Any user feedback about recent experiences with the Precision Matthews PM-1022V lathe?

cneuor

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I’m a novice machinist, and while waiting for my PM-1022V lathe to arrive, I’ve been researching its potential issues. A 2017 review raised concerns about the machine’s cross-slide travel, digital tachometer precision, and power in the upper RPM range. The review mentioned that switching change gears is necessary to access the upper RPMs—can anyone confirm this? It also stated that the lathe lacks enough power at higher RPMs to use carbide tools, limiting it to high-speed steel tools.

For those with recent experience, what challenges have you encountered, and are these concerns still relevant?

Thanks for your input!
 
I'm responding to this post rather than the others that led this one, but some of my answer are in response to questions asked in the other posts just to keep my thoughts in one place.

I've ended up with mostly vintage machinery, but I'm a chronic overthinker and am very prone to analysis paralysis. I watch my spending closely and really hate spending money and then finding out I bought the wrong thing so I went down many rabbit holes in choosing my machines. I've looked at a lot of machines in the 9" and 10" sizes.

I personally think 10x22 (ish) is a very practical size for many home shop hobbyists, but I've also come to appreciate there is no one size fits all. My "big" lathe is an 11x24, and I do the majority of my work on a little 3-1/2x17" lathe (one of the few I have that was bought new).

I wonder if there is a better machine of the same size that is in the same price range.

Most small lathes make compromises.

A Hardinge HLV is an 11x18" lathe so by size is of similar capacity to the PM1022, however it requires 240v 3 phase power for its 3hp motor, weighs 1700lbs and has a (new) price tag in excess of $40,000. If you want to call them compromises, Hardinge chose to blow out weight and price to ensure their lathe offered the desired rigidity and power for the needs of their intended customers.


In the real world most of us live in an HLV is not a realistic option.

It has been awhile since I saw the Blondihacks video where she talks about her machines, but as I recall that was more about her pointing out the weaknesses of her 1022, the areas she has to work around. Most are the result of tradeoffs in the design rather than actual flaws to be corrected.

Clough 42 has a Grizzly G0602 which is a major competitor to the PM1022. He also has a video explaining his choices (he admits he would love a Hardinge HLV but that isn't an option for him). He specifically talks about why he chose the Grizzly over the PM1022.

His comments on the G0602 start around 8:20. He gives some well articulated reasoning, which work for him, but it isn't a "better". There are advantages to the G0602, and there are advantages to the PM1022, the G0602 was a better lathe for him. He has also put a lot of work into his lathe, it is far from stock.


He also makes some comments about why the 10x22 is a good size for a home shop lathe, but it is specifically based on the work he does.

Grizzly offers several lathes in this size, the G0752 is basically the G0602 with variable speed instead of changing belts. There are also the G0602Z and G0752Z which adds a DRO to the respective machines.

Not said is while both are listed as 10x22 lathes neither of these lathes is a true 10" swing, the PM1022 has an actual swing of 9.84", and the Grizzly lathes have a slightly smaller actual swing of 9.5".

Weiss sells the WBL250F which is similar to the PM1022, being of the same size and weight, power cross feed, and variable speed, but with a 1.5hp motor, and a higher price at $3800.


Digression for a small rant
On a side not both he and Blondihacks are rather dismissive of lathes smaller than 10x22 which as a person who does the vast majority of my work on a 3-1/2" swing lathe I find kind of annoying. I really wish they would just say a smaller lathe doesn't meet their needs and leave it at that instead of spreading the common misinformation about "mini-lathes".


The other popular option for a lathe of similar size / budget to the 10x22 lathes are going to the used market and finding a vintage lathe. There are some definite plusses to this, #1 many of the machines were just better, better made, and with more available features. Number 2, you can frequently buy a used lathe in good shape with more tooling, than the cost of new even compared to the relatively modest prices of most 10x22 lathes.

There isn't a lot of debate to the older machines being better, these older machines cost a lot more when new, so they should be better machines. As an example a South Bend 10K Model B (change gears and power cross feed) 10x22 lathe is a pretty good match to the PM1022 in size and features. In 1963 this lathe cost $521, or about $5400 when adjusted for inflation. The Model A which added a quick change gear box cost $609 or about $6200 in 2024.

