# Kitchen remodel, appliances?



## Aukai (Nov 19, 2021)

I'm going to be doing a kitchen remodel(contracted), I'm looking at Wolf, and Sub-Zero, any comments? I know they are pricy, but the HD stuff don't last worth beans. Maybe Kitchen-Aid?


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## mmcmdl (Nov 19, 2021)

We went with Kitchen Aid Mike and still had issues . More electrical BS . Boards and cards etc . The stainless is nice and will make nice fire pits when they do stop working in the future .


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## larry4406 (Nov 19, 2021)

I am knee deep in a kitchen remodel/extension.  We went Wolf, Subzero, Asco.  We liked the features.  I also I work for a major builder in my area I was able to get a substantial discount, much better than the Thermador/Kitchenaide route we were originally going.


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## Jackle1312 (Nov 19, 2021)

Everyone i know that has subzero has had lots of issues. On the other hand anything with electronics is failure prone. It seems like they are all designed to fail and its like playing the lottery to see if you get a good one. I have Frigidaire in the kitchen and LG in the laundry and have only had minor issues with the LG washer and dryer. I will keep fixing them as long as parts are available and may get another 10 years or more out of them.


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## jwmelvin (Nov 19, 2021)

Our LG fridge was pretty awful and broke several times. I gave it to a friend, who repaired it a few times before giving up. The SubZero replacement has been good so far but only a few years in. 

I like the Bosch dishwasher, though Miele are a little quieter; though that depends on the exact model. 

Cooking appliances probably depends which power source. I’m a fan of induction cook tops but I really want a Rational commercial steam oven. Not exactly the conventional look.


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## jcp (Nov 19, 2021)

We went with Bosch dishwasher and induction cooktop, JennAir oven, Samsung refrigerator. So far (10 years) only had trouble with the cooktop. Warranty installed a new board and all has been good since.


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## projectnut (Nov 19, 2021)

Wolf and Sub Zero  appliances are made just a couple miles down the road from our house.  They are top of the line quality, quite popular, expensive, and believe it or not hard to get.  Several relatives have had them, and by in large they seem to outlast their owners.  Most were in the 40+ year old range when they were replaced.  Even then they were replaced because of style rather than functionality.   We did a remodel 4 years ago and tried to get a Sub Zero refrigerator and a Wolf range.  The company showroom was just being built and it would have been a 3 month wait just to see them..   We tried several local appliance stores, but they didn't have the models in stock we were looking for.

In the long run we went with GE.  Even that was a bit of a mistake.  The range I chose was a convection style.  It was fast as far as the top heating elements were concerned, however it did have some drawbacks.  First off you needed ferrous metal cookware.  It wouldn't work with ceramic, aluminum. or any other non- conductive metals.  Secondly it had a screeching sound anytime any of the larger heating elements were  on.  The third problem was that it took almost half an hour for the oven to come up to temperature.

We continually had "unpleasant discussions" over the range.  My wife hated it, but I could live with it.  After 2 years of intense discussions I relented and we purchased a standard style GE electric range.  We were considering a Wolf gas range, but we don't currently have gas in the kitchen.  It would have required running a pipe the length of the house and boring through the new ceramic tile floor to install it.  Since the new range has been installed everyone's happy.


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## Forty Niner (Nov 19, 2021)

Good luck picking your appliances!  We are also refurbishing a home we just bought.  I have been surprised by the lack of available appliances.  We would pick an appliance (dishwasher, range, etc) and try to order it, only to find that our choice was unavailable or extremly long delivery times (like 10 months).   Bosch dishwashers, for example were unavailable from any source we tried.  We compromised on every appliance and hope it all turns out OK. 
We have chosen to have custom cabinets built by a local company because delivery times for manufactured cabinets are estimated to be 4 months.


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## pdentrem (Nov 19, 2021)

All are bad. No matter who I ask, they all have had issues and worst once the warranty is over. It is almost worth the time to go to recycle reuse place and find old analog stove and use it. Crazy
Pierre


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## NC Rick (Nov 19, 2021)

We have had a Thermador “dual fuel“ range on order since June.  It is just in but waiting on a conversion part.  It is replacing the same brand we initially installed in 1993 which is suffering some electronics glitches at the moment.


