# Learning about 3D printers and looking for input



## Technical Ted (Jan 31, 2021)

I'm not ready to buy now, just on a fact finding quest to wade through all the different brands/models of 3D printers, their capabilities and the different filament material types. I'm pretty comfortable with Fusion 360 and think a 3D printer would be a nice addition to my shop capabilities. I also know there are a lot of files at various sites for free download.


I'm looking for suggestions and opinions on different printers. My use would be mostly for shop parts/items - practical/functional items. Although I'm sure I would make somethings for my grandson, I'm more focused on items used around the household and work shop, etc.. My budget would be $1000 max., but would rather go around $500 or less. I would have to weigh capabilities for the value (bang for the buck). For filament types, at a minimum PLA and ABS, although nylon, TPU, PETG, etc. would be very attractive.

Looks like the Prusa i3 mk3s+ is very popular (kind of the standard) at $800 plus shipping with a 4 week lead time (per their website). For less money, the Creality Ender 5 Pro seems popular at half the price. One that has really sparked my interest is the QIDI Tech X-Plus for $799 plus tax. Fully enclosed, large size, two print heads including a high temp one for printing nylon, carbon fiber and PC. I've read reviews from various sites and it is very well rated.



			https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JCKNQSZ/?coliid=I2TX0HQYGX1LIT&colid=19NOL0XGUB2VN&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
		


Well, I'm going to panic slowly, taking my time doing additional research and hopefully I won't get frustrated with all the different ones out there and just plain give up!

Thoughts, suggestions, ideas are welcome! 

Thanks,
Ted


----------



## DavidR8 (Jan 31, 2021)

Watching along Ted as I’m also thinking about a 3D printer. 

For what it’s worth, a fellow on another board bought a Creality Ender Pro 5 and had it up and printing in a matter of hours. 
Looks like there’s a big Creality community too.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Jan 31, 2021)

i own an Ender 3 and an Ender 5.
don't waste the time or money on the Ender 3, it works good after a lotta tweaks/upgrades
the Ender 5 has worked since i assembled it (less than 2 hours set up)- it is very stable and reliable
the Ender 3 seems to want to be tweaked now and again, especially with different materials

the Cura 4.8.1 slicer download that works very well, with both the Ender 3 and the Ender 5

i have printed in PLA, PLA+, Carbon Fiber PLA, TPU, PVB, SPLA between the 2 machines

the Prusa i hear is a great machine, 
i didn't want to invest (950 at the time) to play/learn with mysterious unknown technology- hence my Ender3 choice
after owning the ender 5- the ender3 is outclassed


----------



## jeffkash (Feb 1, 2021)

If you want to 3D print usable/useful objects buy the Prusa i3 MkIIs+. If you want to fiddle and tweak buy something lesser. Been there done that.


----------



## frugalguido (Feb 1, 2021)

I was in the same boat as you, wanted a 3d printer.  I purchased a Creality CR-6SE from Tinymachines.com.  I wanted something that worked out of the box, not another project, to much to learn without fixing problems. I highly recommend these guys out of Houston. They check out every printer before shipping, do upgrades as necessary. They carry different brands and there customer service is top notch, i.e. actually called me to tell me that the printer was shipping and thanking me for the purchase. I wanted someone to support me and the machine as I knew that there was going to be learning curve.









						Custom 3D Printers | Upgrades | Filament
					

Tiny Machines 3D - custom 3D printers and after sales support. The budget friendly Ender 3 V2+large scale Creality Ender 5 Plus to the fast Vivedino Troodon Core XY 3D Printer, we have you covered. See our full range of 3D printer upgrades : Bondtech, E3D, Micro Swiss, and Slice Engineering for...




					www.tinymachines3d.com


----------



## fursphere (Feb 1, 2021)

Hey there.  I'm a newbie in the home machine shop hobby, but I've been playing with and building 3D printers for a couple of years now.  

Couple of questions - 
1 - Work envelope?    How big of stuff do you want to print?  (bigger printers exponentially increases print times)
2 - Is a 3D printer a tinkering hobby or a tool to you?   
3 - Where will the machine be stored?   stable temperature matters 

If its more of a 'tool' to you, and you just want it to work without the fussing around, just get a Prusa MK3s (or a Prusa Mini if you want something smaller).  If you want to understand them, get the kit and save a few bucks, otherwise you can pay a little more and just get an assembled machine. 

I currently have two printers, and Prusa MK3s (with the MMU2s addon - that's a separate topic all together), and a Tevo Tornado (Creality CR10 clone) that I have rebuilt / modified so much its basically a large Prusa MK3s clone at this point.  I probably put more money into it than I paid for it to get it the way I wanted.  The Prusa MK3s on the other hand is still stock.  And my "go to" printer for just getting things done.  

Anyway, I hope that helps a little.  Creality makes good stuff.  But you'll have to work on it here and there.   The Prusa more of a well oiled machine and "just works".


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 1, 2021)

fursphere said:


> Hey there.  I'm a newbie in the home machine shop hobby, but I've been playing with and building 3D printers for a couple of years now.
> 
> Couple of questions -
> 1 - Work envelope?    How big of stuff do you want to print?  (bigger printers exponentially increases print times)
> ...


Right now, it's between the Prusa i3 mk3s+ and the QIDI Tech X-Plus. I've read a lot about both and they both seem to be good machines. The only comparisons I've seen between the two head to head the QIDI comes out on top because of the full enclosure, quiet operation, two print heads and bigger envelop. Have any experience with this one?

Further, if getting the Prusa, which plate would you (or others) suggest? Buying both increases the cost enough that I'll have to pay VAT so that doesn't seem to make sense at this point.

Edit: Forgot to add that both of the two possible places I will set this up will be on the cold side during the winter. With this, I would think the full enclosure would be best, especially if printing with nylon??? And, it will be more of a tool than toy, although I will probably end up playing with it also.

Thanks,
Ted


----------



## fursphere (Feb 1, 2021)

I personally use the textured sheet.  With PLA I use a little glue stick to make things stick.  Washes off with warm water.  PETG sticks without anything.  Just clean up with iso alcohol before printing PETG.   

I don't know anything about the QIDI Tech X-Plus - but it looks like another Chinese import printer.   That's not bad per say, but could run into long term support issues with updates and what not.   But if you're a DIY kind of person, that isn't an issue.   But in the 3+ years I've owned the Tevo Tornado, they've never released a firmware update.  (I have since moved it to a native Marlin build to add the features I wanted to it - which means compiling my own firmware from source)    Where Prusa is constantly releasing updates with new features, and they also have their own in house slicer (CAM) software that is paired nicely with their printers.   All open source.   It all depends on just how involved your want to get with the thing vs. just using it as another tool in your toolbox. 

You only need an enclosure if you're printing ABS due to warping issues.  With PLA enclosures need to be left open, or you'll have print issues.  PETG is somewhere in the middle.  I leave my enclosure open.   And I built an enclosure for my Prusa out of Ikea LACK tables.  Cheap and easy.


----------



## CluelessNewB (Feb 1, 2021)

I have had a Creality CR-10S (not the pro version) for about 18 months now.   I have only printed PLA so far.  The only modification I have made to the machine is to add an adapter so I can use full size SD cards (those micro-SD are finebut  too small to be swapping in and out all the time).  The adapter was about $7 from Amazon.  I have printed a bunch of stuff and have zero problems with it except those that were self induced (bad design, learning slicer settings etc.)  I use the free Cura slicer,  mostly version 4.8 but there was a bug introduced after 4.4 that screws up import of jpg and png image files that hasn't been fixed correctly yet so I do sometimes use 4.4.   When I first got the machine I went through setting up the machine based on a video I found on Youtube that had lots of good hints on things to set and adjust.  I use glue stick on the original glass, no tape, no fancy mats.  Maybe I got lucky but I don't have any problems leveling the bed, in fact I have only done it twice,  once when I got the machine and a second time after I moved it.          ​


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 1, 2021)

OK, a confession.... I couldn't take it anymore! I just pulled the trigger on the Prusa i3 Mk3S+ kit with textured plate for just under $800 shipped. 4 week lead time. 

I was back and forth between this and the QIDI. I decided to go with the "rock". Fully open source, huge community, what appears to be great support, great reputation, etc.. 

Now, I'm interested in input on the different filament types and what brands of each users are having good luck with. But, I'll soon start a dedicated thread for that since it's a big topic change. I'm also interested in any suggested forum groups and internet sites for the Prusa printers and 3D printers in general. I've got a lot to learn! But, that's what makes things fun! 

Thanks to all that replied!
Ted


----------



## fursphere (Feb 1, 2021)

Congrats!  And welcome to 3d printing insanity.

