# Considering a Grizzly G0709 14 x 40 Gunsmith Lathe



## Cast Iron Daddy

Hello all,

I'm considering the purchase of a Grizzly G0709  Gunsmith Lathe .  It's a 14 x 40 and is advertised online and in the published catalog .

Was wondering if any of you have any negative / positive input on this machime ?

They also list a similar 13 x 40 Floor lathe for more ( $ 4795  Vs 4495 ) which has a few less goodies and is smaller .  I don't really know why .

To the moderator :  If this is in the wrong place , I'm sorry .  Please move it to wherever it belongs .

Thanks a million guys !



Doug


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## wrmiller

Given the recent Griz bashing here, you may get an earful. And maybe even some constructive comments as well.


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## Cast Iron Daddy

Fine by me ..........................

Rather that than a $5000  mistake


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## xalky

I came so close to pulling the trigger on that lathe a couple of months ago. There are a few videos on YOUTUBE of guys rating them and using them. You definitely get a lot of lathe for your money. The guys on Youtube that have them seem to love them. If I couldn't have found something used that suited my needs locally (cheaper too)I would have bought that lathe. Hopefully someone here will chime in that actually has one.


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## flutedchamber

Doug, 

About eight years ago I was looking for a lathe and actually had that very lathe on order.  I went to see the lathe at their Pennsylvania showroom.  Fit and finish was OK, not as good as Jet lathes I've used that were of comparable size.  The most disturbing thing is the conglomeration of small things that were wrong.  For instance, the dish on the handwheels for the carriage, compound and tailstock would rub my hand during use (and I have relatively small hands).  The castings were  well painted, but not finished one millimeter further than absolutely necessary.  Another hour by the manufacturer with a die grinder and some redesigned handwheels and the lathe wouldn't be bad.  THE most disturbing thing was the lack of smoothness of the carriage.  It didn't catch because the finish on the ways was rough, it was just "tight feeling".  

When I told the salesman about that, he told me the carriage hand to "wear in."  Why a carriage would have to wear in is beyond me.  New Jet lathes that I've used were silky smooth and they didnt' have to "wear in."

Anyway, my order for that lathe and a new mill (G0757) fell thru because someone forgot to order it after I paid for the machines.  My money was eventually returned and I bought a used Bridgeport and a used Nardine 1760E lathe for about $2000 less than the two Grizzly machines cost new.  I brought both machines home myself.  

The Nardini is heavier, has a wider bed, wider ways and has handwheels that don't try to eat your knuckles during use. The silky smoothness is there, even better than the Jet lathes, more on a level of a nice Sheldon lathe.  I don't have any complaint about that lathe, or my milling machine.  But...that's me.  The Nardini lathe was built for industry, to be used two or three shifts per day, five days per week, fifty or more weeks per year.  You get what you pay for.

If I were you, before I put the money down on the Grizzly lathe or any Grizzly product, find a dealer that has a Jet unit in stock and try it for yourself.  Unless Jet has changed in the past few years, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.  Jet doesn't seem to cut corners like Grizzly does, but how you spend your money is your business.

I'm not sure if this falls into the realm of Grizzly bashing, but it is what I found through my own experience.  Just because it's new and shiny doesn't mean that it's comfortable to use or isn't a piece of junk.

PS I do have a Grizzly drill press that I am pleased with.  It is their G7948.  The fit and finish is actually pretty good.  I had to have the motor fixed by a local shop after it wouldn't stop shutting off under no load and I had to replace the drill chuck with a Jacobs unit because the runout on the original chuck was excessive (.009+)  It would have cost me more to send the motor back to Grizzly for repair under warranty than to bring it to a local shop for repair.  It turned out the centrifugal switch was damaged during assembly at the factory.  Again, you get what you pay for.


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## Rbeckett

Griz  is OK, but you might take a look at the Precision Mathews machines from Matt.  They are Taiwan imports and are a better over all fit and finish for the money.  They have a comparable machine to the one you are looking at for a comparable price too.  Given the option I would go with one of the three, Precision Mathews, Grizzly and Smithy.  Bolton also offers a comparable machine in the same range too.  Just a thought.

Bob


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## Cast Iron Daddy

Fluted ,

I would love a Nardini .  Just havn't found the right one just yet .  'Im in oil field country ( Houston) ,  so good ones are snapped up pretty fast .  

Will your Nardini do Metric threads ........if not ,  what has be be changed or is it even possible .



Thanks Again


Doug


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## drs23

This is one of those "to each his own" kinda things. I can't comment on the G0709 specifically other than to repeat that the folks who have posted YouTube videos about them really seem to like them. I bought a G4003G. The first one was damaged in shipping and Grizzly sent me another one before I ever sent the first one back. I've had no issues whatsoever with it being "tight" in any shape, form or fashion. It's capable of way more than I am. I have a machinist buddy who is teaching me some of the ins and outs of running a lathe and he's been very impressed with it. I've since added a DRO and am now more impressed than ever. If I were you I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. Or you can hold onto your cash and wait for that perfect piece of NOS iron to fall into your lap. May happen, may not.


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## Cast Iron Daddy

Bob ,

Thanks for the info.

Bolton has a warehouse here in Houston .  Im going over there Monday to take a look .  

Boltons are China I believe...............if not ,  please advise .   Not a deal breaker ,  just info .  Im 
more interested in fit / finish .

The PM s are nice .............you reffered to Matt .   Is he the PM sales guy ?   Can I call him ?


Thanks a million


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## Pacer

Another nod for PM machines and Matt - hes the owner and has a reputation for being over and above for communication and service - plus some very nice machines. I recently helped a buddy set up a PM 932 mill and was very impressed.


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## rsharrard

I have a G0709 and have nothing bad to say about it. It has been a well performing machine, in a "Hobby" environment. That being said, no mater what machine, in this class (Enco, Grizzly, PM), that you buy you've got to understand their limitations. They do not have the rigidity of an "Industrial" machine, and if you intend to use it as a daily producer, I'm not so sure they will hold up. With that in mind you really need to shop for the best post purchase care and support, and long term parts availability, or at least stock up on easily worn out spare parts.


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## wrmiller

I will be purchasing a new mill after the first of the year, and am looking exclusively at PM for several reasons:

He requests that his machines run through a different assembly/check process than some others do, and he has a pretty good reputation for following through/supporting his products after the sale. There are other intangibles, derived from a few conversations with Matt, but you get the idea. 

I just wish I had known about Matt/PM earlier, as I would have probably bought my lathe from him as well.

