# What are the odds of getting two bad arbors?



## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

So I received a poorly made saw arbor from McMaster.  After reporting this to McMaster, they sent me another SA-1000 arbor.  It has the same problem!  The screw hole in the arbor is not in the center.  The first arbor screw hole had a TIR of 0.036".  I haven't yet measured the second arbor.  Just like in the first arbor, the second arbor's SHCS jams against the counterbore of the arbor cap.  This causes the arbor cap to no longer to be square to the arbor critical surface.  

I don't want to keep bothering McMaster, when it is Sierra American's quality problem.  McMaster sent me this replacement arbor at no charge.  I received the replacement in one day!  Too bad it is not a good part.  

I'd like companies like Sierra American to survive, but they won't if they continue to ship junk.  I think I will end up contacting them to complain.  I know I can fix this by boring a hole in the right place and putting in a larger screw, but I shouldn't have to, especially a product that is selling for over $50.  The second arbor as received did not have the screw seated fully.  It couldn't be seated, because it was jammed against the counterbore.  I would think the screw should go freely in until the cap is firmly seated against the arbor.  Is it possible this is a valid design element?  I did measure the TIR of the saw mating surface on the first arbor, and it meets the product specification.

Don't know what my approach will be with Sierra American.  For that matter, don't know what to say to McMaster.  I'm not mad at McMaster.  It's not good for McMaster to stock crap product.  Have to say, I am disappointed with Sierra American.

Anyone have some insightful feedback?  What would you do?


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## Cadillac (Apr 8, 2022)

Do you have pin gauges? I’d find a pin that fits the threaded hole and then check the runout. Checking with the screw compounds any problems. 
 What happens if you put a standard bolt in? Eliminate the counterbore does it solve the problem? Chuck the cap in the lathe and check mounting hole to OD contricity.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 8, 2022)

Open up the CBore ? Can you post a pic of this arbor also ?


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

I can post a picture in a little while.  Good experiments.  Don't have pin gauges.  Maybe I can turn a pin to fit.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 8, 2022)

What are the odds of getting two bad arbors?​
I would think the odds would not be great , kinda like the Orioles winning the World Series . But , maybe the 2 came off the same run with a set-up issue . I just can't figure out how it was machined so far out of concentricity .


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

Nothing readily fits well.  But the hole is between an H drill and an I drill.  I drill is too large by a little bit.


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## jpackard56 (Apr 8, 2022)

McMaster is usually pretty good and Sierra I've not had a problem BUT getting two in a row Yeah that isn't that uncommon anymore because of batch purchasing at our suppliers. A bad run is a bad run. I expect either of these companies will make it right for you but it is of course frustrating as you no what in the meantime.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

These arbors are probably from the same lot.  With the original arbor I tried a different screw and the head of the SHCS is eccentric with the cap counterbore.  Both arbors seem to be made the same.  Tomorrow I will turn a pin to fit the hole.  The original cap measures 0.996".


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## jpackard56 (Apr 8, 2022)

Contact both companies and explain that a lot of members are watching !


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## mmcmdl (Apr 8, 2022)

CNCs make parts quickly , both good and bad . Have to wonder how QC didn't pick up the issue .


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

jpackard56 said:


> McMaster is usually pretty good and Sierra I've not had a problem BUT getting two in a row Yeah that isn't that uncommon anymore because of batch purchasing at our suppliers. A bad run is a bad run. I expect either of these companies will make it right for you but it is of course frustrating as you no what in the meantime.


Has to be a bad run.  I will contact both places.  Sierra American should be informed of a bad lot.  I still need to do some more measurements, but one thing for certain, the screw head contacts the counterbore, in both cases.  I don't think it should.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> CNCs make parts quickly , both good and bad . Have to wonder how QC didn't pick up the issue .


This is really the fundamental issue.  QC let the product ship.  Or they were told to ship it...


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## Jim F (Apr 8, 2022)

Make your own, that way QC is on you........
I have made 3 so far, need to make another when the weather co-operates.....


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## mmcmdl (Apr 8, 2022)

Jim F said:


> Make your own, that way QC is on you........


I made a few , the runout was over .050 !    JK
I went ahead and bought the Sierras and am ahead of the game !   JK, again .


