# Need Advice On Securing Speaker Wire



## Anthony G

If this is posted in the wrong thread, I apologize as I wasn't sure where to put it. So, please move if need be. 

I'm in the process of updating my workspace. I painted the walls of my garage (concrete block) and I'm running all new electric service and runs. In the spring I may put down one of those epoxy floor systems. I'm also replacing my crappy old boombox stereo with a kicka** amplifier, preamplifier, and tuner along with some vintage kicka** thumping speakers. I built shelves for the speakers that mount in two corners of the garage. And because one of the speakers is about 50 feet away from where I'm putting the stereo (I put the stereo in a wall cabinet to protect it some), I had to buy some heavier speaker wire of 14 gauge. 

The problem I'm having is finding cable staples to secure the wire. It's flat speaker wire and measures about .282 across. I've been to 4 different stores looking for some type of low-voltage staple to secure the wire, but can't find anything appropriate. I've done a bunch of Google and Bing searching too and all I can seem to find is those 3/16" staples. I have some of those Gardner-Bender, low-voltage staples, the plastic ones with the single nail, that have the 3/16" slot, and the wire will not fit into the slot of the staple. I found some 1/4" staples, but they're for coax cable so they won't secure the flat wire, either. I know that .282 is larger than .250", but I was hoping that I might *possibly* be able to "force" the speaker wire into the slot and secure the staple. But, the staple has to have the "flat" type slot and not the kind with the radius used for securing round coax cable. You'd think they'd make 1/4" cable staples. Seems like a pretty nominal, common size to me. 

Does anyone know of any type of cable staple that would work? Or, any other method? I'm open to suggestions. I would like the job to be neat. I'd like the wire to be secured well. I'm running it along the header at the front of the garage and then make a 90 degree turn along the outer ceiling joist to get to the speaker and I'd like it to stay in place and be straight without dips, etc. I can't secure the wire to the new electric conduit with zip-ties as that's illegal. Believe me, I would if I could as it would make this whole job easier.


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## JimDawson

Try this

http://www.amazon.com/Arrow-Fastener-97-559-Insulated-PowerShot/dp/B002J4BXCE

And this

http://www.lowes.com/pd_104230-1781-MPS-2080_1z0wql5__?productId=3438434&pl=1


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## coolidge

If there is ever a situation to use wireless speakers this is it.


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## Tony Wells

I use a lot of P-clips for round wire, but since you are using flat (Romex??), cable staples would work. I believe the make a P-Clip for flat also.  You might search Mouser Electronics or Digikey.  If you want the 2 nail flat plastic clips:

http://www.b2bcableties.com/Cable-Tie-Manufacturer/DOUBLE-NAIL-FLAT-CABLE-CLIPS.htm

I do a fair amount of low voltage wiring, and use a variety of fastening methods. I'm sure you will find something suitable.


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## Anthony G

Tony Wells said:


> I use a lot of P-clips for round wire, but since you are using flat (Romex??), cable staples would work. I believe the make a P-Clip for flat also.  You might search Mouser Electronics or Digikey.  If you want the 2 nail flat plastic clips:



No, it's not Romex, it's flat speaker wire. You know, the 2 conductor flat speaker wire that's molded together. All of the 2 nail flat plastic clips I have found have too large of a slot for the size wire I have. The 1 nail flat plastic clips I have found are too small of a slot.

I was just on the RCA website and I found some "Speaker Wire Clips". These: http://www.rcaaudiovideo.com/connectivity/audio/?sku=AH12N

But the morons don't list the dimension of the slot. How dumb is that? And in order to contact them and ask them about the clips, I had to jump through about 10 different steps, setting up an account, going through their support, and then filling in a form just to ask them what the slot size is, which they probably won't even be able to tell me.

I was just on the PartsExpress website, too, and they don't have anything at all. You'd think that an audio/video company like that would have something to secure flat speaker wire.


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## Anthony G

coolidge said:


> If there is ever a situation to use wireless speakers this is it.



I don't think they make 100 watt wireless speakers that are capable of handling the 100 watts that my stereo puts out.


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## Anthony G

JimDawson said:


> Try this
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Arrow-Fastener-97-559-Insulated-PowerShot/dp/B002J4BXCE
> 
> And this
> 
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_104230-1781-MPS-2080_1z0wql5__?productId=3438434&pl=1



Not a bad idea on either count, but I'd have to buy the special staple gun in order to shoot either staple. I have a Arrow T50, but neither of those staples will work in it. I'm hoping to find something I can manually nail in before I have to resort buying another staple gun. Thanks for the suggestion, though. I'll keep it in mind in case it comes to that.


