Going crazy(er)

[Firstram]

I have a LMS 7x16 lathe. Why did I get it? I wanted a small lathe that was a little better quality than the usual Chinese one, that was reparable and had parts availability. LMS supports their products.

Why such a small lathe? Because I really didn't have room for much bigger, and had no idea how to move larger ones by myself and I wanted to reduce the chance of buying a lemon used one. I learned a whole lot with it. Don't regret my purchase a bit.

Later, I had both the opportunity and additional knowledge to be able to get a slightly larger, used 10x22. I wouldn't have been able to evaluate used equipment without the previous experience. Have used my 7x16 to make parts to fix my 10x22. I use them both, because sometimes the little one is better for the job, or I don't want to disturb a set up.

If circumstances were different, maybe I'd get a larger one, but currently, with the small basement shop that I have, this is the best I can do. If I move to a place with more space for these activities maybe I will upgrade again. Or maybe I'll be happy enough with what I have. We'll see.

I love my heavily modified 7x10! It's the perfect lathe for small parts, I'll never get rid of it!

 

[verbotenwhisky]

I have a LMS 7x16 lathe. Why did I get it? I wanted a small lathe that was a little better quality than the usual Chinese one, that was reparable and had parts availability. LMS supports their products.

Why such a small lathe? Because I really didn't have room for much bigger, and had no idea how to move larger ones by myself and I wanted to reduce the chance of buying a lemon used one. I learned a whole lot with it. Don't regret my purchase a bit.

Later, I had both the opportunity and additional knowledge to be able to get a slightly larger, used 10x22. I wouldn't have been able to evaluate used equipment without the previous experience. Have used my 7x16 to make parts to fix my 10x22. I use them both, because sometimes the little one is better for the job, or I don't want to disturb a set up.

If circumstances were different, maybe I'd get a larger one, but currently, with the small basement shop that I have, this is the best I can do. If I move to a place with more space for these activities maybe I will upgrade again. Or maybe I'll be happy enough with what I have. We'll see.

I love your general attitude and theory. I have sold machines in the past that I regret selling, if you have a small machine you like and need/want larger keeping the small machine is awesome.

 

[Aaron_W]

I have Never seen or used or repaired any of these small Chinese lathes, so my opinion doesn't carry much if any weight.
I have read many post on the issues of these peices of.....equipment and wonder why someone wouldn't just buy an old Atlas, Craftsman,Southbend small lathe.
At least when you get done repairing and improving it you have something of value.

Not even close to the same size machines.

The 7x10" has a foot print of 12x24", and a weight of 72lbs. The largest of the 7" family is the 7x16", with a footprint 10x31" and a weight of 90lbs. Even the largest of these lathes can be hand carried by one adult of average strength, and easily moved by two people.


The only common USA made lathes you can really compare to the smaller import lathes are the 6x18 Atlas / Craftsman (aka 101.xxx) and the AA / Dunlap / Craftsman 6x18 and 6x12" (aka109.xxx).

Atlas 618 has a much deeper foot print thanks to the rear mounted motor, 22x33" with a weight of 120-140lbs (varies based on motor chosen, mounting board etc). A strong individual can move it alone, but it is awkward and really should be done with two people.

The AA / Dunlap / Craftsman is marginally smaller and about 40lbs lighter, but also a significantly lesser machine.


One could have a good debate on the Atlas 618 vs import 7x16" that would ultimately only be settled by an individuals needs, each having places where they are better than the other. Import is variable speed with a larger swing and spindle bore, Atlas has a back gear and was arguably better made when new (42-86 years ago).

I don't think that there is much if any debate about all but the absolute worst of the imports being better than the AA lathes.


Even the smallest 9x17" that South Bend offered dwarfs most of these imports and has a weight in the range of 250-300lbs. Those very short bed South Bend lathes are also not terribly common.

Until you get into the 9x20 and 10x22 imports, there is very little on the vintage market to directly compete in this niche.

 

[JackBrush]

Actually our very own @Chazz has a 7x16 which is fundamentally the same design as the Seig machines.

He manages rather well.

I don't see the point of the hate of these things. I've yet to see an old iron lathe near me for $500 nor even a Southend 9 that wasn't $1500. My point about the apartment line was those dudes really don't have room for a heavy 10 or something else more accepted by folks on here but theyre still able to participate because of them.

 

[SouthernChap]

I was referring to the smaller machines, not the larger lathes offered by Warco.