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

I made one, and had boring issues, never got it to be right.  Furthermore, managed to make a part that I couldn't figure out how to hold any more to machine it.  Was a learning experience.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

Ok, some pictures.  This is arbor #2.  Arbor #1 is still in a collet on my lathe.  As you can see, I haven't even cleaned it.




Screw will not go to bottom of counterbore because it is hitting the CB from 12 o'clock to 4 o'clock.  Tightening cap causes cap to tilt and lift.  Screw head jams against counterbore.  The shadow on seen from 5 o'clock to 12 o'clock is the eccentric counterbore.





If I can clean up the bottom and it appears flat, I could make a shouldered pin with threads and I could indicate off the smooth part of the pin.  Kind of like a shoulder bolt without a head.  Or I could try to make a tight fitting pin to register against the threads and indicate the pin.  I also can measure the TIR of the arbor cap, the screw hole and counterbore.

The issue is not how to fix this.  I could fix this arbor.  And I could fix arbor #1.  It is more of what is wrong, so I can pass that along to the manufacturer.


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## Jim F (Apr 8, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> I made one, and had boring issues, never got it to be right.  Furthermore, managed to make a part that I couldn't figure out how to hold any more to machine it.  Was a learning experience.







same principle.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

Jim F said:


> same principle.


I have seen Joe Pie's video.  Doesn't matter, still have a door stop that makes me irritated when I see it.  

These youtube guys make everything look easy, when _it is easy only when you know what you are doing.  _I am not there yet.  Getting there, but not there.

All that said, I may try again, but making an arbor _is not the subject of this thread_.  This thread is about receiving two bad arbors and determining what is wrong.  And maybe informing the distributor and manufacturer of the arbors.


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## ErichKeane (Apr 8, 2022)

Is it only the counterbore that is off-center, or is the hole for the bolt off center too?  If the former, I'd just widen the counter-bore to give the bolt clearance.  A too-large counterbore isn't going to cause a problem until it gets really big.

If the bolt hole is too large, you might get away with enbiggening it too, as long as you don't have to make it big that the bolt head goes through it (though even THAT could be fixed with a washer).


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

Jim F said:


> Make your own, that way QC is on you........
> I have made 3 so far, need to make another when the weather co-operates.....


Some time, I will do that.  My first one was a failure.  I really am not quite sure what went wrong.  All I know is I hit the cap dimensions "perfectly" and the saw just fits.  But the cap interferes when inserting part way into the arbor, and I couldn't figure out where it is hitting.  I strongly suspect a boring issue, or even a taper issue.  At the time, I was not proficient or knowledgeable enough to determine the problem.


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## mksj (Apr 8, 2022)

Actually I think the odds are quite high, when you consider that it is a production run and the distributor often will get stock from the same batch. I have seen the same issue with Dorian in the past with regard to their QCTP and holders, let alone they kept changing the design of their holders. When they put together their kits, it was whatever they had on hand.  I considered buying a Sierra America Arbor, they weren't inexpensive and I recall similar reports to high runout (TIR), and I did not want to fork out $$ for their high precision saw arbor line. I made my own and the TIR was about 0.001" and the holder cap to arbor clearance is a close fit (0.0005") that it holds the saws very true. I might suggest you call the company directly as they state they have a "limited" 5 year warranty.








						General Purpose Reach Arbor SA-3L (Set - .625-.1.000-.1.250 dia)
					

Description  Set includes one of each: SA-625, SA-1000, SA-1250 Most accurate general purpose arbor sold .001 SQUARE shank to cutter locating area “VIBRA-CORE DESIGN” allows for most cutter vibration to be absorbed through our special heat treating process Deep low profile caps g




					sierraamerican.com


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## Jim F (Apr 8, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Some time, I will do that.  My first one was a failure.  I really am not quite sure what went wrong.  All I know is I hit the cap dimensions "perfectly" and the saw just fits.  But the cap interferes when inserting part way into the arbor, and I couldn't figure out where it is hitting.  I strongly suspect a boring issue, or even a taper issue.  At the time, I was not proficient or knowledgeable enough to determine the problem.


I have only about 1 yr running my lathe and mill/drill.....


