Atlas 10" lathe for sale, need some advice

[ARC-170]

Yes, we have a database in the Atlas/Craftsman/AA section of Downloads that lists 400+ Atlas or Craftsman lathes (from 1932 through early 1981, Atlas [now called Clausing] built all of the better lathes that Sears sold) plus mills, shapers and a few drill presses and band saws. But access to Downloads requires being a donor (any level from $10 per year up) because the necessary storage space is not free. However, S/N 022526 would have been made around January of 1941. Unfortunately, after buying Clausing and later renaming the company to Clausing, Atlas moved several times and all of their production history records were either lost or destroyed. So to approximately date one of them, we have to get by with the few that have had the bearing dates reported. At least, that gives the earliest date one could have been made.

In evaluating the wear (this applies to any machine, not just Atlas), there are two places to check, bed wear and lead screw wear. Many other places will also wear, but if these two are little worn or badly worn, so will be all of the other places. The two are bed wear and lead screw wear.

To measure bed wear, you will need a 0-1" and a 1-2" micrometer. First inspect the under surface of the front way near the right end of the bed for evidence of varnish buildup. Significant varnish buildup will be about the color of dark caramel. If present, first remove with a scrub pad and acetone (wear surgical gloves while doing this). Then measure the thickness of the front of the front way within a few inches of the right end of the bed. This should have originally been 0.375" +/- about 0.0005".Repeat the measurement at several points along the bed up to near the front of the chuck. The limit is probably about 0.010". Repeat with the rear of the front way, and the front and rear of the rear way. Then measure the width of the front and rear ways near the tailstock end of the bed and at several points between there and up near the chuck..

In Downloads in the Lathe Maintenance & Repair folder is a screed on the effect of tailstock height error on part diameter versus the nominal part diameter. The figures given are directly applicable to bed wear figures. Note that the effect of 0.010" vertical error on diameter error is negligible for diameters over about 1/2". Unfortunately, the effect of wear on the rear of the rear way is an error of double the wear.

To evaluate leadscrew wear, you need a dial indicator set up to measure movement of the carriage toward and away from the headstock. Move the tailstock and the carriage to near the right end of the bed and engage the half nuts (AKA split nuts). rock the carriage traverse handwheel back and fourth and note the difference between the two indicator readings. Disengage the half nuts and crack the carriage toward the headstock until the cutter is about an inch from being hit by the chuck jaws. Engage the half nuts, set up the indicator, and again note the difference in indicator readings as you rock the carriage back and forth. The difference between the two differences is the lead screw wear.

I'll add to this tomorrow.

Thanks so much for the info, I really appreciate it. I will use this when I look at the machines.
What is the tolerance for lead screw wear? What is an acceptable difference between the two differences?

 

[ARC-170]

Quick comment - the best two Atlas lathes made are the 12x36 Atlas 3996 and Craftsman 101.28990 made between late 1967 and March of 1981. Followed by the 12x24 Atlas 3995 and Craftsman 101.28980 made only up until about 1972. They are also the most expensive. In 1981, the 3996 cost almost $2000 with no accessories. They aren't much cheaper today. However, they don't lend themselves to rolling around. There were bench models of each, both with and without the QCGB, that would be better for that. And note that I wouldn't personally own or recommend any lathe that rolled around. But I also realize that for some people, it's that way or nothing.

Good to know, thanks! I'm beginning to think that I really need to find a place to set this machine and NOT have it roll around. I also see that the Atlas/Craftsman has exposed belts behind the headstock. I have kids and not a lot of space; seems like it would be good to have covered belts and pulley wheels.

 

[ARC-170]

Did you see this lathe? https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/d/craftsman-metal-lathe/6716642226.html
Warner Springs is out in the middle of nowhere in eastern San Diego County. Not many people will make that drive. This is most likely a lathe used as a hobby in someone's garage.

I did. It's about 3 hours away from me. I'm going to call and see what model it is and what it comes with.

Do you think that's a fair price? It's been up for almost a month, so the seller could be willing to deal. Or not! I guess I'll find out!

 

[mickri]

The seller has it in his garage and it is clean. Also the garage is clean too. Based on the cleanliness of everything in the pictures there is a good chance the lathe is in good condition. I paid $1200 for my craftsman 12x36. My lathe came with 8" 4 jaw, 6" 4 jaw, 6" 3 jaw, 5" 3 jaw, and a 3" 3 jaw chucks. A steady rest and follower rest. A milling attachment and a tool post grinder. A QCGB. A couple of face plates. Some jacobs drill chucks and a special jacobs chuck for holding armatures. Some dial indicators with magnetic bases, calipers, dead centers and just a bunch of other tooling. And a sturdy but somewhat ugly stand. My lathe was very dirty from being stored for a number of years and needed a thorough cleaning but had been lightly used and was otherwise in excellent condition. Based on what I paid for my lathe I don't think that $800 for the lathe in the ad is unrealistic as long as it is in good condition and has at least some tooling included. And being a 12" is a good thing. 12" is not too big to make smaller stuff yet big enough to make just about anything that might come up in a home shop.

 

[bill70j]

Do you think that's a fair price? It's been up for almost a month, so the seller could be willing to deal. Or not! I guess I'll find out!

Agree that $800 seems like a fair price.

