How Good Are the Chinese Mills?

[Zigeuner]

one of these days i`d like to get a used 3/4 size knee mill but the prices on new have really shot up- heck the one i have seems to sell for around $2000 now. i would not pay that much for one. at that price i would find a BP style.
don`t completely rule out a horizontal- i don`t know about your area but they pop up for decent prices sometimes.
a lot of guys seem to really like the grizzly/shop fox 6x21 bench mills- they are a nice size for a small shop and weigh around 450 lbs.
like Zig said the bench mills are great drill presses if you decide to eventually move up.
another thing is the inexpensive imports(note i did not say cheap!) won`t be around much longer i`m afraid, the price on the HF 8X14 lathe has gone from $450 to $1000 in a little over a year. it was a great little lathe for $450 but not for $1000

Yeah, from the standpoint of utility, I'm sorry I sold the old Enco. It was very useful for drilling and boring as well as long as you didn't have too many setups. It would have fit nicely on a bench, too, even though I had the metal base for it. Shoulda, Woulda Coulda, etc. , you know "seller's remorse". I don't sell anything anymore now.

As to 3/4 Knee mills, those are truly few and far between. I've never even seen one in the flesh in Sacramento. I would have liked a smaller mill since the Webb is really huge and it weighs in at 3,500 pounds. But I had to jump when heard about it and I'll just have to deal with it. Fortunately I have a 24 X 36 foot barn in which to play. LOL.

Mr. Enco, ca. 1998.

 

[Highpower]

one of these days i`d like to get a used 3/4 size knee mill but the prices on new have really shot up- heck the one i have seems to sell for around $2000 now. i would not pay that much for one. at that price i would find a BP style.
-----<snip>-----
another thing is the inexpensive imports(note i did not say cheap!) won`t be around much longer i`m afraid, the price on the HF 8X14 lathe has gone from $450 to $1000 in a little over a year. it was a great little lathe for $450 but not for $1000

I know what you mean. I bought my Enco mill three years ago, (brand new) paid $2480, and got free freight. Today the very same mill sells for $4700 plus freight! :wowed:
Has interest in these machines really grown that much in the last couple of years or what?
All I know is I am mighty glad I got my foot in the door when I did!

 

[cyrusb]

I don't know if the interest in machines has gone up, but the dollar has sure gone down.

 

[kike]

Hello everybody !! : I have two years ago this popular in Europe chinese machine (mill-drill ) and I satisfied,it is enough by quality-price I paid new condition 1200 Euro,for this price I know can not ask for more.
sorry my english
regardas Enrique

 

[george wilson]

I haven't had the (dubious) pleasure of using a mainland Chinese mill. I did buy a Valumaster 42" table Bridgeport clone for my shop at my former job. I sent it back. When I moved a dial indicator ACROSS the table,it showed that the table was something like 2 3/4 thousanths higher at the front edge than at the rear. Some bias is expected,but that was just way too much. A bunch of trouble getting the heavy thing back onto the pallet,and wrapping it up with plastic wrapping(the same way it was received).

I have had 2 Asian mills,but both are Taiwan made. I encourage all to pay the extra money and get one of Taiwan origin. My first was a round column,which I used for a few years. It did o.k.,but was not possible to keep trammed in due to the column bending some as the head was raised or lowered. The one I have now,I got in 1986. A Bridgy clone. It has been so satisfactory,I haven't bothered to replace it with a real Bridgy. I had its brother at work,too,where it was used much harder. Never had an issue with it,and the table is dead parallel with the cross travel.

When I sent the Valumaster back to MSC,they made me a deal on a more expensive and larger Taiwan made mill. I had bought a lot of other machines and tooling from them.

 

[brucer]

i agree with george... seems like alot of the taiwanese mills are of better quality than straight up made in china machines..

 

[george wilson]

I bought 2 Bridgy WMC mills from Wilke Machinery Co. in York,Pa. One for work,and 1 for my home shop, They no longer sell machinery,though. Don't know why. There was a German guy in Newport News selling exactly the same mill,but with the name "Newport" stuck ion the ram. He was asking $6000.00 for them in 1986. Mine cost about $3500.00 at the time.

This con man told me that they took the machines apart and reworked them. His head "engineer",an English guy took me aside and told me that they did NOTHING to those machines. They were left in their crates and sold.

Both the mills I bought are step pulley mills. I haven't found a variable speed import that runs as smooth as I'd like. Wish it was a 3 phase machine,and I'd put a VFD on it. At the time I bought it,the VFD's weren't as known as now,and they have come down in cost a lot over the years. So,I bought both mills as 1 phase.