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

ErichKeane said:


> Is it only the counterbore that is off-center, or is the hole for the bolt off center too?  If the former, I'd just widen the counter-bore to give the bolt clearance.  A too-large counterbore isn't going to cause a problem until it gets really big.
> 
> If the bolt hole is too large, you might get away with enbiggening it too, as long as you don't have to make it big that the bolt head goes through it (though even THAT could be fixed with a washer).


I think the cap and the holes in it are fine, but I will indicate it tomorrow.  

Pretty sure the hole in the arbor body is not on centerline of the spindle.  That is what it looked like with arbor #1.  The hole is straight, but not on centerline of the spindle axis.  It is like it was removed from one machine or fixture and placed in another fixture, and there is an offset error.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

Jim F said:


> I have only about 1 yr running my lathe and mill/drill.....


Apparently you are very talented.  My hat is off to you


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## ErichKeane (Apr 8, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> I think the cap and the holes in it are fine, but I will indicate it tomorrow.
> 
> Pretty sure the hole in the arbor body is not on centerline of the spindle.  That is what it looked like with arbor #1.  The hole is straight, but not on centerline of the spindle axis.  It is like it was removed from one machine or fixture and placed in another fixture, and there is an offset error.


Ah, well, even this doesn't really matter as long as the cap can bolt in/be used as a clamp, the critical dimensions are:
1- the cap's inner diameter piece is a very close fit to the inner diameter of the body.2
2- the body's inner diameter's runout.

Everything else just has to be a 'clamp' for the cutters.


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## benmychree (Apr 8, 2022)

As mentioned above, the cure is to bore out the counterbore and the body fit for the shank of the screw, and get on with your job.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

ErichKeane said:


> Ah, well, even this doesn't really matter as long as the cap can bolt in/be used as a clamp, the critical dimensions are:
> 1- the cap's inner diameter piece is a very close fit to the inner diameter of the body.2
> 2- the body's inner diameter's runout.
> 
> Everything else just has to be a 'clamp' for the cutters.


As I have mentioned before, these arbors are fixable.  On my "freebie" I will fix it.  I'm inclined to fix arbor #1 by boring the hole in the arbor body true and rethreading with a larger screw.  Or I could play around with the cap and enlarge the counterbore.  Either would work, with your suggestion being easier.

But, honestly, I don't feel that I should be expected to accept this second defective arbor and have to pay for it.  (I didn't contract for a defective arbor.  I paid for a new, serviceable arbor that would hold the saw blade true.)  Neither arbor #1 nor arbor #2 should have been shipped to McMaster, or to me.  I will call Sierra American next week.  They seem to have some sort of problem that is letting these parts get shipped.  The arbors I received are not up to quality standards.  One should be able to tighten the screw all the way into the arbor without binding or interfering with the counterbore, especially if the binding can cause the saw blade to not run true.


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## ErichKeane (Apr 8, 2022)

As far as 'should you get something like this', the answer is obviously 'no'.  The fact that you got 2 is probably as others said, a bad production run, someone asleep at the CNC machine  A call to Sierra would be nice to at least alert them of their mistake, perhaps they can get the rest off the proverbial shelves.  That said, I'm immediately disappointed in their QC, and probably am going to mentally consider them about equivalent to 'chinesium' products.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

benmychree said:


> As mentioned above, the cure is to bore out the counterbore and the body fit for the shank of the screw, and get on with your job.


The arbor is fixable, both of them are.  Fixing the arbor is not the point of the thread.

I do not accept paying full retail price for defective equipment whether I can fix it or not.  It is the principal of it.  

As an example, would you accept delivery of a car that you paid MSRP without the rear axle and wheels?  You paid for a full vehicle and expect full function for that price, wouldn't you?


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## mmcmdl (Apr 8, 2022)

What size saw is that for ?


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

ErichKeane said:


> As far as 'should you get something like this', the answer is obviously 'no'.  The fact that you got 2 is probably as others said, a bad production run, someone asleep at the CNC machine  A call to Sierra would be nice to at least alert them of their mistake, perhaps they can get the rest off the proverbial shelves.  That said, I'm immediately disappointed in their QC, and probably am going to mentally consider them about equivalent to 'chinesium' products.


I will call them.  It is no doubt a bad run, compounded by poor quality control, and who knows what.  Yes, I am disappointed with their QC.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> What size saw is that for ?


1".


