Are Good Used Lathes Like Unicorns?

Every time this title comes up, I think about "Good, Fast, Cheap, pick two". Something like that applies to buying machinery also, just not sure exactly how it would be worded.
 
It's a lot harder to find decent used ones. Too many "flippers" on Ebay who buy them only to part them out and make a profit- great for the person who needs a part, not so good if you want a whole machine. And the machines themselves are often so old now that much of the precision is gone
-Mark
 
rabler said:
Every time this title comes up, I think about "Good, Fast, Cheap, pick two". Something like that applies to buying machinery also, just not sure exactly how it would be worded.
Click to expand...
Fair point. Kind of depends on your definition of cheap. Also depends on logistics. We had a lightly used, 3 year old 26x100-ish Taiwan-made industrial lathe come up on CL here Phoenix. 20 hp, about 6,000 lbs. MSRP $26K plus tooling. Selling for $12k because you realistically aren't going to place that in a home shop and industry has moved wholesale into CNC. At $12K the ROI probably makes sense. I consider that pretty much giving it away. I'd pay that much for a pristine and well tooled, 5 hp 16x40 in the same condition cuz it would be feasible in my shop. It's that sweet spot that's the unicorn I think.
 
To the OP, define "good." In the context of this thread, it seems to mean "ready to use without any repairs." In that context, I agree that there aren't very many used machines in ready-to-use condition. That said...

The context for getting a lathe/mill/whatever is at LEAST as important as the machine's condition, as is the buyer's intended use and time frame. Many of us are retired, with no urgent need to be instantly productive. Many of us like puttering around in the garage, and it doesn't matter what we're doing. In this case, buying a used machine that needs cleaning or repair is perfectly fine and is something that we look forward to. If you're in business and need a machine for the production line, it's a completely different answer. It's all about what you want/need as for what's acceptable.

For me, buying a 30-yr old Takisawa 14x30" lathe that was both dirty and in need of a new cross-feed screw and bushing was fine because I wasn't in a hurry. With some work, I ended up with something that cost $16,000 when new, and count myself lucky to have found it so close to home.
 
Last edited:
I'm in the "buy what you can use right away, and start setting aside cash for the unicorn" camp. Here's my story:

Back in '82, (gosh this sounds like a western queue the spaghetti western music) I decided I wanted back into machining. I got advice from a toolmaker friend and researched what I could (no internet back then). I bought a Taiwanese 12X37 and used it and learned on it for 35 years... But I dislike threaded spindles, and it was a little light for doing parting and turning large stock. (I've done work bigger than 5" in diameter on it).

I lusted after my friend's LeBlond 15X60 starting about that time, but he told me I'd never be able to buy it from him. So 4 years ago I bought a nice-but-abused, 5 year old 14X40 with a D1-4 camlock, taper attachment. A a particularly popular lathe in our town (1M people). After dismantling it and finding dozens of things to fix (My 12X37 was still in perfect condition) I began repairing the 14X40. After sinking 200 hours and another 500 bucks in parts, and it still not working...

My friend found out that his 15X60 Leblond, still in showroom condition with less than 100 hours on it was worthless because it was in his basement. Because I have heavy moving experience, and because the mover he called in for a quote said 10,000$ to move it up the stairs, he sold it to me for a song, providing I moved it out of his basement.

if you are curious the whole move story can be found at
Forums\THE PROJECTS AREA\MODERATOR PROJECTS\DABBLER\Moving big equipment out of a basement...

So I have 2 not-yet-working lathes and still making things on the 12X37, 1 year and 4 months after the move. Very Soon Now I'll have the Leblond working and I can sell the other lathes - the 12X37 is presold already.

Sometimes it takes patience and a little luck to get that unicorn...
 
Not so much Unicorn, as Princess Sparkle Pony. KB above put it pretty well, if it weren't broke, I wouldn't have anything to fix. You just have to watch the ratio of broke to fixed. Mike
 
www.hobby-machinist.com

Moving big equipment out of a basement...

Last year I bought most of the machines from a guy's basement machine shop. I also agreed to clear his basement of all machines, by taking them up the stairs. I thought I'd post a few highlights of that move, and answer questions about moving heavy equipment... These are the machines I moved...
www.hobby-machinist.com www.hobby-machinist.com
 
I guess it all depends on how long you want to wait, and what is an acceptable condition. If you are using it to generate income, then time is money and if something breaks and you can't get replacement parts you are toast. If you have a big old machine, they are often hard to sell, individuals are typically not looking for a 6000 lb machine, and businesses are looking at newer and often CNC type machines. The era of good used iron is drying up, mostly because industry for the most part no longer uses regular mills and lathes. Machine shops that are closing or selling off machines have often had a hard life an no longer meet specs. When I looked at knee mills in the Tucson area about 8 years ago, they were pretty beaten up and cost difference with a new machine just didn't make sense to go used. Also parts were an issue and very costly. I was more interested in using my machines.

As far as lathe, my recommendation is going with a 1640TL and do a basic VFD install. You will get much better longevity and the resale value if you decide to go CNC, although I still think there is a role for manual. I have the ERL-1340, have also used the 1640 model and they are killer lathes, very good quality and solid.
 
mksj said:
I guess it all depends on how long you want to wait, and what is an acceptable condition. If you are using it to generate income, then time is money and if something breaks and you can't get replacement parts you are toast. If you have a big old machine, they are often hard to sell, individuals are typically not looking for a 6000 lb machine, and businesses are looking at newer and often CNC type machines. The era of good used iron is drying up, mostly because industry for the most part no longer uses regular mills and lathes. Machine shops that are closing or selling off machines have often had a hard life an no longer meet specs. When I looked at knee mills in the Tucson area about 8 years ago, they were pretty beaten up and cost difference with a new machine just didn't make sense to go used. Also parts were an issue and very costly. I was more interested in using my machines.

As far as lathe, my recommendation is going with a 1640TL and do a basic VFD install. You will get much better longevity and the resale value if you decide to go CNC, although I still think there is a role for manual. I have the ERL-1340, have also used the 1640 model and they are killer lathes, very good quality and solid.
Click to expand...

+1 on the PM-1640TL. My 1660TL is the best purchase of anything in my entire life, hands down.
 
I agree with mksj.

Using the 40 odd year old LeBlond lathe is a lot like driving a vintage car. I'll baby it because I'd have to make any replacement parts. Even so, it is the most accurate lathe I've seen and several guys in my group have bought high end Japanese toolmaking lathes. They have similar accuracy, but not the rigidity.

For a guy that wants to just get the job done and can afford brand new the 1640 is the perfect choice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top