How to tram junk

[Tb1988]

new member here. Not sure if I’m doing something wrong but the search feature appears to no be working for me. Anyways I’ve recently acquired an index knee mill for I think a decent price. Everything works as far as I can tell. The back story on this rig is it was mainly used as a drill press in a printing facility. Given the shape of the bed and how many holes are drilled into the bed of the vise I would be more inclined to believe it came out of a high school shop class. Anyways I’m not building things that will be going to the moon so in most cases, close enough is good enough. However I would like to learn how to tram it and get it as true as i can. I’ve tried to search but like I said it doesn’t work for me. I’ve found a lot of videos on YouTube on how to tram but all the machines were in pristine condition. With smooth and ground beds and mint vice jaws. My question is does any one have any advice or tips on how to tram a machine with “Character” dings,dents, slight surface rust? Vice jaws that are not smooth? I’m not an experienced machinist by any means so I don’t know if I should strip the vise of the bed and put down a pice of glass to indicate off of? If I try to indicate off the bed the needle is going to be jumping all over since the surface isn’t smooth. I’m sure the proper solution is to remove the bed and send it off to have it ground or stoned or whatever they do to make them perfect but that’s not feasible for my needs. Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[Mini Cooper S]

First get a Norton round stone and stone the table. The entire table with the smooth side of the stone. once all the bumps are stoned away the Norton stone will slide smoothly acrost the table. For big bumps use the rough side of the stone but use discretion, you don't want to stone a hollow into the table. Then tram by using parallels or 1-2-3 blocks, this bridges the drill holes on the surface and gives a more reliable reference surface.

That is all,
Richard

 

[GeneT45]

I would stone the bed myself. Even if it's pocked, the high points need to lie in a plane, or there's not much point in the rest of the effort.

Do you have 1/2/3 blocks or any identical precision ground parts? You could lay one to either side of the spindle so that your tramming indicator is resting on those, and those are resting on the aforementioned plane of high spots. Glass could work, but is probably not as precise.

I would suggest buying new vise jaws if necessary (if they're really bad). If they've just got a ding or a bite here or there, stone them off and go to work. Machining a test block should tell you how well the foregoing went, although other factors come in to play.

GsT

 

[markba633csi]

If this is an Index milling machine I question the need to tram it at all- unless you are aware of a specific fault these things
are usually pretty well set up from the factory for the duration
New vise maybe- but little else should be needed

If the head nods then yes you would need to adjust that to be perpendicular to the table
You could mount a piece of drill rod in the spindle and use a machinist's square to adjust the head

 

[mmcmdl]

Mill tables and vises are HEAVY ! Many apprentices drill " lightening " holes thru out the vise and tables for easy lifting . ( so I've been told )
Follow the above recommendations and you'll be fine .

 

[Tb1988]

I would stone the bed myself. Even if it's pocked, the high points need to lie in a plane, or there's not much point in the rest of the effort.

Do you have 1/2/3 blocks or any identical precision ground parts? You could lay one to either side of the spindle so that your tramming indicator is resting on those, and those are resting on the aforementioned plane of high spots. Glass could work, but is probably not as precise.

I would suggest buying new vise jaws if necessary (if they're really bad). If they've just got a ding or a bite here or there, stone them off and go to work. Machining a test block should tell you how well the foregoing went, although other factors come in to play.

GsT

First get a Norton round stone and stone the table. The entire table with the smooth side of the stone. once all the bumps are stoned away the Norton stone will slide smoothly acrost the table. For big bumps use the rough side of the stone but use discretion, you don't want to stone a hollow into the table. Then tram by using parallels or 1-2-3 blocks, this bridges the drill holes on the surface and gives a more reliable reference surface.

That is all,
Richard

i will look into a stone, thanks for the advice

 

[Tb1988]

I would stone the bed myself. Even if it's pocked, the high points need to lie in a plane, or there's not much point in the rest of the effort.

Do you have 1/2/3 blocks or any identical precision ground parts? You could lay one to either side of the spindle so that your tramming indicator is resting on those, and those are resting on the aforementioned plane of high spots. Glass could work, but is probably not as precise.

I would suggest buying new vise jaws if necessary (if they're really bad). If they've just got a ding or a bite here or there, stone them off and go to work. Machining a test block should tell you how well the foregoing went, although other factors come in to play.

GsT

I do have a small set of 123 blocks. The vise jaws are very bad. I’m sure they will have to be replaced. Might even be better off to replace the vise it’s self.

 

[Tb1988]

If this is an Index milling machine I question the need to tram it at all- unless you are aware of a specific fault these things
are usually pretty well set up from the factory for the duration
New vise maybe- but little else should be needed

If the head nods then yes you would need to adjust that to be perpendicular to the table
You could mount a piece of drill rod in the spindle and use a machinist's square to adjust the head

That’s a good point. I’m kit 100% certain it needs it but I’m just trying to get an understanding of exactly how to go about checking it to see if I need to. I guess I was under the impression that you need to be able to indicate off the spindle and sweep the entire length of the bed to check.

 

[Tb1988]

Mill tables and vises are HEAVY ! Many apprentices drill " lightening " holes thru out the vise and tables for easy lifting . ( so I've been told )
Follow the above recommendations and you'll be fine .

Well it certainly has had the lightening procedure done to it haha.

 

[markba633csi]

I don't think you've told us what model of Index this is, but since it's an "honest to goodness" mill there really isn't any tramming to do
like you would on a small import machine which is made of separate pieces bolted together
I think you can safely just stone the table and start using it- I would

Unless as I mentioned the machine has a nod feature which might need resetting