-
Welcome back Guest! Did you know you can mentor other members here at H-M? If not, please check out our Relaunch of Hobby Machinist Mentoring Program!
Atlas/Craftsman Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates (if applicable) For Database Entries
- Thread starter wa5cab
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 10,552
That's a nice looking restoration. And the spindle bearing journals look better than most. However, it is not a 10D. That would be an Atlas and a 10". And it would have the FWD-OFF-REV gearbox mounted to the bed in front of the headstock instead of the tumbler for that function.
It is either a late 101.07380 or an early 101.07381. And it must have shipped with the cast change gear cover because it has the cutout and tapped holes in the headstock for the motor switch and bezel.
We don't have any printed parts list for the 101.07380 and the one that we have for the 101.07381 shows the later legs and later tailstock. The catalog photo in the 1937 catalog shows the cast cover and early symmetrical legs but later tailstock. The 1936 catalog shows the sheet metal cover and the early tailstock that is cylindrical around the ram like yours. So what source document we have are inconclusive as far as which model to call it. I take it that the nameplate that should have been on the rear of the bed is missing.
It is either a late 101.07380 or an early 101.07381. And it must have shipped with the cast change gear cover because it has the cutout and tapped holes in the headstock for the motor switch and bezel.
We don't have any printed parts list for the 101.07380 and the one that we have for the 101.07381 shows the later legs and later tailstock. The catalog photo in the 1937 catalog shows the cast cover and early symmetrical legs but later tailstock. The 1936 catalog shows the sheet metal cover and the early tailstock that is cylindrical around the ram like yours. So what source document we have are inconclusive as far as which model to call it. I take it that the nameplate that should have been on the rear of the bed is missing.
When I had stripped the paint I searched for rivet holes where the plate should have been mounted, there was no sign of a mounting location for a plate. Unless they glued them at some point.?
A few castings "headstock and cover" had 10D raised lettering. Thats where my idea of the model came from.
As far as the babbit bearings go, they were only lightly worn, it was a bit of a relief to start a restore with a fairly clean set. Spindal does not have the thrust bearing, only the solid sleeve bushing and pin.
It also only has a one piece apron/saddle configuration and no auto cross feed. I have my switches all powered up, my rev,off,fwd switch wired in, and she runs flawless.
I still have not been able to cut anything due to the t-bolt's in my compound being pulled into the Zamak. I made some very long radial t-nuts to replace them. When my hardened studs arrive I will post a pic of the repair.
A few castings "headstock and cover" had 10D raised lettering. Thats where my idea of the model came from.
As far as the babbit bearings go, they were only lightly worn, it was a bit of a relief to start a restore with a fairly clean set. Spindal does not have the thrust bearing, only the solid sleeve bushing and pin.
It also only has a one piece apron/saddle configuration and no auto cross feed. I have my switches all powered up, my rev,off,fwd switch wired in, and she runs flawless.
I still have not been able to cut anything due to the t-bolt's in my compound being pulled into the Zamak. I made some very long radial t-nuts to replace them. When my hardened studs arrive I will post a pic of the repair.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 10,552
OK. 10, 10D and 10F are what could be called "model groups". 10A, B, C and E are specific models. The 10A, B and C were cut-down versions of the 10. The 10E was a cutdown or stripped down version of the 10D. The Craftsman 12" up until 1957 used all parts from the current version of the 10" except those parts that made them a 12". Beginning with the 101.07360, 101.07380 and 101.07400 (the 101.0740x group lagged behind the first two by 1 or 2 years. The 101.0736x group had no back gears. It and the 101.0738x group had babbit bearings. The 101.0740x group had Timken bearings. So your lathe is obviously in the 101.0738x group. Atlas appears to have introduced new version parts to the assembly line or lines when they became available more than on a specific date each year. So from what you have written about the headstock casting and change gear covers, the second version of the 10" and 12" headstocks must have shown up earlier than the second version of the change gear cover. And I do not know how they decided when to change the model numbers on the nameplates. It is really too bad that your nameplate is missing. We will probably never know whether your machine shipped as a 101.07380 or 101.07381. But given that is has the earlier version legs and tailstock, I think that I would opt for calling it a 101.07380
And in any case, only the 10F and the 101.07403 shipped with the two-piece carriage and power cross feed. All of the earlier models had one-piece carriages. That means up through 101.07363, 101.07383 and 101.07402.
On thing that should be mentioned is that when Atlas changed the change gear hub thickness from the same as the face thickness (3/8") to 1/2, they also changed slightly what gear tooth counts were used. and they pretty quickly ceased production of gears with the 3/8" hubs. And of the parts associated with the thinner gears. This is really no problem for most of the gears and all of the parts - you simply face off the later gears or parts either 1/16" per side pr 1/8" off of the length. But they didn't make any more of the 96 tooth gears. So treat them kindly.
And in any case, only the 10F and the 101.07403 shipped with the two-piece carriage and power cross feed. All of the earlier models had one-piece carriages. That means up through 101.07363, 101.07383 and 101.07402.
On thing that should be mentioned is that when Atlas changed the change gear hub thickness from the same as the face thickness (3/8") to 1/2, they also changed slightly what gear tooth counts were used. and they pretty quickly ceased production of gears with the 3/8" hubs. And of the parts associated with the thinner gears. This is really no problem for most of the gears and all of the parts - you simply face off the later gears or parts either 1/16" per side pr 1/8" off of the length. But they didn't make any more of the 96 tooth gears. So treat them kindly.
That was some pure knowledge that better helps me understand what machine I actually own. Thank you for the time it took to explain. As for the gears, I didn't even realize they have went to thicker ones. Good information!! I'm really glad I have picked this thing up, I really on need three parts to make it run like new again. I only need a feed shaft bearing assy for the screw at the tail end. Also the more modern upper and lower compound swivel made of iron with the two lock bolts instead of the t-slot lock down.
