# Gold plated 9A



## martik777

*Gold plated 9A - $5000*

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3840577039.html

Looks impressive but I'd be afraid to get it dirty. Not to mention one could get a  decent heavy 10 and a Bridgeport for that kind of money.


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## fretsman

It sure is a pretty one, for sure-

Dave


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## macrnr

Nice. One could get a decent Monarch for that price though.


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## 8ntsane

Yep, it sure looks nice.
But for 5-grand, I would think  for that kind of coin, there is lots of lathes out there.


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## Ben

While not for me either, I can really appreciate the work he put into the lathe and hope that someone that can love her buys it.


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## ScrapMetal

It may seem high but if the ways are back to factory spec or better it can be compared to a brand new lathe.  Let's see, a brand new American made manual lathe goes for how much?

I don't see that price as being too unreasonable.

JMHO

-Ron


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## OrangeAlpine

Where are all the "You get what you pay for" guys?

Bill

BTW, it IS a beautiful job and probably worth the money.


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## macrnr

If it was a heavy 10 with the large spindle bore I would say it was worth the money. At the end of the day it is a very pretty "hobby" lathe. I think there are too many limitations on this machine to justify such a high price.


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## Daver

I'm kinda surprised by the reactions here...

Someone figure out how much all the tooling and accessories are worth:

Micrometers, dial indicators, collets, collet closer, chucks, faceplate, tooling, QCTP...
Now add in that there should be no cleanup, and aside from leveling it properly.. .no setup adjustments needed.

And a smoking clean bench/setup/etc.

It is a turn-key setup for anyone who has dabbled with a mini and ready to move up. etc. Or someone who wants to start from scratch and doesn't want to try and figure out what all they need and buy it all piecemeal.

I don't think the price is totally unreasonable.

Just my $0.02


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## macrnr

Daver said:


> I'm kinda surprised by the reactions here...
> 
> Someone figure out how much all the tooling and accessories are worth:
> 
> Micrometers, dial indicators, collets, collet closer, chucks, faceplate, tooling, QCTP...
> Now add in that there should be no cleanup, and aside from leveling it properly.. .no setup adjustments needed.
> 
> And a smoking clean bench/setup/etc.
> 
> It is a turn-key setup for anyone who has dabbled with a mini and ready to move up. etc. Or someone who wants to start from scratch and doesn't want to try and figure out what all they need and buy it all piecemeal.
> 
> I don't think the price is totally unreasonable.
> 
> Just my $0.02


buy it......


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## PurpLev

looks mighty clean.

it being nice and clean should add more of a buyers appeal to it less so than market value. While it comes with several accessories like a collet closer and some chucks and mics i don't see anything that would justify the high price and it doesn't seem to be a turn-key system as you would still need to purchase quite a bit more to crank any parts out of this - which - is still limited to what a 9" lathe can produce.

at $2Kish this would be a reasonable sale... but at asking price I'd be looking at hardinge/EE/10H


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## Ulma Doctor

Apparently no one has considered that just the scraping job alone took 100 hours or more.
if you were to pay a professional scraper to do the same job you'd be looking at 10k, plus parts.

JMHO


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## macrnr

There is a saying in Real Estate "Don't overbuild your neighborhood". I am not being disrespectful of that beautiful machine, but a 9" lathe is probably not worth expending that much time & money on.


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## icore3user

I tend to agree, to me it's like a custom car or truck, all the hours and money someone puts into it will never equate what the buyer thinks it worth, they will never value it the same as the restorer will, hence the disparity in pricing. You cannot put a value on all the labor and equate that to a given price tag, as if you calc the hours, you always find that it is way more than what would be justified for a given project. This is not to say certain projects can't command more than others, and therefore might be worth a restore with a possible profit, but even then there will be times when pricing will go up and down depending on the economy, and what once was a bargain one day, is now way over priced no matter how well done the restoration. this is true of cars, houses and machinery ( any anything else for that can be bought or sold ). There is also some who will buy just to have it, and if I hit the lottery and felt like I had to have that lathe, then chances are I would buy it no questions asked.

- Al


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## george wilson

It beats buying a semi clone Southbend from Grizzly,and getting NO accessories for even MORE money. With the work that has gone into it,I think it is a good buy,especially with all the accessories,if you want a small lathe. Were it closer,I'd be tempted,though I have an HLVH and a 16" x 40" lathe. I like the great range of threads the SB will cut. My HLVH cuts relatively few,unless you pay huge bucks for extra gears for EACH extra thread you want to make. Some are $500.00 a pair (if they are still available).