I usually buy filament from Amazon.  Hatchbox, Filacube, Paramount 3D (might be a little cheaper to buy direct from Paramount), Overture, Amazon Basics.   You almost can't go wrong with PLA.  TPU (flex) is where I've had some challenges, but I rarely use the stuff.    

Paramount has sample packs too - you can get a whole bunch of colors to find what you're looking for.  I had a few projects where I needed a good military green - and there's was the best I could find.  Ended up using like 4-5 rolls of it.  

Amazon Basics is a toss up.  They rebrand filament from other companies.  Last roll of Black PETG Amazon Basics I bought was Overature re-branded.  Printed great - no issues.    I've never had any issues with Amazon Basics filament (PLA and PETG), just know they don't make it themselves.  

Prusament - Prusa's in house brand of filament is good stuff, but very expensive.  You have to buy like $200 worth to get free shipping from Czech, and that doesn't get you a whole lot.  So I stick to the brands mentioned above.  You won't go wrong with Prusament, but you'll a premium for it.


----------



## fursphere (Feb 1, 2021)

Oh.   PLA vs PETG...    

PLA has a glass transition point of something like 80c.  Where it starts to get soft / warp.  PETG is much higher.  I've had some R/C parts I printed warp in the car in the summer here.  Switching those parts (reprinting) with PETG solved that issue.   That said, I leave PLA printed stuff in the hot garage all summer without issue.   So just be mindful of where the printed object will be used, and choose the material accordingly.   ABS/ASA is ever higher hear resistance than PETG.


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 1, 2021)

fursphere said:


> Oh.   PLA vs PETG...
> 
> PLA has a glass transition point of something like 80c.  Where it starts to get soft / warp.  PETG is much higher.  I've had some R/C parts I printed warp in the car in the summer here.  Switching those parts (reprinting) with PETG solved that issue.   That said, I leave PLA printed stuff in the hot garage all summer without issue.   So just be mindful of where the printed object will be used, and choose the material accordingly.   ABS/ASA is ever higher hear resistance than PETG.


Thanks for the info. What's your favorite go to material for items that you might use around your work shop? I know this might be a pretty "general" question and the answer is probably "it depends", but would like to hear any input you, or others, have.

Thanks!
Ted


----------



## Just for fun (Feb 1, 2021)

Congrats on the new printer!


----------



## KevinM (Feb 1, 2021)

Stick with PLA (easiest to print, no flex at all, low melting point) , PETG (very tough, slightly flexible), flexible filament (TPU/TPE).  Save ABS (my favorite, needs full enclosure, acetone melts it) and nylon (lots of shrinkage/warping) for later.


----------



## fursphere (Feb 1, 2021)

For a quick example, these collet holders and 1-2-3 tray were printed in PLA, because its what I had on hand at the time.  (on the Prusa)


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 1, 2021)

fursphere said:


> For a quick example, these collet holders and 1-2-3 tray were printed in PLA, because its what I had on hand at the time.  (on the Prusa)


Nice! You said you made an enclosure for your Prusa. Would you care to share some pictures, diagrams, whatever? I know I'm going to be making one.

Thanks!
Ted


----------



## fursphere (Feb 1, 2021)

Here ya go....

How to build a simple, cheap enclosure for your 3D printer - Prusa Printers

You print parts out to assemble it.


----------



## jwmelvin (Feb 1, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> What's your favorite go to material for items that you might use around your work shop?



I tend to use PETG for almost everything but sometimes the higher modulus of PLA is a benefit. PETG prints without issue for me (Prusa mk2s). I imagine that one of the PLA+ variants would be quite good, as they are tolerant of higher temperatures than straight PLA. 

Get some threaded inserts for plastic. While you can thread directly into the plastic, and for larger sizes can print the threads directly, threaded inserts make for a stronger and nicer joint. Like these: https://www.mcmaster.com/Threaded-Inserts/heat-set-inserts-for-plastic-7/

The flexible filaments like TPU are neat sometimes but are pretty tricky to print, IME.


----------



## middle.road (Feb 1, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> OK, a confession.... I couldn't take it anymore! I just pulled the trigger on the Prusa i3 Mk3S+ kit with textured plate for just under $800 shipped. 4 week lead time.
> 
> I was back and forth between this and the QIDI. I decided to go with the "rock". Fully open source, huge community, what appears to be great support, great reputation, etc..
> 
> ...


Stepson got one at Christmas and he's really rocking it. I keep forwarding tips and tricks to him.
He was having problems a couple of weeks ago, and he has it set up in a spare room of their house.
I mentioned that he should be sure that nothing was 'blowing' on it, such as HVAC, etc.
He figured out quickly that the ceiling fan was causing him difficulties.


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 1, 2021)

I have a Prusa i3 Mk2.5S.  Love it. 
You will love the Mk3 with the 24 volt steppers.  They are so much quieter than mine.  Printing in a cold room could be problematic but enclosing it will help.
I use PETG almost exclusively and is my go to filament.  @Furshpere has given you a lot of great information.  

You will find the uses to be almost endless.  I am currently working on my own custom version of drill and tap storage to fit in a wood cabinet.  

Just a few of the many, many items I have made over the course of a year or so.
Cord strain relief for my VFD.  Surface grinder wheel keeper.  Replacement part for my drill doctor.  Enclosure for my wood stove controller.  Mill way slot whachamajiggie and finally a WD40 can holder for my lathe.  This is just a sampling.


----------



## brino (Feb 1, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> Now, I'm interested in input on the different filament types and what brands of each users are having good luck with.



I am printing about 99% PLA and PLA+. Small amounts of HIPS, want to try some PETG.

My absolute favourite source for PLA was Verbatim, but I now can barely find it.
Have had good results with eSun, MG-Chemicals, LulzBot and DigitMakers branded filament.
(Digit Makers is Canadian so I find the prices and shipping way better than most other sources.)

There was only one brand that I've totally given up on; Overture from Amazon was a complete failure!
We tried tweaking all kinds of parameters, but never even had one successful print with it.
Will never buy more of that.....

-brino


----------



## Aaron_W (Feb 1, 2021)

I went through the same debate and also went with the Prusa. I liked that they come pretty much ready to go no need to make modifications. The company also seems to be very solid and helps people make the upgrades to their machines to keep them current as the design is improved. 
I found mine arrived in much less time than they had quoted, I think they were saying 6-8 weeks back in August when I ordered mine and I got it in about 4 weeks. 

they ship with Gummy bears too, so there is that. 

Embarrassingly I have to admit that I got mine in September and am just now getting around to setting it up.


----------



## GunsOfNavarone (Feb 1, 2021)

I bought the End 5 pro and its great and all...but I'd get something without a bowden tube (direct drive)


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 1, 2021)

I would not buy a 3D printer with a bowden tube.   Or a single Z-axis motor.  Or a glass bed.  I had one of those and it was a nightmare. (Lulzbot)


----------



## brino (Feb 2, 2021)

7milesup said:


> I would not buy a 3D printer with a bowden tube. Or a single Z-axis motor. Or a glass bed. I had one of those and it was a nightmare. (Lulzbot)



I have had a Luzlbot for 4 years or so....but I had to lookup what the heck a bowden tube was.

It's just the same concept as a pull gun vs. push gun for wire-feed welding.
Aluminum uses a "spool gun" with the wire drive near the torch tip since you can't reliable push 10 feet of aluminum wire.
For steel wire MIG having the wire drive in the machine is no problem.

Turns out my Taz-6 is the direct drive type (pull gun) so that's why I did NOT know the term.
It's not even 8am and I learned something new today!

-brino


----------



## fursphere (Feb 2, 2021)

That's a really good comparison.  I had never considered my MIG to be a "bowden tube" system.     

The big difference though is that with 3D printing, there are constant retractions going on.  Push/pull constantly.  This is to increase or decrease pressure in the hotend of the liquid plastic inside.  Retration removes pressure and stops oozing.  Both direct drive and bowden tube systems do this.  Bowden tubes add a larger margin of error (slop) to the retraction activity, which is why they are seen as undesirable.   A properly sized bowden tube (high quality PTFE tubing), and proper fitting connects at each end can go a long way to remove this 'slop' and make the system work a lot better.

Most of the lower end machines do not come with the higher quality tubing, or the proper connectors (to save costs I'd assume).  This is tuning and tinkering comes in.   I had my Tornado (CR10 Clone, bowden tube) printing flexible filaments with success.  Took a long time to get it dialed in.   Then junked that setup and went to a direct drive anyway, which works significantly better.  

