Any smal lalhe owners using indexable tooling ?

John,
Carbide works well with high speeds and heavy rigid lathes. They are fragile and do not like interrupted cuts. Small, light, or old lathes (slow) usually do not yield good finishes with carbide. Learn how to grind HSS and you will get much better finishes for less money invested. If you are using a light lathe and are using carbide make sure you are using a positive rake cutting tool. Negative rake will also yield poor finishes on a light lathe.
Chrispy
 
Yesterday, I called the Warner company to order two each of 5 styles of insert each in two different radii (total 20 inserts). Maybe this was a fluke incident but, they only had 2 items I was looking for in just one radius. They had some TNMGs (actually TNMW because HSS inserts do not have chip breakers) so I ordered a couple even though I typically use that style for stuff over 1.5" dia and don't see the need for them in HSS.

I mentioned I was using the popular Shars/Import 7 & 5 pcs sets and got the usual earful about cheap chinese insert holders... Unless these things are golden and fix my mistakes, I'll stick with grinding my own HSS. I will though give the inserts a fair assessment when they arrive.


Ray
 
Ray, The 1/2" Shars set uses the smaller ccmw-2-1.X-X what is only available in the 1/64" radius. If you go up to the Shars 5/8" set, then it uses the CCMW-3-2.X-X that comes in .008, 1/64" and 1/32". Not sure why shars made the break between 1/2" and 5/8". AR Warner made the size break between 3/8" and 1/2" on their tools.

I noted the 1/2" Shars set because it is really well made and a good value for beginners so much more than those crummy triangle starter sets. It will also do double duty with the HSS. OPINION ALERT: You know more than me but I personally don't think radius is as critical with HSS as with carbide and you can cheat a little with that last cut with HSS. They are apples and oranges in how they work. The way I use my machines are different than most in that 99% of the time I don't take allot off in one pass or push the machine/tooling at all. I do gunsmith work so I am working on OTHERS stuff and a mistake will cost me dearly and not just a piece of stock and my time. Just tap it in.
 
Ray C said:
Yesterday, I called the Warner company to order two each of 5 styles of insert each in two different radii (total 20 inserts). Maybe this was a fluke incident but, they only had 2 items I was looking for in just one radius. They had some TNMGs (actually TNMW because HSS inserts do not have chip breakers) so I ordered a couple even though I typically use that style for stuff over 1.5" dia and don't see the need for them in HSS.

I mentioned I was using the popular Shars/Import 7 & 5 pcs sets and got the usual earful about cheap chinese insert holders... Unless these things are golden and fix my mistakes, I'll stick with grinding my own HSS. I will though give the inserts a fair assessment when they arrive.
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Please do give a writeup on them, Ray. I'm sure myself and many others would be grateful for it.
 
If you use HSS more than once a month then, you know a lot more about it than I do! -Guaranteed. I can whip-out an accurate threading bit, basic LH or RH in a jiffy but I only need to do it once a year -if that much. I also "invented" a bit that looks like a truncated point threading tool and it works perfectly for both LH and RH cuts when you want to cut deep for quick removal. -And that's the extent of my HSS background.

I don't think I'd ever need to use the bigger insert size (#3) for the stuff I do. -Actually, I do not even need the 1/2" shank and find myself always reaching for the 3/8 -so it's fine by me that the imports are sized the way they are.

Several times, folks have mentioned this HSS insert company so I thought, what the heck, let's try e'm.

Anyhow... I may be wrong here but I believe carbide and HSS work on the principals of "plastic and elastic deformation" and indeed, they are different. I know them well enough to understand the advantages and disadvantages and, have an intuitive sense of the physics taking place -but haven't been curious enough to go back and figure-out the precise mechanisms at play.

Ray


tripletap3 said:
Ray, The 1/2" Shars set uses the smaller ccmw-2-1.X-X what is only available in the 1/64" radius. If you go up to the Shars 5/8" set, then it uses the CCMW-3-2.X-X that comes in .008, 1/64" and 1/32". Not sure why shars made the break between 1/2" and 5/8". AR Warner made the size break between 3/8" and 1/2" on their tools.

I noted the 1/2" Shars set because it is really well made and a good value for beginners so much more than those crummy triangle starter sets. It will also do double duty with the HSS. OPINION ALERT: You know more than me but I personally don't think radius is as critical with HSS as with carbide and you can cheat a little with that last cut with HSS. They are apples and oranges in how they work. The way I use my machines are different than most in that 99% of the time I don't take allot off in one pass or push the machine/tooling at all. I do gunsmith work so I am working on OTHERS stuff and a mistake will cost me dearly and not just a piece of stock and my time. Just tap it in.
Click to expand...
 
