Has anyone made an electro magnetic chuck from the guts of a microwave?

I may have had my windings backwards. since that is a step up transformer is the primary winding the winding with fewer turns and larger wire? The secondary winding is the finer wire? I suppose in theory transformers are reversible so it's really just a matter of semantics?
R
 
I may have had my windings backwards. since that is a step up transformer is the primary winding the winding with fewer turns and larger wire? The secondary winding is the finer wire? I suppose in theory transformers are reversible so it's really just a matter of semantics?
R

Yes, the primary is the larger wire.

As for reversing the transformer, in theory your can, in practice you CAN NOT (has to do with the design).
 
Use the larger wire. The smaller wire is for higher voltage. I imagine using the smaller wire, you can use home's electric without adapter. However, the danger is electric shock if there is a break in wiring. So stay safe, go for the larger wire and lower voltage.
 
You never want to pick up an automotive condenser (points and condenser) when sitting on the break room table. YEEOOWW!!
They bite.
Years ago (mid 70's) as a newbie motorcycle mechanic I learned very quickly to not catch a condenser that was tossed to me.
 
I might make one as I have several old microwave ovens just waiting for something. One could use
a battery charger to power it or even a switching mode power supply from a TV set. It looks like a little
experimenting is in order. There may be a down side in that the materials held down could easily end
up magnetized.
 
brino,
I missed this,
This simple wiring would be hooked up to a DC power supply?
What would I look to purchase that would support this application?

Sorry Jeff I somehow missed this question from 2020!
I only found it in re-reading this thread today, because I linked to it from another post.

To answer your question, any 12V power supply that can provide around 10A of current should work.
User @nnam posted some frame-grabs of the one used in the video in this post:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...rom-the-guts-of-a-microwave.85743/post-764074
That one looks like a switching power supply.
There are many equivalent ones on amazon in the $10-$20 range.

I think what's confusing you is this:

Transformers only do their "normal job" of converting one voltage to another voltage when used with alternating current (AC).
They can either be:
step-down transformers where the output voltage is lower than the input voltage, or
step-up transformers where the output voltage is higher than the input voltage.
But again, they can only do this with AC.

Here we are using the step-up transformer from an old microwave oven.
In their normal use in the microwave oven they convert the 120VAC into a very high voltage needed by the magnetron.
Something like 1800-2500VAC.
That voltage gets half-wave rectified (one high-voltage diode) and then "smoothed" by a capacitor.
It is this capacitor that can have the high-voltage stored in it for many hours after operation.

okay....back to how we use it.......
However here we completely remove the high-voltage secondary winding.
This leaves us with a nice coil of wire around a laminated steel core.
It is no longer a transformer so we don't need to use AC.
We re-use this coil and core as an electromagnet with direct current.

Brian

For much more info look here:
http://repairfaq.org/sam/micfaq.htm#micsaf
 
I find transformers fascinating..... the fact that we can convert electrical energy to magnetic energy and then back to electrical energy in itself is amazing. And then, the fact that in such a small volume we can reduce the voltage but increase the current; or conversely decrease the voltage and increase the current it's almost mind-blowing..........so forgive me if I'm a little excited!

It seems like it should take quantum physics and or some kind of black magic to understand or build one..... but it does NOT!
(at least at a level "good enough" to rewind existing transformers and even make your own.)

Thanks to my Dad, an electronics technologist and forever science-minded learner, for giving me a love of the same.
When I was in public school we would set aside time for him to teach me; ohm's law, capacitors, inductors, basic transistors, etc.
He also let me use his basement shop to build projects, rewind transformers, re-charge magnets, build a Jacob's ladder from a furnace transformer, try electroplating, etc. Luckily my Mom did not see all of it, or some of it would have been shut-down.

I may have had my windings backwards. since that is a step up transformer is the primary winding the winding with fewer turns and larger wire? The secondary winding is the finer wire? I suppose in theory transformers are reversible so it's really just a matter of semantics?

With any transformer just remember that there is a certain number of volts per turn of wire.
The winding with the more turns has more volts, whether it is the input or the output.
(The winding with the larger diameter wire has more current.)

So in the case of a step-up transformer (that by definition has fewer volts on the input (primary) than the output (secondary)) there must be fewer turns on the primary winding than the secondary winding.
Just be aware that the volume of the windings is not enough to judge; the two windings can me made of very different gauge of wire. So the coil with fewer windings may actually look bigger!

As for reversing the transformer, in theory your can, in practice you CAN NOT (has to do with the design).

Sure you can reverse it.
If you have a 120VAC to 12VAC step-down transformer, it is fine to "use it backwards".
You can supply 12VAC to the coil with fewer turns (was secondary, now primary) and generate 120VAC on the coil with more turns (was primary, now secondary).

But just understand a couple things:

Each winding was designed for a specific voltage and current. (affecting the number of turns and the wire gauge.)
You cannot take that same transformer and supply 120VAC on the coil with fewer turns and hope to get 1200VAC on the other side.
Even though it normally has a 10:1 when used "forwards" and 1:10 when used "backwards" there are limits! (to both directions).
In this case the limit is the current thru the coil based on the impedance of the coil.
Don't be scared off.... impedance is just the "AC resistance" of the coil. It is much like the DC resistance, and can be used in ohms law the same way as DC resistance, however the impedance depends on the frequency of the AC voltage.

