# Er 40 chuck



## bosephus (Sep 26, 2014)

Now you all will have to bear with me threw this project.
It is going to be slow going ..i have the material and the plans on hand to build this . 
But i am lacking a tool to do the interal threading   nor do i have an er 40 collet so  this is going to be a stop and go project .

But anyhoo .. the first step is to make a copy of my spindle .
I started with a short chunk of 2inch 6061 about 4 inches or so long a buddy was kind enough to supply .

I have spent about 3 hours being as precise as i possibly can ..
In the pic .. sorry about the poor quality .. it is ready to be threaded .
I am confident that i am within .0005 on all my dimensions .
Lets hope i dont bungle the threads 

Second poor pic is the piece of 4140 i scored on ebay for a measly $18 shipped .. it will supply my chuck and collet nut .and maybe enough left for another project .

I may be trying a project higher then my pay grade with this .
But i am not going to get in any hurry ...so i will have plenty of time to measure thrice and cut once


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## darkzero (Sep 26, 2014)

Can't wait to see what you come up with.

So you will be making the collet nut & eccentric ring inside it also?


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## LEEQ (Sep 26, 2014)

I was just wondering the same thing. You can buy the nuts separate. Might be worth looking into.


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## bosephus (Sep 27, 2014)

I do plan on making the entire chuck . I got the plans   from another helpful member who copied them from the projects in metal site for me .

My first dilemma is going to be the internal threading .
I need to come up with a tool to do it , my only boring bar is going to be a tiny bit to short . 
So i need to ponder a solution for that .

If i get the chuck finished before thanksgiving ill be happy .

I still have not figured out exactly what made me decide to do this . 
I dont particulary need a collet chuck .. but wants and needs rarely coincide . 
Its bright n shiny and cool .. so i want one 

I did think about just buying the nut , but wheres the fun in that .
The more of it i do myself .. the more i will learn


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## Rick Leslie (Sep 27, 2014)

I have the same project slated for my Southbend one day so I'm following.


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## Whyemier (Sep 27, 2014)

bosephus said:


> Lets hope i dont bungle the threads  .
> 
> I may be trying a project higher then my pay grade with this .
> But i am not going to get in any hurry ...so i will have plenty of time to measure thrice and cut 0nce



Don't worry about being above your 'pay' grade and abilities.  Do the best you can and you'll learn something and have something to show for it more than likely.:allgood:

Take a deep breath and take the plunge. Its what I usually do and more often than not its successful, though sometimes I just learn something.:laughinghard:


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## bosephus (Sep 27, 2014)

Threaded the spindle copy .... threads came out nice enough . No wobble and smooth. 

It fits perfectly ... spindle sleeve registers my back plate perfectly .

A few deep breaths .. and if im feeling froggy after dinner . I may just clean up the aluminum chips and start roughing in the chuck


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## darkzero (Sep 27, 2014)

Just curious, why did you mimic the spindle thread to make the collet chuck? The collet chuck would run truer if you machined it directly mounted on the actual spindle ,well unless you never remove/move your duplicate spindle from the chuck during the entire process of making the collet chuck.

Looking good so far!


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## SG51Buss (Sep 27, 2014)

I'm going to follow this thread as well.
I'm in the final stage of my ER-32 retrofit project, regrinding the collets for perfect fit:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...-ER-32-collet-chuck-to-an-Atlas-Craftsman-618

I don't have the changegear option for metric threads for the collet nut, so this 'kit' saved me a lot of time.  Some ER collet chuck projects I've seen use an english 12 TPI (or whereabouts) thread for the homemade collet nut, which solves the metric thread problem, but leaves you with a non-standard unique collet nut system, which would require you to make your own again if necessary.  What are your plans here?


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## bosephus (Sep 27, 2014)

Dark zero 

The spindle copy is so that when i cut the register ( sleeve ? ) and threads to mate the chuck to the spindle i have a plug guage to test fit it to my spindle .

Sg51bus
I have not looked yet to see what the standard thread pitch is for the collet nut .
But as long as it is a thread i can cut thats what ill go with 
If i can not cut it .. ill improvise with something close .

