# What Happened to Ingersol Rand



## Janderso (Apr 9, 2021)

IR 10HP, 35CFM, 2 stage, 3 phase air compressor. 120 galloon tank.
OK, now you know the product.
We have run Ingersol Rand for decades. This is the 2545 pump. These are rated for 100% continuous duty.
Purchased new in July of 2018.
This is the first pump from India. All the others ran 10 years or more, made in USA.
They get IR synthetic oil changes. We have alternate starts with it's companion compressor -(older made in USA).
I bought another one against my better judgement.

Ingersol Rand,
We don't mind paying for quality, that's why we buy the IR brand.
Maybe it's time to switch.
When we spend $5,000 for a machine that should last 10 years or more, we have higher expectations.


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## Gaffer (Apr 9, 2021)

It sounds like your compressor went toes up - bummer. We like to hope that when something like this happens, it's an uncommon and random failure. But, when we see a once-great company sliding downhill, it's sad and disappointing but is a fact of life. I hope it's not the case with IR, but companies like them have to keep their shareholders happy and profitable. This typically involves outsourcing and other cost-saving strategies that negatively impact a once-great product. As you've experienced, after all the cost savings for the company that benefitted them and their shareholders, you still paid top dollar but for an inferior product.


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## Janderso (Apr 9, 2021)

Well said Mr. Gaffer sir.
I fired off an email to customer service at Grainger. Maybe IR will step up and help out with the expense??


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## Gaffer (Apr 9, 2021)

That would speak volumes, and I hope they do! Let us know, please.


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## Janderso (Apr 9, 2021)

Gaffer said:


> That would speak volumes, and I hope they do! Let us know, please.


I have low expectations


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## mksj (Apr 9, 2021)

The last couple of years I have seen quite a few more complaints about the IR piston compressors durability, and for that matter many of the major brands lower end compressors. There are still a few brands that seem to be a bit more durable and fewer complaints with regard to their pumps, but QC is becoming more of an issue. The industrial line of compressors from Quincy, Champion, Saylor-Beal, Curtis, etc. still seem to be decent, and with a pressure lube should last decades. I have a smaller champion compressor HR5-8, which I am pretty happy with but had a few small issues from a QC point, my prior compressor was a Curtis and it was well built and durable. Curtis Masterline and Quincy QR-25 would be at the top of my list for durability but at a price point.


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## Janderso (Apr 9, 2021)

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200370984_200370984
		


This is comparable, about the same price. I see the warranty is only one year. Oh well, IR's 2 year warranty didn't do me any good.


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## mksj (Apr 9, 2021)

Many compressor manufacturers have extended warranty depending on the model and if you use their extended care products.
QT extended warranty kit https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200626533_200626533
Quincy QR-25 and Curtis Masterline series is 5 years, Champion industrial line is prorated over 5 years









						FS-Curtis Masterline ML10 10hp UltraPack Air Compressor Unit - Air Power Equipment OKC
					

*ONE UNIT IN STOCK IN ST. LOUIS (200V/3PH) *Free freight is dropped shipped from the factory direct to your 48 State Destination This does not include liftgate service or residential delivery.   Pressure Lubricated  USA Made  Motor Starter  Aftercooler  Low Oil Stop Switch  Vibration Isolators...




					www.aircompressorcfm.com


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## Janderso (Apr 9, 2021)

mksj said:


> Many compressor manufacturers have extended warranty depending on the model and if you use their extended care products.
> QT extended warranty kit https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200626533_200626533
> Quincy QR-25 and Curtis Masterline series is 5 years, Champion industrial line is prorated over 5 years
> 
> ...


I like the pressure lubrication!!
I noticed some of those duplex pumps from Curtis are rated at over 50,000 hours. The IR splash units are 15,000.
Boy, an extra grand or two up front sure gets you more machine.
I should have waited.
This problem goes to my replacement. I am on my last year here>>-Giggle-grin!


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## aliva (Apr 9, 2021)

I have a Gardner Denver 20 CFM 2 stage intercooled, for over 30 years. Still going strong.


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## Larry$ (Apr 9, 2021)

I had two Curtis 10hp recps. They hung in there well. I had one of them overhauled by the dealer, crappy job. it failed in less than a year. When we needed more air I bought a Curtis 25hp screw direct from the factory. There is nothing good about it. Poorly designed, multiple failures. Oil (synthetic) & filter changes as recommended. OTH Our Quincy 40hp screw vacuum pump @ 22 years is still going strong. It did get a new motor several years ago.