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## Tony Wells

Zip Cord then. One conductor ribbed for polarity marking. That link I put up has the 2 nail style along with U-Nails and Telephone wire clips.


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## coolidge

Probably not, 100 watts is not that much. Well 100 watts tube driven now that would be loud as hell. 100 watts tube driven can literally injure you.


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## Tony Wells

That's not how wireless speakers work anyway. They have their own power amp and receive only a low level signal via RF or IR.


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## Anthony G

coolidge said:


> Probably not, 100 watts is not that much. Well 100 watts tube driven now that would be loud as hell. 100 watts tube driven can literally injure you.



I meant 100 watts they way they used to measure it is. Like from a silver-faced amp or receiver from the 1970's. Not the digital stuff of today. 100 real watts thumps pretty well. I have a 150 watt Marantz amplifier and it nearly cracks my walls if I crank it.


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## Anthony G

Tony Wells said:


> Zip Cord then. One conductor ribbed for polarity marking. That link I put up has the 2 nail style along with U-Nails and Telephone wire clips.



On those "u-type" nails, they have dimensions "A & B" listed in mm. Do you know which dimension is the "A" and which is the "B"? And where do you find/buy them?


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## atunguyd

Have you considered hot glue (aka glue gun). I use this for most wires and it is a lot neater than cable clips. Plus when it comes time to remove it a hair dryer does the job without leaving behind any marks. 

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


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## Anthony G

atunguyd said:


> Have you considered hot glue (aka glue gun). I use this for most wires and it is a lot neater than cable clips. Plus when it comes time to remove it a hair dryer does the job without leaving behind any marks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk



To be honest, I really haven't considered that. It's a long run and some of the wood is pretty dirty from being 40 years old. I've used glue guns, but I'm just not sure how neat it would be. It would have to be a really small dab of glue because when I press the wire into it, I don't want it squeezing out the sides.

Anyway, tomorrow is another day. I'll do some more investigating then. Thanks to all for the suggestions and ideas. Keep them coming.


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## Tony Wells

The smaller of the two is always the width. I buy them from electrical wholesalers.

Lowes has these:

*Gardner Bender 2000-Count 1/2-in Plastic Insulated Cable Staples*
Item #: 102145 |  Model #: PS-750B


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## uncle harry

Anthony G said:


> If this is posted in the wrong thread, I apologize as I wasn't sure where to put it. So, please move if need be.
> 
> I'm in the process of updating my workspace. I painted the walls of my garage (concrete block) and I'm running all new electric service and runs. In the spring I may put down one of those epoxy floor systems. I'm also replacing my crappy old boombox stereo with a kicka** amplifier, preamplifier, and tuner along with some vintage kicka** thumping speakers. I built shelves for the speakers that mount in two corners of the garage. And because one of the speakers is about 50 feet away from where I'm putting the stereo (I put the stereo in a wall cabinet to protect it some), I had to buy some heavier speaker wire of 14 gauge.
> 
> The problem I'm having is finding cable staples to secure the wire. It's flat speaker wire and measures about .282 across. I've been to 4 different stores looking for some type of low-voltage staple to secure the wire, but can't find anything appropriate. I've done a bunch of Google and Bing searching too and all I can seem to find is those 3/16" staples. I have some of those Gardner-Bender, low-voltage staples, the plastic ones with the single nail, that have the 3/16" slot, and the wire will not fit into the slot of the staple. I found some 1/4" staples, but they're for coax cable so they won't secure the flat wire, either. I know that .282 is larger than .250", but I was hoping that I might *possibly* be able to "force" the speaker wire into the slot and secure the staple. But, the staple has to have the "flat" type slot and not the kind with the radius used for securing round coax cable. You'd think they'd make 1/4" cable staples. Seems like a pretty nominal, common size to me.
> 
> Does anyone know of any type of cable staple that would work? Or, any other method? I'm open to suggestions. I would like the job to be neat. I'd like the wire to be secured well. I'm running it along the header at the front of the garage and then make a 90 degree turn along the outer ceiling joist to get to the speaker and I'd like it to stay in place and be straight without dips, etc. I can't secure the wire to the new electric conduit with zip-ties as that's illegal. Believe me, I would if I could as it would make this whole job easier.



