Go and no go gages

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Can anyone explain the simple use of these gages.

I have one set up to .5" plus and one set up to .5 minus
comes with a double sided holder red and green, no go and go?
i was very intrigued by the simple direct way the sets seem to work, just not sure of the correct way and problems to look out for.
Any help would be most useful. When i learn and get up to speed on my lathe and mill and grinding techniques, i would like to build something fairly simple, but high precision.
Thanks
jon
 
Can anyone explain the simple use of these gages.

I have one set up to .5" plus and one set up to .5 minus
comes with a double sided holder red and green, no go and go?
i was very intrigued by the simple direct way the sets seem to work, just not sure of the correct way and problems to look out for.
Any help would be most useful. When i learn and get up to speed on my lathe and mill and grinding techniques, i would like to build something fairly simple, but high precision.
Thanks
jon

Jon

Didn't you intend those tolerances to read +.005" and -.005"?
 
Hi ,
Thanks for the reply. Here is what i got of the box it comes in:
Class zz .0002 tolerance limit
0.251- 0.500 inches. 250 piece set i hve 1 minus tolerance set and 1 plus tolerance set
Any info would be appreciated
these were bought at enco and are the SPI brand.
job
 
What that means is that when the pins were graded, they gave themselves criteria to class the pins. The "plus" pins may vary as much as 0.0002 on the plus side of nominal, and the "minus" pins may vary up to 0.0002 under nominal. Many people assume that the pin IS actually 0.0002 under or over, but that is not the case. Most of the pins I have checked are fairly close to nominal size, so some wear is expected and allowed to occur and yet the pins stay within the original limits.

Think of them as, for example, the 0.2500 pin MUST measure from 0.2500 to 0.2502 if it it is plus pin, and 0.2500 to 0.2498 if it is a minus. As you can see, there is a possibility that the pin could be, for all practical purposes, 0.2500 in either or both cases, but yet be acceptable as a minus or plus pin.

In actual use, always remember that there must be a certain amount of clearance for hand fitting the pins. You will not put a 0.2500 (actual) pin in a 0.2500 hole by hand. That's zero clearance and is considered a light press fit. Common practice is to drop 0.001 and say that if the 0.2500 will not go, but the 0.2490 goes easily, the hole is likely acceptable if specified with a 0.2500 minimum. Same rule applies on the high tolerance. If the high is specified to be 0.2500, the 0.2500 pin should not go. Now, having said that, IF the pin actually measures (as a minus pin) at it's own low tolerance (0.2498) it might be possible to get it in the hole if the hole is actually 0.02500. However, that would require a rare set of conditions that includes a very good surface finish in the hole, and the hole being very straight, and likely not very deep (or material not very thick). Most inspections are done with pins 0.001 under the required limits. Of course, in the event you have a +/- 0.005 tolerance, there certainly wouldn't be a problem if you used (on our 0.2500 example) a 0.2450 pin as a go, and a 0.2540 pin as a no go. The operator or machinist you are inspecting would be within his rights to balk a little on the use of a 0.2450 pin as a "Go", and arguably the hole could be on the very low end of tolerance and the pin would not go, but as good practice, we generally would not want the hole to hug either end of the tolerance. He should not have used a tool that produced a hole that close to the low tolerance. And it might be that the 0.2540 pin would go into a 0.2549 hole....true, and another argument could result. But in QC theory, the closer you get to the shipping dock, the looser the tolerances are. As a final inspector, you have the true high and low pins. On the machine, the operator should have been shooting for a +/-0.003, for example. That allows an error at the machine which still allows a chance for making an acceptable part. This mode of operation is subject to question in some cases, and lots of people do not like it, calling it unfair. But it is done in places.

I hope I did not merely confuse you. I'm pretty opinionated in QA/QC matters, having worked it for a few years.
 
I've seen TP @ 0.0000 MMC.....owner of the company called me in to explain how we were going to make the parts, and how they were going to be checked. He was old school, and did not understand (or need to, really) GD&T. Never mind the feature tolerance. I'll give him credit for spotting the feature control frame though. He did at least ask about it. I called the engineer and asked him why he chose to dimension and tolerance it that way, and never got a satisfactory answer.
 
