# Labor Cost of  Restoration



## Kroll (Oct 31, 2013)

Afternoon guys,well guys my next project(I hope) is to restore a 10"SB that has the metal cabinet w/drawers to show room condition and get paid for doing it.Now,what lead to this is I really want a Heavy 10"-13"SB for myself but its just out of my league when it comes to the money side.Well I have two 12" Atlas that I restore to what I like and I just don't need two lathes so I decided to sale one and use the other lathe till I hit the SB jackpot.The first person that came to look at the atlas purchase it commented about how good it look.So after the dust settle he had called and ask what I would charge to restore his SB to show rm condition,with the understanding that all I provide is the labor.Well guys I love restoration work of vintage machines cause I have a garage full of woodworking machines.I want to do it probably more than what he does cause I enjoy it but I want to make money to put towards my very own SB.I want to be fair about the price for both of us but I need the SB funding.Now the lathe came from a school district so it has been in dry storage for several yrs and as a whole the lathe and the cabinet looks good.Just alittle rust on the back side of the cabinet and where the tubing that touch the floor is alittle rusty.This will be taken apart down to the last screw,cleaned to a shine then every part will be primer w/couple coats than couple coats of finish paint.So my question is,if you were facing a lathe in good condition,taking complete apart,painting,making it really to enjoy to the point as if it was for yourself what would you charge or what would you be willing to pay for this service?I know there is alot of varibles but just your best guess keeping it fair.---kroll


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## stevecmo (Oct 31, 2013)

Kroll,

Wow, you talk about a can of worms!!:thinking::thinking::thinking:  Are you sure you know what you're getting yourself into?

How many hours did you spend on each of your Atlas resto's?  I didn't keep track when I did my Logan, but my first guess would be around 100 hours on the low side and 160 hours on the high end.  That was spread over over about four months.......so only an average of 6-10 hours a week.  If you're talking a cabinet model, that's even more hours.  What is your time worth?  I love rebuilding machines, but they're MY machines.  It's pride of ownership and a labor of love knowing I'll be able to enjoy that machine forever.

Would you do this for minimum wage?  Or $10 / hour?  What about any missing parts or parts that need replacing (broken gear teeth, bearings, felts, etc.).  You know from experience that you burn thru quite a few bucks in supplies - degreasers, mineral spirits, Scotch Brite pads, Evaporust, paper towels, gloves, paint, brushes, etc., etc.  

I guess what I'm saying is that for what I would have to charge, for the time away from my family, no one would be willing to pay the price.  I understand wanting that bigger SB.  Is there any possibility to pick up some overtime at work?  Or some temporary work during the holidays?  

Maybe it's just me.  :nuts:

If you've cool with it.....go for it!  :thumbsup:


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## Dave Smith (Oct 31, 2013)

kroll--I think you should ask the man what the top dollar he is willing to pay---put the ball in his court and if he thinks he is going to get a super job for $200 tops---then you can determine if you would do it for this amount or tell him how much more it would cost for your services. maybe he is thinking of a higher or lower amount--at least you can get the info from him so you can decide.--That would be my way----just reread your thread and I came up with another method---ask him if he would like to trade his SB for your showroom restored atlas-if not--offer some money plus your atlas--if he doesn't go for that, then put ads in CL for a swap for a SB like you want for lathe plus money to boot.--then all the work you put into restoring a nice SB will be for your own lathe------Dave


:thinking:


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## Ray C (Oct 31, 2013)

In addition to superficial restoration, does the customer expect mechanical adjustment such as fixing the ways, leadscrew, bearings, gears, re-etching the dials?  Work-out the details and deliverables up-front lest you find yourself in a dispute...


Ray


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## Al 1 (Oct 31, 2013)

Kroll,
I have been working in the home remodeling field for about 37 years. 98 % of my jobs are by contract.(written agreement) As per all the questions that you have, It sounds like a good idea to stay away from rebuilding, refurbishing, someone elses machine.
Just my thought.  Al.


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## Kroll (Oct 31, 2013)

Thanks for all the ideals,but I can't stay away cause I am going to try and find one like his for myself so i will be learning what to do and not do when I get to my lathe trying not to make the same mistake twice.For the most part,its just take it apart and do a good cleaning,replace parts that needs to be replace then some paint and as for the ways,as is.Guess I should have said refurbished,I'm figuring at lease a months worth of time.While we talk,he said that there will be no out of pocket expense on my part,he will provide all materials.But I'm still going to figure in about 200 for miscellaneous materials such as sanding pads,wire wheels,and evaporust.Thanks for all the suggestions----kroll


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## Pacer (Oct 31, 2013)

I did a SB Heavy 10 about a year ago with a rebuild as you describe - down to the last screw/nut. While it was likely in worse condition than the one you describe, some of the many things I ran into I can easily imagine you finding a few of also. I am retired and I also do these machines for the fun and love of it, but there is no way I could have charged for what I did to that lathe. I had something over $3000 in expenses, knowing I missed many unknown costs - sandpaper, cleaning materials, bolts/nuts/washers, etc. I 'guesstimated' I had some 350-400 hours into the build. I made from scratch many of the needed parts - while there are a good many parts still floating around, the one or two thing you really, really need are just simply not out there, or you cant wait for them to get around to showing up. 

Here a pic of just one example I ran into - I made all those gears and all the shafts (bought the lead screw)


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## schor (Oct 31, 2013)

Ask the person how much they are willing to pay and then you tell him how much you will do for that money.


