# Getting a New PM-1054 Going



## erikmannie (Jun 13, 2022)

I have had this milling machine for 9 days now, and next week I finally have a chance to get it going.

The first order of business was to carefully read through the online manual:



			https://www.precisionmatthews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PM-935T-949T-1054T-v3-2021-2-1.pdf
		


I also watched a few videos on YouTube to re-familiarize myself on how to run a Bridgeport clone.

I will document what I do to in order to help others in the future who are getting a new milling machine going.

I have 4 questions already:

(1) I think that when I got the machine I played with the speed control setting a little before any power was put to the machine. Later, I read the warnings not to adjust this unless the motor was running. I have almost certainly changed the speed control setting to something other than what it was when it was shipped. Now I am scared to start the machine, afraid that I might damage the gears.

(2) It is not clear to me how to lubricate the quill. One YouTube video showed a gentleman putting way oil at the top of the quill. As I recall, the manual recommended using grease. In this case, I should follow the manual, right?

(3) PM sent some parts that I don’t recognize where they go. I will post pictures tomorrow.

(4) PM shipped the drawbar loose. Even after reading the manual, I don’t know how to install the drawbar. It appears that it would slip entirely through (and fall on the vise) if I put it in there. Maybe the answer to this lies in question (3) above.


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## IamNotImportant (Jun 13, 2022)

erikmannie said:


> (1) I think that when I got the machine I played with the speed control setting a little before any power was put to the machine. Later, I read the warnings not to adjust this unless the motor was running. I have almost certainly changed the speed control setting to something other than what it was when it was shipped. Now I am scared to start the machine, afraid that I might damage the gears.


A quote from another board:

"You can turn the dial to increase the spindle speed on a vs machine without the spindle turning without problems. If you try to decrease the speed without the spindle turning, the dial will turn hard. If you keep turning, something will break, usually the pin on the end of the chain"


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## JRaut (Jun 13, 2022)

erikmannie said:


> (1) I think that when I got the machine I played with the speed control setting a little before any power was put to the machine. Later, I read the warnings not to adjust this unless the motor was running. I have almost certainly changed the speed control setting to something other than what it was when it was shipped. Now I am scared to start the machine, afraid that I might damage the gears.


Shouldn’t be a problem, just don’t make a habit out of it. You’d know it if you broke something.



erikmannie said:


> (2) It is not clear to me how to lubricate the quill. One YouTube video showed a gentleman putting way oil at the top of the quill. As I recall, the manual recommended using grease. In this case, I should follow the manual, right?


There are a bunch of different lubrication points on the head, and several different lubrication types.

The "way oil in the top of the quill" is intended to lubricate the drawbar. My Bridgeport has a tag on it that says to perform such an oiling every week or so I think. I just use a couple drops 30-weight non-detergent oil every so often.

The grease goes into one of the ports on the side of the head and (if I recall correctly) is for lubricating the back gears.

The quill itself is lubricated (for up/down movements) via an oil cup sitting on the front of the head. Again, that's for a Bridgeport, yours may differ. I use the same 30-wt oil for that as well, but you're probably best to use the oil the manual recommends.



erikmannie said:


> (4) PM shipped the drawbar loose. Even after reading the manual, I don’t know how to install the drawbar. It appears that it would slip entirely through (and fall on the vise) if I put it in there. Maybe the answer to this lies in question (3) above.


The drawbar bears on a shoulder near the top of the spindle. Should be a washer and maybe an O-ring as well (?) that it sits on. Otherwise, you just drop it down into the hole, nothing special.


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## erikmannie (Jun 13, 2022)

The drawbar just dropped right in. It could not have been easier than that. I did have to clean off the protective coating of grease, however.

These are some of the items that I do not know exactly what they are. There are others that look the same that would been redundant to photograph. They are all marked X, Y and Z. It is pretty clear to me that these are parts that PM took off of the stock milling machine in order to install the 3 factory installed power feeds.


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## erikmannie (Jun 13, 2022)

Here is a picture of the top of the head that the drawbar dropped into:


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## Just for fun (Jun 13, 2022)

erikmannie said:


> The drawbar just dropped right in. It could not have been easier than that. I did have to clean off the protective coating of grease, however.
> 
> These are some of the items that I do not know exactly what they are. There are others that look the same that would been redundant to photograph. They are all marked X, Y and Z. It is pretty clear to me that these are parts that PM took off of the stock milling machine in order to install the 3 factory installed power feeds.
> 
> View attachment 409986


You are right.  Those are the parts that were removed when they installed the power feeds.


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## erikmannie (Jun 13, 2022)

Here are some self-explanatory pictures of the action.



















…and green/yellow is ground which is green on the SOOW.


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## erikmannie (Jun 13, 2022)

A few more photos:


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## sr71xjet (Jun 14, 2022)

3ph Motor?


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## erikmannie (Jun 14, 2022)

sr71xjet said:


> 3ph Motor?


