[CNC] Has anyone any experience with 5 phase steppers?

I found out even more about the Vexta motor. Looks like the 5-phase, "delta" wound stepper is their bailywick. They have their own driver chipset and proprietary drivers...

I tend to think Gecko is just gonna say "Huh?"

Do you have an application for these? CNC usage? I bet Vexta can get you the motor's specs if you call them. If you can't get the datasheet, now that I know what's inside the motor, I can show you how to find out with a power supply (maybe a car battery?), a multimeter and an in-lbs torque wrench (beam type, if possible). If you have an oscilloscope and a cordless drill, we can really get some good info about this motor by backdriving it and looking at the back EMF (generator voltage)!

I also have some ideas on how you can identify the leads to find out which is phase A,B,C,D and E so you can wire it right to whatever controller you can get.

If you run out of luck finding an affordable driver for these, and really want to use them, let me know (I have a thought or two).

John
 
xalky said:
See if you can get in touch with the people at gecko. The make very reliable and fairly inexpensive( for what they are), controllers. CNCzone.com has a huge knowledge base for these types of things, and i think gecko drives has thier own sub-forum which gets answered regularly by the gecko techs.
Click to expand...

I checked the Gecko forum and note that in 2010 they said they didn't have a product for 5 phase steppers, and weren't planning one unless the market changed. That doesn't seem likely as it doesn't appear that many people have 5 phase steppers, although a few of these have hit ebay and used parts sites. They seem quite expensive as a new product, and the high resolution steps aren't necessary for most people, so they probably aren't going to have more than a niche interest. It just happens I'm in that niche....

CNC forum has a long discussion about 5 phase steppers, which kept me up late last night. I need to read more and see if the driver built by a member there is functional, and if parts are available.

This project was a back burner interest, that would not have happened if an interesting sequence of events hadn't occurred;
  • I went on vacation and couldn't access a little used website as I didn't have the password with me
  • I came home and installed LastPass so I could remotely get my passwords
  • I perused the old password file and attempted to log on to hobbymachinist, ended up here, applied and was accepted and encouraged to post, and decided to see if anyone had insight into these steppers
  • And I was truly amazed at the warm and friendly response from all of you - notably, no one has suggested I just throw them away and spend money on their pet solution! You guys are AWESOME!


Thanks so much,
Rex:thumbsup:
 
jgedde said:
I found out even more about the Vexta motor. Looks like the 5-phase, "delta" wound stepper is their bailywick. They have their own driver chipset and proprietary drivers...

I tend to think Gecko is just gonna say "Huh?"

Do you have an application for these? CNC usage? I bet Vexta can get you the motor's specs if you call them. If you can't get the datasheet, now that I know what's inside the motor, I can show you how to find out with a power supply (maybe a car battery?), a multimeter and an in-lbs torque wrench (beam type, if possible). If you have an oscilloscope and a cordless drill, we can really get some good info about this motor by backdriving it and looking at the back EMF (generator voltage)!

I also have some ideas on how you can identify the leads to find out which is phase A,B,C,D and E so you can wire it right to whatever controller you can get.

If you run out of luck finding an affordable driver for these, and really want to use them, let me know (I have a thought or two).

John
Click to expand...

John, it does look like Oriental motors has dedicated themselves to the 5 phase stepper. The major sales pitch is less vibration and higher resolution, which is of nominal value to me.

I have 5 steppers from the garage sale. One is small and of little use to me, it's like others I've collected from old machines. The other three were in boxes labeled like the one I have been discussing and I assumed they were the same. BUT, I just went down to the basement to see if there was any info with them. To my great surprise, two other motors are PH-299 E4.0 which are 4 amp 2 phase steppers, the remaining stepper is also 2 phase, but smaller.

Now I have a quandary! I'd love to make the 5 phase motor work, but it's an orphan, and I have 3 steppers that are "normal". OTOH, the small step angle of the 5 phase unit really appeals to me for a rotary table, such as Steve Ward designed on CNC zone - although I first saw that unit as Malcolm Parker-Lisbergs version mentioned in a yahoo mini-mill forum.

I do want to add John Dammeyer's E-leadScrew to my 12" craftsman lathe, but that only uses 2 steppers. I also have a drill mill that occasionally entices me with whispers of secret cnc codes (hey, Halloween is coming, I'm trying to get in the mood).

I see a 5 phase driver on ebay for $29, but it's a .75 amp "seller refurbished" item. I wonder if I could have the output feed ?mosfets? ?some circuit? to get a higher current? Not sure enough of the output waveform/signal/electronics to assume anything about that! Or, I can buy a used driver for $199 and up... not really in my budget.

I found a paper insert in English that shows the wiring for PK PX type, 5 phase motors. The color code matches the winding pairs I have even though it's a PH type motor. If the phases correspond, then the connections are;
A - blue > red
B - white > yellow
C - brown > purple
D - black > gray
E - orange > green in order around the motor​
Unfortunately, there aren't any power/torque/electrical specs with the insert.

I have a spare car battery, 2 amp power supply, multimeters, maybe access to an inch pounds torque wrench (or a lever arm and weights?), a friends o-scope, multiple cordless drills and 4 friends that will enjoy helping me play with this toy! I'm ready (or as another friend would say, "let's get you over to the deep end of the pool"). It would be great fun to experiment with it if you have the inclination to enlighten me?

As I posted in another reply, I found late last night that a member on CNC forum (another place I haven't been in a while) was building and testing a 5 phase driver last year. I need to find the rest of his posts and see if he was successful, and if the parts are still available, and if a board design exists, and if it requires a programmed pic, and if, if, if.. So, if you want to share your ideas, I'd love to hear them. If nothing else, you're stimulating an old mans brain, which can only help me live longer! LOL

Thanks very much,
Rex
 
Erx said:
SNIP
I found a paper insert in English that shows the wiring for PK PX type, 5 phase motors. The color code matches the winding pairs I have even though it's a PH type motor. If the phases correspond, then the connections are;
A - blue > red
B - white > yellow
C - brown > purple
D - black > gray
E - orange > green in order around the motor​
Unfortunately, there aren't any power/torque/electrical specs with the insert.

SNIP
Thanks very much,
Rex
Click to expand...

Answering my own post, but here is a link to the same info contained in the insert I found, however this page implies that the wire color code is common for all 5 phase motors, the PH series included. English text is on the second page down.

http://www.orientalmotor.com/produc...cct=/oriental-motor&__utmv=-&__utmk=259869898

Looks like I'm still clueless about torque curves, etc, but maybe a call to Oriental Motors will help.

Rex
 
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