The down side to vintage machines is they are used, most being 50+ years old. That is 50 years of wear, potential abuse and neglect. With care and some experience you can weed out the hopeless cases, but you can expect to put some amount of effort into fixing them up. There is also the fact that finding a quality used machine is a chore in itself. Finding "the one" can be an Easter Egg hunt. Some of us enjoy the hunt and the work bringing an old machine back to good condition, some don't. There are already some good reasons to by new, but if hunting old machines and spending months cleaning and repairing them doesn't sound fun that is another very good reason to buy new.

The older machines are also often bigger and heavier even when they are nominally of the same size. Going back to the South Bend 10K, it weighs a good 100lbs more than the PM1022, and is significantly deeper (about 36" vs 22") because of the rear mounted motor and counter shaft.


It also stated that the lathe lacks enough power at higher RPMs to use carbide tools, limiting it to high-speed steel tools.

This is true of most small lathes, even some bigger than the PM1022.

Until you get into machines weighing 1000lbs+ high speed steel is recommended. You can use carbide on smaller machines, there are people using carbide tooling on 7" mini-lathes.

It is not so much that you can't use carbide, as you don't receive much benefit from using carbide because the machines lack the power and weight to take full advantage of carbide tooling.

The other side of that is well ground, sharp HSS can make a huge difference on a small machine and even out perform carbide (on a small machine) allowing them to make much heavier cuts than would be expected.

The critical part is well ground, sharp tooling. That is a skill that has to be learned, so many people prefer to use carbide because you can buy insert tooling and skip the learn to grind tooling stage, but then you are also limiting your machines full potential.

I have some carbide tooling that I use with my 11" lathe. I use them on materials like cast iron which is notorious for quickly dulling HSS tooling. There is a great thread here on learning to grind HSS.
 
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On a side not both he and Blondihacks are rather dismissive of lathes smaller than 10x22 which as a person who does the vast majority of my work on a 3-1/2" swing lathe I find kind of annoying. I really wish they would just say a smaller lathe doesn't meet their needs and leave it at that instead of spreading the common misinformation about "mini-lathes".
(Apologies to @cneuor for continuting the digression; I'll post another actual on-topic reply to balance this one out!:oops:)

Eh, they all do it.

To be fair to BlondiHacks and Clough42 and the others, they all clearly had the financial wherewithal and space to go that step up and once they did it, had no real personal need to do any further research, or go the route of taking one of the smaller Chinese lathes and performing the required fettling, adjustments and upgrades to wring the potential out of it.

I've said before on here, I'd love to see one of the more experienced, well-known and respected YouTubers do a "Just how much can I get out of this Chinese 7x?" series.

I say one of the well respected YouTubers because whilst there are a chunk of "sorting out a Chinese mini-lathe" videos, they're mostly done by people who don't have a pedigree. Either beginners who are still in the early stage of their machining journey or by for example, by "We can make that better" who does seem to have the chops but seems to only have experience with Proxxon kit).

ToT did a couple of videos (mostly with a slight smirk on his lips:grin:) but that petered out. I got in touch with him to suggest that he go balls-out on it and as is his wont, he sent me a really friendly, warm and funny response but it was a "thanks but no thanks". BlondiHacks response was similar.

Fair play though, they have other stuff to do. Making a good quality YouTube video takes time and effort and making a series like I'd like to see has a serious opportunity cost (not to mention the financial cost of the mini lathe in the first place). I can hardly blame them for not wanting to satisfy my entirely idle desire to see a set of videos from an authoritative source about what's possible with skill, experience of 'proper' machine tools and a Chinese 7x. :big grin:

With the exception of ToT (despite the smirk that you can clearly hear in his voice, he is scrupulously fair, and he's too funny and good-willed to blame) though, I do slightly judge these YouTube 'faces' for speaking when they should remain silent and consequently providing lower quality/partial information about the Chinese mini lathes.
 
I’m a novice machinist, and while waiting for my PM-1022V lathe to arrive, I’ve been researching its potential issues. A 2017 review raised concerns about the machine’s cross-slide travel, digital tachometer precision, and power in the upper RPM range. The review mentioned that switching change gears is necessary to access the upper RPMs—can anyone confirm this? It also stated that the lathe lacks enough power at higher RPMs to use carbide tools, limiting it to high-speed steel tools.

For those with recent experience, what challenges have you encountered, and are these concerns still relevant?