Yes.


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## sr71xjet (Jun 14, 2022)

You will like this Mill.  I love mine.  I have the same one. I got mine in January.


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## erikmannie (Jun 15, 2022)

Success! I think everything on this machine is A-okay. I have yet to test the DRO and power feeds.

I was able to finish the 2 plugs and 1 receptacle before I went to work yesterday.

First thing today, I called my Dad and asked him to bring over his Fluke. I have one, but he is still showing me how to test these things.

We had continuity on ground; this was between the terminal on the end of my power cord (plugged in at the running RPC, not plugged in at the milling machine) and a nut on the outside of the RPC.

For *two* distinct pairs of live terminals (placing the probes inside terminals of the receptacle), we had a consistent 120.1V. However, if you probed one terminal, it would start to climb to 120V, and then the meter said OL (overload). We checked that curiosity several times.

My Dad’s idea was to get into all of my plugs and receptacles and check my wiring, but I remembered that *one leg* was manufactured.

We checked all of the above again and again, and the phenomenon was 100% consistent; that is, one of the terminals would show OL. I told him that this *may be* a function of the one terminal being the wild leg. Once I said that, he said that was probably the case.


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## sr71xjet (Jun 15, 2022)

What RPC are you using.  Im in the market for one.


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## erikmannie (Jun 15, 2022)

Before testing power on the machine, I very carefully checked that nothing was binding on the machine. I lubed the zerk for the back gears, topped off the way oil in the one-shot lube reservoir, put Velocite No. 10 in the spindle oil port. I will confess that I did not lube the quill. I am still deciding exactly what lube to use.

Long story short, I turned it on and everything was perfect. I learned that the gears may need to be adjusted a little before going from the back gears in to HI. I compare this to having to jog the spindle before engaging the speed (Low, Medium or High) on an engine lathe.


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## erikmannie (Jun 15, 2022)

American Rotary AMP-10. It is on wheels. It is painfully expensive, but it is made in the USA and it is very quiet! I needed my RPC to be as quiet as possible because my neighbor is a crybaby.

The customer service from American Rotary is *stellar*. The one in the photo has three bays. I have a 20A circuit for my milling machine and a 30A circuit for my engine lathe. There is another circuit in there that I don’t think I will ever need.







I like the fact that it is on wheels because I am a little OCD, and I need to be able to sweep and blow under there.


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## sr71xjet (Jun 15, 2022)

Kind of looking at the same one but the 20amp and Tier 3


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## erikmannie (Jun 15, 2022)

sr71xjet said:


> Kind of looking at the same one but the 20amp and Tier 3


Your only reservation should be if the cost would break you.

The customer service alone should be a huge consideration. If you can believe it, I was able to speak to an extremely knowledgeable tech person very late at night. You won’t find that at very many companies.

I tried unsuccessfully to get away with a 20A breaker for the engine lathe, and I had to increase that to a 30A. My electrical knowledge is about a 2 on a scale of one to 10. They made this upgrade go 100% smoothly.


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## sr71xjet (Jun 15, 2022)

erikmannie said:


> Your only reservation should be if the cost would break you.
> 
> The customer service alone should be a huge consideration. If you can believe it, I was able to speak to an extremely knowledgeable tech person very late at night. You won’t find that at very many companies.


Boy isnt that the truth...........


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## erikmannie (Jun 15, 2022)

Speaking of stellar customer service, I had one question about the quill lock on the knee mill. I have always been able to phone up Precision Matthews and be on the phone with a tech guy in less than 2 minutes.

The problem was that I could not engage the quill lock on this new machine.

The PM tech guy explained that one (1) backs off the screw in order to be able to (2) pull out the quill lock handle, and (3) make adjustments to your liking. This is to be compared to the levers for locking an axis on a milling machine. You know how they have those levers that you (1) pull out, (2) swing around, (3) push back in, and (4) rotate clockwise in order to lock an axis?

With levers like this, there is often an issue with some casting, nut, saddle or milling machine table preventing being able to rotate the lever 360° or more.


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## sr71xjet (Jun 15, 2022)

erikmannie said:


> Speaking of stellar customer service, I had one question about the quill lock on the knee mill. I have always been able to phone up Precision Matthews and be on the phone with a tech guy in less than 2 minutes.
> 
> The problem was that I could not engage the quill lock on this new machine.
> 
> The PM tech guy explained that one (1) backs off the screw in order to be able to (2) pull out the quill lock handle, and (3) make adjustments to your liking. This is to be compared to the levers for locking an axis on a milling machine. You know how they have those levers that you (1) pull out, (2) swing around, (3) push back in, and (4) rotate clockwise in order to lock an axis?


Yes.  Adjustable friction levers......


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## erikmannie (Jun 15, 2022)

Now I need to mount, plug in and test the DRO and power feeds.

I also need to tram the head and indicate the vise.


