# Worn lathe bed to be reground or planar milled?



## 1silica (Apr 28, 2021)

I have a Litton brand table top lathe made for glassworking which has a handwheel operated tailstock that is driveshaft driven to be in sync with the headstock. Neither the bed or the tailstock ways are hardened. There is no oil lube system. The original factory ground finish on the bed was not scraped. I bought it used without being able to try it out. It turns out the tailstock sits about .060 lower than the headstock. I can't use it in this condition. It would cost me $15k to ship it to CA and have the factory refurbish it. I'm looking for less expensive alternatives. I found a local company that would planar mill the bed and the tailstock ways. Is this reasonable instead of regrinding? The planar mill finish is visually grooved and appears rougher than a ground surface. On the one hand this would hold lube better than a smooth ground finish. On the other hand given the roughness of both surfaces would they not wear much faster? Please share your opinions.  This issue is way above my pay grade.


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## Lo-Fi (Apr 28, 2021)

The question you've got to ask is this: is the tailstock height the fault of the bed or the tailstock? If it's constant down the length of the bed, it's probably not the bed. How did you take your measurements? Have you measured how parallel the taiksock spindle is with the headstock axis too?


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## markba633csi (Apr 28, 2021)

I'm thinking someone swapped parts to make one lathe out of two- 0.060 is way more than the factory would have shipped (I think) and more wear than seems reasonable- but then maybe these things wear out quickly?  
Probably it's going to be more practical to lower the headstock rather than raise the tail, but this gets into painstaking work regardless.
Are there any machine shops nearby that can advise you?  A local shop may be much cheaper than 15K
-Mark


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## Flyinfool (Apr 28, 2021)

Look closer at the areas where the tail stock actually makes contact with the bed. It almost looks like there may be some adjustability that is painted over.

If the tail stock is to low, machining it or the bed will only make it lower. You have something else out of whack. Are there any adjustments at the head to lower it?


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## 1silica (Apr 28, 2021)

Flyinfool said:


> Look closer at the areas where the tail stock actually makes contact with the bed. It almost looks like there may be some adjustability that is painted over.
> 
> If the tail stock is to low, machining it or the bed will only make it lower. You have something else out of whack. Are there any adjustments at the head to lower it?


There is no height adjustment for either stock. The set screws on the tailstock are to tighten up the single adjustable gib for front to back slop. Both stocks are the same casting. I've been told the factory first sets up the tailstock to run flat and parallel then grinds down the headstock to match. The final height above the bed is a nominal dimension and varies on every machine. Do you have any opinion about planar milling versus grinding?


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## Flyinfool (Apr 28, 2021)

Grinding will almost always get a better finish than milling. This is why almost all machines and tooling are ground on critical surfaces. The very best stuff is scraped on critical surfaces.


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## silence dogood (Apr 28, 2021)

Try contacting Litton Engineering Laboratories  ph 1-800-821-8866.


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## Rex Walters (Apr 28, 2021)

1silica said:


> the tailstock sits about .060 lower than the headstock


I'm not at all familiar with such a machine, but I agree that there is no way 0.060" is from wear. If you remove the tailstock from the bed, does it look like there were wear strips that rode on the ways? Perhaps they are worn to nothing or missing entirely?

I do disagree with the comment that lowering the headstock would be easier than raising the tailstock, though. If the tailstock is consistently 0.060" low anywhere along the length of the bed (not easy to measure) I think my first thought would be epoxying some phenolic or turcite/rulon of the desired thickness onto the tailstock ways to raise it. The stuff is easy to scrape (or mill if you don't need too much accuracy) for final fitment and you wouldn't need a lot of it.


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## projectnut (Apr 28, 2021)

I'm not sure grinding is what you need, but you might want to check with American Grinding & Machine Co. out of Chicago.   They can advise you as to what would be the best course of action to bring the headstock and tailstock to the same level.






						Welding & Fabrication - Chicago,  Illinois - American Grinding & Machining Company
					

American Grinding and Machine Company Specializes in Grinding, Welding, and Fabrication Services.




					www.americangrinding.com
				




They ground the bed and cross slide on my Sheldon MW-56-P back in 2001 when it was rebuilt by the previous owner.  At that time they did a "dust grinding" which only removed .002".  The cost at that time for a 56" bed and cross slide was $425.00.


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## Shootymacshootface (Apr 28, 2021)

projectnut said:


> I'm not sure grinding is what you need, but you might want to check with American Grinding & Machine Co. out of Chicago.   They can advise you as to what would be the best course of action to bring the headstock and tailstock to the same level.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the link! I am considering having that done to the bed of my Heavy 10.
 From what I have learned about tailstocks and bed wear, they always wear together, but the tailstock complicates things by the front wearing more than the back, so the quill dips down. On most popular lathes this can be addressed by regrinding and shimming the tailstock.  It doesn't look like such and easy fix on yours , but there is always a way!


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## john.k (Apr 28, 2021)

Seems the support/way surface is under the top bed .....would make it difficult to grind with any efficiency.....id agree with adjusting the tailstock slides with an addition .....whether turcite/rulon,or a bronze strip......id also expect the tall ,short bearing tailstock to quickly develop a forward tilt,exagerating apparent wear.....careful measurement needed......and be aware of using a dial stand on the chuck......easy to get incorrect results due to droop in the rods.