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## matthewsx (Apr 9, 2021)

I’ve been really happy dealing with my local compressor service company. They carry Quincy (I don’t own one so it’s not a recommendation) but mostly they service all brands so they are up on who’s building quality.

I know you run the shop at your dealership and with so many mechanics on staff it probably goes against instinct to have someone else do work you can do in-house, but it wouldn’t hurt to talk with your local compressor guys.

John


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## Papa Charlie (Apr 9, 2021)

In my last business, I bought the Sullair Rotory compressor. This was a great compressor, although very expensive. Don't remember but I think it was the 20HP unit and ran us north of $10K. But it ran 18 hours a day, 5 days a week with no issues except for one.
This unit had a radiator in the front to cool the air and remove water before it went through the drying systems. The dust and powder paint that escaped the system would get pulled into the radiator as it pulled the air through the radiator and across the compressor and motor. Over time the heat would cause the powder to cure and with the dust in the fins. A real pain to clean out. Had to remove the radiator twice a year to send it out for dipping. 
Not really the compressors fault. More that we could not mount the unit outside and so it was subject to everything floating in the shop.


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## Janderso (Apr 9, 2021)

aliva said:


> I have a Gardner Denver 20 CFM 2 stage intercooled, for over 30 years. Still going strong.


I think all the older industrial grade compressors were bullet proof.
We bought a rebuilt IR heavy duty compressor back in 1989. It replaced one that sounded like the African Queen -nock-a-knock-a-knock.
We had that for at least another 15 years. 
Oh, and the African Queen, one of the guys that worked here said it was there when he started back in 68.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 9, 2021)

We're putting out 8.5 million to IR and Atlas-Kopco over the next 2 years . The reason why you can't satisfaction with IR is because we have kept them all busy lately .


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## projectnut (Apr 9, 2021)

Janderso said:


> IR 10HP, 35CFM, 2 stage, 3 phase air compressor. 120 galloon tank.
> OK, now you know the product.
> We have run Ingersol Rand for decades. This is the 2545 pump. *These are rated for 100% continuous duty.*
> Purchased new in July of 2018.
> ...



A 100% duty cycle would give me pause.  Most industrial motors, pumps, compressors and refrigeration systems are rated for a 115% to 120% duty cycle.  Even then when run at 80% to 90% with regular maintenance they fail or need major overhauls in 10 years or less.  In this case the compressor life is stated to be 50,000 hours.  That calculates out to 5.7 years.  Not much for a $4,500.00 machine.

I know my compressor is running on borrowed time.  It's a 1965 Kellogg 311.  The nice thing about it is almost all rebuild parts are still available.  I purchased a head and valve overhaul kit nearly 4 years ago thinking it was getting close to time for a refurbish.  Everything is still in the box and the compressor keeps pumping away.  I thought I had a leak in the tank, but it turned out to be a bad regulator on a cheap HF water separator.


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## Hozzie (Apr 9, 2021)

I bought a 7.5HP/80 gallon Emax Silent Air a little over a year ago.  Have been very happy with it.  Made in the USA.





__





						Industrial Air Compressors | Air Compressor Tools | Emax Compressor
					

Emax Compresssor carries a wide line line of industrial air compressors and extreme duty air compressor tools to meet the most demanding work environments.




					emaxcompressor.com


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## Janderso (Apr 9, 2021)

projectnut said:


> A 100% duty cycle would give me pause.  Most industrial motors, pumps, compressors and refrigeration systems are rated for a 115% to 120% duty cycle.  Even then when run at 80% to 90% with regular maintenance they fail or need major overhauls in 10 years or less.  In this case the compressor life is stated to be 50,000 hours.  That calculates out to 5.7 years.  Not much for a $4,500.00 machine.
> 
> I know my compressor is running on borrowed time.  It's a 1965 Kellogg 311.  The nice thing about it is almost all rebuild parts are still available.  I purchased a head and valve overhaul kit nearly 4 years ago thinking it was getting close to time for a refurbish.  Everything is still in the box and the compressor keeps pumping away.  I thought I had a leak in the tank, but it turned out to be a bad regulator on a cheap HF water separator.


I originally looked at it like you. You must consider these pumps only cycle/run a few times per hour. My understanding of duty cycle is running 100% of the time= never shutting down.
I think we all know, there is no way these pumps can run non-stop.
The oil pump version vs. splash lubrication is huge.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 9, 2021)

We're running 26 IRs and Atlas Copcos in here at the plant . Most are 200HP compressors and all are aged ( other than the ones we just had rebuilt) . The cap ex is in the budget for the next 2 years to replace them all . Ours never shut down , run 24/7 365 days a year and all are past the 50,000 hour mark . We run them on a cam system so they kick on and off as air requirements demand more or less . Most of the time they are all running . 25 % of them are for HP plant air while 75 % are low pressure 40psi for our furnaces and extruder lines feeding the dies . Not a night goes by without some kind of issues with them .


