DRO or not?

This thread seems to have morphed into a discussion of ideal size for a lathe. My two cents, take it for what it's worth.

I used an Atlas/Craftsman 6 x18 lathe for forty years and it pretty well did everything I needed to do. At work, we bought a Grizzly G4000 which is a 9 x 19. and I was impressed with the quality and value enough that I decided to buy a Grizzly lathe for myself. Rather than buy the the 9 x 19, I pted for the 10 x 22 instead. The reasons being a larger bore and swing, greater range on threading , and larger motor for a relatively small increase in price. For my needs, there has seldom been a time when I would have wanted a 12 x lathe. My lathe is also located in a basement shop and space is precious there. I have an outside entrance as well and I could muscle a 12" lathe down but the extra foot in length and 600 lbs. in weight would have presented challenges.

The 9 x19 can use an AXA QCTP, barely. The 10 x 22 works OK with the AXA. Smaller lathes will probably require an OXA QCTP whuch ius non-standard. and more difficult to fnd tooling for. A 12 x lathe would most likely need a BXA QCTP. Tooling for a smaller lathe is less expensive. A smaller lathe has less power and rigidity but, as many on this forum can attest, they can still turn out some amazing work. In some ways, it is more challenging because you have to know your machine to get the best out of it. You can't just bull your way through.

Although any lathe can be dangerous, a smaller lather has less power and less potential to do serious harm. Electrical requirements for a small lathe are less demanding. An important consideration when setting up in existing space. A larger lathe will almost certainly require 240 volt service and possibly 3 phase. Operating costs will be less as well.

As to the choice of brand, I chose Grizzly because they seem to have a reasonable level of quality for the price. I have purchased a number of Grizzly machines over the past decade and although Chinese iron is considered a work in progress, very little of what I have done to the machnes has been correcting manufacturing deficiencies as opposed to imp4roving on design or adding features.

At the time I bought the machines, I was unaware of of PM and I wold have seriously considered them. I did look at Enco, Travers Tool, Wholesale Tool and Harbor Freight though. In my experience, Grizzly customer service has been good to excellent. For those reasons, they have my loyalty.
 
Thank you for that, Mr. Sakowski. Yes, this thread has morphed a bit. Perhaps I should open a new thread about brand and size choices but I'm sure that subject has been covered already elsewhere. I get the idea anyway. Larger is better I'm sure but my limitations will still be budget and space. I think I'm trying to decide between PM and Weiss at the moment. The Weiss seems better in some ways but offers less accessories included.

So let me ask this: If the choice were yours (anybody reading this) would you choose between a slightly better machine with less accessories or a slightly less, let's say...feature rich...model that comes with more accessories? The quality of manufacture being roughly equal. I'm talking about 4-jaw chucks, steady and follow rests, backing plates, QCTP etc.
 
If it were me I'd lean toward PM simply because of reputation. I see that the DRO-Pros Weiss machines look identical to the PM machines and highlight 100% American Spec. I'd say the PM machines are also 100% American spec.

Check out @Blondihacks as she has a 10x30 PM machine and seems to really like it.

She uses her PM 10x30 lots on her YT channel and recently did a video on buying an import lathe.
 
Thank you for that, Mr. Sakowski. Yes, this thread has morphed a bit. Perhaps I should open a new thread about brand and size choices but I'm sure that subject has been covered already elsewhere. I get the idea anyway. Larger is better I'm sure but my limitations will still be budget and space. I think I'm trying to decide between PM and Weiss at the moment. The Weiss seems better in some ways but offers less accessories included.

So let me ask this: If the choice were yours (anybody reading this) would you choose between a slightly better machine with less accessories or a slightly less, let's say...feature rich...model that comes with more accessories? The quality of manufacture being roughly equal. I'm talking about 4-jaw chucks, steady and follow rests, backing plates, QCTP etc.
Accessories can be added at any time. It is hard to add better.
 
It is fairly easy to put a value on accessories. Add them all up and subtract from the package price to get a base price. Then you can compare appples and apples. Then you can make a decision as to cost vs. value. Still not easy as you have intangibles to consider. In your conswideration, you may want to list features , including things like reputation and service record. This makes it a little more clear when you have to decide the worth of each.

I use this process for every major purchase. I tend to go middle of the road. Not the cheapest but also not top of the line where often times you pay for the badge. So far, it has worked for me.
 
For *me*, I don't feel the need for one on a lathe, but one on a mill is extremely useful.
 
Thank you for that, Mr. Sakowski. Yes, this thread has morphed a bit. Perhaps I should open a new thread about brand and size choices but I'm sure that subject has been covered already elsewhere. I get the idea anyway. Larger is better I'm sure but my limitations will still be budget and space. I think I'm trying to decide between PM and Weiss at the moment. The Weiss seems better in some ways but offers less accessories included.

