# Woe Is Me.....



## jdsc (Oct 29, 2015)

A while back,  I started thinking about a small lathe for the garage. I've used them in the past but not in quite a while.

At first the 8 x16 seemed it would do the job, but after consideration, started looking at the 9 x 19. Still too small, so like many others I moved on to the 10 x 22 / 30 series and narrowed it down to the Grizzly 602. Of course my common sense said you have to have a variable speed so now I'm looking at the Grizzly 752 or the PM 1022 V. Unfortunately the PM 1022 V is superseded by the PM 1030V which is probably a better lathe anyway.

I was already to pull the trigger this week, when I saw a Craigslist posting for an Atlas/Craftsman 12 x 36.  I hadn't really considered these before, but went and took a look at one locally and was very impressed. It seems like a decent choice for a home shop. Many of the members swear by them, not at them, I noticed, and parts are still available, both from the factory and of course Ebay and Craigslist......

I even went and took a look at an older Grizzly 13 x 37, belt drive monster which was very well priced. But, I think that is both overkill for me, too big, too heavy, and it runs on 220. Now, I have 220 in my shop, so no problem, but it is pretty big, doesn't have the factory stand, and looks to be more of a project than I want to take on right now.

So, I'm back to the choice between the PM 1030 V and a nice, no junk please, Atlas/Craftsman 12x36 commercial with the 1/2" ways. My budget would be about the same for both assuming the 12x36 comes with a decent amount of tooling.

The pluses of the PM are, it's new with warranty.  Has a larger spindle bore and MT taper, 1" vs 3/4". Variable speed. V shaped ways vs flat. 21 imperial some number of metric threading capability. 

The pluses of the Atlas/Craftsman are: American iron. Quality product. It has a very decent speed range albeit, via belt drive and change. Good reputation. Parts availability, etc. And, it is much more capable as far as thread cutting choices, though I'm not sure about it's metric capability. I assume change gears for that are available, but not sure. 

So, the real question, assuming I can find a really decent Atlas/Craftsman 12x36 Commercial lathe, which would you choose? Any and all opinions are welcome.


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## kd4gij (Oct 29, 2015)

Price would be my deciding factor. Now if you have the room don't pass up a bigger lathe for size. Size does matter. You can make small parts on a big lathe. But to make big parts on a small lathe not so much. I don't have the space but If I did I think a 14x40 is ideal for a hobby.


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## jdsc (Oct 29, 2015)

Let's assume they are the same price. And, the 12x36 is as big as I can go size wise. I notice you have a 12x36. Impressions? Is the Headstock bore at 3/4" a limitation for you or do you wish you had a bigger diameter? And, finally, since you also have a Grizzly is comes down to
Asian vs American. Are the Asian lathes as good as an old American one?


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## Steve M (Oct 29, 2015)

I followed the same logic moving up from a 6x19 3in1.  The 12x36 lathes offer so much more than the next size down in features like gearbox changer, separate driveshafts for saddle for threading and turning (forget name - oldtimer's setting in). lower bottom end speed, 70 rpm vs 150 or so, more mass, ability to handle larger pieces, just on an on.  It is major leap in features and capability.  I woudn't mind a little smaller machine like a PM 11x27 but am happy with what I have,


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## coolidge (Oct 29, 2015)

220vac grunt is just what you want in a lathe, think about the rotating mass you are trying to get spinning from a dead stop and the load you will put on it parting off and taking heavier cuts, just saying.


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## kd4gij (Oct 29, 2015)

I have the older craftsman 12x36 I got it for $300. And spent another $300 a year later for a QCGB I got it because price was a big factor at the time. I have had no complaints about it I know it's limitation  and work within that. The craftsman commercial is a much stouter lathe. If I had the money unless I found the craftsman commercial at a really  good price. I would go for a new import with gear head. And as for the spindle bore I would look for the largest I could. The 3/4" has been an issue at times.


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## planeflyer21 (Oct 29, 2015)

Interesting.  Have you looked at the G4003 (non-gunsmith version) and compared it to the PM1236?  Both have a 1 1/2" spindle bore and run on 220v.


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## jdsc (Oct 29, 2015)

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. 
The G4003 and the PM1236 would be a quantum leap beyond my needs at this time.  My focus is on something smaller such as the Craftsman/Atlas Commercial 12x36 or the PM1030V. Either one would be more than adequate, and space is a big issue, as well as cost.  Your comments and suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks


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## jdsc (Nov 9, 2015)

Well, in spite of what I said above, a very, very nice G 4003 came on the market this weekend at a very reasonable price. I took one look at it and it followed me home. But, it wasn't an easy task. That thing is a beast.....phew. 

