Buying A Genuine RF-45 eMachineTool.com?

[mksj]

I know a few people that have had both mills, either one will be rigid, I have not heard of any issues. I typically expect the Taiwanese machines to be built better, but the RF45 seems to have declined in quality. I also could not find anything on emachinetool.com, although they have been around for a while. They seem to be a clearing house for different machines, probably drop ship from the manufacturer. My main concern is support and parts should there be any issues. I had that problem with my last bench top mill, the company that sold it stopped carrying the model and the few parts I needed took many months to be delivered. The RF45 should be ok for parts. There was a period of time when Enco sold Rung Fu, and they could be purchased for much less, but now they are sold through companies like MSC at inflated prices.

Many of us have purchased machines from Precision Mathews, and they are top notch for service and parts. I have also heard positive reviews for Eisen, Acra and a few other primary distributors. Grizzly seems to be slipping a bit in the service and parts, but they do have a wide range of machines.I had looked at the Grizzly G0720R a long time ago as a heavier rigid mill, but at their current price (4K) I would go with the PM-833T which a number of HM forum members have purchased and seems like a quality mill.

It if getting tougher and more costly to get a decent machine these days, let alone service after the sale. If you do decide to get an RF-45, I would get pictures of the machines they are selling in advance of purchase. Another possibility is a smaller knee mill either used, or something like the PM-835. Space wise, a smaller knee might take up 25% more floor space then a 932, positive side is you save the cost of a stand.

 

[AndySomogyi]

I’ve found out some of the differences:



** Rong Fu RF-45 **

- more expensive, $2900 from eMachineTool.com
- weighs about 100 lbs more, likely thicker castings
- larger bolts, and more of them.
- 5 20mm bolts hold on the column
- rack and pinion instead of lead screw moves the head
- little known supplier



** Precision Matthews PM-933

- cheaper, $2200
- lighter, fewer ribbing in the castings
- smaller bolts, only 4 16mm bolts hold the column
- lead screw moves the head
- reputable company, Matt is a straight shooter.

Both seem to have less than stellar finishes, the the RF does appear to be made with better materials, and possibly less porous castings.

The big advantage with a lead screw is you can very accurately position the head, and easy to convert to ball screws for zero backlash, for plunge cuts and dead accurate head positioning. Can’t do that with the rack and pinion on the genuine RF. I can also convert the PM to 3D CNC, and I don’t think it’s possible to use the backlash prone rack and pinion for CNC.

The genuine RF has thicker castings and much larger bolts, so it’s going to be a more rigid and accurate machine.

So I just don’t know which one is a better choice. The PM-835 sure looks like a nice machine, but it’s getting out of my price range, and is a bit bigger.

 

[mksj]

Rung Fu RF-45 is 800 lbs w/o stand
PM-932 is 850 lbs w/o stand
PM-833T is 954 lbs w/o stand
PM-940 is around 1250 lbs w/o base

The bolt size is only a small factor, the column size, base, ribbing, material, etc. are all factors. I would contact members that have these mills and see what they say, in general they are quite rigid in this size category.

The killer thing on the RF-45 and PM-932 for me is the Y travel of only 8", the other travels are about the same between these two. Add a DRO or larger vise and it really becomes a limiting factor. Had that on my last mill (and that was with the DRO scale on the front of the table), and was always frustrated with the Y travel for this size machine. PM-833T Y travel is 11", the PM940 is 12", quite a bit more relative to the PM-932/RF-45, they also have more travel in the X and Z. If used manual, PM-8833T would be my first suggestion, otherwise for CNC (or manual) the PM-940 at the same price as the RF-45 and it also has a power head for the Z drive (a must for these size heads). I would look at the PM-940 (vs. the current RF-45) or save up for an PM-833T. Just my suggestion, I started out with a bench top mill (BF-30) and ended up with a full size knee.

If you are going CNC, then I would get a bare bones PM-932/940 since everything gets stripped out including the gearbox. You will need an automatic oilier, ball screws, new motor, belt drive, etc. a different animal/different cost level. Lots of CNC conversions with these mills, and some pretty impressive CNC machining. So strong support base for the conversion of this model.

 

[NortonDommi]

Have a look at CNCcookbook for some info and ideas on these mills. I have one and when I finally build new shed I intend to Epoxy Granite fill it. Perfectly adequate for my needs as is but I figure mass is always good in machines.
https://www.cnccookbook.com/epoxy-granite-cnc-machine-fill/

 

[AndySomogyi]

*Eventually* I will want to build my own CNC (including z axis control), but right now, I just want a usable manual mill so I can start making some parts.

My last mill was a mistake, a Grizzly G1005z, which was a complete pile of crap, really only suitable for aluminum. So I want to make sure I get something rigid enough to do some decent sized steel, but I’ve also got serious space limitations. I need to have everything on retractable wheels because I only have enough room to use one piece of equipment at a time.

I don’t know, should I shell out for an PM-833T? Currently I’m just making parts for me and my friends, but I’d like to turn this into an custom automotive design, engineering and fabrication business.

My day job is I’m a research scientist in bio-physics, but I don’t have a huge amount of interest in it, and building cars from the ground up has always been my passion.

And BTW, I learned to mill on a full-sized Bridgeport, my degree involved a lot of fabrication of laboratory equipment, and I my uncle was a machinist and I worked for him during high school, milling and turning.

