# Early Atlas 7shaper



## NCjeeper (Jun 25, 2018)

Hey everyone. I picked up an early Atlas 7 shaper and trying to find some info on it. There doesn't seem to be a lot out there. Mine does not have the table support at the bottom and no wipers for the ways. Trying to date the machine. Anybody point me in the right direction for some info? I have already checked the usual sites and google.


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## francist (Jun 25, 2018)

My 1945 catalogue shows the foot already in place, so yours is prior to that. How far I'm not sure, I'll see if I have an earlier catalogue or ad. I believe they were introduced in 1938.

-frank


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## NCjeeper (Jun 25, 2018)

Thanks Frank. My motor is also a 1/3 HP and Says "Dunlap" and at the bottom of the plate says "Sears & Roebuck".


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## francist (Jun 25, 2018)

Well, 1939 catalogue illustrations show no foot and the 1941 catalogue shows the foot. So somewhere in between is yours, assuming that the  illustrations were somewhat current to the publication they appeared in. Got any pictures you want to post of it? Maybe somebody else will recognize a particular feature. I have a small shaper, but not the Atlas one.

-frank


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## wa5cab (Jun 25, 2018)

NCJeeper,

Sears didn't begin selling the Atlas shapers and mills until 1953.  So the fact that your motor has a Sears nameplate merely means that the OO bought the motor separate, or the motor isn't original to the shaper.  Perhaps more likely the former, as the Dunlap name disappeared after about 1943.

The Atlas 7 (and 7A which was the same except no belt guards) first appears in the November 1937 Atlas catalog No, 28..  It last appears in the 1940 catalog No, 40 which was printed in November, 1939.  Catalog No, 41 is undated but the shapers listed in it are the 7B and 7AB (no guards).  So the probable production life of the 7A was November 1936 through November 1940.  So four years.  The only serial number that we have for a 7 is 001226.  The earliest 7B serial number is 2038.  So assume that between 1500 and 2000 Model 7's and 7A's were made.  From your serial number (which you did not give), you can calculate roughly when yours was made.


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## NCjeeper (Jun 25, 2018)

Thanks for the info Robert. Any idea where the serial number would be? I couldn't locate any tags on it other then the round "Atlas" ones that are so worn you cant read them.


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## westsailpat (Jun 25, 2018)




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## westsailpat (Jun 25, 2018)

http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlasshaper/


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## NCjeeper (Jun 25, 2018)

westsailpat said:


>


Yep that's it. Thanks Mark.


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## wa5cab (Jun 26, 2018)

I don't know where the serial number was located on an Atlas Shaper.  On the lathes of the period, it was stamped into the top of the front way at the right end.  All that I can say is that we have 41 shapers in the database.  Three are Sears, one is a 7A, one is a 7AB and the rest are 7B's.  The database lists serial numbers for all except one 7B.  From which, knowing the penchant for former owners of machines to remove removable name plates and forget to reinstall them, might indicate that the number is stamped somewhere.  Perhaps another Atlas Shaper owner can say.


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## westsailpat (Jun 26, 2018)

Hey NCjeeper , is your table-drive ratchet cast iron or ZAMAK ?


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## brino (Jun 26, 2018)

VintageMachinery has 280 reprints available as PDF documents.......I did NOT go thru them all.
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=51&tab=3

7" shapers with the table support:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3563
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3444
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=13990

...and some photos, without the table support:
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=32701

-brino


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## NCjeeper (Jun 26, 2018)

westsailpat said:


> Hey NCjeeper , is your table-drive ratchet cast iron or ZAMAK ?


Not sure I will have to check.


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## NCjeeper (Jun 26, 2018)

I cant post photos since photobucket required a ransom from everyone. I can take some and send them to a forum member if they have the ability to post them.
Also checking it out more thorough I found the number "10" on the back of the body behind the motor. It is not a cast number but was added after. Could this be the serial number and this actually be number ten?


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## NCjeeper (Jun 26, 2018)

Its cast iron.


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## NCjeeper (Jun 26, 2018)

Thanks Brino. Looking at the early photos of the one restored, Mine looks like that except my table is not open at the bottom it is a cube. Also I have the 2 small round atlas badges not a rectangular one. This is starting to get interesting.