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## C-Bag (Nov 19, 2021)

Appliances are now such a cluster. I was pretty much ignorant of the whole thing until my MIL had me get her SIL’s old O’Keefe & Merritt stove. Thing weighed as much as one of my bench machine tools! Simple to use and built to last forever. When my MIL passed my BIL took it and it turned out a nicer fancy version of the ‘51 model came up on CL. Perfect shape, one owner. Happy camper, and I love the retro look of the stove. No electronics, 4 big burners, griddle in the middle Grill’avator all chrome and white porcelain. It will easily outlast me.

 Everything else is Maytag. The 12yrld side by side fridge started acting up and everybody online said thats how long they last  Got a great repairman out(now there’s a rarity!) and he replaced a $65 relay and knock on wood it’s good as new. I’ve always hated stainless and when we thought we might have to buy another it turned out it’s extra for white! WTH? The old adage “they don’t make ‘em like they used to“ goes triple for appliances.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 19, 2021)

__





						Coleman Propane Camping Stove - Ace Hardware
					

Cook breakfast, lunch and dinner on a dependable stove that packs up easily with the Coleman classic propane stove. Just light it up and dial in your heat with the two independently adjustable burners and you can be cooking over 20,000 BTUs of power in no time. The cooking surface offers plenty...




					www.acehardware.com
				




My favorite other than the fire pit . I could get by with either if I had my way .


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## C-Bag (Nov 19, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol, mine is white gas. I do all the cooking so there’s no struggle about appliances.


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## Reddinr (Nov 19, 2021)

This is a tough one.  By the time we know if an appliance is reliable the manufacturer has "improved" their line so those original ones are not what is available anymore.  That being said, our appliances are now about 14 years old and here's the experience we have had:

Built-in oven:   GE, Electric.  The plastic touch panel button overlay started peeling after 3-4 years, which was beyond warranty.  We contacted GE and they sent us a new panel, a glass button panel this time, and it has worked fine since.  They provided it for free because it was a known issue and I installed it myself. 

Range:  Kenmore, Electric Glass top insert.   Has always worked well.  No issues.

Fridge:  Kenmore, Side by side fridge over drawer-type freezer.  Has always worked well and like the fridge over freezer setup.  No issues.

Dishwasher:  Bosch.  Has always worked well.  No issues.

Washer/dryer:  Samsung.  Have worked well.  I replaced the heating element and drum belt in the dryer a couple of years ago.  They play annoying tunes when the load is done.


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## Nogoingback (Nov 19, 2021)

We have a great appliance repair guy that we've used over the years.  When our old fridge died last summer I asked
him which brands were reliable.  He said on the low end Whirlpool was the best and at the high end Fisher and Paykel.
We bought the Whirlpool and so far it's been fine.  As with cars, I always buy the simplest, least electronics intensive
model I can.  When that stuff fails it costs big bucks.  A few years ago my brother-in-law bought a high end LG fridge
with all the options.  14 months later the main mother board failed and replacement was something like 800 bucks and
of course, it was out of warranty.  

The number one repair problem with fridges are the ice makers.

We have a Dacor gas cooktop: other than the ignitors it has no electronics at all.  No problems in seven years.


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## alloy (Nov 19, 2021)

Boy interesting this thread came up now. My wife last night said I want a new stove. One without burners to clean. (If everyone remembers awhile back I fell and hurt my hand, and to keep her mind off me being in the shop alone I know there would be a cost involved to distract her, and this apparently is the cost for that)

We have LG washers and dryer and they have been a rock, same for my TV.  I'm old school and gone are the days of buying an American made product, so since LG has been good to us probably go with them.   But, that's my idea.  My significant other "might"  (a good bet) will want a more expensive one.  I'm looking at https://www.homedepot.com/p/LG-Elec...oof-Black-Stainless-Steel-LREL6325D/312775947.  Hmmm..........just read feedback on it, poor quality, cooktop turns white, enamel inside oven cracks.  Dang, I can see my bank account balance getting much smaller than I had planned as I type this.

