# Identify This 10EE With Only A Picture Game



## Charlieman22 (Jul 25, 2021)

Hi all,
Looking at a 10EE and very little info available.
Description says "it cuts accurately for an old girl".
Scant - but that's what we got.
There are also two pictures.

Seller is tough to contact - perhaps not so computer savvy.
Hard to know - but judging by the two pictures and lack of responses - I get that sense.
Wondering if anyone can tease out some information or insights from these two pictures.

One pic shows the cross feed very close to the chuck.
My assumption is - this is one that allows that?
One question I have - It also says its a 1942 - but its a square dial - were they made in '42?

Price seems right - ~ $3300
-CM


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## rabler (Jul 25, 2021)

Vintage machinery has what is catalogued as a 1945 brochure on the 10EE, that shows a lathe matching this configuration:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/19749.pdf

The lower door and power switch match.  Looks like the half nut lever is wired up which is suggestive of a problem there.  Also looks like a shop-made carriage dial?

Looks like a decent amount of tooling.  Of course more important than the year is the condition of the ways, and if it runs.  They can be converted to an AC motor w/ VFD of course.


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## Charlieman22 (Jul 25, 2021)

Rabler,
Good sleuthing. Thank you!
I’m new to this myself - but of course not so new as to covet a 10EE…

I suspected it’s a ‘45 or later.
Your find strengthens that view.
Ad said running and picture suggests it’s in use. 
Same seller has a mill also for sale. Appears he is getting rid of his equipment.

Any others see clues or misdemeanors?

Thanks!
-CM


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## rabler (Jul 25, 2021)

Not quite sure what you are referring to with "cross feed close to chuck".  Most lathes will allow you to move the carriage far enough to the left that the chuck and carriage/toolpost collide (crash).  Different chucks, such as collet chucks, or turning between centers, stick out farther from the spindle nose, so there isn't really a good mechanical way to prevent this.


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## Charlieman22 (Jul 25, 2021)

Well - that makes two of us...
In my crash course of internet digging - I read a thread about doing a test on the ways for the 10EE.
The explanation was cryptic - but basically said - if you run your thumb nail on the inside of the ways and you feel a small ledge - it was an indication of a desirable trait - denoting a machine with longer travel.
Coming at this from 40K feet - so I stored that in the back of my head and kept moving.
Didn't make any more sense to me then than now.

The seller posted two images.
For the life of me - was not really sure what the second image was depicting - and wonder(ed) if he is trying to indicate something/why he posted that pic.
I figured this was perhaps an "in the know" image showing the travel I had read about.
Sounds like I need to file that one in the "inaccurate info" can.
Still wonder a bit why that picture.

In any event:
One thing about posting here and getting dialog is you never know what you will learn/ have debunked.
Small comments can lead to details you might not otherwise know you should even ask about.
Thanks for catching that and asking.
Helpful.

 - CM


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## Ulma Doctor (Jul 26, 2021)

for 3300, expect some work on your part.
but once up to snuff, the lathe will be useful for years to come.
most parts are still available


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## rabler (Jul 26, 2021)

Charlieman22 said:


> In my crash course of internet digging - I read a thread about doing a test on the ways for the 10EE.
> The explanation was cryptic - but basically said - if you run your thumb nail on the inside of the ways and you feel a small ledge - it was an indication of a desirable trait - denoting a machine with longer travel.



Monarch did make a longer bed version of this lathe, rare and valuable. 

Fingernail test: The ways of a Monarch lathe are hardened, but will still wear.  A problem with the carriage oil system will accelerate this.  The front inverted V, on the surface toward the inside of the bed, is the surface most prone to wear.  Often lathes are used with toolpost fairly close to the chuck, so the wear occurs more there.  You can use a fingernail to feel for any slight ridges from wear, and compare along the length of the bed as the extreme ends are unlikely to have worn. 

Much more likely to experience wear is the underside of the carriage since it is not hardened.  This typically causes the V way to widen near the ends, so that the carriage "racks" slightly, that is it sits at a very slight angle that changes depending on which move the carriage.

In most cases these are fairly small errors and probably of little consequence to a beginning hobbyist unless extreme.   They can be fixed but not trivial or cheap, as fixing worn ways requires the lathe bed to be reground.

Almost all older Monarchs benefit from having the oil system cleaned.   There are two main oil systems that are completely independent.  The headstock has an oil reservoir, as does the carriage apron.  The carriage apron system is what oils the ways, and cross slide.  It often needs work as it tends to plug up as crud accumulates inside the apron. 