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I've got well over a hundred plus go=no-go gages, but mine are all C shaped with adjustable carbide surfaces to measure round stock turnings, and maybe other things. I suppose they would be handy when turning shafts on the lathe. my gages are from small up to about 5 or 6 inches.--I was wondering if any members use this type?--Dave
 
What that means is that when the pins were graded, they gave themselves criteria to class the pins. The "plus" pins may vary as much as 0.0002 on the plus side of nominal, and the "minus" pins may vary up to 0.0002 under nominal. Many people assume that the pin IS actually 0.0002 under or over, but that is not the case. Most of the pins I have checked are fairly close to nominal size, so some wear is expected and allowed to occur and yet the pins stay within the original limits.

Think of them as, for example, the 0.2500 pin MUST measure from 0.2500 to 0.2502 if it it is plus pin, and 0.2500 to 0.2498 if it is a minus. As you can see, there is a possibility that the pin could be, for all practical purposes, 0.2500 in either or both cases, but yet be acceptable as a minus or plus pin.

In actual use, always remember that there must be a certain amount of clearance for hand fitting the pins. You will not put a 0.2500 (actual) pin in a 0.2500 hole by hand. That's zero clearance and is considered a light press fit. Common practice is to drop 0.001 and say that if the 0.2500 will not go, but the 0.2490 goes easily, the hole is likely acceptable if specified with a 0.2500 minimum. Same rule applies on the high tolerance. If the high is specified to be 0.2500, the 0.2500 pin should not go. Now, having said that, IF the pin actually measures (as a minus pin) at it's own low tolerance (0.2498) it might be possible to get it in the hole if the hole is actually 0.02500. However, that would require a rare set of conditions that includes a very good surface finish in the hole, and the hole being very straight, and likely not very deep (or material not very thick). Most inspections are done with pins 0.001 under the required limits. Of course, in the event you have a +/- 0.005 tolerance, there certainly wouldn't be a problem if you used (on our 0.2500 example) a 0.2450 pin as a go, and a 0.2540 pin as a no go. The operator or machinist you are inspecting would be within his rights to balk a little on the use of a 0.2450 pin as a "Go", and arguably the hole could be on the very low end of tolerance and the pin would not go, but as good practice, we generally would not want the hole to hug either end of the tolerance. He should not have used a tool that produced a hole that close to the low tolerance. And it might be that the 0.2540 pin would go into a 0.2549 hole....true, and another argument could result. But in QC theory, the closer you get to the shipping dock, the looser the tolerances are. As a final inspector, you have the true high and low pins. On the machine, the operator should have been shooting for a +/-0.003, for example. That allows an error at the machine which still allows a chance for making an acceptable part. This mode of operation is subject to question in some cases, and lots of people do not like it, calling it unfair. But it is done in places.

I hope I did not merely confuse you. I'm pretty opinionated in QA/QC matters, having worked it for a few years.
Thanks Tony, you explained it very well.
jon
 
I hate it when an engineer gets carried away using geometric tolerancing and doesn't have a clue what any of it means!!!

For example, true positioning of a 2" drilled hole held within .005". And the drilled hole is 12" deep!

I do specify GD&T on drawings for certain features, and only if it is necessary to control a feature of a part. Other than that, good old common sense works the best!
 
Agreed, Ken. When I first learned it, it seemed ridiculously restrictive. Now that I understand it, it actually makes parts easier to make that function. That really is what drove the system into existence. You gain tolerance, overall, when using it. It may not seem like it at first, but it does allow more latitude that you simply could not express in conventional X,Y tolerancing, for example. You couldn't say, put this hole HERE, but if it happens to be on the high side, it doesn't have to be exactly there, so the +/- 0.010 location doesn't really apply. That location had to be, out of necessity, the worst case location error given that the hole may end up on the low side. It can be intimidating to learn if you try to take it on all at once, but it is a good system, IMO.
 
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