# The government slowdown/shutdown/debt crisis



## blacksmithden (Oct 8, 2013)

Hi guys. I'm also a moderator on one of the largest firearms sites in Canada. The tinfoil hat crew have really been cranking out "the stuff" about the US government and the debt crisis. They're trying to portray it as if the four horsemen of the apocalypse are about to ride down on the U.S. and wipe it's financial state right off the map. We only have one American member that I can think of, and I haven't seen him online in a while (hope he's ok). 
Anyway...since most of you here on T.H.M. are American folk, I'm really curious about getting your take on the whole situation. How are you guys feeling about the whole thing ?  I have a few friends and relatives down there, and yes, I'm a bit concerned, but I don't really know all the facts either. I try not to listen to the tinfoil hat crew too much. LOL.


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## Tony Wells (Oct 8, 2013)

Let's be very careful with this subject. Politics and religion are taboo, like most fora save those set up specifically to discuss such matters. I realize that this is a very hot topic at the moment, but civil discussion will be permitted. I do reserve the right to terminate this thread if it fails to remain civil. 

I am making an exception to our rules here because I realize the concern most of the members have. It is a significant time in the history of this country, and what the U.S. does will have a large impact on the entire world economy. No one here can solve this problem or series of problems, but perhaps a good discussion will provide an outlet to express your concerns. Again, I advise caution as the topic progresses.


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## blacksmithden (Oct 8, 2013)

Tony Wells said:


> Let's be very careful with this subject. Politics and religion are taboo, like most fora save those set up specifically to discuss such matters. I realize that this is a very hot topic at the moment, but civil discussion will be permitted. I do reserve the right to terminate this thread if it fails to remain civil.
> 
> I am making an exception to our rules here because I realize the concern most of the members have. It is a significant time in the history of this country, and what the U.S. does will have a large impact on the entire world economy. No one here can solve this problem or series of problems, but perhaps a good discussion will provide an outlet to express your concerns. Again, I advise caution as the topic progresses.



I absolutely agree Tony. I'm not really interested in who's at fault, or who's religion is what. What's got everyone concerned is the economic aspect of it. There's an old saying here in Canada. "When the U.S. economy catches a cold, Canada catches pneumonia." and it's very true. I'm not too worried about myself, as I have 4 licensed trades under my belt and almost 30 years experience in repairing anything and everything to do with machinery. The Alberta oil patch keeps me pretty busy. 

I'm more curious to hear where you guys who are actually living in the U.S. think things are going economically. A few of my relatives in the Seattle area have had a pretty rough go of it these past few years, but the truth be known, I think a fair chunk of it may have been self induced through some bad life decisions. Of course, the who thing got blamed on the housing bubble/crash.

How have you guys been finding employment and pay levels ? Easy to come by if you're willing to get out there and look, or are things pretty dry ? Up here, the news outlets would have us believe that everybody is desperate and the job market is in it's last death throws. Every time there's a lineup of job applicants at a McDonalds restaurant in a depressed area, the media are all over it like nothing else is happening in the world. We still have a labor shortage here in the Alberta oil patch, and the latest thing the media has been flaunting is hiring American workers. My thought is, if things were really as bad in the U.S. as the media would have us believe, we would already have seen an influx, and there's been virtually none. So, how are you guys feeling about the general, overall state of things economically ?


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## DMS (Oct 8, 2013)

Yup, we're all still here. For me personally, not much has changed. I know folks that work directly for the government, or for government contractors have had a harder time. Regardless, the world will not be ending this week (at least, I'm pretty sure).


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## Ray C (Oct 8, 2013)

I'm going to keep this very factual as not to stir-up any issues:

We've had government shutdowns before.  In all prior cases, the employees get paid so, the time off amounts to a free paid vacation.   They've already passed legislation that anyone who can't pay their bills because of a cashflow issue will not get penalties etc so it's not going to cause widespread cases of personal bankrupcy.  This time around, some of the bigger government groups are being ordered to work through the shutdown so they will not get another free vacation.