Long story short - bowden tubes aren't bad.  They just require a lot more tuning and maintenance.  And you have to do a lot more filament profile tweaking.


----------



## ttabbal (Feb 2, 2021)

I have had a Lulzbot Mini for years now. It's a great printer and ready out of the box. I wouldn't call it perfect, but it does a good job. I recently did some upgrades. A newer design of extruder helped a lot, though my older one was probably just getting a little beat up. I also added a BL Touch sensor and modified the firmware to use it. 

For a glass bed, I really like thicker PEI sheets. I have one that's about 4x the thickness of the stock Lulzbot sheet. It doesn't bubble and such and holds up better to the constant heating/cooling/part removal. The newer style that many are using with removable and flexible print surfaces look really nice and probably much easier to remove parts from. 

These days for a new buy, I'd probably go with a Prusa. They are a proven quality manufacturer and it has some nice features. Creality is building some nice printers as well. They have gotten good at value engineering the setups and look to be nicer than I expected. 

PETG is my go-to filament. It's strong and resistant to heat and most chemicals, and easier to print than most with similar properties. Here's one of my more recent prints, fun to make things with moving parts that can be useful. I wouldn't mount it to my metal lathe, but it clamps well for a plastic chuck. I plan to use it as part of a rotary axis for my laser.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 2, 2021)

Wow the Prusa's are $1200 in Canada! <gulp/>


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 2, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Wow the Prusa's are $1200 in Canada! <gulp/>


Are they charging you a VAT in Canada?

Ted


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 2, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> Are they charging you a VAT in Canada?
> 
> Ted


It's 25% currency exchange, plus taxes and duties.


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 2, 2021)

I should have quantified my statement about Lulzbot by saying that the one I had was a very early edition.  Don't even remember what they called it but it literally might have been the first one they brought out.

The flex build plate is worth its weight in gold to me.  Pull it off, flex it, and your print comes right off.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 2, 2021)

I think for my needs one of the Creality machines (Ender 3 or 5) is likely where I'll end up. It's hard for me to justify the cost of a Prusa.


----------



## Aaron_W (Feb 2, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> I think for my needs one of the Creality machines (Ender 3 or 5) is likely where I'll end up. It's hard for me to justify the cost of a Prusa.



The way it was explained to me, is kind of like buying the cheapest mini-lathe or buying one of the higher end ones from LMS or Micromark. In the end you will spend about the same to get the same place, but the more expensive one starts off there, and the other gets there over time with more work from the buyer. 
The Ender 5 does have a slightly larger build volume. 
Prusa has introduced a cheaper "mini" 3D printer to compete with the cheaper end of the market.   

The big thing for me is I did not want another machine I would spend more time tinkering with instead of making things, and it sounded like the cheaper machines often lead to much tinkering.


----------



## Weldingrod1 (Feb 2, 2021)

With the Ender, you need to be willing to tinker. The guys in Houston who tune them before shipping them to you will improve things some...

The main drawback of PETG in my book is the inability to glue, solvent weld, or chemical finish it. I'm an ABS guy!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## middle.road (Feb 2, 2021)

7milesup said:


> I would not buy a 3D printer with a bowden tube.   Or a single Z-axis motor.  Or a glass bed.  I had one of those and it was a nightmare. (Lulzbot)


So that PoS FlashForge with it's glass plate that I have sitting in the basement gathering dust and cobwebs, I shall walk away from it...  
I've been reading through all our posts thinking "I should get that running..." Now I have to wonder what the frustration level would be.
PS: What the devil is a bowden tube? (I am off to search on that but figured I'd ask.) 

*EDIT* I should have scrolled down before replying...


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 2, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> The way it was explained to me, is kind of like buying the cheapest mini-lathe or buying one of the higher end ones from LMS or Micromark. In the end you will spend about the same to get the same place, but the more expensive one starts off there, and the other gets there over time with more work from the buyer.
> The Ender 5 does have a slightly larger build volume.
> Prusa has introduced a cheaper "mini" 3D printer to compete with the cheaper end of the market.
> 
> The big thing for me is I did not want another machine I would spend more time tinkering with instead of making things, and it sounded like the cheaper machines often lead to much tinkering.



Thanks Aaron, I’ll have a closer look at the Prusa lineup.


----------



## ttabbal (Feb 2, 2021)

Weldingrod1 said:


> With the Ender, you need to be willing to tinker. The guys in Houston who tune them before shipping them to you will improve things some...
> 
> The main drawback of PETG in my book is the inability to glue, solvent weld, or chemical finish it. I'm an ABS guy!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk



That is a good point. It's chemical resistant nature can be a down side for things that rely on it like solvent welding. ABS can be annoying without an enclosure, but it does have advantages. It also shrinks more than most others. 

PLA is easier to print, but also doesn't solvent weld or chemical finish. 

I tend to use fasteners for multi part prints when I can, or just use ABS and acetone. Having options is good. I'm not a one size fits all kind of guy. I even have polycarbonate and nylon, but those are even more annoying than ABS.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 2, 2021)

Weldingrod1 said:


> With the Ender, you need to be willing to tinker. The guys in Houston who tune them before shipping them to you will improve things some...
> 
> The main drawback of PETG in my book is the inability to glue, solvent weld, or chemical finish it. I'm an ABS guy!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk



Interestingly they only check the machines shipped to US destinations. 
If I order an Ender from them, it comes from China.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 2, 2021)

Dang the Prusa Mini is over $700CDN!


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 2, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Dang the Prusa Mini is over $700CDN!


Have you looked at Kiwi (I think that is what it is called; Craigslist equiv.)?

What about someone shipping you one from the States.  How does that work, or wouldn't it.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 2, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Have you looked at Kiwi (I think that is what it is called; Craigslist equiv.)?
> 
> What about someone shipping you one from the States.  How does that work, or wouldn't it.


Used market here is laughable unfortunately.
Your second idea is a good one. The Prusa Mini kit is 349USD. Add 25% for exchange and it's $436CDN. That's a price I can handle for a quality printer. No idea what it might cost to ship from Wherever USA to me in Victoria BC. Guaranteed it would be less than the difference between 700 and 436!


----------



## slodat (Feb 2, 2021)

I didn’t want to fuss with building a printer. I bought a pre-assembled Prusa i3MK3 about 18 months ago. Worked flawlessly out of the box and continues to. I added an Octopi which really makes it much more user friendly. Very happy with it!


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 2, 2021)

slodat said:


> I didn’t want to fuss with building a printer. I bought a pre-assembled Prusa i3MK3 about 18 months ago. Worked flawlessly out of the box and continues to. I added an Octopi which really makes it much more user friendly. Very happy with it!



I’d like one but I can’t justify the cost in CDN dollars.


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 3, 2021)

slodat said:


> I didn’t want to fuss with building a printer. I bought a pre-assembled Prusa i3MK3 about 18 months ago. Worked flawlessly out of the box and continues to. I added an Octopi which really makes it much more user friendly. Very happy with it!


What does Octopi do for you?  Just curious.

To me, a really cool upgrade for the Prusa would be a touch screen.  I have seen one person do it but have not looked into it.


----------



## RandyWilson (Feb 3, 2021)

The Prusa is made and ships from Prague, so I'm not sure the US<>Cdn exchange rate applies. 


Octoprint / Octopi.   Before I installed it, I would go to the garage and retrieve the micro-SD card. Return to the desk, fumble around inserting the SD, mount, copy files, unmount, return to the garage with SD, fumble inserting it, start the printer, select the file. PRINT. Watch the first few minutes to make sure things were going as planned. Then there would be trips to the garage every 10-15 minutes to check on things. 

 With Octoprint, it is now upload the file from desktop to Pi, hit print. Watch the auto-bed-leveling and print start on the camera, check on the print job occasionally via camera. When the print is done, go to the garage for the first time, retrieve print. Clean bed, and ready for the next one.


I've missed a few days of forum reading;  haven't read the entire thread yet. I bought my printer five months ago. Creality Ender 5 Pro. I have added a glass bed plate, bed leveler, filament sensor, and finally the Pi running octopi. Roughly $550US all told, not including consumables, to get a solid machine.


----------



## slodat (Feb 3, 2021)

Randy summed up what Octoprint/Octopi does quite well. I haven't taken the SD card out of my printer since I setup Octoprint. Drag and drop on my desktop PC. Check the camera here and there on long prints. Works well. Totally changes the relationship with the printer.

Prusa quoted like 3-4 weeks when I ordered my printer. If I recall correctly, it took about 8 or so days to get here. Packed VERY well. Can't say enough good stuff about the pre-assembled Prusa i3!