Bill


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## flutedchamber

Cast Iron Daddy said:


> Fluted ,
> 
> I would love a Nardini .  Just havn't found the right one just yet .  'Im in oil field country ( Houston) ,  so good ones are snapped up pretty fast .
> 
> Will your Nardini do Metric threads ........if not ,  what has be be changed or is it even possible .
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Again
> 
> 
> Doug



My Nardini does US (TPI), metric, diametrical, and modular threads.  There is two sets of gears with mine.  IIRC, Modular and US threads are on one set and Metric and the rest is on the other, but I may be wrong.

PS  If you run into a Nardini that has plastic hand wheels, walk away.  When they went to plastic hand wheels, the quality of the lathe went down hill.  That's a shame.


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## george wilson

A Nardini is a totally better lathe,BUT,never buy the blue ones. Only buy the green ones. There are lots of issues with the blue ones that I can't remember reading about. Changes in management or something else might have caused the problems.

ARE the PM lathes ALL made in Taiwan? I'd like to know.

The Grizzlys are made in China except for more expensive models,when there's a large "MADE IN TAIWAN" sign on the page. But,they cost more money. Personally,I'm afraid to invest in a Chinese lathe. They are just too unpredictable in quality. And that remark that "They have to wear in is pure nonsense. Probably the hold downs under the carriage were too tight. That could be fixed. But,if the rack gear was too close to the rack,that would be a LOT more trouble.

Fortunately for me,I bought my 16x40 Grizzly lathe in 1986,when it WAS made in Taiwan.

I read somewhere that parts of the PM lathes are very rough,but can't recall where it was,but it was recently. I don't think those surfaces affected performance,just looks. I went to Grizzly in Pa. in 1986 and picked out TWO 16x40 lathes. Miserable 3 lane highway getting up there. I got  one for work and 1 for myself. I think I'd still rather see an expensive lathe in person,and see how smooth it operated before buying it.


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## Senna

I too am wary of Chinese machine tools and personally wouldn't buy one.
Taiwan is a different story altogether and IMO now very near to Japanese machines in quality.

That said, the suggestion of Nardini, or any other industrial quality machine tool is a good one. I have felt, and continue to feel that a guy just gets more machine for the same or less money when he buys machine tools designed and built with the accuracy and longevity of a tool meant to make money in an industrial setting.

For the price of that Grizzly or PM a guy can get an awful lot of machine in the used industrial marketplace.

Here's a nice one I've had my eye on for some time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/14-x-40-Pol...225?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3384f5d031

And another.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-X-40-CLA...423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0fc91617

And another, more expensive but in an altogether higher class than the Grizzly. I'd be willing to bet you could offer him closer to $5000 and get this very high grade lathe. I'd start by offering $3000 though. I've found that eBay sellers often will sell their wares for MUCH less than asking price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cazeneuve-3...371?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a3c8f5c3


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## LEEQ

I like old iron, but should you go that route educate yourself THOUROGHLY first. Please be kind and don't ask me how I know about ripoff artist machinery dealers. I would also throw in that I think a 12 x 36 would serve my needs. It would chuck a .50 BMG barrel between centers were I to use it for gunsmithing. If you are building bigger than that I would like pic's to drool over. When comparing the Griz to thePM I found the PM to have more goodies and a better reputation. It was also just a tad cheaper if memory serves. They also got me a quote head spinning fast.  I'm sue they will quote you and try to answer your questions/concerns. I like Grizzly and have a little 8688, but they are kind of big and cold at times. Whatever route you go, best of luck.


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## kd4gij

I haven't used the lathe but I have a G0704 mill. And it has been great. And Grizzly gustermer service has ben outstanding.


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## Senna

I just discovered this lathe on eBay and I'd be all over it if I had my fire insurance settlement in hand.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200995139091?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

This lathe, despite it's looks is an order of magnitude better than anything sold by Grizzly.
Pressurized lubrication of both the headstock and the apron and tailstock from two separate pumps. Vast threading options. fantastic build quality and the cosmetic issues will tend to keep the price down.
I think you could get this lathe shipped to your home and put it perfectly right mechanically for the same price as you'd pay for the Grizzly.

I have the owners manual for these HBX lathes and these are VERY impressive machines.

I really shouldn't be touting these Cazeneuve lathes so much because once people find out how spectacular these lathes are I may be priced out of the market.


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## george wilson

That Cazeneuve lathe has several issues: burned out motor and some others. It belongs to Milacron,owner of the PM site. There's a very nice one for $7,000.00 with a conventional tailstock. Milacron says that's why it hasn't sold. The Star wheel tailstock is more desirable.

 It is really an exceedingly fine toolroom lathe,and you can buy a manual for it from Tony Griffiths Engineering. Probably will run at least $125.00. He makes excellent quality,well bound reprints of scads of manuals. I have dealt with him.

There is a GREEN Nardini 14x40" lathe,buy it now $3500.00 on Ebay. Missing 2 small handles,easily made. The compound handle is metal. End of the compound is a bit chewed up,but probably not enough to hurt the lathe. These are MUCH nicer lathes than Grizzly. You'd best take a look at it.


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## flutedchamber

As George Wilson wrote, stay away from the blue Nardini lathes.  I forgot to mention they changed the color from green (pea soup green actually) to blue when the company changed hands.  This is when they went downhill in quality and used plastic handwheels.

Also, please keep in mind that there is no substitute for sheer weight when it comes to a lathe. Cast iron/nodular iron has a tremendous ability to dampen vibration.  I don't care how it's cross braced or that the ways are Meehanite, it's the weight of the machine that helps you get a smooth and accurate finish, all other things being equal.

Here's where i got my machines.  www.machineryvalues.com  The guy I dealt with was Andrew Valitt.  Very honest and down to earth.  He knocked over $2500 off when I bought two machines, and threw in a Kurt vise for the mill and some CA series Aloris toolholders for the lathe.


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## DBlue

I've got a Grizzly G0709 lathe and I'm very well pleased with it....I use it every day for my small business I have here at my home. I had thought of getting a older US made lathe and decided not to as I don't have time to be rebuilding a lathe. I took this lathe and got it set up and leveled, cleaned it, and have been putting it through the paces ever since without any problems...it serves my needs very well. It is very easy to thread with and also very accurate. I'm not a real machinist and don't really care that maybe a older American made lathe might be X amount of thousands more accurate than this one....all I care about is that this lathe does what I need it to and I haven't had any problems with it so far. When something fails on it in the future, I will fix it and just keep on going...the way I see it, so far I'm still way more money ahead of the game....


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## Senna

Good testimonial by DBlue but I would like to point out that "used" does not necessarily mean "needs to be rebuilt".
Of the approximately 15 used machine tools I've bought only two of them needed anything more than a cleaning up.


