AISI 1025 for Final output Transmission Shaft

Unless your going to have a 4130 shaft heat treated there won't be much difference in the mechanical properties of it and 1215.
This information from the E M Jorgensen reference book
4130(as rolled) tensile psi 100,000 yield psi 60,000
4130(annealed) tensile 80,000 yield 56,000
1215 tensile 88,000 yield 75,000

The 1215 will be much easier to machine.
 
If it were me I would use something easy to machine, like 1144 stressproof or 12L14. Both of these materials should be way stronger than any brass alloy other than maybe ampco bronze or something of that nature. Both of the above mentioned steels are tough and easy to machine, 1144 has a yield strength of 100,000 psi. I use it on some steering shaft adapters I make on a regular basis.
 
Unless your going to have a 4130 shaft heat treated there won't be much difference in the mechanical properties of it and 1215.
This information from the E M Jorgensen reference book
4130(as rolled) tensile psi 100,000 yield psi 60,000
4130(annealed) tensile 80,000 yield 56,000
1215 tensile 88,000 yield 75,000

The 1215 will be much easier to machine.

Oldmachinist,

I would agree, but who has 1215 in lengths less than 12 foot long. Of course may have the same probem with buying 4130-4140.
I can bet you that 4130-4140 cold drawn in .50-.75" diameter will have a yield of around 90K, minimum. Heat treated will be around 120K min. yield. I don't think, in my experience with 1215, that you will get that kind of yield out of it.

I do like the old Jorgensen book, lots of good sound information in it. That information has not changed in over 50 years. But metalurgy, metal processing and heat treating has inproved a bunch over the years to where you get better charteristics from steel produced today.
 
First, I want to thank everyone who has responded to my inquiry. This is my first project machining and my first post.
Thanks!
When suggesting 12L14, in part due to it's machining properties, I went to order several 1' lengths and it stated "Carbon" 12L14 for the round versus "Cold Rolled" for any other shape.
Is there a difference between the "Carbon" in round versus the "Cold Roll"?
Thanks again,
tjs
 
tsull,

I think you may be over thinking this. I assume those tank bodies are mostly plastic and don't weigh much - maybe some ballast down low for traction. Anyway, you asked why the OEM used some type of brass alloy. Probably because it's cheap and easy to manufacture in mass. My guess is you could use about any grade of steel and be better off than the original shaft. There are several internet sources for small lengths and usually a local supplier - I have one local to me called Metal by the Foot - or something similar.

You didn't state what the diameter of the material is so it's a little tough to make suggestions, but if you have an old printer there are lots of shafts inside them that could probably be made to work. You could go to the big box store and buy a 3' length of who knows what and probably get by too.

Hope this helps.

Steve
 
Oldmachinist,

I would agree, but who has 1215 in lengths less than 12 foot long. Of course may have the same probem with buying 4130-4140.
I can bet you that 4130-4140 cold drawn in .50-.75" diameter will have a yield of around 90K, minimum. Heat treated will be around 120K min. yield. I don't think, in my experience with 1215, that you will get that kind of yield out of it.

I do like the old Jorgensen book, lots of good sound information in it. That information has not changed in over 50 years. But metalurgy, metal processing and heat treating has inproved a bunch over the years to where you get better charteristics from steel produced today.

That's why I mentioned McMaster Carr above. A piece of 1/2" diameter 1215 3' long from them is $8.17 plus about $6 in shipping. I don't know what exact diameter he's looking for so I just used 1/2" as an example.
 
It might be a good time to define a couple of metal terms. "Cold roll(ed)" does not refer in any way to a specific grade or type of steel beyond the way it is processed. In fact, many of the various steels can be acquired in both "cold rolled" and "hot rolled", and for all practical purposes, they are interchangeable except for the fact that the final product can determine which can be used without further mechanical processing. Typically, material specified to be "cold rolled" has a better surface finish, is free of all mill scale, and is held to closer dimensional and straightness tolerances. "Hot rolled" on the other hand will have scale and is generally less accurately finished. Not though, that not all steel varieties are available both ways. I believe the most commonly (and erroneously) called "Cold roll(ed)" steels are the low carbon, mild steels such as AISI 1018 and 1020. They can be had, or rather a rough equivalent can be as "hot rolled". Of course, "cold rolled" starts as "hot rolled". After several stages of processing, including some heat treatment, it is drawn to a smaller size while "cold", relatively speaking. Don't think "refrigerated", just below the material's critical temperature.

One reference: http://www.engineersedge.com/materials/carbon-steel-properties.htm
Please consult the EMJ handbook whenever possible. And grab someone's blue book while they're not looking. I don't believe they are printing them any more. You can't have mine.