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 3, 2021)

RandyWilson said:


> The Prusa is made and ships from Prague, so I'm not sure the US<>Cdn exchange rate applies.


Yeah not sure sure what's going on but the US price for a Prusa i3 KM3s kit is $749 from Prusa3d.com.
Lowest price in Canada is $1049. The US dollar is slightly stronger against the Czech krona so perhaps that's the difference.


----------



## fursphere (Feb 3, 2021)

Just wanted to add another vote for Octoprint as well.  I have one one each of my machines.


----------



## ttabbal (Feb 3, 2021)

Octoprint is great. And there are a number of raspberry pi cases and camera mounts available for most printers. They make nice early projects while tuning print profiles and such.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 4, 2021)

Shocking no one more than myself a Creality CR-20 Pro came up for sale locally last night. 
I messaged the seller so we shall see what happens.


----------



## RandyWilson (Feb 4, 2021)

Solid machine with all of the upgrades I've done, sans the Octopi, already built in.  I'm not familiar with the CR series.  The Ender series went from an 8 bit to a 32 bit controller in 08/20 with nearly zero fanfare.  They also went to "silent" steppers a bit earlier.  The '20 Pro appears to have been released in 19, and has at least two different boards. But I can not as yet find board details. I'm gonna poke around the Marlin source code and see if something is mentioned.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 4, 2021)

The seller had it listed for $500.
Listing upgrades as 4mm nozzle (plus 6mm)
All metal extruder. ($80)
Auto bed levellling (this is standard on the CR-20 Pro)
Glass build plate ($30)
Roll of filament (no idea what)

Came down to $480 when I told him that 3DprinterCanada had it for $450 inc. free shipping. 
Seller went to $450 without the filament or 6mm nozzle.
At $450 I'm getting maybe $100 (retail) in upgrades and saving the tax. 
Same build volume as the Ender 3 series, same basic design. I can get a new Ender 3 V2 for $350 shipped. 
I don't see the upside to the CR20...


----------



## RandyWilson (Feb 4, 2021)

Sorry, got distracted by a shiny new This old Tony video. 

Best I can tell, the CR-20 came with an 8 bit board. But it's a newer, betterer 8-bit board than the Ender series had. I have not found proof of them switching to the V4.x 32 bit board or not.

Check Amazon for prices. Nozzles are cheap, I think I paid less than $10 for an assortment of 25 from .2mm to 1.0mm. Nozzles are consumables. Filament is $25 for a 1Kg spool. US prices, of course.

The built in BT-Touch bed leveler is a must. You would have to add this to the Ender. Filament runout sensor is a nice feature. When it works. And doesn't false. The CR uses a Mk10 extruder, where the Ender uses a Mk8.  Again, I'm not sure how much difference that makes in the real world, as I only have a mk8.

If you are looking at new machines, I highly recommend the Ender 5 series over the Ender 3. The box is much more stable.  The add ons can be built in, or you can add them yourself. Adding them yourself you learn how they work and how to adjust them, which you WILL have to learn either way.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 4, 2021)

RandyWilson said:


> Sorry, got distracted by a shiny new This old Tony video.
> 
> Best I can tell, the CR-20 came with an 8 bit board. But it's a newer, betterer 8-bit board than the Ender series had. I have not found proof of them switching to the V4.x 32 bit board or not.
> 
> ...


Thanks Randy, looks like a new Ender 5 is the same price as what this fellow was asking.


----------



## kdtop (Feb 4, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> OK, a confession.... I couldn't take it anymore! I just pulled the trigger on the Prusa i3 Mk3S+ kit with textured plate for just under $800 shipped. 4 week lead time.
> 
> I was back and forth between this and the QIDI. I decided to go with the "rock". Fully open source, huge community, what appears to be great support, great reputation, etc..
> 
> ...



Hey all, first time poster here...

I am a new hobby machinist, and was involved in 3D printers before starting machining.  I have a Lulzbot TAZ6, but I don't think anyone will go wrong with the Prusa line.  They have a good reputation.

A few comments:

I have encountered a few machinist that sort of turn up their noses at 3D printing.  After all, its end-product is wimpy plastic, and the tolerances are nowhere close to what can be achieved with metal.  (Indeed, it was just such issues that made me start exploring metal working.)  But I would encourage all to keep an open mind about out the technology, as it can supplement traditional manufacturing.  For example, they can be used for rapid prototyping with the production of parts that can be checked for fit etc before committing to the time/cost/effort of traditional manufacturing.  They can be used for pattern making for casting, and they can be used for making cases etc.  And sometimes, if high strength is not needed, it can be used to make actual one-off parts.  For example, I've made parts to hold an indicator on my lathe, and another part to hold a vacuum hose near my part by fastening to my quick-change tool post. 


When I started with 3D printing, I had to buy a kit consisting of plastic parts and threaded rod, and assemble the thing over the course of a week.  It was really hard for me at the beginning and I always worry others will have as much trouble as I did.  Fortunately, the machines have gotten much better and easier, and there are tons of YouTube videos to help beginners get going.  There is even a website that catalogs all the typical problems people get, e.g. under extrusion, excess stringing etc and give solutions.   There are many many forums to help newcomers get going.  So feel free to reach out.


If wondering about the quality of a given 3D printer, I have found that the YouTuber Maker's Muse is very knowledgeable, and gives fair and thorough machine reviews.  For example, here is his review of the Prusia Mk3 from 2 yrs ago (



)


Regarding various filaments, it's fun to go wild.  I prefer to get one manufacturer that I'm comfortable with and get the settings dialed in.  But then I'm not all that adventurous.    
Best Wishes,

Kevin


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 4, 2021)

kdtop said:


> There is even a website that catalogs all the typical problems people get, e.g. under extrusion, excess stringing etc and give solutions.   There are many many forums to help newcomers get going.  So feel free to reach out.


Thanks and welcome to H-M Kevin.
Do you have a link to the website you mention?


----------



## kdtop (Feb 4, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks and welcome to H-M Kevin.
> Do you have a link to the website you mention?



I think there are many sites, but I think this is the one I had seen before:
www . simplify3d . com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/

Sorry the link is not clickable.  When I made it a normal link, the forum software said it looked like I was posting spam, and wouldn't allow it.  It is probably because I am a newcomer.

Kevin


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 4, 2021)

kdtop said:


> Hey all, first time poster here...
> 
> I am a new hobby machinist, and was involved in 3D printers before starting machining.  I have a Lulzbot TAZ6, but I don't think anyone will go wrong with the Prusa line.  They have a good reputation.
> 
> ...


Welcome to HM. Prusa has their own forum on their site which seems pretty active and helpful.

Ted


----------



## middle.road (Feb 4, 2021)

kdtop said:


> Hey all, first time poster here...
> 
> I am a new hobby machinist, and was involved in 3D printers before starting machining.  I have a Lulzbot TAZ6, but I don't think anyone will go wrong with the Prusa line.  They have a good reputation.
> 
> ...


Welcome aboard, and thanks for the insight.


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 4, 2021)

kdtop said:


> A few comments:
> 
> I have encountered a few machinist that sort of turn up their noses at 3D printing.  After all, its end-product is wimpy plastic, and the tolerances are nowhere close to what can be achieved with metal.



I think that 3D printing and machining are, as Forest said, like peas and carrots! I've been thinking about getting one for a while, but just now finally bit the bullet. I started machining back in the 1970's and think 3D printing has a new world to offer me. 

Which leads me to ask which filament(s) are best for machinability? 

I can easily picture printing a part, maybe out of nylon?, that would need some finishing operations on machine tools. Light duty gears, pulleys, you name it. If you can't print it to the fit/tolerances you need, you can always print them a little heavy for machining after.

Anyone done my machining of printed parts? If so, what filaments work well and any other comments you might have???

Thanks,
Ted


----------



## kdtop (Feb 5, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> I think that 3D printing and machining are, as Forest said, like peas and carrots! I've been thinking about getting one for a while, but just now finally bit the bullet. I started machining back in the 1970's and think 3D printing has a new world to offer me.
> 
> Which leads me to ask which filament(s) are best for machinability?
> 
> ...



Because the 3D printed part is laid down layer by layer, it is never going to be as strong as solid plastic, like Delrin.  Also, most 3D parts are not printed solid, so only so much could be taken off before you would get into the semi-hollow inside.  Of course one can change those settings in the slicer program.  

Having said that, I have done cleanup of round parts by putting them in my lathe, and the plastic (PLA) cuts great.  So you would need to play around with it, but it is definitely doable.   Drilling, on the other hand, doesn't work well.  The friction inside the hole causes the plastic to heat  up and turn into molten goo.  A boring bar in a large hole works fine.  