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## sr71xjet (Jun 15, 2022)

erikmannie said:


> Now I need to mount, plug in and test the DRO and power feeds.
> 
> I also need to tram the head and indicate the vise.


Ahhhh.........the fun part.  My Kurt DX6 came in last week and got it all indicated.   It is very nice


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## erikmannie (Jun 15, 2022)

sr71xjet said:


> Ahhhh.........the fun part.  My Kurt DX6 came in last week and got it all indicated.   It is very nice


How long did the trammeling job take?


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

I had a rough go of adjusting the nod for the first time. The fault lies with me.

Long story short, I loosened the bolts in the photo below at 7 and 10 o’clock (this is correct). Although I had carefully read the manual Sunday night, I mistakenly assumed that the *nod adjustment bolt* was the bolt at 3 o’clock (this is where the story gets ugly!).







So I set about loosening & tightening this bolt at 3 o’clock. Of course, the head did not go up or down. I did notice that when I loosened the bolt to a certain point, it became so loose that it wouldn’t be adjusting anything.

I mistakenly assumed that the solution to my problem was to have a strong man lift the head while tightening the bolt (at 3 o’clock).

Continued below…


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

Continued:

I brought my son out to help me. I pushed up against the head while he tightened that bolt. He was really straining to tighten it until he could no longer do so.

At that point, I called Precision Matthews. I spoke to Charlie, and he was very helpful. He said that he would go out & look in the shop in order to determine what the problem was. My idea was that I had stripped the brass worm gear.

While I was waiting for Charlie’s call back, I happened to see *the correct nod adjustment bolt on top of the machine*. I immediately flashed back to the machining classes that I took, and realized that I have been tightening the wrong bolt.

For all my son’s tightening the bolt at 3 o’clock (at my misdirection), he ruined the split washer and deformed the head of the bolt.

This was an easy fix, of course. I had a 1/2” split washer on hand. I used a hand file to flatten the high points on the deformed bolt head.

Of course, once I realized what bolt to use for the nod adjustment, the task went very easily from there.

As soon as I realized my error, I called PM and told them that I had made a terrible rookie mistake, and thanked them for their expedient technical help.

Moral of the story: even if you have taken machining classes and read the manual, *at the first sign of trouble* go right back to the manual.


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

BTW I took a shortcut and trammed the head with a machinist square and a 1-2-3 block; I got a very good result! My first project is milling & beveling a plate welding coupon, and I have no doubt that the trammeling job that I did is adequate for this job.

All I have to do now is indicate the vise, and then I will be making chips!

I will also be buying some matching touch up paint because, between the rigging crew and myself, we scratched up the paint job a  bit. The rigging crew was using a pry bar on the bottom of the machine, and my hacking away with the socket wrench *on the wrong nod adjustment bolt* put quite a few cosmetic scars on the machine.

A guy I work with at my current job used to manage a paint store. He said that I could remove a panel from the milling machine, and go down there and buy a quart or a gallon of (oil based?) matching paint to make ‘er look new again.


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## sr71xjet (Jun 17, 2022)

erikmannie said:


> How long did the trammeling job take?


not long at all.  Just watch Abom79(Adam) or Keith Rucker(Vintage machinery) on youtube and you will be fine.


erikmannie said:


> How long did the trammeling job take?


20 min maybe


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

Here is my setup for indicating this 8” vise. It took me longer than expected (maybe an hour!) to get it to .0003” (“Three tenths”) over 7 1/2”.











I finally get to make chips! I have been waiting for a long time to get to this point. I put a deposit on this knee mill 3 1/2 months ago, and I’ve had the machine here for 16 days!


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## sr71xjet (Jun 17, 2022)

I did the same thing in January for my lathe.....hopefully the end of July they are saying.


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

sr71xjet said:


> I did the same thing in January for my lathe.....hopefully the end of July they are saying.


I think everyone here would agree that your lathe will be worth the wait!


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

I got off to a rough start. I selected a 1” R8 collet (my 1” endmill holder is on back order) and a 1” shank, 1” diameter solid carbide 4 flute stubby endmill.

Long story short, I thought the x-axis power feed was in the *lowest* speed possible, but it was turned up to the *highest* speed possible. As you can imagine, this caused a crash. The weak link in the chain was the R8 1” collet. Even though it was brand new, it is now split/cracked and broken (see photos).


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

I switched to a 7/8” R8 collet and a 7/8” shank, 7/8” diameter solid carbide endmill. I was still in back gears, but I turned the RPM down to 220 RPM. I used very slow power feeds. Using the quill (and thus with no access to the DRO), my DOCs increased from .020” to .050” in proportion to my confidence in the setup. Here is a photo of that:






This worked nicely, but I was not happy with the finish.


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## Ischgl99 (Jun 17, 2022)

I've paid the stupid tax several times with my equipment too.  If you don't make the same mistake twice, it is a good learning experience. 

