# What Does Universal Mean In A Tool Name ?



## BillWood (Mar 13, 2015)

I often see the word Universal included in a tool name

Universal Dividing Head

Universal Pillar Tool

Why not just "Dividing Head" or "Pillar Tool"


Bill


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## randyc (Mar 13, 2015)

"Universal" often applies to horizontal toolroom mills that can produce many unconventional shapes due to a manual 4-axis capability.  A "Universal" dividing head would imply one that is designed to be used on a Universal mill and can be coupled to the mill feed mechanism so that it rotates in a precise ratio to the table travel.  This is used to produce spirals (think twist drills), helical gears and so on.  Dunno' about a "universal pillar tool".

Here is a full description of my Lietz universal toolroom mill:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/an-unusual-horizontal-milling-machine-very-long-post.32488/


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## Reeltor (Mar 14, 2015)

Most dividing heads that you see for sale are semi-universal; they can do everything an "Universal" head can do except being coupled to the horizontal table feed.  Being coupled to the X table feed is useful for milling spirals or helical gears, and like Bill Wood said in the post above, think of the shape of the grooves in a twist drill.
A universal mill, is one that has the ability to change the angle of the table.  I don't have a clue on how far right or left the table can be set.  Some shapers are also universal, same change the angle of the table thing.
If looking at a new or used dividing head, if it has a tail off the back side away from the chuck end it most likely is a universal head.  A universal dividing head for the most part, is machine specific to use the universal features.  In addition to the dividing head you need a "banjo" and gear set to couple the head to the mill table.

Mike


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## hermetic (Mar 14, 2015)

A term much used (and misused) to describe milling machines, especially on ebay. Many "universal" milling machines have the capability to operate as both horizontal and vertical milling machines, but with some makes, the term universal also indicates further functional facilities not available on the simpler models. For instance, on the Harrison Horizontal mill, the universal model has a pivoting table , and in fact this is the only Harrison machine that carries the true universal title, although many sellers insist that if it is a horizontal mill with a vertical head attachment, then it must be a universal...........It isn't! 
Usually given to mean "all the functionality of our entire range, in one machine" 
Your experiences may vary, usual disclaimers apply, investments will generally go down when you want them to go up!
Phil.


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## randyc (Mar 14, 2015)

The Lietz mentioned above can rotate +/- 45 degrees and has an auxiliary vertical head, although I am missing the universal dividing head, unhappily.  The German manufacturer refers to it as a "Universal Toolroom Mill" - the "toolroom" presumably refers to its versatility.

Mine was made in 1953 and is in "like new" condition, no marks on the table, backlash almost non-existent, "Z" axis is graduated in .0005 increments and all controls are silky smooth, including the overarm.  I was incredibly lucky to find this thing, especially in my rural area; the price was peanuts and the original owner helped me move it !

There are lots of photos in the thread referenced above and I have all forty-something pages of the original factory documentation 

P.S.  One of the many things that I LOVE about this machine:  although it has 16 spindle speeds, 4 speeds are instantly available without changing the belt drive !


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## hermetic (Mar 15, 2015)

In the UK and Europe "toolroom" generally means a machine built to tighter tolerances than a production machine. On Colchester lathes, they would measure the tolerances as the machines came off the production line, and select the ones that came closest to exact spec, give them a set of  black dials, and call them "toolroom"  Unlucky that you do not have the original dividing head, but was it with the mill when originally supplied? Some people bought the full works, some just what they needed. The quality of the  Lietz is legendary. You will no doubt have looked at www.lathes.co.uk/lietz (it is down at the moment, but will soon be back, must be maintenance day!)
Phil
UK


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## randyc (Mar 15, 2015)

hermetic said:


> In the UK and Europe "toolroom" generally means a machine built to tighter tolerances than a production machine. On Colchester lathes, they would measure the tolerances as the machines came off the production line, and select the ones that came closest to exact spec, give them a set of  black dials, and call them "toolroom"  Unlucky that you do not have the original dividing head, but was it with the mill when originally supplied? Some people bought the full works, some just what they needed. The quality of the  Lietz is legendary. You will no doubt have looked at www.lathes.co.uk/lietz (it is down at the moment, but will soon be back, must be maintenance day!)
> Phil
> UK



Yes, I've looked at Tony's site and, unless he has posted the photos that I sent him a few years ago, I didn't find a machine like mine (in fact I've only seen one other one like mine and it was in an old post on "Practical Machinist").  Lathes UK is a wonderful resource and obviously a labor of love for him since he makes only a pittance providing manuals and the like.  When I bought my Sheldon EXL-56B lathe, the last owner gave me three sets of documentation that he'd obtained from Tony.  These are high quality reproductions on heavy paper and WAY better than the originals in terms of durability !

If the Lietz came with the dividing head, there's no mention of it on the original purchase order (although there's no mention of the vertical head either).  Here's an illustration of how gently used was this machine.  I bought it from the original - and only - operator at Humboldt State University, who worked in a fuel cell lab there.  When the lab was shut down a few years ago, he bought the mill from them and I subsequently obtained it from him.

There are a few photos in the thread referenced above where the machine is seen with an arbor set up with a half-dozen slitting saws.  The machine's operator told me that the only operation the mill was ever tasked to do was slitting something or other with this single setup !  This was after I'd asked him about operating the vertical head at one of the higher speeds.  He said that he'd never mounted the vertical head (although it has chipped paint indicating either some usage or maybe from rattling around in the back of his truck, LOL).  He told me that the machine had only been operated at the speed it was adjusted for when I bought it.