Wow, they even have stoves with wifi.  So do they tell you when your burning the roast, or text you when it's time to eat?  I think the more complicated the more that can go wrong.  Our dishwasher went out, and it was a board problem. The board cost about 25% of the price of a new unit, so we decided it was time for new.  I also replaced my water heater, and they also have ones with wifi.  I've lived 64 years without having my water heater talk to me,  not willing to have it reach out and touch me now.


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## Nogoingback (Nov 19, 2021)

alloy said:


> I've lived 64 years without having my water heater talk to me,  not willing to have it reach out and touch me now.


Come on, you know you'd like it if it had a sexy Chinese voice that whispered sweet nothings into your ear...


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## alloy (Nov 19, 2021)

Nogoingback said:


> Come on, you know you'd like it if it had a sexy Chinese voice that whispered sweet nothings into your ear...


Well, if I had my choice I'd have the stove with wifi.  Having it whisper "I made you orange chicken sweetheart in a sweet sexy Chinese voice" would be acceptable, or the fridge telling me don't forget that chocolate cookie dough ice cream you bought 

But, knowing my wife she would change the voice to something male that told me rude things instead.


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## Winegrower (Nov 19, 2021)

I looked at all the high end brands and chose a Bertazzoni gas range/oven for appearance and simplicity.   Great Italian style with no circuit boards or fancy unneeded features.  It’s been a few years, no issues.   Just works.

My new Kitchenaid stainless fridge needed a $600 icemaker repair shortly after the warranty was up.

I have an old, came with the house, Kenmore dishwasher…the thing just works and cleans better than any newer unit I’ve had.


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## mmcmdl (Nov 19, 2021)

My original dishwasher is still going strong , in fact , after 35 years , I converted her it into a snow thrower !


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## RJSakowski (Nov 19, 2021)

We bought a full suite of Frigidaire Gallery kitchen appliances in 2003, including electric range, microwave/exhaust, dishwasher, and refrigerator.  Over the past eighteen years, I have had to replace one relay and a recalled circuit board in the range.  We replaced our old freezer around ten years ago with a Frigidaire Commercial freezer and have had no problems with it.  On the other hand, the Frigidaire Gallery front load washer failed after eight years due to corrosion eating through the drum spider (documented in another thread in this forum.  

One consideration when outfitting a kitchen is to make sure as much as possible that you have standard dimensions for any built-ins.  Inevitably. one will fail and need to be replaced.  Another realization is that for a kitchen full of matche4d appliances, when one fails, you will be replacing them all.  When we remodeled our kitchen my wide went so far as to order pulls for the cabinets from Frigidaire to match the pulls on the appliances.  I dread the day when one of them fails.  I figure if they make it another twenty years, it won't be my problem.


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## Aukai (Nov 19, 2021)

Thank you everyone for the responses so far, very interesting. The original dish washer was pulled out, and dumped for more storage space. It still had the owners manual in the top rack from 1989.


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## RJSakowski (Nov 19, 2021)

Aukai said:


> Thank you everyone for the responses so far, very interesting. The original dish washer was pulled out, and dumped for more storage space. It still had the owners manual in the top rack from 1989.



My first year in college, I pulled duty on a commercial dishwasher.  After seeing the miserable job it did, I have never trusted them.  To this day, I have never run our dishwasher.  To my mind, just splashing some soapy water on dirty dishes is no way to get them clean.  .My wife uses it on a an almost daily basis though. But I rinse any food particles off crockery or cutlery before I put them in.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 19, 2021)

Everything is computerized these days. We moved into our current home in early 2012 and bought a new stove and refrigerator at that time. We went with GE because at least some of their production was still being done in the USA.

