# Delta Shaper Help With Inspection And Price



## toolman_ar (Nov 3, 2016)

I have found a little shaper for sale.

The Tag states Delta, and I think this is the Ammco 7" shaper.

For thoes who have one of these machines, what should I look at regarding condition?

Currently the machine is in parts... not sure why. The original vice is supposed to be present.

But I don't know what else to look for.

I know that having one of these little shapers is a must have item... but how much should I expect to spend?

I have purchased items in the past that were not running. I don't like doing that, but sometimes there is no choice. 

Please let me know what you say...

toolman_ar


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## chips&more (Nov 3, 2016)

I would suggest you contact the “Ulma Doctor” that resides in this forum. He is the all wise one on that little shaper…Dave


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## Bob Korves (Nov 3, 2016)

Talvare has one as well.  Nice machines.  Must have?  Man, you must be drinking the Kool Aid.  They are fun little machines, and can be damned useful, but are by no means a requirement in a shop, except perhaps for the coolness factor, which is reason enough for a hobby machinist.  Commercial machine shops almost never have a shaper any more.  They say "You can make most anything with a shaper, except money..."


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## toolman_ar (Nov 3, 2016)

Bob,

I have been looking for one for some time. The only ones I found local were big machines.

This one is small. My space is all but filled up. I think I have a spot for it.

And yes pear pressure is always a worry...

I don't want to be the only adult kid without one...

toolman_ar


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## talvare (Nov 3, 2016)

Toolman,
One of the most common problems with these little Ammco shapers is a damaged bull gear. The bull gear is made of Bakelite phenolic and have been known to loose some teeth if the machine was abused, so I would check that carefully. These machines have a lot of little linkages, rods, cams, knobs, etc., and since the machine you're looking at isn't operational, I would suggest getting on the internet and looking at photos and also manuals to insure that all of the parts are there. I think there is a manual posted on this site. Like with any piece of machinery with ways, that is where the machine's accuracy and precision is maintained, so check the ways for the ram as well as the cross-feed and vertical ways on the table. Here's a brochure that may help: http://www.lathe.com/catalogs/Ammco7ShaperColor.pdf
Also, check out this thread:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/aamco-shaper.51588/
Hope this helps a little.
Ted


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## toolman_ar (Nov 4, 2016)

Ted,

Thank you for the inspection items.

I will look over the catalogs to try and find all the parts.

The asking price is $500.00, and that is to rich for my budget. My hope is to negotiate for a little less than half of the asking price. Depending on what extras are available.

toolman_ar


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## toolman_ar (Nov 5, 2016)

I have a new toy!!

More to come...

toolman _ar


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## Groundhog (Nov 5, 2016)

New toys are good! Congrats.

Keep us posted with pictures and comments of the assembly/restoration progress.


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## ndnchf (Nov 5, 2016)

I have one of these little shapers, they are really sweet. As mentioned, the phenolic bull gear is the first thing to check. Be sure all the parts are there, they will be hard to source if missing. Here is mine. If you need close ups of any parts, let me know. Good luck in getting it.


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## toolman_ar (Nov 6, 2016)

I traveled over and met with the seller on Saturday. We struck a deal and loaded my little red truck.

There are a few parts missing, but the seller said come back and we can dig around to see if we can find them.

A few pictures:


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## toolman_ar (Nov 6, 2016)

I need to find a brake down drawing that shows the motor mount.

Missing parts are the shield that mounts to the back of the colum.
Counter shaft
Counter shaft gaurd
Motor Mount
Motor Mount adjustment plate
???

I think...

toolman_ar


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## toolman_ar (Nov 6, 2016)

Based on the serial number, 99-9156, this machine was built in 1951, in Milwaukee, WI.


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## ndnchf (Nov 6, 2016)

Congratulations. I think have pdf files of the instruction and parts manuals on my computer at work. I'll check tomorrow. You can probably find them on the Vintage Machinery site too.


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## ndnchf (Nov 6, 2016)

Here are a couple photos that may help.


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## toolman_ar (Nov 6, 2016)

Ndnchf,

Thank you!! Looks like the countershaft is made into the motor mount.

I will ask the seller if he can find it...