That vise is huge, my 4" vise would probably fit between the jaws lol


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## rabler (Jun 17, 2022)

I'd be turning that end mill at least 600-800 rpm for carbide


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

Now I am using the same cutter, but I increased the RPMs to 470, and I am using the z-axis (i.e. the knee) with the DRO so I can really dial down the DOC, looking for a better finish.

We note that this mild steel plate is 1” thick, but my cutter is only 7/8” diameter.


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

rabler said:


> I'd be turning that end mill at least 600-800 rpm for carbide


I was going to ask!


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## Ischgl99 (Jun 17, 2022)

erikmannie said:


> I was going to ask!


Little Machine Shop has a speed and feed calculator that will help get you in the right range. You might need to adjust based on what your machine and cutters can do, but I've found it to be fairly accurate.









						Speeds & Feeds
					

The premier source of tooling, parts, and accessories for bench top machinists.




					littlemachineshop.com


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## rabler (Jun 17, 2022)

RPM = SFPM * 12 / pi * diameter.  I use SFPM * 4/diameter as it is easier to figure in my head, and just looking for ballpark.
I use 100 SFPM for HSS in mild steel, 200 SFPM for solid carbide in mild steel, and 300 SFPM for carbide inserts in mild steel, as quick starting points.  Double that for aluminum.    Again, quick starting points, there are detailed tables and apps, and the recommendation of the cutter manufacturer.  Although many of those are based on removing the most metal in the least time (production), not hobby use and longest cutter life.  For a solid carbide cutter in mild steel, I just use 800rpm/diameter.  Again, quick starting points.


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

rabler said:


> RPM = SFPM * 12 / pi * diameter.  I use SFPM * 4/diameter as it is easier to figure in my head, and just looking for ballpark.
> I use 100 SFPM for HSS in mild steel, 200 SFPM for solid carbide in mild steel, and 300 SFPM for carbide inserts in mild steel, as quick starting points.  Double that for aluminum.    Again, quick starting points, there are detailed tables and apps, and the recommendation of the cutter manufacturer.  Although many of those are based on removing the most metal in the least time (production), not hobby use and longest cutter life.  For a solid carbide cutter in mild steel, I just use 800rpm/diameter.


I knew to use a much higher RPM for carbide inserts on an engine lathe. I just learned here and now to use a higher RPM for solid carbide cutters on a milling machine.


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

I am still working on the same surface that I just milled flat. Now I am using a 3/4” shank, 82° included angle solid carbide cutter in an R8 collet at 700 RPM (high gear). The DOC in the photo is .120”.


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

Now I just noticed that I am cutting this angle at 49°, while I wanted 41°. Something to think about while I am at work today.







I think I figured it out. I need to *lay the 1”plate down on parallels*, and cut from the top.


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

It looks like I am going to need to get rid of the chips while it is cutting:


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## erikmannie (Jun 17, 2022)

Here is the surface finish after making three .010” DOC passes with the 7/8”diameter endmill at 700 RPM on 1” width plate. I didn’t have time for any spring passes.

I am not satisfied with this. If I had time, I would have dialed a .0002” to .0004” deeper DOC & done multiple spring passes at a really high RPM (about 1000) with the feed as low as the power feed could go.


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## Just for fun (Jun 17, 2022)

After your crash, you should check the tram again.  More than likely the crash has thrown it off again.  At least it is worth checking again just to be on the safe side.

Tim


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## Just for fun (Jun 17, 2022)

Other than the crash.  It's looking good.  Nice to see you are making chips.


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## erikmannie (Jun 19, 2022)

Here are some pictures from today’s fun. My RPM is 1200. Max DOC is .130”. Slow power feed.

This is a 2” indexable shell mill by Glacern. I am putting both of the plates in there together so that they have equal dimensions.


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## erikmannie (Jun 19, 2022)

I turned the RPM down to 800 RPM for this face milling operation because the chips were coming out blue at 1200 RPM. The DOC is .125”.


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## erikmannie (Jun 19, 2022)

I turned the RPM down to 800 RPM for this face milling operation because the chips were coming out blue at 1200 RPM. The DOC is .125”.


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## erikmannie (Jun 19, 2022)

Here we are bringing the plates to the same thickness, hopefully with an acceptable finish. I added dark screw cutting oil because the chips were half blue and half straw-colored.

This DOC is .035”. The RPM is 800. The y-axis powerfeed is almost as slow as you can set it.


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## erikmannie (Jun 19, 2022)

One huge problem that I’m having with the milling machine is that it is vibrating. I had to hurry the set up for the mounting feet because the rigging crew was here, and their hourly rate is very expensive. 

As it is now, there is 3000 pounds sitting on four 1/2” Grade 8 washers. Under each washer is a nut which is used for leveling.

I can see that I am going to need to bought the knee mill to the concrete.

This is what I am blaming for the chatter. With small cuts, it doesn’t vibrate. In the cut below (.035” face milling), vibration is noticeable.