I posted this message on the Atlas forum a few minutes ago:
"To all that answered my request for information I appreciate all the conversation and input. After much consideration, my first choice would be an Atlas/Craftsman commercial, 12x36. But, this weekend I came across a very little used, excellent condition Grizzly G4003 12x36 for a great price. Most accessories had never been used and the lathe itself is in pristine condition. So, for much less than a G0758 or PM1030V, I decided to give it a go. Besides it was in my neighborhood. So, I'll try it out and see how it fits my needs and if for some reason it's wanting, I'll put it up for sale and go another direction. In the meantime, time to make some chips and once again many thanks to all that responded and helped me make the decision to go big or go home......
Jim".

So, as I mentioned above, thanks to everyone that helped me make the decision. I guess I'll head over to the Grizzly forum now where I belong, but thanks again for all the input.....


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## JimDawson (Nov 9, 2015)

jdsc said:


> Well, in spite of what I said above, a very, very nice G 4003 came on the market this weekend at a very reasonable price. I took one look at it and it followed me home. But, it wasn't an easy task. That thing is a beast.....phew.



Congratulations!  Now we need to see some pictures of your new toy, er, tool


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## tmarks11 (Nov 9, 2015)

nice!  That makes your decision a bit easier.  

So what kind of mill are you going to buy with the money you saved?  Or maybe a nice Aloris tool post to replace the "adequate" grizzly QCTP?


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## jdsc (Nov 10, 2015)

Not sure if I am doing this correctly but here you go. My back definitely says I brought something heavy home....photo attached, maybe.

As for the Grizzly QCTP, it is the first one I have used and we are still in the early stages of our relationship, but I may be finding out that it has it's shortcomings. For example, when I loosen the top nut to turn the post, there is a one way pin underneath that I believe is supposed to let it turn one way. But, in reality, unless I really loosen up the nut I rests in a small slot and doesn't want to co-operate.

The online manual for the G4003 says here is your QCTP and that is about it.......

Any suggestions as to operating it and/or modifications. I don't want to upgrade yet, just improve it if possible.

As for the operation, I am really starting to like this machine and all it's features, and I'm glad I went BIG. Now, if it was just another color than green......


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## tmarks11 (Nov 10, 2015)

Some people pin the QCTP so it can't rotate (you should be able to pull that pin out if it bugs you).  I don't, but I keep my QCTP squared up to the compound, and rotate the compound when I need another angle.


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## jdsc (Nov 10, 2015)

Is there an advantage to keeping the QCTP squared up and rotating the compound vs rotating the QCTP itself?


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## Muskt (Nov 10, 2015)

Opinions are like rearends--everyone has one & most of them stink.  That being said, here is my opinion on the locking pin.

Remove the pin, spring, bungee cords, etc. and carry all of them to the nearest swamp.  Place all of the objects in your hand.  Close your eyes tightly and turn round approximately three revolutions.  Throw all of the objects as far as possible (eyes remain closed), count to 47, open eyes and go home and use the lathe.

Now, don't you feel better?

Posted with tongue firmly embedded in cheek.
Jerry in Delaware


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## JimDawson (Nov 10, 2015)

Well in MY Opinion , You will find that being able to set the compound at an angle that is correct for the job and being able adjust the tool post independently is the only way to fly.  As Muskt suggests, remove or fix anything that hampers free movement of the tool post.


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## jdsc (Nov 11, 2015)

The nearest swamp is about 2000 miles away from me here in Northern California. But there is an ocean just about a pins throw away from here. I'll take it out and put it in a safe place in case there was a reason to put it back in one day.


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## tmarks11 (Nov 11, 2015)

jdsc said:


> Is there an advantage to keeping the QCTP squared up and rotating the compound vs rotating the QCTP itself?



My take on it is if you use indexable carbide, the tool holder and tip were designed by the manufacturer to achieve what they considered an optimum angle of cut.  Orienting the tool 15 degrees or whatever isn't really going to help.  HSS is a different story, the optimum cutting angle isn't ground into it... unless you waste a lot of time at the grinding wheel.

Yes, I started out trying to be an artist, rotating my QCTP which ever way caught my fancy.  And then I started learning more about indexible carbide, and just stopped wasting my time and left my tool post squared up.

The exception: when cutting threads, you have to rotate the QCTP.  You set the compound to 29.5 degrees, and rotate the tool post so that threading bit is perpendicular to the workpiece, and then use the compound to advance the bit into the the workpiece (yes, I know that some people "cheat" and skip the whole compound thing, but you do get better looking threads IMHO).

So, at the end of the day, I would pull those pins and chuck them.

Dorian AFAIK is the only company that sells QCTP predrilled for pins to keep the tool post from rotating.  Their brochure says it makes it stiffer. They would also prevent a parting event gone horribly wrong from rotating the toolpost into the chuck.  Never seen it happen, but heard of it.


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## dave2176 (Nov 11, 2015)

Save the pin. It is useful when knurling and other times when load wants to twist the QCTP.


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