One other term I want to mention is the "L" included in a few alloys. In the case of 12L14, a very popular and useful metal, it signifies an addition of elemental Lead to improve machineability, though generally thought as a sacrifice in weldability. In the case of stainless alloys, the "L" means something entirely different. For example, type 316 allows up to 0.08% Carbon content in the chemical makeup, whereas type 316L allows only 0.03% max. That isn't much, but it makes it a far more weldable material. Small chemistry changes allow tremendous mechanical property differences.

As far as the current issue goes, most any steel would probably suffice. You should decide if you want to improve the strength of the factory material. That's a bit tough, not knowing for certain what it is. I think the guys have given some fine advice above. If it were me, I'd just do a commercial 4140 HT. It's almost positively stronger than what is there, and you should be prepared for something else to break should the fuse to fail in protecting the power train. Plus, it's about as easy to get online as anything, and you know what you have then.
 
It might be a good time to define a couple of metal terms. "Cold roll(ed)" does not refer in any way to a specific grade or type of steel beyond the way it is processed. In fact, many of the various steels can be acquired in both "cold rolled" and "hot rolled", and for all practical purposes, they are interchangeable except for the fact that the final product can determine which can be used without further mechanical processing. Typically, material specified to be "cold rolled" has a better surface finish, is free of all mill scale, and is held to closer dimensional and straightness tolerances. "Hot rolled" on the other hand will have scale and is generally less accurately finished. Not though, that not all steel varieties are available both ways. I believe the most commonly (and erroneously) called "Cold roll(ed)" steels are the low carbon, mild steels such as AISI 1018 and 1020. They can be had, or rather a rough equivalent can be as "hot rolled". Of course, "cold rolled" starts as "hot rolled". After several stages of processing, including some heat treatment, it is drawn to a smaller size while "cold", relatively speaking. Don't think "refrigerated", just below the material's critical temperature.

One reference: http://www.engineersedge.com/materials/carbon-steel-properties.htm
Please consult the EMJ handbook whenever possible. And grab someone's blue book while they're not looking. I don't believe they are printing them any more. You can't have mine.

One other term I want to mention is the "L" included in a few alloys. In the case of 12L14, a very popular and useful metal, it signifies an addition of elemental Lead to improve machineability, though generally thought as a sacrifice in weldability. In the case of stainless alloys, the "L" means something entirely different. For example, type 316 allows up to 0.08% Carbon content in the chemical makeup, whereas type 316L allows only 0.03% max. That isn't much, but it makes it a far more weldable material. Small chemistry changes allow tremendous mechanical property differences.

As far as the current issue goes, most any steel would probably suffice. You should decide if you want to improve the strength of the factory material. That's a bit tough, not knowing for certain what it is. I think the guys have given some fine advice above. If it were me, I'd just do a commercial 4140 HT. It's almost positively stronger than what is there, and you should be prepared for something else to break should the fuse to fail in protecting the power train. Plus, it's about as easy to get online as anything, and you know what you have then.



Thanks Tony for your information (and everyone else's info also!). This is my first post (question) and I was somewhat hesitant due to my lack of knowledge and how the forum members might react to such simple questions. The tone and feel of this forum is great. I look forward to learning a lot and, at some point, able to contribute to the pool of information.

Thanks everyone!
tjs
 
tsull,

I think you may be over thinking this. I assume those tank bodies are mostly plastic and don't weigh much - maybe some ballast down low for traction. Anyway, you asked why the OEM used some type of brass alloy. Probably because it's cheap and easy to manufacture in mass. My guess is you could use about any grade of steel and be better off than the original shaft. There are several internet sources for small lengths and usually a local supplier - I have one local to me called Metal by the Foot - or something similar.

You didn't state what the diameter of the material is so it's a little tough to make suggestions, but if you have an old printer there are lots of shafts inside them that could probably be made to work. You could go to the big box store and buy a 3' length of who knows what and probably get by too.

Hope this helps.

Steve

Thanks Steve!

The RC Tanks can weigh up to 18 pounds. It doesn't seem like much, but with the power transmission, gears, sprockets, treads, etc., it puts a tremendous load on the systems. It's a fun hobby - I got tired of picking up helicopter pieces....

tjs
PS: the shaft is slightly under 1/2" (I just bought my new digital mic from HF and need to put the batteries in*).
 
I have a machinist buddy that swears by using off the shelf American made bolts from your local hardware store to turn steel parts from. Bolts are usually made for toughness, not brittle. Thats what I would do. It's gotta be tougher than brass, thats for sure.
 
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