Carbide insert quality differences query

Depending on the feeds and speeds plus material. The plan truth is the fact is unless you
are pushing your feed and speeds then you will notice differences in inserts. Most home shop lathes or folks machining at home can make good work with the lesser expensive inserts. I have both high quality industrial grade carbide and the lesser grades from eBay. Amazon, and vendors like Bangood. I have had decent results with each.

However your mileage may vary


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I used to buy all of my inserts from eBay however I have recently switched to a reputable seller from the UK and I now go to them direct. They do cost more however I found that the Chinese ones were of variable quality. One box I would get would be top notch and would last every bit as well as the ones bought from one of the big name manufacturers and then the next would be utterly useless and chip or blunt on the first cut. Unfortunately there is no way of knowing until it is too late. It is for that reason that I only buy inserts from a trusted source.

You have also got to consider that for hobby use you are not getting through large quantities of inserts so while they may cost more it shouldn’t make them unaffordable given the life you will get from them.

I try to select cutting tools that have as many edges as possible. At the moment I am using WNMG inserts for the bulk of my external cutting so I get 6 cutting tips per insert which gives a relatively low price per cutting edge when compared to say a CCMT insert.
 
SamI said:
I used to buy all of my inserts from eBay however I have recently switched to a reputable seller from the UK and I now go to them direct. They do cost more however I found that the Chinese ones were of variable quality. One box I would get would be top notch and would last every bit as well as the ones bought from one of the big name manufacturers and then the next would be utterly useless and chip or blunt on the first cut. Unfortunately there is no way of knowing until it is too late. It is for that reason that I only buy inserts from a trusted source.

You have also got to consider that for hobby use you are not getting through large quantities of inserts so while they may cost more it shouldn’t make them unaffordable given the life you will get from them.

I try to select cutting tools that have as many edges as possible. At the moment I am using WNMG inserts for the bulk of my external cutting so I get 6 cutting tips per insert which gives a relatively low price per cutting edge when compared to say a CCMT insert.
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Good words. I’m a fan of CNMG inserts for the same reason just 2 less edges. At the risk of beating a dead horse. I even dovetailed large shank tools to fit my QCTP so I can use them


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jdedmon91 said:
At the risk of beating a dead horse. I even dovetailed large shank tools to fit my QCTP so I can use them
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That's a great idea - I've got a few 1" shank tools that I got as part of a job lot a while ago that I've been wondering what to do with. I was going to sell them on eBay (when I get round to it!) but now I think I'll hang on to them. My only concern would be tapping holes in them to fit the depth stop - I'd assume that they are hardened but I could be wrong.
 
Is the WNMG only used on a negative rake holder?
 
Yes, I believe so. The holder provides the clearance beneath the insert instead of the insert itself hence it can be flipped to provide three more cutting edges once the top ones have worn out.
 
SamI said:
That's a great idea - I've got a few 1" shank tools that I got as part of a job lot a while ago that I've been wondering what to do with. I was going to sell them on eBay (when I get round to it!) but now I think I'll hang on to them. My only concern would be tapping holes in them to fit the depth stop - I'd assume that they are hardened but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I’ve made a few videos on this this one covers the adjustment stud. I use 1/4 20 threaded rod and make my adjusters.
I hope this explains how I do it.


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I've encountered many counterfeit packs of inserts on eBay. In some cases, the inserts were switched within genuine packaging and other times, the whole deal (inserts, package and labeling) was fraudulent. Caveat Emptor.

There are many factories out there in the world making inserts. It's a lot like automotive oil filters. There are hundreds of factories making them on contract for the name-brand suppliers. In some cases, the factories sell their own brand which may, or may-not be as good as (or better) than the name-brand parts. You won't really know until you buy it and inspect it. In the case of carbide inserts, you won't know the quality until you use it.

For people who are not pushing the carbide very hard, the cheap stuff will probably do the trick in most cases. If you're pushing the carbide to it's published limits, you'll know in a heartbeat if you got substandard junk.

Ray

PS: Among the inserts coming from quality assured distributors of known, reliable manufacturers (Kennametal, Greenleaf, Mitsubishi, Kyocera etc), they all work pretty well. If the package gives rating and speed specs, they typically perform as expected. Most home applications with manual equipment can't push the carbide as hard as the specs will allow. In home applications with manual equipment, carbide breaks because of operator error and/or lack of rigidity.
 
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Ray C said:
I've encountered many counterfeit packs of inserts on eBay. In some cases, the inserts were switched within genuine packaging and other times, the whole deal (inserts, package and labeling) was fraudulent. Caveat Emptor.

There are many factories out there in the world making inserts. It's a lot like automotive oil filters. There are hundreds of factories making them on contract for the name-brand suppliers. In some cases, the factories sell their own brand which may, or may-not be as good as (or better) than the name-brand parts. You won't really know until you buy it and inspect it. In the case of carbide inserts, you won't know the quality until you use it.

For people who are not pushing the carbide very hard, the cheap stuff will probably do the trick in most cases. If you're pushing the carbide to it's published limits, you'll know in a heartbeat if you got substandard junk.

Ray

PS: Among the inserts coming from quality assured distributors of known, reliable manufacturers (Kennametal, Greenleaf, Mitsubishi, Kyocera etc), they all work pretty well. If the package gives rating and speed specs, they typically perform as expected. Most home applications with manual equipment can't push the carbide as hard as the specs will allow. In home applications with manual equipment, carbide breaks because of operator error and/or lack of rigidity.
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Ray could not said it any better myself. A perfect example if you watch YouTube video is ABom 79. Some of the cuts he takes on manual lathes are very aggressive but he never has the SFM up to those levels recommend by carbide manufacturers mainly because of the machine was not designed to run at those speeds.

Now for the rest of us with even smaller less rigid lathes we can’t even approach he the depth of cuts to stress the carbide so most of us won’t notice much difference in tool life




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I watched a video awhile back of Sandvik carbide insert manufacturing. With the expensive equipment required i'm surprised even the costly inserts are as cheap as they are.
 
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