# 935 floor base



## petertha (Jun 21, 2018)

I'm considering this machine. My shop (garage) floor has a bit of grade/slope so my current (RF-45 type) mill required those rubber leveling pads under the stand. But the 935 is a heavier machine. Can I still use pads like this in the existing holes of the casting base, or is the machine weight getting up there & it needs to be supported with a rigid base & somehow grouted or shimmed? I noticed some of you have the mill sitting on a welded base. Is this more for increasing the table work height or related to how it rests on the floor? I'll have to measure my actual ceiling height but guessing  I don't have a ton of excess headroom. hence the questions.


----------



## Swerdk (Jun 21, 2018)

I did a welded base with metal leveling feet for height ( machine is short - I am 6 ft) and for Unleveled surface. It works great. At work now so can’t post pics 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## petertha (Jun 21, 2018)

Thanks. That was my other question. Do average folks find the existing table height a bit on low side or OK? I'm 5'-10.


----------



## Kiwi Canuck (Jun 21, 2018)

The PM935 is a bit low, I'm 6'2" and need to raise it 6" minimum. You may find the height OK as is, but 2 - 3" lift would be better.

The base is hollow underneath, the bolt holes are only in the top part of the casting, so you will need a base that you place the mill onto and mount leveling feet to. 

David.


----------



## petertha (Jun 21, 2018)

Ah. That probably explains the stepped base configuration I think I'm seeing here.


----------



## NortonDommi (Jun 21, 2018)

I used some of these on both my Mill/Drill and Lathe with 16 mm Galvanised Bolts and they work great, the cost was within budget as well. It is mid Winter and after a couple of weeks of torrential rain I had a flood,(1"),through the garage, so glad everything was up off the floor, made clean-up a lot easier.


----------



## davidpbest (Jun 21, 2018)

Here is what I did with my PM935 that arrived last week.   I wanted it up on leveling feet and to increase the height of the machine off the floor just enough that my pallet jack forks would clear going under the mill from the side (forks are 21" wide, 3.5" tall, the cutout is 24", but I needed another 1.5 inches of height for them to clear).  

I started with two pieces of 1/4" thick 3x4 angle, 26" long, clipped off the 3" side corners at 45-degrees, flap-disc'd off the mill scale and radiused the corners and eased all the edges.











I ordered 3" diameter leveling feet from McMaster 6111K247 - could have gotten away with the 2" high versions instead of the 4" versions I ordered.  These feet are 3/4-10 thread, come with a locknut, but no washers or other nuts (which I ordered separately). 






I decided to use 5/8" AllThread to attach the angle plates to the mill through the holes in the base of the PM935, and set the leveling feet outside the base of the machine to improve stability.   10" long all thread into tapped 5/8 holes (which are 417mm apart CL-to-CL), the leveling feet were placed 60mm in from the end of the angle brackets: 






After drilling, I primed and painted the angle brackets:






After two coats, and installation on the PM935, this is what the finished platform looks like.   The 5/8 AllThread fits the 3/4" holes in the machine base just fine.   Opposing jamb nuts were used to captivate and secure the 5/8” AllThread to the angle.   I will ended up trimming off the tops of those and adding acorn nuts to leave a no-snag top on both the 5/8” AllThread and the leveling feet mounting studs once everything else was settled. 
















After cutting the threaded studs and adding acorn nuts is shown here.   






Since the floor here is 1.25" T&G commercial decking plywood on stringers, my plan is to drill out 4" diameter holes in the floor and put in 4" diameter solid aluminum round bar stand-offs that will go down to the concrete floor below, turned to match the height of the floor.   I'll post on that once finished.  And it's also time to re-paint the floor, obviously.

Hope this helps.


----------



## davidpbest (Jun 21, 2018)

Oh, and if you like the pucker factor associated with rigging a machine into an elevator shaft, here is what I did yesterday:   



















More to come . . .


----------



## petertha (Jun 21, 2018)

Some good ideas here, glad I asked.

David, does the 5" gap to accommodate the forks correspond to under the casting, or do you mean you would jack the legs so they go under the steel frame? Anyway, that seems like a very smart way to get in & out on the floor without overhead equipment.

ps - Wow. That is one heck of rigging thread-the-needle job. Now I feel kind of silly worrying about how to roll mine in & out of the double wide garage door
pss - I seem to recall you had an (PM version) RF-45 & were about to commence your patented overclocking & soup-up routine like the lathe. Did you opt for this mill instead or did I miss the build?


----------



## Kiwi Canuck (Jun 21, 2018)

David, nice to see you have received your PM935 and looking forward to seeing your build thread.


----------



## davidpbest (Jun 21, 2018)

petertha said:


> Some good ideas here, glad I asked.
> 
> David, does the 5" gap to accommodate the forks correspond to under the casting, or do you mean you would jack the legs so they go under the steel frame? Anyway, that seems like a very smart way to get in & out on the floor without overhead equipment.
> 
> ...



I just needed to be able to get under the mill from the side with the pallet forks.   The base casting reliefs on the side of the PM935 base are 24" wide and about 2" tall, and I needed a 3.5" gap to get under there.   Once I get the floor platforms installed, and the leveling feet adjusted, I will have the necessary space to come under the machine from the side just fine.    I have 83" ceiling height, so I can't go too much more since the mill itself is 77" for without the leveling platform (it's the standard pulley drive system, not the variable reeves drive version).   

