# Suggestions for staying warm in da Shop?



## middle.road (Jan 7, 2018)

OK, I'd like to start a thread on staying warm, and also getting the shop warm enough to function in.
Short of battery powered socks and such, I would appreciate any input.
I'm living in East TN now - which granted is not 1/10th as difficult as a few clicks further north. I swear your blood thins out over time...
I'm having trouble keeping my feet and fingers from getting so chilled they hurt. I wear gloves when I can but when I get near moving machinery they come off.
Add to that my choice of foot wear is limited due to a messed up left foot. What I wouldn't give for my old snowmobiling boots & gloves 
I've been using a propane heater to get the temp up and then the 240V ceiling mounted heater to try to keep it bearable. ~55°-60°
I setup a small 6" server box fan to move the air around and that's helped a bit along with tarps inside of the overhead doors.
The previous owner insulated the devil out of the ceiling but did not put anything in the walls at all.
Wish I had the little mini coal stove my dad had in our house in Illinois. Toss a lump a coal in there overnight and all was fine.

Thanks!


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## 34_40 (Jan 7, 2018)

To help my feet, I've bought some of the interlocking matting that's really soft or spongy.
I love the way it keep me insulated from the floor and it also makes life easier on my feet.
The cold machines?  I haven't got a clue.


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## Technical Ted (Jan 7, 2018)

My workshop is in the basement of my house and even without heat the coolest I can remember it being down there is ~54 degrees F and that's in western NY state. Even so, I have a nice wood stove down there and always start a fire if I'm going to be down there for more than a couple minutes!  I get wood really cheap or for close to free, but if I didn't I think coal might be better.

Ted


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## cjtoombs (Jan 7, 2018)

I tried one of those little propane heaters that looks (and sounds) like a  jet engine.  It put off so much fumes that I could barely stand to have it on.  I finaly put in a forced air space heater from Northern Tool.  It works great, but it's a project in itself to put in.  One of those catalytic heaters might work well for you.


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## FOMOGO (Jan 7, 2018)

I would suggest a direct vent propane wall furnace. Easy to install, can run on a T-stat, sealed combustion, and most have a built in blower. Not sure about Tenn, but here I see them on Craigs list for free or cheap. Willams or Empire are good brands. They tend to come in 35k and 60k btu. As with most things bigger is better. Mike


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## woodchucker (Jan 7, 2018)

middle.road said:


> What I wouldn't give for my old snowmobiling boots & gloves


Same here. My snowmobiling boots were felt bootie inside a rubber lower and heavy nylon upper. They were warm and comfortable. I never see those anymore.


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## woodchucker (Jan 7, 2018)

middle.road said:


> OK, I'd like to start a thread on staying warm, and also getting the shop warm enough to function in.
> Short of battery powered socks and such, I would appreciate any input.
> I'm living in East TN now - which granted is not 1/10th as difficult as a few clicks further north. I swear your blood thins out over time...
> I'm having trouble keeping my feet and fingers from getting so chilled they hurt. I wear gloves when I can but when I get near moving machinery they come off.
> ...


Sounds like a garage shop. So if you have the means, insulate the walls since they weren't done. If you can close off the overheads with something more than a tarp to prevent air from passing then you are mostly there. Once you stop the air from freely coming in and out, you can heat it and keep it heated with a reasonable heater. If not, then you will need a big unit and much $$. 

I have 2 heaters for my garage, a torpedo and a contractor's milk can.  With my leaky garage they will warm it. But my main shop is in the basement where it is 56 degrees. I run a small oil filled radiator and close the door to the shop to keep the heat at 68, so the tools don't rust. When it's cold and you touch it, they rust from the instant condensation.


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## BtoVin83 (Jan 7, 2018)

When I worked for my dad in the new shop before heat I would fire up the lathe and run off abut 80 pounds of chips. Then I would rake those out on the floor and stand on them to keep my feet warm.


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## Bob Korves (Jan 7, 2018)

woodchucker said:


> Same here. My snowmobiling boots were felt bootie inside a rubber lower and heavy nylon upper. They were warm and comfortable. I never see those anymore.


The ones with the felt liners are called Pac boots.


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## 7milesup (Jan 7, 2018)

It was -17F here the other day without the windchill.  Got my shop up to 84F (30x32 size) and had to open the door for a while to let the heat out, otherwise I feel like taking a nap.  Gotta love wood heat.


