# Nogaflex Indicator Holders



## ronboult

On the excellent advice of Will ( Darkzero) I recently purchased two Nogaflex Indicator Holders. In case you can't guess Will loves his Nogas.

The first is a Noga NF 1022 which has a stem for inserting into a collet in the Mill Spindle and is used for centering  work under the Mill Spindle.  The articulated arm has a fine adjust at the end of the arm (just before the indicator hole and dovetails) which seems appropriate for this type of arm. My main use will be  for centering my Rotary Table under the Mill Spindle. 

The second  is a Noga NF 10433 which has a magnetic base with fine adjustment on the base and a short arm with hole and dovetail for holding both Dial Indicators and Dial Test Indicators. I use this on both the Mill and the Lathe. On the Mill typical uses are aligning the Vice etc and on the lathe it will be mounted on the Saddle for aligning items in the 4 jaw chuck and also for checking the alignment of my new lathe.

Both these Nogas are in the smaller sizes since both my Mill and my current Lathe ( Sieg SX3 an SC4) are on the smaller size. There are larger versions available for larger machines. They are readily available from USA suppliers and I imported mine to Australia from All Industrial Supply

The first photo shows a demo of aligning an object directly below the centre of the spindle. Note the fine adjustment at the bottom of the arm just above the indicator. Makes getting just the right amount of contact with the work a breeze. When alignment is correct rotating the spindle doesn't cause the indicator needle to move. Even with the small size Noga arm the range of adjustment is much larger than required for my size mill.

This photo and the next also show the Tormach quick change ER20 Collets that I routinely now use on my mill. My mill has a R8 spindle with a R8 3/4" collet which is the standard for Tormach tooling and changing tools with the Tormach Tool holders is a doddle. I suggest you check them out on the Tormach Site.









The next two photos show the Magnetic base model being used to align the Mill Vice with the x axis. The Indicator is held stationary fixed to the column and the vice is moved in the x axis to check the alignment. 




In this case the fine adjustment is on the top of the magnetic base which allows adjustment without jiggling the indicator. There is no fine adjustment at the end of the arm, just the clamp for the indicator.




Are Nogas excellent tools  YES 

The fine adjustment screws have just the right degree of fine travel and sensitivity while the arm locking mechanism is smooth and secure. I originally had a cheap Asian copy of a Noga and while cheap it is not in the same league. It has been consigned to the bin. Are there other brands of similar quality indicator holders? I don't know. I have a Mitutoyo traditional type magnetic base and arm and it is no where near the quality or usability.

It is not often that one can find such quality tools at a reasonable price. The Nogas are a fine piece of kit and I would not hesitate to buy them again, buy more or recommend them.
Ron


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## darkzero

Very nice Ron, I'm glad you like them. Well I never heard of one person that didn't like them. I'll work on gathering up some photos of mine & will post here. My post might get long though!


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## kd4gij

That's it ,Darkzero.rub it in. You could loan me one of those many nogas you have, for about 20 years


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## darkzero

Haha! How's this for rubbing it in! And I have another one arriving tomorrow! I think that will be #7 now.


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## kd4gij

Darkzero-the official spokes person for noga.


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## machinistmarty

Just a few different mounts I've made for the noga's. The dovetail on the back of the starret is my go to indicator The 3/8 rod with the 1/4 starret clamp is very versatile


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## EmilioG

Wow, why so many Noga's Will? Did you buy them all new?
Very nice collection. I'm getting one with an Interapid and a plunger
style indicator.


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## brino

Hey Ron!
Great pictures, and it's always nice to see a ringing endorsement from someone happy with a tooling purchase.

Thanks for sharing.
-brino

Darkzero; my wife thinks that _I_ obsess about tools, I need to show her this......


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## darkzero

EmilioG said:


> Wow, why so many Noga's Will? Did you buy them all new?



Cause I gots issues!  Yes, I buy them all new.



brino said:


> Darkzero; my wife thinks that _I_ obsess about tools, I need to show her this......


You should see my flashlight collection.


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## ronboult

Will I fully understand your addiction to fine tools & machinery. It is an incurable disease so you can look forward to lots more tools for the rest of your life.

Some  side issues. Have you investigated the Tormach tooling system. I know it is intended for a CNC mill but it also works great on a manual machine.
Also have a look at http://www.ctctools.biz/quick-change-floating-tap-chuck-set-m3-m12-with-r8-shank-l42/. They seem interesting. I am going to buy a set  to trial. Having trouble finding a 3/4" to B16 chuck arbor to adapt them to my Tormach system. So far only seems to be available from RDG Tools at exorbitant shipping.
Ron


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## EmilioG

darkzero said:


> Cause I gots issues!  Yes, I buy them all new.
> 
> 
> You should see my flashlight collection.