The PM935 replaced my Rong Fu 45 which I've had for 15 years and has served me well.   My RF45 was the original from Taiwan, with 2-speed motor and power downfeed, and was purchased by a friend in Hawaii - we got that out of the shop yesterday also, and crated for shipment using the crating materials from the PM935.   The forklift was the challenge, because it left only 3mm clearance coming through the door to the basement shaft entrance.   We ended up having to hack the forklift, taking off the safety basket at front and turning over the forks.   And it was 98 degrees here yesterday.   But this wasn't my first rodeo getting heavy equipment into that basement shop:   https://flic.kr/s/aHsjH1qkZP

I debated which way to go with the mill upgrade for over a year.   I was tempted to get a Tormach 770M, but after using one at John Saunder's shop I wasn't convinced I could do conventional manual milling with it easily, and would thus become a slave to 3D modeling on the computer for every single thing I needed to make.   I don't do much metal fab production - maybe 3-4 units of anything I make at the most.   I'm really a woodworker who makes specialized accessories for woodworking equipment (like this) - not a conventional machinist shop.  So I decided against a CNC mill to replace the RF45.   I also have space constraints that would make a CNC machine with full enclosure pretty impractical.  

The PM935 takes up almost no additional floor space compared to my RF45 on it's stand.   But what it will give me is a real knee (I got so tired of cranking the head on the RF45 up/down), and power feeds on the X, Y and Z.   Plus the increase in rigidity, tilt/nod head, increased Y axis travel etc.   This far, I'm REALLY impressed with the quality of the PM935.

I do plan a full custom edition of this PM935, maybe not quite as elaborate as the PM1340 lathe, but similar in some respects.   A new electronics package with VFD controls, auto-reverse, e-stop, coolant control, tach, ring light is already in the works, and I'm waiting on the Newall 3-axis DP700 DRO with 5um microsyn scales to arrive from the UK.   I already have the Align feeders for all three axis, a Mitutoyo scale kit for the quill, and will probably order a Maxi-torque PDB next week.   Stay tuned.    LOL


----------



## Clock work (Jun 22, 2018)

I've got about 8" clearance to the ceiling on mine which I intend to use about 7.5" of (no problem with rotation given my joist positioning) but let me say this about leveling screws.. Don't. They extend from the threaded holes near the top surface of the base which is a LONG skinny lever and results in significant instability. Just FYI in case you were thinking of it. I'll do it properly once my welding sucks less. I positioned my light on the ram instead of the base... quite happy. I like my VFD controller on the same arm as the DRO. I made the connections from the VFD electrical box which I mounted on the back of the mill stand to both the motor and to the mains feed extra long so I have the ability to set it on the work bench about 4' to the left of the table if I have to work on it live. Personally, I need to take a couple of hours and clean up the slots in the table as they were not uniform across their lengths. I had a wide, med and narrow slot. It wasn't the metal (mostly).. it was the coating. Good luck.


__
		https://flic.kr/p/21yvvpu


----------



## Duker (Jun 23, 2018)

I like David’s design and if I had a pallet jack at the time I would have built something similar. I needed mine to be mobile so I welded up a mobile base with Albion casters and leveling feet that I could lock down quickly with an impact gun. The base is very solid, makes moving the mill a breeze and I got the added benefit of a “foot rest” when using a stool for long milling operations. It also raised the height to a much more comfortable level. 










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## TerryH (Jun 23, 2018)

Duker said:


> I like David’s design and if I had a pallet jack at the time I would have built something similar. I needed mine to be mobile so I welded up a mobile base with Albion casters and leveling feet that I could lock down quickly with an impact gun. The base is very solid, makes moving the mill a breeze and I got the added benefit of a “foot rest” when using a stool for long milling operations. It also raised the height to a much more comfortable level.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nice work as usual bro. Love that base.


----------



## Duker (Jun 23, 2018)

TerryH said:


> Duker said:
> 
> 
> > I like David’s design and if I had a pallet jack at the time I would have built something similar. I needed mine to be mobile so I welded up a mobile base with Albion casters and leveling feet that I could lock down quickly with an impact gun. The base is very solid, makes moving the mill a breeze and I got the added benefit of a “foot rest” when using a stool for long milling operations. It also raised the height to a much more comfortable level.
> ...



Thanks Terry!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## petertha (Jun 23, 2018)

I'm looking for the min/max table dimension in the PM manual relative to casting base & don't see it. They show the other top view dimensions with extended table XY & ram (very handy!). Anybody know?


----------



## davidpbest (Jun 23, 2018)

Floor to top of XY table surface is 30" with the knee fully lowered, 46" with the knee fully raised.   And with the knee fully raised, the gap between the spindle nose and the table is 3/4".   So a typical working height with a vise is probably 42" above the floor.   These assume the machine base is flat to the floor and not up on some kind of stand.


----------



## davidpbest (Jun 23, 2018)

Brief update on the PM935 leveling feet saga.   Added the aluminum riser blocks that transfer the leveling feet load down to the concrete floor below the plywood flooring yesterday, and leveled her up.  



























And I'll take this as "good enough" for level:











Oh, and I've decided to repaint the mill.   They build nice machines in Taiwan, but the paint jobs - not so much.