I chucked up my stock .. turns out i got more 4140 then i was supposed to .. 3.185 imstead of 3 inches .. so i roughed enough for the chuck down to 3inches .
Sadly my little 10 x 22 isnt up to the task of parting the blank .
So im going to find a kind soul with a saw to cut it  ... i made it about a half inch in and when i extended my cuttoff tool terrible chatter ensued .


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## SG51Buss (Sep 28, 2014)

Not sure if you have this, so I'll attach it anyway.  Looks like the ER-40 collet chuck uses an M50 x 1.5mm thread for the collet nut.  That's very close to a 2" x 16 TPI.  Your 2" stock is just the right size for the chuck, but you'll need something larger for the nut.

On my chuck, there's an enlarged ring for the tommybar holes.  Assuming you have a 1.5" x 8 TPI spindle, leaving a 1/4" wall thickness to the 2" OD collet chuck, how do you plan to tighten it to your spindle?


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## bosephus (Sep 28, 2014)

Sg51buss 

The stock  i am using for the chuck is 3 inch dia .
So it is plenty big to make the nut out of as well . I wont mess with the outside dia of the chuck until the very end .. then i will most likely match it to the outside dimensions of the collet nut ... and ill just drill a couple holes for a tommy bar wall thickness will be more then adequite


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## bosephus (Sep 29, 2014)

Id like to say i made a whole bunch of progress today ... but nope not much at all .

I did get my blank sawn .. and a hole poked into it to get a boring bar in .
My little boring bar isnt going to be good for much other then roughing things in .. just to small and flexible .
So tomarow ill get the spindle end roughed in and set it aside untill i get some funds for a decent boring bar and a internal threading tool


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## bosephus (Oct 14, 2014)

woo hoo progress is going to be made finally .

i ordered a new boring bar and threading tool from mesa tools to do my internal threads ... should be here tomorrow or the day after .
so i decided get set up and ready for them . 

i got the stock back in the 4 jaw and went ahead and faced it off and cut the shoulder for the little keeper thingies that keep the chuck from spinning off in reverse .

isnt much progress .. but soon as my tools show up i plan on getting it fit to my spindle .


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## bosephus (Oct 16, 2014)

gosh what fun it is to have proper tools .... new tools showed up , i could not be more pleased with them . 

made some actual progress with this today , i got the spindle end bored out and threaded and , 


 LOOK MA NO MORE CHUCK , threaded right on the spindle , register is very snug . i almost made the mistake of spinning it on tight .. but luckily i remembered i didn't have any means to loosen it yet .






 one final flaw to my plans on finishing this .. i need an er40 collet to both make the nut and finish the chuck ... funds wont permit buying a set of collets for awhile 
but if anyone has an orphan er40 sitting around id be happy buy it from you .


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## Mark_f (Oct 16, 2014)

This should be interesting. I am going to follow this as one day I would like to make a collet chuck for my  S B 9 lathe also. I plan on making everything but the collets and using american threads. Yours looks great so far. keep up the nice work.

Mark


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## kd4gij (Oct 16, 2014)

Here is the one I made for my lathe. I used a standerd er40 nut for mine.


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## bosephus (Oct 20, 2014)

well ... its now scrap metal .

 decided to go ahead and thread it for the collet nut . things was going along great . untill  my brain slipped a cog and  i disengaged the half nut halfway threw the threading ... big no no on a g0602 and metric threads . 
i did my best to try and re time everything ... but it didnt pan out  .. so scrap metal


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## Rbeckett (Oct 20, 2014)

Ouch, that hurts.  Well you did learn something along the way that will make the second one the final one so it isn't really a loss, it was just practice for the final piece.

Bob


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## Terrywerm (Oct 20, 2014)

OUCH!!!    Sorry to hear about that!  Give it a go a second time and it will come out perfect, watch and see!


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## chuckorlando (Oct 20, 2014)

Is there no way to just thread to a small od and matting id thread? I assume we are talking the for the collet nut


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## bosephus (Oct 20, 2014)

well mistakes happen ... live and learn . 

i could turn it down a little and make it a non standard size i think  ... but i did want to make it to fit a standard collet nut . 

i have enough left of the origonal stock to try again , but there wont be enough to make a nut as well .. im going to have to ponder this for a bit an make up my mind what direction to go .
most likely ill just turn it down a smidge and use a standard thread if there is enough material to work with


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## kd4gij (Oct 20, 2014)

You can get an er40 collet nut on ebay. That is what I did.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ER40-ER-40-...7?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item460e9430c5

 I found a used one for about half that.


