# HF Icon Tool Storage - Huh?



## vtcnc (Sep 28, 2019)

I got an email giving 20% off their new line of tool storage - ICON. I thought, ok, maybe worth looking at...something better then their General line but won't break the bank.

Man, was I mistaken! I'm trying to figure how HF lost sight of their demographic on this one...If I wanted to drop $5000 on a tool box (not that I could or even would), I'd flag down the Snap-On truck or search CL for one. This seems completely out of step with what HF is really good at.

Rant over.


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## C-Bag (Sep 28, 2019)

vtcnc said:


> I got an email giving 20% off their new line of tool storage - ICON. I thought, ok, maybe worth looking at...something better then their General line but won't break the bank.
> 
> Man, was I mistaken! I'm trying to figure how HF lost sight of their demographic on this one...If I wanted to drop $5000 on a tool box (not that I could or even would), I'd flag down the Snap-On truck or search CL for one. This seems completely out of step with what HF is really good at.
> 
> Rant over.



I think what they are up to is in the name, "Icon".

In a certain way it's a somewhat logical progression. I'm not saying it's good. It reminds of when WallyWorld was expanding in the 90's. The first thing they held a free breakfast for all local retailers and after it was over informed all in attendance they were going to come in and keep cutting their prices until all local competition was gone. Then once they had the market they raised their prices back up. I see this with HF because there are tons of others like Jet, Grizzley, PM etc that have been getting the same stuff from China and charging 2x's as much with just a different paint job. HF is obviously aware of the price difference because they often quote and do price comparisons in their ads. 

As local manufacturing continues its decline and Chinese economy slows and they can't afford to support prices more and more prices are going up. This is happening in other Chinese goods like musical instruments. But they have been coming out with more and more segments or lines that have different prices along with quality. Things are still so crazy like SnapOn, Mac, Matco etc catering to the line mechanics. So even if they can get 50% of what they want for their boxes it's a huge increase in their prices. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Without the price supports will domestics afford to come back?


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## Be_Zero_Be (Sep 28, 2019)

Price an equivalent "Tool Palace" from Snap-On and you will run to HF.


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## pontiac428 (Sep 28, 2019)

Leapin' McMansions, y'all! I'd rather have ten medium rollaways. I don't need a toolbox that looks like a Texas micro-tycoon bought a half million dollar RV and took it to the paint shop!


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## Bob Korves (Sep 28, 2019)

vtcnc said:


> I got an email giving 20% off their new line of tool storage - ICON. I thought, ok, maybe worth looking at...something better then their General line but won't break the bank.
> 
> Man, was I mistaken! I'm trying to figure how HF lost sight of their demographic on this one...If I wanted to drop $5000 on a tool box (not that I could or even would), I'd flag down the Snap-On truck or search CL for one. This seems completely out of step with what HF is really good at.
> 
> Rant over.


Toolboxes like that just remind me of guys playing their usual "Mine is bigger than yours" game...


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## C-Bag (Sep 28, 2019)

Bob Korves said:


> Toolboxes like that just remind me of guys playing their usual "Mine is bigger than yours" game...


Or mine is more expensive


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## HarryJM (Sep 28, 2019)

Unless you need/want new the CL is the place to buy from and yes you pay a premium just for the Snap-on name.


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## Be_Zero_Be (Sep 28, 2019)

*The Snap-On boxes like that run $30,000.00 plus.
There are auto mechanics that will be paying off their tools long after they retire. *


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## vtcnc (Sep 28, 2019)

Be_Zero_Be said:


> *The Snap-On boxes like that run $30,000.00 plus.
> There are auto mechanics that will be paying off their tools long after they retire. *


That's crazy. I expected to see the HF version of Snap-On for $1,500 or less. I'll stick to my many boxes laying around the shop for now. Daydream officially over.


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## Radials (Sep 28, 2019)

I was surprised when I saw that email as well. In general I think HF trying to make product improvements is a good thing for everyone but I hope they don't loose sight of where they are situated in the hierarchy of the tool world. I own several HF power tools because I simply couldn't justify purchasing what I really wanted, a name brand tool. However if HF starts to inch their prices too close to a name brand its likely that they're going to loose out in the final decision. They can come up with all the facade brand names they want but the bones are still HF.


