1/2” Shank Cutter Height Issue - Shars QCTP on Grizzly G4000 Lathe

[wilkerd1]

Do you have a 4 jaw chuck for your lathe? If so, you can machine the bottom end of the AXA tool holder off in your lathe. Use a 3/8" tool with carbide, as the tool holder might be hardened. I had a similar problem on my Grizzly G0752Z, the compound is 0.047" too high. I machined off 0.050" off the bottom of my Aloris AXA tool holder, and everything just works now.

If you don't have a 4 jaw chuck, you should get one when the opportunity arises. You need one for second operations and for handling rectangular stock. Normal 3 jaw chucks have enough runout that removing the work piece pretty much guarantees you are not on the same center line as before.

Thankfully I do have the 4 jaw. The seller was a real nice dude. He included all the goodies sans cutters. Even has the mini DRO’s on it. Now…I do t know how to setup a workpiece correctly on a 4 jaw yet, but that’s next on the learn list for sure.

Besides cutters I need to get a longer drive belt though. From what I’ve been seeing there are 2 different sizes for changing speeds. The one belt that came with it will only fit on certain pulley combos. When trying other speed/pulley combos the belt is too small and won’t slip up on them.


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[wilkerd1]

I have a Palmgren 250 that came with my lathe, never used.....
Had my mill/drill before the lathe.......

That’s exactly what I was think about adding on to band-aide until I can scrounge up a mill for my shop. Are the Palmgrens, generally speaking, worth spending money on?

I do like your tool holder tip too! For quick-and-dirty cuts that sounds super handy!


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[chip maker]

Another rabbit hole for sure. The belt deal on these machines is something else for sure. There are two different cogged belts for the motor and two different ones for the drive. Without getting into it all has a lot to do with the motor adjustment to the clutch drive to get the other belt to work for all the different speeds. It took me quite a while to get this figured out but now, I am set up using just one size belt for all the speeds and it fits pulleys as it should wasn't really easy for me tho because my machine is on a bench that is tight to a wall making getting at the motor mountings to adjust very hard but can be done with the right tool setup. Did you get the owner's manual from the old owner? If you, did it will give you the proper belt numbers for that machine. With those numbers all it takes is proper set up of the motor to get the other belt to work on all the pulleys for all speeds. There is really two adjustment points for the cogged belt motor and also the clutch slide than from there the drive belt gets installed as needed. For sure do this when you have plenty of time because you will need it. Happy Days

 

[epanzella]

Stick an end mill in your chuck with a turn of making tape on it. Take the bit out of your TH and stick it in the QCTH. Mill 1/16" off the bottom of the slot in each TH. It'll take less than 5 minutes each.

 

[WobblyHand]

Stick an end mill in your chuck with a turn of making tape on it. Take the bit out of your TH and stick it in the QCTH. Mill 1/16" off the bottom of the slot in each TH. It'll take less than 5 minutes each.

I respectfully disagree. (Or maybe we are saying the same thing in very different ways.) The compound is too high. An easy way to fix the problem is to chuck the tool holder in a 4 jaw chuck, and turn the bottom of the tool holder. I'd bet HSS might be good enough. The bottom surface is non-critical. Even an angle grinder would be ok. Or a belt sander. Take off just enough to make it work. Don't machine inside the slot, unless you have a really good setup, or the tool holder could be ruined. I had to modify my Aloris threading tool by machining off 0.050" off the bottom of the tool holder. Was irritated to do this to a brand new tool holder, but it solved the identical problem as the OP. Some Grizzly compounds are simply too tall to use unmodified AXA tool holders that meet Aloris's original spec. I have several tool holders that are ground down similarly, and all function well.

 

[epanzella]

I respectfully disagree. (Or maybe we are saying the same thing in very different ways.) The compound is too high. An easy way to fix the problem is to chuck the tool holder in a 4 jaw chuck, and turn the bottom of the tool holder. I'd bet HSS might be good enough. The bottom surface is non-critical. Even an angle grinder would be ok. Or a belt sander. Take off just enough to make it work. Don't machine inside the slot, unless you have a really good setup, or the tool holder could be ruined. I had to modify my Aloris threading tool by machining off 0.050" off the bottom of the tool holder. Was irritated to do this to a brand new tool holder, but it solved the identical problem as the OP. Some Grizzly compounds are simply too tall to use unmodified AXA tool holders that meet Aloris's original spec. I have several tool holders that are ground down similarly, and all function well.

Although what you're proposing would work it will take much more time and skill to accomplish for a beginner. I've milled the slots in tool holders many times to hold larger tooling and even used my QCTH as a small milling attachment. Milling 1/16" off the bottom of the slot is a piece of cake. It's quick, rigid, plumb and easy to get great results even for a nubie. I even modified a tool holder for milling slightly larger parts and used it for years before getting my mill. (see attached)

 

[WobblyHand]

Although what you're proposing would work it will take much more time and skill to accomplish for a beginner. I've milled the slots in tool holders many times to hold larger tooling and even used my QCTH as a small milling attachment. Milling 1/16" off the bottom of the slot is a piece of cake. It's quick, rigid, plumb and easy to get great results even for a nubie. I even modified a tool holder for milling slightly larger parts and used it for years before getting my mill. (see attached)

Not trying to have a flame war, so please don't take it this way. I will continue to respectfully disagree. Still think this would be darn near fool proof doing it as follows.

