# Can anyone identify the vendor of this mill?



## Rata222 (Oct 8, 2017)

Hi
Purchased this mill a few weeks ago.   There is no brand name on the badge – only a model and serial number.  It is similar to the Grizzly G1004.  It is gray- so thinking maybe Enco.  It was made in 1997.  Just curious who would have sold this machine.  Perhaps someone would recognize the model number.   It is IKN-11000M .
Jim


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## bl00 (Oct 8, 2017)

It looks like it's it nice shape!  There's a bit of info here: http://www.foundcollection.com/15_02ed8289389a3ae6_1.htm


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## Ulma Doctor (Oct 8, 2017)

it was most likely manufactured in Taiwan. they were sold under many badge names.
Acrow, Select, Trans World Steel, Jet, and other badges were affixed to the machines
I have the  Trans World Steel VHM728

your machine looks very Similar to the old Jet JVM830 (see page 30 of the attached literature)


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## Dave Paine (Oct 8, 2017)

It does look like the same design as the Grizzly G1004/G1008.  I have the G1008 which was made in Taiwan in 1999.

The Grizzly manual in case you do not have a manual.

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g1004_m.pdf


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## Rata222 (Oct 8, 2017)

Thank you all for the replies and sending the links.
B100 - I dont know how you found that link with the model number listed. I thought I had done a thorough 
search.  So evidently it was sold by J&L.
Ulma Doctor and Dave Paine - thank you for the catalog and manual.

The machine was used in a small parts house making one small plate for Industrial Sewing machines. I tore it down for a good cleaning and it appears to be in great shape.


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## Dave Paine (Oct 8, 2017)

Your mill is in much better shape than mine.   The fellow who sold me my mill owned it from new in 2000, but he was not one cleaning up the chips so the Y axis ways have some grooves where chips got underneath.

The seller pointed out that the mill does not have a quill lock.  He said he holds the spindle pulley with one hand while using the wrench with the other and never had a problem tightening or loosening the drawbar.  So far he has been correct.

I did not like the speeds on my mill.   Nothing in between 490 and 950 rpm.  Also changing the belts was a pain since insufficient movement on the motor mount so the belts were not really loose enough.

I also had some belt noise due to the auxiliary pulley being about 1/2in higher than the spindle pulley and no easy way to tweak the alignment.

I finally removed the auxiliary arm and pulley, and flipped the motor pulley upside down.   I now only have 3 speeds, but they are ones I can use.   I measured with a hand held tachometer.  Speeds are now 560, 862 and 1200 rpm.  

The link belt runs smooth and quiet.   The long length and the links make changing belts easy.  A lot more stretch than a fixed belt.

I was also able easily align the motor pulley with the spindle pulley.




By the way, if you ever need to remove the motor pulley, mine has TWO set screws in the pulley.

I want to eventually change the motor to a 3 phase motor with a VFD.   Each month some other bills get priority over this purchase.

If your motor is the same as mine, it may be a non-standard motor.   Mine has a 3/4in shaft and if I recall a metric sized key.  

NEMA motors would be either 5/8in or 7/8in.  The motor mount spacing seems like a NEMA 145 which has 7/8in shaft.  If is easy to purchase a single pulley for 7/8in shaft, but not easy to find a 3 step pulley.

The previous owner said the original motor was making a noise so he replaced with a 1 HP NEMA frame 56 motor which has 5/8in shaft and made a bushing and deeper key.   I took the original 1 1/2HP motor apart.  Something fell out, likely the source of the noise.  It started up and ran without any noise so I put this back in the mill since the original motor is quieter especially on startup.


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## Rata222 (Oct 9, 2017)

Dave - Thank you for all the info you provided.



Dave Paine said:


> Your mill is in much better shape than mine. The fellow who sold me my mill owned it from new in 2000, but he was not one cleaning up the chips so the Y axis ways have some grooves where chips got underneath.



My machine was used to produce a part thst was a small plate with grooves milled in.  So wear is predominant in the Y-avis and quill.  Though not bad.  The Y axis on mine  is scored also from chips. After cleaning and adjusting gibs it seems to have consistancy through the entire travel.  So not really that worn.  I like to think of those grooves as oil pockets- LOL.



Dave Paine said:


> The seller pointed out that the mill does not have a quill lock. He said he holds the spindle pulley with one hand while using the wrench with the other and never had a problem tightening or loosening the drawbar. So far he has been correct.


I also questioned the no spindle lock.  The seller showed me the draw bar has two nuts on it. The top nut is brazed or locktited on the end of the drawbar.  Underneath it  is a jam nut. After threading into the collet - You tighten the jam nut to pull the draw bar.  To loosen you use two wrenches - Holding the top nut. and loosening the jam  nut.  Looks  like that should work well.  Have not used it much yet to prove it out. 
Thanks - Jim


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## olcopper (Oct 9, 2017)

If It's an R8 spindle, check the spindle to see if there are any holes drilled in it, if there are the machine probably came with a spanner to hold the spindle for tightening or loosning , and. if it's like most of them, it was the first thing lost---take a look at the Grizzly manual, if you indeed have a spindle  like this, the Grizzly spanner should work.  My last Grizzly came with a spanner.
olcop
Edit-----It doesen't have this type spindle, the manual states that one should grasp the rim pf the spindle pulley and hold, and use your other hand with a cloth to insert the collet and tool, then use your third hand to tighten the drawbar
oc


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## 4GSR (Oct 9, 2017)

olcopper said:


> ........................................ the manual states that one should grasp the rim pf the spindle pulley and hold, and use your other hand with a cloth to insert the collet and tool, then use your third hand to tighten the drawbar
> oc


I guess you use your teeth to tighten the draw bar???