Oh, just the Mini and Super Mini, I see. Are they definitely Seig machines?

The reason I ask is that Warco Mini and Super Mini have induction hardened beds and I think the Seig mini lathes have heat hardened beds. Also, IIRC, the Mini has an angular contact bearing on the front (with only the rear having a standard ball bearing) of the spindle and with the Super Mini having both as tapered bearings.

I think the better spindle bearing setup is something Weiss does. AFAIR the Seig mini lathes only come with ball bearings.

The mini lathes available do seem to differ by what 'upgrades' the importer specifies (and how much QC they pay for at the factory end and how much they do in house too).

I reckon though, when comparing to 'old iron', the more useful comparison is probably with the likes of the 10x22 lathes like those Warco (and PM) offers.

 

[SouthernChap]

PM also has custom mods made so what they are selling isn't quit the same.

Oh really, I wasn't aware of that. I thought it was improved QC they pay for and insist on at the factory end, and their own QC at PM's end, plus some better components fitted that PM specify, like bearings and electronics, for example. I wasn't aware they modified the designs too. Nice.

 

[SouthernChap]

I don't see the point of the hate of these things. I've yet to see an old iron lathe near me for $500 nor even a Southend 9 that wasn't $1500. My point about the apartment line was those dudes really don't have room for a heavy 10 or something else more accepted by folks on here but theyre still able to participate because of them.

Yep, I personally believe the total dismissal of the whole class of mini lathes as 'junk' or 'toys' is not only silly, but also counterproductive and can prevent a fair few people from starting out.

I called my purchase of a mini lathe a 'mistake' in a post above but that's probably overstating the case; it's more like a minor regret.

But another aspect to this is that the simplistic and exaggerated characterisation of the 'uselessness' of the Chinese mini lathe might well also lead people to make bad purchasing decisions.

I could easily see people who might have considered buying something more capable secondhand, comparing the claims of the uselessness of the mini lathe with what they see some youtubers achieving with their mini lathes, and conclude that the 'old iron is better iron' (and to be fair, 'old iron' often is 'better iron') message is just elitism and gatekeeping. They then go and buy a mini lathe instead of taking some time time to find an ML7 or an SB9 or the likes.

One day, I'll get round to posting my thoughts on how beginners with little or no machining experience are poorly served for buying advice.

 

[sdelivery]

Not even close to the same size machines.

The 7x10" has a foot print of 12x24", and a weight of 72lbs. The largest of the 7" family is the 7x16", with a footprint 10x31" and a weight of 90lbs. Even the largest of these lathes can be hand carried by one adult of average strength, and easily moved by two people.


The only common USA made lathes you can really compare to the smaller import lathes are the 6x18 Atlas / Craftsman (aka 101.xxx) and the AA / Dunlap / Craftsman 6x18 and 6x12" (aka109.xxx).

Atlas 618 has a much deeper foot print thanks to the rear mounted motor, 22x33" with a weight of 120-140lbs (varies based on motor chosen, mounting board etc). A strong individual can move it alone, but it is awkward and really should be done with two people.

The AA / Dunlap / Craftsman is marginally smaller and about 40lbs lighter, but also a significantly lesser machine.


One could have a good debate on the Atlas 618 vs import 7x16" that would ultimately only be settled by an individuals needs, each having places where they are better than the other. Import is variable speed with a larger swing and spindle bore, Atlas has a back gear and was arguably better made when new (42-86 years ago).

I don't think that there is much if any debate about all but the absolute worst of the imports being better than the AA lathes.


Even the smallest 9x17" that South Bend offered dwarfs most of these imports and has a weight in the range of 250-300lbs. Those very short bed South Bend lathes are also not terribly common.

Until you get into the 9x20 and 10x22 imports, there is very little on the vintage market to directly compete in this niche.

Thank you, I didn't realize they were so much smaller . I look ar swing and bed length and think they HAVE to be similar in physical size.

 

[GrifterGuru]

Oh, just the Mini and Super Mini, I see. Are they definitely Seig machines?

When you look at the bare bones of them, yes, they appear to be Sieg machines with Warren Machine Co (Warco) specified upgrades.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

Oh really, I wasn't aware of that. I thought it was improved QC they pay for and insist on at the factory end, and their own QC at PM's end, plus some better components fitted that PM specify, like bearings and electronics, for example. I wasn't aware they modified the designs too. Nice.

Both my Lathe and my Mill have imperial lead screws, there are several mods but this one is a big one in the states.