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## pdentrem (Jan 7, 2018)

Insulated walls, separate your feet from concrete floor by rubber mat or even sheet of plywood. My small shop is insulated and with a large 3/4” piece of conveyor belt on the concrete plus Insulated steel garage door. As for heat an infrared heater mounted near the ceiling facing straight down over my usual position heats the machine and me. It has two settings - one tube or both tubes. 400 watt or 800 watt. During this cold spell the 400 watt has been running all the time but usually I have it on a timer. One hour on, one hour off.  When I go there I may or not turn on one or both if required.


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## DAT510 (Jan 7, 2018)

I installed a Modine Hot Dawg 45,000 BTU garage heater, been very happy with it. It's been able to keep my uninsulated 2 1/2 car garage @ 70 degrees even when it was 35-40 degrees outside. 


https://www.supplyhouse.com/Hot-Dawg-Heaters-25173000


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## richl (Jan 7, 2018)

I'm looking at 4' x 6' recycled mats from tractor supply 43.00 per
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/4-ft-x-6-ft-x-3-4-in-thick-rubber-stall-mat?rfk=1
A propane heater, my cousin has one of these in his 2 car garage, at low settings it works very well keeps the temps in the 50s on a very cold -5 day.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...vent-free-radiant-propane-heater?cm_vc=-10005

Rich


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## mikey (Jan 7, 2018)

Hey, you guys could always move to Hawaii. Think about it - 81 degrees right now, everything is blue or green and all you have to do is dodge the occasional hurricane or two. I remember working on an aircraft in a Kansas winter; -40 degrees and we had to stick our hands in a heater hose to get the tools to let go without losing skin. Nope, not for me, I'm staying right here!


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## dlane (Jan 7, 2018)

Wood Stove & work is what Ied do , wood heat rules


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## whitmore (Jan 7, 2018)

The plain-surfaced (not glowing tube) IR heat panels are recommended for an
infrequently used space; you can turn 'em on and get instant sunlight-like heating
on your hands, even  without heating the walls, floor, tools, and air.
Some look like paintings, hung on the wall, but for a shop you want ceiling
mount (and maybe dedicated wiring).
https://www.amazon.com/Marley-CP372...15385235&sr=8-4&keywords=radiant+heater+panel

Prices are all over the map, maybe an architect or HVAC shop will have useful info.

The unvented burners are the worst.  Even if the propane burns clean, it emits
water vapor, and when you turn it off and leave, that will condense on... everything.


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## markba633csi (Jan 7, 2018)

Finger in light socket will warm you up real quick


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## middle.road (Jan 7, 2018)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, saw a couple of types I'd not known about. Budget is too tight currently to upgrade to anything decent. I've got to get a DRO on the mill - I had to suck 'scrapage' on 30 pcs a couple of weeks ago. 

In hindsight I should have described the garage shop better. It's detached, 25x25x8 Ceilings. Wood siding exterior, 1/2" wafer board interior.
Ceiling is totally covered. So much so that I had to cut a section out to access the attic when there was a leak.
They put 6" of insulation up there, but as I found out when I re-wired the panel there's nothing in the walls.
Floor we've got covered. My Better-Half has snagged a bunch of decent (various) kinds of floor covers.  
I've got it so packed now that I can't re-do the walls. A friend offered me a 3t heatpump that was on his 30x50 pole barn that he replaced with a 5t unit but I haven't gotten around to grabbing it. I also don't know how to install it properly. I would need to find some empty wall space and then the electric is a whole 'nother matter.
I had the 'jet engine' propane going when I made the post and when I went out to the shop the tank had emptied and the shop stank from that smell you get when you empty a bottle. I had a 100 pounder that an acquaintance 'borrowed' when his furnace crapped and never returned and I'm making do with 20 pounders. 
I've got the 240v heater mounted 3' from the ceiling and it does a decent job when it's in the 30's - 40's.  (Picture at end of post)
The thing that is getting me is that I can't keep my outer fingers and feet from getting chilled and going numb.
My father had some sort of difficulty with the same issue but alas I didn't pay attention when I should have.
And of course all that metal just loves to soak up the cold. So that gets to you hands and then if it gets too warm it starts to condensate. 
I'm frustrated, trying to make some extra cash and I can't handle the cold as I could when I was a tad younger. 


woodchucker said:


> Same here. My snowmobiling boots were felt bootie inside a rubber lower and heavy nylon upper. They were warm and comfortable. I never see those anymore.





