2020 POTD Thread Archive

I do understand that there are lots of businesses that hire under educated staff, and have few if any scruples. Your situation sounds much the same as it did here in the 1960's and even later. I got into the auto business in the early 1970's just as NAISE (National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence) came into being. This institute was the first organization to test and certify technicians in all fields of automotive and truck repair. To get ahead of the game I took the certification tests as early as 1974. At that time I had to pass the tests in 8 different categories to become a Certified Master Technician. Times have changed a bit since then The name of the institute has now been shortened to ASE, and there are additional categories available (Compressed natural gas certification, and Light Duty Hybrid/Electric vehicle specialist certification among them) that didn't exist when I became a master technician. I recertified several times over the years, but finally let them expire in 1996. At that time my day job required up to 200 travel days per year, and there just wasn't enough time to attempt to keep up on a career I had left behind.

At first there were few if any believers in the system. As time went on it became more and more popular. Now it's to the point that no reputable garage or dealership will hire anyone that isn't certified in one or more of the disciplines. I'm sure there are still some bozo's out there doing things they shouldn't. However they are now a small minority of those working in the field.
 
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projectnut said:
I do understand that there are lots of businesses that hire under educated staff, and have few if any scruples. Your situation sounds much the same as it did here in the 1960's and even later. I got into the auto business in the early 1970's just as NAISE (National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence) came into being. This institute was the first organization to test and certify technicians in all fields of automotive and truck repair. To get ahead of the game I took the certification tests as early as 1974. At that time I had to pass the tests in 8 different categories to become a Certified Master Technician. Times have changed a bit since then The name of the institute has now been shortened to ASE, and there are additional categories available (Compressed natural gas certification, and Light Duty Hybrid/Electric vehicle specialist certification among them) that didn't exist when I became a master technician. I recertified several times over the years, but finally let them expire in 1996. At that time my day job required up to 200 travel days per year, and there just wasn't enough time to attempt to keep up on a career I had left behind.

At first there were few if any believers in the system. As time went on it became more and more popular. Now it's to the point that no reputable garage or dealership will hire anyone that isn't certified in one or more of the disciplines. I'm sure there are still some bozo's out there doing things they shouldn't. However they are now a small minority of those working in the field.
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Having done a formal apprenticeship I have always found the American system hard to understand given that the Guild system was in place throughout the civilised world when America was colonized and while the Guilds morphed into Trades with formal education everywhere else this didn't happen in America.
Great news on that front too, this morning on the local news it was announced that in a major nationwide poll 85% of people polled thought an apprenticeship and Trade qualification was more valuable than a university degree.
Nice to know that common sense is returning to the masses.
 
projectnut said:
I do understand that there are lots of businesses that hire under educated staff, and have few if any scruples. Your situation sounds much the same as it did here in the 1960's and even later. I got into the auto business in the early 1970's just as NAISE (National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence) came into being. This institute was the first organization to test and certify technicians in all fields of automotive and truck repair. To get ahead of the game I took the certification tests as early as 1974. At that time I had to pass the tests in 8 different categories to become a Certified Master Technician. Times have changed a bit since then The name of the institute has now been shortened to ASE, and there are additional categories available (Compressed natural gas certification, and Light Duty Hybrid/Electric vehicle specialist certification among them) that didn't exist when I became a master technician. I recertified several times over the years, but finally let them expire in 1996. At that time my day job required up to 200 travel days per year, and there just wasn't enough time to attempt to keep up on a career I had left behind.

At first there were few if any believers in the system. As time went on it became more and more popular. Now it's to the point that no reputable garage or dealership will hire anyone that isn't certified in one or more of the disciplines. I'm sure there are still some bozo's out there doing things they shouldn't. However they are now a small minority of those working in the field.
Click to expand...

ASE certification and the requisite education are great however, it seems to me that you're equating certification with conscientiousness.
They are not at all the same thing, not even close.
In the U.S., medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer. Who is more "certified" than doctors and nurses?
 
As someone who works in cybersecurity in a place that requires degrees to work, I have to chime in here. A degree proves that someone had the ability to put themselves through four (or more) years of "listen to someone lecture, then regurgitate that baloney in a test". They are great for a corporate meeting environment.

However, if I was allowed to choose between a degree possessor who was purely theoretical vs. a self taught, down-in-the-trenches individual who could look at something and understand what was happening, I'd be taking the self taught in a heart beat. To often, we equate education and certifications with expertise.

That said, if no one hires anyone without experience, how does one gain experience? Hiring managers need to be able to see through the pig crap and know what kind of person they are hiring. I typically ask a question just out of the candidates reach of knowledge because it tells me two things. First, are they the person that will tell me something they think I want to hear, or are they willing to admit they don't know the answer? That also lets me know how they will react if they make a mistake. I don't care if a mistake is made as much as I care if you own that mistake. If you own it and learn from it, you are better for it. Give me a technical person over a theoretical any day. If someone came to me with no experience but could demonstrate a strong ability to learn and adapt, you will have much hire stock than someone who claims expertise with a degree but has no application of anything.

My wife just started talking about trades being more desirable than degrees, and she's a teacher.

joe
 
Silverhawke,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. My time was 9500 hours with some taken off for academic achievements and passing of practical tests. The beauty of a formal Trade is that in most countries it comprises high level,(University),academic study combined with on the job practical hands-on work. It sets you up to tackle everything except to corporate office environment. There being a huge amount of cross-Trade skills it is easy to move to another Trade if desired and also gives a very good basis for academic study in a university environment if one can stomach the political correctness and outright BS that you will be surrounded with.
 
After nearly a dozen years, I finally purchased the reducer for my Orion 80ED telescope, but the focuser is not threaded to attach the reducer as it is the Williams Optics replacement. So this morning I took an adapter and threaded the end to fit. Since I was only threading vs making the whole item it did not take long. Switch the lathe gear to metric as the thread is 1.0 and resharpen the tool to make proper threads in the aluminum adapter.

Pierre
EB1EBB0F-A96E-44BC-B031-3C250EE9B44F.jpegEE479E90-0E75-45A7-BAE6-E25017879D67.jpeg
 
Busy day!
Second project, I grabbed a set of drawers coming out of a home and the island countertop. Married them together and put swivel wheels underneath and made a storage and outfeed table for the saw and other uses.
Pierre
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Nice job. And it's very perceptive of you to realize that "storge" likely comes before "outfeed." Many's the horizontal surface I've cluttered ...
 
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