Cnc plasma

[Traian]

Hi there.
Wow this is so informational i have everything i need to know yes is enough, much appreciated you there for your time spending writing Jim,Ralph
Regardless Traian

 

[koenbro]

My own plasma table runs on Mach4 and uses a Texas Micro Circuits 3in1 THC on a Warp9 ESS.


WORKS VERY WELL


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[Traian]

Steppers - I'm using the StepperOnline NEMA34's to retrofit my mill. I've not run them yet, but, they appear to be rather good quality. I'm not impressed with the cable connections - those will be replaced - but otherwise I'm satisfied. More importantly, they have alarm outputs (for the E-stop circuit), and you can change the encoder count deviation alarm in the drives using their free software. Both of these features were mandatory (for me).

It really depends on what's easily available to you, but I'd shy away from the no-name Ebay stuff. The StepperOnline offerings are probably about the same as most Chinese ebay things, but at least they've paid to have different color drives and they have an actual web site with actual tech support. Small but meanful reasurrance (for me, anyway).

StepperOnline also offer a higher-specification series of steppers/drives that I suspect are genuine Leadshines (rebranded) if you want to spend more money. Those are creeping up on cheap servo prices and their Y-series (from your post) appear hit the sweet spot for performance vs. cost.

Belts - For the stationary belts I'd suggest AT5-30mm. It really depends on local (to you) availability, but the AT belt profile is better than common HTD for backlash. Real Gates GT2/3 belts 30mm wide are very expensive but are also good for positioning applications. If all you can get are HTD belts, fine. You can always have the drive pulleys hard-anodized for a few dollars to decrease the tooth to belt gap and reduce backlash.

3mm pitch belts are going to be very hard to find in 30mm wide, and 8mm pitch are too coarse. The drive pulley will be very large, which will require a greater than 5:1 primary reduction ratio - not practical with a compact belt drive. So the 5mm pitch hits the sweet spot using a 16T drive pulley and a 3:1 or 3.5:1 primary reduction. The 5mm-16T pulley is the smallest pitch diameter recommended by a few belt manufacturers for decent belt life. And use the largest possible idler pulleys to reduce back-bending stress - think 35-40mm.

For the primary drive HTD5M or AT5M, 20mm are plenty stiff. Get whatever your bank account can support - the AT pulleys are a bit pricy.

Gantry - depending on your desired cutting area (1.7m, right?), I'd get a 2m long, 75mm square aluminum tube, maybe 4-5mm wall thickness and use that as my primary gantry tube. The rails will be hot-rolled steel strips, 100mm wide x 3mm thick.

Don't get a big plate and have them cut out - you want the rolled/rounded edges that strip steel generally has. Drill & tap 6mm holes every 100mm near the top and bottom of the tube sides and bolt the steel strips on. The strips should have generously oversized holes to permit alignment/adjustment. This combination will be lighter and stiffer than using extrusions, and probably cheaper too. Just a bit more work drilling the holes.

Software - you can't go wrong with LinuxCNC, and the new(ish) THCAD torch height system looks spectacular. I don't have much personal experience with LinuxCNC, but I was very, very close to swapping to it for my mill rebuild. THCAD appears to be on par with high-dollar OEM THC's and the Neuron system.

I'm very happy with UCCNC for plasma (and milling) control. Very stable, and it has many built-in features specifically for plasma systems. I'm not a fan of Mach3, but it mostly works.

THC - The PriceCNC AVHC-10 is only available through Xtreme Plasma now. I believe they bought out PriceCNC earlier this year and while they will sell you an AVHC-10, Xtreme will not support the THC unless you purchase their machines. That said, I think it's the best stand-alone THC short of the Neuron.

The Neuron Lite is, quite frankly, awesome. Spectacular control of the torch, tons of features, extremely well integrated with UCCNC software. The downside is it's expensive. And you can't control the Z-axis except through the Neuron 'box' - UCCNC (or Mach3) is not connected to the Z-axis at all. Neuron 'owns' the Z-axis, so to speak. Makes for a very responsive torch height control, but you cannot use the Z-axis for anything else (router motor, laser, whatever). That was why the Neron didn't get used on the last build as we want to add a quick-change router spindle to the Z-axis.

The Proma is functional. It works, it's fairly cheap, it's better than nothing, and so far it's behaved properly on the machine I just finished.

Those are the ones I have personal experience with. There are other stand-alone THC's available, particularly in Europe, but you'll have to research those yourself.

Bottom line - For someone who wants to save some money and doesn't mind working a bunch of stuff out, I'd suggest LinuxCNC/THCAD.

For someone who wants it running as quickly as possible with as little fuss as possible, I'd suggest UCCNC/Neuron or UCCNC/Proma (if you need the Z-axis).

LinuxCNC is more capable than UCCNC (and UCCNC is more capable than Mach3), but LinuxCNC has a steeper learning curve.

Ok, that's enough. Go do some research and CAD modeling!

-Ralph
One thing get confused in you post about 16tooth pulley used for stationary drive between idling pulley?
and for ratio 3:1 is 20 tooth with 60tooth, I'm right? I found At5 belt planty here nothing about GT3 thanks

 

[macardoso]

Did not read the whole thread but wanted to write quickly, be very careful about buying servos from AliExpress. I spent two months helping a guy on another forum who bought some. We never go them working. The manual was 50% Chinese, 30% Russian, and 20% bad English (completely intermixed for no good reason). There was no software interface so everything needed to be done from the front panel buttons (ugh!). To top it off, the motor tuning was unstable out of the box and did not have an autotune. Tried hard to help him manually tune them and we never got it to work.

If you want servos, buy some with good manuals, good support, and a software interface. Delta, AB, DMM Tech, Clearpath, etc. are examples that come to mind.

 

[macardoso]

I run a CNC using Mach 4 + ESS + Allen Bradley Ultra 3000 servo drives. I love Mach 4 and the ESS.

Plasma creates a lot of EMI. Plan on spending extra for shielded cables and be very diligent about your electrical grounding or you probably will have issues.

If you buy the ESS, Warp9TD has absolutely excellent tech support for free on their forum. There is one guy, Andy, who answers on behalf of the company. He really knows his stuff and is often willing to help with the setup of Mach 4.

Don't go with Mach 3, it is no longer in development and nobody wants to help you if you are using it.

 

[koenbro]

Don't go with Mach 3, it is no longer in development and nobody wants to help you if you are using it.

Strongly agree with the recommendation for Mach 4 vs Mach3. Although you hear on the forums about many people who have sorted out the system with Mach 3 and it works for them [very happy for them] when you START you should start with Mach 4 which is in development and is being currently supported.


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[Traian]

Ok thanks guy something new to get searched, really appreciate your effort
At the moment I didn’t bought any drive motor servos or stepper, I scraped the idea about Chinese servos

 

[Traian]

Hi All
As a beginner and my first build, i have been search about everything i could find about what was pointed about all of you, probably will take long way to all information i need to understand,
mechanical part i never was scared to manufactured or understand even reading and watch, i can learn quick if i see and practice, maybe not relevant here, but the most scare things most the time was electrical and electronic staff,
Does out there is any book/online web where is posted all in,of cnc controller build component contain{parts}
when start to search for wire up ,what part list do i need to make all drive controlling
limit switch, home switch where to positioning them .
I will stick to nema34 8 NM kit including servo drive, but from there I'm kind of stack,
i know will use linuxcnc software but about hardware ?
PlasmaC, The integrated THC from using a Mesa THCAD10 this is for torch control.
when i looked in controller box been scare maybe asking wrong question and maybe in same time stupid,
I've seen some filters relays circuit board more than other driver control, power supplier etc.... hope understand the point
thanks

 

[spumco]

There's no one 'book' about this hobby-level CNC stuff - that book would be out-of-date as soon as it was written.

If you are set on LinuxCNC, then you'll likely want to use a Mesa card - but there are other options like Pico systems.

Your best bet - and the Mesa options are pretty intimidating - is to head over to the LinuxCNC forum and ask there what PC/Mesa card you want to go with the THCAD.

Have a list of all inputs & outputs you want to use (limit switches, drives, etc. All the 'stuff' you want to control or need information/signals from) and then count how many of these things you need. Also make sure to let the LinuxCNC folks know what drives you want to use because the signal 'type' used for those stepper drives - while pretty common - is not the only type of signal used to control other types of drives.

Here are the major components in the scary electrical box you have to build:

Mains power stuff (disconnect switch, breakers, distribution blocks, noise filter (maybe optional), line reactor (maybe optional), contactors (big relays for the drives).

DC power supply for stepper motors (big toroidal thing, converts mains AC to 48/60/72/whatever DC volts your drives need)

Drives (powered by big DC toroid)

DC Power supply for control system (generally 24vdc, but you may need additional voltages like 5v, or 12v depending on other components)

Relays (turn on/off AC or DC stuff. Like lights, pumps, etc. Usually uses 24vdc on the control side, and can switch AC or DC depending on the component you're turning on/off.) Relays are (hopefully) also part of the E-stop circuit so when you press the big red button you aren't relying on the computer to stop everything.

Control Board (Mesa thing. PC connects to this thing as well as the drives, limit switches, torch height switch(es), and other signal items).

Terminal blocks & other stuff. (terminal blocks help connect stuff outside the box to things inside the box, as well as combine signals/power wires).

That's all there is to it. Plus some wires, and maybe labels.

In the first photo below there is no control card/board, but all the other bits are there. This build has the controller mounted remote near the operator station (and away from the plasma noise and mains AC components. Note that not everything is connected - this was before it was installed on the machine so no external components have been connected yet.

The second photo is for a stepper-driven plasma system. Note that there are no servo drives, but there is a big transformer for the steppers. This one has the control board (UCCNC UC300ETH + UB1 BOB) and a Neuron THC in the same box.

See if you can spot all the items I listed above.

 

[Traian]

in special wires and labels.
Thanks for explain again. your control locks really detailed and you have Ac servo drive