Bob Korves said:


> The ones with the felt liners are called Pac boots.


EXACTLY! can't find them anywhere. Some of those 'UGG' boots look doable with the flat soles for my bad foot, but all I've seen in the stores are for the gals. 

Picked it up for $25 at an estate sale.


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## Bob Korves (Jan 7, 2018)

middle.road said:


> Thanks everyone for the suggestions, saw a couple of types I'd not known about. Budget is too tight currently to upgrade to anything decent. I've got to get a DRO on the mill - I had to suck 'scrapage' on 30 pcs a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> In hindsight I should have described the garage shop better. It's detached, 25x25x8 Ceilings. Wood siding exterior, 1/2" wafer board interior.
> Ceiling is totally covered. So much so that I had to cut a section out to access the attic when there was a leak.
> ...


Un-vented heaters leave water vapor in the building as the main byproduct of combustion.  Every thing in your shop will be rusting with that kind of heater.  I recommend you get something where the combustion gases are vented to the outdoors, or to electric heat, or a heat pump.


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## middle.road (Jan 7, 2018)

Bob Korves said:


> Un-vented heaters leave water vapor in the building as the main byproduct of combustion.  Every thing in your shop will be rusting with that kind of heater.  I recommend you get something where the combustion gases are vented to the outdoors, or to electric heat, or a heat pump.


Heck everything in the shops rusts anyway.  
Seriously though, I've been using it the last couple of weeks to get the temp above 50° and then I let the electric unit try to handle it. 
It's just that when it drops into the 30's with lows around 12° it's tough. 
It's like right now at the computer with the house @66°, there's chill enough that my ring & pinky fingers go numb and start hurting. 
Just before your reply I went and ran them under warm water...  :-(


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## Bob Korves (Jan 8, 2018)

middle.road said:


> It's just that when it drops into the 30's with lows around 12° it's tough.


Rain is forecast for tonight and tomorrow here.  Forecast is for 46F for the low tonight and 54F for the high tomorrow.  I am originally from Minnesota, good place to be from, FAR FROM, especially this time of year.  I tell my friends that we had two seasons in Minnesota, shovel and swat.


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## spumco (Jan 8, 2018)

I'm in NE Ohio and it's currently in the single digits.  So here's my suggestion for a tight budget.

Get a kerosene heater (not the forced air torpedo) and a decent 12" oscillating fan.  Dyna-Glo & Dura Heat make nice ones.  This is the cheapest "temporary" heater to run I can find.  They aren't really expensive, are very clean-burning, and maintenance is minimal.  Replacement wicks are cheap and usually available at Wally-world.

The fan is used to stir the heat off the ceiling.  Aim it up and let it do it's thing and the room will heat heat up faster.

10 gallons of kero is about $30-$35 bucks, and with a 2 gallon tank that gives me 60 hours of run time.  Around $0.50/hour for something that doesn't require installation or electricity, doesn't cause lots of water vapor, and can be used inside the house in case of power failure with no CO issues.

way, WAY cheaper than propane.  If you have NG pipe to the garage, then one of the wall-mounted heaters is nice.  Problem with those is that they cause a lot of moisture in the air and stuff will rust if you get a non-vented model.


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## Nogoingback (Jan 8, 2018)

Dan, I ride motorcycles and for years I've ridden with either an electric vest or more recently a heated jacket when the weather's cold.  There are
now battery powered vests that you might consider.  My wife spends time outside in a barn during the winter and I bought one for her: can't get
the thing away from her.  My gear is made by Gerbing, though there are other brands:

https://www.thewarmingstore.com/hea...MIm53pjPvH2AIVirjACh3DIgjwEAAYASAAEgJwM_D_BwE

If I remember correctly, her's lasts about 4 hours on low, though she has the smaller of 2 available batteries.


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## rcaffin (Jan 8, 2018)

It is interesting to consider the effect of the cold. A micrometer or caliper is made of steel, and is usually calibrated at +20 C. Steel has a coeff of thermal expansion around 12 ppm/C. Take that to -20 C and you have a shift of 40 C. 40 * 12 ppm = 480 ppm or ~0.05 %. This can be significant.

Anyhow, stop wingeing. It was ~45 Centgrade here yesterday. The galvo roof under the sun was way over that.