Both have worked well until earlier this year (so 9 years give or take). Earlier this year the ice maker and water dispenser quit working. I haven't had the time to track this down, could be simple or not. Otherwise the refrigerator is still going strong. Then back in September the stove just quit working. It is gas but when you turn the knobs an error message flashes (freaking electronic controls, I get it for the oven but stove top burners????). Again just haven't had the time to get a repair person to come in and have a look at it. 

Since Covid started I have been at war with rodents. Never so much as a mouse turd in the house before but once the local businesses (restaurants) a couple blocks away shut down, we got invaded by rats and mice. I'm worried they may have got into the wiring so may not be the fault of the appliances. 

Up until this year I would have said we were pretty happy with GE. These were not cheap, they were at the higher end of the line, large refrigerator and the stove has high BTU burners and a double oven, pretty sure we paid somewhere around $4000 for the pair in 2012. 

I really wanted to get a Wolf stove as I have used them before but my wife wanted a double oven and that put the Wolf options out of the budget.


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## mksj (Nov 19, 2021)

Most of the high end brands I feel are over priced for what you get and these days it is more what you can get as to what you want. My brother purchased a Wolf oven/range and it just got delivered after 3 months. He does a lot of cooking/baking and so far he is happy with the Wolf. We purchased our house 3 years ago, they had all viking appliances, they have all broken/needed repairs since we moved in. In general Viking is just lipstick on other brands. Oven/Range I would look at Bluestar appliances, they have been around for decades and have high BTU and a good burner design. They are not a sealed burner design, I feel they are easier to clean. If my viking range goes out I am switching to the Bluestar.








						Professional Style Ranges | BlueStar Cooking
					

A professional style gas range from BlueStar ranges provides pro-style performance and nearly unlimited customization options in a gas oven range. Discover your perfect gas range today.




					www.bluestarcooking.com
				




Refrigerators, well that is a toss up and also depends on if you are looking at built-in or not. LG has been a nightmare for most people, not sure you do any better with the other HD brands. Might look at the GE Monogram is their high end line, Sub-Zero seems like quite a few complaints about reliability, but then that applies to most appliances these days. I recall Wolf and Viking refrigerators are based on Sub-Zero units. The newer LG had numerous issues with their sealed system and also their variable speed compressors failing. According to LG they have changed the sealed system when I checked a year ago, poor souls that have the models form previous years.  I had one on order for the garage and switched to a Samsung.

Dishwasher probably the Bosch or Miele, we have the Bosch it is OK. Had a repair man fixing our Viking appliance (under the Home Warranty), he said skip the fancy ones with all the cycles and also ones with plastic tubes, the models change so frequently it is hard to say if you get lucky or get a lemon. I tend to read the reviews and see if they honor warranty and repair. One again more issues/complaints with the LG/Samsung at least 2 years ago when I was looking at a replacement. Our Viking (made by Bosch) is 10 years old and unless you preclean the plates, they do not get that clean. Newer models might be better. I would check Consumers Report and reviews on whatever models you are looking at.

Microwave, Panasonic has been reliable, ironically Viking re badges the Panasonic with some fancy sheet metal and charges 4-5X the price.

Have had Grohe faucets through the years, they work well, but not inexpensive.

Appliance these days, and also has been posted in he forum, are not designed to last decades anymore, just long enough for their warranty to run out.


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## aliva (Nov 19, 2021)

I have all Kitchen Aid appliances for the last 14 years so far no issues. Had and old Maytag washer for over 26 years it finally gave out, replaced with a new Maytag washer only  lasted 8 years. Replaced it with another Maytag with less bells and whistle's


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## davidpbest (Nov 19, 2021)

I run a remodel *consulting business* and specialize in chef’s kitchens, so the appliance issue is one of my paramount concerns.  You are right to have a pretty dim view of most of the brands at HD and Lowes (Samsung being the worst IMO).  There are a few exceptions.  But when my clients have the budget, I will consistently steer them to Wolf ranges and vent hoods, Sub-Zero refrig, and Miele dishwasher and laundry components.  Yes, they are ridiculously expensive, but they are built to last and are serviceable.  For the more value conscious clients, I recommend Liebherr and Bosch refrig, BlueStar ranges (which I have in my kitchen), but stick with Miele for the DW (not cheap, but outstanding performance and longevity).  If you don’t want to spend $5K on the Miele laundry, be prepared for a 6-8 year replacement cycle.


