Fly cutter fab...before I jump in.

[BaronJ]

Hi Terry,

There is nothing fundamentally wrong at all ! I wouldn't bother setting it up to adjust the cutter angle, simply because you would have to rotate the insert much than you are able, in order to exceed the nose radius.

The only other comment I would make is that in order to take advantage of carbide, you would have to run the cutter at a high speed. This is where the disc type fly cutter wins hands down !
There is almost no out of balance component and the flywheel effect reduces any hammer that occurs with an intermittent cut.

The out of balance issue is one that occurs when using a boring head as a fly cutter.

 

[NEL957]

Fly cutters are one of the simplest tool to make but in some of the pics I've seen things that are not right. But with that said, there is one cutter that caught my eye as a more than good. I have tried the carbides and I will not waste my time or money on them. I feel the cutter to use is HSS and the best would be a cobalt cutter. The best thing about them is you pull the cutter and stone it a little bit and you are ready with a sharper smoother cut.
I am surprised how long this thread has gone and I love all the input.
Thank all of you.
Nelson

 

[BaronJ]

Hi Nelson,

Come on, don't keep us all in suspense !
I'm here to learn and in the process, hopefully impart some knowledge to others.

 

[TomS]

I know you are looking to make a fly cutter with an angle mounted tool slot. I made a couple fly cutters without the angle. Thought you might be interested.

This one is 3" in diameter and can use 2 tool bits. The shank is 3/4" because that's the largest collet I have. I run it at about 2600 rpm and 10 IPM.




Here's my 1-1/4" fly cutter. I run this one at 5000 rpm and 22 to 25 IPM. Shank is 5/8".

 

[GunsOfNavarone]

So tell me, i am seeing mostly (or all) fly cuttters here, very "flat". What are the advantages to say something like these Grizzly fly cutters?
Griz fly cutter

 

[rwm]

I have the Grizzly set as well as a few of the type TJB posted. Practically, they all work the same.
The cutting geometry is pretty similar.


Robert

 

[rwm]

Double post sorry

 

[TomS]

So tell me, i am seeing mostly (or all) fly cuttters here, very "flat". What are the advantages to say something like these Grizzly fly cutters?
Griz fly cutter

+1 on what RWM said. The flat style fly cutters are a bit easier to make as they are mostly simple lathe turning operations, mill a slot for the tool and drill and tap for set screws. Machining the angle is another step in the process. Not a big deal, just another step.

 

[mikey]

Just sticking my nose in here to drop an opinion. I like HSS for most things but for fly cutting and boring, I prefer inserted carbide. There is nothing more frustrating than to see the finish change when the HSS tool goes dull part way through the cut and I've seen this enough that I stopped using it. If you must use HSS, I suggest M2 HSS, which is far more impact-resistant than cobalt. I also suggest a nose radius no larger than 1/32" if you want tool life to be reasonable. If you can, increase back rake enough to put the cutting load near the tip and add enough side rake to minimize cutting loads (12-15 degrees is usually enough).

I think a good fly cutter has to do two things: It has to make stuff flat with a fine finish and it should ideally be able to turn a shoulder or ledge.

In the former case, I think a positive rake cutter is best. Yeah, a negative rake cutter will transfer more heat to the chip but it doesn't finish as well as a positive rake cutter and it needs more horsepower and rigidity. Positive rake cutters use less power and finish finer at speeds and feeds most hobby mills can run at.

In order to be able to fly cut a ledge, the tool holder has to have zero rake geometry. That is, the cutting edge that cuts the ledge has to be vertical. One company that makes such a fly cutter is Kristi Tool, the maker of the B-52 fly cutter:



See that vertical face? That is what cuts a ledge, while the nose radius determines the finish. This thing can take a 0.100" deep cut at 6, 000 rpm! There are LH turning and boring tools with this exact geometry; just have to find it.

I don't own the B-52 ... yet. I do own a Tormach Superfly and that thing can take a 0.075" deep cut in aluminum at 2400 rpm without even slowing the mill down and it finishes fairly well. BUT it cannot cut a ledge so it is not ideal for my needs. I have adapted a Sherline inserted carbide fly cutter (it is essentially a single-insert little face mill) for use on my larger mill and it will cut a near mirror finish AND it will cut ledges. The only problem is that it is only 1-1/8" in diameter so I need to make a bigger one sometime soon.

Nothing wrong with angled fly cutters or HSS, and nothing wrong with the flat planer-type fly cutters either, especially if all you want is to make a surface flat. I've just found that inserted carbide will outlast and outperform a HSS tool easily in a fly cutter so that is what I would suggest.

Food for thought.

 

[tjb]

So tell me, i am seeing mostly (or all) fly cuttters here, very "flat". What are the advantages to say something like these Grizzly fly cutters?
Griz fly cutter

Guns,

When I did the practice cuts with my fly cutter, I noticed a curious result. I got a beautiful finish when moving the table from right to left (feeding from the right). But when feeding from the left, it was obvious there was an ever-so-slight second engagement of the cutting tip when exiting the work piece. That's when I realized that if the mill is not perfectly indicated, the cutting edge is going to engage the work piece when it 'enters' the cut and also when it 'exits' the cut. Visualize it this way. If you're standing in front of the mill, in a perfect world, the head is going to be exactly perpendicular to the table - 12 o'clock straight up-and-down. But if it's off ever so slightly - say one second BEFORE 12 o-clock - the fly cutter will engage deeper on the left side of the cut than the right. So if you're feeding right to left, the back of the cut is 'higher' than the front, so you won't notice any distortion. But if you're feeding left to right, the cutter is going to engage the work piece twice: both when entering and exiting. (Obviously, that same phenomenon is occurring when using an end mill, but because of the larger sweep, it's only apparent when using a fly cutter.)

That's when it occurred to me, fly cutters seem to be fabricated according to one of two designs:
1. There is a single 'tooth' that lays PERPENDICULAR to the body of the fly cutter, and it is the only point which engages the work surface.
2. There is a tool 'bar' of some sort - a tool holder with an insert, or a HSS blank - either of which is laid PARALLEL to the body of the fly cutter.
Peruse through the pictures on this thread, and you'll see several examples of both.

In Type 1 fly cutters, there is no possibility for more than a single point of engagement between the cutting tool and the work piece. So even if the mill is not dead-perfectly indicated, the tool will do its job. (Obviously, in theory there will be some distortion, but unless the mill is way out of alignment, I would think it would be negligible. Thoughts from our experts?)

As noted above, however, Type 2 fly cutters have the potential to engage the work piece twice IF a. the fly cutter is milled exactly flat, AND b. the mill is even microscopically out of alignment. The solution to this potential problem seems to be to fabricate the cutter in such a way that the cutting tip enters the work at an exaggerated angle. This can be accomplished in one of two ways: Either by milling the 'face' of the cutter at an angle (which appears to be the way most commercially available cutters using a HSS blank are offered, like the Grizzly set you mentioned), or milling the 'slot' at an angle. Since I milled mine with both a flat face and slot, and the mill is evidently not dead-on indicated, an adjustment needed to be made. Hence, my solution of adding the set screw. (Just for the record, my mill is indicated but obviously not quite as 'true' as I thought. My guess is that may be the case for most hobby applications. Experts' thoughts?)

Bottom line is that regardless of design, ANY fly cutter should be constructed in such a way that the cutting tip only engages the work piece once per revolution. A properly constructed Type 1 or Type 2 will accomplish that.

Comments experts?

Regards,
Terry