# Recent purchase of PM-932 and PM-1236



## CalRon (Feb 28, 2017)

A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.

But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.


Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.





I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.




Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
View attachment 253544


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## brasssmanget (Feb 28, 2017)

Looks like a very nice setup. Should be fun continuing on with your hobby using top notch tools and machinery. Best of luck!


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## Bob Korves (Feb 28, 2017)

Those should be fine machines for you.  You might also consider finding a mentor in your area who you can get hands on help and advice from.  YouTube and this forum can only go so far, and hobby machining is often a lonely sport as well...

Edit:  There are a lot of important things going on in machining that you can not really see from videos and forums.  The choice of sequence of operations is just one of them, comprehensive safety practices is another.


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## CalRon (Feb 28, 2017)

Thanks.

Unfortunately, I really don't know anybody who works with these kind of machines except one guy I work with, but he's retiring soon and plans on moving out of state.  May have to pick his brain before he takes off?


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## Todd_71 (Feb 28, 2017)

Nice setup!  Lath is next on my list but that may be a ways off.  I've had the same experience with Precision Matthews as well so far.  Extremely responsive to email questions even post purchase.
I'm in the same boat as you with lack of experience, but learning fast from the resources on the Internet.  Bob that as good suggestion.   Need to invite you up to show me a thing or two.


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## Muskt (Feb 28, 2017)

Hi CalRon.
I have a 1236 & 932PDF.  I am fairly comfortable with both--not my first machines.  
I will be glad to assist you in any way I can.  You can PM me, if you like, & I can give you my email.
I do not claim to be an expert, but more of an advanced amateur.

Best to you
Jerry in Delaware


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## CalRon (Feb 28, 2017)

Muskt - Thank you very much.  I will definitely contact you if I have any questions, which I'm sure I will!


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## BFHammer (Feb 28, 2017)

CalRon,

Congrats and thanks for sharing the pics.  I have a PM932-PDF and a PM1236 on order right now. 

Look forward to seeing how like yours - keep the pics coming!

Mark


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## Bob Korves (Feb 28, 2017)

Todd_71 said:


> Nice setup!  Lath is next on my list but that may be a ways off.  I've had the same experience with Precision Matthews as well so far.  Extremely responsive to email questions even post purchase.
> I'm in the same boat as you with lack of experience, but learning fast from the resources on the Internet.  Bob that as good suggestion.   Need to invite you up to show me a thing or two.


Sure. Anytime, Todd.


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## CalRon (Feb 28, 2017)

BFHammer said:


> CalRon,
> 
> Congrats and thanks for sharing the pics.  I have a PM932-PDF and a PM1236 on order right now.
> 
> ...



You are in good hands.  Matt and his crew went above and beyond to help me out, and Im 100% positive they will do the same for you.  Enjoy and post some pictures of your setup as well!


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## tweinke (Feb 28, 2017)

From the viewpoint of an absolute amateur, you can get  help here easily. I find a lot of my answers right here in the various forums and especially the member projects that have been written up by the awesome guys here. The projects may not necessarily be something I would build but the processes that are used are applicable to things I may try. Find a book about lathe work and milling that can get you started and make some chips!


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## tweinke (Feb 28, 2017)

CalRon, there is only one downfall with this site....... the guys here are always willing to help you blow the budget if you give them a chance!


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## chargerman111 (Mar 2, 2017)

Nice setup. I just recently purchased a PM14X40E LB from Matt in Pittsburgh.  Your right about the customer service, it's second to none. I am actually headed to Quality Machine Tools tomorrow to pick up my machine. I will post a review soon .

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Falcody (Mar 4, 2017)

A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.

But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.


Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.





I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.




Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
View attachment 253544


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## CalRon (Mar 4, 2017)

Falcody said:


> Just be aware that when you put oil on the part you are turning, it will sling up on your flag.. Just sayin'



I was afraid that may happen if I was to keep the flag there.  I haven't used the lathe yet, but from watching Youtube videos, you can see stuff flies everywhere.  I will definitely move the flag somewhere else in my garage, want to make sure I protect it from any filth.

Thank you for taking notice and mentioning it.  Nice to see others share the same pride!


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## Falcody (Mar 4, 2017)

I was just pointing it out. My Logan slung oil off the chuck all over my new white shop wall. Just didn't want to see you repeat my boo boo!


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## chargerman111 (Mar 5, 2017)

A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.

But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.


Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.




I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.




Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
View attachment 253544


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## chargerman111 (Mar 5, 2017)

A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.

But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.


Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.




I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.




Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
View attachment 253544


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## woodchucker (Mar 5, 2017)

CalRon said:


> I was afraid that may happen if I was to keep the flag there.  I haven't used the lathe yet, but from watching Youtube videos, you can see stuff flies everywhere.  I will definitely move the flag somewhere else in my garage, want to make sure I protect it from any filth.
> 
> Thank you for taking notice and mentioning it.  Nice to see others share the same pride!


The mill does not fling it that high, the lathe definitely up and around.  I like it keep it close, but keep it safe.

BTW welcome and keep safe.   Nice machinery.... Go slow, think, think.   
BTW you can turn a tool over in the lathe and cut from in to out.. so if threading an interior , you may want to turn the tool over and cut from deepest to out, to avoid crashing. It's a  nice way to cut, no rush, no nerves.

And always remember there are many ways to do the same job, SOME ABSOLUTELY WRONG, but many that will do it correctly. So just because someone does it one way, does not mean another way is wrong. We all learn from different mentors, or learn on our own, and each becomes comfortable with what we have success with.  The better machinists will try different ways and realize that in certain situations, certain metals, that one may be better over another.  
The ones that are wrong are wrong because of safety, because of risk.. Any good machinist will find a safer way of doing something of high risk, they will make sure the part is fixed up tight, so it can't fly off under pressure.  They will jig up something taking more time to make a jig to secure the piece, that it will take to actually do the cutting on the real part.  This is important, because it allows for accuracy and safety. Don't be afraid to build a tool(jig) to get the job done. You'll ruin less pieces doing so.


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## ssaxer1 (Mar 5, 2017)

We have four of the PM-1236 lathes in the student machine shop I manage for a university. They have been great machines and stand up well to the abuse from heavy handed students. I do find that we tend to go through motor capacitors on a regular basis and the cross slide nuts need to be adjusted about once a year.  We have had these machines (as well as 4-PM 935TS mills equipped with VFD's) for a couple of years and are pretty happy with them. We run quick change tool posts and mostly inserted cutters (easier to change inserts than grinding tools all day).


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## JR49 (Mar 5, 2017)

ssaxer1 said:


> We have four of the PM-1236 lathes in the student machine shop I manage for a university.



Ssaxer1,  just read your post about you working for a university and casually went over to the left to see where you live, and HOLY C--P !!  I live in Lakeside also.  Nice to know there is a fellow "hobby machinist" so close (although, with all the great members here, I feel close to all).  Happy Machining,  JR49


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## chargerman111 (Mar 22, 2017)

I just recently bought a PM1440LB and I love it. I got more for the money than if I went Grizzly.  I made the right choice going with PM.  I recommend them to anyone hobby or production.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## mksj (Mar 22, 2017)

Nice machines.

On the lathe if it does not come with a shield guard, I would seriously look at getting some form of Lexan shield. I use this one from Flexbar which is a medium. Prior to the shield oil and swarf went everywhere. Polycarbonate plastic also will not shatter like acrylic, so adds a safety factor if something (small) lets go. The shield is easily detachable, so about once a month it gets taken off and cleaned.
http://www.flexbar.com/shop/pc/LATHEGUARD-MEDIUM-89p3525.htm
http://www.penntoolco.com/13061


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## CalRon (Mar 23, 2017)

chargerman111 said:


> I just recently bought a PM1440LB and I love it. I got more for the money than if I went Grizzly.  I made the right choice going with PM.  I recommend them to anyone hobby or production.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



Nice man, I definitely think you made the right decision going with PM over Grizzly.  Glad to hear you like your 1440LB.  I really like that yours comes with a cast iron stand.  I wish the stand on the 1236 was beefier.  

My lathe seems to have a lot more vibration than I thought it would.  When the chuck spins, there is enough vibration to cause the DRO to shake pretty noticeably and Im wondering if Id have an even better finish with less vibration.  The vibration may be due to the rubber feet I'm using.  Maybe I need to rest it on something more solid?


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## darkzero (Mar 23, 2017)

CalRon said:


> My lathe seems to have a lot more vibration than I thought it would.  When the chuck spins, there is enough vibration to cause the DRO to shake pretty noticeably and Im wondering if Id have an even better finish with less vibration.  The vibration may be due to the rubber feet I'm using.  Maybe I need to rest it on something more solid?



I had the same issue but mine didn't shake the DRO display noticeabley. I had all rubber feet also, 8 of them which is overkill. I ended up replacing 4 of them with solid mounts. Made a huge difference for me. I too wish it had a beefier stand but I'm fine with it now for the most part.