This is a very knowledgeable guy, by the way, and I quoted one of his extensive comments in my review of this machine.  He owns a local business, manufacturing custom racing bicycles and has a nice machine shop albeit very crowded.  The Lietz took up some valuable floor space and was intended for only one operation:  coping aluminum tubing for welding.  He figured out a cool way of doing this on his Nardini so the Lietz became superfluous.

I suppose if I ever needed the coupled dividing head I could rig up something that would work but it would take a LOT of time.  I doubt that I'll ever need to do that


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## hermetic (Mar 16, 2015)

Good grief Randy, it sounds like it is virtually unused.  Tony also runs an engineering company, making parts for lathes and other machinery, and also deals in lathes and other machinery. I think that it is by far the best knowledge resource for machine tools of all sizes, and I doubt a week goes past without me using it to check something or other!
Good luck with your milling!
Phil
UK


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## randyc (Mar 16, 2015)

hermetic said:


> Good grief Randy, it sounds like it is virtually unused.  Tony also runs an engineering company, making parts for lathes and other machinery, and also deals in lathes and other machinery. I think that it is by far the best knowledge resource for machine tools of all sizes, and I doubt a week goes past without me using it to check something or other!
> Good luck with your milling!
> Phil
> UK



Well that's great to know.  I always wondered how Tony was paying grocery store clerks from his web site income !!!  I agree that he has the most comprehensive site in the world, he is a motivated guy !

As far as the Lietz is concerned, it IS virtually unused.  I've never, never encountered a deal like this one:  beautiful mill with the most intelligent drive system I've seen, lots of arbor spacers, two straight arbors (7/8 and 1 inch) and a treasure trove of documentation.

The Lietz has since been well tooled up from eBay - turns out that purchasing arbor tooling is NOT the costly enterprise that I was initially led to believe.





(There are some substantial slab mills and about a dozen NMTB-40 end mill holders not shown, they are stored on a different work bench.)

This was one of those "in the right place at the right time" incidents.  I keep in touch with the original owner; he's a very intelligent guy and a talented machinist.  He's come by the house a couple of times to bring items for the Lietz that he'd forgotten to provide at the time of the sale.

Sometimes I read the thoughts that he provided, included in the initial review of this machine, and it makes me sad to think of what we've lost in terms of traditional skills.  CNC machinery are wonderful tools but my admiration goes to the tool/die makers who could make a machine like this Lietz do their bidding to produce wonderfully complex parts !

(PS:  LMAO at your comment on PM today on the tailstock thread.)


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## hermetic (Mar 17, 2015)

I agree with you on H mill tooling, it is not that expensive, and there is a lot of int40 about. My harrison is int30, so not quite as plentiful, but still not difficult. I need some more arbors, as I have a lot of imperial tooling, and only one metric arbor! My lucky find was the vertical head for the Harrison, which are generally rare as hens teeth, but I bought one of a guy who had bought an industrial building, and found it whilst clearing it out. It still had an int30 collet chuck and a cutter in it! Tyrone is a good guy, and very knowlegable and experienced, but I get rankled when people lay down rules without saying WHY, because that way no one learns anything, and one of the greatest uses of the internet is the dissemination of knowledge. If we share, we also all learn!
Phil
UK


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## randyc (Mar 17, 2015)

OK, I'm getting off topic here but I completely agree with you about Tyrone.  He is one smart, experienced dude but, like you, I dislike dictums (dicta ?) without explanations.  By coincidence, LOL, one of the surfaces of my Sheldon tailstock has a .010 shim that I installed some time ago ... OK, it's a quick fix and not particularly elegant but hell, it WORKS.

Regarding needing more arbors, maybe this isn't your cuppa' but did you see my post about simple horizontal mill arbors ?  For me: so far so good but the NMTB locking nut needs to be seriously tight  and no helical cutters permitted.  This is a limitation, of course, but slotters and saws are real handy on arbors like this one:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/a-very-simple-arbor-for-horizontal-mills.32778/#post-276805

Your anecdote about how you obtained the vertical head is just about as serendipitous as me finding the Lietz.  Karma, maybe ?


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## hermetic (Mar 18, 2015)

It is My cuppa tea! I have several Int30 collet chucks, and some 1" (and maybe bigger too) collets, so this would be an emminently doable solution. I can cut the long keyway on the horizontal of course, and the arbor only needs to be "long enough" as I can move the  arbor support in to suit! Long arbors are available, but they are between £129-£180 each, and TBH until I go and measure the cutters I have, I don't really know what sizes and how many I need, but I am pretty sure that my arbor is 22mm, and I know that all the older cutters, some of which are unused, are in imperial sizes, probably mostly 1". I am thinking of making a taper turning attachment for one of my lathes, and if I did , turning a int 30 is not difficult given that the taper is a centering taper, not a driving one, so it doesn't need to be as perfect as, say a morse taper. It is a short taper too, so at a push it cou;d probably be turned with the topslide offset.
Phil.


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## randyc (Mar 18, 2015)

I've concluded that _long_ arbors of the type that I made are really not that necessary.  The arbor can be short and the cutter placed near the overarm when it needs to be outboard of the normal location in the center of the arbor.  Rigid location and concentric with the overarm bushing - better than using a long arbor IMO.

I'd suppose that the lathe compound should easily have sufficient travel to turn that 30 taper, even the 40 tapers are only three inches long (the tapered length).

I have taper attachments for both lathes (one shop-made the other factory) but I'm hard-pressed to find a use for them, LOL.  I've set up one of them for 2 MT (both of the lathes use that taper for the tailstock) in case I need a special tailstock tool.  But I've only used it once -  It is sort of comforting to have them, however


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## hermetic (Mar 19, 2015)

they can be expensive in the UK...................
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Taper...785?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c4fca1fe1


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