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## francist (Jun 26, 2018)

Will this help? Kind of goofy, but it says if there's no separate plate the serial number can be found on the left frame way. It is from a later parts diagram than yours, however. I just thought it might be a long shot.




That's really weird that you can't post photos here -- you're a Premium Member with lots of posts. What's up with that?

-frank


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## NCjeeper (Jun 26, 2018)

Here we go.


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## NCjeeper (Jun 26, 2018)

More.




That's were I found the number "10"


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## NCjeeper (Jun 26, 2018)

Motor


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## brino (Jun 26, 2018)

Great photos, Thanks!

Just be careful around those open belts.

-brino


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## NCjeeper (Jun 26, 2018)

Yeah I have the guard off because it was damaged by the previous owner and needs repair at the hinge.


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## westsailpat (Jun 26, 2018)

OK , now I have leg envy. I so want a pair of those legs . Also I'm starting to get a little nostalgic for a shaper as that was the first machine I learned to use in high school metal shop .


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## wa5cab (Jun 27, 2018)

The appropriate location for machine serial and model numbers and other info on specific machines is the top thread in the sticky area at the top of this Forum.  If you wish, I can just move your post up there.  When I get time, I'll add them to the database, the master copy of which is kept on one of my local hard drives.  Two or three times a year, I update the copy in Downloads, and in the Files area of the Atlas-Craftsman Group at groups.io (this is the Group that used to be on Yahoo).

From the photo of the page in Frank's earlier post, it would appear that your serial number should be stamped somewhere on the left side of the machine.  I am not certain what the "Left Frame Way" is, but would assume that it is one of the three (I think) ground ways on the machine, almost certainly in an area that nothing slides over.


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## NCjeeper (Jun 27, 2018)

I found it! It was covered up with grime so that's why I couldn't find it. #1202.


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## wa5cab (Jun 28, 2018)

Well, despite the fact that it isn't on the left side, I don''t know of anything else that it could be.  If we assume that 1750 7A's  were made. that would put yours around October, 1939.


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## NCjeeper (Jun 28, 2018)

Yeah I was searching all over the left side of the machine and couldn't find it. On a whim I decided to wipe the right side down and there it was. Anyways thanks for dating it.


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## wa5cab (Jun 28, 2018)

OK.  At least we now know where to look on a Shaper that never had a nameplate - near the top of either the left or right knee way.

Could any other owners of any model Atlas shapers that DO have a nameplate with the serial number stamped on it please look in the location shown above (both left and right) and report your model, serial number and whether or not the S/N was also stamped on the knee way?  Some of the early lathes did have it both places, but apparently not many.


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## Rob (Jun 28, 2018)

On my 7B SN 8989 that is not the case.


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## C-Bag (Jun 28, 2018)

On my 7b  SN 012199  has no numbers on the knee casting either. This placement thing of left and right side was one of those things we had a problem with cars. It was decided orientation was from sitting in the drivers seat. In this case with the SN it makes sense it would be on that knee as that's the side you operate from.

Can anybody give me a clue why my SN is longer? Are you only supposed to pay attention to the last 4 numbers?


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## Silverbullet (Jun 28, 2018)

Still it's a nice machine , can't believe I owned one forty years ago and sold it for $125. Complete machine with cast legs and all working really well. Another kick in my own butt moment. YUPP young an dumb ...


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## C-Bag (Jun 29, 2018)

Silverbullet said:


> Still it's a nice machine , can't believe I owned one forty years ago and sold it for $125. Complete machine with cast legs and all working really well. Another kick in my own butt moment. YUPP young an dumb ...



All us old dudes have those kinds of moments but it's hard to scale to the present. $125 40yrs ago is probably worth over $1,000 now and back then I could buy VW's in good shape all day for $300. Those same cars today are going for over $20,000! So it's hard to track with stuff that was common and seen as obsolete. 

I also defied the trend and bought my complete 7b (except for the motor belt cover) for $125 last year in an estate sale.


