# Making a Set of Mini Pallet Toe Clamps for the Milling Machine



## Janderso (Mar 25, 2021)

I need clamps.
The mini pallet for the mill and rotary table are on my short list.
The video by Keith Rucker inspired me to use his dimensions and style.

I hesitated for days about which steel I should use. I decided on 4140HT.
I checked around different online sources and chose my friends at McMaster.
This piece is 1/2" X 1/4" X 18". It's precision ground, hardened 4140.
The price is $38 plus shipping = $51.

My question to you, should I use this beautiful piece of stock? 
Is there a substitute you feel comfortable recommending?
I appreciate your ideas.


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## jbobb1 (Mar 25, 2021)

Use it. It'll make a quality clamp. You can always get another piece if needed. 
McMaster-Carr has been getting a lot of my business lately, and they always come through.


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## DavidR8 (Mar 25, 2021)

If that's already hardened isn't going to be a bear to machine?


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## Janderso (Mar 25, 2021)

jbobb1 said:


> Use it. It'll make a quality clamp. You can always get another piece if needed.
> McMaster-Carr has been getting a lot of my business lately, and they always come through.


Ok, thanks jbobb,

I see people complaining about the quality of unknown steel from Ebay and scrap yards.
I get it, steel is expensive, what isn't these days.


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## Janderso (Mar 25, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> If that's already hardened isn't going to be a bear to machine?


Nah, I thought so too. John York, AKA benmychree convinced me to quit buying the annealed stuff. I've tried machining hardened 4140HT, HSS cuts it and of course carbide works just fine.
I don't think I've drilled and tapped it yet. Should be OK. It's not like tool steel. This is chrome moly.

I do wear my big boy pants when I work with this stuff though.


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## DavidR8 (Mar 25, 2021)

OK that's good to know as I would have never bought HT otherwise.
Thanks for the tip!


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## jbobb1 (Mar 25, 2021)

Just watch for any bending when you cut the slot. As small as these clamps are, it'll probably be minimal, but just keep an eye on them.
I've machine a ton of 4142HT. It's tough stuff, but not bad to work with.


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## Janderso (Mar 25, 2021)

jbobb1 said:


> Just watch for any bending when you cut the slot. As small as these clamps are, it'll probably be minimal, but just keep an eye on them.
> I've machine a ton of 4142HT. It's tough stuff, but not bad to work with.


I wasn't expecting stress. Good tip


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 25, 2021)

i have made clamps form scrap to identified steels as well as aluminum
just about any steel would have sufficient mechanical properties to be used as a clamp
my favorite material is 303 for ease of machining and abundance in the form of scrap in my shop
aluminum has worked well too


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## benmychree (Mar 25, 2021)

4140 HT is not difficult to machine, it is not all that hard, HSS will cut it easily, Just slow down the cutting speed.  Tapping is no problem with HSS.


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## Janderso (Mar 26, 2021)

Ulma Doctor said:


> i have made clamps form scrap to identified steels as well as aluminum
> just about any steel would have sufficient mechanical properties to be used as a clamp
> my favorite material is 303 for ease of machining and abundance in the form of scrap in my shop
> aluminum has worked well too


Mike,
I was going to use cold rolled steel but saw someone post the clamps bent under load.
I can't remember where I saw that?? 
Good to know,
Thanks buddy!


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## Janderso (Mar 26, 2021)

benmychree said:


> Tapping is no problem with HSS


John,
Would this material work harden even further? I know when drilling material that will harden up, you need to apply pressure (when drilling) get in and get out. No lolly gagging around.


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 26, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Mike,
> I was going to use cold rolled steel but saw someone post the clamps bent under load.
> I can't remember where I saw that??
> Good to know,
> Thanks buddy!


Hardened materials can be bent too!


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## Weldingrod1 (Mar 26, 2021)

By the way, the commercial heat treat stock he's talking about is not "hard" like a drill bit. It's more in the high yield and tough as nails. It's probably in the 70-120 ksi yield.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## aliva (Mar 26, 2021)

I made mine from key stock. Cheap, readily available , since the clamps are short , around 3" flexing is not an issue. If you accidently hit it with a end mill it's not hard enough to cause problems.