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## mmcmdl (Sep 28, 2019)

You can still find Vidmars , Listas Waterloos around . I would rather pay the used prices on these boxes .


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## Boswell (Sep 28, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> You can still find Vidmars , Listas Waterloos around . I would rather pay the used prices on these boxes


+1. I love my used Vidmar


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## mmcmdl (Sep 28, 2019)

Boswell said:


> +1. I love my used Vidmar



Only problem is they hold too much junk !  I never throw anything away as long as I have extra space in them .


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## C-Bag (Sep 28, 2019)

mmcmdl said:


> You can still find Vidmars , Listas Waterloos around . I would rather pay the used prices on these boxes .


I'd love to find a used Vidmar or Lista but around here they are gold and never even get close to a standard HF box.


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## rwm (Sep 29, 2019)

I just bought a US General box form HF and I am very pleased with it. That is a crazy price for the "Icon" and the price comparison to SnapOn is a little artificial. I don't know anyone who has paid list price. Also, you can get some really nice ones on the secondary market.
Robert


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## BGHansen (Sep 29, 2019)

I have 4 HF US General boxes and am very happy with all of them.  I think the problem HF will have selling the 4-10 times more expensive boxes is the US General's will be setting right next to the Icon's.  Tough to justify the cost difference when US General meets the needs of 99.9% of us.  Almost like putting your hands on a CDCO BXA tool holder for $12-$13 and an Aloris at $65; do I take 5 of these or 1 of those.

Bruce


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## vtcnc (Sep 29, 2019)

BGHansen said:


> I have 4 HF US General boxes and am very happy with all of them.  I think the problem HF will have selling the 4-10 times more expensive boxes is the US General's will be setting right next to the Icon's.  Tough to justify the cost difference when US General meets the needs of 99.9% of us.  Almost like putting your hands on a CDCO BXA tool holder for $12-$13 and an Aloris at $65; do I take 5 of these or 1 of those.
> 
> Bruce


Yeah, I agree, that's sort of what I was thinking when I imagine walking in and seeing one of these monsters next to the U.S. General display. I started reading some of the fine print on these. Looks like they will be putting these ICON products in select stores. So I'm not counting on seeing these anytime soon, not that I could lay down that kind of cash anyway, nor would I want to.


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## Bob Korves (Sep 29, 2019)

Moving it around would be a PITA.  If it doesn't need to be moved around, then you don't need roll around tool storage, go for something a lot cheaper and more sturdy...


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## PT Doc (Sep 29, 2019)

Nobody asked but bang for the buck I feel that Montezuma are very good. Strictly Toolboxes sold them and still might in Various configurations. I was able to change the drawer configuration on my bigger box. Handy if you have limited space but want to get your stuff into an organized tool storage deal. Having everything on casters has been helpful for me to allow for reconfiguring without the need to unpack anon mobile storage box.


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## RJSakowski (Sep 29, 2019)

Somehow, I can't get my head around rolling four tons of tools around the shop.  Now if they motorize it and provide a remote......


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## ttabbal (Sep 29, 2019)

RJSakowski said:


> Somehow, I can't get my head around rolling four tons of tools around the shop.  Now if they motorize it and provide a remote......




There's a POTD idea right there!


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## bpimm (Oct 1, 2019)




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## Bob Korves (Oct 1, 2019)

bpimm said:


> (just made my last payment on my Snap-on tools)


A bunch of mechanics sadly can relate to that...


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## nnam (Oct 1, 2019)

Talking about tool storage, I bought two heavy duty file cabinets, with drawers that are only half of the usual height.  They have ball bearing drawers.  They're heavy.  However, the metal is pretty flimsy.  My first try was to put 4 wheels on it with the bolts at the bottom replacing the 4 adjustable height bolts.

They bent pretty easily due to not mush support down there.  So I cut out some metal plates, some bed rail and welded 4 rectangle corners, then welded 4 small bolts each, then bolts a new set of swivel casters on it.  I was exhausted at the end.  The smoke and fume was bad, even outside.  I had a large fan on, it was not so much wind, and when there was wind, it went all kind of directions, causing the fan to work against the wind, not working basically.  Good think I wasn't sick after that.