----------



## wrmiller (Jun 24, 2018)

I wish my 935 and 1340 were black, like my old Charter Oak. Loved the look, and it didn't show dirt!


----------



## ashtrain (Jun 24, 2018)

Hi I have been lurking heavily for the past couple years;  I have a 935 tv coming in a couple of weeks and am looking at whether I need a base for it.
 We have a dry concrete floor basement so I have no problem with sitting it there.  However I am getting the vibes that the work envelope is a little low for a 6 footer (me).  I like the look of both David's and Dukers solutions.  I am thinking, I should work with the machine for a while and see if more height would be desirable then take some action.  Duker - do you have any specs or drawings for your moveable base?  Sorry for hijacking the thread.  Thanks for all the info.
talk soon
Dick w


----------



## davidpbest (Jun 24, 2018)

ashtrain said:


> Hi I have been lurking heavily for the past couple years;  I have a 935 tv coming in a couple of weeks and am looking at whether I need a base for it.
> We have a dry concrete floor basement so I have no problem with sitting it there.  However I am getting the vibes that the work envelope is a little low for a 6 footer (me).  I like the look of both David's and Dukers solutions.  I am thinking, I should work with the machine for a while and see if more height would be desirable then take some action.  Duker - do you have any specs or drawings for your moveable base?  Sorry for hijacking the thread.  Thanks for all the info.
> talk soon
> Dick w



Dick,  IMO, your first decision is whether you want the mill on some kind of mobility base with wheels.    If you want/need that, then a full frame like Dukers is in order.   If the machine is going to be stationary, then all you really need is leveling feet and welded frame is unnecessary and might become a trip hazard depending on placement, size, etc.   With just leveling feet, something more simple (like mine LOL) is sufficient.   The base of the machine is pretty narrow, which is a good thing in general, but to improve stability, I recommend widening the stance as it rests on the floor if you're going to put it up on levelers or wheels or both.   The top couple inches of the 935 machine base is drilled and tapped 3/4-10, but I don't recommend putting the leveling feet in those locations because at least 7" of the threaded rod will be unsupported because the base is hollow in those areas - kinda like being on stilts.   Hope this helps, good luck with the new machine.


----------



## ptrotter (Jun 24, 2018)

David


davidpbest said:


> I just needed to be able to get under the mill from the side with the pallet forks.   The base casting reliefs on the side of the PM935 base are 24" wide and about 2" tall, and I needed a 3.5" gap to get under there.   Once I get the floor platforms installed, and the leveling feet adjusted, I will have the necessary space to come under the machine from the side just fine.    I have 83" ceiling height, so I can't go too much more since the mill itself is 77" for without the leveling platform (it's the standard pulley drive system, not the variable reeves drive version).
> 
> The PM935 replaced my Rong Fu 45 which I've had for 15 years and has served me well.   My RF45 was the original from Taiwan, with 2-speed motor and power downfeed, and was purchased by a friend in Hawaii - we got that out of the shop yesterday also, and crated for shipment using the crating materials from the PM935.   The forklift was the challenge, because it left only 3mm clearance coming through the door to the basement shaft entrance.   We ended up having to hack the forklift, taking off the safety basket at front and turning over the forks.   And it was 98 degrees here yesterday.   But this wasn't my first rodeo getting heavy equipment into that basement shop:   https://flic.kr/s/aHsjH1qkZP
> 
> ...





David,

Please don't do such a spectacular job customizing your PM935 and documenting the process as you did with your PM-1340GT.  I spent far too many hours studying your write up and photographs, and as I am contemplating a PM-935TS in the future, I may end up doing so again.  Seriously though, I truly enjoy following your work and have learned much from it.  Between you, mksj and a few others on this site I have seen some truly great work and have been able to move along on mine nicely.


----------



## Clock work (Jun 25, 2018)

davidpbest said:


> The top couple inches of the 935 machine base is drilled and tapped 3/4-10, but I don't recommend putting the leveling feet in those locations because at least 7" of the threaded rod will be unsupported because the base is hollow in those areas - kinda like being on stilts.



I stupidly didi that... It was like watching a boat tied to a dock... gently swaying back and forth. In the wind. I ended up only using only a single rod of the 4 I put in to stop rocking on the imperfect floor while preserving as much contact with the base as possible. The stilt effect is weak in that situation. 

CW


----------



## Clock work (Jun 25, 2018)

davidpbest said:


>



David... is that hatchway with the stairs removed or an actual elevator shaft? I have entertained the idea of putting a 2-3k# hydraulic lift and easily removable stairs in my own hatchway to reduce the drama overtime I buy something and to bring motorcycles down to work on in a warmer space in the winter.


__
		https://flic.kr/p/TngP8z

CW


----------



## davidpbest (Jun 25, 2018)

CW, that basement entrance is nothing more than a concrete box (with massive heel/toe retaining wall footings required by the city).   There are no stairs in it, and it's used solely for the purpose of getting machinery and finished woodworking projects in or out of the basement.   I have a second basement entrance with stairs for human traffic, but it's too narrow to use as equipment egress.   