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## ericc (Mar 26, 2021)

I just use mild steel.  It works fine if you make a little thicker and keep the deformation down.  I tried making a couple out of spring steel, and I noticed it worked me a lot harder.  They were made with hammer and anvil.  The spring steel is a lot harder to punch.


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## Janderso (Mar 29, 2021)

Right wrong or indifferent,
I’m on my way.
I must admit, working this material is nice.
Right off the mill, still full of burrs. (4) 1 1/2” and (6) 2” clamps.
Next step, clean up the edges and drill and tap 10-32 for the adjustable stand off.


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## Janderso (Apr 2, 2021)

Looking for advise.
I watched Keith Rucker's video on his mini pallet and clamps.
It seems like the tapped holes are never in the right spot, in my limited experience.
I plan on laying this pallet out with tapped 10-32 holes every square inch.
The clamps are 1 1/2" and 2".
I'll cut the pallet down on the bottom to make a step that will fit in the vise. I'm thinking the pallet will go the direction of the X travel. What say you?
See any design ideas you would change? add?

Thanks,
I appreciate your thoughts!


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## Tio Loco (Apr 2, 2021)

Looks like the one from Saunders (https://saundersmachineworks.com/products/machinist-vise-mini-pallet-fixture-plate) is layed out on .75" centers.

Little Machine Shop was selling one that I can't find on their site now.  Blondihacks has one of them, so you can see it here (at about 22 minutes):


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## tjb (Apr 2, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Looking for advise.
> I watched Keith Rucker's video on his mini pallet and clamps.
> It seems like the tapped holes are never in the right spot, in my limited experience.
> I plan on laying this pallet out with tapped 10-32 holes every square inch.
> ...


That's pretty close to exactly how I made mine.  I tapped 1/4-20 holes on 1" centers, made a step on the bottom front and rear so it could be mounted on my vise, but I also added a set of larger holes in order to mount and center it on my rotary table.  My toe clamps are made of 1/2" CRS.

I've used it quite a bit on both the vise and the rotary table.  Other than possibly making it a little shorter, I wouldn't change anything on it.

Regards,
Terry


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## Janderso (Apr 2, 2021)

Tio Loco said:


> Looks like the one from Saunders (https://saundersmachineworks.com/products/machinist-vise-mini-pallet-fixture-plate) is layed out on .75" centers.
> 
> Little Machine Shop was selling one that I can't find on their site now.  Blondihacks has one of them, so you can see it here (at about 22 minutes):


Shoot, the one from Saunders has a nice spread of mounting options. I like it.
Maybe I'll go every .630" square. (The beauty of a DRO and the grid setting.)
Power tapping goes pretty fast. I have all day. Well, you know.


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## Janderso (Apr 3, 2021)

Made some progress today.
To my horror, I shattered an expensive 1/2” carbide four flute end mill. I was running around 600 rpm, hand feeding slowly.
The strange thing is I wasn’t pushing it at all. Yes I was taking full bites but these are tiny bites in my experience.
I finished cutting the 30 degree wedges with a 3/4” HSS 4 flute. On my first pass the end mill pulled out of the collet a bit. Separates the men from the boys, I’m just a child.
I just got one of the four short pieces in the vise, centered and the DRO set to cut the slot.
Im done for today, my back is killing me.


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## DavidR8 (Apr 3, 2021)

Well dang, other that the mishap those look really great Jeff!


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## brino (Apr 3, 2021)

Well crap, I hate it when that happens.

However, personally I am also jealous of all your shop time lately!

I'd rather be "shattering carbide" in my own shop than doing my daily chores for "the man".
I shouldn't complain, at least I am working and getting paid.......even during our lock-down.