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## Pacer

My experience with used machines is quite different from Senna. I have bought 6 lathes and 1 mill off CL or from word of mouth at $500-600 each and a 'noobie' or even an 'experienced noobie' would have been in a world of hurt trying to bring one of them back. (I spent $3000 and 8 months on a SB heavy 10)  As the availability of 'ole mericun arn' gets less and less and the ones that do come up are too often in pretty bad shape, I have to advise noobies to put a lot of thought into tackling an old machine. I have read of several accounts of a guy finding an oldie and as time drags by looking for an 'xyz' gear or an 'abc' shaft and they dont seem to exist or the price is shocking, finally just shoving the once prized purchase over to the side and there it sits. I have the ability to make that shaft or gear and it can still be daunting at times. Mind you - this is my hobby and I do enjoy this type of thing.

A Chinese machine for a hobbiest in most cases is going to be the best choice - buy the thing, get it delivered, get it in the shop, plug it in and start making chips. The workmanship/fit/finish on the imports has improved dramatically in the last 5 yrs or so.


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## Ray C

Pacer,

Very well stated and thank you for the thoughtful post.  There is room in this a place for everyone on this website as we're devoted to hobbyist interests.  For some people, the hobby is rebuilding the machine to restore a piece of history.  That's perfectly fine and legitimate and requires great skill and knowledge.  Some folks just want to get a start in machining so, buying an old lathe in need of repair is a fine approach.  There are folks here willing to help and advise.   On the flip side, there are folks who want to focus on making parts and don't wish to spend endless hours (and dollars) refurbing the machine.  More importantly (as you mentioned) there are many new hobbyists that simply don't know what to look for in a used machine so, buying a new one gives some degree of protection from ending-up with something that's hopelessly past it's prime.  And I agree...  Unless you're buying used industrial machines costing 6-7 grand, the good offerings out there are becoming far-apart and few in-between.

Also, I agree... the quality of many of the imports have improved dramatically in the last 5-10 years.  It's no secret of what brand and dealer I am most supportive of for those who wish to purchase new machinery.  That said, they're all pretty decent and even the ones on the low end of the scale can usually be tweaked into usable machines provided you get the right help and advice.

A parting statement however is that no matter what machine you get (new or used) it will need a good system check, proper setup and alignment to get the most out of it.  The dealer I work with does a very good job of checking the basics on all machines before shipping them but even still, its impossible to check and catch everything.  Also, once a machine has been lifted and transported, it WILL need proper re-alignment.  In days gone by, when equipment was purchased, a field technician would do this work.  In today's economy, that task is left to the user (unless you purchase a service/setup contract which is beyond the scope of most hobbyists).

Ray





Pacer said:


> My experience with used machines is quite different from Senna. I have bought 6 lathes and 1 mill off CL or from word of mouth at $500-600 each and a 'noobie' or even an 'experienced noobie' would have been in a world of hurt trying to bring one of them back. (I spent $3000 and 8 months on a SB heavy 10)  As the availability of 'ole mericun arn' gets less and less and the ones that do come up are too often in pretty bad shape, I have to advise noobies to put a lot of thought into tackling an old machine. I have read of several accounts of a guy finding an oldie and as time drags by looking for an 'xyz' gear or an 'abc' shaft and they dont seem to exist or the price is shocking, finally just shoving the once prized purchase over to the side and there it sits. I have the ability to make that shaft or gear and it can still be daunting at times. Mind you - this is my hobby and I do enjoy this type of thing.
> 
> A Chinese machine for a hobbiest in most cases is going to be the best choice - buy the thing, get it delivered, get it in the shop, plug it in and start making chips. The workmanship/fit/finish on the imports has improved dramatically in the last 5 yrs or so.


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## Senna

Pacer said:


> My experience with used machines is quite different from Senna. I have bought 6 lathes and 1 mill off CL or from word of mouth at $500-600 each and a 'noobie' or even an 'experienced noobie' would have been in a world of hurt trying to bring one of them back. (I spent $3000 and 8 months on a SB heavy 10)  As the availability of 'ole mericun arn' gets less and less and the ones that do come up are too often in pretty bad shape, I have to advise noobies to put a lot of thought into tackling an old machine. I have read of several accounts of a guy finding an oldie and as time drags by looking for an 'xyz' gear or an 'abc' shaft and they dont seem to exist or the price is shocking, finally just shoving the once prized purchase over to the side and there it sits. I have the ability to make that shaft or gear and it can still be daunting at times. Mind you - this is my hobby and I do enjoy this type of thing.
> 
> A Chinese machine for a hobbiest in most cases is going to be the best choice - *buy the thing, get it delivered, get it in the shop, plug it in and start making chips.* The workmanship/fit/finish on the imports has improved dramatically in the last 5 yrs or so.




Exactly what I did with nearly all of my used equipment.
And obviously I disagree about a Chinese machine being the best choice for a hobbyist. I see no reason a hobbyist should be satisfied with lesser quality equipment just because he's a hobbyist. Are not the projects hobbyists undertake just as important and often just as precise as most production jobs?
I will also point out that the *combined* cost of *every* machine in my list below is half the price of the Grizzly in question.


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## jmh8743

_A parting statement however is that no matter what machine you get (new or used) it will need a good system check, proper setup and alignment to get the most out of it. The dealer I work with does a very good job of checking the basics on all machines before shipping them but even still, its impossible to check and catch everything. Also, once a machine has been lifted and transported, it WILL need proper re-alignment. In days gone by, when equipment was purchased, a field technician would do this work. In today's economy, that task is left to the user (unless you purchase a service/setup contract which is beyond the scope of most hobbyists)._

Doug,

There are thousands of words written here. These are the best. Being new, I did not know about this web site. I spent 2 yrs trying to get a lathe to work. PM has a good rep here, mine was JET. So I wasted 2 yrs and the DRO is still incorrect. Plan on hiring a knowledgeable person to help. Whatever will have to be tuned. Good luck!

There is a long ordeal listed herein, but don't waste time on it, just read the above and spend the $$$. There are no options in my humble opinion. Been there, done that.

Mike

ps I am going to buy a mill this year from Matt.


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## Pacer

> I disagree about a Chinese machine being the best choice for a hobbyist.



I misspoke when I only said "hobbiest" - I should have said *newbie/beginner* hobbiest. I am a hobbiest, but I am a pretty experienced one. A beginner is going into a learning curve to just learn to operate his new machine, much less the necessary tool/skill to determine and then repair/adjust an older machine. And I certainly am not saying this as an across the board statement, there are obviously different situations. I am encouraging the newbie/hobbiest to go into his purchase after considering it from many different ways - his skill levels, tools he has or has access to, space to install, etc etc.