Details in post #2 here (sorry it's at the end of the post, I copied most of that thread over from another forum I posted on so many of the posts are consolidated): http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/my-pm1236.11475/#post-94082


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## chargerman111 (Mar 24, 2017)

Wow, you have a nice looking lathe. Mine does have a guard for the chuck . I may build  a little bit better one or modify the stock one a little. Over all though it's not too bad .
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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## LEM (Mar 24, 2017)

Just noticed the bottle opener on the wall above your lathe.  Made me smile.


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## CalRon (Mar 24, 2017)

darkzero said:


> I had the same issue but mine didn't shake the DRO display noticeabley. I had all rubber feet also, 8 of them which is overkill. I ended up replacing 4 of them with solid mounts. Made a huge difference for me. I too wish it had a beefier stand but I'm fine with it now for the most part.
> 
> Details in post #2 here (sorry it's at the end of the post, I copied most of that thread over from another forum I posted on so many of the posts are consolidated): http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/my-pm1236.11475/#post-94082



Thanks for your help.  Your threads are very informative and they helped me decide to buy these machines, plus a few other little tools I must admit.  Wife wasn't too happy, but I feel it's money well spent.  

I noticed my lathe is standing taller than yours by an inch or two.  Maybe if I shorten the bolts to lower the lathe, it will help reduce some vibration? When I attach the 8" 4 jaw chuck, the vibration is reduced significantly.  I hate using the 4 jaw chuck though, takes forever to center the piece.  I will definitely try to make 4 solid mounts like you did.  Hopefully that will do the trick.


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## Bob Korves (Mar 24, 2017)

CalRon said:


> (snip)I hate using the 4 jaw chuck though, takes forever to center the piece.(snip)


Take the time and get more practice with the four jaw.  Use the rings on the face for rough centering.  Then use a simple mantra to keep it moving the right way.  I use "clockwise to push the part away, counter clockwise to pull it back" on an O.D. with the indicator on the work in the same clock position as I am using the chuck key from.  A little practice focusing on achieving a simple spatial understanding of what is going on will rapidly make things go better for you.  Just chasing numbers and clock positions is a disaster...


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## CalRon (Mar 24, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> Take the time and get more practice with the four jaw.  Use the rings on the face for rough centering.  Then use a simple mantra to keep it moving the right way.  I use "clockwise to push the part away, counter clockwise to pull it back" on an O.D. with the indicator on the work in the same clock position as I am using the chuck key from.  A little practice focusing on achieving a simple spatial understanding of what is going on will rapidly make things go better for you.  Just chasing numbers and clock positions is a disaster...



Is it better to use a dial indicator instead of a dial test indicator?  I've been trying to use my dial test indicator to clock the piece and its been a nightmare.


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## Bob Korves (Mar 24, 2017)

Both style indicators will work.  Starting with a .0001" indicator will be a problem, and many DTIs have a fairly low total travel range, which requires better rough centering.  A standard 1" dial indicator is the common choice, move it in a couple revolutions and get to work.


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## Bob Korves (Mar 24, 2017)

I have trouble sometimes with my Bestest .0001 indicator because it reads backwards from other indicators.  It is a very fine DTI, just need to get my head in the right place to use it.  Switching to indicating I.D.'s can also get confusing until you get the correct mantra for the job at hand in your mind.


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## CalRon (Mar 24, 2017)

Thanks a lot.  I've been using my Interapid .0005" DTI when trying to clock/center the piece.  Everyone in the videos I watch on Youtube use a dial indicator instead, so I wasn't sure if I was using the wrong tool for the job.  I will play around with it a little more and maybe buy a dial indicator to see if it makes the job any easier.


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## jbolt (Mar 24, 2017)

Like Bob suggested, use the rings on the chuck face for rough centering. Best to start with a dial indicator or TDI with a larger range to get it within a few thou and then a TDI to finish.

I start with a 0-15-0 TDI to get within a thou or two and then move to a 0-4-0 TDI to finish. Also I have the jaws marked so I will rough in one plane at a time, say between jaws 1 & 3 and then do 2 & 4. Once you have a rough center it is just simple math to fine tune.


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## wlburton (Mar 24, 2017)

CalRon said:


> I was afraid that may happen if I was to keep the flag there.  I haven't used the lathe yet, but from watching Youtube videos, you can see stuff flies everywhere.  I will definitely move the flag somewhere else in my garage, want to make sure I protect it from any filth.
> 
> Thank you for taking notice and mentioning it.  Nice to see others share the same pride!


Just move it around the corner to the right and it will be fine.  Or you could get a little smaller flag and put a sheet of plexiglass over it. 

Bill


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## CalRon (Mar 25, 2017)

I played around with the lathe a little bit more today.  Im trying to figure out how to reduce the vibration.  I think Im going to chop 2" off the bolts so that I can lower the stand a couple inches.  That may help give a little more support?  I will probably make some solid mounts for it down the road sometime as well.