I would *guess* this is a motor generator model.  The 10EE's were built with a DC motor turning the spindle.  The advantage of a DC motor is a wide RPM range with good torque across that range.  The problem is that home and industrial power is AC.  The older 10EEs used a AC motor to turn a DC generator, and then that DC power drove a DC motor with some controls involved.  So the cabinet underneath the lathe is packed with electronics including the AC motor, generator, and DC motor.  

Obviously a complete description of the 10EE and its maintenance is beyond a single post ...  Practical Machinist has a wealth of information on the 10EE, but isn't the friendliest forum, especially for newcomers.


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## Charlieman22 (Jul 26, 2021)

rabler said:


> Obviously a complete description of the 10EE and its maintenance is beyond a single post ... Practical Machinist has a wealth of information on the 10EE, but isn't the friendliest forum, especially for newcomers.


Chuckled at that.
Much appreciated the insights as well as a friendly head's up.
I've done some reading there - and know there is a community of highly knowledgable.
A few very nice restores have been done and documented.



rabler said:


> Fingernail test: The ways of a Monarch lathe are hardened, but will still wear. A problem with the carriage oil system will accelerate this. The front inverted V, on the surface toward the inside of the bed, is the surface most prone to wear. Often lathes are used with toolpost fairly close to the chuck, so the wear occurs more there. You can use a fingernail to feel for any slight ridges from wear, and compare along the length of the bed as the extreme ends are unlikely to have worn.
> 
> Much more likely to experience wear is the underside of the carriage since it is not hardened. This typically causes the V way to widen near the ends, so that the carriage "racks" slightly, that is it sits at a very slight angle that changes depending on which move the carriage.


This will be an area of focus.

$3300 for a 10EE in our area is a low price.
I expect the machine would need restoring - and would not have a conversion drive system in it.  Agreed.
With the cryptic one sentence description, non-responsive seller, and added risk of being an Ebay listing, I decided to...
Buy it sight unseen.

Yup.  Pushed the "buy now" button and got the confirmation.
But before anyone jumps to the obvious conclusions about the uncareful nature of my approach, there were some extenuating circumstances I offer in my defense.

 - I am not really putting the entire $3300 at risk - just feels that way.  The true risk is mostly my time.  The parts alone could likely fetch some if not all of that asking price back for me.
 - At this price - someone will scoop it quickly.  Had the seller been responsive - I suspect other's would have already snagged it.  
 - I have a 3 month truck lease coming to an end in a few weeks.  It's a 2500 deisel ram that can easily tow this home - while I still have the truck.  I've recently moved a 4300 lb mill - so I have a sense of the challenges.  
 - I really want a 10EE...

Seller has not confirmed the purchase - so this all may be moot and I may never see it - but Ebay will protect my money if that's the case.
If I pick it up and find it's just too worn out or too big a project - I will re-sell to someone who wants to dive in deeper - hell, I could just keep it on the trailer and deliver it.

So my plan, assuming the seller confirms the sale, is to pick it up, then inspect it.
Ways and drive system are my two largest concerns.
Will start a thread and ask for some help in ascertaining it's viability.
Sound's backwards - but there is some method to my madness.

-CM


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## rabler (Jul 26, 2021)

I don't fault you in the least, that is valid approach.  And you have correctly analyzed and accepted the risks.
I'm in the process of rebuilding a 10EE myself, although it has stalled due to some other things happening.  I paid about the same for it.  Certainly be happy to share what I know if you have questions, but I'm certainly not an expert.


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## extropic (Jul 26, 2021)

@Charlieman22 

You've made a remarkable transition in the last few months. Very uncommon.

Congratulations on the 10EE. I hope it works out (not parts out).
If you haven't read rabler's thread on his 10EE, including custom power supply build, it's recommended reading.

One comment regarding secure transportation. I didn't mention it at the time because you got it home without incident, however your pictures of the mill on the trailer, showing only two straps, activated my pucker switch (still does, thinking about it). Please invest in at least four additional straps for the Monarch.


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## Charlieman22 (Jul 26, 2021)

Thanks gents.
Rabler - off to find your thread.