After I finished with 1 cabinet, I decided to give away the 2nd, just too much.  But after 2 days of no claims, I moved it into a right place for it.  I still didn't have time to organize my stuffs into it.


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## matthewsx (Oct 1, 2019)

I made good money with my HF tools and still have and use most of them. 

As someone who used to work for them I can assure you they know their market and will sell the heck out of their new higher end stuff. And if not they will be just as quick to clearance it out. 

I haven’t seen anyone else jumping into the space (dedicated tool store selling to a local market nationwide). In most other places your only option for tools is Home Depot or another big box where good luck finding someone who can even spell hammer. 

When I worked there I met plenty of customers who could have spent $5k on a toolbox if we had one. Lots of old guys like us who keep buying even when we already have two of everything. I also met lots of tradesmen who just had their trailer or shop full of high end stuff stolen and they just needed something to finish the job they were working on. 

Plus, just the fact they support high school trades education makes me happy

Cheers,

John

P.S.  I love my big old stationary (vidmar like) box. Never saw the logic of putting my tools on wheels so thieves could roll them away.


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## NCjeeper (Oct 1, 2019)

I don't think they are going after the average Joe with the Icon line. Its geared more toward the professional mechanic turning wrenches all day everyday. If the mechanic can buy the Icon box for thousands less than the same Snap on box then that is the target market. Plus HF is going to offer credit.


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## matthewsx (Oct 1, 2019)

I just wanna know how short that guy in the photo is


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## cjtoombs (Oct 2, 2019)

I bought a US General 56" chest to use for a lathe stand, and given the quality of that chest and the price, I don't know how you would need anything more.  It's got all full roller drawers with latches, it's made from fairly heavy guage steel and mine is loaded to the gills with lathe and mill accessories, not lightweight stuff  and it has no complaints.  Full disclosure:  I built a subframe and used leveling casters to lower it by about 7 inches so I didn't have to reach up to run my lathe, so I can't speak for the casters, but they looked good and I will probably use them on another project.  I think maybe we're a little spoiled nowadays for toolboxes, considering 25 years ago you would have paid the more in inflation adjusted dollars for a 26" full roller chest from Sears.  I don't even know when they started selling full roller toolboxes to the general public, might have been later than that.


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## Aaron_W (Oct 2, 2019)

cjtoombs said:


> I bought a US General 56" chest to use for a lathe stand, and given the quality of that chest and the price, I don't know how you would need anything more.  It's got all full roller drawers with latches, it's made from fairly heavy guage steel and mine is loaded to the gills with lathe and mill accessories, not lightweight stuff  and it has no complaints.  Full disclosure:  I built a subframe and used leveling casters to lower it by about 7 inches so I didn't have to reach up to run my lathe, so I can't speak for the casters, but they looked good and I will probably use them on another project.  I think maybe we're a little spoiled nowadays for toolboxes, considering 25 years ago you would have paid the more in inflation adjusted dollars for a 26" full roller chest from Sears.  I don't even know when they started selling full roller toolboxes to the general public, might have been later than that.



After looking at quite a few tool chests I bought a US General 26" and 44" as stands for my mini-mill and lathe, as well as to store tooling for both the larger and smaller machines. I agree these chests are better made than most others in the general price range, and I think a very good value for the money.

I don't see these new Icon chests as being any competition for the US General line, totally different class of budget.


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## vtcnc (Oct 3, 2019)

NCjeeper said:


> I don't think they are going after the average Joe with the Icon line. Its geared more toward the professional mechanic turning wrenches all day everyday. If the mechanic can buy the Icon box for thousands less than the same Snap on box then that is the target market. Plus HF is going to offer credit.


Ah. This seems like the most reasonable explanation but I still can't see my father (runs a body shop) going to HF and saying to himself I need to have that toolbox where do I sign up for credit. I suppose there are people out there though that value this kind of proposition. Each to his own!


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## matthewsx (Oct 3, 2019)

Probably the new guy in the shop, wants to look like a pro but has a baby at home and already has two car payments.

or,

The old guy with a massive pole barn and every tool imaginable. 