Check out McMaster Carr;  cable tie mounting pads. They are available with adhesive pads for mounting on smooth surfaces. Some are also available with mounting holes. They accept cable ties to mount any size cables. wire bundle harnesses or even tubing.
They can also be found @ electric supply outlets like Greybar or electronic outlets as has been mentioned above.


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## Anthony G

Tony Wells said:


> The smaller of the two is always the width. I buy them from electrical wholesalers.
> 
> Lowes has these:
> 
> *Gardner Bender 2000-Count 1/2-in Plastic Insulated Cable Staples*
> Item #: 102145 |  Model #: PS-750B



Thanks for clearing up the dimensions. I think the 1/2" plastic, 2 nail staples or clips are a little too large (width and depth) to adequately secure the wire. I've seen those around and passed on them. I really like the U-nails with the plastic insulation that were shown in the b2bcableties link you provided, but I have no idea where to get them. The place at the link you provided seems to be a manufacturer. 



uncle harry said:


> Check out McMaster Carr;  cable tie mounting pads. They are available with adhesive pads for mounting on smooth surfaces. Some are also available with mounting holes. They accept cable ties to mount any size cables. wire bundle harnesses or even tubing.
> They can also be found @ electric supply outlets like Greybar or electronic outlets as has been mentioned above.



I considered using the pads with the adhesive, but I'm uncertain how well they'll hold up since they'd be used in a detached garage, which is unheated most of the time. They would also have to be stuck to older wood and I'm not sure how good that would be. I'm going to look around at a couple more places today. If worse comes to worse, I've been thinking about opening up those 3/16" Gardner-Bender 1-nail plastic staples. I may be able to take my jigsaw, mount it in my vise upside down, and trim a blade width or so out of the slot. It may be a PITA, and I'd have to do around 30 or 40 of them, but it may work if I can't find something else.


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## ogberi

coolidge said:


> Probably not, 100 watts is not that much. Well 100 watts tube driven now that would be loud as hell. 100 watts tube driven can literally injure you.



Heh.  A few years ago I splurged and built a *very* nice tube amp for myself.  It's heavy, hot, and inefficient, unless you're using it as a space heater.  

I used a 12AX7 as the input tube, and a pair of EL84 tubes as the outputs, in self-inverting push-pull operation.  It makes a staggering 11 watts per channel.  
Piped through a pair of Pioneer speakers (18" woofer, 4" midrange, 1" tweeter per cabinet), it is loud enough to run you right out of the house.  My neighbor was amazed that 11 watts per channel could reach 'bleeding-from-every-orifice' volume levels.   Quite a bit of money tied up in the amp, but it was a thoroughly enjoyable project.  

Here's the shelf behind my desk at work.  I have some of my collection on there.  From left to right:
833A transmitting tube.  This one was abused when I bought it (for display). 
RS1026  - This tube has a graphite plate, and I've pushed it to bright orange-white hot, about 2kW output. (RF, not audio!)
4PR60B - This is a pulse-duty tube, .001% duty cycle.  20kV on the plate, 18A peak pulse current.  It's good for about 20kW for a *VERY* short time. Scary tube.
4-125A - Eimac power tetrode.  Used mainly in RF amplifiers, this one has a busted filament, so it's a display-only model. 
826 - an original RCA tube, it works, but is rather delicate.  




I used to have an old Russian GU10A tube.  Big water-cooled beast, 7.2v 80A filament.  That beast was good for 10kW continuous, and was absolutely *terrifying* to work with.  The tube was about 12" long, around 4" in diameter, and weighed better than 5 lbs.  Closest image is an import clone.  I think it's name is appropriate, because it will mess you up. The big copper cylinder is the anode (plate).  In reference, the 833A tube is about 4.5" in diameter, and 8" tall. 



Sorry to hijack, but I really like tube gear.


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## coolidge

ogberi said:


> Heh.  A few years ago I splurged and built a *very* nice tube amp for myself.  It's heavy, hot, and inefficient, unless you're using it as a space heater.
> 
> I used a 12AX7 as the input tube, and a pair of EL84 tubes as the outputs, in self-inverting push-pull operation.  It makes a staggering 11 watts per channel.
> Piped through a pair of Pioneer speakers (18" woofer, 4" midrange, 1" tweeter per cabinet), it is loud enough to run you right out of the house.  My neighbor was amazed that 11 watts per channel could reach 'bleeding-from-every-orifice' volume levels.   Quite a bit of money tied up in the amp, but it was a thoroughly enjoyable project.
> 
> Here's the shelf behind my desk at work.  I have some of my collection on there.  From left to right:
> 833A transmitting tube.  This one was abused when I bought it (for display).
> RS1026  - This tube has a graphite plate, and I've pushed it to bright orange-white hot, about 2kW output. (RF, not audio!)
> 4PR60B - This is a pulse-duty tube, .001% duty cycle.  20kV on the plate, 18A peak pulse current.  It's good for about 20kW for a *VERY* short time. Scary tube.
> 4-125A - Eimac power tetrode.  Used mainly in RF amplifiers, this one has a busted filament, so it's a display-only model.
> 826 - an original RCA tube, it works, but is rather delicate.
> 
> View attachment 114812
> 
> 
> I used to have an old Russian GU10A tube.  Big water-cooled beast, 7.2v 80A filament.  That beast was good for 10kW continuous, and was absolutely *terrifying* to work with.  The tube was about 12" long, around 4" in diameter, and weighed better than 5 lbs.  Closest image is an import clone.  I think it's name is appropriate, because it will mess you up. The big copper cylinder is the anode (plate).  In reference, the 833A tube is about 4.5" in diameter, and 8" tall.
> View attachment 114815
> 
> 
> Sorry to hijack, but I really like tube gear.



The last guitar amp I built had two Mercury Magnetics transformers, four 12AX7's and four EL34's and pumped 100 watts to a Mesa 4-12 cabinet.


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## Billh50

Another thought would be tiewraps that have the eyelet on the end. You can screw the tiewrap to whatever and then tie the wire in.


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## Dave Smith

are you talking about the old antenna style flat two wire cable with a web between the wires?----if so then you can just turn your stapler sideways and staple in between the two wires in the web---or just use small screws in that section whatever intervals needed---if  yours is not this type cable, then just switch to this style because it is inexpensive and easy to secure--I have lots of this style and it works very good for large speakers------Dave


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## chips&more

I would use T25 staples. And you would need the special gun for them. I have been using this kind of staple T18 & T25 to fasten wire for decades, works great. It takes some practice. You can easily staple the wire if you are not paying attention…Good Luck, Dave.


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## RJSakowski

For 30 or so clips, why don't you just make them?  It would be rather easy to do; get a piece of 3/8" x 5/8" Delrin or HDPE and mill a slot.  Drill some holes for the nails, and slice .  It's the HM way!

Bob


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## Grumpy Gator

_Is there a ceiling in the garage? If so run your wire up through it and over the rafters to where your speaker is than back down to the speaker. Probably save some length off that run too._
_****Just Saying********Gator************* _


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## mzayd3

If the slot is too wide, angle it to the wire just a bit to take up any slop.  I've done it in the past and it allowed me to keep the wire somewhat taught too.  It looked good in the end, nice an straight.


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## turnitupper

Drawing pins, sorry, Thumb Tacks through the middle of the cable between the conductors. If you are worried about shorts, split cable with sharp utility knife just where tacks penetrate. Or use small conduit.
John.


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## Anthony G

Well, I ended up using two different types of wire "clamps" or "staples"or whatever you want to call them. And that's only because I couldn't find anything exactly right for the 14 gauge wire size. I used 1/8" bell wire staples for the single run and I used 1/4" plastic, single-nail, coaxial clamps for the doubled-up run of wire. The 1/8" staples just didn't have enough barb left for good penetration into the wood on the doubled-up run of wire. I had to grind a little plastic off the bottom of each coax clamp to get it to hold the wire firmly enough. I made up a couple small jigs to run along the wood and help locate each clamp and staple so the spacing would be even. The wire is now in a nice straight line. Gardner Bender does make that Boss stapler that shoots those insulated staples. The 5/16" blue ones fit my wire nicely, but the depth of the insulator only accommodates a single run of wire and the stapler itself was over $36. I couldn't justify that. I ended up installing 104 staples and clamps, spaced about every 8 inches for the 100 feet of speaker wire. I couldn't really hold the darn staples, so I had to grasp every one with needle-nose pliers and then hammer them in place. Moving on to the next step of the workshop remodel. At least now I can get my lawnmowers, snow blowers, tiller, motorcycle and other crap back up against the wall and out of my way. Still need to do the electric runs and drops and I have two new garage doors waiting to be installed, too, that are in my way and taking up a lot of floor space. If you don't see me on here very much in the coming weeks, that's why. Thanks again for everyone's advice.


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