Cheers
Roger in Oz


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## dlane (Jan 8, 2018)

Pellet stove ( less work )  or a wood stove, nice dry heat


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## Richard White (richardsrelics) (Jan 8, 2018)

I have a natural gas ventless wall heater in my 3rd garage stall, built an uninsulated 2X6 wall covered on the outside only, room is 21X13 and with a ceiling fan I can get it to well over 80 in there with temps outside in the single digits. Me personally I like it about 64-66 degrees. The ceiling fan moves the warm air from the ceiling to the floor, the fan was $30 at Walmart


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## Ray C (Jan 8, 2018)

Hey guys, keep safety in mind...  Keep a carbon monoxide and smoke detector in the garage/shop.  Also, be careful about bulky clothing, especially on your left arm if you're operating lathes.

-Public safety message from Ray...


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## Richard White (richardsrelics) (Jan 8, 2018)

Yup sleeves are for nerds...LOL  I have a detector as well....Now who got my comment, and what show did I reference?


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## hermetic (Jan 8, 2018)

Slightly off topic, but here is a tip for all of you with torpedo type forced air heaters that run on kerosene or diesel. when they get to be a couple of years old the air pump loses efficiency, the fuel pick up  pressure drops, and they start to burn cold, and become smelly and smoky. I had this problem with mine, and fitting new vanes to the air pump did not cure it. In the back of the heater where the air intake filter is, you will see a small plug which is the test point for the air pump. If you remove this plug and connect a low pressure regulated air line to this point, you can adjust the air pressure to obtain the perfect smell and smoke free burn. Beware! they only need between 5 and 9psi, and you can tell when the burn is correct by looking at the hot end, the outer part of the hot dome should be red hot, the centre should be slightly cooler and darker, if the centre is red hot, too much pressure, turn it down! My Master brand Torpedo heater has been running like this since about 1978, and with an annual strip and clean, has required no spare parts, and still runs clean and hot. the pressure air pump is definitely the weak link on these heaters, and looking at a manual for these heaters a few moments ago, they have not really altered the design. If you have one in the back of your shop collecting dust, whilst you shiver, get it out and try this mod, it works! also, do not fail to clean out the fuel pick up filter as this also causes problems, sometimes fitted inside the pick up pipe.


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## Tozguy (Jan 8, 2018)

You have to heat the whole shop to keep people, machines and materials happy and compatible. Investing in insulation and sealing drafts will probably be the least expensive option in the long run, PLUS, it will be more comfortable and pleasant for you. There are cost effective ways to do it. Otherwise you will be heating the outdoors!

Grab that heat pump! Thermopumps are not that expensive to install and will give you A/C in the summer (?). When concentrating on doing good work, I don't like to be at the mercy of the elements. And it becomes more important as I get older.


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## kdecelles (Jan 8, 2018)

Heat is key up here in Canada, routinely -30 . My shop has insulated walls and ceiling and has a natural gas heater mounted to the ceiling You can be as hot as u want

Worst part is the walk between the house and shop


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flynth (Jan 8, 2018)

I second what the poster above me says  worst thing is definitely the walk between the house and the shop in - 30C. 

I'm in a similar situation with my shop as the original poster,  but I have my walls and ceiling filled in with 6 in Rock wool insulation. With - 10C outside it usually takes a whole night for the temperature to drop to +7C after I've heated it to 16C day before. 

Best way to heat an infrequently used space is definitely radiant heat ir heaters. I have few of them (even the glowing types) and they are great. The surrounding air can be cold, but you're warm almost instantly after switching them on. I used a standard electric garage heater before, but I found 2kW unit takes an hour to warm my 21x15ft space. A radiant heat portable 2kW  heater placed 6ft from me makes me warm in 2min set on 50%.

My plan was to install more of those ir heaters on the ceiling in few places, but I found out that it is equally easy to just move the portable one.

I wish I bought them sooner as I would save electricity and I wouldn't have to wait each time for the whole space to warm up. 

Having said that I have to also say that before I bought my heaters I read online that they give some people headaches. I never experienced it so I think it might be related to trying to make the whole shop warm with them and consequently drying the air too much. For people that have sinus issues that may be an instant headache situation so before you buy 10 of them to install in every corner of your shop I suggest to get one portable unit and test. Ones I bought were made in Sweden, for some reason I couldn't buy them locally and I had to order them online. 