Other than that, I played around with the gears.  I noticed that I get the most vibration from two gears.  B2 (330rpm) makes the stand feel like its wobbling as if the piece in the chuck is off center.  A3 (700rpm) causes the machine to shake enough that the DRO shakes as well.  All the other speeds, both faster and lower, seem to operate pretty similar with little vibration and pretty smooth. 

What Im describing with B2 and A3 gears isn't that extreme, but causes noticeably more vibration/movement than the other gears.  It may or may not effect the finish, but Im not doing anything that intricate where I think I would notice the difference.


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## Sleddog (Mar 25, 2017)

I received & installed mine a week ago. I'm pretty impressed with how smooth it is.


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## CalRon (Mar 25, 2017)

Sleddog said:


> I received & installed mine a week ago. I'm pretty impressed with how smooth it is.



Yours definitely seems smoother operating than mine.  I put a nickel on mine and it starts to spin around from the vibration.  Is your lathe resting on solid ground or did you level it with leveling feet?


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## Sleddog (Mar 25, 2017)

It's leveled using 3" x 3" x 1/2" pads. I drilled 3/4" dimples in the pads then used 5/8" x 2" bolts for leveling.


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## CalRon (Mar 25, 2017)

Sleddog said:


> It's leveled using 3" x 3" x 1/2" pads. I drilled 3/4" dimples in the pads then used 5/8" x 2" bolts for leveling.



Thanks man, thats a lot of help.  My stand is elevated about 3-3 1/2" off the floor and the same diameter  bolts as you.  I think if I lower it, it will stabilize better.  Are your pads solid or rubber? Mine are rubber similar to hockey pucks.


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## Sleddog (Mar 25, 2017)

They are solid.


When I initially set up my Mill I used *THESE *I couldn't get it to stabilize. I think the rubber flexed too much.  I switched to solid mounts & cured the problem. 

When I say solid.... the bolts are not screwed into the 3" x 3" plate. The plate has a dimple drilled into it, the face of the bolt sits in the dimple. This way, if the floor is uneven, the plate will make full contact with the floor & the bolt face sits into the dimple.

I hope you get it sorted out.....


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## darkzero (Mar 25, 2017)

CalRon said:


> Thanks for your help.  Your threads are very informative and they helped me decide to buy these machines, plus a few other little tools I must admit.  Wife wasn't too happy, but I feel it's money well spent.
> 
> I noticed my lathe is standing taller than yours by an inch or two.  Maybe if I shorten the bolts to lower the lathe, it will help reduce some vibration? When I attach the 8" 4 jaw chuck, the vibration is reduced significantly.  I hate using the 4 jaw chuck though, takes forever to center the piece.  I will definitely try to make 4 solid mounts like you did.  Hopefully that will do the trick.



No problem, that's why I post the threads. Yeah I've been known to help people spend their money. Don't tell your while who I am though. 

Generally it's not a good idea to lift a lathe or mill high off the ground just using the length of studs. Like my mill, I didn't like how low it sat so instead of jacking it up with the leveling pads, I built a riser base for it.

I was taught to set spindle centerline you your elbow height. Everyone has their own preference but this works very well for me. That way it's no so low where you are bending over constantly but still high enough so you can get an aerial view of the workpiece.

I was curious so I placed a nickel on my headstock, I ran it in every gear & the nickel doesn't move at all. Take your 3-jaw chuck off & test again. If it runs smooth, check the runout on the body of your chuck.

As for indicating with a 4 jaw, lots of guys use dial indicators cause it has a larger face so it's easier to read. I use the same, I use a .001" dial indicator w/ 1/2" travel. If I really need high precision then I'll use a test indicator but usually not needed, the thou resolution is good enough. Unless you're making parts for NASA, a DTI is just going to mess with your head & make you chase the needle around trying to get it to move as least as possible.

I place my indicator at the 9 o'clock position, easy to read cause the face is right in front of you. Tighten your highs, loosen your lows. If you have a part that has a poor surface finish or not very round so you indicator bounces all over the place, just 4 point it, or in other words just indicate at every jaw position.


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## CalRon (Mar 26, 2017)

I took the chuck off and the lathe still vibrated the same as it did with the chuck installed.
I decided to chop the bolts so that I could lower the lathe 1 1/2" or so.  The lathe sits lower to the ground and is much more stable now.  The vibration is definitely reduced.  I will replace a couple of the MLS-1000 mounts with some solid mounts sometime soon to see if that will reduce the vibration any more.  

Thanks for your help.


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## tweinke (Mar 26, 2017)

keep us posted on your results!


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