Extropic - Steep learning curve... still harvesting bits and pieces of what you shared with me to help me press forward.
In fact - part of my desire for the 10EE (other than its beauty and accuracy) is the potential compatibility with my mill.
Would be nice to utilize an ER 40 collet chuck - so I can share tooling and go deep on those for example.
Let's hope this thing comes through - until it is on my trailer - there is always risk the seller could change their mind - or the like.



extropic said:


> your pictures of the mill on the trailer, showing only two straps, activated my pucker switch


Well stated.

I actually had chains at the front, so it was tied to all 4 corners.
The straps were more evident as they were yellow and on the back - and wrapped on top of the chains - but the thing was in fact solid as a rock - for which I am thankful given the state of some of the roads I came back on.

In any event - good reminder not to be cavalier on that front.


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## extropic (Jul 27, 2021)

Be sure to collect any accessories the seller has to fit the lathe.
Is there a collet chuck or collet closer? What about collets? Steady rest? Follow rest? Four Jaw chuck? Drive plate? Face Plate? Tailstock accessories?

Good Luck.


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## rabler (Jul 27, 2021)

Be prepared, a 10EE weighs about 3500 lbs.   The two covers on the headstock end are prone to falling off and cracking.  best to remove them before moving the lathe.  The cross web between the ways nearest the headstock is a good place to run a strap for lifting.


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## Charlieman22 (Jul 27, 2021)

Quick update - should anyone be loosing sleep... 
This one will go on hold for a couple of weeks.
Seller is out of state - so pick up will have to wait.
Assuming it doesn't fall through - the delay will have done me a favor.
Have entirely too many projects on the go right now - including this one:


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## Charlieman22 (Jul 27, 2021)

rabler said:


> Be prepared, a 10EE weighs about 3500 lbs. The two covers on the headstock end are prone to falling off and cracking. best to remove them before moving the lathe. The cross web between the ways nearest the headstock is a good place to run a strap for lifting.


Rabler - Thank you.
I have begun to do a bit of research to hatch a moving plan.
The mill I moved was 4300 lbs - with what seamed like 4299 of those lbs in the head.
I had a successful and secure move - however - I had time to visit/ a super cooperative seller/  and a custom rolling cradle I built.
 (30 seconds of fun here of the unloading: 



 )

This move will be tougher in some matters.
Any advice/critiquing appreciated.
My current/simplest plan:
1.  A drop bed trailer - this was a huge difference maker with the mill move.
2.  A come along
3.  2@ 4' long 4x6's
4.  Some blocking, a long pry bar, and a car jack
5.  A 2 ton palet jack

From what I have read, there are three holes on the bottom of the machine that will accept 5/8" bolts.
Can you confirm there are holes in the bottom of the machine like this?

My idea is to use the pry bar and wedges to lift the machine.
Then slide the 4x6's under, and lag bolt them in (is there room for a small electric impact drive above the holes?)
With the machine on the 4x6's, lift with pallet jack, lower trailer bed to ground, use come along to pull pallet jack and machine on to trailer.

Having never seen a 10EE in person - much less looked inside it - I don't really know if this is going to fly.
Thoughts?





 this video shows someone moving the machine on a pallet jack - in a reasonably stable manner - gave me the idea for it.


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## rabler (Jul 27, 2021)

Alot more compact then the mill but same weight range. 

There are three bolt holes in the base of mine.  It is of course a 20+ year later model so the door configuration changed, but I think you can get a battery impact driver in there.

The biggest danger is the lathe tipping forward or backward.  Helps to move it long way, inline with the bed.

I would suggest adding a good sized skate to your equipment.  Like one of these: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=machinery+skate&i=garden&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

Skate under tailstock.  Pallet jack under 4x6 from headstock end.

Maybe loop a rachet strap from the 4x6 over the bed to the 4x6 on the other side in addition to the lag bolts?  Especially on the tailstock end where there is only one bolthole.  Rather than lag bolts I strongly suggest long bolts all the way through the lumber from the bottom with fender washers and nuts.  Easier to secure, a simple ratcheting open ended wrench, and will hold better.

oxtools/Tom’s angle iron and all-thread wheels work pretty good under the headstock as another option


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## Charlieman22 (Jul 28, 2021)

Plenty of good things to consider in that.
Thank you.

Found same issue with the mill - completely unstable when lifted from the side - much better when lifted in the long axis.
Will take the other suggestions on board and think about options.
Simple is good - but only if it doesn't make it a powder keg risk.