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## mmcmdl (Apr 10, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I have low expectations


So does my wife , and I've met all her expectations !


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## Janderso (Apr 10, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> We're running 26 IRs and Atlas Copcos in here at the plant . Most are 200HP compressors and all are aged ( other than the ones we just had rebuilt) . The cap ex is in the budget for the next 2 years to replace them all . Ours never shut down , run 24/7 365 days a year and all are past the 50,000 hour mark . We run them on a cam system so they kick on and off as air requirements demand more or less . Most of the time they are all running . 25 % of them are for HP plant air while 75 % are low pressure 40psi for our furnaces and extruder lines feeding the dies . Not a night goes by without some kind of issues with them .


200hp!!
What kind of amp load does that power demand?
That is industrial might my friend.
Holy pressure cooker Bat Man.


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## Janderso (Apr 21, 2021)

Man, this just isn't meant to be.
We finally got the unit delivered, I had the electrician come out to install it. He says, they put the wrong starter on it.
??. It has a 460 starter.
I checked the compressor order, it's clearly 220 input voltage.
We just swapped it off the defective unit.
Hopefully this one will last longer than 2 1/2 years.

Do you guys in the rest of the country need a permit to operate a pressure vessel?
The first thing we do is notify Cal-OSHA that we need a new permit.
It's new for crying out loud.


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## Larry$ (Apr 21, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Man, this just isn't meant to be.
> We finally got the unit delivered, I had the electrician come out to install it. He says, they put the wrong starter on it.
> ??. It has a 460 starter.
> I checked the compressor order, it's clearly 220 input voltage.
> ...


No permits required here. We are left unprotected! You lucky guys living in California are protected from all sorts of things that I didn't even know I needed to be protected from.


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## Janderso (Apr 21, 2021)

Larry$ said:


> No permits required here. We are left unprotected! You lucky guys living in California are protected from all sorts of things that I didn't even know I needed to be protected from.


Oh boy, we have stickers on posters reminding us of all the ways we can die in this state.
It is rather silly.


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## Papa Charlie (Apr 21, 2021)

@Janderso I hope they will be sending you the right motor starter. You paid for a new air compressor, not a short block that you need to take parts off of your old unit to make work.

The degree of incompetence today is overwhelming. They charge you for Platinum service and give you wood shed performance.

I saw a drop of oil yesterday coming from under my truck. Crawled under to see what is going on and the entire bottom of my truck is covered. Looks like the shop I had do the oil change on my diesel didn't do something, Grrrr! I have had to take my truck back a couple of times to have the shop fix the work they did. This is over a couple of different shops.


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## Cadillac (Apr 21, 2021)

Here’s a compressor I saw at a auction awhile back. Loving engines I had to take a picture of it. MONSTER


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## Janderso (Apr 22, 2021)

QUESTION??

The new compressor is side by side the old one. These are identical.
The new one takes 1:45 to come up to pressure. The older one takes 1:20.

The new one runs much warmer. I would say the old one is warm bath water. I can easily hold my hand on the head. The new one-no. Don't get me wrong, it's not real hot just much warmer than the other unit.
Is there a break in period where it will get more efficient? Or did we get another lemon?
These are 36CFM at 175PSI. Two 120 gallon tanks and probably 1,000 feet of pipe. They alternate starts.
What say you?


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## Papa Charlie (Apr 22, 2021)

The additional heat may be a product of the tighter new unit and may become more like the older unit as it breaks in. So too with the time it takes to come up to pressure. Maybe the piston rings need to seat in to the liners and may speed up. 

Of course it could be that they are not the identical unit or that all units are not equal. Let's hope it is a matter of break in.


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## tq60 (Apr 22, 2021)

Call the vendor and ask them to come out and verify everything, they can do that when they install the correct starter.

It should be warranty time so easy money for them no charge to you.

Insist on it as you need to document it just in case.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Janderso (Apr 22, 2021)

tq60 said:


> Call the vendor and ask them to come out and verify everything, they can do that when they install the correct starter.
> 
> It should be warranty time so easy money for them no charge to you.
> 
> ...


A funny thing,
I bought these through Grainger. I've been a loyal customer for quite some time.
I discovered McMaster Carr a couple years ago and have been sending more business to McMaster.
I contacted Grainger about the pump that was just out of warranty. They were kind enough to give me the customer service email for Ingersol Rand. Gee, I hope I didn't put them out.

