Help indentifying cause of error

[numidan]

Some of you will find this weird but an important part of numismatic research is understanding how an error was produced. In many cases, having a general understanding of the minting process, we can come up with an explanation. But for this case, all experts are clueless. I call upon your machining expertise, could you please have a look at the pictures and give me your theory of what could be the cause?

What I am puzzled about are the parallel lines from the back of beaver towards the log/tail junction as shown in red outline. What it normally looks like is on the right.


A cut and paste of cyan marker was used to show that the lines and angles are too perfect and had to be done through machining!


Thank you.

 

[Martin W]

Not sure, but the nickel may be worth more than 5 cents. Lol
Cheers
Martin

 

[markba633csi]

Perhaps a test run which was not supposed to be circulated? Defective die or foreign matter? WAG
-Mark

 

[francist]

I’m not quite sure that I understand the question completely, but if the suspicion is that the parallel lines were caused by machining I’m not seeing any lead in or lead out as one might expect if an end mill was used. So, would we expect those lines then to be made first on an oversized dutchman which was then let into the recessed parent metal?

How a die would get broken or a chip broken out like that in the first place I have no idea though. I think this might be the first specifically numismatically related question we’ve ever had on the site. Interesting.

-frank

 

[Superburban]

I do not see very much matching between the two images. I suspect the dies were made from two completely different masters.

 

[Hawkeye]

If you look at the tail, the lines are completely different between the two coins. Also, the striations on the background of the questionable coin are not up to the standard of a circulated coin (yours, in the picture, and the one in my pocket).

 

[Moderatemixed]

I would argue that the coin on the left is counterfeit. The real question is, what “moron” takes the time to counterfeit a nickel? And a Canadian one at that! Can you imagine walking into the bank with $1M in nickels....... “Yes ma’am, I’m here to make a deposit... my piggy bank got too full.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tozguy]

We would need to see photos of the area in question under higher magnification. This to compare surface finish in the 'strange' lines to normal minted surfaces.

How on earth did you find the strange nickel? Are there more than one?
Could it be a prototype from the art department at the mint?
If the coin was in circulation could it be someone who used it for setting up an engraving machine?

 

[numidan]

Not sure, but the nickel may be worth more than 5 cents. Lol
Cheers
Martin

Sometimes it will be worth more than 5 cents but definitely worth a lot more in knowledge!

Perhaps a test run which was not supposed to be circulated? Defective die or foreign matter? WAG
-Mark

Our theory is a die repair was done to cover up a die chip but we can not figure out the machining process to do this

I’m not quite sure that I understand the question completely, but if the suspicion is that the parallel lines were caused by machining I’m not seeing any lead in or lead out as one might expect if an end mill was used. So, would we expect those lines then to be made first on an oversized dutchman which was then let into the recessed parent metal?



How a die would get broken or a chip broken out like that in the first place I have no idea though. I think this might be the first specifically numismatically related question we’ve ever had on the site. Interesting.

-frank

I am happy to see that we are not the only ones puzzled. Numismatics research requires many experts in various fields and sad to say that there are very few machinists that fully understands the minting process participating in our forums . That is why I registered on your forum to ask for your help. Hope you are all okay with that!

I do not see very much matching between the two images. I suspect the dies were made from two completely different masters.

It is a possibility. I am in the process of trying to confirm or reject that hypothesis but many refuted that allegation since very few coins with that error were found in circulation since the master punch would have produced many dies with the same error.

I would argue that the coin on the left is counterfeit. The real question is, what “moron” takes the time to counterfeit a nickel? And a Canadian one at that! Can you imagine walking into the bank with $1M in nickels....... “Yes ma’am, I’m here to make a deposit... my piggy bank got too full.”

Lol. The last counterfeit on modern coins I am aware about in Canada is the 2 Dollars (Toonie) and your story is not far from reality! Do a Web Search on headline "Coin con man bilked banks out of $30K with fake toonies"

Thank you all but the mystery persists.

 

[numidan]

We would need to see photos of the area in question under higher magnification. This to compare surface finish in the 'strange' lines to normal minted surfaces.

How on earth did you find the strange nickel? Are there more than one?
Could it be a prototype from the art department at the mint?
If the coin was in circulation could it be someone who used it for setting up an engraving machine?

For the photos under higher magnification, I will need to find a better microscope. If I do, I will post them!

There are many members that have found them in circulation but they are hard to find.

It is not possible that was used on an engraving machine because the parallel lines you see is filling up the recessed junction of Back/Tail/Log.