 

[Zigeuner]

I bought 2 Bridgy WMC mills from Wilke Machinery Co. in York,Pa. One for work,and 1 for my home shop, They no longer sell machinery,though. Don't know why. There was a German guy in Newport News selling exactly the same mill,but with the name "Newport" stuck ion the ram. He was asking $6000.00 for them in 1986. Mine cost about $3500.00 at the time.

This con man told me that they took the machines apart and reworked them. His head "engineer",an English guy took me aside and told me that they did NOTHING to those machines. They were left in their crates and sold.

Both the mills I bought are step pulley mills. I haven't found a variable speed import that runs as smooth as I'd like. Wish it was a 3 phase machine,and I'd put a VFD on it. At the time I bought it,the VFD's weren't as known as now,and they have come down in cost a lot over the years. So,I bought both mills as 1 phase.

I agree that the step pulley machines are generally very quiet, at least the ones I've used. That said, the variable machines can be made to run smoothly. When I got my Webb Champ, it was noisy in high range at speed (It has a range from 60 to 4,000 rpm). I also discovered that the downfeed was not working. I disassembled the head and replaced a broken gear and its mate as well as all of the sheave bushings and both belts, the main and the timing belt. It's very smooth and quiet now. It was built in Taiwan in 1987. I was lucky to find it.

The Webb has a 3 hp 3 ph motor. I run my machine it using a 5 hp RPC that I built. If it had been a step pulley machine, I would probably have used a VFD, although I like the simplicity of an RPC.

I also agree that there are a few con men running around when it comes to used machinery. I met a few of them in the past ten years. Fortunately there are some straight shooters too.

Mr Webb.



The broken gear. I replaced the mate even though it was unbroken since this one had several missing teeth so I wasn't going to take a chance. Replacing parts in a Bridgeport style down feed is akin to brain surgery. It's not for the faint of heart. LOL.



The infamous worm cradle with its new gears. It took me a half a day to get to this point. LOL.

 

[Zigeuner]

Not being familiar with these type mills, which ones are Taiwanese? What names should I be looking for? I take it those with a cylidrical column should be avoided. So the question coming from my ignorance is this. Is there a square or rectangular column?

Hi, you posted this while I was writing. Sure, there are square column mills that are small and compact. Grizzly sells some of them and they can be very good, although if you buy new, you will pay as much as a used Bridgport or clone.

There are a few larger machines that are made in Taiwan and elsewhere. Lagun is, I think made in Spain and they are very good. The larger (10X50) Grizzlys' are (I think) made in Taiwan and are nearly identical to my Webb which as I mentioned is from Taiwan. If you look closely at Grizzly's pictures on their larger mills, you will see that there is a large "M" cast into the base behind the table. I was told by the Webb rep that this stands for Meehanite process, which is a licensed process for making high grade cast iron.

Harley Davidson, AJS, Matchless, BSA and Triumph all used Meehanite in their flywheels for many years.

As a general rule the smaller the machine series, the more likely that it was built in R.O.C. This is not bad in my opinion. You have to take in on a case by case basis and search out reviews and comments.

The problem with the new Webbs or similar Grizzlys, laguns, Acers, and the like is that they are in the $10,000 range for new. I looked for ten years for a decent Bridgeport and finally found the machine I have for $1,500. It was a CNC machine and the computer was gone. I modified it back to a manual machine and that cost another $1,000 for parts from Webb doing all of the labor myself. Fortunately I was able to do this.

The nice part is that I got a machine with ball screws. Some say this is bad on a manual but all you have to remember to do is to lock the table each time you make a cut. On the god side, there is zero lash on the Y and about .005 on the X so I can't complain.

I would keep looking for a Bridgeport or equivalent were I you. They make a great hobby machine for sure and they are not all that hard to fix. Parts, data and support are all readily available, too,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meehanite

 

[george wilson]

ANY,repeat,ANY machine made in Taiwan is advertised as such,especially by Grizzly. Read their ad for the machine in question. Usually says MADE IN TAIWAN in bold letters. They cost more,too. The most expensive lathes that Grizzly sells are also made in Taiwan.

If I recall correctly,these Taiwan made machines are usually among the larger machines,though I am sure that all sizes are made there. Seems like Grizzly only sells their larger sizes.

I was lucky to get mine before Taiwan became premium priced. My 16" x 40" Grizzly lathe was a very cheap machine,at about $3000.00,and it was Taiwan at the time. These days,you won't get Taiwan at a low price.

There is no doubt among those who know,that Taiwan made machines are much better than Chinese. Taiwan has been at it a lot longer. Eventually,when China gets its' act together better,their machines will be premium,and some cheaper country will move into the bottom rung. Japan used to be there. Now,their stuff is VERY expensive.