It also beats the pants off of a Myford,which is engineered much like an Atlas,and costs a fortune with power cross feed. They are cute,but not great machines.


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## Ray C

I like (and respect) all the work put into that lathe and hope he finds the right buyer for it.  There are soooo many machines out there that have been disassembled, degreased, painted and reassembled -and cut no better than they did prior to the "make-over".  This one looks to be truly worked-over and vastly improved over it's original capabilities.  He'd probably be better off advertising on feeBay.  If I were the "Jay Lenno" of machine shop equipment, I'd buy it -and use it!



Ray


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## hman

Now reduced to $4000!

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3840577039.html

- John Herrmann


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## itsme_Bernie

*Re: Gold plated 9A - $5000*

I agree with many of you guys, but I also hope he gets it.  Beautiful work.

I think it is worth every penny, to the right person- who wants that size lathe.  A bargain, actually. 

It is fine for us to each decide what we would get instead, but I would NOT think it is fair to really compare this to a used and unrestored machine.  Apples and oranges.  That is like saying "I can get this used Ferrari for less than this new Toyota Camry" (actual truth, look in the Want Ad's).   I would sure as hell want a ride in the Ferrari, but I'd buy the Camry!  (Holy cow have I changed in twenty years hah hah) 

I know my own situation would make me think of other used machines first, because I enjoy making things work, and getting a "deal".  But I think we need to remember that there are many people who would prefer to just "get to work" instead of needing to restore something, find parts, troubleshoot.  You know, like all the original owners of these machines used to be able to do!!  

I think it is worth the original price of $5000.  I wish he could hold on to it and get that price.  I would also love to see him restore a Heavy Ten, or Hardinge.

It would be pretty exciting to see the Monarch done that way too, but that would also be a remarkably more complicated project.


Bernie


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## macrnr

It all comes back to the spindle having a 11/16" thru-hole. Kinda of like restoring a Chevy Vega or a Ford Pinto............


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## Ray C

*Re: Gold plated 9A - $5000*

Really good points, Bernie...

My only hope is that this fellow was aware that his potential clientelle is very limited and there's a good chance he'll lose money on the deal. Maybe yes, maybe no... It was no doubt a labor of love and the money he spent might be worth the pleasure of doing the work... This fellow went way beyond degrease, paint and swap parts with other worn-out parts from eBay. In a way, I too would like to see him work-over a Hardinge or Monarch but, in all honesty modern versions of the HLV are available in abundance and after a couple experiences of my own, I would get a new one unless three important critera are met 1) It has to be capable of performing at 90% (or better) it's original abilities 2) Whatever defects it has must be repairable and 3) the total price including repairs must be sustantially lower than the total cost of an equivalent new unit. Tough criteria -but I value my time as well as the pocketbook of my (very) small-time business.


Ray



_I agree with many of you guys, but I also hope he gets it. Beautiful work.

I think it is worth every penny, to the right person- who wants that size lathe. A bargain, actually. 

It is fine for us to each decide what we would get instead, but I would NOT think it is fair to really compare this to a used and unrestored machine. Apples and oranges. That is like saying "I can get this used Ferrari for less than this new Toyota Camry" (actual truth, look in the Want Ad's). I would sure as hell want a ride in the Ferrari, but I'd buy the Camry! (Holy cow have I changed in twenty years hah hah) 

I know my own situation would make me think of other used machines first, because I enjoy making things work, and getting a "deal". But I think we need to remember that there are many people who would prefer to just "get to work" instead of needing to restore something, find parts, troubleshoot. You know, like all the original owners of these machines used to be able to do!! 

I think it is worth the original price of $5000. I wish he could hold on to it and get that price. I would also love to see him restore a Heavy Ten, or Hardinge.

It would be pretty exciting to see the Monarch done that way too, but that would also be a remarkably more complicated project.


Bernie_


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## itsme_Bernie

*Re: Gold plated 9A - $5000*

Thanks Ray-

I'm going to call him just to tell him.  I think it is worth the time.  Sort of like bothering to communicate with old teachers years later who had a positive influence.  A few words can mean something.  Of course, $4k in his pocket would be worth a lot more!!  XD

  I wrote an email, sent it through Craigslist,must to see in his listing that he doesn't want emails!  Hah.  



Bernie


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## itsme_Bernie

*Re: Gold plated 9A - $5000*

Richard King- are you about there?  Is there a way to draw the attention of a member here to this thread?

WELL, did I just have an interesting conversation!

