4077 TIG Rod

[Uglydog]

Uglydog, By chance did you mean 4047 tig rod? 4047 is a new class of filler they came out with that has more silicon to promote wetting on thin pieces. Its close to 4043.

And how do I go about posting up PDF's? I have a chart of Al filler to base metal specs that covers more alloys and castings than one could shake a stick at.

Plasma, when you hit "reply", or "post a new thread" scroll down. You will see a digital button that says manage attachments. It will allow you to add files. You will need to select the directory on your laptop/ipad. Select the items and upload. I find the tricky part is finding the button.

And yes you are correct I should be referencing 4047!
Argh...

Daryl
MN

 

[iron man]

I have welded mountains of cast aluminum there is really no big trick to it as before mentioned clean it well if it has been around a lot of oil heat it up and let it cool if not then it is not a big deal 4043 should work just fine if you want something a little stronger pick up some 5356 I have both and would be able to send you some to try out if you would like. And like Dave Smith I have never had one fail either I use to weld the oil pans out of semi tractors never had one leak either

Some people refer to cast aluminum when really it is cast zinc ( like Zmack ) with a wide variable of other metals including aluminum involved. This is not cast aluminum it is very heavy in weight I can also weld that with 98% success rate but it is a different rod and a little different process..Ray

 

[sniggler]

I think dave smith was talk about the flux coated stick welding aluminum rod. I have used that and for me it was like driving a ten penny nail with a plastic hammer.

I was on a the elevated subway in Brooklyn and renovating billboard sign frames on the passenger platform the had been painted with red-lead and heavy green painted

the job was to put pieces of .090 5052 sheet on the bottom border of the sign the posts are steel and the sign frame is aluminum channel the old bottom face panel was corroded as was the channel we had to weld the new panel to the old channel. The guy i was partnered with was a really good welder without any aluminum experience.

I came in part way into the job he was using what the company gave him aluminum stick basically just striking an ark forming a puddle if you can stop clean repeat you can't see it in the picture but the bottom corners are a radius (like 8") making that wrap and running the over head was just a total pain. He had been doing like 2 frames a day with a helper. Anyway we talked the super into getting us a spool gun and argon set up for the cv/cc miller bobcat we were running. You still had o lie down on the filthy platform and clean all the paint and corrosion but the welding still a pain was doable. We were able do 6 frames a day, mind you we still had to tarp off to protect the public. The contractor was happy the signs were an extra as the real job was replacing the top flanges of the track girders,

That stick aluminum rod is a repair quality rod to get you through in a pinch and more often than not it just makes a mess. It might make sense for a small non-critical repair with no access to the right equipment but it just won't cut it for a professional welder who cares about his reputation.

Bob

 

[jamie76x]

Even a spool gun with aluminum wire is just a Band-aid for welding aluminum. I love it when a salesman talks some one into a spool gun unit saying "You can weld any aluminum job with this" Spool guns on aluminum are "ok" for doing ornimental work and other jobs that your heat and penetration do not have to be uniform. Spool guns are horrible on cast aluminum and any other work that you need to control the heat. Some of the new fancy wire feed welders like the 350p miller do a suprisingly good job on aluminum with wire . Even though they are DC you can change your heat around as the piece gets heat ing it by simply pulling the gun away from the weld further. The pulsewave and computer technology allows this to happen.

 

[sniggler]

Even a spool gun with aluminum wire is just a Band-aid for welding aluminum. I love it when a salesman talks some one into a spool gun unit saying "You can weld any aluminum job with this" Spool guns on aluminum are "ok" for doing ornimental work and other jobs that your heat and penetration do not have to be uniform. Spool guns are horrible on cast aluminum and any other work that you need to control the heat. Some of the new fancy wire feed welders like the 350p miller do a suprisingly good job on aluminum with wire . Even though they are DC you can change your heat around as the piece gets heat ing it by simply pulling the gun away from the weld further. The pulsewave and computer technology allows this to happen.

For fabricating with .090 1/8, 3/16, 1/4 and up 5/8 inch 5086, 5052, 6061 sheet plate tube pipe angle for commercial fishing i have found my old spool gun with an old millermatic 200 was up to the job and mean i was in the fishing business using the stuff and we beat the crap out of this stuff not always pretty but heavily welded and very tough pretty much the standard for gulf coast and Alaska fisheries too. for cast i would chose the tig but i have used mig on that as well. really you need both and the new pulse stuff is being used on bright work fire truck work 3003 that come out very nice. Mt band-aids held ok on the trap platform for an off-shore lobster boat over loaded with traps back and forth to the fishing ground going on 20 years now no reason in the world to waste time tigging that. Now many tuna tower on a sport fishing boat meant to show every tig weld as art came to me for repairs. Under engineered for the north atlantic.

bob
Bob

 

[sniggler]

oopps

 

[Uglydog]

I have welded mountains of cast aluminum there is really no big trick to it as before mentioned clean it well if it has been around a lot of oil heat it up and let it cool if not then it is not a big deal 4043 should work just fine if you want something a little stronger pick up some 5356 I have both and would be able to send you some to try out if you would like. And like Dave Smith I have never had one fail either I use to weld the oil pans out of semi tractors never had one leak either

Some people refer to cast aluminum when really it is cast zinc ( like Zmack ) with a wide variable of other metals including aluminum involved. This is not cast aluminum it is very heavy in weight I can also weld that with 98% success rate but it is a different rod and a little different process..Ray

Thanks for the offer of the 4043 and 5356. I've got some in my rod pile. Just trying to leverage a good outcome.
What rod do you use to weld cast zinc?
Also AC pulse?
I've always associated it with being the same as "pot metal"?
Not relevant to this project, but really would like to know...