-brino


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## Janderso (Apr 3, 2021)

I was able to sneak in some honey do’s.
Washed the outside windows, took my mother to the market and worked on the sprinklers.
I’m pooped. You young fellows need to appreciate living without pain. Getting older has its moments.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 3, 2021)

clamps are looking good! Are you going to black oxide them?

Looks like the clamp at the bottom moved = shattered end mill. HSS is a lot more forgiving in that regard.


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## tjb (Apr 3, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Getting older has its moments.


But it beats the heck out of Plan B.  (I feel your pain.)

Regards


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## Janderso (Apr 3, 2021)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> clamps are looking good! Are you going to black oxide them?
> 
> Looks like the clamp at the bottom moved = shattered end mill. HSS is a lot more forgiving in that regard.


I think I should black oxide these babies. It’s not like I have a rust problem but that seems like a no brainer.
I’ve never blued anything. Well, there was that Ruger Mark III repair once.
I bought some Brownell’s Oxpho-Blue about two years ago. That’s the ticket.


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## Ulma Doctor (Apr 4, 2021)

i hate breaking carbide, it usually doesn't give much warning 
the clamps are looking great Jeff!


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 4, 2021)

I can't remember what I used for black oxide, potassium something or other. A user called markx on another forum detailed the proceedure. Works very well and is super durable, more so in my opinion than oxpho-blue.


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## Janderso (Apr 4, 2021)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I can't remember what I used for black oxide, potassium something or other. A user called markx on another forum detailed the proceedure. Works very well and is super durable, more so in my opinion than oxpho-blue.


Potassium something? That’s a start I guess.
So, don’t use the Brownell’s stuff?
I’ll see what I can find.


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## Papa Charlie (Apr 4, 2021)

I have used the Brownell's solution. Worked well for me. 

Your clamps are looking great.


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## aliva (Apr 4, 2021)

I use cold blue  oxide from Caswell plating


			Black Oxide Concentrate - Caswell Canada


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## Janderso (Apr 4, 2021)

I went too slow but got them cut.
7/32 Carbide 3 flute Kyocera.


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## tjb (Apr 4, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I went too slow but got them cut.
> 7/32 Carbide 3 flute Kyocera.


Very nice.


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## Ulma Doctor (Apr 4, 2021)

Sweeeet!!!!


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 4, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Potassium something? That’s a start I guess.
> So, don’t use the Brownell’s stuff?
> I’ll see what I can find.



see, this is why I shouldn't rely on my memory  It's ammonium nitrate (it's got an "ium" in it I guess?) that you need.

Here's the link


			Black oxide experiment -  		 		The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop Magazine's BBS
		


I found it gave a deeper black that was much more wear resistant than the oxpho-blue (I think from Brownells) that I used for some other stuff.


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## Janderso (Apr 4, 2021)

Gave the Oxpho-Blue a try.
I’m impressed with how easy it was.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Apr 4, 2021)

did you give it a good scrubbing with wire wool between dips? Looks good and black!


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## f350ca (Apr 4, 2021)

Very nice.
I use the Caswell plating kit, it comes with a coating you dip the parts in after blueing. Smells like a varnish, but feels more like an oil. Really brings out the colour and further protects against rust

Greg


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## 7milesup (Apr 4, 2021)

f350ca said:


> Very nice.
> I use the Caswell plating kit, it comes with a coating you dip the parts in after blueing. Smells like a varnish, but feels more like an oil. Really brings out the colour and further protects against rust
> 
> Greg


I wonder if it is Penetrol (their own "branding" of course).

If you don't put it on too heavy, Penetrol gives a real nice satin finish.  Not sure how it holds up to cutting fluids or such though.


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## 7milesup (Apr 4, 2021)

Those clamps look real nice Jeff.  Good job.


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## Janderso (Apr 4, 2021)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> did you give it a good scrubbing with wire wool between dips? Looks good and black!


Oops, no, I cleaned them with acetone, blew them off then dipped for a cou minutes.
Blew them off then oiled them.


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## mikey (Apr 4, 2021)

Those came out real nice, Jeff!


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## DavidR8 (Apr 4, 2021)

Really good work there Jeff.


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