Phil Perry, the rebuilder of the lathe we are discussing, is a truly interesting guy.  A self proclaimed "hermit on a farm", he is not on message boards.
We just spoke for almost half an hour, only shortened by my need to pick up my daughter.   I asked him if he has restored other machines in the past, and he has- and sold a few..  I asked if he would mind sending me some pics so I could post them here, and he reluctantly agreed   ...  So I will post them when I get them later on today.

***  The first thing I have to say is if ANY of you have teachers or other people how greatly influenced your life, bother to get in touch with them and let them know!

After finding out what inspired him years ago, as he has been doing this for a while now, it turns out that an article in Home Shop Machinist Magazine sparked his interest twenty years ago.  It then inspired him to communicate with the article's AUTHOR to take a HIS SCRAPING CLASS fifteen years ago!  Is Richard King reading this? 



Bernie


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## Richard King

Hi...

I usually don't read every post on here especially when I'm doing a scraping job.  Like I have been doing all week on an emergency for a cool company here in St. Paul MN called Viking Drill who is (what they tell me) one of the 2 companies left in the USA that make drills, taps and reamers.  

I think I know who your talking about, it's been several years when I taught a class here in my shop and I had 3 students, 2 from PA who were electronic techs that said every now and then someone had a gib that needed new turcite.  Then there was "Phil"  who lived in Roberts Wisconsin who was a PHD in Engineering I think and who had got sick of his job.  He quit and started to repair watches, clocks and Indicators.  He lived in a mobile home and had built an attached shop to it.   Inside the shop he had another room he built around a Bridgeport 2 mill.  He came to the class and his arm hurt, but he scraped away and listened. (he told me later he had that bacterial that ate flesh, he was hospitalized after the class, that's a scary deal)....But he had a small lathe, I think a Logan and he was scraping the compound for his class project.  

He asked who he could send the bed to and get it ground.  I told him who to call and a few months later he called me to come and look at it.  Roberts is about 30 min from my home and drove over.  He showed me his watch making lathes and mills, so tiny and in the back of the shop was his lathe he had rebuilt.   It looked very professional...A few months later I needed my Inter-rapid indicator over to him and he was telling me he bought a small farm in Kansas..or someplace like that out in the boonies where he the county sold the place for back taxes..or some deal like that.  I sometime think of him as he was a neat guy, I always wondered what had  happened to him...next time you talk to him,  please tell him I am proud of him and hello. I hope he is who your discussing.  

I have had several student over the years that I think of now and then.  One who can't join this forum is Robert George down in Texas, Jim from the GA class, Jim from the last one in CA....The young man in Istanbul who made me cry when he hugged me and said I reminded him of his decease father who had taught him to be a man.  Several others too....My heritage to this industry is my "Kids" who I have taught to scrape.  I now call all my students my kids.  I always tell them they will make me proud when they teach someone else and pass on the 
"_Lost Art of Scraping." _

Thanks for inviting me to come and read this makes me so proud when I hear about how well my kids are doing.  Makes me Happy!
Rich


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## Uncle Buck

ScrapMetal said:


> It may seem high but if the ways are back to factory spec or better it can be compared to a brand new lathe.  Let's see, a brand new American made manual lathe goes for how much?
> 
> I don't see that price as being too unreasonable.
> 
> JMHO
> 
> -Ron


  I agree, those were my thoughts as well.


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## Richard King

UPDATE:

I called the phone number in the CraigsList link and sure enough it is my old student   .  He was out, but I talked to his wife....We chatted for 10 min and next time I drive down to my cabin in MO , we are going to meet for lunch.    Will tell more later...  Thanks Bernie, it was so nice of you to let me know....  Have a great weekend.  Rich


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## Uncle Buck

So where else can you get a like new, or better than new SB machine or any other USA brand machine these days at any price? Personally, I think those that see this as a decent deal are probably more hung up on USA made machines than those that do not see this as a decent deal. Mind you I am not trying to poke anyone in the eye with the USA made machines thing but rather I am simply sharing an opinion.


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## itsme_Bernie

Richard King said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> I called the phone number in the CraigsList link and sure enough it is my old student   .  He was out, but I talked to his wife....We chatted for 10 min and next time I drive down to my cabin in MO , we are going to meet for lunch.    Will tell more later...  Thanks Bernie, it was so nice of you to let me know....  Have a great weekend.  Rich



That is fantastic Richard!  That is just great.  He was very interested in getting back in touch with you- he thought you might remember him!  And I am glad you would see his work-  I will be posting it tomorrow on this thread.  He reluctantly agreed to send me pics of his other projects, since I told him it would help and inspire others.