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## Chipbuff

I was condisering a G0709 in 12X36 for a long time. Backorders and delays got me looking at the G4003G. Some deciding factors for this machine instead of the G0709 was the fact that you had more thread choices without changing gears, the low RPM was 70 instead of 60 ( wish it was 80), and it was very well rated in all of the posts I could find. Back then there was not much info for the new G0709. I have not regretted my decision on the G4003G in any respect. It does a good job, very smooth and accurate, no binding anywhere, no vibrations, and very versitle. I do a bit of gunsmithing for my own rifles and accessories and have had great results. I am now in the beginning phases of building another Remington 700 in .243 for a Coyote gun. This lathe would not disappoint anyone looking for a small production, precision machine for hobby and simi-pro work. Chineese or not it is capable of far more than my limited knowledge and experience. Good luck with your decision.


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## dave2176

I'm one of those poor souls that bought a Grizzly. As a matter of fact I bought a G4003G lathe and a G0755 (RF45 clone) mill. I LOVE them both. These are the first metal working tools I have owned besides a small welder and drill press if they count. I am pleased with the fit and finish of them despite hearing how disappointed I should be. The gear boxes are very quiet to my thinking. I have turned and milled a ton of steel (literally) with them in the few months since they arrived and regulary hit the mark I was aiming for. Tolerances are consistently much less than .001. I'm not sure an American lathe would improve my accuracy. I would have no problem laying down the money for a PM45 or another PM product but I would want a copy of the manual to review to see if in my mind the product would fit my projected use. One of deciding factors for buying the G4003G was the Norton style gear box would cut all American threads without gear changes.

I would love American iron but it doesn't exist in Utah very often. When it does I don't or didn't have the knowledge or tooling to perform a complete rebuild that they need. Maybe in the future I'll consider driving across the country to collect something worthwhile. All this talk has me wondering about building a lathe from scratch. I know somebody who works in a foundry so that's a start. It would be American and have every feature I could want.

Bottom line I'm happy with my decision to buy Grizzly and would do it again.

Dave


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## epanzella

drs23 said:


> This is one of those "to each his own" kinda things. I can't comment on the G0709 specifically other than to repeat that the folks who have posted YouTube videos about them really seem to like them. I bought a G4003G. The first one was damaged in shipping and Grizzly sent me another one before I ever sent the first one back. I've had no issues whatsoever with it being "tight" in any shape, form or fashion. It's capable of way more than I am. I have a machinist buddy who is teaching me some of the ins and outs of running a lathe and he's been very impressed with it. I've since added a DRO and am now more impressed than ever. If I were you I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. Or you can hold onto your cash and wait for that perfect piece of NOS iron to fall into your lap. May happen, may not.


Another super satisfied owner of a Grizzly G4003G. Had no problems at all and can't believe how much machine it is for the money. The general rule of thumb is that people who have them like them, and people that don't have them, don't like them.


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## Senna

epanzella said:


> The general rule of thumb is that people who have them like them, and people that don't have them, don't like them.



And people who've used both a Chinese lathe and an American, Japanese, or European industrial quality lathe prefer the latter.

I look at it like either getting a brand new Chevy Cruze or a used BMW M3. Same money, infinitely better user experience and satisfaction. But if all you've ever driven is a Cruze then you don't know how much better the M3 is.

To the OP, do yourself a favor and at least look at a used industrial quality lathe. Even with shipping cost from anywhere in America ($400-$600 IME) added you still stand to get a ton more machine for the same or less money.

(Says the guy with a Craftsman lathe!!!))


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## epanzella

Quote Originally Posted by epanzella 
The general rule of thumb is that people who have them like them, and people that don't have them, don't like them.



Senna said:


> And people who've used both a Chinese lathe and an American, Japanese, or European industrial quality lathe prefer the latter.
> I look at it like either getting a brand new Chevy Cruze or a used BMW M3. Same money, infinitely better user experience and satisfaction. But if all you've ever driven is a Cruze then you don't know how much better the M3 is.
> 
> To the OP, do yourself a favor and at least look at a used industrial quality lathe. Even with shipping cost from anywhere in America ($400-$600 IME) added you still stand to get a ton more machine for the same or less money.
> 
> (Says the guy with a Craftsman lathe!!!))



Case in point.


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## Senna

epanzella said:


> Quote Originally Posted by epanzella
> The general rule of thumb is that people who have them like them, and people that don't have them, don't like them.
> 
> 
> 
> Case in point.



Oh, I've used several different Chinese lathes and a guy doesn't have to buy a Cruze to know the M3 is a far superior machine. Just driving both tells me everything I need to know.
Same goes for machine tools. A few laps with one is all I need to determine the superior machine.

I certain the Grizzly in question would be adequate but I'm just as certain a Cazeneuve would be much more than merely adequate.


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## Dog

I had a G4003 lathe and (for the money) it had a lot going for it. We should probably accept that at that price point perfection is going to be hard to come by. That being said there were serious (to me anyway) issues that need to be addressed. I too do gunsmith work from time to time and the most maddening thing was thread cutting. Vibrations would be transferred from the motor (which is mounted to the bed) into the work piece. I could get a pretty nice surface finish while cutting stock, but where it really had a problem was threading. The surface of threads looked faceted! (really bad) What eventually solved the problem was a combination of things. I had the motor rebuilt and balanced which helped some then isolated the motor on anti vibration pads. That finally got the threading to acceptable. If you do a search on this lathe threading is a common problem that guys struggle with. There were other things that needed to be sorted out but, unlike the threading issue, would generally come under the heading of sorting out a new lathe. In the end I sold the Griz. It just left a bad taste in my mouth after all I went through with it and I got a good deal on another lathe that I have been happy with. So, as with anything it depends on what your expectations are. You can’t expect perfection for the price Griz gets for these lathes. Expect the G4003 to be a “kit” with work needed in some areas and you will probably be alright. By the way, it’s not just Griz that has these types of issues with their Chinese lathes. A recent search on line about Jet lathes was a real eye opener for me.


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## Ray C

Dog said:


> I had a G4003 lathe and (for the money) it had a lot going for it. We should probably accept that at that price point perfection is going to be hard to come by. That being said there were serious (to me anyway) issues that need to be addressed. I too do gunsmith work from time to time and the most maddening thing was thread cutting. Vibrations would be transferred from the motor (which is mounted to the bed) into the work piece. I could get a pretty nice surface finish while cutting stock, but where it really had a problem was threading. The surface of threads looked faceted! (really bad) What eventually solved the problem was a combination of things. I had the motor rebuilt and balanced which helped some then isolated the motor on anti vibration pads. That finally got the threading to acceptable. If you do a search on this lathe threading is a common problem that guys struggle with. There were other things that needed to be sorted out but, unlike the threading issue, would generally come under the heading of sorting out a new lathe. In the end I sold the Griz. It just left a bad taste in my mouth after all I went through with it and I got a good deal on another lathe that I have been happy with. So, as with anything it depends on what your expectations are. You can’t expect perfection for the price Griz gets for these lathes. Expect the G4003 to be a “kit” with work needed in some areas and you will probably be alright. By the way, it’s not just Griz that has these types of issues with their Chinese lathes. A recent search on line about Jet lathes was a real eye opener for me.