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## Aukai (Nov 19, 2021)

Thank you Mark, I'm checking on those, not sure of availability, but good to look at what's out there.
Thank you David, I was hoping you would chime in. I have feelers out for the BlueStar range, dw is not a concern. Sub Zero is the fridge I'm looking at, but the new 5 door Kitchen aid is interesting...


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## RJSakowski (Nov 19, 2021)

Aaron_W said:


> Since Covid started I have been at war with rodents. Never so much as a mouse turd in the house before but once the local businesses (restaurants) a couple blocks away shut down, we got invaded by rats and mice. I'm worried they may have got into the wiring so may not be the fault of the appliances.


A year ago, my wife heard a noise when she opened the dishwasher door.  It turned out to be some dog kibble dropping out of the door.  I took the front panel off and there was several lbs of kibble stored in the door.  The mouse had carried it in one chunk at a time trough an opening for the electrical wiring to the front panel controls.   Fortunately, none of the wire was damaged.  I made a sheet metal baffle to close off the opening which I believed has closed off the passage.  We have a constant battle with mice in spite of my crawling around the foundation and sealin any possible entry point.  It gets worse in the fall and early winter when they are coming in from the field for a warmer den.


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## davidpbest (Nov 19, 2021)

Aukai said:


> Thank you Mark, I'm checking on those, not sure of availability, but good to look at what's out there.
> Thank you David, I was hoping you would chime in. I have feelers out for the BlueStar range, dw is not a concern. Sub Zero is the fridge I'm looking at, but the new 5 door Kitchen aid is interesting...


Agree - the Kitchen Aid 5-door does look interesting.   Of course, this is NOT a counter-depth unit - it's 36" deep and nearly impossible to configure as a counter-flush system (because of the hinges) even if you have the required depth.  Unlike the SubZero which can be configured to nearly flush, the Kitchen Aid will always stand proud of the cabinets by a good 8-inches or more.  That aspect may or may not be a concern in your situation depending on layout and esthetic preferences.

My biggest concern about the Kitchen Aid unit is the in-door ice maker - especially in humid install locations.  There isn't a lot of data on it yet, but the Samsung attempt to employ an in-door ice delivery with the ice maker itself in the refrigerator section has been a total disaster.  Massive litigation that went to class action status and has remained unresolved for years - ultimately the lawyers with be the beneficiaries of that suit, not the Samsung owners.  There is even a _*Facebook group*_ specifically dedicated to Samsung ice-in-door refrigerator owners that has 89,000 members all screaming their heads off about it.  All those Samsung in-door ice delivery units have an average 2 year mean-time-between-failure, and users are constantly plagued with having to manually defrost the ice maker to get it functioning.  

The Kitchen Aid ice maker unit is different in that it resides inside the door, but it is still in the refrigerator section, and thus exposed to constant thermal cycling with the door opening/closing, which causes frost build-up and freezing-over that disables the ice making mechanisms.  So I'm leery of it until there is more in-field use and reporting.  

David


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## SLK001 (Nov 19, 2021)

Stay away from Samsung dishwashers and refrigerators.  I've had two of their dishwashers and both sucked.  It couldn't get the dishes clean if its life depended on it - which it did.  Replaced the last one with a Whirlpool stainless and it finally gets the dishes clean.  I have a friend with one of their bottom freezer refrigerator and the top part keeps freezing up.  You'd think that the price they charge for their products that they would at least know what they were doing.  Sadly, 'tain't so.


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## Aukai (Nov 19, 2021)

I'll stick to the Sub-Zero then, thank you for the heads up. This is why I'm asking, we have a group here with a wealth of knowledge


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## MikeInOr (Nov 19, 2021)

My Samsung refrigerator is not very sturdy.  The wedge shaped piece in the hinge under the door that closes the door broke within a year.  The ice maker and ice dispenser have always been problematic and the middle of the interior of the refrigerator got wider to the point that I had to add shims on each side of the shelf to keep it centered to keep it from falling down.  This is about a 6 year old refrigerator.