I think people need to remember how much energy those who teach us pour into teaching.  I think it is important to show those teachers, when we can, the fruits of their labor.



Bernie


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## Richard King

Thanks Bernie,

Uncle Buck, Some like to have old iron because it's "Made in America"  and made to last.  Seeing some of these  Chinese machines in my classes, I can't imagine a Chinese made lathe lasting 50 to 100 years.  It's like buying a cherry 1966 Mustang or  68 Chevelle.  
I can imagine the complete rebuild took 200 hours plus all the tooling, painting,  I bet he won't make much profit.  
I bet this not only my opinion either.



1968 chevelle
888 x 626 pixels
254KB
The image is at: 
www.seriouswheels.com/1960-1969/1968-Chevrolet-Chevelle-Hardto...

PS:  There are some really great Japanese and Taiwan made machines.  But these cheap made imports will be in the scrap yard while that SB will be running in another 100 years.


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## fastback

Richard, nice Chevelle.  The old mustangs and chevelles will only last another 100 years if we are here to take care of them.  The new generation likes the rice burners.  Not only that, but we may run out of gas long before they are worn out.


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## ScrapMetal

Glad to hear it Phil.  It's great that you found someone who appreciated the work/value you put in to it. 

-Ron


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## george wilson

Phil,I am glad too. The artist in me really loved the beautiful job you did on the lathe. Keep it up by all means!! I know you were working CHEAP to sell the lathe for what you did.


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## Richard King

Phil Perry said:


> Gentlemen:
> 
> The "Gold plated" 9A was sold the other day for the price I was asking.  You've gotta admit it is a thing of beauty and is in all respects a new machine, not just the same 'ol machine with a new coat of paint.  It is going in a shop, not a living room................
> 
> I've just started on my next restoration, another South Bend 9A on a factory 3 drawer cabinet with underneath drive.  I'll scrape it, turcite it and do my magic!  It will be a joy to behold when I'm done!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Phil




Phil, I am sorry we were playing telephone tag.  Phil was one of my students a long time ago and he attended a class I had in my shop here in MN.  To make a long story short, he went home and rebuild his small lathe.  I was and am still proud of him.  Inside his shop he had watch maker lathes; gear hobs, so small...all to repair watches and time pieces.  He repaired my Inter-rapid dial Indicator.  I love the South Bend. I wish I would have the extra money I would have bought it from you.  Rich

PS:  I sure want to come and visit sometime...give you a guy hug  :high5:


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## wrmiller

I saw this lathe when it was listed. Absolutely beautiful. I wanted it really bad too, but unfortunately, just couldn't afford it.


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## martik777

It would be interesting to see a photo shoot of the restore/rebuild process. I wonder if he had the bed reground then scraped it or was the wear small enough that he only needed a light scraping. 

I'm glad he sold it for full price, he certainly earned it.


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## wrmiller

Very nice. I wish I had the time, skill, patience, and room to do something like that.

You'll excuse me now, I have to find a napkin to wipe up the drool...


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## george wilson

Hey,Phill: Whazzat real glittery lookin stuf on them  lathe ways?

An how many inches duz this one have between them centers? This here one looks longer than that there first gold plated one. This'n looks like one of them there 32" ones.

You know,it takes money to make money,an if you had my super duper automated Biax scraper you could make that there money quicker. Letz try to make a deal this here time around. But,law me! This'n is gonna cost me a million dollars to ship.

I don't need no extra toolin az u know. i have got a real purtty  tracin attachment for one of them nine inch lathes.

When I wuz in Williamsburg I got me a letter jus like this un from a feller who thought he had him a passel of them Stradivarious various violins. He said he cliked gud old violins. I want to clikt me one of these here lathes.


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## Richard King

Phil Perry said:


> Gentlemen:
> 
> I'm pleased you like my work, I appreciate that!  I'm now working on another South Bend, a 9" model A on a factory underdrive cabinet.  I've started scraping the bed, getting the carrage and compound ready to remachine the dovetails and cleaning, painting and polishing the various parts involved.
> 
> I found 4 and a half thou wear on the front ways, not really a lot of wear and not hard to scrape back to flatness and truth.  I scraped the back ways first and am close to being finished on the front.  Richard, you'll notice my version of a baby King Way on the bed, It would be really dificult to scrape a bed without it!
> 
> Here are some photos of the progress and process.
> 
> 
> I'm also working on a Benchmaster vertical mill, scraping and turciting it, it's going to be a really neat little machine.  When done with these two, a light ten awaits restoration..............
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> Phil




Master to Master "Phil you are more then a scraper, Your are an Artist"!  The Small King-Way looks super.   Take a look in my photo album I added some pictures.  Rich   

PS:  Take a look at Gearco Mill he finished after my recent GA class.  He is a Master too.  It's in the Machine Scraping and Restoration Forum I help moderate.  Please come and teach in there too.