Good point here...  Different types of lathes (in many cases) are better at certain things than others.  If you want to avoid/mitigate those problems, you really need to be looking at pro-line equipment.  The shop my father worked at had about 10 lathes (which were run two, sometimes three shifts per day, 6 days a week) consisting of a few each Leblond monsters and Leblond 16" units.  They also had a couple Monarchs.  Each machine had it's purpose as well as strong and weak points when they were used cross-functionally.  Sometimes, the 20" lathes were used to make the small dies usually made on the 16" machines.  They were dies to stamp lids and sides for soup cans.  (Each die had a lifetime of about 1 million stamps which meant making new ones every couple weeks).  Anyhow, the really big lathes didn't have the right characteristics to make the smaller dies and they struggled to meet the specs.

Incidentally, the monsters weren't used as much but the 16"ers never got a chance to cool off.  They were replaced about every 10 years even though they were very well maintained.  Anything that sees that much use wears out.

Anyhow, there's not only the issue of quality, there's the issue of using the right machine for the job.  Most hobbyist lathes have a 7" wide bed -which is nothing.  9 to 10 inch is where you start feeling and seeing the stability of the machine.  The weight and cost differences are considerable...

Ray

EDIT:  I misspoke above...  The dies were in continuous production day in and out.  There were hundreds of dies (varying sizes etc) and they all needed to be replaced every couple weeks.  BTW:  Making the dies was doled-out to the lower guys on the totem pole.  The more advanced guys made all the replacement parts for the machines consisting of spiraled gears, cams... you name it, all high precision stuff.


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## Sandia

The subject of "which is the best machine to purchase", is virtually impossible to address because of the variables involved. Used American versus all the others, in my opinion is not a simple question. There are issues that apply to some that will not to others. My personal experience, which by the way is limited as I consider myself as a learning hobbyist. None the less when I originally purchased my first lathe about 10 years ago, I searched for a used American machine, but being from south Texas I quickly discovered that I probably was not going to find anything soon, so I looked at the foreign market and choose a 13X40 Jet lathe which served okay as I was learning and it was trouble free, it was also the only brand I could go look at in person at a local supply store. I sold the Jet this year and bought a new Acer 14x40 which I dearly love, fit and finish and performance is fantastic. I had to drive 250 miles to Houston to be able to see the machine run and operate it but that was a must before I purchased again. Impressed enough to buy the Acer 3EVS mill which is a real pleasure to operate, (I can hear the power feed motor over the mill). Not touting the Acer brand just my personal experience.

 As Ray C has said the PM brand gets a lot of good reviews, so there are some options just not many.
Please excuse the long post.

Bob


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## Turnaround

Pacer said:


> I misspoke when I only said "hobbiest" - I should have said *newbie/beginner* hobbiest. I am a hobbiest, but I am a pretty experienced one. A beginner is going into a learning curve to just learn to operate his new machine, much less the necessary tool/skill to determine and then repair/adjust an older machine. And I certainly am not saying this as an across the board statement, there are obviously different situations. I am encouraging the newbie/hobbiest to go into his purchase after considering it from many different ways - his skill levels, tools he has or has access to, space to install, etc etc.



My skill (if any skill can be recognized) is wet grinding racing, small engine, and automotive crankshafts.  I have two grinders, both pretty worn.  I did make up a list of repair parts and asked for quotes.

The present owners, of each machine tool marque, should be provided with "get away horses" so they can flee the scene of their thefts.  They price repair parts like the aircraft or marine parts industry, which are on the order of ten times reality.  My new (four years ago) Harbor Freight 14 x 40 lathe has performed way past my skill level.  I have used little Southbends and other cast iron castings.  I have to say that by the time I got to use the American made stuff, their ways were gone, and they were not repairable by me (somebody that can scrape ways, maybe yes - but not me).  

 I had the occasion to order odd ball stuff for a Harbor Freight, round column drill/mill, and was amazed at the fill rate on my order plus how reasonable the charges were.  So it is the old story of my beloved American factories pricing me out of the market.  Soooo sad.


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## AzizaVFR

Cast Iron Daddy said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm considering the purchase of a Grizzly G0709  Gunsmith Lathe .  It's a 14 x 40 and is advertised online and in the published catalog .
> 
> Was wondering if any of you have any negative / positive input on this machime ?
> 
> They also list a similar 13 x 40 Floor lathe for more ( $ 4795  Vs 4495 ) which has a few less goodies and is smaller .  I don't really know why .
> 
> To the moderator :  If this is in the wrong place , I'm sorry .  Please move it to wherever it belongs .
> 
> Thanks a million guys !
> 
> 
> 
> Doug



Greeting Doug,

I have owned my G0709 for about a year now.  In that time I have experienced the following items:

1.  If you do buy it, be really nice to the delivery guy.  He might even help you roll it into the space it will be housed.  Upon delivery, the lathe is mounted to the stand, inside a giant box, to a pallet, connected to the shipping pallet.  A couple of furniture dollies from Harbor Freight are your friends once you get it on the ground.
2.  Order the matching DRO.  It was well worth the price.  The other option is to order the similar one from DRO-Pros, and get the 0.0001" scale for the cross-slide.
3.  Follow the break-in procedure, drain all the fluids and check for any and all leaks.  I had to seal around sight glasses in the headstock and the quick change gear box.
4.  I added four pieces of 1/4" hard rubber matting to the motor mounts to squelch the motor vibration from the headstock.  From the factory, it is solidly mounted to the frame.
5.  The piston style tool post was okay for its intended purposes.  I bought a wedge style to get a better grip on each tool holder.
6.  I have only had to adjust the gibs once in a year of service.


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## trukker

Doug,
As an owner of the G0709 I can say that I am happy with my purchase.  I am new to machining and this is my first lathe.  I have had it since April 2013.  My only complaint has been the paint.   It had overspray and less that great prep. The one time I called customer service they did good job and backordered a leaking gasket.  It has done what I needed it to do so far.  It was in stock so it was delivered in about a week.  Other similar models were 3-6 month out.  I do not expect I will outgrow it anytime soon.