I immediately contacted IR. I haven't even had a follow up email from them. You know, thanks for reaching out, we'll get to you soon!!
NOTHING.

Charlie, I hope you're right.


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## Papa Charlie (Apr 22, 2021)

Janderso said:


> A funny thing,
> I bought these through Grainger. I've been a loyal customer for quite some time.
> I discovered McMaster Carr a couple years ago and have been sending more business to McMaster.
> I contacted Grainger about the pump that was just out of warranty. They were kind enough to give me the customer service email for Ingersol Rand. Gee, I hope I didn't put them out.
> ...


I maybe, but I would take the time to send IR Technical an email and describe what you are seeing. This way you have a paper trail that shows you have brought this to their attention should things go south later.

Also, make sure that you document the motor starter. They have a limited cycle life, they should provide a brand new unit that should have been in the unit to begin with. You should not accept them swapping the old one to make it work.

This email should go to Grainger, IR and if there is an independant service tech that did the start up. This way you can point to the fact that you have notified them  and if they choose to do nothing it is on them.


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## Dabbler (Apr 22, 2021)

I was lucky to find an Atlas Coppco compressor through the classifieds that was made around '68.  Built like a tank.  Weighs 500 lbs, for a 5HP 80 gal unit.  Got it cheap because the large pulley was broken.  Since it was made in Belgum, and that plant burnt down, there are no drawings for the custom taper that pulley mounts on. Just one more tweak before I fix it and use it for the rest of my life.  

Yes it will be internally inspected with a  camera and pressure tested. The internal surface will be recoated after that.  I'll also be running it at 90 PSI instead of its rated 175 PSI, as it will have way more air than I need.  --another vote for 'they don't make them the way they used to'...

I love old iron!


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## Tim9 (Apr 23, 2021)

It never hurts to call and get on record for a possible warranty issue. If you're on record complaining about heat build up and it goes belly up a week past warranty... You do have a better chance of getting them to work with you. 

That said, I personally think a new compressor will build up more heat because its new and will probably work better and run cooler once the rings seat and the machine breaks in. Just make sure you change the oil after the break in period if that's recommended .


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## Janderso (Apr 23, 2021)

OOPS,
I rechecked the Quick Start Manual-Preliminary Installed Stationary Reciprocating Air Compressors-
There is nothing in there about a break  in period.
I went online to find best practices.
It is suggested to run it for 30 minutes with the service valve open to seat the rings.
We'll do it Monday morning, couldn't hurt.
Why isn't it in the start up guide?
!@#$%^&*()!!grr


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## tq60 (Apr 23, 2021)

Janderso said:


> A funny thing,
> I bought these through Grainger. I've been a loyal customer for quite some time.
> I discovered McMaster Carr a couple years ago and have been sending more business to McMaster.
> I contacted Grainger about the pump that was just out of warranty. They were kind enough to give me the customer service email for Ingersol Rand. Gee, I hope I didn't put them out.
> ...


Still good.

Via phone book or web page, look up your local service center.

Many better dealers are authorized warranty providors so they respond and bill manufacturer.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Illinoyance (Apr 23, 2021)

Ingersoll Rand used to make industrial quality compressors and air tools.  Now they seem more focused on mass market consumer goods.


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## Tim9 (Apr 29, 2021)

Years ago… even automobiles had a special low viscosity oil for break in periods. The manuals went into specific instructions on how to drive the vehicles for the first 500 miles.
  After that 500 mile period… one had to change the oil to the specific grade of oil for the region they lived. In the south, it was straight 30 weight oil.
  But, now oils and lubricants are so much superior than just 30 years ago. Plus manufacturing is so superior too. The results are that it’s nothing for a 4-cylinder engine in an economy car to run for 300,000 miles with just minimal maintenance. Change the oil a couple of times a year and don’t let it overheat… and you are good to go.
   That said… you won’t harm anything by changing the oil with the recommended oil. Just make sure that you don’t put detergent oil in it if it’s recommended to use non-detergent oil.
  Another good trick is to drill out a small hole in the drain plug a glue a magnet in there. It keeps any ferrous metal castings from circulation.
   And…. If you’re lazy and not anal like me…. Just leave it alone. It’s probably still going to outlast both of us.


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## Tim9 (May 2, 2021)

All this talk got me thinking about my poor Nissan Hardbody. 275,000 miles and I know its been over 2 years since I changed the oil. Wow...time flies.
So... I changed the oil and filter and drilled out my drain plug to accept a magnet. LOL

Heck...I bet you this magnet will get me another 100k miles.


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