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## erikmannie (Jun 19, 2022)

Here is the surface finish that I am getting, trying as hard as I can. No matter how you look at it, this is not good enough.


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## BGHansen (Jun 19, 2022)

I'm sure someone with chime in with some suggestions to improve the finish.  I'd be guessing.  

Bruce


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## davidpbest (Jun 19, 2022)

erikmannie said:


> Here is the surface finish that I am getting, trying as hard as I can. No matter how you look at it, this is not good enough.


Please identify your specific face mill and the inserts you are using.  Without this info, it‘s hard to know how to help. If you’re using the Glacern FM45 with the General Purpose Kolroy inserts for steel (SECA34-PC3500), l would be running that cutter at 550 RPM on 1018 steel with a Feed rate of about 12 IPM.  It looks to me like you’re recutting some chips, so set up some air to blow them off the material if surface finish is your goal and speed up your feed rates.  Where is the vibration?  Head? Ram? Whole machine?  Do you have the knee and ram dovetail locks engaged?  If your mill is rocking on it’s feet, that can telegraph through to your surface finish.   Did you re-tram your mill after the crash?


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## erikmannie (Jun 19, 2022)

I will upload the details after I return home from the Father’s Day party.


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## erikmannie (Jun 19, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Please identify your specific face mill and the inserts you are using.  Without this info, it‘s hard to know how to help. If you’re using the Glacern FM45 with the General Purpose Kolroy inserts for steel (SECA34-PC3500), l would be running that cutter at 550 RPM on 1018 steel with a Feed rate of about 12 IPM.  It looks to me like you’re recutting some chips, so set up some air to blow them off the material if surface finish is your goal and speed up your feed rates.  Where is the vibration?  Head? Ram? Whole machine?  Do you have the knee and ram dovetail locks engaged?  If your mill is rocking on it’s feet, that can telegraph through to your surface finish.   Did you re-tram your mill after the crash?


Thank you for helping, David. The facing mill is indeed the Glacern 2” integral R8 shank. See below for a picture of the inserts that I’m using.

I have *not* rechecked the tram since the crash. Let’s also note that the tram that I did do only used a machinist square and 1-2-3 blocks.

The x- and z-axes, quill, tilt, nod, ram and turret are all locked for this y-axis power feed face milling operation.

I am unable to use my body to rock the milling machine back and forth (at all!) while it is turned off, but the whole machine will vibrate in proportion to the DOC, starting at about .020”. It seems clear to me that I’m going to need to bolt it to the concrete.

Can I even make tiny DOCs with these inserts? Sometimes I only want to cut .001” or so.

At some point, I will need to make notes of the feed rates (in IPM) on my power feeds. You understand that these power feed units have potentiometers that go from 0 to 9.


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## JRaut (Jun 19, 2022)

A quick check of Kennametal's website suggests you're going WAYYYY too slow in both speed and feed for those inserts. Unless I'm running the numbers wrong...

Kennametal says that a starting point should be:

 - 1450 - 1780SFM == ~2800-3400 RPM for a 2" diameter cutter
 - 0.003 - 0.021 inches per tooth == 36 - 250 inches per minute for a 4-insert cutter at 3000 RPM

That's probably near the top of your RPM range, and about as fast as you can possibly crank the handle.

Scary business.....


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## davidpbest (Jun 19, 2022)

JRaut said:


> A quick check of Kennametal's website suggests you're going WAYYYY too slow in both speed and feed for those inserts. Unless I'm running the numbers wrong...
> 
> Kennametal says that a starting point should be:
> 
> ...


@JRaut post your link reference please.  I'm looking at the following (Speeds tab), and don't see recommendations for his KC510M grade with steel, but the closest thing to it, has SFM's more in the 500-900 range.  I have a face mill similar to his, and there's no way I'd run it at the speed you mention on steel - aluminum yes, but not steel.






						Chamfer Mills - Indexable Inserts • KISBR-45
					

Inserts for Chamfer Mill • SEHW - 1556253




					www.kennametal.com


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## Skippy (Jun 19, 2022)

I believe a machinist square doesn’t get the job done when tramming.


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## JRaut (Jun 19, 2022)

Ah, I was looking at grade KCPK30 for group P1 steel.

You're right @davidpbest, they don't have any recommendations for surface speeds in steel. Wonder why that is.

Also -- agree with @davidpbest that you're probably re-cutting chips. I suspect that speeding up your feed rate will eliminate a lot of the perceived vibration issues.


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## Just for fun (Jun 20, 2022)

The first thing I would recommend is to tram your mill with a dial indicator.  I bet you will find that it off. 

Something else to consider.  From Kennametal's web site it looks like KC510M insert is primarily use is for aluminum.   It also says it can be used for steel and hardened steel.

  So, why not just say it is good for general purpose?


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## erikmannie (Jun 20, 2022)

Here is the surface finish that I got before I was able to deploy your collective advice:

The last DOC was .020”. The RPMs were 800.