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## Silverbullet (Oct 14, 2017)

My enco could be it's twin just different paint.


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## jwild1bill (Apr 12, 2018)

Rata222 said:


> View attachment 243683
> View attachment 243684
> 
> 
> ...


I have one exactly like yours and mine appears to have been made in 2000 3! have you found out who made it yet?


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## Rata222 (Apr 12, 2018)

jwild1bill said:


> I have one exactly like yours and mine appears to have been made in 2000 3! have you found out who made it yet?



  Yep.... as Jl00 pointed out above, mine was sold by J&L. There is info in the link he provided.  Though the outside resembles Grizzly G1004 - when I disassembled the spindle,- it matched closer to the G0730 manual.
.hope you enjoy your as much as I have mine.
Jim


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## jwild1bill (Apr 13, 2018)

I


Rata222 said:


> Yep.... as Jl00 pointed out above, mine was sold by J&L. There is info in the link he provided.  Though the outside resembles Grizzly G1004 - when I disassembled the spindle,- it matched closer to the G0730 manual.
> .hope you enjoy your as much as I have mine.
> Jim


 I think you meant B100! are there any owner manuals and literature available for this machine and is J&L still in business? if so do you have a #! I have not had the pleasure of using mine yet, but I am sure that I will Thanks!


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## jwild1bill (Apr 13, 2018)

Rata222 said:


> Yep.... as Jl00 pointed out above, mine was sold by J&L. There is info in the link he provided.  Though the outside resembles Grizzly G1004 - when I disassembled the spindle,- it matched closer to the G0730 manual.
> .hope you enjoy your as much as I have mine.
> Jim


here is a picture


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## Rata222 (Apr 13, 2018)

That looks just like mine.  I was surprised to see my  switch is the same as yours. I had always thought it was a replacement - since there was no reverse and it was not mounted facing the operator - and sort of out of reach.  I did add a toggle switch to the junction box mounted on the motor.  This allows the machine to run in reverse


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## jwild1bill (Apr 13, 2018)

d


Rata222 said:


> That looks just like mine.  I was surprised to see my  switch is the same as yours. I had always thought it was a replacement - since there was no reverse and it was not mounted facing the operator - and sort of out of reach.  I did add a toggle switch to the junction box mounted on the motor.  This allows the machine to run in reverse


do you have a picture of toggle switch mounted and diagram of how you wired it up! that would make tapping a lot easyer! and where did you buy your toggle switch?


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## Rata222 (Apr 13, 2018)

I believe I used a standard Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT) toggle switch. .The wiring diagram is on the motor.  I will check and gladly send you the info and pics- -hopefully by Monday. I am gone for the weekend. PM me your email address.
Jim


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## Z2V (Apr 14, 2018)

Hi Jim
I have the same mill with Enco badge. Tonight I finished wiring up a VFD controller for it. Everything is all wired up and running just need to mount the new motor. Looking forward to variable speed without having to mess with the tight ..s belts.


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## Rata222 (Apr 14, 2018)

Z2V said:


> Hi Jim
> I have the same mill with Enco badge. Tonight I finished wiring up a VFD controller for it. Everything is all wired up and running just need to mount the new motor. Looking forward to variable speed without having to mess with the tight ..s belts.


 That VFD will be nice.  I hope to put a VFD on in the future - if I run across a motor thats reasonable.  My first priority is a DRO.  I dont mind using the dials on my other mills - but having .125 per rev instead of .100 on this machine is a pain.


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## Z2V (Apr 14, 2018)

Mine came with DRO already installed, sure glad it did.


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## Mitch Alsup (Apr 14, 2018)

Rata222 said:


> That VFD will be nice.  I hope to put a VFD on in the future - if I run across a motor thats reasonable.



Single phase induction motors (the vast majority of them) can be converted to 3-phase by removing the (start and) run capacitor(s).
So, you should not have to switch motors just to get VFD.


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## brino (Apr 14, 2018)

Mitch Alsup said:


> Single phase induction motors (the vast majority of them) can be converted to 3-phase by removing the (start and) run capacitor(s).



Really? How do you do that?
I picture two wires from the motor and three from the supply..........neglecting all grounds/neutrals.....how does that work?
-brino


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## Mitch Alsup (Apr 14, 2018)

Pull up the grizzly manual:: http://cdn2.grizzly.com/manuals/g0730_m.pdf
and turn to page 39 and 40.

