got a call today from the ATF

[upTheHill]

I just got approval from the city to manufacture weapons in my shop now on to the ATF. I am looking to get an 07 with an sot. Paper to be filed next week.

i applied in mid october, and it just got to the local atf office for my interview/site inspection.
she said the new town ct shooting has slowed everything down, so it might be 2-3 months before they contact you.

she asked if i wanted to change my application to an 07 manufacture license,
its cheaper to get a manufacturer license then a gunsmith license, but you add excise tax paperwork, and twice as many unannounced compliance checks. she said they do the larger manufacturers every 6 months, unless they find something wrong, then its more often. they would do a small shop at least once a year. a gunsmith with no problems would be about every 2-3 years. so i'm staying with the gunsmith license for now.

 

[Jonesturf]

What exactly does the gunsmith license allow you to do other than work on guns? Can you sell guns as well like a regular gun shop? Looking to do the same. Also what's the cost for the license?

 

[Ray C]

A licensed gunsmith cannot perform FFL transfers -if that's what you mean. The license only allows you to design, repair or modify (within legal limits) the receiver of a firearm. It also extends to some portions of the trigger mechanism -but that's a gray area. As a licensed gunsmith, you can purchase from a manufacturer, certain parts which are not normally available to the general public. Usually these are the trigger sears and some types of safety mechanisms. Screw that up and you've got either an unsafe or illegal gun -so they're only sold to GS's. Anyone with a screwdriver and a file can work on any other part of a firearm but not the receiver (the part with the serial number stamped into it). A GS with an FFL must log all entries in their FAD (Firearms Disposition) book and maintain records for 10 years -or that's what it used to be anyhow. There's nothing to prevent a GS from privately selling their own firearms but they must be entered in their FAD and any abuses of this will get you dinged.

Back in the 80's, a "retailer's" FFL and GS FFL were between $30 and $50 each as I recall and lasted 3 years.

EDIT: A GS FFL does not allow you to convert from semi to fully automatic. As soon as a gun becomes full-auto, you better have a class III license...

What exactly does the gunsmith license allow you to do other than work on guns? Can you sell guns as well like a regular gun shop? Looking to do the same. Also what's the cost for the license?

 

[Jonesturf]

Hope I'm not hijacking this thread. If I am let me know. I just find it cool that someone is going through the process. Upthehill-good luck to you in your new business!

So what proof do they need that you can do gunsmithing? I have been wanting to take some courses at Trinidad State or some other accredited school. Just wondering on what the ATF actually requires in the way of education.

 

[ranch23]

Not that way anymore, we can buy and sell, its the same license. They are $90 now, renewal, and good for 3 years.

 

[Ray C]

Not that way anymore, we can buy and sell, its the same license. They are $90 now, renewal, and good for 3 years.

Ouch, I really missed the target on that one. Sorry folks... I was a gunshop manager for a good long while in the 80's and early 90's and I cited the rules as I adhered to them back then. Again, sorry for the misinformation...


Ray

 

[ranch23]

Ray, it may change again here in the near future. And Jonesturf there are no requirements at all to be a gunsmith outside of an FFL. You would be amazed at the people who get an FFL and some business cards and bingo, I are a gunsmith! And what would REALLY amaze and scare you are some of the "fixed" guns that we repair. Everything from barrel jobs with so much headspace the case separates on the first firing to trigger jobs that won't stay cocked, barrels that come off of the gun because the threads were cut undersize, non functioning safeties, hammer marks, buggered up screws. It never ends.

 

[upTheHill]

as stated, a gunsmith can do everything a dealer can, plus work on guns, she suggested i have 2 bound books, one for sales, and one for repairs. this isnt required, but makes her job easier when she does the compliance check, and avoids questions like "why didn't you do a bavkround check on ths?"

the big difference now, is whats a gunsmith and whats a manufacturer. there is a very fine line in what is considered a manufacturer. we had a very lengthy dicussion on it, and basicallyif you change a gun configuration from the way it came from the factory, you just manufactured a new gun, so thread the barrel on a 10/22? you just manufactured a new gun and need an 07 manufactures license. right now, they will allow you to do it occasionally, but it can't be advertised, and you can't do it very often,

when she saw my lathe, milling machine, etc, she gently pushed me towards changing my app to an 07 license, which requires more inspections, and paperwork. but I only plan on repairing /restoring old military guns, and not changing their configuration, maybe bringing a sporterized gun BACK to its original configuration, which is OK. that brought up another discussion on obliterated S/N. drill a hole and nick the S/N? you just obliterated the number, even covering the numbrr with a permenant mount, etc is considered to obliterated, which wil be tricky on some old milsurp guns like the M1 garand and carbine.

oh, and $90 renewal every 3 years. $200 for the dealer/gunsmith application, $150 for the 07 manufacturer application

 

[upTheHill]

oh, and from my reading and atf interview, that the only diff from the atf's point of view between dealer license and gunsmith license is that the gunsmith does not need regular "store" hours. I can (and will) have appointment only hours.

 

[Bobby Bailey]

I almost hate to reply to this as there is so much misinformation out there. Read and learn the law on firearms, it is on the ATF website and you can get their publications. I have had a gunsmith business since 1978 and a 01 license has been for both dealers and gunsmiths at least since then. Basically, when I work on a customers gun I am doing gunsmithing. If I take a shop owned gun and change it looking to sell it, then I would be manufacturing. Example: If I take a factory rifle from the shelf, build it into a custom rifle, then sell it,that is manufacturing. If a customer brings me a rifle and requests custom work,upgrades, changes, etc., that is gunsmithing.
You are correct about the "store hours vs appointment hours"
Bobby