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## hwelecrepair (Apr 29, 2021)

Not to pile on (even though I am going to lol), I gotta agree with the points made about the amount of wear on the tailstock being too much, as if it was from a different machine.  I also have to agree that without knowing if the 60 thou is common along the entire bed, that shimming/turcite/building the tailstock back up is questionable.  I think that the $15k to rebuild the ways is possibly in the right ballpark, depending on its size and the accuracy of the scraping that is done to it.

Jon


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## Richard King 2 (Apr 29, 2021)

There is a super grind shop and rebuilder in Greendale, WI https://knifemaker.com/

Keith Rucker took his lathe bed.  Look at minute 7


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## Richard King 2 (Apr 29, 2021)

There is another company in Western WI too.   http://www.admachinerebuilding.com/

The 8'Camelback hanging on the first page used to ne mine.   He has planner mills and grinders.


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## whitmore (Apr 29, 2021)

1silica said:


> I have a Litton brand table top lathe made for glassworking which has a handwheel operated tailstock that is driveshaft driven to be in sync with the headstock. Neither the bed or the tailstock ways are hardened. There is no oil lube system. ... It turns out the tailstock sits about .060 lower than the headstock.



The bed isn't worn nor in need of being shipped out, a mismatch can be handled by shimming the
"tailstock" and some of the modern materials (turcite was mentioned) are excellent prospects for a
minor rebuild of sliding surfaces.

Basically, all you really need is a clean place and the right glue, to add a wear strip, or (maybe) 
a takeapart-and-shim on the glide surfaces that we can't see.   You WILL, however, want to
get a good tight-tolerance measurement of that '.060' number, with respect to the rotating axis
center, before removing the parts to be reworked.

Glass lathes don't take high stress, nor need lubricant, so scraping (which holds lubrication well)
isn't usual.


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## Richard King 2 (Apr 29, 2021)

After looking at the Photo's , I have a question.  How did you measure the tail-stock?   If you used a long small diameter rod, it may have drooped down and you got a false indicator reading.   There seems to be a gap there on purpose as does the Head.   I have a friend who is a Journeyman machinist and a good rebuilder who lives near Milwaukee and I bet he would be happy to help you figure it out.   Email me and I will forward it to him.  His name is Matt.   Oh and Matt has a friend named Matt too, he is head of maintenance at Black and Decker in Milwaukee .  They work for beer, I bet.   LOL    Richard@Handscraping.com


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## Richard King 2 (Apr 29, 2021)

I found this on the net... its a different brand, but it looks like the test can be made the same.


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## LucknowKen (May 1, 2021)

Richard King 2 said:


> I found this on the net... its a different brand, but it looks like the test can be made the same.


I bought my first Southbend lathe to make parts for the wife's Bethlehem Lab Lathe like the one above.


1silica said:


> I have a Litton brand table top lathe made for glassworking which has a handwheel operated tailstock that is driveshaft driven to be in sync with the headstock. Neither the bed or the tailstock ways are hardened. There is no oil lube system. The original factory ground finish on the bed was not scraped. I bought it used without being able to try it out. It turns out the tailstock sits about .060 lower than the headstock.


Hard to imagine .060 wear on a Litton. I will be watching this thread to see how you correct this situation.
Good luck!


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## tbone8 (Aug 17, 2021)

projectnut said:


> I'm not sure grinding is what you need, but you might want to check with American Grinding & Machine Co. out of Chicago.   They can advise you as to what would be the best course of action to bring the headstock and tailstock to the same level.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am currently looking for a shop to do my lathe ways and recently contacted American Grinding about the job. They replied that they do not do lathe beds any more which I thought was kinda odd???


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## projectnut (Aug 17, 2021)

tbone8 said:


> I am currently looking for a shop to do my lathe ways and recently contacted American Grinding about the job. They replied that they do not do lathe beds any more which I thought was kinda odd???


I'm surprised as well.  I must admit it's been 20 years since mine was done, but at the time there was a waiting list.  I wonder if the person doing the lathe beds has retired, or maybe they're just so backed up due to the pandemic that they just can't fit it in.  My bed was sent in by a shop in the repair business.  Maybe they're catering to the professionals, or just not doing it for individuals any longer.

I'd call back again and ask some particulars like:

1.  Is the service temporarily or permanently no longer available to individuals?

2.  Is the service still available to professional shops?   (if so you may be able to contact a shop in your area.  It's possible they may send it in for a small fee)

3.  If the service is no longer available to anyone can they recommend someone who still provides it?


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## tbone8 (Aug 17, 2021)

projectnut said:


> I'm surprised as well.  I must admit it's been 20 years since mine was done, but at the time there was a waiting list.  I wonder if the person doing the lathe beds has retired, or maybe they're just so backed up due to the pandemic that they just can't fit it in.  My bed was sent in by a shop in the repair business.  Maybe they're catering to the professionals, or just not doing it for individuals any longer.
> 
> I'd call back again and ask some particulars like:
> 
> ...


They did refer me to Schaffer grinding company in Ohio and they are out of my price range. I did email them back to ask when/why they stopped doing lathes but they never responded...


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## hwelecrepair (Aug 17, 2021)

I think one of the difficult parts about lathe rebuilds is the cost of the rebuild on alot of lathes is way more than the value of the lathe.  The cost to tear down, grind and scrape in an old lathe can be quite more than the value of the lathe.


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