Here we see the wiring diagram that allows the motor to be switched from 120V to 230V. Notice that there are 6 wires coming out of the motor, and start and run capacitors <somehow connected to the motor. In the 210V configuration 3 of the motor wires are connected together, in the 210V configuration three (3) sets of wires are connected individually together.

NOTE: the terminal numbering in this manual does not correspond to the terminal numbering in ANSI motor wiring specs. But otherwise is illustrative of the dual voltage wiring.

{Aside: there are induction motors of low HP levels that are single phase only--for things like refrigerators,... We are not talking about these--we are talking about motors with significant power (> 1HP) but more importantly those that can be reversed in direction.}

Next pull up: http://css.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Motors1.pdf
and go to page 326 in the book, page 10 in the chapter PDF.

Dual voltage motors can be used in Wye (Y) style (fig 16-25) but can equally be used in Delta style as (fig 16-26). In the low voltage configuration coils are run in parallel, in the high voltage configuration coils are run in series. The Grizzly manual is showing the Delta configuration of dual voltage operation but in 120V<->210V whereas the PDF is showing 230V<->460V.

In the single phase configuration, a capacitor is used to create the third phase.
By gaining access to the third pole, and removing the capacitor, the reversible induction motor is perfectly happy to run on 3-phase power.

Running with a correctly spec'ed capacitor, the 1-phase version delivers 83% of the motors HP capability compared to the same motor running in 3-phase with the same voltages.

ETA: Question 12 at the end of the chapter illustrates the purported wiring of the motor in question.
My previous statement needs to be modified to include the ability to reverse motor direction. This implies that there are actually 3 phases of coils in the motor. Irreversible inductions motors need only 2 sets of coils, and always have to have a capacitor--these are typically reserved for low voltage (120V) and lower power, refrigerators, fans,...

My previous statement might also need to be modified to include the dual voltage option--but my EE training ended in 1975 and I can't remember.


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## Boswell (Apr 14, 2018)

I found this simplistic picture on the web. While I have never done this, could it be as simple as removing the caps and connect the 3 phase like in the picture?


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## Mitch Alsup (Apr 14, 2018)

You have a picture of a 1-phase to 3-phase motor converter. Here you are using one motor to provide 3-phases to another motor.
I was explaining how to convert a 1-phase motor with start/run capacitor(s) into a (pure) 3-phase motor. Here there is only 1 motor.
But the underlying principles are the same.

A 3-phase induction motor needs no capacitors.


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## brino (Apr 14, 2018)

Um....that's not how I read it.

Mitch,
Both of those references do talk about "dual voltage" motors, ie. ones able to run from either 120VAC or 240VAC.
The Grizzly manual only talks about a single-phase motor.
The second one also talks about
1) how to convert a single-phase motor between the low-voltage and high-voltage configurations, and
2) how to convert a three-phase motor between the low-voltage and high-voltage configurations
But it does NOT say that you can turn a single-phase motor into a three-phase motor.

Boswell,
That picture looks like the standard "rotary phase converter" using a three-phase motor to generate a quasi-three-phase supply from a single phase input.

-brino


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## Mitch Alsup (Apr 15, 2018)

brino said:


> But it does NOT say that you can turn a single-phase motor into a three-phase motor.



No, it does not. What the Grizzly diagrams (near picture) illustrates is that the motor has 6 coils (not 2 for refrigerators). This is the necessary precondition for turning a 1-phase motor into 3-phase.

Now go to question 12 and look at the 1-phase diagram.

If you remove the switch (upside down U) and the capacitor ( -||- ) from the diagram and add an external wire to the 3rd coil, you now have a 3-phase motor.

Since the run capacitor is accessible outside of the motor, one HAS access to the 3rd coil even when one does not have access to the switch.

After one has the motor wired up for 3-phase operation, on then needs a 3-phase forward-off-reverse switch.


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## jwild1bill (Apr 15, 2018)

b


Rata222 said:


> I believe I used a standard Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT) toggle switch. .The wiring diagram is on the motor.  I will check and gladly send you the info and pics- -hopefully by Monday. I am gone for the weekend. PM me your email address.
> Jim


"burgess1517@sbcglobal.net"


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## Rata222 (Apr 18, 2018)

jwild1bill said:


> d
> 
> do you have a picture of toggle switch mounted and diagram of how you wired it up! that would make tapping a lot easyer! and where did you buy your toggle switch?



jwild1bill
I sent the info with a bunch of pics Monday morning to your email.  Did you get them?
Jim


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## jwild1bill (Apr 20, 2018)

Rata222 said:


> jwild1bill
> I sent the info with a bunch of pics Monday morning to your email.  Did you get them?
> Jim


Jim! No I did not receive them! Bill


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## Toolsrmeyething (Nov 21, 2018)

Ulma Doctor said:


> it was most likely manufactured in Taiwan. they were sold under many badge names.
> Acrow, Select, Trans World Steel, Jet, and other badges were affixed to the machines
> I have the  Trans World Steel VHM728
> 
> your machine looks very Similar to the old Jet JVM830 (see page 30 of the attached literature)


Hello, I’d really like a copy of that Manual if possible? I just joined this Forum as I just picked up a JVM830 Myself.


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