Atlas 3996 for sale, thoughts?

[Nogoingback]

I've noticed over the past 6 months sellers on ebay and Craigslist have started to think that average Atlas lathes are worth $1500-2000, I'm even seeing the 6" models being listed at $1000+, $600+ with issues.
A year ago they were being listed for half that. I'm still seeing 9 to 12" Logans, Southbends, and Clausings at $900-1500 so I suspect, someone sold an Atlas, probably in great condition with lots of tooling for a price like that and now everybody with a dusty crusty Atlas in the garage thinks it is gold.

The wrong end of the state for you, but this (I'm guessing 10") Atlas has been on my local CL at $1400 for probably 3 months now.

https://mendocino.craigslist.org/tls/d/nice-4ft-bed-atlas-lathe-with/6757364731.html

We're getting some of that kind of thing here in the NW: it seems that asking prices have jumped a bit. Here's one for you guys -
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/tls/d/lathe/6769751179.html

There's a guy trying to get $5000.00 for an 11" Logan around here as well.

 

[BGHansen]

Don't know the market for equipment in CA, but in the Midwest there are plenty of options. Helps out buyers with plenty of options out there. I see 12 x 36 Atlas' with a QCGB offered for anywhere between $750 - $3000. I doubt the $3000 ones sell. The nice one in the Pittsburgh area for $750 is still available 4 days after the listing opened. I see 6" Atlas' in our area listed for around $600, but they don't sell at that price.

I usually track auctions and listings for stuff I might be interested in and see what it sells for. That's the current market price as long as the auction and/or listing was generally available. What I mean is correctly listed stuff. I used to collect Erector sets and would search on eBay for spellings like Erecter, Glibert (instead of Gilbert), etc. Came up with some pretty nice stuff that other guys didn't see because of the misspellings.

Anyway, given examples of the current market prices, I approach the seller with "I don't mean to insult you, but this is what the current market price is for XXXX. I'd be an owner at that price". If they aren't willing to budge, I give them my contact info and cordially walk away. Maybe part with a statement like, "Thanks for your time. I hope you can get your asking price for your sake, but if you have a change of heart, please call/email/text me". Doesn't work every time, but I've been successful. There are PLENTY of tools/equipment out there, no need to have buyer's remorse if the deal just isn't right. You've lived without it up until now and can continue on without it.

Bruce

Nashville area - $1000 ATLAS 12 x 36 with milling attachment
https://nashville.craigslist.org/for/d/craftsman-metal-wood-lathe/6728425609.html

Had to post this one in Lafayette, IN. "Fantastic" lathe. Note how much aluminum is sticking out of the chuck from an apparent test cut. Plus the power cords laying over the belts (though probably just from storage). I think it's "fantastic" that the ~2" round didn't get peeled out of the chuck.
https://tippecanoe.craigslist.org/tls/d/fantastic-metal-lathe/6769026280.html

 

[Aaron_W]

We're getting some of that kind of thing here in the NW: it seems that asking prices have jumped a bit. Here's one for you guys -
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/tls/d/lathe/6769751179.html

There's a guy trying to get $5000.00 for an 11" Logan around here as well.

While I know there are some who would pay a lot more for an old American machine, than any import, at these inflated prices they are competing with brand new machines. $5000 would buy a Taiwanese PM 12x36 with 2 axis DRO installed. A really clean example, well set up and provided with lots of tooling that might be a decent comparison, but they usually aren't.

The one for $3000 looks like an ok lathe, but the included "tooling" looks more like spare parts with a lot of duplicates. Maybe even the old broken parts left over from getting this one to run. Again at that price one could get a new 10x22" and have some money left over for some tooling.

 

[Nogoingback]

Don't know the market for equipment in CA, but in the Midwest there are plenty of options.

You guys in the upper Midwest and Northeast have it good. Except for SoCal, there never was much manufacturing on the Left Coast, and in
the Northwest all most none except for Boeing in Seattle. Around here it was mostly logging and agriculture. So there just isn't
much to choose from, and anything really decent is apparently made of gold. Atlases are more plentiful so they're usually cheaper, but
asking prices for anything better in hobbyist sizes have been climbing. All this seems to be true for other types of equipment as well.
But, I've noticed that a lot of it tends to hang out on CL for long periods of time.

 

[Aaron_W]

You guys in the upper Midwest and Northeast have it good. Except for SoCal, there never was much manufacturing on the Left Coast, and in
the Northwest all most none except for Boeing in Seattle. Around here it was mostly logging and agriculture. So there just isn't
much to choose from, and anything really decent is apparently made of gold. Atlases are more plentiful so they're usually cheaper, but
asking prices for anything better in hobbyist sizes have been climbing. All this seems to be true for other types of equipment as well.
But, I've noticed that a lot of it tends to hang out on CL for long periods of time.

