Buying my first new lathe. Chinese or Chinese?

Both my 1340GT and 950V have PM DRO's (glass), and within the first 3-4 years, I've had to replace a reader on each (service was excellent). I consider myself a conservative spender, sometimes at the tactical and sometimes at the strategic level - situation dependent. In this case both machines have turned out to be very favorable purchases. However, now having learned more by experience, I would opt for magnetic DRO's.
 
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Only dreaming, but if possible, this would be my next lathe:


@MG&L : I have had both glass and mag scale DROs on my machines. All from DroPros. And have never had an issue with any of them. The dro (DroPro) I put on my old PM25 is 10 years old and has never had an issue (hope I didn't jinx myself here), and that is with two moves in pickup trucks. The last move was just recently from TN to AZ.

Just a FYI on the DROs, and just dreaming on the lathe. :)
 
I totally get it but it is a cost thing. You are easily 5k more just to get started and from what I understand A) PM will stand by the quality if there are any issues and B) I will in no way ever be good enough to see the differences between the 2.
I asked PM about those GT attachments but they said they would not work. I do find it odd they would not carry something for the other models.
I do wish I had a bit more wiring confidence as setting up a VFD with a DRO would be an unbelievable setup.
I had issues with my DRO on my new PM1236 and Precision Mathews took care of me. In the end I had a different DRO on my PM940V mill so since the issues were with the DRO on the lathe I chose to upgrade to the same DRO as the mill had and PM met me in the middle on the cost of the upgrade.
 
@Rufustoad There has been so much said already, and I've been too busy to get to this thread until now.

Gathering as much info as possible before buying is the absolutely right thing to do. In answer to your original question, and some of the subsequent thoughts: Choose a Vendor for support and service. Choose the machine for your best guess as to what it will be used for, I am personally in the 'buy a little bigger and better than you think you need" camp. All my work is in bigger stuff - I seldon turn anything less than 2" in diameter, and a milling job that is less than 20" long is rare for me. So I have all big machines, And also small machines, that I seldom use (and should sell off)!!

If you are playing the probability game, PM does a lot to help you get a good product, but I won't say they are perfect, but they seem to try a lot harder to make sure you are happy that any vendor I've dealt with. Grizzly has some very good products, but I think they are more 'corporate' and impersonal.

I don't know Eisen, nor have had any dealings with them, but people here mostly say good things about them also.


1) It does not appear that PM has a tapper attachment for these machines (still investigating) so does anyone know of another place to get this attachment that would work on a PM 1440 lathe or even better does anyone have some kind of plans to make one? 2) Do the DRO's that come with the PM machines read out accurately or is it advised to possibly see about upgrading to a different DRO?

1) Unless you need to do a lot of tapers, a taper attachment is unnecessary, fiddly and needs different skills to set up than basic lathe skills. In almost every case, a more versatile approach is to get a boring head that fits your tailstock, and use that to offset for tapers. They are easier to adjust for dialing a specific taper, but you need to take lighter cuts than with a taper attachment. And about $150 versus $750 helps. You have to use a ball centre if you choose to do the offset route. Using a Taper attachment means you can use a standard centre.

2) These days most any DRO will be far more accurate than using dials. You need to get one that has reliability as a key component. I've installed a bunch of DROs and VFDs - to get up and running, your are best off with a vendor installed unit in each case. I'm very comfortable installing my own, but there are a lot of guys starting out that need a lot of help getting them installed, so there's that.
 
Thanks Dabbler that is great information. I dont think I will have a great need for a taper but I always thought it would be a great option to have in your tool arsenal. I found these plans online that I think might be a great option and super easy to set up. https://www.hemingwaykits.com/HK176X I will be doing a lot of machining of 2" stuff so I really think I should be looking for a 2" bore but I guess that would not be a deal breaker.
I hate to sound like a complete fool but can someone tell me the difference between the glass and mag scale DROs? Is it an option to upgrade DRO's with PM?
 
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I hate to sound like a complete fool but can someone tell me the difference between the glass and mag scale DROs?

While much of the information on Wikipedia is ok and commonly provides a quick introduction to technologies, many times it is inaccurate or outdated. For example, in the above link it states that magnetic scales are much coarser (low resolution) than they currently are. My PM Mag DRO on my PM1440GT have 1 micron and 5 micron resolution which is similar to the best of the optical scales. Any higher resolution would essentially be useless.

