ER32 Tapping collets or a Keyed chuck for machine tapping.

Just for fun

Tim Young
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I'm thinking of buying an R8 to ER32 collet holder and a few tapping collets for machine tapping. I have been tapping a few 1/4" holes lately but not having much luck machine tapping. The only R8 drill chuck I have is a keyless chuck. It doesn't hold as well as I would like going forward but in reverse it just loosens up all together.

It seems to me as though a little slippage is a good thing but once the tap stalls I can't reverse it with what I have. Maybe I should just buy a keyed chuck, how well do they work for tapping? I could buy a tapping head but holy moly they are expensive.

I just thought of this while I was typing this post.
I haven't tried putting a tap in an R8 collet (not sure if I have the right size or not) but maybe that will work.


ER32 Tapping collet

R8 to ER32 collet holder
 
Tim, please specify your mill, the material, and your lube. Once I understand where you're coming from, I can make specific recommendations. I've tried lots of tap toolholding and techniques, but it all start with "what material?". Also, what type of tap are you wanting to use - spiral flute, spiral point, gun, etc. and what diameter?
 
What I have recently been tapping is some sort of mystery steel. Seems relatively soft, as it files real easy. It's a piece of steel bar I picked up at the local metal recycling yard.
PM935 Mill with forward and reverse jog.
I'm using a 1/4x20 spiral flute tap using tap magic.

On this particular part the tapped hole was 18mm deep.

20221127_180240_copy_1512x1512.jpg
 
I'm sure there are plenty of users here who might disagree with my approach, and some even recommending that you employ an auto-reversing tapping head with a clutch, but here is how I approach maching tapping on with the 935 and a jog (quick-acting forward/reverse) control over the spindle.

In smaller diameters, spiral flute taps are the most susceptible to breaking because of the smaller cross-section of the tap (relative to a straight flute, gun tap, spiral point, or whatever). A spiral point tap of the same size/pitch will have a larger cross section and thus less susceptible to breakage. Consequently, when I have a choice between the two - which usually relates to whether the hole being tapped it open or closed at the bottom - I will choose a spiral point tap that pushes the cut material forward and out the bottom. I bring this up simply because you can apply more torque to a spiral point tap than a spiral flute tap of the same size/pitch.

I routinely tap at 1/4-20 using a keyed drill chuck and a spiral point tap into an open hole using the jog function on my 935 in backgear. A keyless chuck may or may not have enough gripping power to tap 18mm deep with that tap into something like 1018 steel, and the chuck will likely loosen when the spindle is reversed, which is why I use a keyed chuck. At 1/4", a spiral flute tap into softer steel should be fine in a keyed chuck that is cinched down enough that it doesn't slip - down to 15mm for sure and perhaps to 20mm. This is where your choice of tapping fluid is important and needs to be matched to the material. In my experience, the tapping fluid type matters more with smaller diameters and needs to be matched to the material being tapped. Stainless steel is particularly problematic in that it work hardens easily if you start plunging down, then out, then down again, etc.

Obviously, the risk with a keyed chuck is that you have little control over the torque being applied to the tap, and risk the tap breaking. Does putting the tap in an ER16/25/32 collet help? Only to the degree you can tighten the collet nut to a precise enough value that the tap will spin before it breaks. I've fussed and fussed with this and given up. It's a path to frustration.

A tapping head will give you hand-pressure control over the applied torque which can be helpful but isn't a panacea. I have owned and used three different tapping heads. They give you more control over the torque applied to the tap, lessening the possibility of the tap breaking, and of course they auto-reverse when the quill pressure is released, which is convenient. But you have jog control over your spindle, so the auto-reverse of the tapping head is of marginal value. But tapping heads also eat up a tremendous amount of Z-height, and really limit what you can tackle with a 935 since there is no riser-block available for that machine.

I sold all three of my tapping heads and focus instead on using a keyed chuck (Vertex) while optimizing the type and brand of tap and tapping fluid selection. I use TapMagic formulated for aluminum, A9, or WD40 on non-ferrous materials, Anchor Lube on carbon steels, and Tap Magic 10004E EP-Xtra Cutting Fluid on stainless. I have also had good results with Moly Dee tapping fluid in stainless. I also go out of my way to buy taps that are high quality, preferring brands such as Widia (from McMaster), Hertel, OSG, Guhring (from MSCDirect), and Morse (from MariTool).

Hope this helps.
 
I like an ER collet for power tapping (which I use on the mill) though I use a keyed chuck on my drill press - both work about the same with the edge going to the ER collet for most positive gripping. I don't try to calibrate any kind of 'slip' into my setup. I prefer spiral-fluted taps, and particularly in sizes like 1/4" I've never had a problem. I usually just hand tap anything smaller than a #8. In my experience the better chip evacuation of the spiral flute makes up for the smaller cross-section. I agree completely with David that high-quality taps and appropriate cutting fluid are a must. Most of my taps are Widia or YG and I have a strong preference for coatings, though I haven't noticed any particular coating being noticeably superior - just that something is much better than nothing.

GsT
 
Keyed chuck, spiral point taps and Tap Magic. More specialized tooling when the basics won't do the job.
 
Nobody else uses Bilz tap holders? They're pretty cheap and have a clutch. Not self-reversing like Tapmatic, but for tapping at the mill they're pretty nice.
 
have always used keyed drill chucks for tapping, although I have an Ettco Emerick reversing tapping head, I rarely use it because it has a taper shank. I use TapMagic for nearly everything that I do in my shop, except aluminum, a metal that I rarely machine, I don't like working on it.
 
Thanks for all the responses.

I've never heard of a Bilz tap holders, looks like a pretty cool unit. They may have been cheap at one time but fairly expensive now. The ER tap holders look pretty nice also, but limited in their use, looks like you would have to buy a few collets to cover the taps that I would be using and still not have the one I need next time.

I've started looking for a keyed chuck, I think all in all that would be the best way to go.
 
You can practically buy a 5 gallon bucket of Bilz stuff on eBay for $100-200. You could get by with a select few common sizes, since they fit the drive square on the tap. The clutches make them a conservative way to power tap, they will clutch out if there is a problem.
 
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