Other wise I might have to cobble something.

toolman_ar


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## CluelessNewB (Nov 6, 2016)

PDF's can be found here:

Instructions and Parts: (39MB color)
http://www.lathe.com/catalogs/DeltaMilw7ShaperInstrColor.pdf

and 

Sales Flyer: (14 MB color) 
http://www.lathe.com/catalogs/DeltaMilw7ShaperColor.pdf

Smaller Black & White versions  as well as Ammco versions can be found also:
http://www.lathe.com/catalogs/

BTW this is from the Logan Lathe site, not really sure why they are there but thank you Scott Logan!


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## toolman_ar (Nov 6, 2016)

CNB,

Thank you!!!

That first link has the break-down.

That is exactly what I needed.

toolman_ar


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## FOMOGO (Nov 6, 2016)

toolman_ar said:


> Based on the serial number, 99-9156, this machine was built in 1951, in Milwaukee, WI.



  Interesting, so was I. Well I guess you could say construction was actually started in 1950.  Nice little machine you got there. Cheers, Mike


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## toolman_ar (Nov 6, 2016)

Thanks Mike.

I have been looking for one for a while. 

Was kind of surprised when I first saw it... it is tiny.  But it will be a good learning experience.

toolman_ar


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## Ulma Doctor (Nov 7, 2016)

nice find toolman_ar!
she doesn't look like she is missing too much stuff
looks like a 1/4 or 1/3 hp motor and some mounting is all that is necessary to run the lil beast
keep us posted!


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## ndnchf (Nov 7, 2016)

Toolman_ar - I have some good info on the AMMCO shaper including some notes on disassembly, manuals and use etc.  Give me your email and I'll send them to you.


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## toolman_ar (Nov 7, 2016)

Ndnchf,

PM sent...

toolman_ar


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## toolman_ar (Nov 7, 2016)

Ndnchf,
I got your email, thank you!!

I also met with the seller again today. He found the countershaft/motor mount. It has been repaired where the base meets the vertical portion of the motor mount.

But it is better than no mount... Now I need to find something to bolt this on top of...

toolman_ar


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## ndnchf (Nov 7, 2016)

Was the repair done well?  Hopefully it will clean up and be usable. Or can be properly repaired if necessary.


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## toolman_ar (Nov 7, 2016)

My plan is to wire brush it and give it the old hammer test. 

If it pops apart, I will reweld it.

Now I need to find the proper grey/blue paint.

toolman_ar


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## scoopydo (Nov 19, 2016)

toolman_ar,

I picked up one of these shapers yesterday. The serial number is SH1-233312 it is an Ammco not Delta branded, I just wondered where you got the dating info from? I'd like to know the vintage of mine. With the number of digits in the serial I'm guessing it's late model?

Thanks George


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## toolman_ar (Nov 19, 2016)

George,
I found a serial number list for Rockwell Delta.

Congrats on your find!!

toolman_ar


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## scoopydo (Nov 19, 2016)

Thanks toolman_ar! I'll see if I can find that list.


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## toolman_ar (Nov 19, 2016)

Found this on Ventagemachinery:

The serial number is SH943620 which, best I can figure, places it around Aug-Sept 1944. It has its original vise, the War Production Board tag, Delta work light, and the rotary switch. I even think the belts are original (still functional) but will be changed at a later date. The 1/3hp Sunlight Electric motor also appears to be original to the machine. Since it didn’t have a stand, I made one for it that’s a close approximation of the original. It was made from scrap construction lumber (top and framing), pine recovered from a dumpster (doors and drawer), and some left over walnut from a chair project. I have to say I’m as happy as can be with it – it’s a great addition to the shop and I can’t wait for the first project (a part for an Atlas mill that’s next in the que).


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## toolman_ar (Nov 19, 2016)

George,

I did a search and found the info on ventage machinery.com

http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/DeltaSerialNumbers.ashx

But I don't see a reference for the Ammco tools.

toolman.ar


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## scoopydo (Nov 19, 2016)

Ya I searched their site and only found a couple of publications.None of which haven't been posted here in better quality. I'm pretty sure the serial numbers differ from Ammco to Delta, so I'll keep trying to find something.

