How to power my new 10EE?

Thanks again Bill. Your help has been invaluable. As soon as I figured out how it worked (with a little help from you) the problem was apparent. The knob would NOT move. So I pried off the circular spring that holds the bullet into the detent. As soon as I got the pressure off the bullet the knob pulled right out. Apparently the bullet and the detent were no longer smooth. They both had burrs which were catching when I tried to move the knob. I cleaned everything up as you suggested and polished the bullet an the detent hole. It is still a little stiff so I might make a spring ring that is a little weaker.
I'll try to twist the sight glass rings out. I'd sure like to know how much oil is in there!!!
I think I have run out of questions for a few days so you can relax, but "I'll be BAAAAACK"

I don't know who Ross is... I'm Cecil.... but you just call me anything you want as long as you keep getting me out of jams.
Thanks again,
Cecil
 
purplepicker said:
...(snip)...I don't know who Ross is... I'm Cecil.... but you just call me anything you want as long as you keep getting me out of jams.
Thanks again,
Cecil
Click to expand...
Oh. I'm bad Cecil. Had a little brain fart. I must have had Ross on my mind when I was responding to your note, as he was coming over to my shop today. :shrugs:

Cheers, Bill
 
Cecil,

I'm glad to see that you decided the go the RPC route and keep the motor/generator drive. The fact that so many of these drive are still in service after 70+ years of service is a testament to how solid and robust they are. It hate it when guys who don't understand things electrical think they are "upgrading" one of these old workhorses by ripping out the DC drive and putting in an AC motor and VFD. With a great deal of work you may be able to equal the performance of the original drive with modern DC controls, but you won't improve on it. 10EEs have a lofty reputation for a reason and the performance of their drives is a big part.

The best way to go on the sight glasses is to make a pin spanner with 3 pins to twist them free. I recommend using BUNA rubber O-rings instead of cork gaskets when you put them back, that way you can pop them out as needed.

I always suggest flushing the headstock and gearboxes with kerosene and refilling. Only use fresh kerosene in the spindle bearing reservoirs and don't let it set in there since that may result in leaks into the center reservoir in the future. After I get the nasty stuff flushed out of the headstock and gearbox I recycle the kerosene by running it through an inline fuel filter. Get a transfer pump so that you can spray the inside of the headstock and get into all the nooks and crannies.

If your headstock has an overflow tube, disconnect it and flush it out with brake parts cleaner.

I think you said you were using Vactra in the apron and tailstock, if it's Vactra #2 way oil, that's the right stuff. I'm not familiar with the oils that you are using in the headstock and gearbox; if they are machine tool gear oils of the right viscosity, that's great. You should not use hydraulic oil since it's designed to work with a filter and doesn't have the same sorts of oxidation resistant and anti-foaming additives that a gear oil has.

You should plan on pulling the saddle and apron, cleaning and lubricating things. The saddle's pumped lubrication system is the Achilles heel of a 10EE. You want to make sure everything is working. The housing for the feed-rod worm gear is prone to collect swarf and can't be cleaned without removing the apron. The cross-feed screw and the compound don't have any provision for lubricating the screws, so you need to pull them apart from time to time, clean and lube. A lathe is like a fine firearm, it needs to be field stripped and cleaned periodically to keep it in tip-top shape.

Cal
 
Thanks for the input Cal. As it turns out the RPC in my case is also the most economical of the solutions as well as being the most noninvasive I was able to get a fairly modern Reliance dual voltage 7.5 HP motor for $40. I went ahead and blew $160 including shipping for the prewired selfstarting RPC panel. I could have built it for a little less but I figured my time was better directed toward the Lathe as opposed to building a pretty panel. I have had several similar suggestions on the sight glasses but they were all temporary in nature. I like the idea of making a simple spanner and keeping it in a dedicated tool box along with a few other dedicated tools which I can't help thinking will accumulate.

I was not aware of the apron oil system's vulnerability and quite honestly had not planned on pulling the apron. Oh well, now that I know better I guess I'll add that to my list.
remember I have no lead screw but do have a feed rod. Is there any possibility of sliding the apron off the right end over the feed rod left in place...probably not. Which means I have to pull the outboard bearing block and get the feed rod out of it's gear box and drop the feed rod with the apron. Are there any caveats you might want to give me about this procedure so that I don't have to look back on this experience with shame and sadness?

Velocite is Mobil's brand name for one of their spindle oils. It comes in light and heavy. Containers very similar to Vactra ... must read labels carefully!...Must not confuse!!!

My Main drive belts are serviceable but squeek badly and I will replace. I've already removed them to be sure the squeek was the belts and no a bearing. After sliding the idler rollers back I loosened the Motor mount nuts and pried the motor up just enough to get enough slack to get the belts off. Hope that was the correct procedure. I'm not so confident about how to get the exciter drive belt off. It looks like I might need to loosen the belt by backing off the exciter mounting and then removing the pulley set screws and pull both the generator and exciter pulleys off the shafts. This seems like a lot of work to change a belt but it might explain why the belt thats on there looks like it was born on the lathe in 1953. I think it is a credit to Gates (no not Bill) that that belt is still functioning at all.
Please tell me there is a better way to change the exciter belt

Thanks again to you Cal and to Bill who have saved me many hours of shameful and sad reflections.
Cecil
 
purplepicker said:
...
I was not aware of the apron oil system's vulnerability and quite honestly had not planned on pulling the apron. Oh well, now that I know better I guess I'll add that to my list.
remember I have no lead screw but do have a feed rod. Is there any possibility of sliding the apron off the right end over the feed rod left in place...probably not. Which means I have to pull the outboard bearing block and get the feed rod out of it's gear box and drop the feed rod with the apron. Are there any caveats you might want to give me about this procedure so that I don't have to look back on this experience with shame and sadness?
...
Click to expand...
Cecil

Pulling the apron isn't a big deal on your machine. The right bearing block should unbolt and just slide off the end of the feed-rod. If you go through the photos in this album, in order and read the descriptions (media info) you will see the steps involved. Ignore the stuff that doesn't apply to your machine.If you don't have the feed rod clutch the feed rod is pinned to the output shaft just like the leadscrew of the machine in the photos. See the note about identifying the end of the taper pin.