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## NCjeeper (Jun 29, 2018)

C-Bag said:


> This placement thing of left and right side was one of those things we had a problem with cars. It was decided orientation was from sitting in the drivers seat. In this case with the SN it makes sense it would be on that knee as that's the side you operate from.


Only thing is if you look at the old Atlas repair parts list manual they say that's the right side. Weird. Maybe it was 4:59 on a Friday and the worker just slapped it there and clocked out for the weekend.


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## wa5cab (Jun 29, 2018)

Yes,  that could be it.  But before forming any conclusions, we need 5 or 6 more examples at least.  But we only have two that we know the serial numbers of and one of those, we don't know where it was found.


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## wa5cab (Jun 29, 2018)

OK on no stamped S/N on the knee way.  Actually, the left-right definition as pertains to wheeled vehicles, boats and ships dates back at least to the 15th Century.  And has been applied in the same way on aircraft since the beginning.  Note that it doesn't depend upon which side the driver is on (although the term "driver's side" does).  However, the shape and location on the drawings of the few "handed" parts (those where there was a left hand and right hand part) clearly indicate that to the Atlas designers at least, left and right were as you would see if standing at the front of the machine with the motor on the far side from you.

Since at least the early 1940's, all Atlas serial numbers have been 6-digit, with leading zeros as needed.  Early 10F lathes did not have the leading zeroes stamped and the one Model 7 Shaper that we have a photo of the serial number on doesn't.  But all 7B nameplates that I've seen photos of the nameplate of have had the full six digits.  This practice continued through at least 1980.  There are three 7B nameplate photos at the bottom of Page 12 in the Serial Number thread in the Sticky area.


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## brino (Jun 29, 2018)

wa5cab said:


> Actually, the left-right definition as pertains to wheeled vehicles, boats and ships dates back at least to the 15th Century. And has been applied in the same way on aircraft since the beginning. Note that it doesn't depend upon which side the driver is on (although the term "driver's side" does). However, the shape and location on the drawings of the few "handed" parts (those where there was a left hand and right hand part) clearly indicate that to the Atlas designers at least, left and right were as you would see if standing at the front of the machine with the motor on the far side from you.




I once got a really weird look from a veterinarian when I said our dog had a problem on his "front drivers side paw".
It was perfectly clear to me, but I guess NOT universal.
I just could not bring my self to say "his left front paw", as I am sure the dog had no concept of left and right.

-brino


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## wa5cab (Jun 29, 2018)

Well, be glad that you weren't in the UK.  He would have inspected the wrong paw.  Unless you remembered to tell him it was his Off Side paw.


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## workingsteam (Dec 31, 2019)

wa5cab said:


> NCJeeper,
> 
> Sears didn't begin selling the Atlas shapers and mills until 1953.  So the fact that your motor has a Sears nameplate merely means that the OO bought the motor separate, or the motor isn't original to the shaper.  Perhaps more likely the former, as the Dunlap name disappeared after about 1943.
> 
> The Atlas 7 (and 7A which was the same except no belt guards) first appears in the November 1937 Atlas catalog No, 28..  It last appears in the 1940 catalog No, 40 which was printed in November, 1939.  Catalog No, 41 is undated but the shapers listed in it are the 7B and 7AB (no guards).  So the probable production life of the 7A was November 1936 through November 1940.  So four years.  The only serial number that we have for a 7 is 001226.  The earliest 7B serial number is 2038.  So assume that between 1500 and 2000 Model 7's and 7A's were made.  From your serial number (which you did not give), you can calculate roughly when yours was made.



My 7B Atlas Shaper has a serial number of 001824 and has a foot.


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## wa5cab (Jan 1, 2020)

OK.  Got it.  Atlas made around 14000 7's. 7A's, 7B's and 7AB's and an unknown number of 101.16000's, which are all 7B's..  I would guess that your 7B was made around 1941.  The foot wasn't present on the 7.  It was added sometime between 001226 and 001750.  The 7 and 7A did not have the foot.  The 7 and the 7B came with all of the belt guards.  The 7A and 7AB did not.