Found a thread on using drop bed tailer with rolling bars under machine: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/another-way-move-10ee-100125/. Seems like bring some bars with me might also have some merit.

Also found this - posting here so I have it handy as I get closer.  Gives me the basic footprint.
Have my starting point. 
Will keep flipping stones but this should be enough to chew on to start - but all solutions will consider lifting on long axis rather than short.


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## Karl_T (Jul 28, 2021)

Charlieman22 said:


> From what I have read, there are three holes on the bottom of the machine that will accept 5/8" bolts.
> Can you confirm there are holes in the bottom of the machine like this?



I just bolted my 10EE to a skid for moving it 2000 miles.  Used 3/4 bolts on the three through holes


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## Charlieman22 (Jul 28, 2021)

Karl_T said:


> I just bolted my 10EE to a skid for moving it 2000 miles. Used 3/4 bolts on the three through holes


Thanks Karl.
What year/power system did your machine have?
Did you load it on the trailer yourself?


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## Karl_T (Jul 28, 2021)

It is about 1950s.  did not look up serial number for exact year.

It had an MGset. I pulled it all and replaced with a 10hp and VFD. Have a thread here on how it was done.









						Monarch 10EE rebuild  10Hp VFD no backgear
					

I bought my second 10EE a while back https://www.machinesused.com/lots/Monarch-10EE-Toolroom-Lathe-with-Taper-Attachment-and-Chucks-25097#bidNow  After playing with the existing DC motor and drive, I gave up on repairing it. I did not try super hard, not too excited about maintaining an antique...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




I am getting ready to rent a Penske truck for a 2K mile trip in a couple months. Will rent a fork truck to unload, have my own here.


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## Charlieman22 (Jul 28, 2021)

Karl_T said:


> I am getting ready to rent a Penske truck for a 2K mile trip in a couple months. Will rent a fork truck to unload, have my own here.


Wise.
The biggest risk you have with that is probably the quality of the seat and the risk of some subtle pull on the steering that leaves your neck sore at day's end!

Read through your threads.
Will be interested to see what's powering the one I purchased.
Your's is good reference for conversion.
Will be tempted to simplify and take the same path.

Thanks for sharing - and good luck with the move.
-CM


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## rabler (Jul 28, 2021)

I think an inverter duty motor and VFD is a very useful upgrade/conversion for just about any 10EE.  While it is hard to beat the DC motor for low end torque and overall speed range, the reality is they have way more power than any similar sized lathe, i.e. more power than is normally useful.


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## Charlieman22 (Jul 29, 2021)

Heard again from the seller today.
Surprised me with: "it does not include a taper attachment"
Bit out of left field - since the add title read: "10EE with taper attachment".
Offered to deal on price.
Will wait and see what that means.

I'm sure that would be enough for many to walk - which I may do.
But for now - would prefer to understand what level of unobtainable that may represent.
Have also asked for clarity on exactly what IS included in the sale.
Seems like a reasonable questions at this point.

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
-CM


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## Karl_T (Jul 29, 2021)

I have seen exactly one taper attachment for a 10EE on ebay over the years. $2K  and i bet they got it. Of course, i had to go $1200 for a taper attachment on my Leblond servo shift. AND I watched two years to get that.

Yep buy with attachment if you possibly can.


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## mksj (Jul 29, 2021)

As you stated, it is in the title, it is included in the sale. Since he does not state what is not included in the listing, I would have assumed what is in the picture is included with the lathe, lathe chuck, holders, tooling, drill chuck. Agree you need to define what is included, and lack of description and what is included, along with lack of communication would have made me walk unless it was in local driving distance. I would also want to verify in advance and when you get there that it is running. I would also leave negative feedback if he back out or reneges on the listing.

If you do not mind a complete rebuild, then you assume it is as is and will need a lot of work. Too many things are red flags in the listing, and having levers held in place with wire indicates it is going to take quite a bit of work, funds and time to repair. The rectifier diode tubes are pretty unobtainable and cost more than the lathe if you could find them, there are solid state replacements. Alternative is completer replacement AC vector motor drives with a VFD, a significant cost and time.








						C16J thyratron tube replacement
					

Products for home and building automation



					www.scissiocontrols.com


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## lordbeezer (Jul 29, 2021)

Good friend of many years has a ee. All accessories. 2-3 extra chucks. Steady rest. Collet chuck. Qctp. Made in 1944. Runs quite. Fast and slow. How much should I maybe offer. Don’t mean to piggy back


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## Charlieman22 (Jul 30, 2021)

Lordbeezer - feel free.  Looks like a nice lathe.  I'm jealous.
If you pass on it - please PM me.


