# r8 quick change collets



## Brento (Feb 17, 2018)

So i recently heard about the quick change set up for the r8 collets. My set up now is to use er20 collets in a r8 adaptor. Should i just stay with that design or is the quick change better. Im only a hobby machinist.


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## davidpbest (Feb 17, 2018)

Which quick change system are you referring to?   I use the Royal EasyChange system and love it.   No tools required to change cutters.   It's not cheap, but just fantastic.   This is the system I use:   http://www.royalproducts.com/product.cfm?catID=11

And here is my set of tool holders I use with the master chuck - set includes facemill arbor, slitting saw arbor, about 20 different end mill and shank tool holders, three ER32 chucks, three drill chucks, etc.:


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## Brento (Feb 17, 2018)

Ive seen this style and the mach 1 style. But as a hobby is it worth the price or am i better with doing a collet system i have in place already which is using er20s in a r8 adaptor im gonna be using a grizzly mini mill.


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## Brento (Feb 17, 2018)

What are the perks or negatives to using the quick change style


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## Ulma Doctor (Feb 17, 2018)

you heard the negative, the high cost...
the perk is fast tool changing, which means $$$ in a production environment 
your er20 system already has minimal run out, you may wanna stick with what you have.
you'll need to figure out what your time/money threshold is, if you have the itch to go quick change
you options are going to be limited in R8, and bring money when you wanna play!

http://www.royalproducts.com/product.cfm?catID=11
https://mach-1.com/r8-quick-change-tooling-system-for-milling-machines/
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Yuasa-Quick...478717?hash=item2a8f47dffd:g:FooAAOSwBUVZwRfd


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## Brento (Feb 17, 2018)

For the mach-1 style can anyone tell me what the collet facing fixture would be for?


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## kd4gij (Feb 17, 2018)

Brento said:


> For the mach-1 style can anyone tell me what the collet facing fixture would be for?




It is for facing the back of your collets to length to work with that system. Per the video on there site.


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## Brento (Feb 17, 2018)

Mach-1 seems to be pretty cool but very expensive. I’ll have to put these on my wish list for in the future.


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## davidpbest (Feb 18, 2018)

Brento said:


> Ive seen this style and the mach 1 style. But as a hobby is it worth the price or am i better with doing a collet system i have in place already which is using er20s in a r8 adaptor im gonna be using a grizzly mini mill.


Only you can answer if it's worth the price.   The master collet costs about $750 and each tool holder is about $250 if you buy it new from a US distributor.   This stuff is not inexpensive - I've built my set over 15 years scowering eBay and buying directly from a supplier in the UK (costs half what it does in the USA).   I probably have $5K wrapped up in my Royal QC system components.   I stared with a different QC system called PDQ, and quickly sold it off and moved to Royal to get better tolerances (TIR).

You might want to consider a power drawbar to make changing tooling quicker and easier.   The Mach-1 system is essentially a variation on a power drawbar setup.   There are lots of videos on YouTube about building your own power drawbar.   Here are a few:


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## Brento (Feb 18, 2018)

Thank you everyone. I appreciate the input!


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## TomS (Feb 18, 2018)

I use the Ultron Snap Change system.  Here's the website snapchange.com/.  It's a simple system that uses about 1" of spindle travel to change a collet.  No adapters or power drawbar are needed.   

The kit I bought was for a Bridgeport so I had to replicate the distance from the spindle nose to the drawbar seating surface on top of the spindle thus the need for the adapter plate and spool pictured below. 



This is the kit I bought.  It came with the special drawbar, the collet gripper, the rotation sensor (aluminum piece on the left), and 12 assorted collets.


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## Brento (Feb 18, 2018)

TomS said:


> I use the Ultron Snap Change system.  Here's the website snapchange.com.



 How much did the kit cost you? Im having trouble finding the price.


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## EmilioG (Feb 18, 2018)

I heard that the Royal Quick change system is only for light to medium duty milling, true?
Looks great, but very expensive system. I assume it's a USA product for that price.


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## ACHiPo (Feb 18, 2018)

TomS said:


> I use the Ultron Snap Change system.  Here's the website snapchange.com/.  It's a simple system that uses about 1" of spindle travel to change a collet.  No adapters or power drawbar are needed.
> 
> The kit I bought was for a Bridgeport so I had to replicate the distance from the spindle nose to the drawbar seating surface on top of the spindle thus the need for the adapter plate and spool pictured below.
> View attachment 258593
> ...