Rung Fu RF-45 is 800 lbs w/o stand
PM-932 is 850 lbs w/o stand
PM-833T is 954 lbs w/o stand
PM-940 is around 1250 lbs w/o base

The bolt size is only a small factor, the column size, base, ribbing, material, etc. are all factors. I would contact members that have these mills and see what they say, in general they are quite rigid in this size category.

The killer thing on the RF-45 and PM-932 for me is the Y travel of only 8", the other travels are about the same between these two. Add a DRO or larger vise and it really becomes a limiting factor. Had that on my last mill (and that was with the DRO scale on the front of the table), and was always frustrated with the Y travel for this size machine. PM-833T Y travel is 11", the PM940 is 12", quite a bit more relative to the PM-932/RF-45, they also have more travel in the X and Z. If used manual, PM-8833T would be my first suggestion, otherwise for CNC (or manual) the PM-940 at the same price as the RF-45 and it also has a power head for the Z drive (a must for these size heads). I would look at the PM-940 (vs. the current RF-45) or save up for an PM-833T. Just my suggestion, I started out with a bench top mill (BF-30) and ended up with a full size knee.

If you are going CNC, then I would get a bare bones PM-932/940 since everything gets stripped out including the gearbox. You will need an automatic oilier, ball screws, new motor, belt drive, etc. a different animal/different cost level. Lots of CNC conversions with these mills, and some pretty impressive CNC machining. So strong support base for the conversion of this model.

 

[Cadillac STS]

If CNC retrofit is even a remote future possibility get one with a Z axis leadscrew.

Second to that key thing is to look into models that people have already converted to CNC and there is specific info on how to use that machine or maybe even a retrofit kit available.

That way you have the manual machine and know you have the hardware needed for later. And be able to keep an eye out over time to snag a part along the way if a deal shows up.

 

[Cooter Brown]

I went to my friends shop today and asked him how much he would pay for this machine, he said $600 max, when I told him how much they sell for he laughed at me... The motor has died twice and everything made of plastic has broken, the Z axis is very difficult to crank, it can't run an end mill larger than 1/2" and fly cutters pretty much don't work on anything ferrous...

 

[Downwindtracker2]

I guess I should do a bit of a write up using RF-45 . I'm a retired millwright, not a machinist, so in some ways I'm better qualified . A chunk of iron is a chunk of iron., Which is a way of saying engineering practices are pretty universal, whether it's a high speed paper machine or a wire drawing machine. Rong Fu made these to a price point. I love working on old Mercury outboards, it's like working on a Swiss watch, a RF-45 is no Swiss watch. But it's much better finished than say the Grizzly clones. I thought it was pretty decent when we got a RF-45 at work. The Grizzly showroom is just across the border, so I do get to look at their showroom examples and pick which parts I can use. At work they purchased a new Rf-45 in the mid '90. They got a mill with tooling for about the same price as rebuilt Bridgeport with outtooling. New over used. I'll come back to that. When I retired four years ago, I wanted an 8x32 mill. A baby Bridgeport or a RF-45 clone. The baby Bridgeport was out, it cost too much both in dollars and space. BTW I quoting prices in Canadian dollars. I saw only once a RF-45 clone for $1500, prepaid before importing price, retail generally was twice that. On CL I did see the round column RF-30 styles from $500 to $2000. A new King brand were about $1000, then. So when I saw on CL a 12x24 lathe and a RF-45 I jumped on them. I got the pair for $1750. I now had a machine shop. That was the only genuine RF-45 ever to show up on CL. I don't think I've ever even seen a clone . So that the back story on how I got one. We are not in an iron rich area.


The one I got was a good looking '01, but missing dials and the crank handle on the left side which I later found out secured the feed screw on that side. There was hole on the top of the column and the raising mechanism had been worked with. This suggested CNC . It lacked it's mag switch, as well. With Grizzly parts , it was up and working. This machine has paid for itself, how many hobby machines can you say that about them ? But it had issues from it's previous production life, wear in the center of it's dovetails and worn out nuts.. With a gearhead and a powerful motor there are no belts to slip , so under load I got shuddering and complaining . I call the mill the Drama Queen. This doesn't make for accuracy if you work her . And if I'm gentle , I'm thinking a sharp file might have been just as quick.

When someone suggests a used production machine like say a Bridgeport, I think they should also suggest a surface plate, straight edge, scrapers and a scraping class.

 

[NortonDommi]

The motor has died twice and everything made of plastic has broken, the Z axis is very difficult to crank, it can't run an end mill larger than 1/2" and fly cutters pretty much don't work on anything ferrous...

Sounds like your friend has a very bad case of Americanitice. I have a RF-45 clone and it handles a 20mm endmill with ease. Of the little plastic on it nothing has broken. For the price I think I got a bargain so do the millions of others who have them and with very little work transformed them into custom machines to suit their needs. They are a favorite choice for homebuilt CNC.
It seems you are biased against "chinesium" because of country of origin which is a blinder to many Americans. I think you would be flabbergasted at the products labeled 'Made in America' that are in reality "chinesium'. Under USA laws a product only has to be packaged in USA to be classed as 'Made in America'. Much of the larger items are brought in as sub-assemblies and merely bolted together and put in a box with a 'Made in America' sticker or printed on the packaging. Up to a few years ago your prized Hardly Makeitsons were 90% made in Japan, Italy, Korea, Britain and Germany. Kawasaki made most of the engine castings. Today having a bias based on perceived country of origin is not a smart idea.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

Norton, I think he was only talking about that model, which isn't even a good clone of the RF-45. You can tell the poor quality from just that grainy photo. It's that bad.