5/16" ones for unforeseen work.
i prefer old American HSS and Cobalt HSS blanks, like Rexcel and Mo-Max,
but the imported stuff has gained a lot of quality in the past few years.

I'd have a look at Shars, All Industrial Tool Supply, JT Machinery, and Ebay, all these sources have what you need.

Have a look at this well written and informative thread @mikey posted...
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/models-for-grinding-hss-lathe-tools.62111/

South Bend's How to run a lathe is also a very good book to become familiar with , even if you don't have a South Bend lathe

Tom's Techniques on YouTube is also a bevy of good info
That Lazy Machinist is really good and informative too on YouTube

 

[SubtleHustle]

It takes a lot more grinding to shape a 1/2" blank than a 3/8". You gain rigidity with the 1/2" blank but it is not that much of a deal for an AXA QCTP.

I actually use blanks down to 1/8". If you're making a tool for cutting a .030 snap ring , there is a lot less material to grind away. 1/4" blanks are useful too. My most used sizes on my 602 are 3/8" and 1/4".

As to material. M2 HSS is the common choice. If you are looking for a tougher tool, choose cobalt blanks. They are more expensive but perform better. For practicing, it has been suggested that you use ordinary mild steel key stock as it is easier to grind. and less expensive. another suggestion has been to make some visual aides from a piece of 2 x 2 wood. It is easier to see the various angles on the larger sample and easier to cut to form. Use them as a reference when you're grinding your tools.

Finally, when grinding tools, I mount the tool in a spare tool holder. It is easier to manage while grinding and it doesn't heat up as fast and you have better control when grinding the various angles.

Great info! Have a good source, or all they all basically the same, except the price? Also, what's some good learning material? Thanks again for the tips!

 

[SubtleHustle]

i generally get the biggest HSS blanks my toolholders can hold, and a few smaller 1/4" and 5/16" ones for unforeseen work.
i prefer old American HSS and Cobalt HSS blanks, like Rexcel and Mo-Max,
but the imported stuff has gained a lot of quality in the past few years.

I'd have a look at Shars, All Industrial Tool Supply, JT Machinery, and Ebay, all these sources have what you need.

Have a look at this well written and informative thread @mikey posted...
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/models-for-grinding-hss-lathe-tools.62111/

South Bend's How to run a lathe is also a very good book to become familiar with , even if you don't have a South Bend lathe

Tom's Techniques on YouTube is also a bevy of good info
That Lazy Machinist is really good and informative too on YouTube

Perfect! Just what I was looking for! Thanks!

 

[Bob Korves]

Since throw away carbide inserts and brazed carbide tooling have taken over the machining world, high speed steel (HSS) has become a niche item. Sad, because it is more generally useful than inserts are. It is also tough, and can easily be ground to whatever shape you can imagine. Places like eBay, auctions, machine shop closeouts, and Craigslist are good sources of bulk HSS lots, some of it new. You can sometimes find them in bucket sized quantities, covered in grime, for very little money. I have probably 100 pounds of HSS, bought less than one pound of it new. I certainly do not have $50 in the entire pile. A degrease followed by a soak in Evapo-rust makes them look like new. They are now sorted by size and style, ready to use or grind.

But wait, it gets even better! Used HSS is often already ground into tools, at least on one end. That usually takes away most to all of the time and effort required to rough in the tool blank into something resembling a tool. With used HSS, you can just grind it sharp again or modify one that is close into what you need. Another bonus is that the older USA made HSS is generally higher quality that the stuff now being imported from Asia. And it costs less, as much at 90% less, or even less than that if you shop wisely.

One more thing. It is worthwhile looking at the tool grinds that old timers, many of them now long dead and gone, put on the HSS. You can learn a lot by just looking at them and trying to guess what they were used for. It makes you think of all the ways that cutters can be shaped to do a job best. Even really short pieces of HSS are not junk, they are insertable bits for boring bars, fly cutters, and the like. You can make your own tooling to hold those short cutters and have a nice assortment of boring bars and other tooling at an extremely low cost, and you will learn along the way.

If you are doing production work for money, trying to get product out the door, then HSS may be too time consuming for you to use. Same when cutting really hard stuff. If you might be a hobbyist, like most of us on this forum, HSS is the best bet for most of your general cutting needs, and is also a good learning tool, teaching you what works and what does not work for a given job. There is lots of good information on this forum and on the internet for making HSS tools and working with them. Many newcomers to this sport leapfrog over learning about HSS directly to carbide inserts, but they are doing themselves a big disservice.

 

[Cadillac]

Bob is right on about buying used tooling. Ive bought shoe boxes full some ground some new and a spectrum of grades. Touching up the ground ones teaches you the angles so the works been done already. Shops have mostly converted to carbide so five gallon buckets full can be had for scrap prices.

 

[ttabbal]

When I started, I was planning to start with inserts as it seemed like the "way it's done". And if you're a production shop, that is the best way most of the time. Particularly if you have a big, fast, machine. For the smaller and slower machines hobby users tend to have access to, HSS is great stuff.

Most of my tools are ground from a box of 50 M2 HSS bits made in China. They work fine most of the time and are a great way to get started if you can't find buckets of it floating around. I still have most of the bits new in the box as you can keep sharpening them so you don't need a ton of them. I have an 11x27 lathe and AXA toolpost. I use mostly 3/8" HSS as it's more than rigid enough for my machine. I also have a few M42 cobalt bits and some Tungsten containing bits. My most commonly used tool right now is a simple square tool in 3/8 M42. Nice clean cuts on most things.

The insert tools are nice to have around when you need the abilities they bring to the table. For example, I have some material here that's hard enough that it eats HSS bits. Good inserts cut it very nicely. The Banggood inserts did alright, but the Iscar inserts cut it like a dream. 304 Stainless works well with them too.

 

[homebrewed]

Also check out Victor Machinery (@victornet.com) for HSS and cobalt blanks. I bought some cobalt 5/16" blanks there for about the same price other vendors were selling HSS. Since Enco was assimilated (Borg style), I've been buying more & more from Victor.

 

[kev74]

I've gotten a bunch of blanks and previously ground tooling from eBay auctions. Most came in lots with other tooling.