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## benmychree (Apr 8, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> The arbor is fixable, both of them are.  Fixing the arbor is not the point of the thread.
> 
> I do not accept paying full retail price for defective equipment whether I can fix it or not.  It is the principal of it.
> 
> As an example, would you accept delivery of a car that you paid MSRP without the rear axle and wheels?  You paid for a full vehicle and expect full function for that price, wouldn't you?


Apples and oranges.  I don't think you have really determined the true cause of the problem, whether it is the arbor or the fastener; if I wanted to get on with my job instead of p-ssing and moaning about it, I'd find the cause, remedy it, and get on with it.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 8, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> 1".


Didn't  I sell you a 1" saw arbor or was it someone else ? I can't keep track .


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

benmychree said:


> Apples and oranges.  I don't think you have really determined the true cause of the problem, whether it is the arbor or the fastener; if I wanted to get on with my job instead of p-ssing and moaning about it, I'd find the cause, remedy it, and get on with it.


I am trying to find out the cause.  I don't know how to measure these kind of things.  It is not my area of expertise at all.  It's why I posted.

So, how would you determine what was wrong?

The fastener does not seem to be the problem.  I replaced it and the problem remains.  The head of the fastener is not centered with respect to the outside body of the arbor, nor is it centered with respect to the counterbore.  The offset is 0.022" on this arbor.  I realize using a screw is hardly precision, but I don't have pin gauges.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 8, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> Didn't  I sell you a 1" saw arbor or was it someone else ? I can't keep track .


Not me.


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## mmcmdl (Apr 8, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> Not me.


I should've !   Somebody got it not too long ago .


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## mmcmdl (Apr 8, 2022)

So the bolt hole and the CBore don't mean squat . Open them up .020 and you're good to go . Without the bolt , make sure the saw sits flush on the holder as well as the cap . If not , could be a radius in the corner on either of the 2 . If there is , just undercut it , no big issue .


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## Firstram (Apr 9, 2022)

WobblyHand said:


> I do not accept paying full retail price for defective equipment whether I can fix it or not.


Technically, they were half price!


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## WobblyHand (Apr 9, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> So the bolt hole and the CBore don't mean squat . Open them up .020 and you're good to go . Without the bolt , make sure the saw sits flush on the holder as well as the cap . If not , could be a radius in the corner on either of the 2 . If there is , just undercut it , no big issue .


Practically speaking, you and others are correct.  I can fix both arbors.  Many members here have provided useful suggestions for a fix.  It's quite apparent that there is a can-do attitude on this forum.  I like that.  The arbors will be fixed, one way or another, pending contacting Sierra American. 

From a consumer perspective, I overpaid for a factory second.  I was expecting a factory first.  In retrospect, I guess, I got these arbors for 1/2 price.  One could argue that I was made whole.  

Someone ought to inform Sierra American they have a problem.  Their product was sold as new and fully functional.  And it isn't fully functional without alteration.  Therefore their product value proposition is less.  In any case, I will inform Sierra American they have shipped two defective parts, and they may have some sort of quality problem.  If I don't report it, who will?


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## WobblyHand (Apr 9, 2022)

Firstram said:


> Technically, they were half price!


Quite true at this point.  Which is why I will not seek direct satisfaction from McMaster.  I hope they claw back the cost from Sierra American.  McMaster has been more than fair to me.

Still, I will contact Sierra American, just to let them know of the quality issue.  I don't want money or even parts from them.  I want them to know they are shipping subpar material.  It's up to them to decide what to do next.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 9, 2022)

Say I fit a pin within 0.001" of the threaded hole diameter.  The hole appears to be about 1" deep.  Let the pin be 2" long.  Then the error (assuming an errorless constant diameter pin) would be less than or equal to 0.002"?  I don't know if I can make a pin that is roughly 0.269" diameter that is 2" long with constant diameter on my lathe.  The length to diameter ratio is pretty high.  

What if I made a shoulder screw like this?  The flat part would register against the bottom, like a backplate does to a threaded spindle.  What would the error be relative to the bottom of the arbor?  5/16-18 thread, 1/8" long 0.25" OD gutter, 5/8" OD, 2" long.  Pretty sure I could make a good clean version of this.  The bottom of the interior of the arbor is turned.  I used a dial indicator (not a DTI) against the bottom face and measure about 0.0006" TIR.  With only a 1" bore, it is hard to get a DTI in there and position the pointer to minimize cosine error.