When I bought the house in 2011 and started exploring alternatives, I was initially thinking I'd put in a small freight elevator, then the city stuck it's nose into the project and insisted that if I did that, it would need an elevator license and yearly inspections, and insurance premiums doubled, etc. So I just left it an open box and provisioned the garage such that I could get to it with a forklift.   I have occasionally pondered the idea of adding a jib crane at ground level next to the opening, but so far haven't felt the need.    This is pretty much what it looks like from the basement: 






If you're interested, here is the unfinished basement to shop conversion saga:  https://flic.kr/s/aHsjH1qkZP


----------



## Clock work (Jun 25, 2018)

davidpbest said:


> CW, that basement entrance is nothing more than a concrete box (with massive heel/toe retaining wall footings required by the city).   There are no stairs in it, and it's used solely for the purpose of getting machinery and finished woodworking projects in or out of the basement.   I have a second basement entrance with stairs for human traffic, but it's too narrow to use as equipment egress.
> 
> When I bought the house in 2011 and started exploring alternatives, I was initially thinking I'd put in a small freight elevator, then the city stuck it's nose into the project and insisted that if I did that, it would need an elevator license and yearly inspections, and insurance premiums doubled, etc. So I just left it an open box and provisioned the garage such that I could get to it with a forklift.   I have occasionally pondered the idea of adding a jib crane at ground level next to the opening, but so far haven't felt the need.    This is pretty much what it looks like from the basement:
> 
> If you're interested, here is the unfinished basement to shop conversion saga:  https://flic.kr/s/aHsjH1qkZP



Very nice work David... it's a pity about the city and insurance. Mine said if I ran a buried electrical line out to my shed that it'd raise my taxes so I put a 3 prong on it and it's just another appliance plugged into an outside outlet. They wanted to raise our taxes for a deck, so I went the route of a parade float shaped like deck which I could park right next to my house. Never finished that one There's actually a raised computer floor in another part of the basement we don't let the town in to which was there from a full mill-rack time-share computer with a floor-standing computer and 3 monitors I had down there in 1980 when it was my parents house. I have no respect for our town government.. a viscous tornado crawled across my old neighborhood requiring so many to rebuild. They didn't lose a beat and declared that with all the trees down, it's now a "scenic view area" because now there's nothing but sky over there and you can see the mountain. Anyway if my lift is removable and the stairs are, I think I can avoid their helpful intrusions. I'm going to look much more carefully at the story of your conversion though as I'm convinced it will have lots of excellent ideas.. our plan is to move to a place with more space to sprawl. Thank you. 

CW


----------



## external power (Jun 25, 2018)

Thanks you guy's for this thread as I have a 935tv on the way and should be here in a couple days. I have been
rearranging my shop to accept it and hope I don't have to many problems getting it in place and off the pallet.
David you are the man!!  Thanks


----------



## hotrats (Jun 26, 2018)

*As far as a elevator for your cellar, a co worker used the mast and hydraulics from a forklift to make a exterior elevator for his parents to access their 2nd floor. Maybe a option to consider.


----------



## francist (Jun 26, 2018)

I guess the trick there would be finding a forklift with a blade spacing the same width as the wheelchair wheels....  

-frank


----------



## hotrats (Jun 27, 2018)

Most forklift forks are adjustable  for spacing. My friend made a platform, seat, safety rail, gate, and emergency switch, for those that wondered. Actually, was very nice, his parents were tired of climbing the stairs.


----------



## petertha (Sep 7, 2018)

Apologies for the Etcha-sketch CAD. I don't know much about pallet jacks in terms of lift capacity, fork thickness, floor standoff, spread distance between the tongs.... But conceptually would, this be a safe way to move this mill into position on a smooth concrete floor with a similar home made base pre-attached? Is the (red) temporary cross plate resting only on the web cutouts a no-no? (versus being supported on the 4 normal corner foot areas)? What about the 'wobbly factor'? I hear pallet jacks are used extensively for machine moving, but should there be straps tying down plate to machine & plate to forks? Or is that futile anyway because the c/g is so high?

I've seen some elegant welded bases integrating retractable wheels so moving the mill around after placement is both do-able & easier. I guess I'm wondering out loud - if my base was like this, 2 sticks of box tubing with fixed feet pre-attached. And presuming I could rent or access a pallet jack as needed, could I lift & move the mill assembly if required & save me the castor wheels up front?


----------



## davidpbest (Sep 7, 2018)

Better check pallet jack fork width first.  My pallet jack would not straddle the width of the PM935 base.


----------



## petertha (Sep 11, 2018)

I'm finding there is no such thing as standardized pallet jacks. My local rental place has something very close to this model: 27" across forks, 6.25" fork width, 2-7/8 min height. 30$/hr. Seemed perfect till I drew it up to check. I was hoping the forks would sneak in between the feet so I could roll base+mill into position, extend the feet to floor, retract jack, boom done. (I cant accommodate the pallet jack coming in from the side of mill due to other fixed obstructions). So either mod my dimensions for keep looking for other jacks. A wider one might work on either side of feet.

Also, did you guys use threaded rods through the mill base casting or long bolts somehow threaded into base? If threaded rods, I would have nuts & washers proud of underside of frame. So would need some planks between pallet forks & bottom. This is what I was scratching my head over using the roll-on-pipe method vs pallet jack - the bottom is not all flat.