Daryl
MN

 

[jamie76x]

Cast zinc is totally different..... And I think what he is talking about is White metal or pot metal. Thats the really cheap cast aluminum.
If you have that, you can still weld it but the results will not be very good and it will be a pain in the butt.
On cast aluminum you ONLY will every use AC and NEVER use the puler. Pulsers are typicly for people who do not know what they are doing and it takes about 20 years of quality tig welding to figure out how to properly use a pulser. If you or any one use the "Plulser" to make puddles, then your way off on what it is and how its used. No pulser, AC current only and adjust the ac balance for more cleaning. If you do not have AC balance then it makes it a little tougher to weld cast.

 

[sniggler]

I wanted to add a Q and A from miller on pulsed mig which is what I have seen being used on fire truck diamond tread bright work in 3003. Just saying for that work which has always been tig welded the pulsed mig has changed the game. I have not used the process except to play with it at a shop that i was having some bending and rolling done. They were using it on fire truck bright work the results were very impressive a little different look but very consistent and as pleasing to the eye as a tig weld executed by a master welder.

I have not used pulsed tig. If the use of pulsed tig takes 20 year for a journeyman welder to master then it's probably not for me, makes me wonder why its gaining such wide acceptance.

Bob

Q: What's The Difference Between Spray Transfer And Pulsed Spray Transfer?
A: Pulsed spray transfer, commonly called pulsed MIG, puts less heat into the work yet maintains many benefits of spray transfer, such as good fusion, high deposition rates and/or fast travel speeds. In pulsed spray transfer, the power source switches between a high peak current and a low background current. The peak current pinches off a spray transfer droplet and propels it toward the weldment. The background current maintains the arc, but is too low for metal transfer to occur. This is unlike spray transfer, which continuously transfers tiny drops of molten metal.
Q: What Aluminum Applications Are Good Candidates For Pulsed MIG?
A: Good applications include those now prone to such problems as lack of fusion, warpage, burn through, spatter, lack of puddle control and poor bead appearance. Any fabricator currently using the short circuit process on thinner metal might want to examine pulsed MIG. Short circuit transfer can be prone to poor fusion (especially at the toes of the weld) and porosity. Pulsed MIG can solve these problems because it lowers heat input to levels associated with short circuit transfer, yet maintains the good fusion of spray transfer. For example, pulsed welding a 1/8 in. thick section of aluminum with a 3/64 in. diameter wire reQuires an average of 140 amps. In the program for this application, a 90 amp background current eliminates worries about burn through or warping, while a 350 amp pulse of peak current provides good penetration and wet out.
Q: I've Heard That Pulsed MIG Weld Beads Look Good. Why Is That?
A: Pulsed MIG provides good bead appearance because the tiny molten droplets being transferred do not create spatter. Also, because the weld puddle cools in-between pulses, it freezes faster. The puddle is less likely to sag or look excessively convex when welding out-of-position. Operators have so much control over the weld pool with pulsed MIG that they can create beads with a TIG-like appearance. In fact, manufacturers currently TIG welding might consider pulsed MIG as a way to increase out-put while satisfying bead appearance and Quality control demands.

 

[NITROTRIP]

Cast zinc is totally different..... And I think what he is talking about is White metal or pot metal. Thats the really cheap cast aluminum.
If you have that, you can still weld it but the results will not be very good and it will be a pain in the butt.
On cast aluminum you ONLY will every use AC and NEVER use the puler. Pulsers are typicly for people who do not know what they are doing and it takes about 20 years of quality tig welding to figure out how to properly use a pulser. If you or any one use the "Plulser" to make puddles, then your way off on what it is and how its used. No pulser, AC current only and adjust the ac balance for more cleaning. If you do not have AC balance then it makes it a little tougher to weld cast.

I have to not realy disagree with a couple of things but can add to our welding toolbox. I have 31yrs helmet time as a TIG welder, called when I
started "HeliArc". 12yrs of that 10hr day factory, the rest short run fabrication and repair. Lots of cast aluminum. Miller 330 A/BP as
my main machine, It's a balanced wave transformer. Here is what I use the pulser for on cast aluminum and why. With my inverter machine.
You have a dirty casting like a head or oil pan. You end up adjusting your AC balance close to 50% to get enough cleaning action from the arc, for
the dirty casting anyway. Like not having any AC balance to start with. Here is where AC is used with pulse, you back down your AC balance for
a little less cleaning action but more penetration. set your pulse with only 20% less background current and frequency around 200-250hz.
What that does is it agitates the puddle and shakes the dirt and impurities to the top. The other benefit is it focuses the arc tighter like
increasing the AC freq without cutting down the cleaning action. It also concentrates the heat in the weld area a little better before the thermal
conductivity of aluminum spreads it out and warps your part.

"Pulsers are typically for people who don't know what they are doing" Where I disagree with this statement is, "typically for". If a new welder uses
the pulse tool without starting with base settings there learning curve will be extended for a VERY long time. If an experienced welder sets up the pulse settings for them then I completely agree with that statement. As it can be a crutch. As in a factory setting where they are unable to find
TIG welders with a solid base, but is used to get product done and out the door. But there again it is a tool for the factory to use and up
production, the bottom line.

The pulser is just another tool in our tool box. People that have a lot of experience, still will pound on a screw driver with a hammer. Just another
way to get the job done. It's your screw driver. I won't curse you for it but might offer a suggestion.

Have a enjoyable Labor Day
Take Care,

Rick