I'm scratching my head how to measure this without altering the arbor.  If I use a boring bar to face the bottom of the hole, then I know it is flat, but I have "altered the evidence" so to speak.  Assuming a 0.0006" bottom runout, and I make a near perfect screw, the screw is bottomed against the arbor, the baseline TIR at 2" would be 0.002", assuming the screw hole is on center.  To minimize the error, it would be better to measure near the bottom shoulder.  I need some of the length just to be able to screw it into the hole.  I could machine a hex head on the end for a socket, or make a slot for a screwdriver and make it shorter.

Unless someone has a better idea, I will try this.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 10, 2022)

Made the piece on my lathe, in a collet.  Single pointed the threads.  Turned the shoulder.  Later turned down the diameter to ensure it was round.  Measured the TIR of the rod and the shoulder and it was 0.0001".  Then set up the dividing head for hexes.  Due to a brain fart, I cut two hexes, but fortunately, the wrong hex doesn't interfere with the measurement.


I screwed in the shoulder bolt until it bottomed against the shoulder.  I put marker on the shoulder to test for contact.
Everything was chucked up in the mini-lathe and I measured the TIR of the smooth cylindrical surface.  Then I pushed the DTI towards the chuck 0.500", checked for interference, and remeasured the TIR.  I did this for both arbors.


I will add in the TIR numbers in a little while.  They are in my phone, but my phone is not nearby.  Think they confirm that the hole is off center, but close to parallel to the center, for both arbors.

Edit:  Here are the measured TIRs
#1.  0.0205 at edge (like picture above), 0.022"    in 0.500" towards chuck
#2.  0.0144 at edge,                                0.01375" in 0.500" towards chuck

Also measured the SHCS heads.  5/16"-18 screws have a 15/32" head according to McMaster.  I measured some of my screws that I bought from McMaster and they had heads that were 0.002" under 15/32".   These screws will not fit these arbors.  If the holes were on center, they would just fit.  For the two screws supplied by Sierra American, the head diameters were 0.007" under 15/32", just barely fitting, and in both cases hitting the counterbore by a thousandth or two.

Both of the arbor screw holes were packed with swarf.  Removed quite a bit of crap from the holes.  Clearly they didn't bother to clean post tapping.


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## extropic (Apr 10, 2022)

@WobblyHand 

I think it's foolish not to refer the problem back to your supplier (McMaster).
Why? Because informing them of the second defective unit should elevate the problem and facilitate getting it fixed.
By not reporting it to McMaster, they only know of one bad part (from you) and they may dismiss the issue as random.
If McM becomes aware of repeated failures they should purge their stock and resolve it with their supplier.
McM is a top notch performer, with top notch systems in place to handle problems. However, they are not clairvoyant. You need to report the problem.  
Once you modify the item, you own it. If you're short of projects, I can probable find some defective crap to sell you.  

Similar story: I bought, from McMaster, an arbor for abrasive drums (3" IIRC). It was labeled "Made in USA" and it had unacceptable runout (.08" IIRC). I reported it and they refunded my cost. I didn't want to bother with another POS. I virtually begged them to give me a return label because I wanted some responsible person to see what junk they were passing on. McM didn't want it back. I presume they handled the problem without actually seeing my defective piece. They must have, otherwise they would be going the way of Sears, instead of growing stronger.


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## jwmay (Apr 10, 2022)

This thread has been going for awhile. But just to say my piece. I think you shouldn't have bothered doing anything except sending it back. Time is money, and you've spent plenty of it doing QC work for someone, that they can't and won't use. If it's me, I fix it and carry on...or I send it back. No interest in figuring out how they failed. I've got plenty of my own failures to think on. Lol


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## sdelivery (Apr 10, 2022)

Check every fifth part


mmcmdl said:


> CNCs make parts quickly , both good and bad . Have to wonder how QC didn't pick up the issue .


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## sdelivery (Apr 10, 2022)

extropic said:


> @WobblyHand
> 
> I think it's foolish not to refer the problem back to your supplier (McMaster).
> Why? Because informing them of the second defective unit should elevate the problem and facilitate getting it fixed.
> ...


