CME Tapping Head Collet Chuck Anybody?

[G-ManBart]

I'm needing to up my tapping game and was looking at this set from CME (they're local to me). The planned use would be on my Bridgeport mill.

The description says it's floating, and the look suggests it should have some sort of adjustment for torque. Has anybody used a system like this? I did try searches, and found a few threads about somewhat similar setups, but none are quite the same. I may just stop in and ask to take a look at them, and flip the the manual they show in the pictures, but if there's something I'm missing I wouldn't waste their time. It's obviously not auto-reversing, but I'm just looking to get reliable, straight threads, nothing fancy and nothing where I'll be in a hurry. They list them in both imperial and metric kits, and the collets are available separately so I could have both metric and imperial setups pretty reasonably.

3/4" shank tapping head collet chuck floating & 8 positive drive P-type adapters | eBay

<p>DESCRIPTION: The Best Quality on The Market----Sold A Lot of to Distributors to put on famous labels.</p><p>3/4" straight shank floatin tapping head,collet chuck TC312 with 8 sizes of positive drive P-type adapters.</p><p>Tension and compression style.</p><p>Quick change collet chuck...

www.ebay.com

 

[Chipper5783]

No doubt it would work fine - seems excessive on a manual machine.

Do you have any ER collet chucks? You can get tap collets for most of the ER sizes. I have an ER16 (goes up to 1/2”) tension compression/driver for the CNC mill (the machine manual says the machine will work out the z-travel / rpm perfectly and a T/C driver isn’t needed - seemed like good insurance to have a little axial give - it works great). It is called the Synchronizer.

I then got a plain MT2-ER16 driver for my drill press (set up for reversing with a foot switch through the VFD) - it is a killer for tapping, probably done a thousand holes, generally M3 and #8-32. Haven’t broken a tap yet.

I don’t think the tap collets are anything special, other than they will not slip, holds the round shank and the square - made for that tap size. A regular collet would probably be fine (haven’t tried it, why would I, I’ve got proper collets).

I think the real key for beautiful machine tapping is the correct tap (spiral point, spiral flute, or form tap, correct coating for the material you are tapping), buy the best you can get and toss them at the very first indication of any issue. Do not cheap out. If you look after a good tap, it will last a long time.

Save your money on the driver, use it to purchase good taps (for general purpose this and that, use a spiral flute. Spiral point is only for through holes.

 

[G-ManBart]

No doubt it would work fine - seems excessive on a manual machine.

Do you have any ER collet chucks? You can get tap collets for most of the ER sizes.

I don't have an ER collet chuck setup. I've looked at them multiple times, but I'm still using the R8 collets I got when I first bought the mill.

I didn't do the math, but it seemed like by the time I bought the ER collet holder and the collets for all the different tap sizes I'd need it would be in the ballpark of the system I linked above and lose the float function (not sure how much that matters).

I should have added that walking into CME and buying is usually cheaper than their eBay prices (which often have shipping included) and the guys there often give me a slight discount as a regular customer, so I'd probably be looking at $200 for the set above.

 

[Eddyde]

It looks like a decent set for the price. The floating feature could be handy. If has a torque adjustment it would be a great deal! Although, I think they would mention it?

I tap a lot on my mill, pretty much all of it except for the smallest or largest sizes. When I installed the VFD, I added an instant-reverse, pendant switch on a retractile cord. That way I can hold it in the same hand I use to operate the quill feed. My Torque adjustment is a bit primitive, I use a tap wrench, sans handle, held in the drill chuck. By now, I heave a feel for tightening the chuck to allow just enough slip, and rarely break a tap.

I agree with the advice on getting quality taps designed for machine use, they are a real game changer.

 

[Chipper5783]

Perhaps you could educate us on what the floating holder does on a manual machine?

I understand a tension/compression float holder for a CNC machine (the Z-axis movement has to coordinate very well to the spindle rotation). The head on my VMC probably weighs 500 pounds, has a 15hp motor - when driving a small tap any issue will just break the tap. A T/C holder is good insurance.

At present, how do you hold taps? Consider putting your money into an ER collet setup, useful for a number of tasks (i.e. holding odd size drills up close, holding taps) as a compliment to the R8 collets you already have.

 

[G-ManBart]

It looks like a decent set for the price. The floating feature could be handy. If has a torque adjustment it would be a great deal! Although, I think they would mention it?

I tap a lot on my mill, pretty much all of it except for the smallest or largest sizes. When I installed the VFD, I added an instant-reverse, pendant switch on a retractile cord. That way I can hold it in the same hand I use to operate the quill feed. My Torque adjustment is a bit primitive, I use a tap wrench, sans handle, held in the drill chuck. By now, I heave a feel for tightening the chuck to allow just enough slip, and rarely break a tap.

I agree with the advice on getting quality taps designed for machine use, they are a real game changer.

The torque feature possibility is what I was thinking to ask them about and/or look at the manual....they're pretty great about opening up boxes and letting me look at stuff.

I should have added that I'm adding quality taps as the projects come up and I need new sizes.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

It looks like a decent set for the price. The floating feature could be handy. If has a torque adjustment it would be a great deal! Although, I think they would mention it?