My Wife would kill me.   We all suffer from the same Tooling addiction/


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## astjp2

Eventually I will get a noga, right now I am collecting indicators.  Tim


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## FOMOGO

I got one when they first came on the scene. I use it mostly for automotive (setting up valve train,etc.) work. So much easier to use than the conventional style. I'd be lost without it. Mike


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## ronboult

After playing with my new Nogas  for a few days I have come up with a minor problem / annoyance.

Tom from OxTools adapted a Noga Arm to the Attachment Clamp of an Indicol  ( Youtube video) so that the Noga can be installed on the Mill spindle without removing the cutter. I think that Darkzero has also posted on this topic.

Anyhow when I ordered my Noga NF 1022 I researched that the stem would unscrew to reveal a thread that I could use to attach the Noga Arm to my Indicol clamp. Noga even make double ended nipples for that purpose.

Problem is that I can't unscrew the top stem to reveal what I believe to be a female thread in the attachment point. It sure is stuck fast. I suspect that it is assembled with Loctite. The Ball and the stem both have flats for spanners but I can't get them to budge.

Any Ideas???????

Oh well if I can't get them apart I will have to take Darkzero's approach and order another Noga without a stem if I can find the right part #

Ron


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## 18w

I did the same conversion to the indicol as Tom Lipton did. Both mine and his were Noga's with the mag base. Mine unscrewed very easily. Perhaps they do use loctite on the collet stem version. You might try a little heat on the stem with a propane torch. Good luck, you will really like the indicol/noga setup.

Darrell


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## kd4gij

I would not use a flame you will burn the finish. H heat gun would be ok just don't get it to hot. Better yet just make an adapter for the clamp  to except the stem with a set scew to hold it.



  Or you could do like I do with my cheap knockoff and just stick the mag base to the quil. It works just as well. For a poor mans setup.


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## 18w

kd4gij said:


> I would not use a flame you will burn the finish. H heat gun would be ok just don't get it to hot. Better yet just make an adapter for the clamp  to except the stem with a set scew to hold it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A heat gun is a good idea. A propane torch used correctly will do no harm to the finish. Simply hold it further away and bring it up to temp. Or wait for the wife to go shopping and set the deep fryer on 400.         Lots of ways to soften loctite with out doing damage.
> 
> Darrell


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## Harvey Melvin Richards

18w said:


> I did the same conversion to the indicol as Tom Lipton did. Both mine and his were Noga's with the mag base. Mine unscrewed very easily. Perhaps they do use loctite on the collet stem version. You might try a little heat on the stem with a propane torch. Good luck, you will really like the indicol/noga setup.
> 
> Darrell



I did the same thing, except I hate how flimsy Indicols are, so I made my own that uses a Noga arm.


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## darkzero

Ron, when I made my Indicol to Noga I used the arm off a NF61003 so the arm had a male thread, I believe it was M5. Post #106 . I made an adapter to mount my Noga arm to the spindle mounting bracket instead of simply drilling & tapping it like Tom Lipton did.

As said I did not use a NF1018 or NF1022. However on my NF1018 I was able to remove the 8mm stem on mine. Mine did not have threadlock on the threads but it did have some sort of epoxy on the thread relief to hold it in place. I slightly torched mine & it loosed right up. IIRC the thread was M6 but the male thread was on the stem so you'll have to use a bolt to attach it or make a threaded male adapter. I'll see if I can find the original stem & snap a pic for you. I still need to snap pics of all mine & get them posted here. Been busy with work so I may not get to it till next week I expect.








If you can't get the stem off, you can however use your NF1022 & still do the conversion the way Shadon HKW did. Stan recently posted a video on how he did it. Starting at 32:30


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## wrmiller

Received my first Noga today. Medium sized with the adjustable base. Looks really good. Can't wait to try it out.


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## machinistmarty

You will be hooked.  I will probably never buy another starett


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## ronboult

Hi Will
I finally managed to remove the stem from my NF1022 with brute force on the spanners. Like yours mine has some sort of locking material on the stem and down onto the threads. The end of the arm has a 5mm female thread into which I will insert a stud to connect to the Indicol  Mount in a manner similar to yours. If I dont replace the thread lock I can use my NF1022 in either mode but I guess that after changing back and forth a few times I will settle on only one arrangement.