He can afford the Snap-on but he's just cheap


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## C-Bag (Oct 3, 2019)

In 1980 I decided I needed full size rollaway and at that time HF carried Waterloo as their toolbox. Both the SnapOn and Mac man had nothing bad to say about it because they often used weight to help quantify how good a box was. And the Waterloo weighed the same, not so with Craftsman. And while the same size box was around $1200 for SnapOn or Mac I paid $235 for the Waterloo. Where I was quickly frustrated by running out of room was air tools and test equipment. 

My solution was make a clamshell side cabinet that the inside all my air tools hung up and in the door all my test equipment could hang. I also ended up getting a deal on a small SnapOn cab for measuring tools etc and integrated the whole on a sub frame. Every tool mans who ever saw it said they were going to steal the idea but never did. Because it's welded on and nobody makes this setup and I got out of working on cars my homemade tamale cart will probably last toolbox.


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## jwmay (Oct 3, 2019)

I think it’ll be a hard sell, but I don’t figure they’d have gone to the trouble of making it if they didn’t think it’d be a slam dunk. 

The best SnapOn story I have: My coworker just came in with an adjustable wrench off the truck. He explained how the sales guy had used a Craftsman adjustable wrench for comparison. He put a bolt in a vise, and gave it a good pull with the Craftsman. The bolt head rounded off. He replaced the bolt in the vise, grabbed the SnapOn adjustable and twisted the head right off. My coworker reckoned that was the sign of a better wrench, and bought it on the spot. I gently suggested that it may be better to have a bolt with a rounded off head, than a bolt with no head at all buried in a machine.  To each his own I suppose.


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## cjtoombs (Oct 8, 2019)

jwmay said:


> I think it’ll be a hard sell, but I don’t figure they’d have gone to the trouble of making it if they didn’t think it’d be a slam dunk.
> 
> The best SnapOn story I have: My coworker just came in with an adjustable wrench off the truck. He explained how the sales guy had used a Craftsman adjustable wrench for comparison. He put a bolt in a vise, and gave it a good pull with the Craftsman. The bolt head rounded off. He replaced the bolt in the vise, grabbed the SnapOn adjustable and twisted the head right off. My coworker reckoned that was the sign of a better wrench, and bought it on the spot. I gently suggested that it may be better to have a bolt with a rounded off head, than a bolt with no head at all buried in a machine.  To each his own I suppose.



They've tried things before that didn't work out, they don't sell full size machine tools anymore.  They even sold a surface grinder and a CNC version of the X2 for a very short while.  Time will tell if this works out or not.  Also, I wouldn't trust a demonstration done by a salesman to begin with.  Bolts might not be the same, or could have been tampered with before the demonstration.


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## Tim9 (Oct 9, 2019)

When I first started turning wrenches the older mechanics had little bitty top and bottom boxes while most of the younger guys just had stacks of same width boxes but with two or three center add on boxes. They needed a ladder to get to the top of their box.
I purchased a set of those below and thought I was the cats meow. Paid 700.00 for first set and eventually purchased a second set from Snap On for 625.00 because the dealer wanted to empty his mini storage. He had purchased some 20 sets of them because they were promoting them at Snap On. 
Basic boxes which have served me well. And the Beauty is I can move them myself in my compact pick up truck. 
    Now.... go to any dealership and half the guys have boxes which are massive. Insane. And they need to call a flat bed wrecker when they switch jobs.  Just too damned big.


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## matthewsx (Oct 9, 2019)

I had a guy who worked for me briefly, when he left the wrecker had to haul his box away.


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## C-Bag (Oct 9, 2019)

My box unfortunately has become where things I don't have storage for seem to end up. But most places I worked there were no benches so my box was my bench. It's why I never went with top boxes. Moving has always been a problem until I inherited my FIL's ultra low trailer he built along with a 6' aluminum ramp that all packing houses used to have lying around. I can load my toolbox by myself. Done it more times than I can count. I also have a 10' aluminum ramp. Between the two ramps and that trailer I can literally move a ton of stuff.


