Good morning PM users, new guy here

[bill70j]

I'm very open to everyone's comments that have any of the machines good or bad.
Thanks
Steve

Steve:
I have had my PM-1440GT for three years. I am very happy with the purchase and would make the same decision without hesitation.

I have had to call PM only twice - once to address a loose connection in the lock-out switch on the gearbox cover, and once to address a minor issue with the DRO I bought from them. Both times Matt answered my call and worked me through the issues over the phone.

We have had discussions on this Board regarding the compound lock down design, but I have not experienced any problems with my machine.

From my point of view, PM's reputation as a supplier of quality machines and excellent customer service is solid.

HTH, Bill

 

[Skowinski]

Not a new guy here, but lurking in this thread because I'm teetering on the brink of ordering a PM-833T. Steve R I've been researching these machines for over a month now, and overall am hearing very favorable things about them, particularly the Taiwanese machines, and perhaps especially about Precision Matthews customer service. Twice I've emailed them and got a response almost immediately both times. I'll take that as a sign of things to come after I buy....

 

[Stonebriar]

Steve,
I have the 1440GT and the 935TV mill and would purchase again. The compound lock issue in the 1440 has been addressed on the newer machines. Mine is almost a year old and they moved the hole to another spot on the dial. Only thing would do different is to get the 949 instead if the 935. Great company to buy from.

 

[Kiwi Canuck]

If you are buying 2 machines at the same time you can probably get a few extra dollars discount with a package deal and some savings on shipping as well, Cash or equivalent will get you another discount 2-3%.
Great machines and great company to deal with.

David

 

[Steve R]

Thanks for the replies. I know they say about 50% of machine cost to go to tooling. However I'm a mechanic and know that tool buying never ends. I have been doing that since early 1983 and still buying tools. I also like to have really good stuff and not the cheap to get me by for now (till it breaks when you need it). I'm thinking the 1340GT would do what I want but don't know how much the brake and coolant would be used on the 1440GT besides being beefier. Between the two with the accessories I picked from PM is about $3K different, which could/would go for tooling. But I would also rather spend the extra 3K on the 1440GT if it is a better fit for what I would like to do. I would rather over spend now, then get the a 1340GT and later wished I had the 1440GT. It is a tough call. It is easier to come up with money for tooling as time goes by then to come up with enough to buy another machine. I know if I would get the 1340 and later want the 1440 my son would say, just buy the 1440 and I will take the 1340 out of your way (for free) to help out . I do have some measuring tools (indicators, mikes, calipers, etc.). I have nothing for the mill as far as tooling goes. Between the 833T and the 949T it would be $3200 difference. But it is the same way as the lathe. Anyone here bought a knee mill and wished they had gotten a benchtop unit instead or bought a benchtop and wished they went with knee mill later?? Sorry for the rambling. It is much tougher when you can't actually see them to compare them.

 

[wrmiller]

I've had several benchtops. From a little shurline mill up to my current PM935TS. I've run larger mills, but my space and money constraints kept me from getting a 949T or 1054T.

To answer your question about bed or knee mill, I prefer the knee mill. I do mostly small hobby stuff and build/customize a few pistols and rifles when I can. I used to do everything on a bench mill. I do the same things on a knee mill faster/easier. YMMV.

If I had the funds, I'd have a PM1054TV and a PM1440TL. But I haven't won the lottery yet, so I'm happy to keep what I have.

 

[7milesup]

Just a thought here... if you plan on converting to CNC down the road, a heavy bench mill (like the 833) I would think would be more conducive to conversion. Of course, you could get a HAAS too...

 

[springer]

Wish I was still in sioux falls, I'd let you come play with my 1340gt. Love it. I've had several "old iron" lathes and then bought a pm1236 and a pm932 mill. Sold those 2 and bought the 1340gt. Dont regret it at all. Love my 1340. As for the 1340 vs 1440, I think it would just come down to capacity. Both are quality machines. If you get the 3 phase and a vfd, the brake on the 1440 becomes irrelevant. and you have the gap bed if you need to turn something larger in diameter. If it were me, unless I had a specific need for the 14" swing, I'd save the money and buy tooling with the 1340.

 

[mksj]

Being a mechanic, I assume you will have some bigger/heavier projects, so I would look at the bigger heavier machines. It is a big jump up cost wise from the 1340GT to 1440GT, you do get a larger spindle bore, more Hp and heavier bed. Foot brake is somewhat relative, I owned the 1340GT and without VFD braking I would be uncomfortable using it. With a VFD, you get faster braking (1-2 seconds), smooth acceleration, variable speed on the fly and better surface finish compared to single phase. Foot brake is great for emergency stop with 100% reliability and also holding the chuck when manually tapping, etc. Tooling wise there is a much heavier investment on the lathe end then the mill at this level.