For filaments, I like 3M Verbatim like of PLA.   Nylon, just FYI, is a pain to work with.  It has to be kept very very dry or it absorbs up to 50% by weight of ambient atmospheric water.  And then that water causes bubbles in the plastic as it comes out of the hot end.  

Kevin


----------



## Janderso (Feb 5, 2021)

I watched this video this morning. I'm never going to be able to program a product in Fusion 360 = Old dog and all.
But, I am amazed at this simple example of a guy that comes up with a plan, draws it out then prints it.
The possibilities are limitless.


----------



## Aaron_W (Feb 5, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> I think that 3D printing and machining are, as Forest said, like peas and carrots! I've been thinking about getting one for a while, but just now finally bit the bullet. I started machining back in the 1970's and think 3D printing has a new world to offer me.
> 
> Which leads me to ask which filament(s) are best for machinability?
> 
> ...



I've been curious about that as well. From an appearance perspective some people use a sandable primer to help fill in the layers before giving it a finish sand, but with the current generation of printers this seems less necessary since the layering is much less pronounced.

One of the uses I have for it is making masters for resin casting. Because of the time required to print 3D printing isn't usually a great production tool, but it is really good for one off parts which can then be made more efficiently using other methods. I understand some of the 3D materials also lend themselves to the "lost wax" type of metal casting.



Janderso said:


> I watched this video this morning. I'm never going to be able to program a product in Fusion 360 = Old dog and all.
> But, I am amazed at this simple example of a guy that comes up with a plan, draws it out then prints it.
> The possibilities are limitless.



I'm finding that there are a ton of pre-made designs you can download and print so you don't have to be a master of CAD programs to make a 3D printer a useful tool. Most of the stuff I see people showing off are Baby Yodas, bundled up Bernies and such, but there are more practical things out there.
There are drawer organizers and tool holders available which alone could probably help justify the cost for one of the cheaper printers. It wouldn't take many tool holders or geegaws to make a $250 printer earn its keep.

Thingiverse tool holders

I'm still trying to learn Fusion 360, but intend to start learning how the printer itself works by printing some existing designs.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 5, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> I'm finding that there are a ton of pre-made designs you can download and print so you don't have to be a master of CAD programs to make a 3D printer a useful tool. Most of the stuff I see people showing off are Baby Yodas, bundled up Bernies and such, but there are more practical things out there.
> There are drawer organizers and tool holders available which alone could probably help justify the cost for one of the cheaper printers. It wouldn't take many tool holders or geegaws to make a $250 printer earn its keep.
> 
> Thingiverse tool holders


Organizing and tool storage is exactly why I'm looking at a 3D printer.


----------



## Pierre52 (Feb 5, 2021)

Here are two links with some excellent examples of using 3D printing for tool storage:
Clough 42 with how to design and make tool holders




and
crazy guy Alexandre Chapell, a very clever designer who has designed and made available so brilliant parts and tool storage ideas





From my experience, a properly tuned filament 3D printer will consistently produce items to within 0.1mm


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 5, 2021)

Decided to jump in with an Ender 3 V2 today.
Still working on my F360 skills!


----------



## RandyWilson (Feb 5, 2021)

I would say my printing is 10% self-designs with FreeCad, 90% downloaded form Thingiverse. A few nights ago the wife came to me with a catalog in hand and asked if I could make "one of these".  It was a simple little caddie that snaps onto a laundry soap jug with a platform to hold the cup below the nozzle (drips are always a problem).  I jumped over to the thingiverse tab, it's always open, typed in a bit of search, and asked "what color do you want?"  Yes, I have a spool of Tide orange in PLA+. 


Congrats, David. Welcome to the deepest rabbit hole on the planet. When you get the machine, pop the bottom cover off of the base and snap a picture of the motherboard. The 32 bit version should have V4.2.x screened on.


----------



## Aaron_W (Feb 5, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Decided to jump in with an Ender 3 V2 today.
> Still working on my F360 skills!



I know several people who have Ender 3s and like them. They have made upgrades to theirs but you can do that over time and as you find areas you would like to improve. It is hard to beat the Crealty printers for price which makes them very popular for people who run a bunch of printers, they are not just popular for the entry level to 3D printing.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 5, 2021)

RandyWilson said:


> Congrats, David. Welcome to the deepest rabbit hole on the planet. When you get the machine, pop the bottom cover off of the base and snap a picture of the motherboard. The 32 bit version should have V4.2.x screened on.





Aaron_W said:


> I know several people who have Ender 3s and like them. They have made upgrades to theirs but you can do that over time and as you find areas you would like to improve. It is hard to beat the Crealty printers for price which makes them very popular for people who run a bunch of printers, they are not just popular for the entry level to 3D printing.


Thanks gents, I have burned up the net for the last couple of weeks, hemmed and hawed over Creality, Prusa and the BiQu B1. 
I could not justify the $1000 for the Prusa, The BiQu was an additional $100 over the Ender. Part of what helped make my decision was the Ender community.


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 5, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Decided to jump in with an Ender 3 V2 today.
> Still working on my F360 skills!



Congrats! One thing, you'll get your Ender before I get my Prusa! I still have 3-1/2 weeks to wait (if it ships on time)!

Have fun!
Ted


----------



## brino (Feb 5, 2021)

kdtop said:


> Hey all, first time poster here...


Great post!


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 14, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Decided to jump in with an Ender 3 V2 today.
> Still working on my F360 skills!



How are you making out with your new printer? I'm sure you've learned a lot by now...

Ted


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 14, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> How are you making out with your new printer? I'm sure you've learned a lot by now...
> 
> Ted


It's still in transit 
ETA Tuesday <fingerscrossed/>


----------



## Weldingrod1 (Feb 14, 2021)

I've machined printed ABS quite a few times. Cuts just fine and you can get good surface finish.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 14, 2021)

Weldingrod1 said:


> I've machined printed ABS quite a few times. Cuts just fine and you can get good surface finish.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


I've read that ABS is kind of nasty to print...fumes etc...
How did you find it to use?


----------



## Weldingrod1 (Feb 14, 2021)

Yes, its nasty. You MUST have an exhaust fan and enclosure. But, it glues, paints, welds, and is drop kick-able.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 14, 2021)

Weldingrod1 said:


> Yes, its nasty. You MUST have an exhaust fan and enclosure. But, it glues, paints, welds, and is drop kick-able.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk



Is it literally the same thing as ABS pipe?


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 16, 2021)

Well my printer arrived today but I’m in the bloody hospital diagnosed with pulmonary embolisms. 
Dang it!


----------



## vtcnc (Feb 16, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Well my printer arrived today but I’m in the bloody hospital diagnosed with pulmonary embolisms.
> Dang it!



Whoa! That’s serious! You ok?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brino (Feb 16, 2021)

Oh crap David!

Early diagnosis and treatment are essential.
Do what your Doctors and your loving partner say! They all want the best for you!!!!

......and so do we!

-brino


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 16, 2021)

vtcnc said:


> Whoa! That’s serious! You ok?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



So far yes, I’m an edge case, all my vitals are completely normal so it’s precautionary.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 16, 2021)

brino said:


> Oh crap David!
> 
> Early diagnosis and treatment are essential.
> Do what your Doctors and your loving partner say! They all want the best for you!!!!
> ...



Will do, thanks @brino!
She delivered a lovely dinner for me already and took my truck home. 
I should be out tomorrow after they run some additional tests.


----------



## ttabbal (Feb 16, 2021)

Glad to hear you are doing well. Get feeling better soon.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 16, 2021)

In a wild a stroke of luck, they released me tonight because I’m doing everything right. 
Thanks for all the support fellas!


----------



## kdtop (Feb 17, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Well my printer arrived today but I’m in the bloody hospital diagnosed with pulmonary embolisms.
> Dang it!


Wishing you speedy recovery.  With covid-19, there has been far too many people getting PE's lately.  :-(


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 17, 2021)

kdtop said:


> Wishing you speedy recovery. With covid-19, there has been far too many people getting PE's lately. :-(



Thanks KD, I did not know that PEs were a COVID byproduct.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 17, 2021)

I managed to get the printer assembled today. Might even get a test print tonight


----------



## Weldingrod1 (Feb 17, 2021)

Yes, ABS printer filament is the same as ABS pipe. You can solvent cement them together if you want to. Fair warning: Don't trust its pressure containing abilities as much as moulded parts. It's good, but not AS good.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 17, 2021)

First print turned out great!





Enough goofy stuff, onto useful things!


----------



## kdtop (Feb 17, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> First print turned out great!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome!