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## Janderso (Oct 9, 2019)

I bought a Home Depot roll around and a US General 46” box.
So far the US General seems to be a better quality box.
Easy gliding soft close drawers are great on the hf unit.
Yeah, those 6 foot boxes are ridiculous


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## mmcmdl (Oct 9, 2019)

I use a 42" Vidmar in at work equipped with castors and 2" shoptop . I have a Kennedy large mechanics box on top of that . Both are fully loaded as I need both machinist and mechanics tools . At home , the 3 62" Vidmars carry most of the load . The 4 42" US Generals handle some woodshop things and harry homeowner usage tools . I have sold my 5 Kennedy roller , mid and top box machinist sets in the midst of downsizing . That big box on the first post looks pretty but I can't see it as being useful .


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## matthewsx (Oct 9, 2019)

My main box is an Equipto (like a Vidmar I guess, made for parts storage rather than tools originally). I also have various Craftsman and other no-name boxes. I suppose if I was going to work at another shop I would need to buy something big and lockable but what I have now works and it's paid for. I can move the Equipto by myself if I take the drawers out, or by forklift if I ever get another one. I also have a bench with big drawers, an old blueprint file for small tools, and more stuff like bolt bins in storage not to mention my 20' shop trailer out west. I guess I've got enough tools now, maybe....


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## jwmay (Oct 9, 2019)

cjtoombs said:


> They've tried things before that didn't work out, they don't sell full size machine tools anymore.  They even sold a surface grinder and a CNC version of the X2 for a very short while.  Time will tell if this works out or not.  Also, I wouldn't trust a demonstration done by a salesman to begin with.  Bolts might not be the same, or could have been tampered with before the demonstration.


You’ll get no argument from me. I just maybe have more faith in the ability of large companies to figure out the most efficient and effective ways to strip us of our money while we smile.


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## vtcnc (Oct 10, 2019)

matthewsx said:


> My main box is an Equipto (like a Vidmar I guess, made for parts storage rather than tools originally). I also have various Craftsman and other no-name boxes. I suppose if I was going to work at another shop I would need to buy something big and lockable but what I have now works and it's paid for. I can move the Equipto by myself if I take the drawers out, or by forklift if I ever get another one. I also have a bench with big drawers, an old blueprint file for small tools, and more stuff like bolt bins in storage not to mention my 20' shop trailer out west. I guess I've got enough tools now, maybe....



Yeah, maybe...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## projectnut (Oct 10, 2019)

I think to some extent you're comparing apples and oranges.  On one hand I do agree that the snap On boxes are outrageously expensive.  On the other hand I think you'll find that in a professional setting over time the Snap On boxes will take far more abuse than the HF models.  I purchased my first Snap On box in the late 1970's.  As a repair shop owner and professional mechanic the drawers were opened and closed hundreds of times a day, and it probably accumulated more miles rolling across the shop than most of the customers cars.  I used that box in a professional setting for over 20 years. 

I still have the box today, but it sits in the corner of the garage.  The drawers still get opened on a regular basis, but it hasn't accumulated much mileage in the last 15 years or so.  About as far as it moves these days is a couple feet a few times a year to retrieve a dropped tool, or to clean behind it.  In the 40+ years I've had it I've never had to repair or replace a single part.  The slides and rollers used to get lubed on a monthly basis, now days it's down to an annual basis.  For the money spent 40 years ago it's held up well.

As for the Craftsman boxes of the same era I would classify them as trash.  I tried to trade 2 of them in when purchasing the Snap On , but the dealer wasn't  interested.  Both were only a couple years old and had already worn out several drawer slides and wheels.

As a hobbyist I wouldn't even consider a Snap On box or any tools for that matter.  While they do stand up far better than the HF or similar brands in a professional setting most hobbyists never come close to using their tool to the extent they'd ever notice the difference.  The last few wrenches I've purchased came from a local farm store.  They're Duracraft Pro series.  If I remember correctly a 1 1/16" combination wrench cost less then $20.00.  At the time the same wrench from Snap On cost over $96.00.  For what I use it for the I'll never wear out the Duracraft.