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## jahjah

I bought a G0709 about 2-1/2 years ago after some consideration and visiting some owners of other brands as well. A classic rebuild was not currently in my game plan although I totally understand the reasons for doing that.  I spent about an hour working on the machine and discovered a problem with threading that I will not go into here.  I also installed a DRO.  Right after that I had a health diagnosis and left the machine alone until about a month ago.  Grizzly support has been exemplary and we discovered that my machine was in a small batch that were delivered with an incorrect gear in the easy change gearbox.(for metric country)  It was simple to remove the old one and I am waiting for the correct one, which has shipped (free).
  Now, with some time on my hands, I decided to investigate the setup and change the fluids as the manual specifies after running all the gears for a while.  I also had determined a few things I didn't like.
  The fluid change was uneventful but when I took the spindle gearbox cover off, while the oil looked new and the gears looked nice, there was a lot of dirt in the bottom.  I blew it out with a solvent sprayer.  The gasket on the cover was misaligned and partially blocked the hole for lubrication to run to the rear bearing, an SKF taper per the manual.
  The electrical buttons are mounted on the thin aluminum face plate and move dramatically when pressed.  I put an aluminum angle behind the face and pop riveted it on.  It is now very secure.
  When I took the front cover off the easy change gearbox, even though I had changed the oil, there was a lot of dirt in the bottom.  The gearbox itself looked nice.  Again, the solvent spray.  I also decide I didn't like the cheesy cover plates on the three gear change knobs because: 1) The knobs are put on with a center cap screw that is not tightened all the way because it will bind the knob.(Eventually I will shim so they can be locked down)  2) The ball detent adjustment hole is blocked.  The knobs themselves are substantial heavy items and I painted the original pattern on them and they look much better.
  I had noticed that while I was manually turning something with a dial indicator on the part that I could move the chuck about a thousandth just by pulling on it.  I decided to follow the manuals directions to adjust the spindle run-out.  I didn't want to buy a spanner wrench so I made one.  Then, I was looking for a plumbing part in my junk for another project and saw that a $7 garbage disposer wrench is the same thing, so I had two spanners which is much better than the manual's recommendation to have one.  The manual said to place a dial indicator longitudinally and after getting some free-play to tighten until the indicator stops.  That made no sense to me since you would have to go past to determine that so I put the indicator on the side.(after all it's a taper bearing)  I adjusted the previous run-out of .001 to .0001.  I ran it 20 minutes at high speed and it wasn't any warmer than the pre-adjust warm-up (barely warm to the touch).  Perhaps I could have removed the last .0001 but I left it at that for now.  The bore that the bearings is in is very tight and it took some spanner torque to move the spindle back into adjustment.  I think this is good.  It runs very smoothly by hand and by motor.  It was more difficult to move by hand before at times and it is quieter now.  I find that odd but there you have it.
  I decided to mount the 4-jaw chuck.  The quick release pins would not thread in far enough on 5 out of the 6.  Eventually, I determined that the threads were simply not cut as long as the pin threads.  There was dirt on the Acme threads and the jaws did not move easily.  I did not remove the gears.  I sprayed solvent and ran them with an impact gun at speed until they were clean.  I then ran the freshly lubricated jaws in and out with the gun for a while and then they moved very smoothly.  Tomorrow, I go to buy the tap since it is a size I don't have.  (The pins went in fine on the plate chuck)
  In summary, the Grizzly machines are not cleaned during or after assembly.  I think they get the parts with whatever junk is on them to prevent rust and just install them.  This is however, easily remedied with an $8 solvent sprayer.  I guess some people are using water based solvents or mineral spirits but I have a cache of actual cleaning solvent.  Also, they do not debur hardly anything that isn't visible.  I'm sure I will have more things to clean and adjust but in general I am happy with the machine for the $4k it cost me and very satisfied with the support on a machine that is technically well out of warranty.


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## visenfile

jahjah, Appreciate the published findings.  So the dirt is just "dirt," stuck to the cosmoline?  Did you try a magnet to see if the dirt was mixed with run-in dust?
           Please give a bottom line.  Would you buy again?  Sounds indeed like a kit as mentioned above. Sifting this thread is interesting , but cautionary to a 
           noob looking to buy Asian.  Trying to assess risk of used, but not too old.


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## jahjah

visenfile said:


> jahjah, Appreciate the published findings.  So the dirt is just "dirt," stuck to the cosmoline?  Did you try a magnet to see if the dirt was mixed with run-in dust?
> Please give a bottom line.  Would you buy again?  Sounds indeed like a kit as mentioned above. Sifting this thread is interesting , but cautionary to a
> noob looking to buy Asian.  Trying to assess risk of used, but not too old.



I didn't think to try a magnet.  There was no visually detectible metal shavings or chunks, I looked with a magnifier.  I am drilling plugs to install 1/4 X 1" neodymium magnets I ordered off of Ebay in the drain plugs.
I have done a number of other things, I will post when I get the new gear installed.  The most amazing transformation occurred when I adjusted the spindle end play.

At this point, I am quite enthused at the way things are working out.  So, Yes, I would buy again because of the value and support.  However, someone with the knowledge to buy used US equipment and to know what parts are still available and what parts are worn and all that, may be happier with a used machine for the same money and more time invested.  I don't think you can buy an Chinese machine and not have to go through it to some degree if you want it to work right and last.  SO, there is time invested in that too.

Jeff


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## coolidge

I recently purchased the smaller G4003G gunsmith lathe...and 5 other CHINA machines. You absolutely have to go through them cleaning, addressing assembly issues, and in some cases fixing minor issues or ordering warranty parts. 

Of the 6 machines one was near perfect from the factory, a Grizzly 12" tank like 5HP table saw $2,200 it was nearly flawless and setup so accurately at the factory there was nothing for me to even adjust. Cast iron table, fences, cabinet, flawless finish excellent paint excellent design. I have a Powermatic that cost a LOT more and its sad in comparison. The only thing I could find wrong with it was the stick on ruler on the fence was crooked at one end.

The G4003G lathe...I could fill a couple paragraphs with what I like, instead lets focus on the flaws first. The paint job sucks it comes from the factory with chipping paint and spots they missed painting altogether. I took the time to finish painting the stand, the chipping paint on the lathe meh it wasn't so bad that I felt the need to do something about it. The motor pulley is FAIL it wobbles enough that I'm getting belt dust building up and I'm using replacement made in USA Napa belts. The motor shaft is perfectly straight they just bored the pulley poorly. Grizzly is shipping me a replacement. It shipped with the wrong D1-4 4 jaw chuck, my lathe requires a D1-5, Grizzly shipped me the correct chuck. A couple of the CHINA tool holders had crooked tapped height adjustment studs. A few loose bolts and screws not many, pull the electrical box cover off the motor some of the screws connecting the wires were loose on mine. I went through the main electrical box tightening, most were fine. Design wise the drain plug for the headstock is located in a retarded position, the spot most likely to get oil all over the place. That's about it.

The good, shipping was perfect, arrived on time and without any damage but I'm only about 4 hours south of their warehouse. Its well crated. Drained the oil after the break in procedure, no metal whatsoever in the oil. Leaks less than I thought it would. Turns accurately, my brother has some fancy tool for checking spindle to tailstock alignment it was so close we didn't feel the need to try adjusting it further. The machine was leveled first with a machinist level. I have a few hours on the machine now, maybe 20 and it seems to work just fine. Probably the toughest thing I have machined so far is a big huge chrome 1.5 inch socket I had to turn the OD down to fit another job, finish was really nice on that. I tried to turn a 5/8 grade 5 bolt..FAIL even the C6 carbide wouldn't cut that stuff.