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## erikmannie (Jun 20, 2022)

My cutter traveled 10” in 4 minutes, so is the feed speed 150 IPM?

For this project, I obviously don’t need a nice surface finish, but in general I would like to get a better finish than in the photos.

Now that it is too late to work in the shop, I can read and think about what changes I will try.

When I was face milling at a .020” DOC, I could not detect any vibration in the knee mill. Earlier, when I was taking off .130”, there was a little rock ‘n’ roll.

It will be interesting to see what the dial indicator shows for a head trammed with a machinist square!

I don’t have an air compressor. I really don’t feel like I have money or room for one, either. I would also guess that canned air would be uneconomical.


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## xr650rRider (Jun 20, 2022)

inches per min.  So 10" in 4 mins would be 2.5 IPM.


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## davidpbest (Jun 20, 2022)

10" travel in 4 minutes is a feed rate of 2.5 IPM.  If I were running my 2" 4-insert face mill, it would be feeding at 10-14 IPM.   The leadscrew on your 1054 is threaded 5 TPI.  So if your feed handle is rotating at 1 revolution per second, that's a feed rate of 12 IPM.   Intuitively, one rev per second seems about right to me for the 2" cutter at the 0.020" DOC.


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## davidpbest (Jun 20, 2022)

I just did a test run with my 2" Haas HRNP face mill - different insert type (see attached).  At 0.020" DOC, into CRS, what felt and looked right to me was 750 RPM at 12 IPM feed rate.  Chips were coming off straw color, the work piece wasn't absorbing tons of heat.  The surface finish was smooth to the touch (finger nail test) but had the same kind of tool marks yours is showing which is characteristic of CRS.  Later this week, I'll try it again with my octagon style HOP insert face mill (waiting for steel graded inserts at the moment).


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## erikmannie (Jun 20, 2022)

I know that I have a long ways to go in order to get a near-mirror finish, but let’s remember that 1018 does not lend itself well to easily getting a beautiful finish. The rare times that I machine aluminum, brass or 12L14, I am reminded how nicely these materials machine.

I machine 1018 about 90% of the time because it is so easy to weld, affordable, and I am so lazy that I *plan* to be able to use a magnet to help me clean the machines.

You guys are really nice to take the time to help me; you can bet that I will pay it forward!

I have had a hard time getting time to study because of working such long hours for at least the last 3 years. I did so in order to stock up on welding & machining equipment. That phase ended yesterday when I resigned from my Saturday job. This one development *almost doubles* my free time, and almost all of my free time is spent metalworking and studying. The point is that I will be able to pay it forward almost immediately.


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## davidpbest (Jun 20, 2022)

About the only way I have obtained “mirror finish” on 1018 is with an angle grinder and several passes with abrasive wheels followed by scotch-brite pad.  LOL  I hate the stuff except for structural fabrications.   In my experience, on the mill, the best surface finish for 1018 is with either very sharp HSS tooling or an insert that has a honed edge and deep chip breaker that’s intended for use on aluminum.  Everything else I’ve tried leaves toolmarks.  I much prefer working with 12L14 or 4140.


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## erikmannie (Jun 20, 2022)

Now I recall that most of the steel that I buy from the local steel yard is specifically A36 hot rolled. Compared to 1018, A36HR is less expensive, more ductile, and more difficult to machine to a mirror finish.

A little Googling reveals that abrasives or a surface grinder are usually more practical (faster and easier) in order to achieve a mirror finish on A36HR.

I imagine that many an entry level machinists have been humbled by A36, not realizing that their choice of material set them up for this frustration.

As with any material, a more rigid machine and workholding setup, improved trammel, fine tuned feeds and speeds, clearing out chips (particularly if using an insert with a wiper), oil, and cutting tool selection (material, nose radius, quality) can optimize the surface finish.

Compared with most other steels, choose A36 for affordability and weldability at the expense of machinability (with regard to maximizing surface finish) reduced tensile strength. 

A36 scratches easily and can be porous.


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## erikmannie (Jun 20, 2022)

Here is the surface finish on this 1” wide A36HR with 12 IPM feed, 1200 RPM, plenty of dark screw cutting oil. This milling machine is still working with a machinist level + 1-2-3 block trammel. Ignore the bevel, as that was done with a single angle cutter.


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## erikmannie (Jun 20, 2022)

There is one last shot of a face milling job with a .0022” DOC, 1200 RPM on a 2” indexable face mill, 11 IPM feed & dark screw cutting oil. I see now that I need compressed air.


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## erikmannie (Jun 20, 2022)

I am not so proud of this, but here is first thing that I made on this milling machine: 1” weld test plates with 42° bevel and 3/32” landing.

The landings don’t match up very well. The finish is, I want to say, unfinished? The deburring work with the hand file needs improvement. It took me way too long to make them, but it was solid entertainment and I learned a lot.