Thanks for your input!
I am, like you, a very novice machinist. I have actually, through ignorance and impatience, taken on the task of turning a Chinese 7x into a useful machine (I should have looked at the prices used 'old English Iron' lathes sell for on eBay, rather than what the price the sellers were asking for).

I've now had a chance to try out a Myford ML7 and a Boxford A model and the difference between my little 7x (even with the improvements I've made) and those older, more capable but still relatively small (7x20 and 10 x 22 for the Myford and Boxford respectively) English machines was significant.

The design and greater mass of those older lathes endowed them with the characteristic that drives the capability of a lathe, namely good rigidity.

Both of those lathes though, were well cared for and didn't exhibit notable wear or abuse (their owner was a old retired machinist turned model engineer and his son, who had owned the Myford from new and the Boxford as a second owner).

The problem you're facing is the result of getting opinions on lathes from human beings who, like all of us, are influenced by their subjective needs and also more importantly, by received wisdom. There's a lot of the latter about in hobby machining (and in any technical kit based hobby). A lot of that received wisdom is valid but it can be given (and taken) out of context and inadvertently mislead.

Neither of the aforementioned two older, well loved and respected lathes would be, I suspect, best used for hogging out big cuts on titanium. Neither would be suited for heavy production work. Some production machinists might even consider them as low capability toys.

If your plans include making driveshafts for tractors, or turning parts for NASA you might want to consider something different but many people (including Quinn of BlondiHacks fame) have been very happy with the PM1022 and have done a lot of great work with it.
 
If your plans include making driveshafts for tractors, or turning parts for NASA you might want to consider something different but many people (including Quinn of BlondiHacks fame) have been very happy with the PM1022 and have done a lot of great work with it.

I meant to point out that while she may have been critical of the PM1022, she has repeatedly made it clear she has no intention of replacing it and she easily could.
While she is "not sponsored" she has a popular youtube channel and her choice of a PM lathe and mill has likely helped to sell some PM machines. I'm pretty certain that by simply suggesting that she was open to being "sponsored" a larger PM1228 or 1236 could magically appear in her garage.
 
Eh, they all do it.

To be fair to BlondiHacks and Clough42 and the others, they all clearly had the financial wherewithal and space to go that step up and once they did it, had no real personal need to do any further research, or go the route of taking one of the smaller Chinese lathes and performing the required fettling, adjustments and upgrades to wring the potential out of it.

Exactly, and you can add Adam Savage to the list as well.
I don't hate them for it, I'm honestly not really even angry about it. More disappointed that they don't just say I don't have experience with them and would only be able to repeat the what I've heard. It is kind of hypocritical to be defensive about your small lathe and then throw those even smaller under the bus.
You would think they would be more aware of the damage they do by throwing their weight behind the "they are crap" mantra. They do an actual disservice to the people for whom a smaller machine is ideal, whether that is a 7" mini, Sherline, Unimat or something else when a simple "I don't know" would suffice. I realize they get asked these questions, but it is ok not to know everything.

At least ToT bought a 7" mini and dug into it to form an educated opinion which is more than most have done.

Not a help for your 7", but Mr Pete has also delved into small lathes doing some work with a Unimat, highlighting the Sherline lathe and mill at a friends clock repair shop, and now taking a dive into the Atlas 6x18".
 
Thank you so much, @Aaron_W, for taking the time to write such a long and informative response. I truly appreciate the effort and detail you put into addressing my questions.

I’m in a bit of a dilemma trying to find the “perfect” machine within my budget, but it’s hard when the price of machines like the PM-1022V is already higher than what I originally planned to spend. I don’t expect to reach the skill level of many lathe owners, and the thought of spending more than I want worries me. Over the years, I’ve waited for better financial flexibility, but the prices have doubled since then. Now, I don’t want to miss the chance to get a lathe, even at this “higher” price.

I understand that learning to grind HSS tools is valuable, but I’d rather start with more convenient, ready-to-use options since I have other priorities at the moment. Over time, I’m sure I’ll learn the skill, but for now, I just want to get started and build my experience. Does that order of priorities make sense? Or should I focus on learning those basics first?

I’m asking all these questions to make sure I’m confident in my purchase and don’t regret it later. Thanks again for your advice—it’s helping me navigate this tricky decision!
 