Thanks again


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## scoopydo (Nov 19, 2016)

toolman.ar,

Sorry about the broken post! I think I may also build a copy of the cabinet. It's cool looking if nothing else.
Mine has the original light but no accessories except the vise. Also no war tag either.
The serial number looks to be SH1 233312 but maybe the one is a well formed scratch? All the serial numbers I've seen have only 6 digits so maybe it's older than yours?
It doesn't matter, I can't wait to start using it. The PO did a complete rebuild including a new bull gear, I just wish I knew where he bought it!

George


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## toolman_ar (Nov 20, 2016)

Please add pictures of your machine.

Or start a new post and tell the story. I think it is fun to find and learn about these and other types of machines.

toolman.ar


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## scoopydo (Nov 20, 2016)

I'll try and find time to get some pics. I haven't even unloaded it off the trailer yet, it's pouring down rain right now. With it well tarped and the trailer under cover I think it will have to wait a bit. After the holiday I will be free for about three weeks so should be time.

I found a set of two books that I had picked up a couple of years ago; "Machine Tool Operation Part II" is about drilling, planing, milling and grinding. There is a huge chapter on shapers the operation, tool grinding and many things I've never seen covered any where else. The set I have is the second edition 1937 printing date. I bought these off ebay several years ago it's "Machine Tool Operation" by Henry D. Burghardt if you can find them they're a great resourse for all the machine tools in the shop.

If it's legal I could try and scan the chapter?

George


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## toolman_ar (Nov 20, 2016)

George,

Thank you for the reference material. I will get a copy.

I am not sure regarding the copy.

But sounds like a good source for info I will need.

We need rain in the worst kind of way. The weather man says we should have some on Wednesday. 

toolman.ar


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## scoopydo (Nov 20, 2016)

toolman.ar

I'll bet, you guys have been on fire this year! I live on the high desert in Oregon and we really had a mild summer I don't think it got over 95 or so. But we've already had some snow although it didn't last long.

If you can find this set of books they really are a good reference. I've learned something new every time I open one of them.

George


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## toolman_ar (Nov 20, 2016)

Usually all I have to do to get it to rain, is load a machine tool into my truck.

Almost everything I have got rained on while traveling home....

toolman.ar


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## scoopydo (Nov 20, 2016)

Believe me I know how that is. This trip I got into snow going over the mountain near Crater Lake and the wind was blowing like mad but only a few drops of rain in Rogue Valley.

George


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## wa5cab (Nov 21, 2016)

Regarding the legality of scanning part of the book that you have, it depends upon when the last edition was printed.  For example, the Atlas MOLO, first printed in 1937, is still officially "in print" at the 33rd Edition.  If you do decide to scan part of yours, PLEASE do not scan it in color unless it actually has color photographs.


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## scoopydo (Nov 21, 2016)

wa5cab;

Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to dig around and see if it was printed later than 1937. No color in this book it's also only about 3 x 5 inches in size.

George


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## scoopydo (Nov 21, 2016)

I just checked Amazon and they are still in print. I did find a set like mine 1937 for $39.95!

George


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## GK1918 (Nov 21, 2016)

How about Ford 8N tractor paint thats got some blue in it


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## wa5cab (Nov 21, 2016)

OK on the books still being sold.  $39.95 sounds like a pretty good price for a multi-volume set.  Average selling price for the single-volume Atlas MOLO is somewhere between $25 and $35.


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## scoopydo (Nov 21, 2016)

I don't remember what I paid for my set but I'm sure it wasn't any cheeper than $39.95.


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## toolman_ar (Nov 24, 2016)

I will ask Santa to get me the set for Christmas.

toolman_ar


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## toolman_ar (Nov 30, 2016)

GK1918,

Thanks for the paint tip!

I have been cleaning up some other projects and have not started on the shaper.

But, intend to get this running before the end of the year!


toolman.ar


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## scoopydo (Dec 3, 2016)

Thank you Toolman! Sorry for not getting back sooner. I'll take a look at it tonight.

I was just on Yahoo Shapers group and in the files section I found a pdf file of the chapters on shapers from Machine Tool Operation Vol 2. It's an earlier one than I have but looks to be pretty much the same.

George


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