----------



## petertha (Sep 11, 2018)

underside assuming mill is pre-mounted to frame


----------



## petertha (Sep 12, 2018)

Here is a 'maybe' option: pallet jack in at an angle. Coincident plane to the bolt pattern. Not quite sure if the jacks can swivel & park. Ultimately the mill must be parked in proximity & square to a rear wall.


----------



## Rich V (Sep 13, 2018)

That looks a bit scary to me, if off balanced there will be little bearing surface to hold it upright.

I built plaform that has both leveling pads and swivel rollers. I raise the leveling feet to engage the rollers and set the levelers down to lift the mill off the rollers. Works well and no need for a pallet jack.


----------



## petertha (Sep 15, 2018)

I'm starting to appreciate why an overhead picker can make positioning operations simpler in certain respects. But I'm doubtful I can accommodate something like an engine hoist.

Another try - outboard threaded rod temporary stilts? Roll the mill+base into final resting position, jack down stilts to floor, remove palette jack clear, attach permanent feet (which interfere with pallete jack forks), jack down stilts.


----------



## Dabbler (Nov 1, 2018)

Very nice work, Peter! How about sharing the pic of the completed base?  I think it looks very nice!


----------



## petertha (Nov 11, 2018)

Well, since I started this post, only fitting that I show you some pics of how it turned out. Note this is not a PM-935 mill, it’s a highly similar model I purchased in Calgary (Canada).  So just showing here for PM interest sake.

Once I saw the ‘jacking plates’ for lack of a better term that the movers use in conjunction with pallet jacks, I simplified my frame design & eliminated trying to integrate that feature. So it’s basically like a roman numeral II made from 3x2x0.25”wt tubing. The leveling feet are commercial 4” diameter rubber machinery mounts, 400-600 pound capacity each, M16 threaded studs. The frame is drilled for the casting hole pattern. I used ½” diameter hex bolts because they are sufficiently strong & I wanted some wiggle room in the ~ 5/8” (or metric?) holes just in case. They bolts are secured with slightly shortened 2” coupler nuts & lock washers inside the tubing. After trial fitting the stand I gave it a couple coats of Tremclad oil based paint with a foam roller. Then it was bolted to the mill & transported to my shop that way with feet removed.

The mill+base was removed from truck using their picker & placed on the jacking plates which rest on the pallet jack with some grippy rubber sheets between metal. Now the mill was rolled into position, some steel floor protection plates position & jacking bolts which were now torqued & extended sequentially to desired clearance height using a socket wrench. The pallet jack was slid out, feet inserted into their holes from underneath with nuts & washers, jacking plates lowered & removed. Mill was leveled & that was about it. Probably 45 minutes from curbside to final position going slow & steady.

I hadn’t really made plans to move the mill around the shop floor (easily) later down the road like some of the nice ideas I’ve seen with castor wheels, either permanent or removable. Part of this was I don’t have welding equipment & I was consciously trying to keep the base footprint kind of compact. This might be something I regret, but essentially moving it later would be the reverse of this process. Turns out pallet jack rental is quite accessible & reasonable 35 $/hr. Plus one less piece of equipment I would need to own & sit idle most of the time. These particular jacking plates are pretty heavy duty, they use them on much bigger machines. But I could get away with less & relatively inexpensive material cost.


Things I now know that I didn’t know that you should know:

If you can trust your casting pattern hole layout 100% (and apparently this is a big if with offshore machines), it might be better to just weld nuts to the top of the frame & engage the bolts into them. I opted for through holes & some allowance but it was kind of fiddly mating the base to the casting & getting nuts in from underside holding a perched lock washer.

Yes you could use threaded rod or longer bolts with nuts on the underside of frame. My thinking was potential PITA factor. You would always have to consider clearance so the machine was never resting on them. This would also complicate rolling the machine on pipes if you are doing Egyptian mover style. So I figured try & keep the base underside clean.

The rubber leveling pads seem to be well suited to this machine & reasonably priced. But getting them up under the frame requires the whole assembly to be up >6”. I don’t have good ideas around this but just mentioning if you have height constraints. Possibly you could mill lateral slots in the tubing from the end vs. drilled holes so they could be slid in from the side at lower elevation. But I’m not sure slots are conducive to jack properly when leveling? It would be better if the bolt threaded through the top of frame into a floor puck. Doable but a home brew & probably requires welding.

There is a possibility I could have widened the stance of the leveling feet & snuck the pallet jack forks in between. I was not aware they had the narrow fork model & I had the narrower distance between pucks on the brain, not forks between the studs & feet fully extended just while on pallet jack ride. That may have mitigated the the jacking plates altogether.

The reason I went with rectangular tubing in the first place was to gain mill table working height elevation which is something I heard was desirable on this particular mill. David Best has a beautifully simple no-weld base frame concept that uses 2 sticks of angle iron on the front & rear of mill casting & feet on the outboard ends. It sits lower or within the limits of his leveling feet. Maybe there is a hybrid solution using only 2 sticks of rectangular tubing & omitting my fore-aft members. This would be less expensive (material use), omits welding & gives some fit-up latitude. Because once it’s welded together the casting hole pattern is now also locked down & SOL if it doesn't fit. I suspect you could still use jacking plates with 2 members but they would contact the casting base recess cutout & longer stilts. I suppose my 4-member welded base has a bit more rigidity but I’ve also heard of people running the mill on just the casting feet if they are fine with stock table height.