Perfection is unattainable. Also, owning a lathe is not a marriage—no sacramental vows are required. My advice is to just buy something in the size and power class that might work for your anticipated projects and do stuff with it. If the limitations are too intrusive, sell it on and buy another. The second purchase will be a thousand times more informed.

I spend a lot of time teaching public-sector engineers how to following a systems engineering process that is needs-focused and requirements-driven. But those processes start with domain expertise, which those engineers are supposed to already possess, but that’s one thing we hobbyists often lack when starting out. Sometimes, you need a pilot project to prove the concept and gain domain expertise before making a big investment, if you follow my analogy.

My lathe is somewhat of a family heirloom from my wife’s uncle so for me vows were required negating my general advice above. (That meant spousal approval for everything it has needed, and it has needed a lot.) But it started life as a true light industrial lathe and not a hobbyist lathe, so it had the mass and rigidity from the start to be completely competent even if it lacks the power to make heavy carbide cuts. Even so, for precision small parts, I could use a smaller lathe, but what I’ve learned with my South Bend 14-1/2 has taught me a smaller lathe would need real precision to add value to what I have. That domain knowledge is easy to obtain the hard way.

Look and see if there’s a maker-space club in your area. They might have a manual lathe you can use to gain some of that domain knowledge.

Rick “a little further down the same road” Denney
 
In some ways small machines are more difficult to buy. The bigger and more expensive the machine, the fewer compromises you tend to make.

At the 12" size and larger, a quick change gear box and power cross feed is practically a given.
Power cross feed is an unusual option, and a quick change gear box is pretty much unobtainium on new machine smaller than 12". This makes vintage machines far more competitive in the smaller sizes as they offered things, no longer available without going to a larger machine.

Size wise 12x36" is also a pretty solid general purpose machine. Not huge, but big enough to handle many common tasks. 10x22" is still a pretty solid size for a hobbyist, but obviously not quite as good. When you go smaller than that, you really have to start thinking about your potential needs.

I posted the video to Clough42 as I feel looking at his G0602 and Quinn's PM1022 really highlights the dilemma you face. It is easy to look at the basic specs of the G0602 and the PM1022 and think, well the PM machine costs $800 more, has variable speed and a power cross feed, so it is clearly the better machine.

Then you get into the details more closely, and the belt change on the G0602, while less convenient does offer some benefit. Primarily more low speed torque, because the belt ratios change the speed, not slowing the motor which reduces output as on many variable speed machines.
The G0602 also has a wider bed by about 7/8" which doesn't sound like a lot, but 6-1/8" vs 5.3" is nearly 20% wider, so the G0602 is potentially more rigid as well as having better low speed torque.
The G0602 also has a threaded spindle, which can be a pro or a con. Personally I think the reversing with a threaded spindle is wildly overblown. First of all running in reverse is not a super common need, and second you can run a threaded spindle in reverse, you just need to use some care when you do it. Threaded spindles were used on commercial use lathes forever. Where I feel the G0602 fails here is the use of an uncommon 1-3/4"-8 thread. Had they used the very common 1-1/2"-8 I would view it as a big plus, since nearly every 9-10" lathe offered that thread going back about 100 years. Tons of used tooling to fit 1-1/2"-8. Not so much with 1-3/4"-8 which is practically a proprietary thread to Grizzly.

I'm not saying the G0602 is better and cheaper. The variable speed and power cross feed on the PM1022 are very nice features. However for somebody that might be pushing a 10" lathe towards its upper limits, it is easy for me to see where the G0602 could be a "better" choice.


Small machines involve a lot of choices, so don't feel like you are making a mountain out of a mole hill, you aren't.



As far as grinding HSS vs carbide I can certainly understand the convenience, but be aware that is what it is. You will get much better performance from HSS on a small lathe once you can grind tooling well. Added bonus HSS is the cheaper option excluding he need for a grinder. Grinders are a good multi function tool though, useful for more than just grinding lathe tooling.
 
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But it started life as a true light industrial lathe and not a hobbyist lathe, so it had the mass and rigidity from the start to be completely competent even if it lacks the power to make heavy carbide cuts.

Just quoting this as you are talking about a 2000lb lathe with 1-3hp lacking the mass and power to fully realize the benefits of carbide. That just helps to highlight that the 350lb PM1022 can hardly be faulted for having the same issue.
 
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