I also consideree wood burning stoves (pellet and otherwise) as I basically have free wood on my property, but putting a proper flue in an otherwise unprepared for it timber building is definitely not a trivial task if one wants to use as little space as possible. I would have to put the stove 5ft from each wall taking huge amount of valuable space.


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## 7milesup (Jan 8, 2018)

I agree with tozguy.  You will be much better off in the long run to insulate. Warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. It actually amazes me someone would build a building and sheet the inside but not insulate the walls. 
I have been in aviation my whole life and in every newer hangar i have seen they use IR heaters.  Most efficient and comfortable, especially when you have to raise the door (most of a wall) to get an aircraft in or out.


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## pdentrem (Jan 8, 2018)

Since the walls are finished, sort of, blown in insulation will do the job for the walls!

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Building-Materials-Insulation-Blow-in-Insulation/N-5yc1vZbayp


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## ThunderDog (Jan 8, 2018)

Heck, I'll throw my hat into the ring on this topic.  I insulated my garage with blown-in insulation.  I ended up buying more than needed for the walls so that I could rent the machine for free.  So, the ceiling has the R-38 rolled insulation and a few inches of the blown insulation to boot!  I installed a ductless mini-split on the wall.  Natural gas is not available where I live and propane was just not on my radar at the time, so it's electric.  I wanted AC for the summer and have limited wall space and no floor space, so this setup fit the bill.  It's one of those import brands off of Amazon, but it has served very well.  I purposefully keep it around 58-62 in the winter just to take the chill off. I also keep it cool around 72-75 for the summer.  I could go warmer or colder at the touch of a button, but I also like a low electric bill.


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## middle.road (Jan 8, 2018)

I so wish I had checked the walls before moving all my junque into the garage/shop. That would have been the ideal time to fill them.
Now it is so packed there's no maneuvering room.
Would enjoy having a wood-burner or a pellet stove. Saw a pellet stove in operation a few years back - they're super. 
The 'keep clear' would take up a good chunk of the shop.

Kerosene for some odd reason plays h*ll with my sinuses - irritation to the max. Would be much cheaper to run though.
Miss my radiant propane unit that I had up north. That's one item that I have no idea where it disappeared to.
Bought a Radiant wall mount heater at an estate sale a few years back but it turned out to be for NG and I never figured out how to
re-work it. Now if I did it something would have to go. I have the walls filled/crammed with cabinets and pegboard. 

It would be nice to back a large trailer or box up to the garage and pull out all the 'easy' items, do the walls, re-organize the space efficiently, and re-load. In my mind I go over & over how I'd re-do everything right now.
Was suppose to be over 40° today but that's now been revised down to 37°.
(as the members further north tar & feather me and run me out of town...  )


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## ThunderDog (Jan 8, 2018)

Middle.road, I thought it would be a pain when I blew insulation too.  In reality, it was super easy.  You only need about 6-8" clearance from the ceiling. My cabinets are open back so, that was a plus.  Drill a hole to the size of the nozzle of the machine hose, stick it in, flip the switch on, and let that insulation fill up each cavity.  My dad manned the machine while I climbed on, over, and all around the garage with insulation hose in tow.  It seriously took longer to buy, load, and drive the machine home than it did to finish the job.  A big time saver for me was drilling all the holes at one time the day before.


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## BGHansen (Jan 8, 2018)

My shop is in a 32 x 40 area of a 40 x 96 pole barn.  Have 6" of insulation in the walls and 12" in the ceiling.  My supplemental heat is from a ventless propane 30,000 BTU heater rated to warm 1200 sq. ft.  As mentioned above, by-product of the heat is also moisture in the air, but in the winter the humidity in my shop is about 10%.  I have 3 ceiling fans that run 365/24/7 and keep the air moving.  I Johnson paste wax the cast ion on my woodworking tools and use LPS1 greaseless lubricant on the metal working stuff.  I only turn the heater on when I'm in the shop, so lots of thermo-cycling.  No issues with rust on anything.

That being said, it was -9 F in our town last week.  The propane heater takes about 45 minutes to warm the shop 30 degrees, so stayed inside.  It'd have taken around 2 hrs. just to get to around 40 F.  I end up managing my projects around the weather.