I got my Atlas QC42 off Craig's List for $675. It is a 10" but does have the QCGB and came with 2 chucks, a steady, drive plate, a lantern style tool post and holders, plus some smaller stuff.

But it was filthy, hadn't been used in years, both chucks were frozen, it needed a cross slide screw and nut, and naturally the traverse case was broken.

 

[mickri]

A little off topic. Well a lot off topic. Bill, I have seen an ad on Craigslist selling all kinds of tooling in Los Osos. You wouldn't happen to know the seller. I get over to Morro Bay about once a month to check on my sailboat and to see my grandkids in Cambria. Have thought about seeing what he has for sale. I am always looking for something.

 

[bill70j]

A little off topic. Well a lot off topic. Bill, I have seen an ad on Craigslist selling all kinds of tooling in Los Osos. You wouldn't happen to know the seller. I get over to Morro Bay about once a month to check on my sailboat and to see my grandkids in Cambria. Have thought about seeing what he has for sale. I am always looking for something.

Mickri:

I have seen the ads, but have never gone over to see the guy, so don't know him.

But another Forum member "C-Bag" would probably know. He lives in Los Osos also.

Bill

 

[wa5cab]

ARC-170,

First, any belt driven multi-speed bench model lathe is going to have the motor and countershaft assembly mounted on the bench behind the bed. By about 1941, pretty much all of the Atlas-built 10" and 12" lathes, mills and shapers came from the factory with gear guards and belt covers. Unfortunately, all too many owners removed and tossed the covers and sometimes the guards. This is also true of the Logans/Wards and Clausings which were the primary competitors to Atlas.

The cabinet models, which Atlas only produced as a 12", could be said to have fixed this problem, especially with the very rare Atlas 12700 which had a wider cabinet with the two 4-step pulleys inside of it.

Back to the lead screw thread wear question, I made some measurements on my 3996. It is too bad that I didn't do this back 37 years ago right after I bought the machine. One of these days, I will replace the half nuts and will try to remember to repeat the tests at least at one end of the bed or the other.

I set up a dial indicator on a mag base with the indicator shaft parallel to the bed and lead screw. And temporarily mounted a wood block on the right front saddle wing for the indicator to register on. Near the right end of the bed in an area that I know hasn't been used on but two or maybe three jobs over the years, I got a carriage movement of about 0.032". Some of that is thread allowance, some of it is running clearance between the half nuts and guide, and some of it is wear on the half nuts and guide. Near the headstock, I got 0.041". So the amount that would be attributable to wear on the lead screw threads is 0.009". A little bit of it would be due to wear on the side of the threads that would wear while moving the carriage towards the tailstock. However, this wear I would guess is no more than 0.001", as I don't often drive the carriage toward the tailstock.

Unfortunately, I've never seen the subject discussed in print where any hard numbers were quoted. The two spots that I measured were about two feet apart. I have never cut threads near that length. And it's unlikely that you ever will either. Although I do have a spare lead screw that came from a machine that I happen to know would very seldom have had any need for the power feed (it came from a transformer manufacturer), I have no plans to swap lead screws any time soon. I have seen photos of lead screws where the Acme thread crests were noticably rounded on top. So if the wear is visible to the naked eye, replace the lead screw. If it isn't, don't worry about it.

 

[great white]

I know it's not a generally accepted thing, but I have my TH42 mounted on a wheeled cabinet.

But it's not just any cabinet you can pick up at the local hardware store. It's a "medical grade" one I found as surplus. It used to have some sort of diagnostic equipment on it, so it's very, very heavy and the wheels are very robust with very positive locks on them. You can't even move the cart with the locks on if you throw your weight at it. Most likely designed that way because of the medical equipment it used to carry and the standards it had to meet for use in a hospital.

Here's an old pic when i first bought the cart and the lathe had only been in my possession a few weeks:



That's also a couple houses ago as well. The lathe is just sitting on the cart in that pic. There's been lots of changes to it since then.

Still, cart mounted is not ideal. So I used a trick that I leaned was often used in ship borne machine shops or places where rigid and permanent mounting is not an option. Under the heavy steel top, I mounted a piece of steel I-beam. The lathe is attached through the top and to this beam. The lathe is leveled to the beam in it's normal position in my garage. The beam gives the cart even more mass and further stiffens the lathe mounting.

I regularly cut down to .0001 tolerance with it. If I take my time I can get .00005, but that takes a lot of care and attention and sometimes, ruined pieces. I've also rebuilt most of the lathe, so lot of the wear issues guys have to deal with on these old Atlas's isn't as much of a problem on mine. I mostly just make things for my motorsports projects with it, like spacers and such, so tolerances are often not as critical for me. I did recently make a transmission shaft adapter and I got the tolerance that i needed, it just took a lot of care and attention when I was turning the part.

I had to mount it on wheels because I was moved very often for work (military), usually every 2-3 years. So having it somewhat mobile was a necessity. I'm retiring in a few months and will likely build "screw down" solid feet for it, as it will almost never be moved after I retire.

I you have the option, permanent installations are preferred. But you can get away with cart mounting if that's your limitation. You just have to accept the limitations, find a way to work within them or do as much as you can to minimize those limitations.

For belt guards: if you don't like having the wheels and belts open, just fab up some sheet metal guards yourself. If you're an engineering teacher and have access to larger equipment at work, that should be a piece of cake.

cheers