My 4yo GE dishwasher does an excellent job but I had to replace the control board in it a couple months ago.

My 20yo Jenn Air down draft range has developed an electrical problem.

Bosch dishwashers do appear to be rugged but they don't have a grinder in the bottom so my gf has to pull the strainer out of the bottom of her dishwasher and clean it out every couple of washes.  My GE dishwasher (that I replaced the control board in myself) does a MUCH better job cleaning the dishes... even through it takes many hours to do so!

I just don't think anyone makes decent appliances any more!

What ever you decide to get for your customer factor in a decent amount of post install support for when they have problems with the appliances.  They WILL call you first even if you make it VERY clear that you are not responsible if there are problems with the appliances.

An old fashioned cast iron wood fired oven might be the best way to go to avoid issues.


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## 7milesup (Nov 19, 2021)

We built our new house in 2019 and appliances are always a big investment and a concern for me.  Trying to find the balance of cost vs reliability.  
We had Electrolux full freezer and full refrigerator side by sides and after about 10 years they stopped cooling.  I was able to install a bullet valve and re-charge the freezer.  Did the same on the fridge, twice, but it finally gave out.  Electrolux oven that I had to replace twice.  Totally not worth it.  
Our current house has all Bosch appliances except the microwave which is LG.  The washer and dryer are LG and so far we love them.  My wife wanted a fridge that did not have an ice maker in the door.  Bosch was just coming out with their new line of refrigerator/freezers and we loved the look and the lack of electronic crap on it.   *Bosch B36Ct80SNS fridge*.  
My hood is Vent-A-Hood, which in my opinion is the best you can buy.  No filters and quiet.

As SLK001 just mentioned, stay away from Samsung.  Warners Stellian in MSP/STP pretty much doesn't even handle them anymore.  You can buy them, but they don't have them in their stores.  Samsung has developed their products to a price point but included lots of "cool" features, such as a computer screen on the front of some of their products, to appeal to the mass market gizmo seekers.  In the end, they are junk.

Looking at reviews I have always felt that the high-end (Wolf, Thermadore, Fischer, etc) did not provide a commensurate level of reliability to go along with their huge price tag.

Also, for those interested, here is a list of who owns who...
Whirlpool Corporation owns the Jenn-Air, Maytag, Amana, Roper, and KitchenAid brands.
Electrolux company currently owns Frigidaire, Tappan, Kelvinator and Gibson appliance brands.  
Haier manufactures GE, Hotpoint, Cafe, Profile, and Monogram branded household appliances.
Samsung owns Dacor.
LG owns Lg.


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## Aukai (Nov 19, 2021)

The Wolf/Sub-Zero installer/repair guy has been a personal friend for YEARS, so I have one dependable person at least.


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## 7milesup (Nov 19, 2021)

Aukai said:


> I'll stick to the Sub-Zero then, thank you for the heads up. This is why I'm asking, we have a group here with a wealth of knowledge



I am surprised with the number of guys that have these high-end appliances here on H-M.   
We apparently have a group of knowledgable and wealthy folks here.  LOL.


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## Aaron_W (Nov 19, 2021)

SLK001 said:


> Stay away from Samsung dishwashers and refrigerators.  I've had two of their dishwashers and both sucked.  It couldn't get the dishes clean if its life depended on it - which it did.  Replaced the last one with a Whirlpool stainless and it finally gets the dishes clean.  I have a friend with one of their bottom freezer refrigerator and the top part keeps freezing up.  You'd think that the price they charge for their products that they would at least know what they were doing.  Sadly, 'tain't so.



They make nice TVs, phones and tablets so at least the wifi probably works well on their appliances.    The reviews I've read kept me from even considering them for an appliance.

I still can't believe the washer and dryer we bought last year has a touch screen and blue tooth. WTF it is a washing machine, it just needs a knob and a button.