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## jwmay (Oct 10, 2019)

I pulled my last Craftsman box out of the dumpster at work. What’s that saying about one mans trash again? Lol


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## mksj (Oct 10, 2019)

Was on a tour of the machine shop for JPL (Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena, CA) you would think they would have top end gear, but most of the tool chests were Craftsman and Harbor Freight (General) and had been around for years. They do not get moved and the environment was pretty spotless. Almost all the machines were decades old, although they do upgrade the electronics/software. Something to be said that newer and more expensive is not necessarily any better. All my tool chests are HF General line, and have lasted for years, a good balance between cost and durability for the level of use they get. Everything to a price point, just can't see the ICON line selling that much relative to the current HF clients. Who knows, maybe they are going upscale and will be carrying Taiwanese and American made machinery in the future.


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## matthewsx (Oct 10, 2019)

I think it's actually a stated goal of theirs to bring on more higher quality lines. Don't know if that will extend to machine tools but if they think they can make a profit they might get back into it. They used to carry a lot more machines than they do now, probably has to do with the cost of support.


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## Aaron_W (Oct 10, 2019)

matthewsx said:


> I think it's actually a stated goal of theirs to bring on more higher quality lines. Don't know if that will extend to machine tools but if they think they can make a profit they might get back into it. They used to carry a lot more machines than they do now, probably has to do with the cost of support.



You frequently see comments about long term support in reference to higher cost HF tools. Nobody cares if they can get parts for their $40 vise in 10 years, but where an $800 TIG welder is cheap by TIG welder standards, you still do see many people hesitant to spend that kind of money on something with a 90 day warranty and no guarantee of continued parts support in 6 months since HF is known to change suppliers more often than Elizabeth Taylor changed husbands.

Their current parts support is bring it back and get a new one. Not really practical for hard to move items like a tool chest or items where people stockpile consumables and don't want a replacement that uses different consumables. What a pain it would be to empty out, and transport a monster tool chest both ways simply over a bad drawer slide.


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## C-Bag (Oct 10, 2019)

It is a really crucial factor in buying anything worrying about support. But the way the whole market domestic or foreign the constant change and making things obsolete and can't get parts is pretty much the way of the world now. Not only HF changes suppliers so does Home Depot, Lowes etc. It's harder and harder to even find a place to buy truly quality tools. I've pretty much been buying old Makita's if I want quality. They at least seem to not change their models all the time and parts seem available. When I bought my Waterloo I also bought a HF 1/2" impact and 1/4" die grinder. I used both daily as a line mech and still have them and use them going on 40yrs later.

My first try at getting HF parts is a electric long nose die grinder that I've for over 10yrs. It has been used in two stationary machines, my radii cutter and stationary die grinder for the last 4yrs. Not everyday but used hard when I do. I bought a new one that is a different design so I didn't have to swap between the two setups. The old one quit the other day and it turned out it was the brushes. I couldn't believe after digging for over an hour I found the spare set of brushes, installed them and finished the project! Turns out the model has been discontinued and it has different brushes than the new one.   I just ordered new spare brushes for my old HF die grinder after a long wait on the phone and it was $8 per set(I bought 2 sets) and they didn't charge me for shipping, such a deal!


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## stupoty (Oct 10, 2019)

It might be that they are made of special materials that increase in weight after removing the packaging.









						73 in. Professional Work Center Hutch, Red
					

Amazing deals on this Red 73In Icon Work Center Hutch at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




					www.harborfreight.com
				




shipping weight 222lbs
product weight 234 lbs 

???

that is a clever trick 
and they cant be the wrong way round as I'm sure the cardboard and protective bits would be over 10 lbs for it.

I always look at the weight of roll cabs when comparing the cheeper ones so I get an idea of where they are saving the money  it's amazing how much variance their is in them.  <---- Thats my excuse and I'm sticking to it , ha ha .

Stu


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## stupoty (Oct 10, 2019)

Tim9 said:


> View attachment 303508



my floor looks like that sometimes, you need to spend some days pottering about with cups of coffee and put some shelves up !
(sorry for banta meant in a nice way, we cant afford to lose anyone to silly trip accidents  )