CORRECTION to what I wrote some time ago and that workingsteam copied forward:  The Dunlap badge disappeared after 1943 from the 109.xxxx lathes.  Sears didn't do a Power Tools catalog between 1944 and 1947.  In the 1948 catalog, the 109.20630 carried a Craftsman 80 badge.  But motors, grinders and a few drill presses continued to carry the Dunlap badge for the cheaper ones and the Craftsman badge for the more expensive.  With a few Craftsman 80's badges in between.  So my conclusion about when the motor on NCJeeper's machine was bought may not be correct.


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## Booter (Jun 17, 2020)

Hiya folks,
First post to this forum.
I am currently refreshing an Atlas 7B shaper. It came out of Ohio a few years back and has been sitting in my shop waiting for the right time to work on it. Hope to have it operational again within two weeks. It was a complete takedown.
The machine's Serial number is 002455. It has its guards, which is what you'd hope for, with a 7B. Nothing major needed fixing, but it definitely has done its fair share of work over the years.
Have a couple of lathes and a couple of mills (one an Atlas horizontal) but there are just some jobs that a small shaper is really good at. So, I plan to be keeping it for a long time.
Will post images when she's done. In the meantime, here are a couple of what it looked like when it came home with me... the last digit on the serial number plate is a light stamping, so it is not so easy to read that particular digit.
I am near Toronto, Canada.
Thanks for looking
Jeff


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## brino (Jun 17, 2020)

Welcome to the group @Booter!

-brino


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## WCraig (Jun 18, 2020)

Welcome from Oakville!

Craig


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## Booter (Jun 18, 2020)

Thank you, Craig and Brino.
Nice to be welcomed ... that feels good.
Craig, I see you're in Oakville.
I am over by Burloak.
Brino and Craig ... from the information published with your avatars, it's clear you both are serious about your involvement here. Bravo, both of you!
Brino, I see you're in Almonte ... betcha you can see the Milky Way where you are, you have such beautiful skies there, in Eastern Ontario.
I look forward to participating and contributing.
Jeff
PS: Today's task: Get the knee back on this machine ... lol


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## brino (Jun 18, 2020)

Jeff,

Yes the night skies are incredible.
We are far enough from Ottawa (and the Almonte town limits) to have good darkness.

I haven't seen any fireflies yet, but this year we have some owls serenading us most nights.

-brino


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## wa5cab (Jun 19, 2020)

Booter,

Welcome aboard.  I've added your machine to the master Atlas database.  I usually update the on-line copy in Downloads every month or two.  In the meantime, if there is any information that you wish to add (for example accessories that came with it (if any), whether it had the original stand, etc. feel free.


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## Booter (Jun 19, 2020)

Hi wa5cab ...... thanks for the reach-out. 
And thank you for adding this machine to the master Atlas database.
No accessories with it, unfortunately. Still, grateful to have it here.
The knee is back on it. Hopefully, tomorrow the ram and, with luck the motor, etc. on Sunday.
Then .... just maybe ... it will come back to life -- after who knows how many years.
Woo hoo!
 Jeff


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## Silverbullet (Jun 24, 2020)

Hi n welcome , good group to be in


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## Booter (Jun 24, 2020)

Thanks Silverbullet.
Much appreciated.
------
BTW ... was just reading over some older posts on the Atlas shaper and there was some back-and-forth on serial numbers.
I wonder if anyone can toss out any suggested vintage for the machine that is here. It is a 7B, Ser. No. 002455.
The ratchet case is Mazak.
----
The machine is ... basically, redone and ready (almost) to work.
During the final hour of reassembly, a couple of days ago, I discovered that a previous owner had remanufactured a couple of parts in the ratchet case. The job was 'good enough" -- but not good. So, I'll be remaking a couple of parts. However, first, I have to weld up the new stand for the machine.
Overall, I am very well pleased with how the shaper cycles and adjusts.
Thanks
Jeff


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## vocatexas (Jun 24, 2020)

I have been meaning to take a look at my shaper's tag since I noticed this thread, and just remembered to do so a short while ago. My shaper is a 7AB, serial number 001750. It does have all the belt guards. It has the rod for the foot, but had no foot when I got it a couple of years ago. I can find no serial number stamped on the machine itself. The ratchet case is mazak, zamak, or whatever the pot-metal alloy is called.