The Ultron kit looks interesting.  There's a base unit/clamp on Ebay for ~$250.


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## davidpbest (Feb 18, 2018)

The Royal QC system is made in the UK.   You can buy some of the parts from the UK distributor and save about 50 percent:  

http://rotagriponline.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=173&Itemid=29

I routinely run 3/4" endmills in aluminum with 0.500 depth of cut and 60 percent of OD engagement no problem.   On CRS and stainless steel, I use up to 3/4" 4-flute carbide endmills but depth of cut is limited to about 0.100.   I also run a 3" diameter face mill that will cut up to about 0.050" depth in aluminum.   There is a set screw you can lock tool holders into the master collet if you're really hogging off material - I've never had to use it.


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## higgite (Feb 18, 2018)

FWIW, there is a Youtube video by a fellow called “hossmachine” that shows a mod he did to his bench mill that looks to be a poor man’s take off of the Mach-1 system. Uses a combination of Bellville spring washers and a Tormach TTS tool system. I haven’t tried it myself, but it does look tempting. Not sure I could justify it for my hobby machine, except it IS a hobby machine and hobbies don’t need no stinkin’ justification.





Anybody have any pros and cons to throw at it?

Tom

Note to Brento and the mods: If this is too much of a thread hijack, please move it to a new thread. Thanks.


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## Brento (Feb 18, 2018)

No this is fine because I've seen them from hossmachine as well. I was trying to look up the price on his website but it seemed to be down when i looked last night. I will have to look up the tormach tts system right now.


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## Ben Nevis (Feb 18, 2018)

I adapted Hossmachine's idea to work on my RF 30 using the tormach system. Work great, well worth the cost, even for hobby use.
Here is a link to what I did.
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/power-drawbar-for-rf-30.42278/


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## Brento (Feb 18, 2018)

Yea im liking the tormach system and looks easy to replicate and make my own holders so i may buy the the manual machinist setup and make my own holders later.


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## Brento (Feb 18, 2018)

The only issue im finding is how to set unp the quick change system. I cant find anything on the tormach website for the r8 rod so do i make a beville washer setup? Do i make a power drawbar? I am liking that the collets are ER20s, i thought they were 32s.


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## chips&more (Feb 18, 2018)

I got a quick change set-up with a BP once. Had a R8 on one end and some weird quick change system on the other. When installed it stuck down quite a bit. Because it stuck out so much it didn’t look that rigid enough. So for that one reason I did not like it. Never used it, still have it somewhere?


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## Brento (Feb 18, 2018)

I'm thinking for use in the mini mill it would be perfect for certain jobs or tools that never would leave the collet. I'm asking a few people from youtube that made their own about the material they used to make them and when i make them i will make them so they are stubby so they don't stick out far from the spindle. I'm going to either make them as 2 pieces so i can lap the bottom and make it a nice mating surface for the spindle or as a single piece and lap it carefully depending on the run out


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## Brento (Feb 19, 2018)

So the youtubers have gotten back to me and some of them used 1144 stressproof and 12L14 and someone else used 1018 so im still thinking stainless because of it being tooling i dont want it to get mared up easily


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## RJSakowski (Feb 19, 2018)

I use the Tormach TTS system with a manual drawbar.  For the amount of tool changes that I typically do, I didn't think it worth the additional expense and complexity. 

Aside from faster tool changes, there are other advantages to the TTS system.  Tools are loaded into collet chucks, end mill holder, drill chucks, etc. all with the 3/4" shank which fits a slightly modified 3/4" R8 collet (the modeification consists of removing a small amount from the face of the collet so the TTS holder seats against the spindle face). This causes the TTS holder to precisely reference the spindle face assuring consistent tool length each time the loaded TTS collet is seated. There is no need for touch-off each time a tool is loaded.  Drawing the TTS holder against the spindle face produces a certain amount of force which is usually enough to unseat the TTS holder when the spindle drawbar is loosened.  This allows unseating the tool holder with a light tap.