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## george wilson

Phil: Tell me,does this lathe have the collet attachment like the previous 9" SB lathe? Any taper attachment? I hardly ever use my HLVH without the collets. When making multiple parts,I can give the lever a swift flick to shift more metal forward for the next part. Thus,I avoid the wear and tear on my old relays,and can make parts till the bar of metal has to be replaced without stopping the lathe. I am very conscious of preserving my 1964 relays as they cost a good bit of money. My friend,Jon,who has an earlier model,an HLV,lost use of his lathe for some time until a suitable relay could be located and installed.

I often have to make 100 bezel cups for my wife's jewelry making business. I'd hate to stop my lathe for each piece.


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## Joe0121

*Re: Gold plated 9A - $5000*



Ray C said:


> Really good points, Bernie...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> It is fine for us to each decide what we would get instead, but I would NOT think it is fair to really compare this to a used and unrestored machine. Apples and oranges. That is like saying *"I can get this used Ferrari for less than this new Toyota Camry" (actual truth, look in the Want Ad's).* I would sure as hell want a ride in the Ferrari, but I'd buy the Camry! (Holy cow have I changed in twenty years hah hah)
> 
> I know my own situation would make me think of other used machines first, because I enjoy making things work, and getting a "deal". But I think we need to remember that there are many people who would prefer to just "get to work" instead of needing to restore something, find parts, troubleshoot. You know, like all the original owners of these machines used to be able to do!!
> 
> I think it is worth the original price of $5000. I wish he could hold on to it and get that price. I would also love to see him restore a Heavy Ten, or Hardinge.
> 
> It would be pretty exciting to see the Monarch done that way too, but that would also be a remarkably more complicated project.
> 
> 
> Bernie_


Listen this is off topic but having gone down that road I can tell you "Cheap" super cars cost you the better part of 60% of the purchase price per year in routine maintenance. There is a reason the early 90's late 80 vintage super cars are "cheap" They are slow, unreliable, and expensive to maintain and repair. That and a decent Corvette 4th Gen Zr1 will run circle around them, cost about the same and be 1/10 the cost of upkeep.

- - - Updated - - -



Phil Perry said:


> Gentlemen:
> 
> I'm pleased you like my work, I appreciate that!  I'm now working on another South Bend, a 9" model A on a factory underdrive cabinet.  I've started scraping the bed, getting the carrage and compound ready to remachine the dovetails and cleaning, painting and polishing the various parts involved.
> 
> I found 4 and a half thou wear on the front ways, not really a lot of wear and not hard to scrape back to flatness and truth.  I scraped the back ways first and am close to being finished on the front.  Richard, you'll notice my version of a baby King Way on the bed, It would be really dificult to scrape a bed without it!
> 
> Here are some photos of the progress and process.
> 
> 
> I'm also working on a Benchmaster vertical mill, scraping and turciting it, it's going to be a really neat little machine.  When done with these two, a light ten awaits restoration..............
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> Phil


LOL I just e-mail you from work not realizing you posted in this forum...


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## macrnr

Now that's what I'm talking about.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200943921514


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## martik777

Definitely not in the same league as Phil's work - interesting scrape marks between the ways


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## george wilson

Now,truly,you are getting well int Hardinge HLVH territory,and deep into Monarch 10EE prices for that nice paint job on the heavy 10.


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## Richard King

martik777 said:


> Definitely not in the same league as Phil's work - interesting scrape marks between the ways



IMHO, Those are hiding something like a gauge or scratches. In the used machinery terms "camouflage"  or a "Chicago Job" on that part of the surface between the ways.  It sure has a nice paint job. Looks like it is over priced a lot.  When I used to sell a lot on Ebay I would sometime on the first ad I would put a super high price figuring someone might pay for that much. Next time the price goes  lower.


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## macrnr

seems to me the machine on Ebay is much better candidate to "gold plate". It offers so much more than a 9".


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## Joe0121

Can someone PM me Phil's e-mail? I accidentally deleted it from my work e-mail and I wanted to ask his a question.


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## itsme_Bernie

*Re: Gold plated 9A - $5000*

You got it



Bernie


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