Mksj - thanks.
You captured my thinking fairly well - I gave the understated version...
No one that has ever operated a lathe - even someone with my exceptionally narrow experience - would list a lathe and title it "10EE with taper attachment", if there was no taper attachment.
It's also been 5 days since I bought it - with multiple communications - and plenty of time. 
This is the first time that was mentioned that it didnt exist.

Did it ever exist?
Did he decide to sell it off after I bought the machine?
Doesn't really matter which.
Either way - it's not ok.

My experience - people who are going to screw you - are going to screw you.
Nothing you can do about that.
I'm moving cautiously on this one.
Much appreciated.
-CM


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## Choiliefan (Jul 30, 2021)

Probably not applicable to CA but here in NC, ask the seller if he is a deacon at his church.
If he says YES, run the other way, fast.


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## rabler (Aug 1, 2021)

The taper attachment interacts with the cross feed so you can't just pull the taper attachment off one lathe and ship it to someone as an add on to a non-taper attachment lathe.  You'd have to change out cross feed parts too, from one lathe to the other,  or you'd end up with one lathe or the other non-functional.  Just mentioning this so you know to check in detail what's left.

I could see some confusion if, for example, someone is selling out a relative's estate.  But without a clear sense of what is going on, I'd be nervous too.


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## Charlieman22 (Aug 1, 2021)

Thanks Rabler.  Wasn't aware.
Helpful - and likely means that machine is not destine to have a taper attachment.

A few unexpected moments this weekend.
I have a line on a second 10EE.
It's in service and looks to be a work horse in good overall shape.
It's not close - but others are helping me.
Will size up moving costs - they won't be insignificant - when the work week starts.

That machine has the taper attachment, and some solid tooling.
It has some form of power conversion - though I am not completely clear how they did it.
It was originally one of the machines with the generator.
I was told it would also do 1750 RPM - and that it somehow was using the original motor and a "bridge" and the "original motor"
If this is enough information for anyone to take a stab at explaining - I'd welcome it
Still drinking water from a fire hydrant on these.


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## Karl_T (Aug 1, 2021)

sounds like they have done some sort of DC drive replacement. There are many versions. Spend a day reading over on Practical machinist.

As you are learning buy the machine with everything you need and as much tooling as possible. Shipping is cheap compared to trying to source parts.

IMHO, sooner or later the DC drive on these very old machines needs to be replaced. Upgrade it to 3 phase VFD and it will run another 50 years.


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## mksj (Aug 2, 2021)

It may also might mean that they are using a 1750 RPM 3 phase motor and the bridge might be the front end of the original motor to the gearbox. Worth getting the details and some pictures. The challenge going the VFD route is either using a smaller motor (like 5 Hp) and mating that to the gear reduction box, or like Karl did and stuff a 10 Hp vector motor in a direct drive configuration. You need a big VFD and a big breaker to run it. You need to factor that into the budget vs. a functional running unit.

As far as taper attachments, they are nice to have, but speak to most people that have them and they will probably tell you they use them just a few times in many years.


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## Charlieman22 (Aug 2, 2021)

Thanks mksj.


mksj said:


> As far as taper attachments, they are nice to have, but speak to most people that have them and they will probably tell you they use them just a few times in many years.


Appreciate that point.  Have heard similar from others - but of course, we all like to have the accouterments...


mksj said:


> Karl did and stuff a 10 Hp vector motor in a direct drive configuration. You need a big VFD and a big breaker to run it. You need to factor that into the budget vs. a functional running unit.


Of the various solutions/configs I've read about - this one seems to go right at the heart in simple/reliable terms.  If I was holding a non running machine - I would probably opt for this approach - and it may be where I end up eventually.


mksj said:


> It may also might mean that they are using a 1750 RPM 3 phase motor and the bridge might be the front end of the original motor to the gearbox.


My understanding is, it's using the original DC motor with a bridge rectifier.  I think they've bypassed the generator with this set up - but still have it.
The machine is used regularly in this config - and works well - though it may not be as fancy as some solutions I've read about.  The 1750 RPM may be limited by the bridge rectifier and some inherent limitations that come with it - best I can decipher.

At the end of the day - this will go in my garage - and be used for projects related mostly to my Vespa.  For my use - it may be all I need as is.  Can't wait to find out.