The San Francisco Bay Area had a lot of manufacturing, ship yards, automotive and other into the 1960s. Oakland was once known as the Detroit of the West Coast.

You wouldn't know that today looking at what equipment is available.

 

[Nogoingback]

I grew up in the Bay Area, but when I was a kid that kind of stuff was going away, and some of it, like the shipyards were
given a boost during WWII and started winding down right after the war. My dad worked for Bethlehem and I remember going to one
of their last ship launchings. I was very young at the time, so that had to be almost 60 years ago. You're right, there was
manufacturing around there, but when compared to the scale of manufacturing in the Midwest, there's no comparison. And by the
time I got out of college, Silicon Valley was the big thing, and those companies didn't need a lot of machine tools.

 

[jdedmon91]

Over-all, although I wouldn't take this for mine, I think that a reasonable price for a bare 3996 (no accessories) is about $1200 +/-. Then add a flat $150 for each significant accessory (like spindle chuck, steady rest, QCTP with usual 5 holders, milling attachment, taper attachment, etc.) and $50 for each minor accessory (like carriage stop, dial indicator, TS chuck, live center, pile of cutters, etc.).

For reference, over the years it was in production (roughly late 1967 to March, 1981), the 101.28990 (Sears version of 3996) listed for $667 to $2299. As best I can recall, I paid about $2000 in January of 1981 for my 3996, plus about another $2000 by the end of the year for accessories.

The V-bed versus flat bed controversy is usually blown out of proportion. If the V-bed is hardened, then it matters. If it isn't, then by itself, it doesn't. The only issue that an unhardened flat bed has that an unhardened V-bed doesn't is wear on the rear of the rear way. Otherwise, in exactly the same service they both wear at about the same rate and the wear has the same consequences. And a re-grind of a V-bed versus a flat bed will normally be more expensive.

I too don’t understand the complaint about flat ways, if I could have found an Atlas or Craftsman when I upgraded to a bigger lathe I would have in a heartbeat. Most modern CNC lathes have flat ways and they handle heavy cuts without a problem. I call it the South Bend syndrome, they are so manny SB lathes in home shops that is why I think the prejudice against flat ways.


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[Aaron_W]

I grew up in the Bay Area, but when I was a kid that kind of stuff was going away, and some of it, like the shipyards were
given a boost during WWII and started winding down right after the war. My dad worked for Bethlehem and I remember going to one
of their last ship launchings. I was very young at the time, so that had to be almost 60 years ago. You're right, there was
manufacturing around there, but when compared to the scale of manufacturing in the Midwest, there's no comparison. And by the
time I got out of college, Silicon Valley was the big thing, and those companies didn't need a lot of machine tools.

It was mostly gone when I was growing up too, I mostly found out through an interest in history. Also while LA and the Bay Area are large, that is nothing compared to a whole region of the country that was heavily industrialized. I would also guess that a lot of shipyard equipment tends to be a bit large for a home shop even if you did find it.

Nice hobby lathe, I'll just tuck this thing in between the washing machine and the lawn mower.

 

[ARC-170]

Whenever I list anything for sale, I look to see what a new ones costs and list my used one for about half, plus or minus, depending on condition, desirability, rarity, etc. In my mind it's really not worth buying on CL or even Ebay for more than about half of what a new one costs, since there is no returns or warranty. Oh, sure Ebay has that, but you get negative feedback from some PO'd seller. I realize some things increase in value over time. I don't think these lathes are one of them. I think the high prices are due to a few sellers around here (SoCal) asking really high prices. I've talked to a few and they are really not motivated to sell: "I don't really need to sell it, but I don't use it/use it occasionally and thought I'd see what I could get", or they are selling it for a friend who doesn't know jack about machines and probably looked at the other over-priced listings and based his price on that. I've even mentioned what a new ones costs and they don't seem to care. The overpriced ones have sat for weeks! The ones that are priced right are gone in less than a week. The sellers need to post and then monitor what the competition is doing. I realize that might be a big deal for some, but it would help them see that they are asking too much. That said, they might get a sale, so what the heck!

 

[Aaron_W]

That is pretty much my view as well, 50-60% of new for something in very good condition unless I know the seller or it is a particularly expensive item where 70-75% still saves at least several hundred dollars and even then I'd have to feel really good about it.

Cheaper items I may not even go 50%. I bought one of those Harbor Freight 4x6 bandsaws last year, they are like $200 new with the coupon. I saw some people trying to sell them for $100-150, and that just wasn't enough savings to make it worth the risk of issues. I might have gone for one nearby for $50-75.

I think a lot of sellers have trouble understanding that what someone lists on ebay is often a lot different than what they actually get for it. I think there are also a lot of sellers just trolling for someone with deep pockets and lacking the patience to look for a good deal.