I have machined a few t-slot nuts to lock it down, but the slots are really buggered up in the zamak lower. Iv made some radius nuts 7/8" long to lock it in place. They only require a bit of the hole in the bottom to be opened up. But the slot is really in bad shape. I fear it will always be hard to move it. Other than that, I spent $80 bucks. On the lathe, $25 for new belts, about 40 hours on a wire wheel , $10 on stripper., $20 on paint. Not so bad so far. Plus between 100 and 200 in my future for the parts I spoke of before.
I have machined a few t-slot nuts to lock it down, but the slots are really buggered up in the zamak lower. Iv made some radius nuts 7/8" long to lock it in place. They only require a bit of the hole in the bottom to be opened up. But the slot is really in bad shape. I fear it will always be hard to move it. Other than that, I spent $80 bucks. On the lathe, $25 for new belts, about 40 hours on a wire wheel , $10 on stripper., $20 on paint. Not so bad so far. Plus between 100 and 200 in my future for the parts I spoke of before.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 10,552
OK. The later pintle cross slide and compound swivel and compound slide is a good upgrade in any case. It works far better. If you decide later that you want a milling attachment, neither one is usually cheap but the later one is far easier to find. Just get in the habit of keeping the compound (and milling attachment if you get one) level any time that you take it off of the cross slide. The almost automatic tendency will be to tilt the compound forward whereupon at least one of the 10-309 Pin will drop out and you will probably spend hours looking for it. The same is true of the milling attachment and the round table that also fits onto the cross slide.
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2021
- Messages
- 1
So I have an atlas 10D with vertical countershaft and a 36" bed. Serial number DT8410S. Has timken bearings and when I pulled the cones the 14125A has no "A". It only reads 14125. Also no numbers etched on the cones or caps just an "x" etched into the cones. Not sure if they are original but seem to be the cheap class 2 type. It has power cross feed but no power cross slide. Has the reversing gear box below the headstock and has what appears to be a square hole for the on/off switch although this one has the motor reversing switch instead. No idea what year as I got no info from seller. Assuming 1945 ish.
Attachments
![IMG_6524[1].JPG](/data/attachments/316/316956-da7eb34242b632f19b285f1024f8851e.jpg)
![IMG_6525[1].JPG](/data/attachments/316/316957-ea0309a4df1029a7ccb1f4e3f4878b86.jpg)
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 10,552
Thanks. The 10F was introduced probably in 1939, somewhere between S/N 008635 and 009552. Your machine was assembled sometime in 1938, probably mid-year.
I don[t know the differences between a 14125 and a 14125A but would guess only a relatively minor change that did not effect the size.
The only difference between a Class 2 and a Class 3 would be the guaranteed dimensions. Same as the difference between a Class 4 (which Timken claims never to have sold) and a Class 0. In other words, you can't tell the players apart without a program.
I don[t know the differences between a 14125 and a 14125A but would guess only a relatively minor change that did not effect the size.
The only difference between a Class 2 and a Class 3 would be the guaranteed dimensions. Same as the difference between a Class 4 (which Timken claims never to have sold) and a Class 0. In other words, you can't tell the players apart without a program.
Hi Robert,
Would pm you this info directly, but not sure how to do that. So, here's some data for the database. I have a 10" Atlas lathe QC54, serial number 000681, Timken bearing date: 3/7/47.
Dave
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 10,552
This thread is fine for reporting a machine. That's what it was originally started for.
In looking over the 9" and 10" serial numbers, it appears that except for a couple of anomalies that I doubt we will ever settle, Atlas had a serial number block for the 9" starting at probably 1 and another block for all of the 10" starting at 1 up until the first QC came out in late 1947, The first QC models started a new block presumably at 1 that ran up to around 005000, and then they merged the QC's into the block being used by the change gear 10F's at around 082395 in late 1950. From there on, they shared the same block up until 10" production ceased in mid 1957.
I will add here that they or Sears did not do that with the 3/8" bed 12". Every Sears model number had its own block starting presumably at 1. Only the 101.07403 and to a lesser extent the 101.07383 got up to fairly large serial numbers. So the serial number without a bearing date (Timken only) is usually of no help in ID'ing Craftsman model numbers.
To send me or anyone else a PM on H-M, simply hover the mouse pointer over the member's bolded User ID under his Avatar photo at the left of any of his posts in any thread, slide it up or down and click on Start conversation. To send a direct email, you must know one of their email addresses. I would give you one of mine but I am so far behind in reading my mail that I will likely never catch up. In any case, you will get a much quicker response from me to a PM.
In looking over the 9" and 10" serial numbers, it appears that except for a couple of anomalies that I doubt we will ever settle, Atlas had a serial number block for the 9" starting at probably 1 and another block for all of the 10" starting at 1 up until the first QC came out in late 1947, The first QC models started a new block presumably at 1 that ran up to around 005000, and then they merged the QC's into the block being used by the change gear 10F's at around 082395 in late 1950. From there on, they shared the same block up until 10" production ceased in mid 1957.
I will add here that they or Sears did not do that with the 3/8" bed 12". Every Sears model number had its own block starting presumably at 1. Only the 101.07403 and to a lesser extent the 101.07383 got up to fairly large serial numbers. So the serial number without a bearing date (Timken only) is usually of no help in ID'ing Craftsman model numbers.
To send me or anyone else a PM on H-M, simply hover the mouse pointer over the member's bolded User ID under his Avatar photo at the left of any of his posts in any thread, slide it up or down and click on Start conversation. To send a direct email, you must know one of their email addresses. I would give you one of mine but I am so far behind in reading my mail that I will likely never catch up. In any case, you will get a much quicker response from me to a PM.