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## SG51Buss (Oct 21, 2014)

bosephus said:


> .. im going to have to ponder this for a bit an make up my mind what direction to go ...



I think you can save it.  Please bear in mind that I'm thinking 'Atlas' here, and the ease of setting up change gears, and especially the ease of engaging/disengaging the spindle gear.

I'm thinking that:  If you haven't disturbed the threading/change gears, and the toolpost positioning, that all the possible combinations of thread re-engagement matching is the same as the tooth count of the spindle gear, no matter how the leadscrew is engaged.

If you were to:
Back-out the cross-slide a little, enuff to just clear the threads.
Move the carriage to the threaded area.
Re-engage the leadscrew.
Disengage the spindle gear from the changegear.
Slowly turn the chuck 'till the workpiece thread aligns with the cutting tool.
Re-engage the spindle gear.
Rotate the chuck by hand to remove all slack in the system.
Advance the crossfeed to check tool fit in the old threads.
Closely examine the tool/thread alignment.
Disengage the spindle gear, rotate chuck one tooth at-a-time, re-engage spindle gear.
Re-examine, re-index by one tooth until aligned.

Since the tool must move by one thread spacing for each rotation of the chuck, the total combination of possible tool positions is limited by the spindle gear tooth count.

Of course, this assumes that the only change to the setup was inadvertently disengaging the leadscrew.

Please tell me this is wrong...


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## bosephus (Oct 21, 2014)

sg51buss 

i dont think you are wrong ... matter of fact that is pretty nearly exactly what i did to get the tool back into proper position . 
the second mistake came when i did not stop take a deep breath and go back into the house and get my reading spectacles ... what i thought was lined up properly with the threads was just a smidge out .
and thinking i had it right ... i made what should have been a repeat of my last cut , and wound up with two sets of threads . 

 lesson learned .. and excepting a few hours of work a cheap lesson at that ... the 4140 only cost $18 or so shipped i think . 
and i have enough left to make another attempt . 

i did do some figuring , if i clean up what i have threaded  things will be getting a bit thin for my tastes for er40 collets at least. 
but ... i have two options ...
1, i can either salvage enough material out of it to make my nut with , and restart with my left over chunk 

or 2, i can oil it up set it aside and save it in case i ever run into a need to adapt something else to my spindle . and just buy a collet nut .

im leaning towards the second option ... just so i can salvage a few hours of my work


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## chuckorlando (Oct 21, 2014)

Wiil if it's any help I save everything. If it's bigger then 1x1x.25, I have to keep that just incase ahaha. If it was me and I had enough to redo it, and was not comfy with trying to salvage what I had, I would just start over.


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## SG51Buss (Oct 21, 2014)

bosephus said:


> ... i did not stop take a deep breath and go back into the house and get my reading spectacles ... .



Oh no!  Yeah, been there, done that.  I now keep an Optivisor near the machine, wear it all the time, as in my avatar.  Can't do anything without it now...



bosephus said:


> ... two options ...
> 2, i can oil it up set it aside and save it in case i ever run into a need to adapt something else to my spindle ...



I like option 2.  I also have a couple of 'spindle ready' blanks for future projects.  If you think about it, it may have been best if the tommybar holes were drilled prior to the collet thread attempt, as torque fitting of the fixture to the spindle would give better repeatable accuracy.

Speaking of which, taking a step back, did you run a DTI against the mount registration face of your spindle?

Long ago, I found a tiny 0.0002" runout on mine.  Did a cleanup skim on it, so that all future spindle attachments would run square, and future face cleanups on those attachments would keep things running true...


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## bosephus (Oct 21, 2014)

i think i am going with option two , im sure that in the future i will need to adapt something else to my spindle . 

chuckorlando 
im the same way , i throw out nothing that may be useful , ive been know to tear apart broken stuff to save nuts and bolts and other useful stuff .

sg51buss 

tommy bar holes , i was going to drill them before attempting the threads for the nut , but i decided to cheat i did drill and tap the holes for the retainers so i used a longer bolt in those holes to tighten the chuck up on my spindle  as i wasnt 100% sure of where i wanted to put the tommy bar holes , now i am glad i waited . 
i did set an indicater against the registration face , luckily i couldnt measure any run out at all ., i must have done something right in my set up as when i did spin it on my spindle i didnt get any run out on the other end either .... even a blind squirrel gets a nut every now and then . 

i think today is going to be a clean up day , and tomorrow i will take a deep breath and start over with my left over piece .