This will have to wait as I will be making a final decision on a new lathe this week. Pretty certain it will be the Sieg Runmaster 13 x40.
Will start a new thread when it arrives
Ron


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## PatMiles

Being a fan of Noga holders I had to order an NF1022. I pondered (can you take penicillin for ponder?) how to adapt the NF1022 to my Indicol and decided to turn the last 1/2" of the stem of the Noga to .250". Doing so let's me use the Noga with the Indicol or in a collet in my Bridgeport. I used my handy dandy Harbor Freight mini propane torch to loosen the factory threadlocker on the Noga with no harm done to the finish.


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## PatMiles

machinistmarty said:


> You will be hooked.  I will probably never buy another starett



+1


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## EmilioG

I will be buying my first Noga very soon.  For centering rotary tables though, I like Tom Griffins' idea of making a brass
piece that fit's in the tables center hole. 1 2 3 done.


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## EmilioG

I wrote to Noga and here is what they replied:
Hi Emilio,

I thank your e-mail dated yesterday.

Yes the stem is threaded into the ball and we use Loctite as well.

Maybe it will be possible the remove the stem by air heater instrument.

If not you may buy the arm and the top part separately: NF60003 and FA1500.

Best regards,

Avi

Noga

This is what I will do,.buy the arm in two pieces w/o Loctite.


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## EmilioG

For centering a rotary table by Tom griffin:  (in under a minute!).  The great Tom Griffin.





This is so cool.


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## sanddan

I like Tom's method. Any hints on the best way to machine the taper? I made a test bar to fit the taper on my rotary table that I use to indicate on but I am not sure I did a great job with the taper. I guess I would like a better fit than I got with mine. It looks like Tom's does not try to match the taper so only needs to have a big enough diameter to stop in the hole at some point. An easier part to make.


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## EmilioG

· 




Ron Hubbard 1 year ago
Tom, can you show us how you determined you needed a 3 degree taper over 1 inch. Then show us how you cut that taper. Sorry, I'm just a beginner. Sure this sounds elemental. I don't have taper gauges and wouldn't know how to use them if I did.  Thanks, Ron
 · 




Toms Techniques 1 year ago
Hey Ron, The 3º taper was just a WAG. I needed just enough to center up in the hole without falling through. I cut the taper using the taper attachment on my lathe. Another way to turn it would be to offset the tailstock slightly and yet another way would be to turn it using the compound rest set at an angle. Taper turning on the lathe is one of the topics that I haven't got to yet for my videos, but they will be coming. It doesn't require any special tools to measure a taper like this. You just convert the angle to taper per inch and use a pair of outside mics and a ruler to measure the diameters a known distance apart. Tom
Show less
 ·


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## darkzero

EmilioG said:


> you may buy the arm and the top part separately: NF60003 and FA1500.
> 
> This is what I will do,.buy the arm in two pieces w/o Loctite.



Do you have a source to buy the Noga parts or will you buy directly from them if possible? I looked a while back & could not find a vendor that sold individual parts that was not extremely expensive. If you do have a source, please share.

As I mentioned in post 19, I just took the arm off an entire assy. It was cheaper that way for me as they are almost always on sale & stacked a discount code on top of it.

I was able to remove the stem on my NF1018 but as I mentioned before, that leaves you with a female thread as opposed to a male thread if removing the arm from a mag base. Easy to adapt though. But the reason I removed my stem was not for the Indicol marriage. I made a 1/2" stem for mine. I got tired of using an 8mm collet in the mill.








EmilioG said:


> I will be buying my first Noga very soon.  For centering rotary tables though, I like Tom Griffins' idea of making a brass piece that fit's in the tables center hole. 1 2 3 done.



Unless I'm missing something (I have not watched the video you posted) if you're going to use an indicator to center a rotary table, why do you need to make an adapter? I center mine using a Blake Co-Ax directly off the RT's taper. I am making an centering adapter but it's meant to be used so an indicator is not needed. I'll post that when I'm done with it.


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## EmilioG

For a rotary table, I wouldn't bother with indicating.  I would just use the tapered tool in a collet, ala Tom Griffin.
Nicer to make out of steel and harden it.  You can also use a gage pins to center work in a lathe.
Tom is very ingenious and inventive.  He has a cool website also, Tom's Techniques.  Check it out.


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## darkzero

Ah yes, I read that wrong. Just woke up not too long ago. 