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## alloy (Nov 19, 2021)

Well didn't cost me as much as I thought it would to appease my wife and let me work in my shop without supervision because of my fall.  I bought this from home depot.  Once my wife saw "wifi" I was sunk.  It has 5 star rating, air fry and "wifi".  Free delivery on 11-27.  I bought the 5 year warranty also. 

Can't wait for that sweet sexy Chinese voice telling me I've made you orange chicken 









						Samsung 6.3 cu. ft. Smart Wi-Fi Enabled Convection Electric Range with No Preheat AirFry in Black NE63A6511SB - The Home Depot
					

Elevate the look of your kitchen with Samsung's new Smart Freestanding Electric Range. This large 6.3 cu. ft. oven can fit multiple dishes at one time and can easily accommodate big casserole dishes and



					www.homedepot.com


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## ahazi (Nov 20, 2021)

RJSakowski said:


> A year ago, my wife heard a noise when she opened the dishwasher door.  It turned out to be some dog kibble dropping out of the door.  I took the front panel off and there was several lbs of kibble stored in the door.  The mouse had carried it in one chunk at a time trough an opening for the electrical wiring to the front panel controls.   Fortunately, none of the wire was damaged.  I made a sheet metal baffle to close off the opening which I believed has closed off the passage.  We have a constant battle with mice in spite of my crawling around the foundation and sealin any possible entry point.  It gets worse in the fall and early winter when they are coming in from the field for a warmer den.


for the mouse problems get these traps, arrange them in an array in suspected areas with peanut butter. It does miracles by quickly getting the mice...

Ariel


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## SLK001 (Nov 20, 2021)

ahazi said:


> for the mouse problems get these traps, arrange them in an array in suspected areas with peanut butter. It does miracles by quickly getting the mice...
> 
> Ariel



To heck with that... just get some Victors, bait with PB and ATTACK!  Set out at least four - mice travel in family groups.  Keep setting them up until they no longer are "full" in the morning.


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## koenbro (Nov 20, 2021)

When we redid our kitchen 4 yrs ago I wanted an all Miele package with an induction cooktop, but wife wanted the Gaggenau cooktop; we ended up with a Miele oven and microwave/oven combo, Gaggenau induction top, Thermador fridge and two Bosch dishwashers. 

They all work great, but I would still go all Miele. 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## projectnut (Nov 20, 2021)

SLK001 said:


> To heck with that... just get some Victors, bait with PB and ATTACK!  Set out at least four - mice travel in family groups.  Keep setting them up until they no longer are "full" in the morning.


For years we had a mouse problem at the family cottage.  It all started after a remodeling project.   We found 1 mouse in the furnace room so we decided to put out the PB baited traps.  In short order we were catching 4 to 5 mice a month. 

We inspected the place and thought we'd thoroughly sealed it up, but kept catching mice in the furnace room only.  We even had a couple exterminators come in to try to solve the problem but had no luck.  One of the exterminators mentioned we might be attracting mice since they have a keen sense of smell. 



			https://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/victor-easy-set-mouse-traps-4-pk/0000000006822?Ntt=mouse%20trap
		


He was right.  We tried the pre-baited traps from the local farm store and the mouse population went to nearly zero.  We still occasionally catch one or two in the fall months, but not nearly as many as when we were using the PB as bait.  Every year we inspect the entire place trying to find where they come in.  So far no luck.


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## RJSakowski (Nov 20, 2021)

I use the old style Victor mouse traps.  I tied the newer style but they aren't a sensitive as the old ones.  I set traps out when I spot evidence of mice and usually clean them up in a few days.  Then I get lax with no activity until the next sighting.   Living in a 110 y.o. farm house has its problems. For the ost part, they are confined to the basement but every once3 in a while, one will venture upstairs.   I've sealed up most of the entry points but there is obviously one or more that I missed.