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## SG51Buss (Oct 21, 2014)

One last comment (for now, anyway).  While researching the ER specs, I came across the recommended torque specs for the collet nut, as required to get the tool grip strength, and more importantly, the advertised collet accuracy.

Anywhere from 200 to 300 ft-lbs!!!

Holy elbow pop!  I have absolutely no intention to go that tight!  I just want the collet for workholding, and would like to stay below 10 ft-lbs.

That's why I'm currently fussing over my collet setup, and regrinding my collets.  To try to get the accuracy without all that torque...


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## bosephus (Oct 21, 2014)

i had those same concerns .. until i learned that those very high torque specs are for for hardened ground and polished materials . 
from what i have learned .. most all materials us hobbiests will be using anywhere from 20-50 ft lbs will be way more then enough torgue to secure our work


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## kd4gij (Oct 21, 2014)

I pick up a thread alittle differnt. With the threading tool back out of the threads move the carriage about an inch back from the part. turn lathe on and engage halfnuts and turn the lathe off when the tool gets to the threads about 2 or 3 threads in. Now wind the cross slide in to the threads . now losed the tool bit and slide it into the thread and squair it up and hand tighten back out and tighten in up . wind back in and check when you are happy with the alinement back the cross out just past the threads and turn lathe on and watch how it is tracking. Reverse the lathe back past the part and runn anouther air pass watching the tracking. When avary thing looks good start your threading feeding with the cross slide only do not use the compound. With a little practice you will get it.


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## bosephus (Nov 8, 2014)

a bit of an update . 

i am finaly over my minor misshap . i have another piece of 4140 mounted on my spindle again . the spindle side of the chuck is finished , the register is a bit snugger then anticipated  i may take it back off and put it back in the chuck to give it a quick polish . 

i also broke down and bought a collet nut . i do not have quite enough material to make one so it can wait until i happen across something suitable.

tonight after dinner i will take some pics and get it threaded for the collet nut hopefully without any more mishaps .


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## bosephus (Nov 9, 2014)

i forgot to take pics as i was working , but the nut is on and i am pleased with the fit . 
i did have a minor change of plans as i went . i had  planned on facing off another .125 from the part . but i decided to just square the end up and leave the little bit of extra length as a cushion ,if i screw up the taper i can just shorten it up a bit and give her another try .

once i get the taper finished and the collet fitted properly i will finish the outside  of the chuck , i doubt i do much beyond losing the sharp corners .


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## SG51Buss (Nov 10, 2014)

bosephus said:


> ...i had  planned on facing off another .125 from the part . but i decided to just square the end up and leave the little bit of extra length as a cushion ,if i screw up the taper i can just shorten it up a bit and give her another try ...



Good planning.  That taper is about a one-in-seven, which means that for every 0.001" recut to adjust the taper, you loose 0.007" of depth...


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## Procule (Oct 21, 2020)

Do you mind sharing the plans with me. Projectsinmetal site has been down for some years now.
Thanks


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## Cooter Brown (Oct 21, 2020)

Procule said:


> Do you mind sharing the plans with me. Projectsinmetal site has been down for some years now.
> Thanks



you are kinda late to this thread its from 2014.....lol


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## Procule (Oct 21, 2020)

Very late..... and the mirrored website doesnt have pictures or links. Hope some one on here does!
Thanks


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## Cooter Brown (Oct 22, 2020)

Procule said:


> Very late..... and the mirrored website doesnt have pictures or links. Hope some one on here does!
> Thanks



Welcome to the Forum..... If you have a question just make a new thread everyone here will be very happy to help you....


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## mickri (Oct 22, 2020)

Welcome to the forum.

Halligan142 has a 4 part you tube video on how to make one of these.   Goes thru every step of the process to make one.  I made one for my ER32 collets.  Not hard.  Have to be able to cut a 1.5mm metric thread.


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