This shutdown is highly politicized and not as far reaching as prior shutdowns.  Most all "critical" operations are still going.  The news media is bending things out of proportion.

I live in the heart of the Annapolis Military Academy and work moments away from the NSA and Fort Meade.  All I can say is that traffic has been much smoother.


Ray


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## leadunderpressure (Oct 8, 2013)

The "shutdown" is largely being limited to things that will annoy voters than actually closing down critical infrastructures in the USA or actual cost saving measures.

The deadline to raise the debt limit comes next week and right now I don't see a path to a solution.

Personally, work has been slow but my checks don't bounce. This year will yield less money and higher expenses but I won't starve. Several people I know are in worse shape but I suspect there is some kind of job available for everyone but it may not be one you'd like.

My biggest expense increases this year have been paying higher healthcare rates. Some argue that this is nothing more than putting the screws to people since Corporate Healthcare companies can, however I don't see any cheaper options on the Healthcare Exchanges.

Something has to give. Just hanging on until things settle out.

Right now, I'd like to see the US government cut every federal budget item by 10% and then and only then raise the debt ceiling to keep things going for one year.

Doesn't look likely since no one wants to compromise.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## dennis98277 (Oct 8, 2013)

hi guys i hope everyone will get by this ok but this message is for my veteran brothers and sisters. I have heard through the grapevine and as of yesterday the va exausted all its surplus monies so if the shut down is not over buy the 15th then there will be no benifits paid out on the 1st. that goes for disabilities, education and any other claims that are out. I just want you all to be prepared for there to be n money in our accounts next month so if you are like me and that is my only income we need to start making arangments. i hope this is going to get worked out but i do not have that much faith in the system any more so just want my fellow brothers and sisters to be prepared for the worse.


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## Old Iron (Oct 8, 2013)

I hope what your saying isn't true theres a lot of vets out here that are going to get really Pi$$ off including me.

But if it happens we'll survive. I'll check into it Friday cause I've got to go for a eye screening and I know a Nam Vet thats works in the pay section.

Paul


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## sniggler (Oct 8, 2013)

Many years ago during a past goverment shut down I was in St. Augustine Fla and missed seeing the Spanish fort there because of that shut down, i am a history buff and i like to read about a place i am going to try to get a sense or the things that happened that happened there. at the time i was a clam digger with not a lot of money, i was ******, a national park? Many may not care but to close the statue of liberty to visitors on vacation who are spending there hard earned money with us is a bitter pill. i have health insurance and i need it for years i relied on the va i believe health insurance should be the right of every citizen, and further that all the talking heads on both side of the issue probably have health insurance. as someone who was self employed middle class for twenty years i know heath insurance was just a dream for me then. i think we are better than that and that we know no one one should need to worry about being treated when they need it and it is not charity it is a basic right


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## aforsman (Oct 8, 2013)

I work for a govt. contractor (aerospace), but we're still in operation for now.  I believe we have a few weeks worth of work in the queue before things start getting iffy for me.  Regardless, I'm willing to allow this thing to be a detriment to my wealth now if it will make things easier for my children and their children after them.  Speaking of children, we're in this mess because our so-called leaders have acted like children for quite a while now.  The bottom line is that we can't keep spending more than we take in forever and very few of our politicians are willing to stand up and acknowledge the obvious.  If this whole fiasco accomplishes nothing else, it might at least draw attention to the 800 lb gorilla in the room.


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## blacksmithden (Oct 9, 2013)

aforsman said:


> I work for a govt. contractor (aerospace), but we're still in operation for now.  I believe we have a few weeks worth of work in the queue before things start getting iffy for me.  Regardless, I'm willing to allow this thing to be a detriment to my wealth now if it will make things easier for my children and their children after them.  Speaking of children, we're in this mess because our so-called leaders have acted like children for quite a while now.  The bottom line is that we can't keep spending more than we take in forever and very few of our politicians are willing to stand up and acknowledge the obvious.  If this whole fiasco accomplishes nothing else, it might at least draw attention to the 800 lb gorilla in the room.