It's a great print.  I see many cool things to come for you.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 17, 2021)

kdtop said:


> Awesome!
> 
> It's a great print.  I see many cool things to come for you.


Thanks mate!
First up is a set of AXA toolholder holders so they stop sliding around in the drawer!


----------



## Aaron_W (Feb 17, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> I managed to get the printer assembled today. Might even get a test print tonight



How were the instructions?

I got my Prusa back in September, but only just found the time to start putting it together last night. I'm very impressed with the assembly instructions and use book that it came with. Some of the best instructions I've run across it a long time.

I haven't seen instruction quality mentioned before, but these are what instructions should be like but rarely are.



DavidR8 said:


> First print turned out great!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You might want to check, but I think there is a law that you have to print a baby yoda.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 17, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> How were the instructions?
> 
> I got my Prusa back in September, but only just found the time to start putting it together last night. I'm very impressed with the assembly instructions and use book that it came with. Some of the best instructions I've run across it a long time.
> 
> ...


The instructions weren't too bad. The type is tiny but the pictures have the detail necessary to do the trick. Aside form the extrusions the parts are well labelled. If a person had little or no mechanical aptitude then it would be a bit of a struggle I think.

I was sorely tempted by the Prusa but it's a cool $1000 CDN plus tax vs $350 for the Ender. With my vast 3D printing experience (Bahahaha) I'm pretty happy.
My end goal is to print the pieces for a PrintNC CNC router. https://threedesign.store/


----------



## Aaron_W (Feb 17, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> The instructions weren't too bad. The type is tiny but the pictures have the detail necessary to do the trick. Aside form the extrusions the parts are well labelled. If a person had little or no mechanical aptitude then it would be a bit of a struggle I think.
> 
> I was sorely tempted by the Prusa but it's a cool $1000 CDN plus tax vs $350 for the Ender. With my vast 3D printing experience (Bahahaha) I'm pretty happy.
> My end goal is to print the pieces for a PrintNC CNC router. https://threedesign.store/



Yeah I figure most people here could figure it out, I was just curious since 3D printers are developing a market even with less technical people.

That CNC router is a pretty neat project.


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 18, 2021)

Just got a shipping notice for my Prusa Mk3S+ Not bad... they stated a 4 week lead time when I ordered and it was actually less than 3.

Now, to see how long it takes to get here via FedEx.

Ted


----------



## RandyWilson (Feb 21, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> How were the instructions?
> 
> I got my Prusa back in September, but only just found the time to start putting it together last night. I'm very impressed with the assembly instructions and use book that it came with. Some of the best instructions I've run across it a long time.
> 
> I haven't seen instruction quality mentioned before, but these are what instructions should be like but rarely are.




I can't speak directly for David's Ender 3. I read the Prusa manual when shopping.  I ended up with an Ender 5, and can tell you assembly is nothing like a Prusa. The Ender is not really a kit. It's as pre-assembled as it can be and still ship in a flat box.  Literally, the parts identification and assembly instructions are silkscreened right on top of the power supply. Bottom plane. Top plane (X and Y) back plane (Z axis), four vertical struts, and the few external doodads. All motors, belts, switches and whatnot are preinstalled. Assembly time was around 10 minutes. You spend more time leveling the bed first time than actually putting the thing together. No gummy bears needed.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 21, 2021)

The Ender 3 is more kit-like. 
The base is prebuilt. Z-axis and X-axis have to be assembled and lead screw and belt installed. The extruder part is pre-assembled. 
All in it took about an hour. I could have done it in less had I not misread the tiny pictures.


----------



## Aaron_W (Feb 21, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> The Ender 3 is more kit-like.
> The base is prebuilt. Z-axis and X-axis have to be assembled and lead screw and belt installed. The extruder part is pre-assembled.
> All in it took about an hour. I could have done it in less had I not misread the tiny pictures.



This is a big difference I've not seen mentioned before. People mention having to assemble their printer, but what you and Randy describe is considerably less than needs to be done with the Prusa kit. You can order the Prusa printers as a kit or preassembled, with a significant cost savings by ordering the kit. The kit is not only cheaper, but also just under the limit for US customs taxes.

The Prusa kit is a real kit, it comes as pieces not assembled components. if I had realized the differences before I started I would have taken some pictures along the way. Not difficult if you are used to building things, but definitely more complex than insert tab A into slot B. Almost nothing is assembled for you other than the motors. A person used to complex Lego kits would do fine but it could be a problem for somebody that struggles with prefab furniture. It took a couple hours for me to assemble mine working at a careful and leisurely pace.


----------



## RandyWilson (Feb 21, 2021)

Agreed, the Prusa is well within the capabilities of anyone that would be hanging out here. The Ender 5 is something most anyone can put together. After I was done, I went after the assembly with a machinist square, and found nothing needed tweaking. The belt tensions and guide rollers were all adjusted well enough. It's a good recommendation to someone with two left thumbs.

The Prusa you learn how it works as you put it together. The Ender you learn how it works when you start with the inevitable mods and upgrades.


----------



## RandyWilson (Feb 21, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> The Ender 3 is more kit-like.
> The base is prebuilt. Z-axis and X-axis have to be assembled and lead screw and belt installed. The extruder part is pre-assembled.
> All in it took about an hour. I could have done it in less had I not misread the tiny pictures.





 Did you pop the bottom cover off to see which controller board you have?


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 21, 2021)

I'll find out first hand tomorrow because FedEx says my Prusa kit will be delivered then. I'm not overly concerned about assembling the kit, but I am about finding the time to devote to working on it, since the 12 week old monster that now lives in my house demands 99% of my time! 

Ted


----------



## Aaron_W (Feb 21, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> I'll find out first hand tomorrow because FedEx says my Prusa kit will be delivered then. I'm not overly concerned about assembling the kit, but I am about finding the time to devote to working on it, since the 12 week old monster that now lives in my house demands 99% of my time!
> 
> Ted
> 
> View attachment 356403



Look at those ears! I am sure you will have that exact same view when you open your Gummi bears.   


I'm sure you won't have any trouble putting it together, I've just become accustomed to "kits" that in reality are just "some assembly required" and putting a few subassemblies together.

The Prusa printer kit is a legitimate use of the word kit, you get a decent size box filled with small boxes and baggies of parts. It is well organized with well thought out and detailed directions that even have CR codes for your phone with direct links to the internet if you need more details on any step. It was a pleasure to put it together, a few times a third hand or smaller fingers would have been nice, but that is always the case. They even include the screw driver and Allen wrenches you will need. I would suggest having a knife and a small adjustable wrench, handy for a few spots. There are a lot of small nuts and bolts, but they even include a baggie with some spares in case a few escape.


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 24, 2021)

Must be FedEx likes my printer more than I do since they have held it in Newark NJ for several days now and labeled the shipment date as "pending". It went from Europe to Indianapolis IN (FedEx major international hub), through customs, on to Newark NJ in just a couple of days. Now it sits in Newark for days which is only a couple hundred miles from me. 

I contacted Prusa and they said FedEx is blaming the weather in Memphis TN for the delay. This seems a little like BS to me since Memphis is hundreds of miles away and the FedEx resource which shows delays in areas states that Newark and my whole state are good with no delays....

Go figure.
Ted


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 24, 2021)

Freaking shipping delays are everywhere.  Looks like it is going to be almost 2 weeks for my new lathe to go from California to Wisconsin.

My brother ordered a starter at his work (he is an injector pump guru) with UPS next day air.  Didn't show up until 5 days later.  The lady at UPS told him that it was too cold for airplanes to fly.  Seriously.  I busted out laughing.


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 24, 2021)

Dave.... Glad to hear you recovered from PB.  Scary stuff.  
For some reason I am still not getting updates on threads that I am watching, so sorry I missed that about you.

Back on track.....  The Prusa kits are the most well organized and have the most concise set of instructions that I have ever seen.  Sort of like the McMaster website is the gold standard of how web filters should work.


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 24, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Dave.... Glad to hear you recovered from PB. Scary stuff.
> For some reason I am still not getting updates on threads that I am watching, so sorry I missed that about you.
> 
> Back on track..... The Prusa kits are the most well organized and have the most concise set of instructions that I have ever seen. Sort of like the McMaster website is the gold standard of how web filters should work.



Thanks 7, I’m feeling much better. I was also battling some kind of cold which didn’t help. 
I’m having fun with my printer, made a base for an Arduino board that will power my CNC plasma cutter. 
I’m also investigating printing movable type for use in letter press.