Bruce


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## Cobra (Jan 8, 2018)

middle.road said:


> OK, I'd like to start a thread on staying warm, and also getting the shop warm enough to function in.
> Short of battery powered socks and such, I would appreciate any input.
> I'm living in East TN now - which granted is not 1/10th as difficult as a few clicks further north. I swear your blood thins out over time...
> I'm having trouble keeping my feet and fingers from getting so chilled they hurt. I wear gloves when I can but when I get near moving machinery they come off.
> ...


When we built here in New Brunswick (north of Maine) we were told that 40K btu was good for the 1500 sf space.  I settled on two 75k overhead natural gas forced air units.  I think they have saved us money because the garage stays at about 10C and when you want to go out it only takes minutes to bring it up to room temp


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## magicniner (Jan 8, 2018)

In the garage I started with draught proofing, sealing any gaps in the structure with building foam, adding draught strips to all sides of all doors and insulating the most "lossy" surfaces including the steel doors. 
Then I installed infra red heaters at my benches and bought some portables too so I could heat me rather than heating everything until the environment was warm enough to heat me. 
My workshop has enough insulation to walls and roof that a desktop PC running on a sub-zero night will keep the temperature above 10C


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## 34_40 (Jan 8, 2018)

woodchucker said:


> Same here. My snowmobiling boots were felt bootie inside a rubber lower and heavy nylon upper. They were warm and comfortable. I never see those anymore.




I picked up a pair last year.  Look for Sorel Brand.  Here's a link,  https://www.sorel.com/winter-boots/...=paidsearch&oid=Boots_General&did=Sorel Boots


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## 34_40 (Jan 8, 2018)

Richard White (richardsrelics) said:


> Yup sleeves are for nerds...LOL  I have a detector as well....Now who got my comment, and what show did I reference?



Those silly gold diggers on Gold Rush / Discovery Channel.


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## ch2co (Jan 8, 2018)

I do a fair amount of astronomical viewing at night throughout the year. I need to keep warm.  About 20 years ago, my wife was at a KMart
store when the announced a blue light special in sporting goods for boots. She (not being an out door type of person) checked out the special and picked up 6 pair of weird snowmobile boots for $1.00 a piece. This is one of the best things she ever got me. They look ridiculous, very 70's goofy colors and would make horrible hiking boots, but for standing around in the cold, they are marvelous! Cold garage or shop floors that suck the heat out of your body, no problem, warm feet. Standing around on ice or in snow at sub zero (F) and the tootsies stay warm and pliable. They are padded to the hilt but still permit comfortable waking around while still letting your feet know where they are. These are not high quality brand name boots, and they are all different from each other, but this was unquestionably the best six bucks she ever spent. Makes me think that I might hold hold on to her for a little while. I keep a pair in the shop in the winter since I keep the shop door closed and the heater vent closed in the winter unless I plan on 
working there for long periods. Its nowhere near the 2AM in the snow looking through an eyepiece for hours kind of cold but its still cold. I don't like wearing a parka in the shop so I wear a very warm hodie with the sleves cut off. Warm feet, warm head, the perfect combination.  The parka is left for the outdoors. My mom used to always say, " if your feet are cold, put on a hat, and son of a gun, it works, but those snowmobile boots are priceless.


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## juiceclone (Jan 8, 2018)

U didn't say if u have natural gas heat in the house. Whatever type heat you use in  the house, go and find a, preferably used, small furnace..same type.. U won't need any ductwork, and should be easy to vent/chimney thru roof. Size don't matter much, install a cheap thermostat and it will shut it off fast if it's a big unit.  Oh yeah ...insulate.... costs way less all around   :>)


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## Glenn Brooks (Jan 9, 2018)

I have a similar shop building to yours, except ceiling is 12’ high-basically a two bay detached garage.  In my case, no ceiling. Just open rafters and Sheetrock walls.  I also have/had no insulation, and no heat.  Well, there was a nice big heater hanging from the rafters when we bought the place.  But the oh so erstwhile RE agent and honest seller forgot to mention it  wasn’t hooked up - and that there was no incoming natural gas line leading to the building, or the heater! And the seller took it with him when he moved.  So I lived with the shell for 15 years.  No heat, just layers of sweaters and rugged he man winter work clothes.

Well,  finally decided three years ago to tear out the sheet rock and put insulation in the walls.  Each year I do 1/3rd of the shop.  New insulation. New Sheetrock. And importantly, new wiring with an upgraded panel, upgraded single phase and three phase circuits. Everywhere. Now, This spring, I have only one wall to go. Then maybe I will tackle the ceiling. Or hire some guys to do the heavy lifting for me.