In this example, if you have not changed the impedance (by changing either the coil inductance or the AC frequency) then by increasing the voltage from 12VAC to 120VAC you have increased the voltage by 10 times.

We know that Ohms law says: I = V/R
but for AC circuits with a coil(inductor) we replace R (resistance) by ZL (inductive impedance), and so get: I = V/ZL
If we increase V by ten times and leave ZL the same, then the current (I) has also increased by ten times.

Remember I said that each coil was designed for a specific voltage and current?
Well a ten times increase in them would very likely violate what that coil was designed for and burn up the winding (unless there was a very carefully sized fuse in the system).

Also, there is no free-lunch....and in fact there are taxes for playing......
All transformers have losses, there is DC resistance in the windings, stray magnetic fields that do not get coupled into the sceondary, there are Eddy current losses in the core (decreased by the laminations of the transformer core material), etc. So even the best transformer cannot supply 100% of the input power to the output.

I had better quit now, before I start with more equations and put people to sleep.....

Brian
 
I find transformers fascinating..... the fact that we can convert electrical energy to magnetic energy and then back to electrical energy in itself is amazing. And then, the fact that in such a small volume we can reduce the voltage but increase the current; or conversely decrease the voltage and increase the current it's almost mind-blowing..........so forgive me if I'm a little excited!

It seems like it should take quantum physics and or some kind of black magic to understand or build one..... but it does NOT!
(at least at a level "good enough" to rewind existing transformers and even make your own.)

Thanks to my Dad, an electronics technologist and forever science-minded learner, for giving me a love of the same.
When I was in public school we would set aside time for him to teach me; ohm's law, capacitors, inductors, basic transistors, etc.
He also let me use his basement shop to build projects, rewind transformers, re-charge magnets, build a Jacob's ladder from a furnace transformer, try electroplating, etc. Luckily my Mom did not see all of it, or some of it would have been shut-down.



With any transformer just remember that there is a certain number of volts per turn of wire.
The winding with the more turns has more volts, whether it is the input or the output.
(The winding with the larger diameter wire has more current.)

So in the case of a step-up transformer (that by definition has fewer volts on the input (primary) than the output (secondary)) there must be fewer turns on the primary winding than the secondary winding.
Just be aware that the volume of the windings is not enough to judge; the two windings can me made of very different gauge of wire. So the coil with fewer windings may actually look bigger!



Sure you can reverse it.
If you have a 120VAC to 12VAC step-down transformer, it is fine to "use it backwards".
You can supply 12VAC to the coil with fewer turns (was secondary, now primary) and generate 120VAC on the coil with more turns (was primary, now secondary).

But just understand a couple things:

Each winding was designed for a specific voltage and current. (affecting the number of turns and the wire gauge.)
You cannot take that same transformer and supply 120VAC on the coil with fewer turns and hope to get 1200VAC on the other side.
Even though it normally has a 10:1 when used "forwards" and 1:10 when used "backwards" there are limits! (to both directions).
In this case the limit is the current thru the coil based on the impedance of the coil.
Don't be scared off.... impedance is just the "AC resistance" of the coil. It is much like the DC resistance, and can be used in ohms law the same way as DC resistance, however the impedance depends on the frequency of the AC voltage.

In this example, if you have not changed the impedance (by changing either the coil inductance or the AC frequency) then by increasing the voltage from 12VAC to 120VAC you have increased the voltage by 10 times.

We know that Ohms law says: I = V/R
but for AC circuits with a coil(inductor) we replace R (resistance) by ZL (inductive impedance), and so get: I = V/ZL
If we increase V by ten times and leave ZL the same, then the current (I) has also increased by ten times.

Remember I said that each coil was designed for a specific voltage and current?
Well a ten times increase in them would very likely violate what that coil was designed for and burn up the winding (unless there was a very carefully sized fuse in the system).

Also, there is no free-lunch....and in fact there are taxes for playing......
All transformers have losses, there is DC resistance in the windings, stray magnetic fields that do not get coupled into the sceondary, there are Eddy current losses in the core (decreased by the laminations of the transformer core material), etc. So even the best transformer cannot supply 100% of the input power to the output.

I had better quit now, before I start with more equations and put people to sleep.....

Brian
Thank you professor.
You sure do explain this subject well!
I had to go back to see what the subject matter was.
This diy magnetic chuck just moved up on my to do list :)
 
Suggestions for build.

For power connectio use a barrier strip or screw terminal strip with feed through posts or use good solid wire.

Mount strip to side of unit and wire up before potting.

Use solid wire larger than needed and crimp then solder.

After confirmed good ready to fill.

Before filling you need to have top flat.

Get a flat chunk of steel and with wax paper between steel and magnets oe places steel across top and apply power.

Magnets attach to steel, fill with potting compound and after fully cured one can skim cut with mill or sand paper on a glass plate.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 
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