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## rabler (Aug 5, 2021)

A lot of aftermarket DC drives don't accommodate the voltage that the 10EE DC motors were meant to run on, so that is a likely reason for the RPM limitation.


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## Charlieman22 (Aug 5, 2021)

rabler said:


> A lot of aftermarket DC drives don't accommodate the voltage that the 10EE DC motors were meant to run on, so that is a likely reason for the RPM limitation.


Have been doing my research.
Have a better sense of the many solutions that exist out there - and the limitation of many drives to a lower voltage than the motors are rated for.
That is my expectation - it being a drive that will not provide full voltage.
There is also the issue - I have learned - of needing a drive that knows when to reduce the field voltage to allow it to spin faster.
Working on a few pictures to figure out what is in the tail end and under the main catch tray (front doors and tail stock end doors cabinets).

Either way - it's not make or break.
The process of trying to understand what is in this machine is getting me educated on all the variables/options/gives/takes that exist with the retrofit solutions.

Thanks for weighing in.
More to come!


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## Karl_T (Aug 5, 2021)

Charlieman22 said:


> ...
> The process of trying to understand what is in this machine is getting me educated on all the variables/options/gives/takes that exist with the retrofit solutions.
> 
> Thanks for weighing in.
> More to come!


You have to be an EE  (electrical engineer) to understand the 10EE!


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## rabler (Aug 8, 2021)

Any news on the 10EE pursuits?


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## Charlieman22 (Aug 8, 2021)

Rabler - thanks for checking in.
Was just about to post - having buttoned up my existing project.
More about that in a minute.

As for the 10EE(s) I am pursuing.
After a very strange start - where I bought one blind on ebay - the seller eventually contacted me.
Turned out - he is just old school - not very computer literate - 85 years old - and out of town.
So the patience paid off.

That lathe - which you helped initially try to identify - turned out to be a 1961 square dial.
It has some use on it - but there are two reasons I didn't bail out.
1.  It had a tag on it that said "remanufactured by" and listed the company - they have been doing work for a long time here in LA.
2.  It also turned out to have a Sabina controller on it - that part was a shock.
It runs and drives remarkably.  Man it's smooth.  Original knobs control it.  Full breaking.  Full RPM.  Torquey low end speed.
( it uses a rotary 3 phase converter - which I am less sure about ).
The seller came down on price - after I bought it! - so I couldn't really say no.
More to follow on that one.

The other one I am pursuing is a round dial - apple of my eye.
I am trying to get the low down on how it is powered - it is single phase 220.
I am pondering the swap of the Sabina drive in the older round dial - but I will wait to make that determination.
The round dial is a '44ish and its a hike to get it here.
I've been flipping stones left and right to try and solve for the shipping.
Have some travel in about 10 days - and plan to go disassemble what I can - and palletize on two pallets for the shipping.
Getting some help from a member here - that has been a star.

So about that existing project I mentioned up front.
Never actually owned a lathe until 8 weeks ago - but have wanted one.
Wasn't really aware of the 10EE - in all its beauty and precision.
Perhaps if I had - I would have been on the hunt and waited.
But in rebuilding this Logan (below), I got to better understand the machines in general.
And about half way through - as everything was strewn around my garage on every surface - and I wondered if it would ever be back together - I realized - what I really want is a 10EE...

So... the Logan will go to a happy home somewhere.
New bushings, adjusted nicely, cleaned and painted, running quite well.
And tomorrow - I will drag home the first 10EE - the square dial with Sabina controls.


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## Charlieman22 (Aug 10, 2021)

So - I am the proud owner of a 1960 10EE.
Met the seller for the first time.
Seller turned out to be a great guy.
85 years old, has had this in his garage since 1977ish.
Gave me a hand as I prepped it - and then he and his wife insisted I come inside and join them for dinner before I left.

The loading was grueling - big job for one guy.
I fabricated some parts that made it much better - but blocking it prior - and then once loaded - was some work.
Of course - all the tooling and raw stock he gave me also added to the labor.

I rented a narrow long heavy duty pallet jack - that I didn't end up using at all.
Lifting and moving that was half the hassle!

I tabbed a rolling stand using some U channel and parts from some casters I had.
These are the axles - which held up great.



I had measured the holes on my scouting trip.  To avoid wrestling with it - I milled a slot for one of them*. 
* This is the first item I have ever milled.  Hahaha - I crack me up sometimes.  Babe in the woods...
	