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## rwm (Nov 20, 2021)

To change gears slightly; I can highly recommend the Speed Queen series of washers. We went through several brands over 10 years and my wife always had complaints. Speed Queen is known for making commercial washers but now has a residential line. They are built like a tank and have a true 10 year warranty. They are NOT water conserving if that is important to you. They do get your clothes clean!

Edit:
Looks like they have shortened the warranty to 3,5 or 7 years depending on the model


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## FOMOGO (Nov 20, 2021)

My mom always swore by Speed Queen. Mike


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## Aukai (Nov 20, 2021)

koenbro nicely done.
RWM, I'll check with the repair guy to see if it's a brand he can service. I'm out in Bum F*** Nowhere, that has a lot to do with what I have to choose from.


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## MikeInOr (Nov 21, 2021)

Before spending a lot of money on pricier name brands of appliances I would recommend a little research to see if that fancy name actually has factories that actually manufacture appliances.  I think there are very few actual appliance manufactures and most name brands are made in the same Chinese factories as all the other names and just badged with a traditionally fancy name and an associate fancy price.


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## Aukai (Nov 21, 2021)

BlueStar is in Pennsylvania, and Sub-Zero is in Wisconsin, and Arizona. I'm still not finalized on the fridge yet, still comparing.


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## mksj (Nov 21, 2021)

One of the things that I sorely miss on the gas ranges is a high BTU burner if you need to sear or for using a wok. Years ago I had the installed a Dynasty 5 burner range, the center burner was 25,000 BTU and was the only residential range that I have used that could do a decent job in doing Chinese cooking. They are out of business, and typically burners are rated at 15,000 BTU, sometimes 18,000. The Wolf ranges are 15,000 BTU. Depending on the Bluestar model they have a range of burners depending  up to 22,000 and 25,000 BTU, and the burner style give more even heating. Really depends on the type of cooking one does as to the range and the values vs. function is a hard one.   Typically the high end brands are not discounted, and service can be a nightmare. Looks like there is a Bluestar dealer in Honolulu, but if your friend deals with Wolf it may be a better choice at that price level. Wold is also aligned with Sub-Zero, I try to avoid the really fancy models, just  more to go wrong.


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## Aukai (Nov 21, 2021)

There is a hot rod modification for the BlueStar, you can change out the orifice jet, and put in the 22K jet.


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## davidpbest (Nov 21, 2021)

I ordered my BlueStar range with a 25K BTU burner and agree with everything Mark has said.  It brings a pasta or lobster pot to a boil in a snap and is terrific for Asian-style Wok cooking.  I'm never going back.  My range came with one oven shelf-rack that has ball bearing slides which is great for pulling out an toothpick testing a cake or soufflé for instance without it deflating.  The other two shelf-racks are not on bearing slides are are fussy to move in/out compared to a Wolf or the bearing slide version.  I'm considering ordering another shelf-rack with bearing slides.


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## matthewsx (Nov 21, 2021)

Any good recommendations on toasters, mine is toast and I just got it a few months back.

John


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## 7milesup (Nov 21, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> Any good recommendations on toasters, mine is toast and I just got it a few months back.
> 
> John


Oh man.... LOL
You guys crack me up.


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## matthewsx (Nov 22, 2021)

Went with the $30 Cuisinart. Can’t risk not having toast this holiday week.


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## MikeInOr (Nov 22, 2021)

matthewsx said:


> Any good recommendations on toasters, mine is toast and I just got it a few months back.
> 
> John


I have had a Delonghi toaster for about 15 years now that I love.  It has 2 long slots that hold 4 pieces of standardized bread but I also frequently use it to toast a couple of long sour dough bread slices from a round sour dough loaf.  At the end of the toasting cycle when the toast pops up it does not clear the top of the toaster.  This keeps the toast top to bottom until you give the toaster handle a little tap which does push the toast up past the top of the toaster so you can grab it easily.  It does great on toast, bagels and chocolate chip cookies.


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## davidpbest (Nov 22, 2021)

The _*Hatco ITQ-875-1C*_ Intelligent Toast-Qwik is terrific - works equally well for toast, bagles, and pre-heating bearings for pressing onto shafts.


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