Moving forward, I just need more consistency…and a fly cutter!











The landings are a train wreck. Next time, I to make sure to machine them using an identical process.


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## Liljoebrshooter (Jun 20, 2022)

Why are you so concerned about the mirror finish on a plate your going to weld on?
It takes a while to figure out how to get the best results from different materials. 

Joe


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## xr650rRider (Jun 20, 2022)

And most "Welders" cut those bevels with a torch or grind them.  I've never seen a "Welder" with a milling machine out in the field.


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## ddickey (Jun 20, 2022)

Looking at these pics really show how out of tram your mill is.


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## erikmannie (Jun 20, 2022)

ddickey said:


> Looking at these pics really show how out of tram your mill is.


That is exactly what I was thinking as I was uploading the pictures!

First thing tomorrow, I am going to tram the nod & tilt with a dial indicator.


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## 7milesup (Jun 20, 2022)

And then you can run one pass with those smelly, dirty stick welding rods and start all over.  LOL


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## erikmannie (Jun 22, 2022)

Today I tried & failed to tram the head. I was using a brand new .0001” Chinese dial test indicator & a tramming “adjustable arm tool” that goes in a 3/8” collet. You put the mill in neutral and swing the arm (with the DTI on the end) to sweep two opposite sides of the table about 10” apart.

As I anticipated, the .0001” DTI was much too sensitive to work with. Keeping in mind that I had to lower and raise the knee between readings (making sure to hit my z-axis zero to the nearest .0002” according to the DRO), even the slightest bump of the arm or DTI (e.g. setting the DTI to 0) would send the DTI reading out .001” or so.

Also, the spring-loaded measuring arm on the DTI was sticking just a little bit, or at least it was not smooth. You can imagine how frustrating it is when you get your reading, and then when you lower the knee the needle does not move. It was definitely a sticky “plunger”!

I quickly came to the conclusion that a .0001” DTI is too fine to tram a head in this manner.

I bought one of these below even though it only spans just over 5”. At least I won’t need to swing an arm around to get a reading with this one! Looking at the price, I would guess that the dial indicators are cheap imports.






Link:









						Pro Tram System 01-000, 09-000
					

The Pro Tram by Edge Technology makes the process of tramming your mill fast, easy and accurate. Tramming is the process of squaring the head of your milling machine to the table. The Pro Tram is sized to fit the bed of a 6" vise allowing you to tram directly to vise for increased accuracy. It...




					www.edgetechnologyproducts.com
				





Note that the resolution is .0005” which is about as fine as I would want to use. Starrett makes one of these and it’s resolution is .001”, but I didn’t have enough money for the Starrett one.

The company that I bought this from (Edge Technology) also offers one with a resolution of .001”.


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## Just for fun (Jun 22, 2022)

I have that same unit and it works very well.


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## davidpbest (Jun 22, 2022)

I own, and I use the Edge Pro Tram system for gross tramming operations.  It works fine.  The indicators are solid Chinesium.  For finer tuning, (and for indicating for centering a hole under the spindle CL), I prefer to use a *Noga NF1018* centering indicator holder and a 5/10ths test indicator as shown below, secured in the spindle with a 5/16" R8 collet.


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## ddickey (Jun 22, 2022)

@erikmannie Do you have a .0005" dti? Get yourseld a 1/4" peice rod and bend it ~45°. You'll need a snug to fit on the end and put your indicator on it. Set up a 1-2-3 block so that the indicator just touches on an edge, same on the other side.


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## erikmannie (Jun 22, 2022)

So I see that nobody is using a .0001” DTI for this task. Two years ago, I had a Shars .0005” DTI, but I mistakenly turned on the PM-25MV which quickly (and violently) tore off the plunger on that DTI. This is why I can’t have nice things LOL. I replaced that .0005” DTI with the .0001” DTI that I was using yesterday. The .0001” is so fine that it is jerky at best. I have always wanted a quality .0005” DTI, specifically a Brown and Sharpe BesTest which are expensive; I hesitate to buy any used DI or DTI on eBay because I have done so a few times, only to end up with a sticky plunger.

Would you believe that I *forgot* the idea of using a 1-2-3 block for the task of tramming a head? The idea of raising and lowering the table immediately introduces the possibility of .0002” error, even with a DRO.

That NOGA centering indicator holder is much nicer than the super cheap unit that I have now.

I was also measuring against the table rather than the vise. I can see that the vise makes more sense, at least for work held in the vise.

As an experiment (and while I await my Edge Technology product), I will try again with the .0001” DTI using 1-2-3 blocks on the vise, but I anticipate jerkiness in the DTI, a less than rigid setup with the cheap centering indicator holder and maybe even a sticky plunger on the cheap DTI.


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## erikmannie (Jun 22, 2022)

Here is my setup with the .0001” DTI. I adjusted the centering indicator so that I have a serviceable angle, and I can take measurements on either ends of the vise.