----------



## RandyWilson (Feb 24, 2021)

Somone asked about Octoprint earlier. I'm sitting at work, monitoring a 10 hour print of an Er32 collet rack.This one is the second attempt. The first try this monring didn't stick to the bed in one corner. My fault, didn't clean the bed all the way to the edges. I was able to see the issue and abort the print while sitting in the doctor's office.  When I stopped by the house afterward I was able to CLEAN and restart.


----------



## Technical Ted (Feb 24, 2021)

My son gave me one of his Raspberry Pis that he wasn't using (3) and I bought a Pi camera V2 and have been playing with it. I've got it wired into my router and the video is great watching it on other wired PCs. But, wireless absolutely sucks! So choppy it's not even worth watching and huge legacy. I've played with resolution, quality, framerate and to get it even close to real time the picture quality is terrible. I searched on-line and the saw a video that demonstrated the bandwidth limitations of wireless.

Anyone have any experience with this and have some suggestions? Wired it perfect, wireless is horrible! Am I missing a compression setting or something???

Thanks,
Ted


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 24, 2021)

RandyWilson said:


> Congrats, David. Welcome to the deepest rabbit hole on the planet. When you get the machine, pop the bottom cover off of the base and snap a picture of the motherboard. The 32 bit version should have V4.2.x screened on.


I looked last night and it's a 32 bit board.


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 24, 2021)

RandyWilson said:


> Somone asked about Octoprint earlier. I'm sitting at work, monitoring a 10 hour print of an Er32 collet rack.This one is the second attempt. The first try this monring didn't stick to the bed in one corner. My fault, didn't clean the bed all the way to the edges. I was able to see the issue and abort the print while sitting in the doctor's office.  When I stopped by the house afterward I was able to CLEAN and restart.
> 
> 
> View attachment 356939


Yeah, that was me. 
I am glad you brought that back up.  I need to look into it.


----------



## Just for fun (Feb 24, 2021)

David,  Glad your feeling better,  congrats on the new printer!


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 24, 2021)

Just for fun said:


> David,  Glad your feeling better,  congrats on the new printer!


Thanks! Feeling much better. Won't ever be normal again but I'm not sure I was to begin with


----------



## KevinM (Feb 24, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> My son gave me one of his Raspberry Pis that he wasn't using (3) and I bought a Pi camera V2 and have been playing with it. I've got it wired into my router and the video is great watching it on other wired PCs. But, wireless absolutely sucks! So choppy it's not even worth watching and huge legacy. I've played with resolution, quality, framerate and to get it even close to real time the picture quality is terrible. I searched on-line and the saw a video that demonstrated the bandwidth limitations of wireless.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with this and have some suggestions? Wired it perfect, wireless is horrible! Am I missing a compression setting or something???
> 
> ...


----------



## DavidR8 (Feb 28, 2021)

Designed and printed a base for a 5v relay that will control a plasma torch. 
Gotta say, having a 3D printer opens up a world of options for things like this.


----------



## 7milesup (Feb 28, 2021)

Yes it does.  Drew this up in Solidworks and just got done printing it.  Adapter for my small belt sander to my shop vac.


----------



## Technical Ted (Mar 5, 2021)

Well, after being held up because of "weather" for 15 days, I finally received my printer today! I hope I'll have it assembled in a week or two between my new GSD pup and another project I have going on next week.

It also looks like some nice weather is coming to western NY state next week, so I might just be outside enjoying it (and cleaning up)!

Ted


----------



## Technical Ted (Mar 13, 2021)

My new pup put up a lot of resistance, but I worked in enough time to get my printer assembled, tested, calibrated and operational! Starting a project for my son... a case for a Raspberry Pi Zero game controller he's making. Downloaded Fusion 360 file from Thingaverse and ran it through PrusaSlicer. Had no idea what I was doing in the slicer program, but changed some settings per the creator's instruction and created the G code. Seems to be working! I'll know in around another 3 hours.

Ted


----------



## 7milesup (Mar 13, 2021)

Awesome my friend.  That first layer(s) look good.  Usually, if the first layer or two go down good, it is smooth sailing after that.  After the first layer things like overhangs and supports can get a little persnickity at times, but the Prusa Slicer does a great job with those too.


----------



## Technical Ted (Mar 13, 2021)

I must say I am VERY impressed by the quality of this first functional part I made! No tweaking... I did set 3 parameters that the creator suggested when slicing, but that was it... Didn't really know what I was doing using the PrusaSlicer program.... just downloaded/installed it, clicked a few things, and out came some G code!!! 

Also, I am impressed by the kit. No missing parts, all parts were high quality, the instructions were FABULOUS!!! What a relief after all the other import stuff I've been dealing with lately!

I highly recommend this Prusa kit!

Ted


----------



## 7milesup (Mar 13, 2021)

You will find projects for that printer every week.  Heck, maybe every day.  
I am going to print up some quick change tool holder keepers.  I had them on my last lathe.  Snap over the back of the splash shield and the tool holder just slides on.  Lot of guys make them out of metal, which I could too, but what fun is that?!!


----------



## Aaron_W (Mar 13, 2021)

Technical Ted said:


> I must say I am VERY impressed by the quality of this first functional part I made! No tweaking... I did set 3 parameters that the creator suggested when slicing, but that was it... Didn't really know what I was doing using the PrusaSlicer program.... just downloaded/installed it, clicked a few things, and out came some G code!!!
> 
> Also, I am impressed by the kit. No missing parts, all parts were high quality, the instructions were FABULOUS!!! What a relief after all the other import stuff I've been dealing with lately!
> 
> ...



I told you the instructions were good.


----------



## Dabbler (Mar 13, 2021)

@Technical Ted One of my friends here has a Prusa, and hi prints polycarbonate with it... He like PC better than ABS.  His go-to is PETG.  Unsurprisingly all of them print quite well, with a little trouble of curling on larger ABS prints.

You are going to ave a lot of funiwth your new toy - er, essential workshop tool


----------



## DavidR8 (Mar 13, 2021)

Way to go @Technical Ted! 
I love having a printer, it’s made a few things that I would have to buy. 
Case for digital tack for the mill 






Holder for 5v relay.


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Mar 23, 2021)

LED Driver Enclosure....


----------



## Technical Ted (Mar 24, 2021)

I've printed several things now in PLA and PETG, including a case for my Raspberry Pi, a camera mount for its' camera, a different design Pi case for my son, and some toys for my grandson. This printer does an excellent job! Here's a picture of an Impossible Dovetail Puzzle I made. It's a copy of the Fusion 360 design I made and used the shaper to make out of aluminum and brass. It came out very well dimensionally... the only thing that was a little off was the Z (a few thousandths higher than the design). I can scale that in the Slicer. I had to give the mating surfaces 0.002" clearance (on one half only) so they would slide. I'm amazed at how well these turned out!

Ted


----------



## r-mm (Mar 27, 2021)

Hi All

Last year I bought an Ender 3 Pro for my Architectural Office.  https://creality3d.shop/collections...ality3d-ender-3-pro-high-precision-3d-printer

For obvious reasons the office has been closed and I'm just about to bring it there - but have been greatly enjoying it for my own personal use.  I do lots of auto restoration and printed brackets for an electric fan conversion.  I also printed some brackets for a Mill DRO install.   I upgraded to an all metal hot end and direct drive extruded both from Swiss Micro.

Things change very quickly in the 3DP world and I didn't do all that much research when I bought the Ender.  I'm interested in making functional parts and open to spending ~500 for something useful.  Curious to hear if anyone has advice?  

I like the upgrades from the 3Pro in this model - glass bed, dual Z axis, quieter operation - https://www.creality3dofficial.com/products/creality-cr-6-se-3d-printer

One hesitation is that I don't see many upgrade parts listed.  https://store.micro-swiss.com/collections/all-metal-hotend-kits


----------



## Technical Ted (Mar 28, 2021)

The only printer that I'm familiar with is the Prusa Mk3S+. Maybe others can chime in for decent printers in the $500 range.

The Prusa Mk3S+ kit will cost you just shy of $800 shipped. This thing does awesome work! No upgrades needed, but it is totally open source in case you want to update down the road after they come out with improved models.

If you're looking for a printer to make functional parts I don't see how you can go wrong with a Mk3. The parts used on their printers are made on the same printers... they have a farm with over 600 of them IIRC. 

Ted


----------



## r-mm (Mar 28, 2021)

I am familiar with the Prusa - a few schools I taught in had 'farms' of them and spoke highly.  Some of the younger people who work for me put me on to the Ender series which are bonkers inexpensive and still very well liked.

Does anyone know if the Prusa is in fact manufactured in Czechoslovakia ?  I realize its components come from varied sources like all electronics.