Almost pooched myself #1. The 3” wide tubing with a hole centered at 1.5” has the casting foot front edge barely contacting full steel. I forgot to factor in the bullnose profile of the steel tubing on my drawing. I could have prevented this many ways like using 4” wide stock or just realizing it when you drill your holes.

Almost pooched myself #2. All along I was adding mill height to base height & comparing result to my garage ceiling height. Well somehow the presence of garage door track completely failed to enter my brain. That new constraint reduced my working height by a healthy 8”. Of course the whole idea of the ram movement is such that the motor can top has to clear this fore & aft without an embarrassing clunk shortly after the delivery truck drives away. Mine has ~1” clearance & looks like the motor will spend most of its life on the other side of track anyway. Whew! But something to pay attention to.

I was all focused on raising the average table height, but another factor enters the picture.  I can just barely reach the drawbar top nut on my tippy toes. I may have to get a small stool, we’ll see. So that’s the downside of raising the mill too much depending on your height.

Think that’s about it. Hope this helps someone. Thanks for your suggestions & ask if there is something not clear.


----------



## petertha (Nov 11, 2018)

moving pics


----------



## petertha (Nov 11, 2018)

install pics


----------



## petertha (Nov 11, 2018)

drawings


----------



## Dabbler (Nov 11, 2018)

very nice work!  You can always borrow my pallet jack since we are so close - save you 35$ an hour.


----------



## petertha (Nov 12, 2018)

Thanks for the nice offer.

I'm slowly getting it dialed in when time allows. Very different than my prior RF-45 style mill. Things aren't where they used to be LOL! so having to reprogram my brain a bit. Oh well, it will come. Seems like a very smooth machine thus far


----------



## Stonebriar (Nov 12, 2018)

Thanks for the follow up.  Nice to see how it turned out.


----------



## Winegrower (Jan 30, 2019)

Though this is an older thread, so much thought has gone into this.   I just sat my Bridgeport on two 4x4s running front to back.  I can easily run a pallet jack in from the front, just what you need, and the mill, all 2200 pounds, moves easily.   The extra 3.5” height is really valuable for taller folks.


----------



## Clock work (Feb 1, 2019)

I like this much more than the leveling feet. More solid. Nothing to sway in response to vibration, or me sneezing I made leveling rods and the vibration was a fail for me, so I only lift them up high enough to keep one full flat edge in contact with the ground. At some point when my motivation is sufficient, I'll buy or make a solid base and perhaps consider the 4x4 approach. Simple rocks. I will note too I added 120# of lead to the base and got an observable improvement in surface finish. I'll add more when that elusive motivation locates me


----------



## szenieh (Feb 18, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> Here is what I did with my PM935 that arrived last week.   I wanted it up on leveling feet and to increase the height of the machine off the floor just enough that my pallet jack forks would clear going under the mill from the side (forks are 21" wide, 3.5" tall, the cutout is 24", but I needed another 1.5 inches of height for them to clear).
> 
> I started with two pieces of 1/4" thick 3x4 angle, 26" long, clipped off the 3" side corners at 45-degrees, flap-disc'd off the mill scale and radiused the corners and eased all the edges.
> 
> ...


Hello David,

I know this is a very old post, but I have a couple of questions.  Did you drill and tap for the 5/8" all-thread in the angle iron? Was 1/4" thickness enough to hold the all thread secure or did you add a jam nut there? Also, I am assuming you only engaged that thread the 1/4" thickness of the angle iron as to not protrude and interfere with your pallet jack, is that correct? I am about to move my PM935 around the shop and wanted to do this mod and maybe use a pallet jack. I just get worried about its stability on a pallet jack from the side as it is so top-heavy. I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks. Salah


----------



## davidpbest (Feb 18, 2022)

szenieh said:


> I know this is a very old post, but I have a couple of questions.  Did you drill and tap for the 5/8" all-thread in the angle iron?


No, I used opposing jamb nuts on either side of the hole in the angle to hold the all-thread.  My pallet jack is 21” wide (narrow version since all my Europenn woodworking machines require that width) and it enters from the side of the mill into the cutout reliefs in the casting, not from the front.   That said, I see no reason why you couldn’t thread the ¼” thick angle instead.  That connection with the all-thread is simply to hold the angle iron to the base of the mill and thus the threads are not taking a lot of shear load.  I have not encountered stability issues with the mill on the pallet jack.  Hope this helps.  

David


----------



## szenieh (Feb 18, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> No, I used opposing jamb nuts on either side of the hole in the angle to hold the all-thread.  My pallet jack is 21” wide (narrow version since all my Europenn woodworking machines require that width) and it enters from the side of the mill into the cutout reliefs in the casting, not from the front.   That said, I see no reason why you couldn’t thread the ¼” thick angle instead.  That connection with the all-thread is simply to hold the angle iron to the base of the mill and thus the threads are not taking a lot of shear load.  I have not encountered stability issues with the mill on the pallet jack.  Hope this helps.
> 
> David


Thank you David for the quick and clear response. I will see if I can rent a narrow (21" wide) pallet jack here. Your insight and help is much appreciated as always.

Salah
P.S. I just saw a photo on your Flickr account of the PM935 with the pallet jack. A fellow (friend) was wheeling it into your shop.