I have been watching craigslist for many months both before and since I purchased this lathe. What I see used in this price range man most of them look like they have had a hard life, of the few people even bothered to clean up half of them had rattle can paint jobs. My brother has been a machinist for 25 years or more, he warned me the problem with buying and old used American lathe or other non-Asian lathe besides parts availability is a lot of them have worn out ways. When he purchased his he had to go through a bunch of them before finding one worth buying. I recent purchased a USA made machine from 1952, not a lathe but big heavy cast iron. Cost me less than $200, I was pretty excited...$1,000 later and after weeks of work I finally got it into service. Had I know how much it was going to cost and how much effort it would take I would have gone with a new machine. It ended up costing about the same.

That's my 2 cents worth.


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## visenfile

Jeff, thanks.  I really get whipsawed around on the asian machines because of the roulette wheel chances of minor vs major problems.  What I mean is another thread where  a member completely dismantled a Grizz with the help of this forum, looking for the source of chatter, and finally (desperation) sold it. In my brief review of used Asian the threshold seems around half price of new.  Since competition is really fierce (?) among vendors it seems the asian machines should be getting better. A reason to go new (if affordable), and go Taiwan for the ?25%  extra.  Just my nooby observations.


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## jahjah

Sorry for the duplication with some of the previous post.  I have a working machine and a fair amount of new information.  SO...
Grizzly G0709
  I chose this model because it has a slightly larger bore through the spindle, which did not sound like a bad idea.  I’m not a gunsmith and don’t offer any advice thereof.
  I chose a Grizzly for several reasons:  I had purchased an classic American made lathe on a friend’s recommendation only to find a lot of parts worn out and no replacements available.  I contacted other companies and visited owners of other Chinese machines.  In general, pretty much everyone had problems of some sort.  Grizzly owners were getting the best support.  Several people swore by Grizzly knee style milling machines.  Grizzly had the most comprehensive web site, parts and accessories availability and the best manuals.  The manuals have great photos that are labeled clearly.  Many manuals are poorly translated English and stick drawings.  Other companies all said Grizzly was their biggest competition.  Nobody claimed to be better than Grizzly.  One guy who purchased another brand was actually told after he had a problem that to do any repair on his lathe under warranty, it would have to go to back to China and actually take a year at least.
  So, I bought it, but what did I get?  My situation is a little unusual.  I had a health diagnosis a couple months after I received the Grizzly.  I knew that I wanted a DRO system so I purchased one with magnetic scales from DRS Pros.  The installation went very well and I love that thing.  I followed the installation and break in instructions in the lathe manual.  I had a little project and I could not get the thread dial to work correctly.  A machinist friend confirmed something was wrong with the lathe.  I called Grizzly and they were looking into it when I got sick.  Two-1/2 years later, a little shop worn but healthy, I resumed my G0719 odyssey.
   Thanks to Grizzly support, I realized that the threads were very slightly the wrong pitch.  So slight you pretty much need longer than a standard thread gauge to tell.  In a combined effort, I identified a gear that was the wrong number of teeth.  My parts manual was different from the web download manual and when I took the cover off, I confirmed it.  It turns out a small batch was shipped with a wrong gear.  I wasn’t notified.  The gear, per Grizzly, was matching a metric lead screw for other countries.  They shipped me a correct replacement for free.  I had removed the old gear.  It was simple.
  In the mean time, I started to investigate quite a few things about the lathe and this document will describe them.  First however, I have to say that to my detriment, I had only casually glanced at the rest of the easy change gearbox.  As I started to install the new gear, I realized that one of the other gears was seriously thrashed.  In general, most of the gears showed some sign of being abused while the lathe was running.  I never shifted anything unless the machine was dead stopped.  The one really bad gear was so impacted that it had pieces hanging off the gear teeth.  I suspect it was not hardened correctly or at all or was an inferior material to the others.  I believe the gears were shifted while the lathe was still moving at the factory.
   I heard a lot of stories when I was looking at other brands.  I actually had a several hour talk with a guy whose company makes Chinese machine based CNC milling machines.   He said every shipment of base machines is a crap shoot even after 5 years of trying to improve relations and quality control.  It seems that Grizzly is not immune to it.  I have requested a replacement gear.  (Follow up, Grizzly covered shipping but not the $27 gear)
  As long as we are in the gearbox:  the bottom of the gearbox was covered with dirt.  It appears the factory does not clean any parts before assembly and whatever rust protections and all the debris caught in it become part of the machine.   This was after I had replaced the fluid following the careful break-in described in the manual.  (What a joke).  Secondly, virtually none of the set screws in the gearbox were actually screwed in all the way.  Some are pointed, some are a pin style that may be intentionally set loose but in my gearbox, they were all out several turns.  This probably also contributed to the damage.  Finally, the front case cover was leaking from when I received the machine.  The three top dials are covered with cheesy aluminum stick on disks.  The disks cover the center screw.  These screws actually cannot be tightened because they will bind with the next inboard part, so they have to be adjusted.  They had no locking glue or anything to retain their loose position.  Same with the other hole covered, used to set the tension on the detent balls.  I eliminated the covers and duplicated the paint scheme on the face of the dials themselves, which are almost uncharacteristically substantial.
  The headstock:  When I changed the oil in the headstock, the bottom was filthy, the same as the gearbox.  I cleaned it with a solvent spray, the same as I cleaned the easy change gearbox.  The gasket in the top cover was pooched toward the inboard side, covering the channel that lubricates the rear spindle bearing.
  The Apron:  I have not taken the Apron apart yet.  I’m sure it is filthy as well and I will do it fairly soon when I figure the easiest way to go about it.
  The Tailstock:  The tailstock works fine but the chuck it came with is a POS.  The chuck key does not even fit it.  When I measured it, the tailstock was off by about a thousandth.  I figured it could easily be perfect.  I soon found out that the two seemingly simple adjustment set screws, that are the only thing positioning AND HOLDING the tailstock, had a couple interesting characteristics.  First, they do not work intuitive.  Secondly, they do not have enough precision for the job.  When they get close to tight, they are likely to change direction on the dial indicator you are watching to make the correction.  At one point I was cursing myself for not leaving it alone.  However, I eventually got it to zero detectible error.