That makes a lot of sense aforsman. The one thing I have noticed is that everyone is talking about raising (or blocking the raising of) the debt ceiling....but nobody seems to be talking about fixing the reason the debt ceiling keeps needing to be raised in the first place. I'm guessing it's the same old story. No elected official seems to want to risk angering a ton of people by cutting funding to whatever programs they're on/interest them. 

One of the premiers of the province of Alberta where I live (Ralph Klein) made some pretty harsh cuts when he got elected. He managed to not only pay off Alberta's debt, but built us a 15 billion dollar surplus-rainy day fund. Yea, there were some hard times for some who were on the government payroll, but he did what needed to be done. There have been 2 premiers since then, and they've both turned out to be complete train wrecks. They burnt through the "Heritage Fund" in no time and we're back in debt now. People still refer to Ralph as "Kind Ralph" and the usual comments are that they wish he was still leading our province. Even though he slashed a ton of social programs, most people loved the guy for what he did. Maybe other politicians should be taking note of what he did and applying it today.

Is there really any talk in the U.S. government of ever even trying to balance the books, or is it all about whether or not to raise the debt ceiling to cover the over-spending ? Is there even talk of ever starting to pay off some of the debt, or is that just too far out of the realm of possibility ?


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## Gary Max (Oct 9, 2013)

Personally------------ I don't think you need to take sides----------- Those folks have forgotten why they are in Washington. Darn shame we can't fire them all and start over. :whiteflag:


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## GK1918 (Oct 9, 2013)

Gary Max said:


> Personally------------ I don't think you need to take sides----------- Those folks have forgotten why they are in Washington. Darn shame we can't fire them all and start over. :whiteflag:



Oh yes we can Gary just dont vote for them bums.  Doesnt anyone remember the teacher saying who knows, one of you maybe the president.  ya right

Just try it!!    The mixture;   have to be a rich kid, never played with toys, dont know what a screw driver is, takes stupid pills. 

Example how to go broke.  Anybody following RI news, going broke, because they gave some base ball player millions to form a company to mfg.
vidio games.  Next thing this company goes belly up.  RI tax pay'ers holding the bag.  
For this I'm so speechless I cant even type this.  So simply put, I need a new CNC and a plasma cam to make mousetraps and this state will
give me the money???????????
Oh ya this guy dont even live in RI.    WHERES the brains?   answer they aint got none.
so bad when this stuff comes on the news I flip the channel, cartoons are more educational.


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## Gary Max (Oct 9, 2013)

Heck it's been a "Jessie or James" choice for years------------- or----------------- lets vote against (so and so ). I can't remember the last time I felt like I was voting for the Right person.


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## aforsman (Oct 9, 2013)

We actually could throw them all out and start over in a sense. It's called term limits and it would change the whole game.  The catch is that they would have to vote it upon themselves, which will never happen for obvious reasons.

Sent from my SCH-L710 using Tapatalk now Free


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## leadunderpressure (Oct 9, 2013)

Term limits could be moused for an Article 5 convention. You'd need 3/4 of the states to do it though.


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## tripletap3 (Oct 9, 2013)

We were never meant to have career politicians but now we have some that have never done anything but. Once they are elected and they experience all the perks power and prestige and they will do anything to keep it. Our founding fathers warned this would happen but must have underestimated the power of "free stuff".


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## jgedde (Oct 10, 2013)

I think everyone in office in Washington right now, Repubuplican or Democrat, should be brought before a firing squad at dawn for letting or government come to this.  Problem is, the firing squad has been furloughed... :whistle:

John


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## zman (Oct 10, 2013)

All I know is I hope things come back up soon.  I left my driving job of 17 1/2 years, and due to medical reasons, have to quit the career as a whole. Am about to pursue VA disability,  and look into what help they have to help me start my own small engine repair business from home. So it looks like it's really bad timing on all of this. Not too worried just yet, as long as I keep in mind the gravity of the situation, I think I'll pull through.