As to negatives, the TTS system does introduce additional elements into the drive .  There is no such thing as a purely zero runout. Adding more components increases stacked runout.  For all intents, this isn't much of an issue for hobby machinists.  The TTS system does take up some of your vertical real estate which can be a problem on smaller machines.  The ER20 collet chuck adds a little over 2", the end mill holders, about 1-3/4", and the drill chuck adapters, about .6".  The TTS collet system is somewhat limited in the tool diameter which may not ber an issue for a small mill.  The ER20 collet's largest diameter is 13mm.  Tormach also sells ER32 collet chucks which extend the tool diameter to as much as 7/8".  The additional components do contribute to reduced rigidity.  The TTS system is used to best advantage with a DRO.  Tool offsets can be measured and recorded and used to set tool offsets.

The bottom line is that , having used the TTS system, I wouldn't go back to using R8 collets.  In addition  to my Tormach CNC, I have also converted my old mill drill to using the TTS system.  If I need to run a larger end mill, I can fall back on my R8 tool holders but virtually all of my machining is done with the TTS system.


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## Brento (Feb 19, 2018)

Ill have to look at other DRO right now im looking at a simple set on amazon for 135$


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## kd4gij (Feb 20, 2018)

I have used the Royal qc system on a bp type cnc mill.  And thought it would ideal for a bench top mill, Until I saw the price, over triple what I paid for my mill.   Thought sure there would be knock offs my now.


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## Brento (Feb 20, 2018)

I like the mach-1 style but to much money same with the royals thats why im thinking tormach bc its a little cheaper and i can make my own just dont know which material to use. Ive been getting mixed ideas


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## TomS (Feb 21, 2018)

Brento said:


> How much did the kit cost you? Im having trouble finding the price.



Sorry for not responding sooner.  Been tied up with an urgent family matter.  I bought my kit used for $150.  The rotation sensor was missing some parts so I sent it to the factory located in Long Beach, CA.  Cost me another $200 including shipping. 

It's been a while but I remember seeing a new kit advertised on Amazon?? for $1500.  They are still in business AFAIK.  Beware, the owner likes to talk.  He'll keep you on the phone for hours if you let him.

Edit - Used kits and components show up on eBay from time to time at reasonable prices.  Just bought a couple of used collets for $55 each.  New ones are more $100.  If you want more info I have a couple of brochures I can scan and post.


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## Brento (Feb 21, 2018)

TomS said:


> Sorry for not responding sooner.  Been tied up with an urgent family matter.  I bought my kit used for $150.  The rotation sensor was missing some parts so I sent it to the factory located in Long Beach, CA.  Cost me another $200 including shipping.
> 
> It's been a while but I remember seeing a new kit advertised on Amazon?? for $1500.  They are still in business AFAIK.  Beware, the owner likes to talk.  He'll keep you on the phone for hours if you let him.
> 
> Edit - Used kits and components show up on eBay from time to time at reasonable prices.  Just bought a couple of used collets for $55 each.  New ones are more $100.  If you want more info I have a couple of brochures I can scan and post.



Thank you but i think im going to go with the tormach system.


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## Ben Nevis (Feb 21, 2018)

Tormach sells tool holder blanks (pn#31802) for about $20 each if you want to make your own, and the tightening fixture (pn#33034) is highly recommended. I mounted mine on the X power feed so it is handy for changing collets.      If you already have a 3/4" R8 collet, you can use that. The only difference is that the Tormach collet is ground flat on the face. You can use your drawbar the way it is.
Another advantage of the tts system is that you only need 1 1/2" clearance, as opposed to 4" for a R8 collet, to change tools.
TTS tool holders, about $35 each.....changing tools in 3-4 seconds....Priceless!!!


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## Brento (Feb 21, 2018)

Im gonna prob buy the collet and either a end mill holder or a er holder. Maybe even buy the machinist set but thats 189 so i may be better just buy individuals. My plan is to make my own once i get one to copy.


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## TomS (Feb 21, 2018)

Brento said:


> Thank you but i think im going to go with the tormach system.



I understand.  Had I not found the Ultron system at such a good price I would have gone the Tormach route as well.


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## davidpbest (Feb 21, 2018)

Depending on the material and how aggressive you are with milling operations, the TSS system can be prone to tool pull-out.   Just be aware.


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## Brento (Feb 21, 2018)

Im not a very aggressive cutter but ive heard thank you.


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## Brento (Feb 23, 2018)

Would anyone happen to have any promotional codes for tormach?


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