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## joebiplane (Nov 3, 2013)

[QUOTEthe point as if it was for yourself what would you charge or what would you be willing to pay for this service?I know there is alot of varibles but just your best guess keeping it fair.---kroll[/QUOTE]

Kroll,
I am somewhat like you as to enjoying the refurb of these lathes ( 10" Logans and  9" South bends)  I find that after getting them ready to sell I have invested about 70-100 hours and about 400-500 in parts, paint, supplies, etc.  and $400-$700 for the origional machine that got refurbed.  I only invest in machines that have  quick change gear boxes,  very good to excellent ways   and do not appear to be abused...i don't buy basket cases.   I usually wind up  selling the finished product at around $ 2,000 dollars  for a profit for my labor of about $10.00/hr   some of my work can be seen at *oldetimemachines.com*  ( don't forget the "E"  in olde)

Best of luck 
Joe Larsen


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## xalky (Nov 3, 2013)

Speaking for myself personally, I wouldn't do it. :whistle: I have 3 machines here, They're oily and they got nicks in them. Mechanically they're in tip-top shape. I try to buy them mechanically sound when I get them. I clean them up. I tweak them and adjust them. I make and /or buy a few parts to get them the way I like em. Then I put them to work! 

I think i blew my load on restoration work when I restored a 70 Nova SS back in the 80s.:whiteflag: 

It took me 5yrs nights and weekends, and roughly $16,000 to build and restore that car into a show car. I had my blood sweat and tears into that car. Then one summery Saturday night, I had a little too much to drink and ran the car into a guardrail.:jester: TRUE STORY. 

Now my philosophy is to have things that serve me and not the other way around. Oh yeah, and I quit drinking.:LOL:


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## rafe (Nov 3, 2013)

I'd look at his south-bend and see if it's worth trading one of the ones you have for it .....
I wouldn't do another persons lathe for any amount of money .. you are asking for problems .....In my humble opinion.


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## itsme_Bernie (Nov 3, 2013)

First I was going to say "go for it, if you have time, it doesn't matter if you make much per hour if it's fun"...   But I think you would have a lot more fun rebuilding your OWN!  Keep your eyes peeled for a real heap, pay next to nothing, and go crazy!  They are out there!



Bernie


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## Kroll (Nov 9, 2013)

Guys I forgot about this post,will I did not listen sorry.Today the lathe show up and guys its not that bad,paint peeling,lots of old oil and maybe gear grease.I'm jealous cause its not mine and it has the taper attachment,carrage stop,Aloris TP,needle dial plus thread gage(I don't know what to call it.Anyway I was not going to start on it till I'm finish w/12" Atlas which the new owner wants all his machines to match in color,so I'm repainting it.
Reason behind all this is I have a Clausing coming to my house end of next week so doing the SB for pay will help fund the Clausing,and I enjoy doing it.Anybody know where I can get a manual,I am going to order a kit off of ebay that is made for the SB 10L lathe---kroll


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## cuseguy (Dec 5, 2013)

I have done 5-6 SB's now and the figures of 100 hrs in labor and 500 bucks in parts, paint and cleaning supplies is very accurate. It is not an easy 100 hours either, but it is strangely enjoyable. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3


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## dfwcnc (Dec 5, 2013)

I don't have an answer for you, other than every man has his price, some higher than others.

If you love doing the work, you have the time, and want to do it, then your price would be lower than someone that does not have these attributes.  Knowing the work and time I put into my machine, you're in for a major job.  I rebuilt my Atlas 618 and my SB10 was easily five times the work to achieve similar results.  Scarey.  

Atlas 618











My South Bend project can be seen here: (still repainting a door and panel. Picky-picky!).
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/show...y-SB10-HEAVY-quite-the-beast-she-is-pretty-to


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## schor (Dec 5, 2013)

I can't seem to find a manual for that 10L

I did find this.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page4.html

Maybe even contact southbend and ask them if they have a manual.


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## itsme_Bernie (Dec 5, 2013)

Kroll said:


> Guys I forgot about this post,will I did not listen sorry.Today the lathe show up and guys its not that bad,paint peeling,lots of old oil and maybe gear grease.I'm jealous cause its not mine and it has the taper attachment,carrage stop,Aloris TP,needle dial plus thread gage(I don't know what to call it.Anyway I was not going to start on it till I'm finish w/12" Atlas which the new owner wants all his machines to match in color,so I'm repainting it.
> Reason behind all this is I have a Clausing coming to my house end of next week so doing the SB for pay will help fund the Clausing,and I enjoy doing it.Anybody know where I can get a manual,I am going to order a kit off of ebay that is made for the SB 10L lathe---kroll



I will look on my hard drive tomorrow (I'm on iPad now), but there is also a guy selling manuals, and wick- sets on Ebay.  The book is a complete rebuild of 10L.  Great to have.

I purchased a whole set of wicking material and the book, and some other stuff for around $75 if I am remembering.  Really worth it.

Bernie


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## cuseguy (Dec 6, 2013)

This is your guy for the rebuild manuals and kits... stevewb....
Here is his ebay page   http://www.ebay.com/usr/stevewb    I just ordered the Dean SB Spindle grease from him tonight to finish up my latest project. And in the past 2 weeks I used the 10L rebuild book and kit you speak of....on this...my new baby. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3


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