----------



## r-mm (Mar 28, 2021)

The Creality printers seem to be on perpetual 'sale' (harbor freight style).  Does Prusia do sales or free shipping ?


----------



## Technical Ted (Mar 28, 2021)

The company is located in Prague. I'm sure they source some parts, but everything is of very high quality. The assembly instructions are totally awesome! They give you a nice glossy book, but the on-line version is even better because you can zoom in on the pictures and also read comments from other members.

It looks like Prusa might do something for Black Friday, but that's all I've read about sale wise. They have a great following and are totally open source. I bit the bullet and went this route over the Creality line and other Chinese units and am very happy I did. I know that there are also a lot of happy Creality users out there as well. 

Ted


----------



## Technical Ted (Mar 28, 2021)

Here's one of the true tests for a 3D printer; the Benchy. I really don't see how it could have turned out much better...

Ted


----------



## Technical Ted (Mar 28, 2021)

Another thing to note about the Prusa printers is the availability and fair prices on spare parts. Check out their website. Looks like there's a pretty complete listing. And, most plastic parts are 3D printed in their farm and you can download the files for free and print your own replacements if needed.

I know we don't buy these thinking about needing spare/replacement parts down the road, but the only way we can assure that is to just look at them and never use them!

Ted


----------



## 7milesup (Mar 28, 2021)

Prusa very rarely does sales.  They are usually backed up anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks so the incentive for a sale is minimal.  As Technical Ted mentioned, they do occasional specials but it is only a couple of times a year.  I bought my Prusa 2.5 series a few years ago and got free shipping.
The new Prusa Mk3 is incredible with their 24 volt system, including the stepper motors, which makes it very quiet.  
Buying the Prusa kit will give you insight into its operation and as mentioned before, their instructions and online support are second to none.  I seriously looked at the Creality SLA printer but have since gotten access to a Formlabs SLA so no need to buy one of those at the moment. 
Buying a Prusa is like buying a Kurt vise.  You can buy cheaper vises, but do you want to?


----------



## r-mm (Mar 28, 2021)

Cool, I'm defintely leaning that way the more I read.  I also enjoy supporting small companies with cool founders and this seems like one of those.


----------



## 7milesup (Mar 28, 2021)

Ha!  I am not sure how small they are any more!  But, Josef Prusa does a great job with his company.  He is always innovating.  Now, one printer that I would not buy from him is the SLA printer.  There are many other printers that have the same technology and much bigger print volume for less money.


----------



## r-mm (Mar 29, 2021)

I was reading more on Prusa and saw this from Matterhackers which uses the Prusa architecture but substantially changes a few things.  For the same price as the assembled Prusa, I like what I see.  Matterhackers themselves are great, I've bough and liked their US Made filament in the past.   https://www.matterhackers.com/store/l/pulse-xe-nylonx-advanced-materials-3d-printer/sk/MFG0HF92


----------



## 7milesup (Mar 29, 2021)

r-mm said:


> I was reading more on Prusa and saw this from Matterhackers which uses the Prusa architecture but substantially changes a few things.  For the same price as the assembled Prusa, I like what I see.  Matterhackers themselves are great, I've bough and liked their US Made filament in the past.   https://www.matterhackers.com/store/l/pulse-xe-nylonx-advanced-materials-3d-printer/sk/MFG0HF92



Three thoughts.
1.)  It has a Bondtech extruder.  I know that there are millions in use out there, but I have never been a fan of them.  I prefer having the extruder motor right above the nozzle. 
2.)  The build plate is a little confusing to me.  So it comes with a Garolite bed, but does it come with a magnetic flex bed?  Having a removable flex bed is really nice when printing larger prints, otherwise they can be a bear sometimes to remove.
3.)  The nozzle looks like it has a plastic cover over it.  I would assume they are doing that for cooling, but to change nozzles you would need to remove that.  Not a big deal probably.

Their Nylon-X would probably need a hardened nozzle to print with it long term.


----------



## r-mm (Mar 31, 2021)

I called Matterhackers and was quite pleased to have a RealPerson answer the phone and talk to me for some time.  Yes the Garolite bed is 'stock'.  Of all the upgrades they offer the guy I spoke to advised the mag base is the most useful for my profile, you can pair that with any other material base they offer such as PEI steel.   It comes with a hardened steel nozzle, the Ruby is an upgrade.   The silicone cover on the nozzle looks familiar from the all metal hot end I installed on my Ender.  I did a good deal of reading on direct drive vs bowden extruders when I upgraded the Ender and the trade off mentioned - and made obvious when I installed it - was more weight on the gantry vs more direct drive path.  I am not particularly interested in flexible filaments TPU etc but the precision of retraction is a concern.  

I'm just now reading about even higher temp higher strength filaments such as PEEK and their variants but I believe those are truly out of reach without a substantially heated enclosure or machine at many mnultiples the price.  I am continuing to look for the best way to get strength from ABS/Polycarb/Nylon at or below $1,000


----------



## Technical Ted (Mar 31, 2021)

A lot of users build inexpensive enclosures for their Prusa Mk3 units. 









						How to build a simple, cheap enclosure for your 3D printer - Original Prusa 3D Printers
					

Maybe you have already seen some of those fancy enclosures people build for their printers. How do they work? And do they work? Today, we will shed some light on this matter! Plus, we are going to dive into patent wars...




					blog.prusaprinters.org
				




I will most likely make an enclosure, but might do my own design; not sure right now. But I know it would help with those higher heat materials.

Ted


----------



## r-mm (Mar 31, 2021)

Some may call this shallow and foolish but its important to me that my tools and machines _look_ good and make me proud to own them.  Those flimsy enclosures really bug me.  I have looked at some enclosed by design machines like such.  I am still reading about the "IDEX" extruders and not really sure that's something I need/want but I do like the design.  





__





						Flashforge Creator Pro 2 3D Printer Independent Dual Extruder Offers Higher Productivity and More Possibilities. | Flashforgeshop
					

Buy Flashforge Creator Pro 2 from the 3d printer manufacturer at the best price! Flashforge CP2 is one of the best IDEX 3d printers for 3d printing with budget. Print complex 3d models, support PLA, ABS, PVA, PETG filament, and high 3d printing speed.




					www.flashforgeshop.com


----------



## 7milesup (Mar 31, 2021)

Not at all shallow R-mm.  I too enjoy having my machines, etc look good.

With that being said, you could look at 80/20 for inspiration.  https://8020.net/
It is not cheap but it is some nice stuff to work with.  Maybe you are already familiar with it...


----------



## Technical Ted (May 24, 2021)

brino said:


> There was only one brand that I've totally given up on; Overture from Amazon was a complete failure!
> We tried tweaking all kinds of parameters, but never even had one successful print with it.
> Will never buy more of that.....
> 
> -brino


@brino 

I remembered this post of yours and thought I'd share a similar experience I had with Overture PLA that maybe could help you or someone else use it if you haven't already thrown it out 

I only had a problem with fast travel speed and high extrusion rates. I printed a bunch of kitchen trays for my wife that basically used the full area of the print bed. I used 3 different filaments; Hatchbox, Sunlu and Overture for a comparison. Using the Overture, I found I got nearly a perfect 1st layer, but the 2nd layer was so bad I had to stop the print... looked like grass was growing with blades of filament sticking up. 

So, I increased the heat up to 220C on the 2nd layer and beyond and slowed the travel speed down to 75% of the generic profile in PrusaSlicer. Problem solved.

I've since done some research and found that others have fixed the problem with Overture by decreasing the "Max Volumetric Speed" which essentially does the same thing I had done "manually". It limits the maximum filament flow rate. My Prusa Mk3S+ can not process enough of the required amount of filament required by the fast 2nd layer travel speed/extrusion rate with the Overture filament. The other brands were fine, but not the Overture. 

So, if you still have the Overture and the problem I had was similar to yours, you might want to try setting the max volumetric speed to 11 or 12 and see what happens. You can always tweak travel speed percentage and extruder temp during the print to find the threshold.

As an aside, the Hatchbox won the comparison. It was the only white that I could not see through the first layer. The others I could still see the grid pattern on the flex sheet. Not the Hatchbox. Very solid color. The most translucent was the Sunlu, which you could easily see light through the walls after printing the trays. But, they all printed well (Overture after the adjustment) and different colors may have different results. 

Ted


----------



## brino (May 24, 2021)

@Technical Ted

Hi Ted,

First, you have a very good memory!

Second, thanks for providing this possible work-around for that filament.
I don't think I threw it away (I'm too cheap!), but I also stocked up on filament that I know how to use.
I will try your advice when I get some free time to go back and try it again.

I really appreciate the input!

-brino


----------