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## Old Iron (Oct 10, 2013)

zman if you have a service connected disability and they give you to many problems you can get a lawyer on them now. It took me over 40 years to get my 100% and it was something they should have been paying me for all those years. 

I wish you all the luck in the world working with those clowns. And I hope they don't take to long.

Paul








QUOTE=zman;151014]All I know is I hope things come back up soon. I left my driving job of 17 1/2 years, and due to medical reasons, have to quit the career as a whole. Am about to pursue VA disability, and look into what help they have to help me start my own small engine repair business from home. So it looks like it's really bad timing on all of this. Not too worried just yet, as long as I keep in mind the gravity of the situation, I think I'll pull through.[/QUOTE]


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## blacksmithden (Oct 10, 2013)

Well...I get the impression that very body is pretty much holding their own, and you all deserve a pat on the back for it. If one was to believe the media here in Canada, you all should be completely out of work by now and be ready to start a revolution. It's good to know that people are actually looking at this objectively. Thanks for the replies guys.


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## fast freddie (Oct 11, 2013)

jgedde said:


> I think everyone in office in Washington right now, Repubuplican or Democrat, should be brought before a firing squad at dawn for letting or government come to this.  Problem is, the firing squad has been furloughed... :whistle:
> 
> John



yes but I think we could get volunteers for free for the firing squad


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## Gary Max (Oct 11, 2013)

I know I could make some time.


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## zman (Oct 11, 2013)

I appreciate it. I haven't even started yet, so I have no. idea at this point if there's going to be a fight. But then again, it seems that everything if a fight these days...


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## tripletap3 (Oct 11, 2013)

blacksmithden said:


> Well...I get the impression that very body is pretty much holding their own, and you all deserve a pat on the back for it. If one was to believe the media here in Canada, you all should be completely out of work by now and be ready to start a revolution. It's good to know that people are actually looking at this objectively. Thanks for the replies guys.



To directly answer your question off my soap box. 
This is no where as bad as the media makes it out to be or some of the politicians have tried to make it on the people. This is only a partial shutdown or as some call it  a "government slowdown". After allot of research the best info I can come up with is it has been so far a 17% cut in federal government spending. Sorry, I know that 17% might as well be 100% if your the one not getting paid. It was originally designed as a fail safe alarm or alert to let the people know something needs to be done. In a few days we will have to agree to increase on our credit/dept limit so the alarm is sounding. Those in control of the checkbook want to ignore it and others want to panic.  Its kind of like personally getting a overdraft notice from your bank or a call from your credit card company saying that your card is maxed out. It probably wouldn't be wise to just throw it in the trash without calling a family meeting.


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## OldMachinist (Oct 11, 2013)

"One day a florist went to a barber for a haircut. After the cut, he
 asked about his bill, and the barber replied, 'I cannot accept money
 from you, I'm doing community service this week.'
 The florist was pleased and left the shop.
 When the barber went to open his shop the next morning, there was a...
 'thank you' card and a dozen roses waiting for him at his door.
 Later, a cop comes in for a haircut, and when he tries to pay his bill,
 the barber again replied, 'I cannot accept money from you, I'm doing
 community service this week.' The cop was happy and left the shop.
 The next morning when the barber went to open up, there was a 'thank
 you' card and a dozen doughnuts waiting for him at his door.
 Then a Member of Congress came in for a haircut, and when he went to
 pay his bill, the barber again replied, 'I cannot accept money from
 you. I'm doing community service this week.' The Member of Congress
 was very happy and left the shop.
 The next morning, when the barber went to open up, there were a dozen
 Members of Congress lined up waiting for a free haircut.
 And that, my friends, illustrates the fundamental difference between
 the citizens of our country and the politicians who run it.
 If you don't forward this you have no sense of humor."


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