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## Just for fun (Jun 22, 2022)

Looks like that should work if your DTI is working and you are able to rotate it without hitting the vice.


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## xr650rRider (Jun 22, 2022)

I think you'd be well served in watching some tramming (not trammeling) videos on youtube.  I'd tram the table with properly adjusted gibs, without the vise.  Unless you know that everything thing you'll ever mill will be in the vise.  I often have to fixture to the table without the vise.  You need to check running table it's full length and not just in 1 spot.  Again unless you only mill in that 1 spot forever.  As your setup now, going to be more difficult to do the Y direction.   After table is perfect, then check you vise and hopefully a Kurt is perfect dimensionally.

I've got the edge technology but actually prefer to use this one.  You can make so it matches your setup.


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## erikmannie (Jun 22, 2022)

Note:
All values listed below do not take into account cosine error. I am regarding the DTI measuring arm as a vertical plunger.

Having just trammed the tilt inside the vise, I am sure that is setup was good to within .0004” over 7”. I got a little lucky at one point, and I was able to get *this measurement* to within .0004” over 8”.

What I did to not perturb either the DTI or centering indicator was:

(1) Drop the quill initially, and I *turned the spindle directly with my fingers* (not touching the measuring instruments) for the sweep (which served to change measuring positions 180°). Obviously, the mill is in neutral.

(2) Using the DRO, I lowered & then raised back the knee (about .020”) in between measurements. My DRO reads to the nearest .0002”.


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## erikmannie (Jun 22, 2022)

Although I am going to do the nod now with this .0001” DTI, I would never use a tenths indicator for this again. An example of things that caused the needle to jump a carefully measured .0001” is *taking your hand off of the z-axis handle* after bringing the knee up to my zero.

A related but separate side factoid is locking the quill causes the DTI to read a .0004” variation. Taking your hand off of the quill feed handwheel does *not* move the DTI.


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## erikmannie (Jun 22, 2022)

Here is the nod trammeling setup. My initial nod was out .0048” over 7”.

Right after I tram the head, I am going to face mill a 9 1/2” square plate to test everything.


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## erikmannie (Jun 22, 2022)

Right when I was almost about to start crying from frustration, I got even more lucky than last time, and I was able to get it to .0003” over 7”. I see that this took me 45 minutes.

The frustrating part was that I kept rotating the adjustment knob the wrong way and making it worse! Of course, I followed that up by overcorrecting. And on and on it went like that, all compounded by the granularity of a tenths indicator.


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## erikmannie (Jun 22, 2022)

Looking at the pass going down the *horizontal middle* of the photos below (one photo taken with flash, one photo taken without flash), I am happy for now with the surface finish. It is 1200 RPM, 14 IPM, .035” DOC, no oil. The facing mill and inserts are the same as described earlier in this thread.


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## erikmannie (Jun 22, 2022)

This whole side is a .020” DOC, 22 IPM feed, 1200 RPM and no oil.

I used the x-power feed for this facing op.


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## davidpbest (Jun 22, 2022)

As for the indicator itself, IMO a tenths indicator (0.0001”) is too sensitive for tramming.  I reserve my tenths indicators for use on the surface plate (for checking tolerances, squareness, *surface finish*, etc.) and to calibrate my *Haimer* and _*Tschorn*_ 3D edge finders.  I have found that the best indicator for tramming purposes is one marked in 5/10ths - like the one I showed in the photos above.

I did not mean to imply by my photo that you should tram the mill with the vise installed - I was simply too lazy to remove my vise to snap that photo of the indicator and Noga indicator holder posted above.   Indeed, all items on the table should be removed before tramming.  The following video is the process I use and recommend, except that moving a 1-2-3 block around the table as you check heights makes the job easier and more accurate.


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## erikmannie (Jun 22, 2022)

This is the last post from the shop today. In the photo below, I used the y-axis power feed. The RPM was 1200, still no oil, .025” DOC and a feed of 12.7 IPM.

I may be happy with this for now. It does pretty well on the fingernail test.


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## erikmannie (Jun 22, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> As for the indicator itself, IMO a tenths indicator (0.0001”) is too sensitive for tramming.  I reserve my tenths indicators for use on the surface plate (for checking tolerances, squareness, *surface finish*, etc.) and to calibrate my *Haimer* and _*Tschorn*_ 3D edge finders.  I have found that the best indicator for tramming purposes is one marked in 5/10ths - like the one I showed in the photos above.
> 
> I did not mean to imply by my photo that you should tram the mill with the vise installed - I was simply too lazy to remove my vise to snap that photo of the indicator and Noga indicator holder posted above.   Indeed, all items on the table should be removed before tramming.  The following video is the process I use and recommend, except that moving a 1-2-3 block around the table as you check heights makes the job easier and more accurate.


As my vise has only been indicated with a machinist square, I will be removing my vise when I tram the head with the new Edge Technology instrument.


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