Hoisting a mill

[Ray C]

With 2x10's, I'm breathing a sigh of relief! You need to go sideways through them or they'll pull right out and I'd consider using thru-bolts instead of worrying about wood bolts pulling out. Here is something I would consider (see the PDF). Use a piece of rectangular bar 1/2 x 3" x 16" (center distance) or at least schedule 80 pipe, 2 to 2.5" Dia. welded between two plates with 4 holes drilled per plate. I would also put backing plates on the other sides of the bar plates or at least double-up on large diameter washers.

Again, possibly overkill but, I take no chances when it comes to stuff like this.

Can you weld or get someone to do it for you?

View attachment Support Bar.pdf


EDIT: Don't pay attention to the dimensions that showed-up in the PDF. That was a quick sketch to relay a concept -not precise plans.

Joists are 2X10 resting on top of header (bearing wall is a 2x6 wall) I know overkill is good but I think two joists are adequate over a span of what will be more like 5' instead of 6'. I am still a little unsure of exactly how to make the connection to the two joist with the chain hoist, though. Would lag screws be better screwed several inches into the bottom of the joists (i.e. screws 2 or 3" long, but the force is in the pull out direction) or through the side of the joists (on'y 1.5" long but the force is shear)? Maybe I should put a 2X10 in between the two joists and screw longer lag screws (in the shear direction) through the joist into this "spanner" 2X10.

By the way, the reason I mention two vs. three joists is what someone else pointed out above, that it is difficult to avoid most of the load going to the center one when you try to do this.

 

[Ray C]

BTW: If I were making that for my own purposes, I would make the square plates about 7" square with 3/8 holes drilled 3/4" from the corner of the plate. The plates would be centered in the joist. Also, that is a "critical weld" and must be done properly.

If you use bar stock instead of pipe, don't lay it flat-wise. Lay it tall-wise.

Ray

With 2x10's, I'm breathing a sigh of relief! You need to go sideways through them or they'll pull right out and I'd consider using thru-bolts instead of worrying about wood bolts pulling out. Here is something I would consider (see the PDF). Use a piece of rectangular bar 1/2 x 3" x 16" (center distance) or at least schedule 80 pipe, 2 to 2.5" Dia. welded between two plates with 4 holes drilled per plate. I would also put backing plates on the other sides of the bar plates or at least double-up on large diameter washers.

Again, possibly overkill but, I take no chances when it comes to stuff like this.

Can you weld or get someone to do it for you?

View attachment 46122


EDIT: Don't pay attention to the dimensions that showed-up in the PDF. That was a quick sketch to relay a concept -not precise plans.

 

[mjr6550]

Joists are 2X10 resting on top of header (bearing wall is a 2x6 wall) I know overkill is good but I think two joists are adequate over a span of what will be more like 5' instead of 6'. I am still a little unsure of exactly how to make the connection to the two joist with the chain hoist, though. Would lag screws be better screwed several inches into the bottom of the joists (i.e. screws 2 or 3" long, but the force is in the pull out direction) or through the side of the joists (on'y 1.5" long but the force is shear)? Maybe I should put a 2X10 in between the two joists and screw longer lag screws (in the shear direction) through the joist into this "spanner" 2X10.

By the way, the reason I mention two vs. three joists is what someone else pointed out above, that it is difficult to avoid most of the load going to the center one when you try to do this.

A diagram would be helpful for me. Trying to get the strength you need with bolts is not too easy. If you are using a lag bolt screwed into the bottom of the joist a 5/16 inch bolt would be good for about 210 pounds per inch of embedded depth. In shear through the side of a joist (assuming you are hanging a 1/4" steel plate off of a lag bolt) a 3/8" lag bolt would give you 100 pounds. These sizes are about the largest you could use and still maintain the required edge distance or minimum thread length. If you used a 1/2" bolt through the joist with a 1/4" steel plate then you would be at 280 pounds (or 380 pounds with a plate on both sides). For short term loads and if you are willing to live with some wood fiber crushing you could go quite a bit higher than these numbers. These numbers are from the National Design Standard for Wood Construction. That is the recognized standard for fasteners in wood.

 

[Michaeljp86]

Maybe you could do something like this. If you look on the underside of the floor joists there is a I beam. You can get the floor jacks from lowes, these were the heavy duty and they were rated at 40,000lbs each. The smaller ones are a lot cheaper.

 

[pdentrem]

At the shop we have moved the BP several times over the years, as well as the Wire EDMs and lathe etc. We simply use a pallet jack/truck and with a pry bar and hard wood blocks to raise and lower the machine high enough to slip the pallet truck under and that is with just two guys. The leveling bolts/feet can be used to lift part way.

