Ammco shaper restoration problems

[denton]

I bought the ammco 7" shaper to use after I restore it. However, after disassembly I found that the original gears had been replaced by two sprockets and a chain to drive the ram. After cleaning painting and making new shafting for the pulley, it was reassembled but the clearance for the chain was too close and the chain rivets caused it to lock up. The drive could only be rotated about 180 degrees. The culprit turned out to be the connector link and the 1/2 link's pin. I would love to change it back to gear drive but I have no original parts to go by. I would need some specs on the two gears, for instance diameters, tooth count, and any other info that would help find replacements.
A second issue is the adjustable shoe that slides in the dovetail that the bull gear is mounted on. The shoe looks to have been replaced by a homemade version and is very sloppy so I want to remake it. In its present state the shoe, when adjusted to make the ram move more than 4", causes the jamming on the chain's connector link pins. I suspect that the shoe is too short. I'm wondering if somebody might be able to measure how long the shoe should be. When the machine is assembled and the nut is tightened to lock the shoe when the ram is set, the short shaft on the shoe shifts and the bronze bearing that slides in the rocker arm twists out of alignment and limits the sliding action, which also locks up the ram. The first picture shows the sprocket assembly with the shoe in place. The second shows the shoe removed from the sprocket assembly. Any information or parts sources would be much appreciated.
Denton

 

[Bill C.]

I bought the ammco 7" shaper to use after I restore it. However, after disassembly I found that the original gears had been replaced by two sprockets and a chain to drive the ram. After cleaning painting and making new shafting for the pulley, it was reassembled but the clearance for the chain was too close and the chain rivets caused it to lock up. The drive could only be rotated about 180 degrees. The culprit turned out to be the connector link and the 1/2 link's pin. I would love to change it back to gear drive but I have no original parts to go by. I would need some specs on the two gears, for instance diameters, tooth count, and any other info that would help find replacements.
A second issue is the adjustable shoe that slides in the dovetail that the bull gear is mounted on. The shoe looks to have been replaced by a homemade version and is very sloppy so I want to remake it. In its present state the shoe, when adjusted to make the ram move more than 4", causes the jamming on the chain's connector link pins. I suspect that the shoe is too short. I'm wondering if somebody might be able to measure how long the shoe should be. When the machine is assembled and the nut is tightened to lock the shoe when the ram is set, the short shaft on the shoe shifts and the bronze bearing that slides in the rocker arm twists out of alignment and limits the sliding action, which also locks up the ram. The first picture shows the sprocket assembly with the shoe in place. The second shows the shoe removed from the sprocket assembly. Any information or parts sources would be much appreciated.
Denton



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I found this manual on line, http://www.usinages.com/Documentations/Ammco 7 manuel.pdf, I hope if helps.

 

[f350ca]

I did a quick search and it appears the original bull gear was Bakelite. Probably worked too hard and broke. My Logan uses a chain drive, they're not as quiet as gears but serviceable. It appears the sprocket is bolted to the dovetail, could you add a spacer to get clearance to the chain?
Can the shoe be extended the other way to keep the long ear in the dovetail?

Greg

 

[Dave Smith]

if unable to add spacer like Greg suggested for clearance then maybe you could use a pin in your connecting link that doesn't use a retainer on each side---some pins have a small flat head on one end and a cotter key on the other end that can be shimmed to keep side movement restricted---If you can't find one of these pins with small flat head ---then you could just braise the pin on the side where it is hitting the slide----I think having a chain and sprockets may be a better and cheaper way than gears and teeth to break-----hope ideas work for you---Dave

 

[denton]

I did a quick search and it appears the original bull gear was Bakelite. Probably worked too hard and broke. My Logan uses a chain drive, they're not as quiet as gears but serviceable. It appears the sprocket is bolted to the dovetail, could you add a spacer to get clearance to the chain?
Can the shoe be extended the other way to keep the long ear in the dovetail?

Greg

Thanks for the response. I thought of that and found that if I shimmed the sprocket the chain rivets hit ribs of the casting I behind the sprocket I'm using a #50 series chain maybe I could try a chain that's thinner. I'm not that familiar with chain sizes so this is an educational journey. If I resolve the chain issue I can make a new longer shoe. Along those lines what steel should I use to make the shoe and pin out of, mild steel?
Denton

 

[110octane]

Thanks for the response. I thought of that and found that if I shimmed the sprocket the chain rivets hit ribs of the casting I behind the sprocket I'm using a #50 series chain maybe I could try a chain that's thinner. I'm not that familiar with chain sizes so this is an educational journey. If I resolve the chain issue I can make a new longer shoe. Along those lines what steel should I use to make the shoe and pin out of, mild steel?
Denton

I trust that you are sure that the chain is an AISI (etc.) No. 50. I personally think that a No. 40 would be more than adequate for the loads involved. A No. 40 would be much thinner. The downside to this is that you will have to replace the sprockets, since the pitch is different. No. 40 chain is 1/2" pitch by 5/16 (nominal) wide. Sprockets will be easier to find for the No. 40. No. 50 is a very robust chain for a 7" shaper.

Here is a link that offers more information than you probably wish to wade through. http://www.timken.com/en-us/products/Documents/Timken-Drives-Roller-Chain-Catalog.pdf

Regards, Geoff Morgan

 

[f350ca]

Along the lines of what Dave suggested for the joining link, if you have or can get a chain breaker, push out a link then use it for the joint by repeaning (if thats a word) the ends.
Mild steel would be fine for the shoe, something harder would be best for the pin but mild steel would probably last a lot of years in a hobby shop.

Greg

 

[paulygman]

Denton, I have an AMMCO 7" Shaper, just got it about a month ago and have not had a chance to use it very much. Anyway I would be happy to provide measurements, photos, sketches....paulygman

 

[denton]

Denton, I have an AMMCO 7" Shaper, just got it about a month ago and have not had a chance to use it very much. Anyway I would be happy to provide measurements, photos, sketches....paulygman

I'd love to take you up on your kind offer. I've been lucky on my searches to find some information about the shoe such as the pin is not centred end to end on the shoe. Good to know because I would nave centred it, this being off centre causes a faster return stroke than the cutting stroke.

The info I'm looking for is shoe dimensions LXWXH , the angles on the dovetails I think are 60 degrees. I'd love to see some pics of the internal workings through the side cover. Any pics of the counter shaft pulley arrangement would be appreciated as well. Mine does not have a motor mount or counter shaft so that will be the next project. I figure the sprockets and chain will not drop the rpm as much as the original gears so I'll have to do that with the pulleys on the counter shaft. That being said the ratio of the pinion : bull gear would be a useful bit of information.
Much appreciated
Denton

 

[Bartonius]

Denton, I have an AMMCO 7" Shaper, just got it about a month ago and have not had a chance to use it very much. Anyway I would be happy to provide measurements, photos, sketches....paulygman

I also have an AMMCO Shaper, I am sure Paulygman will be able to get you what you need, but if not, I am fairly certain mine has all the original workings, if you need any additional info let me know.