Stu


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## Aaron_W (Oct 10, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> It is a really crucial factor in buying anything worrying about support. But the way the whole market domestic or foreign the constant change and making things obsolete and can't get parts is pretty much at thing of the past. Not only HF changes suppliers so does Home Depot, Lowes etc. It's harder and harder to even find a place to buy truly quality tools. I've pretty much been buying old Makita's if I want quality. They at least seem to not change their models all the time and parts seem available. When I bought my Waterloo I also bought a HF 1/2" impact and 1/4" die grinder. I used both daily as a line mech and still have them and use them going on 40yrs later.
> 
> My first try at getting HF parts is a electric long nose die grinder that I've for over 10yrs. It has been used in two stationary machines, my radii cutter and stationary die grinder for the last 4yrs. Not everyday but used hard when I do. I bought a new one that is a different design so I didn't have to swap between the two setups. The old one quit the other day and it turned out it was the brushes. I couldn't believe after digging for over an hour I found the spare set of brushes, installed them and finished the project! Turns out the model has been discontinued and it has different brushes than the new one.   I just ordered new spare brushes for my old HF die grinder after a long wait on the phone and it was $8 per set(I bought 2 sets) and they didn't charge me for shipping, such a deal!



Japan has laws requiring manufacturers to maintain parts support for a lengthy period after discontinuing an item which probably effects Makita. I have a specialized printer from Japan that was discontinued around 2011 and the company is still providing consumables, parts and repair services. Other countries have been discussing similar requirements often under proposed "Right to repair" laws.


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## C-Bag (Oct 10, 2019)

I would love to see this happen. There is just too much planned obsolescence filling our land fills. Some bad designs that need to go away, but this improvement for the sake of just change alone is stupid. Don't get me started about printers! Talk about scams.


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## matthewsx (Oct 10, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> I would love to see this happen. There is just too much planned obsolescence filling our land fills. Some bad designs that need to go away, but this improvement for the sake of just change alone is stupid. Don't get me started about printers! Talk about scams.



Thread drift alert!!!!

Yes, right to repair laws are long overdue. It's one thing for manufacturers to offer repair services, or just plain build their stuff so it isn't repairable but when they try to tell me I don't have the right to fix something I bought from them it really irks me. I've been in the IT business since the days of doing board level repairs on expansion cards so it's near and dear to my heart.

I've also been on a crusade against cheap ink jet printers for several decades now. Finally laser printers (even color ones) are cheap enough that nobody should be using an ink jet unless it's for a specialized application. That printer ink in the little cartridges costs more than 20-year-old single malt scotch

Back on topic, I to have found replacement brushes for my harbor freight grinders at the back of a junk drawer on a Sunday afternoon when I just wanted to complete my project. Love it when manufacturers include replacement wear parts in the original purchase.

John


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## rwm (Oct 11, 2019)

Yep. My 4 year old $600 washer just broke. $550 in parts and labor to repair it. It looks brand new and is now going to a dump.
Robert


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## Bob Korves (Oct 11, 2019)

rwm said:


> Yep. My 4 year old $600 washer just broke. $550 in parts and labor to repair it. It looks brand new and is now going to a dump.
> Robert


My 30 year old washing machine is still going strong, never had a problem with it.  Cost  ~$150 then.  Get a used one...


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## matthewsx (Oct 11, 2019)

I asked a friend who sold washers at Sears (remember them) why our fairly new washer had started leaking while the old ones we had seemed to last forever. She said that's just the way it is now, something to do with front loading and seals, bearings. blah blah blah

The upside is the newer ones are far more efficient and actually clean your clothes much better. Buy one made in Korea, better built and no tariffs 

Cheers,

John


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## matthewsx (Oct 11, 2019)

rwm said:


> Yep. My 4 year old $600 washer just broke. $550 in parts and labor to repair it. It looks brand new and is now going to a dump.
> Robert



I'm sure there must be some usable parts in there, maybe even turn the shell into a toolbox

john


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## Tim9 (Oct 11, 2019)

C-Bag said:


> It is a really crucial factor in buying anything worrying about support. But the way the whole market domestic or foreign the constant change and making things obsolete and can't get parts is pretty much the way of the world now. Not only HF changes suppliers so does Home Depot, Lowes etc. It's harder and harder to even find a place to buy truly quality tools. I've pretty much been buying old Makita's if I want quality. They at least seem to not change their models all the time and parts seem available. When I bought my Waterloo I also bought a HF 1/2" impact and 1/4" die grinder. I used both daily as a line mech and still have them and use them going on 40yrs later.
> 
> My first try at getting HF parts is a electric long nose die grinder that I've for over 10yrs. It has been used in two stationary machines, my radii cutter and stationary die grinder for the last 4yrs. Not everyday but used hard when I do. I bought a new one that is a different design so I didn't have to swap between the two setups. The old one quit the other day and it turned out it was the brushes. I couldn't believe after digging for over an hour I found the spare set of brushes, installed them and finished the project! Turns out the model has been discontinued and it has different brushes than the new one.   I just ordered new spare brushes for my old HF die grinder after a long wait on the phone and it was $8 per set(I bought 2 sets) and they didn't charge me for shipping, such a deal!


Totally agree. That’s really where Grizzly shines. I’ve used Grizzly‘s excellent parts service to locate quite a few parts for Taiwan machine parts of an older mill of some obsolete import brand.  Grizzly really does shine. Even for some older Craftsman stuff.


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## C-Bag (Oct 11, 2019)

Yup, I use Grizzley for buying parts for my HF 9x20 and Enco RF-30. As maligned as those machines are there are a lot of them around with a lot of folks modding them so it's smart to provide parts IMHO.


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## C-Bag (Oct 11, 2019)

matthewsx said:


> I'm sure there must be some usable parts in there, maybe even turn the shell into a toolbox
> 
> john


or better yet, I think somebody used a shell to make a liquid abrasive blast cabinet. And also saw something about that the front loaders use a 3ph motor with a vfd to do the variable spin. That just begs being repurposed! I'm on my second front loader and while I love them my problems have not been leaking, it's been weird stuff like it wouldn't go into spin and it turned out the door lock was the problem! Found the way to diagnose on YouTube.


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## C-Bag (Oct 11, 2019)

matthewsx said:


> I asked a friend who sold washers at Sears (remember them) why our fairly new washer had started leaking while the old ones we had seemed to last forever. She said that's just the way it is now, something to do with front loading and seals, bearings. blah blah blah
> 
> The upside is the newer ones are far more efficient and actually clean your clothes much better. Buy one made in Korea, better built and no tariffs
> 
> ...


I stayed home with my kids when they were small so this caused me to be semi destitute and have more time than $$. We got an ancient '57 model Maytag top load washer given to us. Heaven only knows how many people it went through before us. It went down twice in the 10yrs we had it. 

One of its quirks was I couldn't have my stereo on because when it went into spin it would cause a huge electrical spike that would about spit my speakers on the floor! One night we were sitting there and I heard it go into spin and make this huge"BONG!" and then silence. It had drained already and I called a friend who had been a tech and he said it had dropped the flywheel(?!?!) He said pull it away from the wall and everything is in the base so lay it on its back. Sure enough the huge flywheel was laying the floor. There was one repairman that covered from Bakersfield to Sacramento and from the coast range to Sierra. One guy could keep busy where there was several for all the other makes in each little town. 

It turned out all I needed was this one little special clip. You put the flywheel on and wound it back against the internal spring then put the C clip on. It had been replaced without rewinding it and that's why the huge spike. When I finally caught up with the repairman he gave me the clip for free said he bought them by the pound. The other was the pump started to leak and I took it down to replace it and a tech was standing there and saw it and asked if it was a '57 Maytag and was leaking. I said yes, he said somebody forgot a paper towel in the laundry il bet and it's got a piece under the seal. Take it apart and clean it put this special lube on it and it'll be good as new. It was and it cost me $3 for the lube. He mentioned that was the washing machine he had. Id still have it if I'd not been badgered into getting rid of it by my hardwired backwards X. New Maytag are NOT like the old ones.


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## matthewsx (Oct 11, 2019)

I remember....


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## Silverbullet (Oct 11, 2019)

Harbor freight, underdog grows up and tries for the snap on money. Most of there tools are more then satisfactory for home owners and many others. Over thirty years ago I bought some air impacts and other tools. Used them abused them and there all still being used. So I'm satisfied with I guess all of them. I bought a few sets of the step drills and I've never had a problem with any size or its cutting . Now I don't trust the wrenches but I do use the sockets. If they keep raising prices like they've been doing it may affect there bottom line.


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