		
			
		

		
	



I used a pry bar and stacked blocks to get it up heigh enough to mount.  Then bolted on the wheel frame.
The front wheel is a plate caster - but I added a stem on it.  This way - the machine sat flat on the plate - but the stem with bolt kept it from moving around.



Once the wheels were on - I was able to just roll it around.  The only thing I was really concerned about was it running away once I started loading on the trailer - so I put a Saftey strap on the back side and tied it to a mill he had in the garage.



I tried to buy a come along - but they were out of stock.  Some kinda run on come alongs I guess.
I had this remote control power winch - so I ended up using it.  I have it on an extending square tube - so it locks in on the (rented) truck bed's tied downs - and then I can just remove it.




Pulled right on - with no drama.  This was actually the easiest part.   Chaining down with those heavy chains and tensioners whipped my ass tho.


Seller then offered me any and all raw stock he had - which included some delrin rods, brass, aluminum and steel - so I grabbed it!



Buttoned up and ready to roll.


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## francist (Aug 10, 2021)

Cool! I was beginning to wonder if there really was going to be a lathe at the end of the story or not! 
Good on you for persevering, nice machine.


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## rabler (Aug 10, 2021)

Congratulations.  Now the fun begins.


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## Charlieman22 (Aug 10, 2021)

francist said:


> Cool! I was beginning to wonder if there really was going to be a lathe at the end of the story or not!
> Good on you for persevering, nice machine.


Frankly - wouldn't blame you if you had assumed I was making it all up.
Working now on the unload.


rabler said:


> Congratulations.  Now the fun begins.


Hahaha.  Indeed...


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## extropic (Aug 10, 2021)

This is the lathe that was described in the OP, right? Is this the one with the "rebuilt by" tag on it?
I'm always skeptical of war vintage machines. I figure they were run hard. Maybe not EEs. Maybe not this one. A quality '60s+ rebuild allays all fears.

It's pretty clear that you have the will and resources to get it in appropriate working order, whatever that requires.


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## Charlieman22 (Aug 10, 2021)

extropic said:


> This is the lathe that was described in the OP, right? Is this the one with the "rebuilt by" tag on it?


Yes. 
some surprises when I finally got the background - all of them good. 
1.  It is a 1960 not a 1945. 
2.  It was rebuilt by a professional shoo-in ‘71. 
3.  It was owned by one of the big aviation companies. They upgraded the electronics with the expensive Sabina solid state - likely at time of “remanufacture”
4.  The seller worked next door and new the guys at the aviation company. They tipped him off they were selling all the tool room lathes and getting new (aerospace…). He bought it from them and they delivered and set it up for him around 1975. 
5.  He has used it as a prototyping machine for building antennas. The scrap behind the machine was aluminum and plastic. His stock was same. Very little steel.

so it Probably saw some serious duty in the tool room in between it’s re-manufactured in 1971 and it’s sale sometime around 75 or 76, but since then it has had fairly light use.

TBH, I feel like I got a bit of a deal. The only thing I didn’t get (yet) was the rotary power converter - so I can’t run it.  

deciding if I am going to buy a solid-state one from Sabina or negotiate a reasonable deal on his used rotary one.

Believe it or not, I have a second one of these machines in the wings, and a harebrained scheme that involves using these fancy controls on the round dial one.

right now I’m garage cleaning and trying to figure out how to move the second machine.


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## Charlieman22 (Aug 13, 2021)

Been a strange journey.
Blindly bought a "Monarch 10EE with Taper Attachment" on Ebay.
Took days for seller to contact me - at which point he said there was no taper attachment...
Yikes!
Whole thing seemed headed south - when another member of this forum contacted me with a line on a round dial.
Yeah!
Was knee deep in securing the round dial when the seller of the square dial allowed me to come see it.
Figured I was on track to get both - but 3 days wrestling the first machine into my garage gave me pause.
Which brings us to here.

She is cleaned up and on wheels in the garage.
Now starting to think about how to proceed.
I see there is a taper attachment for sale.
My machine originally had one - see picture below of what's left.
The one for sale looks to have been snapped off a machine.
That said - the repair of the bolt holes are within my welding skills - or at least I think so.

What I am trying to determine is - what's there - what's missing - and how unobtainable are those items.

