10EE Problem

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MattM

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I have a 1975 10EE that blew the 22060 tube. I ordered and received a new tube from Monarch ($500.00+). Installed it today. Did not solve the problem lathe is not running. I called Monarch and they won't be back until Wednesday.

I have a good friend who said to s-can the 70 year old technology and install a 3phase motor with VFD. This guy is no amateur. He has installed VFDs on two of my mills and knows electronics.

I'm thinking that's the way to go. What say ye?

If I go that way:

1. What horsepower motor?

2. Will I get the same performance from my 10EE?

3. Any salvage value from the parts removed; DC motor, Thyratron tubes, etc.?

I love my 10EE and want it to be well again. Any comments greatly appreciated.
 
Iwill buy your C16J tubes if they are good. You need 10 hp motor if you take out back gear, 7.5 if you keep it. I would not let anyone who has not done a EE conversion anywhere near my machine. Your mills likely were not DC servo controlled machines when your buddy converted them to VFD. Unless he is a wizard at all things 10ee I would steer clear. Jump over to PM and study for a while all the conversion threads and then make your decision.
 
I think I saw a YouTube on a repair on a 10ee , it turned out to be some cheap part , might have been Adams buddy or another guy but ask them if you find there video. Worth a shot , Keith Rucker just picked up one not working saved from the scrap hoards. Outside screwball has a 10ee to he got not long ago .
 
Doubleeboy said:
Iwill buy your C16J tubes if they are good. You need 10 hp motor if you take out back gear, 7.5 if you keep it. I would not let anyone who has not done a EE conversion anywhere near my machine. Your mills likely were not DC servo controlled machines when your buddy converted them to VFD. Unless he is a wizard at all things 10ee I would steer clear. Jump over to PM and study for a while all the conversion threads and then make your decision.
Click to expand...

Right on that, one was a Bridgeport the other a Kent.

I can get a NIB 10hp motor for $250.00 tomorrow.

What I'm having difficulty understanding is: we have a machine here that is mechanical and we have a power source that is electrical, two separate entities. Why does the machine care what the power source is be it electric, steam, gasoline, diesel, water wheel, or...? Seems to me you put an engine to the belt and away we go.

Could you recommend someone who has done the conversion to do the conversion or tell me how to do it?
 
I respectfully suggest you do some studying on the nature of the machine you have and why it is considered one of the all time greats. There is a reason Monarch choose to go DC for decades. Check on PM monarch board for the guys who have done the change over to VFD, its not a simple project, I can not stress enough you need to study up what has been done by others. If you think all power sources are same you have lots of learning to do.
 
The joke is you have to be a EE (electrical engineer) to maintain an old 10EE.

I've owned and operated my 10EE for 20 years. Converted it to VFD and three phase 18 years ago. Ive been EXTREMELY HAPPY with the conversion.

Yep, go with the 10 hp 3 phase so you can toss the back gear. This makes it a straight forward easy swap out. (I kept the back gear and went with a 5hp because big VFDs were EXPENSIVE 18 years ago)

Install a rheostat behind the old speed control handle. Now it can still be used to control speed. Put the forward/stop/reverse levers to the VFD inputs. Now from the outside you can not even tell its not an original machine.

Ask if you got questions. I've installed a great many VFD conversions on all sorts of equipment.
 
A friend up the road removed old motor and modified it to be connection to a new 3 phase with vfd.

Still has back gear and other things and it is somewhat clean and works.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 
Karl_T said:
The joke is you have to be a EE (electrical engineer) to maintain an old 10EE.

I've owned and operated my 10EE for 20 years. Converted it to VFD and three phase 18 years ago. Ive been EXTREMELY HAPPY with the conversion.

Yep, go with the 10 hp 3 phase so you can toss the back gear. This makes it a straight forward easy swap out. (I kept the back gear and went with a 5hp because big VFDs were EXPENSIVE 18 years ago)

Install a rheostat behind the old speed control handle. Now it can still be used to control speed. Put the forward/stop/reverse levers to the VFD inputs. Now from the outside you can not even tell its not an original machine.

Ask if you got questions. I've installed a great many VFD conversions on all sorts of equipment.
Click to expand...

I'm not an EE but I did have some fraternity brothers in college who were. Unfortunately their brilliance did not wear off on me. I'm just an amateur, amateur hobby machinist who has the very good fortune to own a Monarch 10EE. I don't need Lawrence Livermore power and accuracy to do what I try to do.

I'm going to talk to the factory tomorrow and see what they recommend. (They did tell me some time ago that they could completely refurbish my machine with the latest drive, all new wear parts, scrape the ways, etc. for $23,000.00 not including freight.) If I were in a production environment making parts for ICBM's that might make sense.
 
i would not hesitate to yank out the old system and retrofit a new (edit) 7.5 hp, 3 phase motor and VFD to the works. :drool:
but, i may not be the voice of reason.
i get paid to do similar retrofit work on packaging and processing machinery :)
 
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The current problem could be something very simple like a relay, interlock, blown diode or even a fuse. The wiring diagram gives voltages at different points, but one needs to take special care with probing since the voltages are stepped up (~600V) for the tubes. You would need a 1000V rated voltmeter and probes, very dangerous. My amplifiers run at around 1100V DC, very scary stuff. Hopefully the company can give you some basic tests to check the lower volt systems. The DC motor system was a marvel of its time and even today delivers unprecedented power over a very wide operating range. You might check other forums if there is anybody in your area that can give you a hand problem solving your machine.

On the VFD end, there are many postings on the conversions, most are happy with the final result but it is not just a simple matter of replacing the motor and connecting a few wires. The other major cost is still the VFD and having the power source to run it. If running single phase in on a 10Hp motor would require a 20Hp 3 phase VFD, the wiring would need to be able to handle a 20Hp. An alternative would be to run a 5Hp motor with a 7.5 or 10Hp 3 phase VFD with the back gear (or a 7.5Hp motor), there are also a couple of single phase 5Hp VFDs sold. But using a 10Hp motor would probably be 2-3X the cost. If you use an inverter motor, it will give you a much wider operating RPM range (up to 6000 RPM and flat torque down to 0 RPM) vs standard motors. Marathon makes a series of inverter motors called the BlackMax and BlueMax, Baldor has the IDNM which I use on my lathe. They often come up at auction for a fraction of their list price (see links). Be aware of the shaft size if using the back gear, from other postings seems like some are keyed or splined 1.25". On the VFD control system, I often install a simple 3 relay system that prevents startup unless in the stop position, interlocks are all active, etc. I can send you a diagram if interested.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baldor-Reliancer-Motor-184TC-5HP-230-460V-1760RPM-3PH-IDNM3665T/182487935288
http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-5-HP-213T...-RPM-3-ph-TENV-Baldor-IDNM3770T-/122523863098

Marathon BlueMax 10Hp for direct drive
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10HP-1800RP...8BR-NSNB-10-HP-ELECTRIC-MOTOR-1-/122566943568
Could use something like a Hitachi VFD - WJ200-150LF

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/vfd-conversion-99166/
 
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