I like to block up the apron on a 2x6 across the chip pan and lift the saddle off of the apron. You can also use longer bolts to lower the apron onto the blocks and then carry it away.

I recommend removing the compound and cross-slide before trying to remove the saddle. This makes the saddle light enough that one guy can lift it without hurting himself. The photos and descriptions in this album walk you through disassembling the cross-slide:On your machine you can get the cross slide off by just running the screw to the end and sliding the cross-slide off the back of the machine. If you take it off the front you need to deal with the little setscrew that limits the travel of the dust plate. Make sure your dust plate goes back in the right way; the one in the photos was in backwards.

The compound has a pin in the bottom which is a close fit into the hole in the top of the cross-slide. Remove the compound by backing off the two clamp nuts and levering up on opposite sides of the compound to lift the boss out of the hole. Take your time, it's easy to get it crooked and jam it good if you're not careful. Disassembly of the compound is straight forward. Let me know if you run in to problems.

Cal
 
Thanks for the words and pictures Cal. I've got a friend lined up for this weekend to help me take the apron off. I think 4 hands as well as some well placed blocking will reduce the possibility of dropping something. I took the apron off my old 15 inch Cisco years ago and found that it was very touch and go with only 2 hands and half a brain.

I've already torn down, cleaned and reassembled the cross slide and compound. I don't have a taper so that's one less thing to clean.

Got my WNY 7.5 RPC panel today. Ran conduit, pulled wire and hooked up the idler. Started up the idler just fine and voltage balance looks great. Just a little high on the generated phase but I think it comes down when I load the lathe. Won't be spinning up the lathe til I get the new belts I ordered... maybe by the weekend..

I still haven't figured out how to change the exciter belt without pulling both pulleys with the old belt still on (or just cutting it off) and then re-mounting the pullleys with the new belt in place.

Thanks again,
Cecil
 
purplepicker said:
...

I still haven't figured out how to change the exciter belt without pulling both pulleys with the old belt still on (or just cutting it off) and then re-mounting the pullleys with the new belt in place.
Click to expand...
I haven't had to deal with this myself and I don't know of any other way to do it. It looks like you use shims between the exciter and the case of the MG to adjust the belt tension on this model, if needed. Let me know how it comes out.

Cal
 
Thanks to all for helping me through the birth pangs of my new old 10ee.

I guess it's time to close out this thread since the initial question was how to best power it.

In summation I ordered the WNY 7.5 hp RPC prewired panel which came quickly and in fine condition. I bought the panel through the Ebay store because the cost after shipping (ebay store free shipping) was a little less.
I purchased locally a 7.5 hp dual voltage motor wired 240. had to help wrestle it out of a pile of motors in a barn but it was worth it.
I had already run a #10 30 amp circuit in conduit for a welding outlet to a location near where the lathe was to live so the wiring was trivial. I mounted the panel on the wall and dropped #10 SO cable to the idler and to the lathe with enough slack to allow me to move the lathe away from the wall to access the rear panel.

I pushed the start button on the RPC, spinning up the slave then pushed the "MG start" button on the lathe, turned the speed control all the way ccw, moved the "Go lever" to forward, cranked up the speed and watched it go!!!!
I chucked up a chunk of 12L14 and made some swarf....... WOW, that's nice!!!

I bought 3 heavy equipment skates from Northern Tool to leave under the lathe so that I can back out the leveling bolts dropping the machine onto the skates for sliding out from the wall then turn the leveling bolts back down to the floor when using the lathe.
So far, the equipment skates have been my largest expense.
The panel was $160, the motor $40, the cable and conduit fittings about $25, three new belts about $50 and equipment skates about $175. The lathe was a gift so my wife says so far my "free lathe" is up to about $500.... That's almost as much as a brand new 7 X 10 with some tooling.

Thanks again especially to Bill and Cal for all your help. I will be starting a new thread with questions on the Electrical controls unless I find the answers in the archives.
Cecil
 
Cecil, I know the feeling you had when you first powered your 10EE and it worked! I get that same feeling everytime I lug a new toy home and power it for the first time. Having 3 phase power in your shop opens up a whole new world of (often) inexpensive north american industrial equipment to search for and add to your shop. As you know, 3 phase motors (and DC motors) are soooo much better than their sigle phase cousins. Its no wonder hobbyists in droves are migrating to them now. You're gonna really enjoy your new 10EE ... the more I use mine, the more I love it too. I have 2 old Southbends that have barely been started up since my 10EE arrived and I'm thinking I should pass these along to someone who doesn't have a lathe since I will rarely ever use them again. Then I'll have some floorspace for yet another toy to drag home :)

Cheers, Bill
 
Here it is ..... up and running. There is a tendency for the MG contactor to fail to seal in occasionally. I am going to try cleaning the seal in contacts and possibly switching the phase that holds the contactor. It runs just fine otherwise... Note the tee shirt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ftcO9Sn_ZY

Thanks to all again for the help.

Cecil
 
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