OP has a 4 jaw. Remove adjusting screw from tool holder. Put tool holder in 4 jaw, bottom facing outwards. Tighten 4 jaw. Doesn't have to be that well centered, because it's rectangular. Set lathe to slow speed. Face the bottom of the tool holder. Remove what is needed. I guess if there is no 3/8" lathe bit, that would be a problem. For a guy with no mill (I think) he won't have an end mill either. If he is an a real pickle, with respect to the lathe bit, I'd be glad to grind a free HSS tool in 3/8".

I don't have pictures yet, but if required, I can show how to set it up.

 

[WobblyHand]

Here are some pictures on my lathe. I just did one, for the heck of it. I have a few tool holders (bought used along with the lathe) that were ground off with a grinder. I just turned one of the them. Pretty straightforward, even for someone like me, who has a whopping couple of years experience at this.

Remove the screw from the top of the holder. I unscrewed mine using a 5 mm hex wrench. Open up two opposite jaws of the 4 jaw up pretty wide, the other jaws not so wide. Kind of like this. Try to get it roughly centered using the rings on the chuck as a guide. You want the horizontal jaws (in this picture) to end up at the same ring spacing for both jaws. It also helps to tap the tool holder into the lathe chuck so the top of the tool holder (not shown) is flush with the face of the chuck.

You want to make sure that the workpiece is supported on the narrow side by both edges of the chuck, as in these two pictures.

Make sure the workpiece is supported on both sides on the narrow face. Tighten the jaws evenly all around. Now make sure that we don't get in trouble by protruding jaws. Check your clearance from the outside jaw tips to your ways. We don't want any excitement!

At least on my lathe, with a 6" 4 jaw chuck, there is plenty of clearance. Make sure you have enough clearance before going to the next step!

I used a 1/2" tool with a tough insert in it to do the facing. Here is the tool. Use something similar. We really don't need a super finish, we are just removing some stock.

With the lathe off, set up the tool at the outside edge of the tool holder, with the insert touching the bottom of the tool holder. Lock your carriage. Retract the slide. Set up your lathe to your slowest RPM. In my case, I set it to 100 RPM. Always a good idea, when starting out with a freshly chucked piece in a 4 jaw. Turn on the lathe. Advance the slide and face off the bottom of the tool holder. Here is a picture of only cutting in a little bit. You can see the circular cuts.

Slowly feed in the cross-slide until you complete this pass. Should look something like the following.

This was a very light cut on my lathe. You can see it isn't fully flat yet. I may take another pass at it. For the OP, loosen the carriage lock and move the carriage towards the chuck another 0.010". Lock the carriage again. Face off the piece. Keep doing this until the piece is short enough. If you were a smart person, you would have already measured how much you need to take off! In any case, just cut off a little at a time, until you get used to the cutting action in your set up.

Since my 4 jaw was already on the lathe, it took me only a couple of minutes to do this. It's not very difficult, and is a nice way to get a flat surface using only a lathe. Hope this helps.

 

[epanzella]

The hard way or the easy way. It's the OP's call now.

 

[wilkerd1]

Here are some pictures on my lathe. I just did one, for the heck of it. I have a few tool holders (bought used along with the lathe) that were ground off with a grinder. I just turned one of the them. Pretty straightforward, even for someone like me, who has a whopping couple of years experience at this.

Remove the screw from the top of the holder. I unscrewed mine using a 5 mm hex wrench. Open up two opposite jaws of the 4 jaw up pretty wide, the other jaws not so wide. Kind of like this. Try to get it roughly centered using the rings on the chuck as a guide. You want the horizontal jaws (in this picture) to end up at the same ring spacing for both jaws. It also helps to tap the tool holder into the lathe chuck so the top of the tool holder (not shown) is flush with the face of the chuck.
View attachment 408905
You want to make sure that the workpiece is supported on the narrow side by both edges of the chuck, as in these two pictures.
View attachment 408906View attachment 408907
Make sure the workpiece is supported on both sides on the narrow face. Tighten the jaws evenly all around. Now make sure that we don't get in trouble by protruding jaws. Check your clearance from the outside jaw tips to your ways. We don't want any excitement!
View attachment 408908
At least on my lathe, with a 6" 4 jaw chuck, there is plenty of clearance. Make sure you have enough clearance before going to the next step!

I used a 1/2" tool with a tough insert in it to do the facing. Here is the tool. Use something similar. We really don't need a super finish, we are just removing some stock.
View attachment 408909
With the lathe off, set up the tool at the outside edge of the tool holder, with the insert touching the bottom of the tool holder. Lock your carriage. Retract the slide. Set up your lathe to your slowest RPM. In my case, I set it to 100 RPM. Always a good idea, when starting out with a freshly chucked piece in a 4 jaw. Turn on the lathe. Advance the slide and face off the bottom of the tool holder. Here is a picture of only cutting in a little bit. You can see the circular cuts.
View attachment 408910
Slowly feed in the cross-slide until you complete this pass. Should look something like the following.
View attachment 408911
This was a very light cut on my lathe. You can see it isn't fully flat yet. I may take another pass at it. For the OP, loosen the carriage lock and move the carriage towards the chuck another 0.010". Lock the carriage again. Face off the piece. Keep doing this until the piece is short enough. If you were a smart person, you would have already measured how much you need to take off! In any case, just cut off a little at a time, until you get used to the cutting action in your set up.

Since my 4 jaw was already on the lathe, it took me only a couple of minutes to do this. It's not very difficult, and is a nice way to get a flat surface using only a lathe. Hope this helps.

Thank you for the detail pics and steps!! That’s suuuper helpful!

Once I get brave enough I want to try that!


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