So let me ask this: If the choice were yours (anybody reading this) would you choose between a slightly better machine with less accessories or a slightly less, let's say...feature rich...model that comes with more accessories? The quality of manufacture being roughly equal. I'm talking about 4-jaw chucks, steady and follow rests, backing plates, QCTP etc.

You can always buy exactly what you need down the road so it doesn't matter so much if it is included, but factor it into the cost. At a minimum you are going to want a 3 jaw and a large 4 jaw. Steadys are nice but seldom used and non essential IMO. Same goes for faceplates and dogs (unless you need these - you know who you are). QCTP can be purchased and added easily, as can a DRO. I'd be most concerned about getting the most "factory only" features you can (power cross feed, coolant pump and tray, machine weight & size, heavy duty base/stand, spindle bore, motor HP, metric and inch threading, thread dial, etc.)

My "Starter Pack" for a lathe would include:
  • 3 jaw chuck
  • larger 4 jaw chuck
  • live center
  • dead center
  • QCTP
  • Drill chuck and arbor
Bonus options would be
  • steady rests
  • faceplate
  • dogs
  • spindle center
  • DRO
  • coolant pump
  • 5C collet chuck
Even the minimum tooling can add a chunk to the lathe purchase. Keep this in mind.
 
One thing to consider the larger machines from PM for is the D1 chuck mount. I didn't think it would make a big difference for me, but after having it, it does.

The other big difference from the 10x to the 1127 or 1228 is that the ways are wider and more ridgid. That can make a big difference in performance.

I had a choice of 1030 well tooled, or 1127 with no extras. I went with the 1127 for those reasons. I got a decent tailstock drill chuck from Glacern, some HSS bits, and just added other things as I needed them.

For accessories like the follow and steady rest, it can be tricky. Getting them after the fact can be difficult as what places stock varies over time. There are some things that you really need those for. You can make them, if you have the right tools. I like knowing that I have some basic units available, and have used the follow rest.
 
keeena,

My buddies talked me into going for a championship last year so I could upgrade my amateur racing license to expert and race with them (they are all experts). So I did the CCS Lightweight Formula 40 and GT lights series in the Atlantic and Mid-Atlantic regions last year on a Suzuki SV650. I came away with second place in both regions in GTL and won both regions in Formula 40 as well as got track champion at NJ. The tracks are on the East Coast - CMP, VIR, Summit Point, NJMP. There are still some mods I want to do to the bike so the lathe would come in handy and give me small projects to practice on.

I do not have the space or budget for the 12X36.

Nice! SV is a solid bike. I have not ridden CMP or VIR. NJMP is a lot of fun...fast track. Do you ever do TDs up at Palmer or NYST? I attend those regularly.

Back OT: I wasn't suggesting 12x36 necessarily, just the general point that if your budget will allow for a smaller machine w/ DRO or larger w/o DRO: buy the latter.

Given the rest of the discussion: I'm going to say you'll end up with a PM 10x22/10x30, no DRO. It comes with chucks, steadys, etc... On top of that, you'll probably want to immediately get:
  • a insert turning set
  • a boring set
  • parting blade/TH
  • drill chuck for the tail stock
  • a live center
  • some HSS blanks*
*If you get HSS: you'll need a grinder or belt sander to shape/sharpen. There is a fantastic thread here about grinding HSS: H-M How to Grind...

That will give you more than enough to get into things. Eventually you'll find you might want threading tools, more QC TH, drills, etc...
 
Thanks Aaron. I really don't need a 12X36 or even the 11X29. Heck, I don't even need the 10X30. I'll probably only be making small parts like pommel nuts, screws/bolts, bushings etc. for a while. A 7X12 would likely get me by. But I'm looking at middle size machines for the quality/features, steadiness, parts/accessories availability. A larger machine would be overkill for me.

Does anyone have a link to the thread discussing the difference between Weiss and PM?

Personally I think the 10x22-ish size is a very nice size for the average tinkerer. Big enough to handle many projects, but not overwhelming to get into your shop, and relatively inexpensive. Everything gets more expensive as you go larger. I was starting to seriously look at the PM1022 myself when the 11x24 found its way to me.
I brought up larger in case you were not sure on size and basing your decision strictly on getting it into your shop. There are definite advantages to a larger lathe, but liabilities as well (mostly cost, weight and size). Similarly there are distinct advantages and disadvantages to buying used. There are a number of happy PM owners on this site, I don't know if we have any with a Weiss. PM is a supporter of the site, Matt and some of the employees do occasionally respond to technical questions here. They tend to stay out of which lathe to buy threads which is understandable.


Here is the post where Matt responded to the Weiss vs PM thing

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/mills-lathes-that-look-exactly-like-a-pm.82338/#post-717182
 
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