Yeah my idea for the tool is to use a collet in the spindle, center a chuck mounted on the RT, and a way to eject the taper all in one. Yeah I've seen some of his videos & have heard of him. He has some sort of "history" here too but that was before my time. I think he is or was a machining course instructor.


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## EmilioG

Amazon has the parts they sell through Travers, which is close to me here in NY, and others.
Tom Griffin was a HS shop teacher and is now a pro machinist for an Aerospace company in Michigan.


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## sanddan

darkzero said:


> If you can't get the stem off, you can however use your NF1022 & still do the conversion the way Shadon HKW did. Stan recently posted a video on how he did it. Starting at 32:30



The holder Stan showed with the 360 deg adjustable mag base is on my must buy list. They have that version with the on/off style magnet, p/n NF1024, just need to find the best price now. Amazon has it for $122 with free shipping, are there better prices out there than amazon?


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## EmilioG

Travers Tool has it for $114 and they're only a few miles away.
and http://www.penntoolco.com/nf-1024-1/  for $99


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## astjp2

EBAY


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## sanddan

astjp2 said:


> EBAY



Ebay prices were higher and didn't include shipping.


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## darkzero

EmilioG said:


> Amazon has the parts they sell through Travers, which is close to me here in NY, and others.



Thanks but unfortunately Travers doesn't offer the parts I'm looking for. I have a Travers outlet down the street from me. I do buy from them here & there but I'm not a fan of them. I rather buy from MSC which I also have an outlet 5 mins away from me.


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## darkzero

sanddan said:


> The holder Stan showed with the 360 deg adjustable mag base is on my must buy list. They have that version with the on/off style magnet, p/n NF1024, just need to find the best price now. Amazon has it for $122 with free shipping, are there better prices out there than amazon?
> View attachment 101292



I got my NF1024 from Enco for $99 shipped on a sale day. Enco charges me tax so if they don't for you you can get it for $8 cheaper. Unfortunately this model does not go on sale often at Enco, MSC, or Travers amongst the other models that usuallly do. The version with the permanent magnet does go on sale though. Penn Tool had the best price on it without shipping when I was looking but it was cheaper for me to go through Enco. Almost all of my Noga holders came from Enco & MSC.

The NF1024 is my new favorite Noga but it's not the one I use the most. I just wish it were bigger. The DG size works best for me. I've been meaning to ask Noga if they will offer a larger one, if not I may convert my own. I love the 360° fine adjust.


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## sanddan

I just looked on Enco's site and could not find the 1024. They did have the permanent magnet version but not the one you show in the pic above.


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## darkzero

It's one of those items that they carry but is not in their catalog. They have lots of items not yet in their catalog, to find them you have to use their search or google.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMIP&PMPXNO=3377531&PMAKA=890-1344


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## machinistmarty

Ive got a big boy noga along with a middle size one i suppose, I will have to look at the box for the number.  The big boy is too big for hobby work, i use it on our 38 inch swing lathe at work.


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## sanddan

Thanks Darkzero, I did a couple of search's on the Enco site but never found it.


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## EmilioG

Will, how is the Noga arm attached to the Mitutoyo DTI?
Do the Mitutoyo's come with a dovetail back?


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## darkzero

EmilioG said:


> Will, how is the Noga arm attached to the Mitutoyo DTI?
> Do the Mitutoyo's come with a dovetail back?



My Mitu DTI & Mitu DIs have dovetails. My Mitu DTI has dovetails on the back, rear & front but I usually only use the rear dovetail. All my Mitu DIs have dovetails on both sides of the case & is how I attach them to the Nogas as well. Seems like most people are Starrett fans but I am a Mitutoyo fan. The only Starrett indicator I own is a 196 back plunger but I pretty much never use it.


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## machinistmarty

different noga mounts i have made, the one in the middle is a dovetail i made (screwed and loctighted to the back)


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## machinistmarty




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## darkzero

darkzero said:


> The NF1024 is my new favorite Noga but it's not the one I use the most. I just wish it were bigger. The DG size works best for me. I've been meaning to ask Noga if they will offer a larger one, if not I may convert my own. I love the 360° fine adjust.




Well I finally made one.... DG w/ 360° fina djust

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/my-hybrid-noga-360-mod.51861/


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## EmilioG

Msc and Travers ToolCo and order any Noga part that one needs.  The DG 6061 I just bought, was on sale at Msc with free shipping.
I hope Noga makes a 360° FAT/FAB with long DG arms and a 176 lb. on/off mag.  Nice work DZ.  I really like that 1/2" stem for the centering holder and the "IndiNoga".


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