Going to look at a 1944 12CK… what to look for?

[mattthemuppet2]

woohoo, congrats! She's a beautiful old girl. I think I have a steady rest for a 12CK, plus there's a good chance I have a tool post, live center and drill chuck that might work with it too. What size 4 jaw does it take? A friend of mine has one that might fit.

 

[Sellers Machine Co]

woohoo, congrats! She's a beautiful old girl. I think I have a steady rest for a 12CK, plus there's a good chance I have a tool post, live center and drill chuck that might work with it too. What size 4 jaw does it take? A friend of mine has one that might fit.

Thank you! Wow that would be awesome! This one will swing 18.5”, and currently has a 10” 3 jaw on it.

 

[rabler]

I’m new to machining but I think this is one of the best condition machines I’ve purchased, other than the backlash. I’m sure some of that can be adjusted out though.

You're off to a good start with what looks like a radial arm drill and a Milwaukee horizontal mill in the background.

With the Monarch, my usual suggestion is to check/replace the oil filters, which are little silver dollar sized pieces of felt on the intake to the oil pumps, one in the headstock and one in the apron.

 

[mattthemuppet2]

Thank you! Wow that would be awesome! This one will swing 18.5”, and currently has a 10” 3 jaw on it.

PM sent

 

[Sellers Machine Co]

You're off to a good start with what looks like a radial arm drill and a Milwaukee horizontal mill in the background.

With the Monarch, my usual suggestion is to check/replace the oil filters, which are little silver dollar sized pieces of felt on the intake to the oil pumps, one in the headstock and one in the apron.

I’ve been collecting! The radial arm drill is in working condition and I got it for a steal. The K&T horizontal is a basket case… everything is froze up. Not sure what I’ll do with it yet. I also have a Wells Index 845 knee mill, a Kempsmith horizontal mill, and all sorts of other assorted stuff. I love old machinery haha. I’ll dig in and get those filters replaced on the Monarch! We ran it through all the gears before I bought it, everything seemed to function well. There is some rattling coming from either the motor or the clutch, I’ll have to dig into that.

 

[Sellers Machine Co]

I got the build sheet from Monarch, really nice people there! It looks like she was one of two sent to Wadell Engineering Company in Passaic, NJ in September 1944. It has a Defense Plant Corporation ID tag so it was a war effort machine.

 

[rabler]

My CK was built 8/44, although mine wasn't raised from the basic 14.5". I have later model Monarch that I use (rarely) for the bigger stuff. Also have a '44 K&T 3K vertical. No radial arm drill though, while having one would be nice, my space is no longer clammering to be filled.

Does the rattling settle down when the spindle is engaged (spinning)? If so, it is not unusual. The clutch plate floats on the shaft when the clutch is not driving the spindle and can make a ringing rattle. There are some keys in there that get worn that make it worse. I wouldn't rate fixing that as critical but t does help the rather annoying rattle.




If you tear into the clutch, be careful to count the turns on both the inner and outer threading of the clutch spider when removing it. If you don't it takes a bit of fiddling to get the clutch to work right again.



These little springs, which are often missing/lost, help release the clutch, but if your clutch is sticky, it may need to be degreased. There is an grease fitting to service the needle bearing that the clutch pulley rides on, but it is easy to overgrease and it will make it's way to the clutch giving you a sticky clutch. You don't want to neglect that bearing though, it is no longer available and if it goes bad some modifications are necessary.

 

[Ultradog MN]

I got the build sheet from Monarch, really nice people there! It looks like she was one of two sent to Wadell Engineering Company in Passaic, NJ in September 1944. It has a Defense Plant Corporation ID tag so it was a war effort machine.

Now I'm really interested in all that extra stuff on the apron. What it is for, does it all still work, etc.
I do see that your compound is quite a bit taller than normal which makes sense given the extra swing. You still may need to make a special spacer to get a quick change tool post up to the right height.
I use a CXA size Aloris on mine and think it is a good fit
@mattthemuppet2
If Sellers Machine cant use the steady rest you have - maybe due to his extra swing? I would be.

 

[Beckerkumm]

Very sweet Monarch. I see it is a 700 rpm machine which may be a little faster than normal for that model. Maybe others familiar with CK can chime in as to spindle bearings and top end. My 60 was a 700 rpm machine and I speeded it up for smaller stuff with no problems. I find that 1000 rpm on a Monarch is plenty fast and gives a very good finish with carbide inserts. I believe that Tailstock4 here suggested synthetic oil for old Monarchs as the oil flows through the pipes and meters more easily so the same weight oil quiets the machine and allows for somewhat higher rpm if wanted or needed.

I intend to try that when my standard ISO68 oil gets old so no real first hand opinion.

Dave

 

[Sellers Machine Co]

My CK was built 8/44, although mine wasn't raised from the basic 14.5". I have later model Monarch that I use (rarely) for the bigger stuff. Also have a '44 K&T 3K vertical. No radial arm drill though, while having one would be nice, my space is no longer clammering to be filled.

Does the rattling settle down when the spindle is engaged (spinning)? If so, it is not unusual. The clutch plate floats on the shaft when the clutch is not driving the spindle and can make a ringing rattle. There are some keys in there that get worn that make it worse. I wouldn't rate fixing that as critical but t does help the rather annoying rattle.

View attachment 499203
View attachment 499206

If you tear into the clutch, be careful to count the turns on both the inner and outer threading of the clutch spider when removing it. If you don't it takes a bit of fiddling to get the clutch to work right again.

View attachment 499204

These little springs, which are often missing/lost, help release the clutch, but if your clutch is sticky, it may need to be degreased. There is a grease fitting to service the needle bearing that the clutch pulley rides on, but it is easy to overgrease and it will make its way to the clutch giving you a sticky clutch. You don't want to neglect that bearing though, it is no longer available and if it goes bad some modifications are necessary.
View attachment 499205

Awesome information there, thank you! Now that you mention it, the rattle was only when the spindle wasn’t engaged. So that’s one less thing I’ll worry about! I definitely want to make sure everything is lubricated as it should be. I’m going to go through the manual Monarch sent me.