Pic of my machine: 
	

		
			
		

		
	




Pics of the unit for sale


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## Karl_T (Aug 13, 2021)

here' the manual. page 9 shows the attachment and most parts. Did not check but i think a complete drawing is near the back.

Looks all there with my quick look. pretty easy to miss something as I have never taken it apart.

PS the repair is a brazing job, NOT a welding job.

PPS, second look, I can see you are missing the long about 3/8 rod that bolts to the clamp (missing too) which tightens to the ways when using the attachment.


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## rabler (Aug 13, 2021)

Charlieman22 said:


> 1. It is a 1960 not a 1945.
> 2. It was rebuilt by a professional shoo-in ‘71.
> 3. It was owned by one of the big aviation companies. They upgraded the electronics with the expensive Sabina solid state - likely at time of “remanufacture”
> 4. The seller worked next door and new the guys at the aviation company. They tipped him off they were selling all the tool room lathes and getting new (aerospace…). He bought it from them and they delivered and set it up for him around 1975.
> 5. He has used it as a prototyping machine for building antennas. The scrap behind the machine was aluminum and plastic. His stock was same. Very little steel.


Check your schematics, in the manual.  If 1960 is a modular, you actually can run it on single phase.  The only thing that required three phase is the coolant pump (if equipped).  Monarch built them to connect to three phase, but only used single phase for the main motor, as it reduced the complexity of the AC-DC electronics.  If you look at the manual Karl posted, page 13 of the pdf, "LINE" comes in at the top, goes through the disconnect switch, and then L2 branches goes to the coolant pump only.  L1-L3  drive the electronics.

If you don't have a manual, call Monarch in Sydney with the serial number, and they'll send you one.  I think it is $75, includes schematics, and a parts diagrams, SPECIFIC to your serial number.

Or is this the one that changed out for the Sabrina(?) power supply unit.  Having trouble keeping track, lol

I believe the cracked part of the taper attachment is a micro-adjust dial.  IIRC it is an option and not required to make the taper attachment work.  Karl is correct, you're missing the rod and clamp bracket.    It is also missing the top sheetmetal chip cover, and the nut that clamps onto the plate sticking out of the back of your compound, as well as a small casting and bolt that clamps that plate rigid when the taper attachment isn't being used.  Both of those parts could be shop made if one has access to a mill.

The taper attachments have quite a few roller bearings in them.  It is fairly easy, and probably useful to take it apart and replace all the bearings.  Keith Rucker has a video on doing that for a Monarch model K, they're fairly similar so it would give you a good idea of what is involved.


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## Charlieman22 (Aug 13, 2021)

Gents - excellent and thank you!
Have to say - love this forum.
Karl - Manual is a super help. 
Do not see a more detailed drawing in the back unfortunately - but lots of good information here.  Thank you.


rabler said:


> Or is this the one that changed out for the Sabrina(?) power supply unit. Having trouble keeping track, lol


Chuckled.  Yes - this one is Sabina drive,
My style can sometimes seem a bit  "wide open"... 
But I try and listen carefully - and there is often more method to the madness than may appear.



rabler said:


> Karl is correct, you're missing the rod and clamp bracket. It is also missing the top sheetmetal chip cover, and the nut that clamps onto the plate sticking out of the back of your compound, as well as a small casting and bolt that clamps that plate rigid when the taper attachment isn't being used


Ok - thank you.  helpful details.
I believe this is the clamp you are referring to
	

		
			
		

		
	



And perhaps this is the nut?
	

		
			
		

		
	




Looks like there were a number of iterations to the taper attachments - but I think I have the gist.
Largest most expensive missing part is the casted clamp I believe - though it seems they will operate without.
When you say "small casting and bolt" are you referring to the bolt and lower casted part shown in the clamp picture above?




rabler said:


> The taper attachments have quite a few roller bearings in them. It is fairly easy, and probably useful to take it apart and replace all the bearings. Keith Rucker has a video on doing that for a Monarch model K, they're fairly similar so it would give you a good idea of what is involved.


Have seen that video - didn't realize it applies.
I expect that I will pull my carriage and go through it to take out some of the backlash/ replace what I can that is worn/ create a tighter fit.
From what I understand - the carriage was basically designed to wear - so I am assuming that I would get good value out of making it tighter.
Perhaps top on my list of improvements.
Dealing with the taper attachment simultaneously would be the plan - if I have one to deal with...

Thanks for priming the pump and getting me started here.
-CM


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