Moral of the story is it worked out for me to do the upgrades in smaller phases. It’s easier and more managble to hang rock, pull wire, tape-mid-paint, etc,  if the extent of the work is broken down into small chunks.  Cost gets spread out over several years also. Might be something to consider. As they say - how old will you be in three years, if you DONT upgrade?

Glenn


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 9, 2018)

I'd go with the insulation first and foremost - blow in for the walls and R13 or 15 batts for the garage door (assuming it's a garage). I did the latter on my 2 car garage when we moved in this summer and it made an instant difference. At least 10-15F cooler in the summer and about the same in the winter. Even the car cooling down is enough to warm up the garage when it's down to zero outside. Cost ~$80 give or take and took a couple of afternoons. I find that a well insulated shop knocks off the temperature extremes. In my case it's enough to do without heating or cooling (so far), in yours it should let you get away with a smaller heater. The smaller temp swings will also reduce the risk of condensation and rust.

another plus if the garage is attached is that it will also reduce the amount of heat leaking out of your house via the garage.


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## Tozguy (Jan 9, 2018)

If your overhead door is a typical garage door with no insulation, just a single layer of metal between you and the outdoors, insulating that door or changing it for an insulated one would be the single best move you could make.


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## hermetic (Jan 9, 2018)

Just another slightly off topic comment, I have a pair of insulated overalls that I picked up in LIDL a couple of years ago for £11-00. They are truly excellent to the point that I usually wear just a shirt and jeans or workpants underneath them, or they get too warm!


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## JohnG (Feb 5, 2018)

This thread has brought out the guys who've come to terms with a cold climate.

Those rubber barn mats from Tractor Supply are great.  They are cheap and rugged and a quick fix for a cold or wet floor.

Several guys mentioned infra red heat in various forms.  I put in one of those propane fired tubes that hangs off the ceiling and love it.  It heats the concrete floor, and the heat just rises very evenly with no cold spots.  It draws in outside air for combustion and vents out the wall, so there is no air interchange in the shop.  I had to give up heating with wood, and this is almost as nice.

An old friend who looked for simple solutions wore wooden shoes in his shop all winter.  He said with thick, wool socks they were warmer, drier, and easier on his legs on cold concrete than any leather or fabric shoes.

I'll be back in my shop this afternoon as soon as I've cleared some snow.  I know my show blower will start right up at 10 below since it is sitting in that warm shop right now.  I just need to dig it out.


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## Fabrickator (Feb 5, 2018)

Thanks for all of the tips.  My feet and always cold, even in SoCal on a nice day (right now).  I plan on moving up to NorCal once I find what I'm looking for, and a safe, supplemental heater will be a must.


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## Uncle Buck (Feb 5, 2018)

I use a 70K BTU torpedo heater in my 2 car shop. I only burn K1 (white kerosene) virtually no smell, little fumes, and I have never experienced all the rust that others speak of. No rust on my mics or any other machinist measuring tools, no rust on my lathe bed rails, none on my little mill, or really anything else. The torpedo roars like a freight train but I could care less as along it warms things up. A forced air furnace would be nice I will agree but it would cost a lot more and require more space than I am willing to give up for it. If I was a retired guy spending every day of the winter in my shop the torpedo would not be a cost friendly option and I would need to find something different. But since I only have a little time now and then and usually only on the weekends the torpedo suits me fine. After running mine for a couple of hours I can work in a t shirt out there.

K1 (white kerosene) is what makes the big difference. Any other fuel other than K1 or propane is just nasty.


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## Uncle Buck (Feb 5, 2018)

No that is snow right there!


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## ch2co (Feb 5, 2018)

I sure wish that we had that much snow on the ground. We have had one of the driest winters I can remember. One walk shoveling
of about 4-6" doesn't amount to much, especially when you are depending on snow melt for your water supply.

Grumpy in Colorado


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## higgite (Feb 5, 2018)

> *Suggestions for staying warm in da Shop?*


.

Florida. 

Tom


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## hermetic (Feb 6, 2018)

I am using my torpedo heater at the moment, running on road legal Diesel (DERV), because it is actually cheaper than Kerosene in the UK! We are paying $10.15 for 4 litres of Kerosene (1 us gallon =3.785 litre) Yes folks, in the UK Kerosene is more expensive than Petrol (gas)!


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