On the mill, I would recommend a full sized knee mill since you have the space. If you were limited, then maybe the PM-833 or 940. I started out with the 1340GT and a benchtop, and subsequently moved up to a full sized knee mill and a much heavier lathe. Quantitatively I get the same precision from all the machines, the knee gives me more table space, has much less vibration and much easier to do bigger projects. It does always come down to the budget, and then you are always looking at the next bigger machine/model. Really depends the nature/size of the work and if you plan on keeping your machines for a long time. I do not see any upgrades in the future for my machines in the time I will be around, so the spend factor is amortized over hopefully many years of use. The 949 mill is a good size table, I have a 9 x 42" table and there are a few times I wished I went with the 9 x 50" just to be able to fit multiple fixtures on the table. My arms are not that long so most of the time I am happy with the shorter width. Deciding on the TS/TV, most people I have known buying these types of mills will go with the TV if single phase motor or the TV 3 phase motor if they have an RPC, otherwise the TS 3 phase with a VFD. Cost wise probably the least expensive is probably the TS 3 phase with the VFD but requires a bit of work to wire it up.

It is a bit going out on a limb buying a machine site unseen, but there is an abundance of user experience on this site for these machines and individuals willing to share their reviews. I would look at features, quality and post sales service. It is also just not a numbers game, and poor quality smalls thrown into the package. Like good tools, better to have fewer quality tools then a draw full of crap tools that you do not use anymore. If you are careful and not what you are looking for you can pick up some NOS of lightly used tooling and very reasonable prices.

 

[davidpbest]

Thanks for the replies. I know they say about 50% of machine cost to go to tooling. However I'm a mechanic and know that tool buying never ends. I have been doing that since early 1983 and still buying tools. I also like to have really good stuff and not the cheap to get me by for now (till it breaks when you need it). I'm thinking the 1340GT would do what I want but don't know how much the brake and coolant would be used on the 1440GT besides being beefier. Between the two with the accessories I picked from PM is about $3K different, which could/would go for tooling. But I would also rather spend the extra 3K on the 1440GT if it is a better fit for what I would like to do. I would rather over spend now, then get the a 1340GT and later wished I had the 1440GT. It is a tough call. It is easier to come up with money for tooling as time goes by then to come up with enough to buy another machine. I know if I would get the 1340 and later want the 1440 my son would say, just buy the 1440 and I will take the 1340 out of your way (for free) to help out . I do have some measuring tools (indicators, mikes, calipers, etc.). I have nothing for the mill as far as tooling goes. Between the 833T and the 949T it would be $3200 difference. But it is the same way as the lathe. Anyone here bought a knee mill and wished they had gotten a benchtop unit instead or bought a benchtop and wished they went with knee mill later?? Sorry for the rambling. It is much tougher when you can't actually see them to compare them.

I've had a couple of benchtop mills and moved to a knee mill a couple years ago (PM935). I also have a PM1340. Precision Matthews has been delightful to work with and has been prompt at correcting issues and having parts shipped from the factory via air when required.

Some specific comments on the lathe choice: You may already be aware of the spec differences, but I'll point out the salient differences here because it's awfully easy to get sidetracked on differences that don't much matter. The 1440 has an enclosed gearbox, the 1340 has an open bottom Norton style gearbox. This may or many not be important to you, but the Norton is messy since it drips oil but can easily removed if you ever plan to implement an electronic lead screw system. The 1440 chuck interface is D1-5 camlock with an MT 5-1/2 internal taper and 2" bore, the 1340 is D1-4 camlock with MT5 internal taper and 1-9/16" bore. The 1440 is about 500 pounds heavier than the 1340 and that will surely translate into some improved rigidity, but that's not exactly the full story since the compound is the weakest link in rigidity IMO, and I've moved on to a solid tool post on my 1340 to gain the desired rigidity. I have also upgraded my 1340 in several ways including a VFD which provides all the braking capability I need. I also run MQL coolant (Fogbuster) rather than flood and find it sufficient for the kind of work I do (stainless and 4140 mostly). You could always add flood coolant later on the 1340 if you found you needed it. Which ever one you decide on, install a DRO and a quality QC tool post. Lots of people here have moved to VFD driven motors, and some (me included) have even swapped out the factory motor for a vector drive motor with superior torque and HP. Pick your chucks with as much care as the machine itself.

While the differences between the two lathes you call out are real, IMO those differences are small in comparison to the differences between the 833T and the PM949. The capacity differences of the two machines are obvious and potentially important in your decision, but the biggest difference IMO is reflected in the weight of the two machines and how that will translate into rigidity. The 833T is about 900 pounds, whereas the 949 is 2300 pounds. My PM935 is more like 1500 pounds but has proven to be less rigid than the RF45 benchtop mill it replaced. I will confess to being a stickler on a couple of aspects related to mills: one is the rigidity, which translates directly into how aggressive you can be removing material and how surfaces finish and tolerances can be maintained; the other is low end torque for heavy drilling and machine tapping. I bring up the latter because the 833 comes in two drive types, The 833T geared head with substantial low end torque, the 833TV belt driven substantially higher top speed but at diminished low speed torque. You might find this white paper an interesting read since it chronicles some of my "learned wisdom" on these topics in my move from the benchtop RF45 to the PM935 baby knee mill. A couple of other things worth mentioning: a power drawbar is one of the most useful additions to any mill, and there are commercial products and more DIY info on adding a PDB to the J-head 949, and almost no information that I've found on putting a PDB on the 833, which means it will be more challenging. Also, power feed on the X-axis for the table is available for both machines, but if you want Y-axis power feed, commercial units are available for the 949 but not the 833.

PM me if you'd like to delve deeper into any of this. FWIW, here are links to my PM1340 lathe build log, and my PM935 build log. Good luck in your selection.