# PM 950



## Batmanacw (Sep 6, 2020)

First post. I apologize for my somewhat abrasive manner up front. I do want cut through to the point quickly.


I have read every thread in this forum that included the 950 or 949. I have seen lots of people saying not to bother with the 950 because it has a Chinese casting and is completely inferior to the 949.

I am looking for actual experience with the 950 and any accuracy or reliability issues that have been directly experienced. Quantify what was more accurate and reliable about the Taiwanese casting

I already know Taiwanese machining is generally better than Chinese. That does not answer the question I'm posing. I've seen very good machining from China. It's all in the expectation of the company doing the importing.

Whatever machine I buy will be lightly used in a hobby shop making money occasionally. The cost is a huge factor. I've been making accurate parts on a Harbor Freight round column mill drill for 25 years.... it is time to upgrade but I would rather have rough-around-the-edges than a bigger payment. 

I currently own a PM 1030 and I really like it inspite of the roughness.


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## mksj (Sep 7, 2020)

The issue is not that Chinese machines cannot be made well, it is that they are often made to a cheaper price point and some things are given up to get to that price point. If all things were equal and they were cheaper, you wouldn't see so many people buying Taiwanese machines, myself included. There have been a number of previous threads from owners of the PM-950, and they have been happy with their mill (see below). They both use Taiwanese heads, so the differences is in the body fit/finish, physical travel distances, tolerance wise they have similar specs. with regard to spindle TIR and table tolerances. The level of measurable difference would be more operator based then machine. With the increased tariff's the price difference is only $100-200 for the TV version, the TS is not in stock. but would be $300. Major difference would be the warranty of an additional 2 years on the PM-949. Availability may be more of a determining factor. You could PM some of the owners and get their direct current opinion if they do not chime in here.









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## Batmanacw (Sep 7, 2020)

mksj said:


> The issue is not that Chinese machines cannot be made well, it is that they are often made to a cheaper price point and some things are given up to get to that price point. If all things were equal and they were cheaper, you wouldn't see so many people buying Taiwanese machines, myself included. There have been a number of previous threads from owners of the PM-950, and they have been happy with their mill (see below). They both use Taiwanese heads, so the differences is in the body fit/finish, physical travel distances, tolerance wise they have similar specs. with regard to spindle TIR and table tolerances. The level of measurable difference would be more operator based then machine. With the increased tariff's the price difference is only $100-200 for the TV version, the TS is not in stock. but would be $300. Major difference would be the warranty of an additional 2 years on the PM-949. Availability may be more of a determining factor. You could PM some of the owners and get their direct current opinion if they do not chime in here.



You might be looking at a different mill than I am. The 950 is $6800. The 949 with the dro and X axis feed is $8400. 

Saying they cost $200 different is a bit disingenuous. Those are things I will end up needing to buy immediately. 


Once you pass the initial cost, the decision comes down to trusting PM to sell a quality machine. Can I trust PM to require reasonable quality from their Chinese supplier.  Maybe not as good as the Taiwanese stuff, but accurate is accurate even if less than perfect fit and finish. 

This is really the core I've my query.


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## 7milesup (Sep 7, 2020)

Batmanacw said:


> Saying they cost $200 different is a bit disingenuous.
> 
> Once you pass the initial cost, the decision comes down to trusting PM to sell a quality machine. Can I trust PM to require reasonable quality from their Chinese supplier.  Maybe not as good as the Taiwanese stuff, but accurate is accurate even if less than perfect fit and finish.


There are multiple threads on here regarding the service and quality of PM machines.  You either need to read the threads or contact the owners via PM as mkjs suggested.  You own a 1030 from them.  That is representative of their Chinese machines.  I have an 833T and the finish is better.  
 The highlighted sentence above sounds like you already answered your own question.


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## mksj (Sep 7, 2020)

You asked about the base machines, the cost as as listed on the site. Add-ons on either machine could be the same or you can upgrade to whatever level you want and spend as little as as much. You asked for direct experience, I have worked with hundreds of people that have bought these mills and others, I have heard directly from the horse's mouth. I have had and worked on numerous mills and also have direct experience with the difference between Chinese and Taiwanese machines, even had a Chinese mill that I sold and purchased a Taiwanese. You can buy a DRO for $200 and an X-power feed for $300, so OK lets call it a $600 dollar difference. I made it clear that based on your previous level of experience that you would not see a difference between the miils, I would recommend you buy the PM-950.


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## Batmanacw (Sep 7, 2020)

7milesup said:


> There are multiple threads on here regarding the service and quality of PM machines.  You either need to read the threads or contact the owners via PM as mkjs suggested.  You own a 1030 from them.  That is representative of their Chinese machines.  I have an 833T and the finish is better.
> The highlighted sentence above sounds like you already answered your own question.



My lathe cuts accurately. As long as the 950 does I'll be happy with it. Again, more the Indian than the arrow.


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## Batmanacw (Sep 7, 2020)

mksj said:


> You asked about the base machines, the cost as as listed on the site. Add-ons on either machine could be the same or you can upgrade to whatever level you want and spend as little as as much. You asked for direct experience, I have worked with hundreds of people that have bought these mills and others, I have heard directly from the horse's mouth. I have had and worked on numerous mills and also have direct experience with the difference between Chinese and Taiwanese machines, even had a Chinese mill that I sold and purchased a Taiwanese. You can buy a DRO for $200 and an X-power feed for $300, so OK lets call it a $600 dollar difference. I made it clear that based on your previous level of experience that you would not see a difference between the miils, I would recommend you buy the PM-950.




As you may know, even machines made in the same factory can be made to entirely different standards. 

This is why I ask very direct questions. Not to be annoying but to cut through all the speculation and group think. 

That is why I'm seeking actually experience with the 950. The quality of another brand of Chinese mills is not a representation of PM Chinese mills. That is why I am searching for answers. 

If someone jumps on here with horror stories about the base castings being junk or out of spec I'd spend the extra money on a Taiwanese machine. 

I'm a jerk but not trying to be one here.


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## ArmyDoc (Sep 13, 2020)

I would send a PM to Firstgear, he bought one last year.  Jlwwade, or Icrepairs also have the 950, but haven't posted in a while, so I don't know if they are still here or not.  
I think this is the type of things they are referring to on the Chinese products.  https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/found-this-on-the-ways-of-my-new-mill.82035/


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## Batmanacw (Sep 13, 2020)

ArmyDoc said:


> I would send a PM to Firstgear, he bought one last year.  Jlwwade, or Icrepairs also have the 950, but haven't posted in a while, so I don't know if they are still here or not.
> I think this is the type of things they are referring to on the Chinese products.  https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/found-this-on-the-ways-of-my-new-mill.82035/



My PM 1030 had a small bad spot in the casting on the ways but it isn't raised and it hasn't bothered anything. I can deal with that sort of thing.


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