Since yours is already on a pallet, move it into position and use thin blocks where you can to unload the pallet, cut it out and lower the mill.
Pierre

 

[Ray C]

And this method works too and is how I did much of my lifting. J-bars, rollers, pallets etc. It helps to have 3 sons and good friend that used to be a Chief Engineer on ocean-going transport vessels. -His idea of heavy things make my shop equipment look like paper weights. Anyhow, there were times I had to work alone which is why I built the gantry in the overhead door (to get stuff off the truck) and an 8' roller gantry that disassembles. I never calculated it's working strength but suspect it's easily in the 2-3 ton range with the wheels removed.

That said, I seemed to recall (and just verified in the ASE toolbox) that 3/8" grade 2 bolts (typical stuff at the hardware store) have a working shear load of 800 pounds each. -That's if the bolt goes all the way through and has a plate on the other side. For mechanical fixtures, if a 3/8" bolt is simply threaded in a hole, shear strength is 400lbs. BTW: The nut torque is something like 25-30 ft.lbs. That being the case, four 5/16" thru bolts (full shear strength 500lbs each) would probably be better as you'll be drilling smaller holes through the joists.

Schedule 80 pipe... A 10 foot length supported at the ends can do 750lbs so, a 16" length should be many times that.

The compressive strength of an 8 foot 4x4 has a working load of something like 2000lbs (from memory but I think it's more than that).

The welds... those have to be done properly.

EDIT: BTW, shear loads are "sideways" loads -not "pulling on the bolt or clamping" loads. Those are much higher than shear loads but mainly depend on thread engagement.

At the shop we have moved the BP several times over the years, as well as the Wire EDMs and lathe etc. We simply use a pallet jack/truck and with a pry bar and hard wood blocks to raise and lower the machine high enough to slip the pallet truck under and that is with just two guys. The leveling bolts/feet can be used to lift part way.

Since yours is already on a pallet, move it into position and use thin blocks where you can to unload the pallet, cut it out and lower the mill.
Pierre

 

[tigtorch]

After thinking of all of the negative consequences of doing this wrong I have decided on another approach. I will try to find a scrap Steel I beam approx six feet long and 6"high X3 or 4" and mount it to the underside of the joists. One end will terminate at a poured concrete wall and I will affix a permanent 4x4 wood post under that end of the beam down to the basement slab. For light loads like the mill table, I will use the beam like this, assuming it is attached to the joists properly, with welded hangers and bolts, this should be sufficient for 200 lbs. or so. For the mill itself, I will temporarily put another post (at least a 4x4 or bigger, with stabilizing arms of some type) under the other end of this beam. I will then make a strong trolley for my chain hoist to move back and forth on this beam. I do know how to weld and I have the proper equipment for that.

I was at Harbor Freight this morning and they have an 8 foot gantry rated at 2000 lbs. It is more than I want to spend but the I beam (I measured it) is 5" X 3" and the vertical section of the "I" appears to be slightly less than a quarter of an inch thick. Since my beam will be shorter and will be supported some by the joists, it would seem a beam of this size would be sufficient for me.

 

[Michaeljp86]

After thinking of all of the negative consequences of doing this wrong I have decided on another approach. I will try to find a scrap Steel I beam approx six feet long and 6"high X3 or 4" and mount it to the underside of the joists. One end will terminate at a poured concrete wall and I will affix a permanent 4x4 wood post under that end of the beam down to the basement slab. For light loads like the mill table, I will use the beam like this, assuming it is attached to the joists properly, with welded hangers and bolts, this should be sufficient for 200 lbs. or so. For the mill itself, I will temporarily put another post (at least a 4x4 or bigger, with stabilizing arms of some type) under the other end of this beam. I will then make a strong trolley for my chain hoist to move back and forth on this beam. I do know how to weld and I have the proper equipment for that.

I was at Harbor Freight this morning and they have an 8 foot gantry rated at 2000 lbs. It is more than I want to spend but the I beam (I measured it) is 5" X 3" and the vertical section of the "I" appears to be slightly less than a quarter of an inch thick. Since my beam will be shorter and will be supported some by the joists, it would seem a beam of this size would be sufficient for me.

Some scrap yard spick out good stuff like I beams and resell them

 

[jmarkwolf]

I just purchased a 1979 Burke Powermatic Millrite mill which I am cleaning and reassembling in my basement.

Out of curiosity, is this the one that was on Craiglist in southern Indiana?

If so, congratulations on the "snag".

I was about to hook up the trailer and drive down from southeast Michigan when they informed me it was sold.

Any way you post some pics?

 

[ML_Woy]

Might want to consider building a dolly and moving the mill from the pallet to the dolly. Build the dolly with jack screws under it so when you roll the mill to where you want it you then screw down the jack screws to put in place. Then in the future if you have to move it is simple. Now would be the time to do it. I built one for my 2,800 # mill and have been very pleased.

Just a thught:thinking: