CNC Mill Conversion Questions.

On that note, Im curious to know why you chose the stepper Z axis? Also, if steppers are use in velocity mode do they still retain ther holding torque when not in motion? That might be an advantage?

Many Thanks

Eddy

The primary consideration was cost and I have had experience setting these up this way. I also wanted a lot of torque at slow speed in a compact package. They still are a stepper motor with 100% holding torque.

The velocity mode is generated in the drive and thus does require a drive that will do that, most of the ones you find on ebay won't do that. The drive accepts a 0-5 volt command input from the Galil card, and then converts that internally to step and direction at 20,000 steps per revolution. You can program the Galil motor command signal to anything you want. When you get to that point, Karl or I can walk you through it.
 
Just a little teaser, here is a screen shot of the current version of my software. I just grabbed this of of my office computer so the Galil card is not configured for this software. This is a work in progress, every time I find a new feature I want when I'm running the machine, I just stop right in the middle of a job and make it work like I want.

DC_CNC ScreenShot.jpg

DC_CNC ScreenShot.jpg
 
Just a little teaser, here is a screen shot of the current version of my software. I just grabbed this of of my office computer so the Galil card is not configured for this software. This is a work in progress, every time I find a new feature I want when I'm running the machine, I just stop right in the middle of a job and make it work like I want.

Wow! That looks like a pretty well polished program you wrote, impressive. I will take you up on the offer of a copy, Many ManyThanks!!! I should have the PC sometime next week. Now I have to make a final decision on the motors...
 
Re: more cnc Q.

I'll only speak for Galil cards with my control, Camsoft. The Ethernet connection does not work as well as having the card right on the computer's PCI bus. I go with the HP/Compac because its plenty big enough to take the oversize Galil cards.

Ethernet may be fine for other uses with Galil.

Karl

EDIT, my bad, i just answered without reading above. sorry to mess up this thread.

Mods can you move it?

Karl,

I decided to take your advise and not go with the mini computer. it's not that doubted it would work, just that If it goes south, a replacement might be hard to find. I like your approach of using the same, readily available components to build the system. So I ordered a compact Dell desktop, Dual Core Pentium 3.4 GHz, 4/500 GB, Windows XP P. They seem to be in abundance on the Bay.

Many Thanks

Eddy
 
Re: more cnc Q.

Karl,
So I ordered a compact Dell desktop, Dual Core Pentium 3.4 GHz, 4/500 GB, Windows XP P. They seem to be in abundance on the Bay.

Many Thanks

Eddy

Good choice. Once you're up and running, i suggest you get another identical unit and clone it. Then it only takes a minute for a complete brain swap. You WILL have an issue where you suspect the computer.
 
Evening everyone. Awesome thread here! Just a few Qs if I may?
Outside of Mach3 or 4.
Q1: What else is there when trying to get closed loop performance with a PC component that plays well with the steppers and such. Drivers for Mach 3/4 seem hot or miss. Amen for Jim and his work on some software!

Q2: from Jim's post on an attempt with Mach 3. It seemed he is noting that mach3 and the controller do no play nice unless you can get into velocity mode. Is that what we're trying to solve here w all the new gear?

I am in the first 15-20% of a mill upgrade too? So I feel your pain in all the decisions and reading going on. Man this is Fun stuff though!

I just ripped out an 80s setup that Karl knows well! Bandit 3. I had DC servos already on so I elected to go with the Centroid controller and software. But I was really close to putting in the stepper setup!
For my small hobby mill I would love to review more of this type of closed loop micro stepper setups. Wow is the tech changing ever so fast.
 
Q1: What else is there when trying to get closed loop performance with a PC component that plays well with the steppers and such. Drivers for Mach 3/4 seem hot or miss. Amen for Jim and his work on some software!

Q2: from Jim's post on an attempt with Mach 3. It seemed he is noting that mach3 and the controller do no play nice unless you can get into velocity mode. Is that what we're trying to solve here w all the new gear?

Good questions. I will only address Mach3 here, I've had no experience with Mach4. Thank you for the kind words.

Using Mach3 with closed loop steppers might work OK, I have never had the opportunity to try it. IMHO that is still only a partial fix. The closed loop stepper motors will try their best to go where the program tells them to go, but the program still has no idea what the motors are actually doing. But still much better than an open loop (or more properly, no loop) Without error correcting feed back (servo loop, that is updated every few micro seconds) the system can not be accurate all the time.

I have found that real problems happen if you undersize the stepper motors or you are using the correct steppers and try to run at higher speed. If the motors lose pulses there is no way to compensate because the controller program has no idea what the motor is actually doing. I have not had this problem running at low speeds and low acceleration rates. There is one other factor and that is the Windows OS, if it decides to go do something else for a bit, Mach3 gets confused and loses its mind. The fact that ArtSoft can get their software to run on Windows at all is a testament to their creativity. In Mach3 have only used the standard parallel interface and the Galil plug-in. IMHO the gentleman who wrote the Galil plug-in made a tactical error in the architecture of the software. He tried to make a parallel port out of the Galil controller rather than letting it do the heavy lifting.


Mach3 won't work at all with steppers in velocity mode with out adding a motion controller of some kind and encoders because position feedback is required. There are a few motion controllers available that may be compatible with Mach3, at least their advertising indicates that they are, I have no personal experience with them.

In velocity mode, the stepper acts exactly like a servo motor under analog control, and the servo loop must be closed. Most stepper drives do not have the capability of operating in velocity mode. The analog input signal is converted to a bi-directional pulse train inside of the drive, normally in the 20,000 pulse per revolution range. The motion controller normally would not know it is running a stepper motor.
 
I did reach out to the MachMotion folks about their closed loop servo setups. They use a middleman controller as you suggested here. Called the Apollo III. I think it's more or less a MAch3 converter to Servo Drive setup. The Motors seem to be in charge of watching the feedback loop and getting the motor where it needs to be. Here is their reply on the unit: The servo drives are making the positioning corrections. The Apollo III is checking the feedback to verify that the drive got in position, but the drive is making the corrections.

The setups include the use of the AC servos w/ their unit, But Mach 3 has no way of getting that info back from the Controller.... They are simply DRO's. Nor did I see how you would get Linear Scales involved and into the loops either w/ Apollo III or Mach3 but I'm open if someone has thoughts or has done it. -I did not ask that specific question.
In the end it just seemed like trying to get tech press-fitted into MAch3 which is stepper based originally (from what I can tell) And then to add in w/ some Servo drivers& plug ins' to MAch3 seemed the wrong way to go for me personally. The son is 17 and I did want him to also use some Industry Standard setups. We love Mach3 on the Plasma and Hobby Mill. And I will get into Closed loop Stepper work at some point.... Just no time at present. That also was part of the decision process.
Just some low-end thoughts.

Oh, btw- before I forget- Then I found these guys:
https://www.teknic.com/model-info/CPM-SDSK-2321P-RLN/
They have a some cool tech but they did not seem to be out there in the market just yet?? Being a newb -Not sure of everyone in this closed loop and servo world! Here is a ref. they sent me to someone using the stuff.
http://youtu.be/oBGN7E8JBKE
 
Just another option,
I have two machines I have converted to Allen Bradley servo drives and 860 watt motors. These used A/C drives and motors are commonly found on e_bay for about the same price as new stepper units. They are bullet proof and built like a tank.

I was running a 2 1/2D program when the machine ran up against a hard stop. (my fault) I reset Mach and sent the machine back to 0,0,0. The machine went back to the original start location spot on.
No problems in over 4 years.

Ray
 
Just another option,
I have two machines I have converted to Allen Bradley servo drives and 860 watt motors. These used A/C drives and motors are commonly found on e_bay for about the same price as new stepper units. They are bullet proof and built like a tank.
Ray

I'm curious to know, What type machines & what size?
 
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