----------



## szenieh (Feb 18, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> No, I used opposing jamb nuts on either side of the hole in the angle to hold the all-thread.  My pallet jack is 21” wide (narrow version since all my Europenn woodworking machines require that width) and it enters from the side of the mill into the cutout reliefs in the casting, not from the front.   That said, I see no reason why you couldn’t thread the ¼” thick angle instead.  That connection with the all-thread is simply to hold the angle iron to the base of the mill and thus the threads are not taking a lot of shear load.  I have not encountered stability issues with the mill on the pallet jack.  Hope this helps.
> 
> David


A quick follow up ... in your post you say "drilling and tapping". What is it that you tapped then? And what is the nut and washer in this photo for?







Salah


----------



## Just for fun (Feb 18, 2022)

Looking at @litewings PM935 the base casting has been changed.


----------



## Stonebriar (Feb 18, 2022)

An improvement. You no longer need to find a 10" long bolt for the base.


----------



## Cletus (Feb 18, 2022)

Yup, gladly mine came with the same base casting.


----------



## petertha (Feb 18, 2022)

Just curious. I know there are certain mill models with Taiwan 935 heads & the rest of the machine is Chinese. I haven't looked through the PM lineup in a while. Might this explain the difference in base casting?


----------



## davidpbest (Feb 18, 2022)

szenieh said:


> A quick follow up ... in your post you say "drilling and tapping". What is it that you tapped then? And what is the nut and washer in this photo for?
> 
> 
> 
> Salah


I didn’t tap anything and have updated my previous post to clarify.  The nut and washer are just resting on the angle to visually clarify what I used.  Sorry for any confusion. More complete details are at the following link including pallet jack interface photos and the addition of the Acorn nuts to clean up the toe-stub threaded shafts.









						PM935 Milling Maching Leveling/Moving Platform
					

Explore this photo album by David Best on Flickr!




					flic.kr
				




David


----------



## szenieh (May 3, 2022)

Hello David,

You say in your post: "
10" long all thread into tapped 5/8 holes (which are 417mm apart CL-to-CL)".

Can you confirm that the CL-to-CL distance between the base holes on the PM935 are 417mm for the front holes as well as the back holes? 
Did you also mean the tapped 3/4" holes. The PM935 comes with 3/4"-10 tapped holes. I understand that you put 5/8" all thread through these holes as you didn't need them threaded at the base. Instead you captured them at the top of the base with 5/8-11 nuts. Did I get that right?

Thanks,

Salah


----------



## davidpbest (May 3, 2022)

szenieh said:


> Hello David,
> 
> You say in your post: "
> 10" long all thread into tapped 5/8 holes (which are 417mm apart CL-to-CL)".
> ...


I just remeasured, and yes, the holes in the base casting of my PM-935 are indeed 417mm center-to-center on both the front and back.  The 3/4” holes in the base of my machine were not tapped.  I don’t know if that is normal or it it was an oversight on my particular mill.  I’m sure there are variations machine to machine, and from the photos posted above by @Cletus, PM has modified the base of the 935 substantially since mine was produced in 2017.  They have lopped off the corners with exaggerated chamfers and brought down the mounting platform at the four corners.  Compare the photos above with those at the link I provided.  

David


----------



## davidpbest (May 3, 2022)

szenieh said:


> Hello David,
> 
> You say in your post: "
> 10" long all thread into tapped 5/8 holes (which are 417mm apart CL-to-CL)".
> ...


This link provides a cross section of the platform attachment method I used on my 935:


__
		https://flic.kr/p/2n8iCEZ

I think you can see that I used 5/8“ AllThread to secure the platforms to the mill base using a jamb nut on the bottom and an acorn nut on top for safety.  This way when I elevate the mill from the side using my narrow pallet jack, the platforms elevate with the mill and remain attached.  Hope this helps.


----------



## davidpbest (May 3, 2022)

This dimensioned drawing is faithful to my build:


__
		https://flic.kr/p/2n8iw8W

And this cut-away further illustrates the design:


__
		https://flic.kr/p/2n8jMY2


----------



## szenieh (May 3, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> This dimensioned drawing is faithful to my build:
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Very nice. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## szenieh (May 3, 2022)

Here's my plan- I should be finishing it this week. My intention is to have two machines (PM935 and PM940 CNC) on caster wheels with levelers. Take a look at some snapshots from solidworks for the PM935:

























I am using CarryMaster-ALC-1000FB.











I"ll post photos once I get this put together on the machine.

Salah


----------



## davidpbest (May 4, 2022)

I saw your other query about the dimension of the 940. I encourage you to wait on critical dimensions until you have the machines in your possession and can do your own take-offs.


----------



## szenieh (May 4, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> I saw your other query about the dimension of the 940. I encourage you to wait on critical dimensions until you have the machines in your possession and can do your own take-offs.


Thank you- that is very wise. I do have both machines in my garage. I will take my own measurements tomorrow. Just wanted to cross-check with someone who also has the machines. The dimensions seem to vary- which is surprising. Maybe they are using different molds when they cast these things.

For the PM935, my measurement is 417.5 mm- I used a scale and it seems to be rougly 16.4375" (16 7/16"). What is your procedure for taking this measurement?  I already have 3/4"-10 all-thread going to each leveling feet. So, any measurement I take will have to be using a tape or a scale. It cannot be that accurate. It is difficult to get an accurate measurement when the all-thread is already in place.