There are three main sensor technologies for these digital linear scales: Optical, magnetic, and capacitive. There are other types, for shorter scales or less accurate scales. These three, in some broad sense, all use lines on a substrate which are effectively counted as the scale is moved. Hence, you can think of them as a ruler where one counts the rule lines. But they are usually more complex having multiple rule lines of different densities. Anyway, they are all relative distance scales, meaning that they measure from one point to another. They are not absolute scales as they do not retain an absolute starting point, origin. The technique for detecting the lines as the sensor is moved over the lines can differ and can be simple or complex for more accuracy. 1) Optical measurements essentially uses visible or near visible light which is sent through, or reflected from, the glass substrate for detecting the lines. For a course optical scale this could be this simple. For a higher accuracy scale this commonly monitors multiple lines at one time and produces interference patterns on a detector of multiple elements. The resolution is limited by the physics of the optical wave length but is sometimes extended by non-digital extrapolation techniques. One cannot easily measure optical patterns that are much smaller than the wavelength of the light. Visible light has a wave length of 0.5 microns or larger (deep blue light is about 0.450 microns while dark red is about 0.800 micron in wave length). Optical disk, like DVDs, use blue or near blue wave lengths and marks are molded into the disk. The spacing between the marks contains the data information. 2) Magnetic scales, also uses lines, but these lines are really magnetic patterns of the magnetized direction of the magnetic particles on a substrate. The sensors are either Hall effect or magneto resistive, and here again, can measure individual lines transitions or multiple. (Hall sensors, which have current flowing in them, yield a voltage based upon the magnetic field strength applied. Magneto-resistive sensors have a change in their resistance based upon the orientation of its magnetization. The orientation is sensitive to the magnetic field coming from the patterns on the magnetic DRO rule). This technology is similar to magnetic recording and the resolution is limited by how close the sensor can get to the magnetic particles. Very , very, roughly stated if the sensor is within 1 micron it can measure 1 micron spaced transitions in magnetization patterns. If it is closer it can measure smaller distances. In today's hard drives the sensor is place at extremely close proximity to the disk surface and transitions spacing as small as 0.01 microns are common. Far smaller than optical spots. Most dirt particles are huge compared to this so effectively no dirt is allow in the hard disk drive. At this scale roughness of the substrate is of great concern. However, the dirt and the physical geometry of a lathe DRO does not allow such close spacing. Likewise, the magnetic coating in a DRO is composed of magnetic particles in a plastic binder/tape so the thickness of this binder tends to limit the resolution if not the spacing between the surface and the sensor surface. This spacing is very much an engineering issue. A virtue of the magnetic DRO is that the length of the rule can easily be shortened by just cutting it off. 3) Capacitive sensors utilize metal electro patterns which on the surface of the DRO rule. These electrode patterns on the DRO rule play the role of the lines on the ruler. These are not usually used for lathe DRO's as the debris can short out the electrodes. The sensor is also a set of a counter electrode patterns that effectively must align with the DRO rule electrodes. AC Voltages are usually applied to the electrodes and the capacitance is constantly measure to see if is changing as the DRO sensor head is moved along the rule. However, this technology is commonly used in vernier calipers where the environment is both cleaner and shorter. (By the way, a similar capacitive effect is used in the devices used to sense and find the studs in a wall, i.e. "Stud Finder". Here, though, the change in the capacitance is use to the presence of the wood stud changing the dielectric constant of the material between two electrodes on the hand held device rather than a counter electrode.)

If you have a lot of money to spend (~$many thousands) you can get something called a heterodyned laser interferometer, for example invented by folks at Hewlett Packard/Agilent/Keysight Technology. These things have a resolution of 1 Angstrom. (10,000 Angstroms in micron). I have an old one of these, and while the laser and all of the optics still works the electronics have failed.

Each of these linear measurement systems represent old technology and so most of the fundamental patents are expired. Hence, anyone can built these devices that wants to do so. However, while it is far more difficult to search for, and read patents, the details of how these things function are usually better explained in the patent literature than on casual web sites. Patent are interesting beasts. Lawyers and inventors must write them in such a manner to teach how the technology works in order to be awarded a valid patent, but at the same time try not to divulge any more details than absolutely necessary to achieve their protection goal while keeping competitors at bay!

Dave L.
 
Like any product need to weigh out
Needs, expectations Quality and the accuracy you will need to a Price Point
The Used Machine popping up for sale around here are generally very old and need much work.
Or the opposite are in very good condition and have been over hauled and can be “expensive”

Im in the cant afford anything camp at the moment.

for used I would explore all the parts availability and support resources.

Be particularly weary of free or discounted lathes….
 
I found these plans online that I think might be a great option and super easy to set up.
Those are a cheap out for a taper But The distance between centers determines the angle, taper, that you end up with. If you change the position of the tailstock, or the stick out of the tailstock center, it changes the angle. You also must keep the offset device in the same horizontal position. Otherwise the taper machined changes.

Once a taper attachment is set to a particular angle it stays no matter if you change stock length, tail stock location etc. You have to be careful to take all the slack out of the system before the taper starts. Because MTs are very low angles even a small amount of slack takes a lot of travel to remove.
 
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