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## wa5cab (Jun 25, 2020)

Technically, Zamak is not pot metal because pot metal is any of a bazillion slightly different lead alloys.  Ideally, Zamak contains no lead.  And in fact, contamination of the Zink with lead is generally thought to be the cause of Zink pest, which causes the failure of Zamak parts.  Also, it appears that the specific Zamak alloy used by Atlas was Zamak V.

If the Serial Number is stamped on the name plate, it does  not appear to be found anywhere else on the machine.  Given the propensity for new owners to remove nameplates when disassembling a machine for painting and to never bother to reinstall them, we have an unfortunately high percentage of machines that, with the exception of 10" and 12" lathes with Timken spindle bearings built prior to about 1952 cannot be roughly dated.  The database has one entry for serial number 001202 saying the the S/N is stamped on the front of the right knee way.  Serial Number 003493 and several higher numbers have a note saying that the S/N is NOT stamped on the way.  Anyone on here with a shaper S/N between 001202 and 003493 please report whether your machine does or doesn't have the S/N also stamped on the knee way.

The presence of the "A" in the model number on your nameplate means that when originally shipped, it did not have any belt guards.  Good job on someone's part in finding and installing the appropriate guards.  Best guess for a date is 1941.


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## Booter (Jun 25, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> Anyone on here with a shaper S/N between 001202 and 003493 please report whether your machine does or doesn't have the S/N also stamped on the knee way.


For sure ...  
Thanks for the poke in this direction. Meant to do this earlier ... my apologies.
- This shaper is a 7B, Ser. No. 002455. 
- Year of manufacture unknown.
- It does NOT have the stamped number on the knee way. 
If this site would like images of the Ser. No. Plate and the knee ways, just let me know pls.
-------
Roger on the word 'Zamak'. 
Also, this machine has the support shaft/runner on its knee.


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## wa5cab (Jun 26, 2020)

OK  Thanks.  Revised serial number range question is:

Anyone on here with a shaper S/N between 001202 and 002455 please report the model and serial number and whether your machine does or doesn't have the S/N stamped on the knee way and doesn't or does have it stamped on the nameplate.

Booter, does your machine have the original Atlas vise and crank and/or horizontal indexer?  Photos of your machine are of course welcome but I don't think really necessary for this purpose.

All, I think those were the only two accessories for the Atlas or Craftsman Shaper other than various tool holders.  If I've missed any, let me know.

Current high serial numbers are 013838 for the Atlas 7B and 000409 for the Craftsman 101.16000.


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## Booter (Jun 26, 2020)

wa5cab said:


> ... does your machine have the original Atlas vise and crank and/or horizontal indexer?


Unfortunately, no vice-and-crank, and no indexer either.
Just the machine's own crank.
Cheers


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## wa5cab (Jun 27, 2020)

OK. The  crank for the shaper itself is the same as the one for the shaper vise (S7-100).  So if you should happen to stumble across the Shaper Vise, it will most likely not have the crank with it, but that won't matter much.

After looking this morning at the latest Shaper parts manual that we have, I am reminded of the third accessory that was available for the shaper, which is the Rotary Index Table (vertical indexer).

Unfortunately, although the same three accessories are available for the Atlas Horizontal Mill as for the Atlas Shaper, they are not interchangeable.  However, they do at least use the same crank (S7-100), same open-end wrench (S7-429) and same Base Key (S7-99).


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## ErichKeane (Jun 27, 2020)

You c an get the crank handle on Ebay here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/164227906791  Its a newly made one that are pretty great!


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## wa5cab (Jun 27, 2020)

Carr-Lane used to make one that was usable as a substitute.  But last time I looked, it wasn't listed.


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## vocatexas (Jun 27, 2020)

I found a real nice vise for mine thanks to one of the members here sending me a Craig's List ad a year or so ago. It came with the handle. My shaper has a short shaft for the table elevation, so I bought a 3/8 inch drive speeder wrench at NAPA and a double female square drive adapter and use it to crank the table up and down.


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