Ray C said:
Yesterday, I called the Warner company to order two each of 5 styles of insert each in two different radii (total 20 inserts). Maybe this was a fluke incident but, they only had 2 items I was looking for in just one radius. They had some TNMGs (actually TNMW because HSS inserts do not have chip breakers) so I ordered a couple even though I typically use that style for stuff over 1.5" dia and don't see the need for them in HSS.

I mentioned I was using the popular Shars/Import 7 & 5 pcs sets and got the usual earful about cheap chinese insert holders... Unless these things are golden and fix my mistakes, I'll stick with grinding my own HSS. I will though give the inserts a fair assessment when they arrive.
Click to expand...

Pardon my newbie ignorance but why is the Shars sets, (like this one? 404-1051) considered better than the Warner tools? Is it only because the metal the tool is made from is better? Thanks.
 
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I didn't pick-up on any assertion that the Shars set is better than anyone elses. If I somehow left that impression, please point it out to me -as it was not intended that way.

The Shars set in my opinion is properly sized and contains useful bit styles for homeshop machining. It's also at a price of about $10 per insert holder. Other holders are costing 60-$100 each!!! What? LOL... It's a piece of medium carbon steel (possibly heat treated but not totally necessary) with a small ground or milled area and a threaded hole. 60-100 bucks for homeshop machining??? when pigs fly!

Yes, the shars holders use standard sized inserts and the warner company makes standard inserts but made of HSS.


Ray

Splat said:
Pardon my newbie ignorance but why is the Shars sets, (like this one? 404-1051) considered better than the Warner tools? Is it only because the metal the tool is made from is better? Thanks.

PS, I remember reading somewhere that the Warner HSS inserts will work on the Shars sets, or am I mistaken?
Click to expand...
 
Ray C said:
I didn't pick-up on any assertion that the Shars set is better than anyone elses. If I somehow left that impression, please point it out to me -as it was not intended that way.

The Shars set in my opinion is properly sized and contains useful bit styles for homeshop machining. It's also at a price of about $10 per insert holder. Other holders are costing 60-$100 each!!! What? LOL... It's a piece of medium carbon steel (possibly heat treated but not totally necessary) with a small ground or milled area and a threaded hole. 60-100 bucks for homeshop machining??? when pigs fly!

Yes, the shars holders use standard sized inserts and the warner company makes standard inserts but made of HSS.
Click to expand...

Sorry if it came across that way Ray. I had read in a few places that the Warners were better, yet others say the Shars were actually better. I'm just looking for another opinion and I value yours, hence my question. :) I was thinking of going with the Warner 3/8" set and their HSS bits but what worries me is they seem to be the only ones offering HSS inserts (??). I'd like to have more choices where to get them for obvious reasons. I know I could use carbide but from everything I've read it wouldn't be advantageous on my old 57 Heavy 10 and for the projects/materials I'd like to do. Honestly I've been trying to decide which way to go so when I complete my rebuild I'll know what to get.... either go with holders and HSS bits, the Wimberley system, or the Diamond/Eccentric Engineering system. I already know grinding my own tools ain't gonna happen because I've tried it a few times already just for the helluvit. :(
 
Gotcha...

I just looked at those Wimberley and Diamond/Eccentric tool holders... Didn't know that was out there. Seems like just another way to skin a cat but, it occurrs to me you'll still need to sharpen bits on a grinder. -So maybe best to suck it up and bite the bullet. I've never been limited by a modern QCTP (happens to be a wedge type) and it looks to me those tool holders you mentioned possibly offer advantages when there is some kind of space restriction due to the geometry of parts being made.

Heck yes you can use carbide on an H10 just like with any other machine. The trick is to know when to use carbide and on what material. Later tonight, I'll post on a different thread that has a weird title like "We need a discussion" or something like that. If memory serves, an H10 tops-out at 1000 RPM. If you're working on stock greater than 1.75", you can use carbide no problem. Even smaller if you're working on SS.

I do use HSS once in a while for small diameter things on soft metal. All my boring bits are HSS too. Made the bits a couple years ago and still using them. I'm not good at making fancy shapes but am OK with basic styles and that's all you need to do most work.

Ray




Splat said:
Sorry if it came across that way Ray. I had read in a few places that the Warners were better, yet others say the Shars were actually better. I'm just looking for another opinion and I value yours, hence my question. :) I was thinking of going with the Warner 3/8" set and their HSS bits but what worries me is they seem to be the only ones offering HSS inserts (??). I'd like to have more choices where to get them for obvious reasons. I know I could use carbide but from everything I've read it wouldn't be advantageous on my old 57 Heavy 10 and for the projects/materials I'd like to do. Honestly I've been trying to decide which way to go so when I complete my rebuild I'll know what to get.... either go with holders and HSS bits, the Wimberley system, or the Diamond/Eccentric Engineering system. I already know grinding my own tools ain't gonna happen because I've tried it a few times already just for the helluvit. :(
Click to expand...
 
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