Oh boy oh boy can I buy some of your defective crap?
I ll trade you some of my broken shirt


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## sdelivery (Apr 10, 2022)

All kidding aside definitely start with McMaster they have the weight to bring on change. I am sure they don't want to go through the same situation with a thousand other buyers. 
I would also e mail the manufacturer and yes do mention that everyone on the forum is watching.
I am not looking for a freebie I am trying to help American Manufactures succeed.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 10, 2022)

sdelivery said:


> All kidding aside definitely start with McMaster they have the weight to bring on change. I am sure they don't want to go through the same situation with a thousand other buyers.
> I would also e mail the manufacturer and yes do mention that everyone on the forum is watching.
> I am not looking for a freebie I am trying to help American Manufactures succeed.


I agree with you.  I will contact McMaster.  They should know they are having a problem with the quality of one of their suppliers.
And yes, I plan to contact Sierra American.  I don't want or need a freebie.  I would like SA to continue prosper, by offering quality product.  I want American manufacturers to succeed.

I tried an experiment.  I cut two (different) 5/16"-18 screws to length and turned the heads down by 0.050" in diameter.  The heads no longer interfere with the counterbore.  There is enough wiggle room in the main hole of the cap.  So I do not have to alter the arbors.  The arbor caps seat square with the precision face.  So I have essentially fixed the problem and have 2 functional arbors, at the expense of some non-standard screws.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 10, 2022)

jwmay said:


> This thread has been going for awhile. But just to say my piece. I think you shouldn't have bothered doing anything except sending it back. Time is money, and you've spent plenty of it doing QC work for someone, that they can't and won't use. If it's me, I fix it and carry on...or I send it back. No interest in figuring out how they failed. I've got plenty of my own failures to think on. Lol


I received the second arbor two days ago at the close of business.  In other words, the start of the weekend.  McMaster didn't want the first arbor to be returned.  It's likely that they wouldn't want the second one either.  I just don't need three of them!

I wanted to know what the issue was, so I could fix one of them.  It's unlikely that Sierra American really cares, but I will tell them that they are not delivering quality product, and I am disappointed with the experience.  I think they are deliberately using undersized screws because their drilling fixture has an offset and they're playing and losing at the tolerance game.

I will tell McMaster that their vendor has shipped them poor quality product.  They can put the pressure on SA a lot more effectively than I can.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 10, 2022)

extropic said:


> @WobblyHand
> 
> I think it's foolish not to refer the problem back to your supplier (McMaster).
> Why? Because informing them of the second defective unit should elevate the problem and facilitate getting it fixed.
> ...


Plan to contact both McMaster and Sierra American.

No thanks on sending me defective crap, seem to be able to attract it all by myself!

McMaster probably would be overwhelmed with defective stuff coming back and would have to deal with the expense of disposal.  It's far cheaper to let the buyer disposition the defective product.  I wouldn't be surprised if McMaster claws back some, if not all the cost from their suppliers.  This is common in the automotive industry.  Don't meet your quality standards, then the supplier eats the cost.  The supplier is economically motivated to improve.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 11, 2022)

Sent emails to both McMaster and Sierra American this afternoon.  Told them what I received, and I was disappointed in the quality of the products I received.  I said I do not want money or material or replacements from them, but I did want the quality of the arbor product to improve.

So far, I have only heard back from McMaster.  McMaster is a class act.  They claimed to have found no other customer returns on my item, but will forward my feedback to Sierra American.  They said, if I ever changed my mind on the arbors, that they would issue me a credit for the replacement.  They hoped that I would continue to have confidence in purchasing from them, as "we do strive to provide quality products to our customers".

Don't know if I will hear from SA or not.  If they do respond, I would be interested in their response.


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## WobblyHand (Apr 13, 2022)

I did hear back from Sierra American.  The email was cordial but didn't confirm or deny an issue.  I didn't really expect that I'd get an email admitting fault, but, it was good to at least hear a response.  They claimed they only have an average return rate of one of these arbors a year out of some number like 10K+ per year.  I must of been that lucky guy.  They did apologize that their product did not meet my expectations.  Glad to have gotten this off my chest, consider the case closed.  Not going to go out of my way to patronize them, but still don't wish them ill will.

Sometime, I will try to fix my poor arbor I tried to make over a year ago.  From seeing the SA-1000 I have a better idea how to fix it.


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