Thanks to everyone for your input. I've got some work to do so I can better understand the intricacies of CNC before making a decision. I'll let you know how it turns out.
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Considering CNC - What's Your Opinion
- Thread starter TomS
- Start date
Thanks to everyone for your input. I've got some work to do so I can better understand the intricacies of CNC before making a decision. I'll let you know how it turns out.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
- Messages
- 125
I would stay away from 2 axis machines. Far, far away. I bought a Tormach PCNC 1100 2 years ago and haven't regretted it for an instant,
I owned a real CNC shop for about 7 years. I had a FADAL 3016, a Haas TM1 with 5C rotary axis, and a heart attack.
I retired after the heart attack, but I just couldn't keep my hand out of the machine shop.
I had a couple of part time jobs, but I got laid off when the economy took a dump.
After about 3 years with nothing to do, I decided, screw it and I bought my Tormach. It has 18 inches of X axis travel, 9 1/2 inches of Y axis and 16 1/4 inches of Z. The problem with a knee mill with a retrofit control is most of them have 3.5 to 5 inches of Z travel, and I can almost guarantee you thet the firse job tou get will have a hole that is .500 deeper than the travel on your machine.
If you can do it, then by all means, do it. You won't regret it.
Steve
I owned a real CNC shop for about 7 years. I had a FADAL 3016, a Haas TM1 with 5C rotary axis, and a heart attack.
I retired after the heart attack, but I just couldn't keep my hand out of the machine shop.
I had a couple of part time jobs, but I got laid off when the economy took a dump.
After about 3 years with nothing to do, I decided, screw it and I bought my Tormach. It has 18 inches of X axis travel, 9 1/2 inches of Y axis and 16 1/4 inches of Z. The problem with a knee mill with a retrofit control is most of them have 3.5 to 5 inches of Z travel, and I can almost guarantee you thet the firse job tou get will have a hole that is .500 deeper than the travel on your machine.
If you can do it, then by all means, do it. You won't regret it.
Steve
Thanks for the support. I downloaded a trial version of BobCad V25 and Mach 3. I've struggled a bit with the CAD program but am learning every time I play with it. Tried simulating a simple milling part but keep getting the error message "operation not defined". Working on correcting this problem then will move on something more complex.
While I'd like to have a machine like a Tormach, my budget, and my financial advisor (aka wife), won't allow it. After reading input from others on this forum and other websites I am considering piecing together a package and converting my mill drill. I'll see where all this leads me.
Thanks again.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2013
- Messages
- 336
Sorry if I ramble and get off on a tangent that you're not interested in. I'm not a machinist by trade and still learning. I have always wanted a mill and when I finally got a small benchtop model, I realized how little I knew about the machining world. My thoughts after playing with the mill for a few weeks was "why in the world would someone want to sit here turning these handles and making all these measurements and adjustments if you could just hook up some electronics and motors and let it do by itself"? Well obviously knowing how CNC works doesn't mean I knew all the tricks of milling and machining.
I knew something about CNC from other hobby machines I had built but I knew little about machining with a mill. You have a big advantage, you know what processes need to be done. Making the computer/motors end of the CNC do it for you is much easier than you think. A solid background and understanding of manual machining would help tremendously for anyone getting into CNC machining. Like everything else, in the hobby and retrofit CNC world you can spend as much as you want. I know a lot of folks buy a small mill (grizzly, HF, LMS etc) and either purchase or build/assemble the CNC components or kits with great results. If I could do it (and I did), anyone can and I sincerely mean that. One of the most daunting tasks initally if you're not already familiar with CAD and CAM software is learning the software. Someone can show/teach you in a few hours what would take weeks by reading and trying to "figure it out". Find someone in your town that's willing to spend a little time to help you in person.
I bought a High Torque mini mill from the little machine shop and converted it to CNC. Cost directed my decision against a kit of any kind. I'm very happy with the results and avoided spending at least twice as much a retrofit kit/parts would have. In some cases what I used was as good or better than available kits offered. If you don't want to use your current drill/mill get a machine big enough machine to suit your expected needs, and with your manual machine knowledge, you should have no trouble building the motor mounts, bearing mounts, machining lead screws ends (if you have a lathe) etc for a machine. A 4 axis gecko controller (like the G540) is a great controller and fairly inexpensive. On the lower cost end, ball screws can be found on ebay from China that are fairly accurate and work well for many folks. Then of course it goes up from there. As you're probably already aware there are a few folks who offer partial kits to complete retrofits for small/mid size mills. I guess it's all a matter of how much money you want to spend and how much work building parts you want to do. For me I enjoyed making all the parts myself, it was part of the fun (and remember I had no prior mill experience). I know you said you'd rather not retrofit the machine you have, but I think you'll find doing so would be the most cost effective and rewarding route to take. I can guarantee you that (even if you make the parts yourself) what seems extremely confusing or out of your abilities now regarding CNC will all become clear and look MUCH less complex in just a short time. Especially the machine and controller aspects (even the controller software like Mach). The CAD and CAM software takes some folks a little more time to become proficient, but that applies if you have a complete CNC mill ready to run or assemble it yourself, and troubleshooting accuracy or other issues (and they will arise without a doubt) will be much easier if you know how all the CNC components are assembled and what they do. Just Do it! The complete retrofit kits that include the controller, motors, screws and software etc., would be the 2nd best route in my opinion. It'll cost a lot more, but will simplify things somewhat, but not as much as you may think. Sorry so long winded and best of luck no matter which route you take. If you enjoy machining, you'll have a blast with CNC machining!