----------



## davidpbest (May 4, 2022)

szenieh said:


> The dimensions seem to vary- which is surprising. Maybe they are using different molds when they cast these things.


The holes are hand drilled after casting.   There are no casting drafts or evidence of plugs to suggest otherwise.  Plus, this is China.  Even in Taiwan today, lots of holes are hand drilled and tapped.  Welcome to the dive to the bottom.


----------



## szenieh (May 4, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> The holes are hand drilled after casting.   There are no casting drafts or evidence of plugs to suggest otherwise.  Plus, this is China.  Even in Taiwan today, lots of holes are hand drilled and tapped.  Welcome to the dive to the bottom.


A dive to the bottom indeed. I just wish the US and others embrace fundamental industries again. I was once driving up around Gary Indiana going to O'Hare airport and someone mentioned the abandoned steel mills in that area. It is a pity to see many supplies, once abundant and of quality, only come from China.

Thank you for the insights you always give and for the meticulous documentation that you keep.


----------



## davidpbest (May 4, 2022)

Salah, I just looked at your Solidworks drawings.  I see what looks like AllThread tie-rods that connect the front and rear platforms together.  Those tie-rods may be helpful getting everything assembled, but at least on the 935 they are probably unnecessary once everything is bolted together.   If you do employ them, I encourage you to cap the ends with acorn nuts for safety reasons.  

Good luck with your build.   I considered doing a CNC conversion of the 940, and ended up deciding against it.  One of the reasons I abandoned the idea was my friend James experience which he discusses in the first 2-3 minutes of this video.    When your 940 does arrive, I encourage you to check the perpendicularly of the various axis movements.  Have a look at this video for more info on what/how to check.

David


----------



## Dabbler (May 4, 2022)

@davidpbest While the ready rod isn't strictly necessary, it will help relieve the stress caused by the angle iron tending to twist downward under load. The bolts do carry that load, but are also holding the machine to the angles, so the ready rod isolates the function in an elegant way.

@szenieh I really like your design!  I am doing the same thing on a PM935 (clone), but with a different approach.  I'll post my project later this year (when I dig it out) and link you to it.  All projects for me are delayed at least 3 months (sigh)


----------



## davidpbest (May 4, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> @davidpbest While the ready rod isn't strictly necessary, it will help relieve the stress caused by the angle iron tending to twist downward under load. The bolts do carry that load, but are also holding the machine to the angles, so the ready rod isolates the function in an elegant way.


That’s debatable, and totally a function of the scantlings of the angle material.   If he uses ¼” 3x4 CRS angle like I did with my implementation, an FEA analysis will show tie rods are unnecessary.


----------



## Dabbler (May 4, 2022)

davidpbest said:


> That’s debatable,


Of course it is.  But I have the right to compliment him on a very well executed design.


davidpbest said:


> tie rods are unnecessary.


Perhaps they are, perhaps not.  But my point about isolating forces remains valid. In Engineering, you are taught to recognize all forces, what is in tension and what is in torsion.  No need for FEA to do this.  

- You may build things any way you choose.  I'm pretty sure I'd like your design also.


----------



## szenieh (May 5, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> Of course it is.  But I have the right to compliment him on a very well executed design.
> 
> Perhaps they are, perhaps not.  But my point about isolating forces remains valid. In Engineering, you are taught to recognize all forces, what is in tension and what is in torsion.  No need for FEA to do this.
> 
> - You may build things any way you choose.  I'm pretty sure I'd like your design also.


David moves his machine with a narrow pallet jack. I intend to move my machine with the caster-level. As one moves the machine, a wheel may encounter an obstruction of some sort that will introduce a lateral force on the angle iron and, more significantly, a torsional moment tending to twist it out of position. I am using 3"x4" 3/8" thickness that has to become an integral part of the base. The only reaction forces and moments to such a perturbation, are provided by the all-thread that ties the angle iron to the base and the friction/vertical wall between the angle iron and the base. 

The 5/8" all-thread is stout and has a "clamped" end conditions both at the top of the base and at the connection to the angle iron. The applied torsional moment will tend to bend that all-thread. The friction between the angle iron and the bottom of the base will counter-act the force introduced by this "bump" as well as the vertical wall resting against the angle iron (this reaction is dependant on the direction of the perturbation).  My concern is mainly the torsion- it will tend to bend the 10"-all-thread, or at the very least, introduce stresses on the 5/8"-11 nuts' connection that will tend to losen them. 

As Dabbler said, there are potential torsional torques that one will see only because I am designing for moving the machine. For David, he does not have that problem, as he picks up the machine and moves it with a pallet jack.

I have prepared a 1/4-model in solidworks to run some FEA simulation (as Dabbler said, a simple engineering static analysis will suffice, but why not go all out and run a simulation). I suspect that for low enough obstruction force (bump on the wheels), the tie rods may not be needed. But they do provide a mitigation to counter-act that torsional moment should it arise. That was the reason why I added the tie rods. Notice that the entire assembly becomes a torsional box that is a lot more stable with these tie rods. Below may help illustrate the perturbation and the reaction moment I am stipulating.








Once I run the simulation with few loading conditions, I will post the results.


----------