I tap a lot on my mill, pretty much all of it except for the smallest or largest sizes. When I installed the VFD, I added an instant-reverse, pendant switch on a retractile cord. That way I can hold it in the same hand I use to operate the quill feed. My Torque adjustment is a bit primitive, I use a tap wrench, sans handle, held in the drill chuck. By now, I heave a feel for tightening the chuck to allow just enough slip, and rarely break a tap.

I agree with the advice on getting quality taps designed for machine use, they are a real game changer.

Yeah, I don’t see the float feature necessary for power tapping in a mill. Drill press maybe.

The clutch feature might be nice, might not.

Ive power tapped down to a 2mm- something, and only snapped that one off as the momentum of the quill carried it to the bottom before I could fix myself.

Nothing would have saved me there, that was fully on me.

 

[G-ManBart]

Perhaps you could educate us on what the floating holder does on a manual machine?

I understand a tension/compression float holder for a CNC machine (the Z-axis movement has to coordinate very well to the spindle rotation). The head on my VMC probably weighs 500 pounds, has a 15hp motor - when driving a small tap any issue will just break the tap. A T/C holder is good insurance.

At present, how do you hold taps? Consider putting your money into an ER collet setup, useful for a number of tasks (i.e. holding odd size drills up close, holding taps) as a compliment to the R8 collets you already have.

It was actually Eddyde who said the float function might be handy...I just said the ER setup wouldn't have the float function and mentioned it might not even matter. I figured at the worst the float couldn't hurt, and maybe a slight benefit if the tap hits a hard spot, or something like that? Maybe not..some of this is why I'm asking the question

I'm using either a collet or a drill chuck to hold taps and while I've had mostly very good results, I've had a couple that didn't work very well. I feel like I'm getting to the point where my projects are complicated enough that after spending a lot of time on a part I don't want to trash it because I'm not really using the right tool for the job when tapping holes and I simply don't want to do it by hand with a spring guide, etc. I also don't want to tear up my drill chuck jaws, and the taps themselves as I buy new taps. I only get so many hours per day/week to work on stuff and if I can add a tool that makes something like tapping faster and more accurate without completely breaking the budget I'm okay with spending the money.

I've continued to look at ER systems and I think I'll wind up with one sooner or later. I'd have to go to at least ER32 because about 90% of the time I have a 3/4" carbide end mill in the BP. I was lucky and got a box of around 30 of them for $100 at an auction a while back...roughing, 4F, 5F, 6F etc...a really nice mix.

 

[Chipper5783]

What style taps are you using? How often do you find hard spots in the material you are using?

I have been using a solid ER holder on my drill press (with the reversing function described earlier), works great. A nice feature is that it is pretty short, minimizes overhang and doesn’t use up much head room (nice if you don’t have to move the table between drilling and tapping).

As far as random hard spots, in the majority of materials (mild steel, CrMo, aluminum, stainless) I can’t say I have ever encountered any “hard spots” - I have cut a lot of metal. Sure, some cast irons, hard surfaces or work hardening material will be hard (but that is a known thing and you can manage it).

Recommend you get the collet chuck, quality taps for power tapping, and a couple tap collets for the sizes you most commonly encounter (note the attached picture is misleading, to have a typical hand tap - straight flute - showing a tool used in power tapping). I think you can even get collets that incorporate an overload feature (though I have never used them). Using a sharp tap of the correct style, in a correct size & deapth of hole, properly lined up, suitably lubed and the chips managed is very, very unlikely to need an over torque feature. And you get really pretty threads.

If you follow a good procedure for tapping, that tool you mentioned won’t give better results. If you don’t follow a good procedure, that tool won’t turn a poor procedure into great results.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

It was actually Eddyde who said the float function might be handy...I just said the ER setup wouldn't have the float function and mentioned it might not even matter. I figured at the worst the float couldn't hurt, and maybe a slight benefit if the tap hits a hard spot, or something like that? Maybe not..some of this is why I'm asking the question

I'm using either a collet or a drill chuck to hold taps and while I've had mostly very good results, I've had a couple that didn't work very well. I feel like I'm getting to the point where my projects are complicated enough that after spending a lot of time on a part I don't want to trash it because I'm not really using the right tool for the job when tapping holes and I simply don't want to do it by hand with a spring guide, etc. I also don't want to tear up my drill chuck jaws, and the taps themselves as I buy new taps. I only get so many hours per day/week to work on stuff and if I can add a tool that makes something like tapping faster and more accurate without completely breaking the budget I'm okay with spending the money.

I've continued to look at ER systems and I think I'll wind up with one sooner or later. I'd have to go to at least ER32 because about 90% of the time I have a 3/4" carbide end mill in the BP. I was lucky and got a box of around 30 of them for $100 at an auction a while back...roughing, 4F, 5F, 6F etc...a really nice mix.

You're not going to get more accurate that holding the drill and tap with the same tool in the mill.

If you're concerned about breaking a tap in an expensive or detailed part you can use the machine to just start the tap, then break it off by hand like usual.

Or, plan out your order of operations so the sketchy parts come first and then if you booger it up you don't waste a lot of time before chucking it in the bin.