# A interesting bit of history ...



## FOMOGO (Jan 26, 2018)

Ran across this, and thought some might find it interesting. Machine doesn't strike me as a turret lathe though. Looks like some sort of mill, but can't place the head above RT. I do find the operator inspirational. Cheers, Mike  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/...ey-the-real-rosie-the-riveter-dies-at-96.html


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## markba633csi (Jan 26, 2018)

Great pic, heels even- looks like she's cutting a keyway in a gear with some type of shaper head
Mark


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## tertiaryjim (Jan 26, 2018)

Looks like a universal, vertical head shaper for cutting gears.


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## 4GSR (Jan 26, 2018)

It was mentioned in another forum that it was a 12" Pratt & Whitney vertical shaper.


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## dlane (Jan 26, 2018)

Wounder if Rosie the riveter ever bucked rivets, looks like she’s making a bull gear. Didn’t need safety glasses then


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## Wreck™Wreck (Jan 26, 2018)

Likely a vertical lathe where the spindle is vertical, the part that looks like a rotary table is the face plate, Bullard made thousands of such machines which are excellent for short length large diameter parts. Many are still in operation today, I wish we still had one.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bul...UICygC&biw=2187&bih=1089#imgrc=MccaKvA_hnVcpM:


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## 4GSR (Jan 26, 2018)

Wreck, it's been verified as being a 12" Pratt & Whitney vertical shaper.  Sorry.

Edit: Here's a couple links to share.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...r-fraley-real-rosie-riveter-dies-96-a-345549/

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/rosie-riveter-dies-96-a-345545/


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## markba633csi (Jan 26, 2018)

Is it actually a 24" table then- if so that looks about right
M


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## benmychree (Jan 26, 2018)

4gsr said:


> It was mentioned in another forum that it was a 12" Pratt & Whitney vertical shaper.


To my eye, it looks more like a 6" Pratt & Whitney vertical shaper (I have one) I'm going by the diameter of the rotary table, mine is 18" diameter and I think the 12" was a good bit larger.  Also, the clapper box is the same size as mine.


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## middle.road (Jan 26, 2018)

OMG! the sleeves! quick someone get her to roll up her sleeves!
Fortunately she has her hair up and completely secured. 

That's a beautiful machine, I'd wouldn't mind seeing one in person... I may have over the years and had no idea.


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## benmychree (Jan 26, 2018)

middle.road said:


> OMG! the sleeves! quick someone get her to roll up her sleeves!
> Fortunately she has her hair up and completely secured.
> 
> That's a beautiful machine, I'd wouldn't mind seeing one in person... I may have over the years and had no idea.


They are a beautiful machine and quite sensitive and accurate; they are a toolroom machine, meant for tool and die work, one think you can't see is that the ram is inclinable for such as die work, and the rotary table has power feed for circular shaping, the rotary table also has a shot bolt dividing capability, and on mine, I have added dividing plates and sector like a dividing head.
If you ever come to California, you can come and look at mine!


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## brino (Jan 26, 2018)

I bet those shoes are great at capturing lots of hot chips and funnelling them right to her feet.
It's that way with my work boots when I get lazy and don't tie them.
-brino


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## Wreck™Wreck (Jan 26, 2018)

4gsr said:


> Wreck, it's been verified as being a 12" Pratt & Whitney vertical shaper.



Just a guess, I have never seen a shaper in the wild and only know the general layout from pictures. The clapper box is a dead give away I suspect.


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## middle.road (Jan 26, 2018)

1979, I remember the first two days in a large heavy Machine Shop. I came on board as a Tool Design Draftsman Draftsperson.
Wore dress pants, button down shirt and a TIE! The tie didn't last two hours and my boss held up a pair of scissors and told me to 'lose it' or else... (kind of like that steak house in the DFW area.)
Bill was the Superintendent of the Tool Room and Plant Maintenance. 
On the second day he turned me over to the floor. He'd arranged it that I'd spend one or two hours with each of the machinists on the main floor. 
And this is how I will always remember what a 36"x120" American lathe is.
I was standing on the platform with Chris and he was turning a big ass shaft, chips the size of a toe nail flying all over, and there I am, 
without a shop coat, shirt with two buttons undone (as was the custom in the late 70's) and two of those chips hit and dropped down
my shirt. That was an experience I'll never forget and every one of the guys on the floor laughed their collective asses off. Hurt like the devil.
I went back up the stairs to the mezzanine where our office and tool room were and their is Carl at the top of the stairs holding a shop coat for me with my name Sharpie'd over the pocket... 
Bless those guys! I really wish I had paid better attention and took it all that was available.


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## FanMan (Jan 27, 2018)

Posed photo?  No chips anywhere on the machine...


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## Tozguy (Jan 27, 2018)

FanMan said:


> Posed photo?  No chips anywhere on the machine...



Definitely, no other people around either, might be a publicity photo for a fashion designer during wartime. I can almost hear Glenn Miller playing Sunrise Serenade in the background. But that sure looks like a solid machine. Hooray for our side!


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## vocatexas (Jan 27, 2018)

The photos were taken for a Life magazine story about women's contribution to the war effort.


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## Silverbullet (Jan 27, 2018)

Guess it's called a gear slotter, you see them in action on YouTube videos. Many of the old war movies show these hopping up an down.  I have lots of hours wasted so I watch the old machine porn movies. The British sten gun factory is a favorite.