  The live center:  I give this its own section rather than including with the tailstock because it’s problem are numerous.  Disassembly is easy.  That’s about the only good thing about it.  The housing and end of the center shaft were rusted.  The bearings used are very low quality ball bearings.  There is a spacer that has a recess in it so that it only spaces out the outer race without touching the inner.  No brainer there, but only one side of the spacer is surfaced.  The other side looks like a stamped out washer and has about 50% contact.  The grease that was in there looked more like dried up boogers than anything you could call a lubricant.  This was the reason I disassembled it when it quit spinning after about 5 minutes of work.  I thoroughly cleaned it and assembled it.  It now seems to be working ok, but due to the cheap nature of the bearings, it has a limited lifespan.
  The Spindle:  When I was measuring a part, I realized that every time I manually pulled on the chuck to rotate it, I was getting a one thousandth axial deflection.  I decided to follow the manual’s instructions to adjust the spindle endplay.  This turned out to be one of the best decisions ever.  First, I needed a spanner wrench so I made one because I didn’t want to wait for one to be delivered, or pay for it for that matter.  Coincidentally, I found a cheap forged plumber’s spanner in my toolbox for kitchen sink drains that is the same size.  So, I then had two, which is kind of necessary unless someone is helping you that can blunt chisel the retaining nut on.  I ignored the manual’s instructions to put the indicator on the spindle face and used the side instead because I could apply sideways force to read the play of the tapered bearing.  This worked out very well.   The manual’s way would require you make it too tight, IMO.  Every time I adjusted it, I had to run it for 20 minutes to see if it overheated.  When I finally got to .0001, I decided to go with that for now.  From .001 to .0001.  It ran at least as cool as it had before I started.   I may have achieved close to .000 but somehow, the bearings lost 90% of their resistance after my last adjustment and I didn’t want to lose that.  Now I can easily spin it with a finger when disengaged or in a higher gear.  Somehow, the bearings have taken a seat that is dramatically better.  It is a pleasure to handle now.  And remember, no heat generated.  The spindle stays cool and the housing is only slightly warm after 20 minutes of highest speed running.  If anything, it’s cooler at .0001 than it was at .001.
  The Cross Slide:  I took this completely apart to clean it and try to reduce the backlash of .012.  The gib had been hand scraped, which I found interesting.  It turns out that you absolutely cannot use the lock set screw as it immediately locks the slide up (even though I had drilled a hole through my DRO scale for the wrench).   The end adjusting screws work well though.  About .007 of the backlash was in the front of the screw where the bearings are for holding the screw in position.  These are inexpensive bearings for a fairly important job.  This is easily adjusted with a set screw in the middle of the handle (reference 646).  The manual does not describe this adjustment that I could find.  So, I had .005-.006 actual backlash after I took the clearance out of the handle.  I found it to be impossible to improve upon this with the sliced nut adjustment.   I had made a tool so I could adjust it without removing the retaining bolt.
  The Compound slide:  Seems to work fine, eventually I will clean it as noted for the Cross Slide.
  The electrical system:  The control panel is a very flimsy thin gauge aluminum cover.  I pop riveted (4) an aluminum angle to it to fit in the pocket that the switches fit into.  (Approx.  .032 X ½ X 1” X width)  The first time I used the brake, it worked very well but the machine turned off and then would not reset.  This tuned out to be the micro switch attached to the linkage in the lower left compartment.  A factory worker that didn’t have a clue inappropriately positioned it and the switch arm was bent around itself.  I straightened it and put it in an appropriate position.  It now works fine.  The manual says that you only have to switch the spindle ON/OFF lever to the central position to reset but you also have press the Power Button.  Otherwise, the electrical system, motor, switches, relays, have been fine.
  The 3-Jaw Chuck:  The three jaw chuck came with a faint primary position indication that consisted of a faintly stamped 0 (zero) on the spindle and chuck.  I could hardly see it and could not feel it.  I installed round head brass pins I made that are visual and tactile.
  The 4-Jaw Chuck:  The screws would barely turn on the chuck.  I removed the jaws and flooded with solvent while I turned the screw fast with a 3/8” impact wrench.  I then ran the jaws in and out a dozen times or so, each, with the air impact.  Then I could easily run them in and out by hand smoothly.  Then I realized that the outer edges of the chuck where the jaws insert were as sharp as a knife.  With a small stock inserted, these edges could take a hand off if careless or even cause quite a gash when manually turning the chuck.  I ground and sanded the edges to a smooth touch.  Clean and lubricate again.  Now, it was time to screw the locking pins in and insert their rotation lock screws.  Five out of six would not go in far enough.  (there is an index line)  The 3-jaw and plate chucks did not have this problem.  Eventually, I resolved that the threads were simply not cut far enough into the chuck.  The next day I bought a $17,  12.1 metric bottom tap because I did not have one.  That cured the problem.  When mounting, I only had to turn one pin out a thread.  One of the locking screws did not engage the pin properly.  This is dangerous because if the pin rotates, it is possible that you might not be able to can get the chuck off.  I put a lock washer that was the same size as the head under the head and that solved it.
  The External Gear Set:  This set allows three arrangements without additional gears.  This is cool.  However, the gears are time consuming to change and adjust.  I was told and sent a picture of a broken bracket.  I’ve smoothed the sharp edges.
  Would I buy the machine again?  Up to finding the thrashed gear, I was saying yes.  Now, I honestly would have to say, only if I planned to take it completely apart and resolve the inevitable problems.  I know some people have purchased these lathes and swear by them.  Maybe I got a machine that was poorly assembled on top of having the wrong gear.
  Drain plugs:  I purchased ¼ X 1” neodymium magnets off Ebay.  They are amazingly strong.  I took a brass ½” NPT square head plug and center drilled for the magnet.  The magnets turned out to be harder and more durable than I expected and I was able to press the magnet into the plug with a press fit.  
  Covers:  The cork gaskets seem to be a problem for leakage and positioning.  I installed them with “fuel lube”.

  I have a fair amount of pictures of the things mentioned here.  I posted them to Photobucket.  PM me if you like and I’ll send you the link and password.

  I really like the Grizzly folks and their philosophy.  I just suspect they have become somewhat powerless over quality with their Chinese counterpart.  They bring machines to thousands of people that can’t afford new American made machines and don’t know how or want to consider used equipment, and don’t need production rated equipment.  Unfortunately, the buyer has to work some on the machine to make it work correctly.  I think most people think a new machine will be usable when delivered but I think you might be better off expecting some problems and necessary modifications such as with a Harbor Freight item.


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## coolidge

Great write up JahJah, you are located just across the river from me I'm up Battle Ground, WA. I think the moral of the story is Made in CHINA. My brother was looking at used Mori Sieki, it was beautiful I wanted one but it was 4x what I paid for my G4003G. I will say this, $3k - $5k range I know I'm going to be buying CHINA or Taiwan and understand what that means quality wise. Once I get to the $10k - $25k range no way I'm buying CHINA or Taiwan because I don't think the quality improves even at that much higher price point.


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