I knew something about CNC from other hobby machines I had built but I knew little about machining with a mill. You have a big advantage, you know what processes need to be done. Making the computer/motors end of the CNC do it for you is much easier than you think. A solid background and understanding of manual machining would help tremendously for anyone getting into CNC machining. Like everything else, in the hobby and retrofit CNC world you can spend as much as you want. I know a lot of folks buy a small mill (grizzly, HF, LMS etc) and either purchase or build/assemble the CNC components or kits with great results. If I could do it (and I did), anyone can and I sincerely mean that. One of the most daunting tasks initally if you're not already familiar with CAD and CAM software is learning the software. Someone can show/teach you in a few hours what would take weeks by reading and trying to "figure it out". Find someone in your town that's willing to spend a little time to help you in person.
I bought a High Torque mini mill from the little machine shop and converted it to CNC. Cost directed my decision against a kit of any kind. I'm very happy with the results and avoided spending at least twice as much a retrofit kit/parts would have. In some cases what I used was as good or better than available kits offered. If you don't want to use your current drill/mill get a machine big enough machine to suit your expected needs, and with your manual machine knowledge, you should have no trouble building the motor mounts, bearing mounts, machining lead screws ends (if you have a lathe) etc for a machine. A 4 axis gecko controller (like the G540) is a great controller and fairly inexpensive. On the lower cost end, ball screws can be found on ebay from China that are fairly accurate and work well for many folks. Then of course it goes up from there. As you're probably already aware there are a few folks who offer partial kits to complete retrofits for small/mid size mills. I guess it's all a matter of how much money you want to spend and how much work building parts you want to do. For me I enjoyed making all the parts myself, it was part of the fun (and remember I had no prior mill experience). I know you said you'd rather not retrofit the machine you have, but I think you'll find doing so would be the most cost effective and rewarding route to take. I can guarantee you that (even if you make the parts yourself) what seems extremely confusing or out of your abilities now regarding CNC will all become clear and look MUCH less complex in just a short time. Especially the machine and controller aspects (even the controller software like Mach). The CAD and CAM software takes some folks a little more time to become proficient, but that applies if you have a complete CNC mill ready to run or assemble it yourself, and troubleshooting accuracy or other issues (and they will arise without a doubt) will be much easier if you know how all the CNC components are assembled and what they do. Just Do it! The complete retrofit kits that include the controller, motors, screws and software etc., would be the 2nd best route in my opinion. It'll cost a lot more, but will simplify things somewhat, but not as much as you may think. Sorry so long winded and best of luck no matter which route you take. If you enjoy machining, you'll have a blast with CNC machining!
Your response and those of others that took the timer to offer their advice is why I joined this forum. I've received nothing but positive feedback and support.
You are absolutely spot on about learning the CAD/CAM side of the equation. I'm very familiar with drawing and reading 2D blueprints but 3D has been more of a challenge than I anticipated. CAM has also been a steep learning curve. Haven't given up and learning every time I open the program.
I've been doing research on off-the-shelf mills, retrofit kits and individual components, and of course the X/Y cross slide set-up I mentioned in my original post. And I agree with you that the individual component route is the most cost effective way to go. Just don't have the confidence level yet to make the decision.
Thanks
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2012
- Messages
- 5,596
I totally understand the desire to "build your own" and realize there is no Right or Wrong answer on this matter (so please do not interpret this as being argumentative. -truly not meant that way). I've spent more time than I want to admit thinking about "Build or Buy", I'm falling on the "Buy" side of the fence this time. In my professional career, I've designed/built so many products, I couldn't begin to remember them all. I do know that each and every one had it's share of tough spots and rough going -and this is one time in my life where I'm looking for something that is as "turnkey" as possible. I roughly estimated it will take (conservatively) 2-3 weeks to research and select the components, 2-3 weeks to do the installation and another 2-3 weeks to get it all working. This is extremely short duration for the things I do professionally but, the difference is that I have to effectively work another 8 hours per day to keep up with my hobby... The plan is that with the hundreds of hours I don't spend researching components, assembling and debugging, I'll spend instead on learning CAM and controller software.
I've got the choice of machine in mind. I've got a fairly good handle on 3D CAD -and starting fairly soon, I'll refer back to this thread and start looking at all the CAM suggestions. I'm hoping to have the machine by the end of this year and when it arrives, I'm hoping I'll be making the first parts in a week or so. -And trust me, it's really hard for me not to daydream about his all day long...
Ray
I've got the choice of machine in mind. I've got a fairly good handle on 3D CAD -and starting fairly soon, I'll refer back to this thread and start looking at all the CAM suggestions. I'm hoping to have the machine by the end of this year and when it arrives, I'm hoping I'll be making the first parts in a week or so. -And trust me, it's really hard for me not to daydream about his all day long...
Ray