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## 4GSR (Jan 27, 2018)

That whole series of pictures show women doing certain jobs, nice and clean, yeah, right.  There's a picture of woman at the controls of a brand new Warner Swasey turret lathe.  Not a chip anywhere!  Definitely staged.


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## 4GSR (Jan 27, 2018)

John, I'm almost willing to call it a 6" P & W vertical shaper, too.  I've been around both over the year, never run one, don't want to either.


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## 4GSR (Jan 27, 2018)

brino said:


> I bet those shoes are great at capturing lots of hot chips and funnelling them right to her feet.
> It's that way with my work boots when I get lazy and don't tie them.
> -brino


Just think, those shoes are in style now.


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## brino (Jan 27, 2018)

4gsr said:


> I'm almost willing to call it a 6" P & W vertical shaper, too. I've been around both over the year, never run one, don't want to either.



.......and you wouldn't look as "inspirational" as @FOMOGO put it! 
-brino


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## 682bear (Jan 27, 2018)

My great aunt was a riveter at the Bell Bomber plant during the war. She passed away 3 years ago... I loved to hear her tell stories about it. 

-Bear


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## Nogoingback (Jan 27, 2018)

My mother-in-law, who was born in England worked at a lathe making parts for Wellington bombers during the war.  It's hard to imagine
since she was anything but mechanically minded, but I imagine lots of young British women did that sort work then.  When I asked her
about it, she had no idea what kind of parts she was making.


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## 4GSR (Jan 27, 2018)

In dads shop, we had a Reed Pretinece No. 5 Jig mill they called it.  Still had the old war finish on it.  I don't know how many of these mills were built, they used to be very popular in oil tool manufacturing plants back in the 1970's.  Anyway, fast forward to about 5-6 years ago. I ran across one of the WWII documentary films on youtube of a transmission plant over in the UK. I couldn't believe my eyes, there was our old mill! There was a young women running the mill too. Apron coated solid in oil and such from running that machine. (I can relate with that) At least I think it was.  The reason I notice it, it had the machine number paint stenciled on the side of the mill in the same place as on the old mill we had did.  If the buyer that bought it from us 15 years ago still has it, it's probably one of the last one's around today.


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## Dredb (Jan 28, 2018)

How old are you guys? Did anyone notice the pretty girl next to the machine?


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## FOMOGO (Jan 28, 2018)

Dredb said:


> How old are you guys? Did anyone notice the pretty girl next to the machine?


 
 Well let's see, back when oil was forming under the ground, and dinosaurs roamed the earth. Yea, I guess some of us qualify as old, but I doubt I'll ever be that old. Cheers, Mike


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## Firestopper (Jan 28, 2018)

As much as I love machines, I was mesmerized by her natural beauty and found myself sizing her up before  appreciating the iron.
What a cool lady, RIP Naomi Parker Fraley.


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## Nogoingback (Jan 28, 2018)

Dredb said:


> How old are you guys? Did anyone notice the pretty girl next to the machine?




Of course we did.


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## Cooter Brown (Jan 28, 2018)




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## Bob Korves (Jan 28, 2018)

Cooter Brown said:


> View attachment 255975


Thanks, Cooter, but sadly the picture does not do justice to the size and mass of the real machine that John York has.  It is a beast!  And John's is a 6" machine, the pic says it is a 12" version.  Gotta' be 10,000 pounds...


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## Tony Wells (Jan 28, 2018)

Just for kicks, I posted a few pics from those days a while back.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/working-girls-no-not-what-you-are-thinking.8568/


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## Cooter Brown (Jan 28, 2018)

10,000 pounds for sure this machine is huge!


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## Toolmaker51 (Jan 13, 2020)

4GSR said:


> That whole series of pictures show women doing certain jobs, nice and clean, yeah, right.  There's a picture of woman at the controls of a brand new Warner Swasey turret lathe.  Not a chip anywhere!  Definitely staged.


Staged or not...logic says pics showing a beautiful woman in 'clean'  surroundings brought in plenty of additional workers. It also conserves a positive image ~75+ years later, better than any lesser propaganda. Women used this as a springboard to independence and job satisfaction, while the male population carried the war effort [again though, not on their own].
Need proof? We're still saluting the same flag, under same oath, in same language as written. 
Had Rosie not bucked rivets, we all might be bucking dictators instead.
My shop has a little museum. One full corner dedicated to 'Rosie". It generates more conversations than the rest, including 105 tons of machinery.


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## uncle harry (Jan 13, 2020)

FOMOGO said:


> Well let's see, back when oil was forming under the ground, and dinosaurs roamed the earth. Yea, I guess some of us qualify as old, but I doubt I'll ever be that old. Cheers, Mike



If any of you guys need the recipe for dirt I have it.


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## nnam (Jan 13, 2020)

Thank you, gentlemen!

We need an archive of pictures of you and your machines.  That'll make history too.


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## Janderso (Jan 13, 2020)

benmychree said:


> To my eye, it looks more like a 6" Pratt & Whitney vertical shaper (I have one) I'm going by the diameter of the rotary table, mine is 18" diameter and I think the 12" was a good bit larger.  Also, the clapper box is the same size as mine.


Of course you have one


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## Silverbullet (Jan 17, 2020)

Cooter Brown said:


> 10,000 pounds for sure this machine is huge!
> View attachment 256009





Cooter Brown said:


> 10,000 pounds for sure this machine is huge!
> View attachment 256009


Pleasingly plump n beautiful , it's in how you see these robust machines. Also WOW


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## Janderso (Jan 17, 2020)

I think it's beautiful


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