# South Bend A 9" 3 1/2



## Dragon

HI,




I just bought an Old south bend Model A 3 1/2 from somebody bought it for some wood work and he didn't want it anymore,  somebody told me I paid little high for it!

I paid $500   and the lathe is missing tail stock, thread dial, counter shaft, motor 


it comes with old tool post and original  south bend 3 jaw check! 


first I got it home I test the check with my dial (run out indicator) and show about .001  thousands of an inch)  then I removed the check and test the spindle from the inside and from the outside was little space after the thread and the reading for both was 0.00  so there was no movement, the head stock is holding nice and tight!  


then I took the saddle in parts to check the gears and all seems to be good!


The BED and the way are fine but there are a lot of dent and heavy scratches near the head stock , don't know if that will effect the quality of the precision!


the Goal is to use this lathe for my RC helicopter parts fabrications, everybody may know that the Helicopter motors and the shafts run in High RPM's and any run out will cause a big vibrations and my could crash the model!


so I need almost 0.000 run out!  it's may sound  impossible to have that quality with these old lathes but I am trying to spend around $3000 total for getting what I want 


now I  need your guys advises about   either keep it or sale it and get an another one!  

I am very new to this and need your help please!


Thank you


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## atwatterkent

3 jaw chucks always have runout. Some more than others depending on wear. You only need a thread dial if you're planning on threading and even then it's not absolutely necessary. I would suggest that for repeatable near zero runout that you pick up a spindle nose adapter, draw bar and some 3C collets to cover what you need. They are readily available by 64ths from 1/16" up to 1/2". These accessories are readily available on flebay.
You will also need a tailstock, countershaft, on/off switch and motor.


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## Dragon

thank you for the quick responding! that is why I love this website always good people and great info
do you know what kind of dc  motor I will need I saw some ebays vfd and motors for around $200 but not sure what kind and what kv and rpm I will need

I will start looking for  for the spindle nose and the draw bar with some collets, but is there any different between the SB model C and model A?  let say if I find counter shaft, spindle nose, draw bar and collets for model C or B are they all the same and will fit my lathe?

I asked some ebay seller about his tail stock for model C and he reply to me and said (sorry C model tail stock will not fit on A model)!!

can you please give me some idea if these parts will fit any A B C models?

thank you again!


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## atwatterkent

A SB Model A  has a quick change gear box, Model B uses change gears to set threading and saddle feed. Model C uses change gears for threading and has no separate saddle feed except with the half nuts. The head stock and tail stock are interchangeable between models unless it's an old "heavy 9" which you don't have. Many people add a QCGB to convert a Mod C or B  to a Mod A. Yours is a standard Mod A with both x and y axis auto feed.
Most SB collet systems also include a thread protector to protect the spindle threads.
All the spindle nose threads (1 1/2-8) and inside tapers, regardless of model, are the same on a 9" lathe.
Any AC, 120V, 1725 rpm, 1/3 or 1/2 motor will do just fine.


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## Dragon

thank you for sending these pic's, so any AC motor or maybe vfd with dc motor will be good start
I will finish this lathe getting the tail stock, I just bought the Gear Guard and the hunting is continuing!

also I found this lathe on ebay, I emailed the owner, he lives in Texas and I asked him for more pics for the bed and the ways, if it's good enough and worth the shipping, I will then get it to my garage! 
just to own an excellent and perfect lathe will be a bonus.

here is the link for it
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUTH-BEND-...373?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a1e3906d


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## atwatterkent

Seems awful high to me. I bought my first 9" in better shape for half that with more tooling.


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## Dragon

wish I can get one in that price ($500) I will pay another $500 just to get fine machine man! frustrating


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## Dragon

I found this 4" Bed  on ebay, I sent the owner request to send me some more clear pics to the bad areas, the goal is to get excellent condition bed, so he was a nice guy and sent me these pics;

what do you think? what you give this bed from 100% ? is it really excellent? again I need really accurate machine for my hobby use, any bad bed with run out will get me to more problems with the High RPM's

http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-...213?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4d355105

thank you for taking the time to get me in the right line!


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## compsurge

Don't chase 0.000" runout too much. Your machine will only get you so far - hopefully it will meet your needs. You will have to use your skill. I'm not sure what materials you will be using, but if you are using steel, you may want to look into a tool post surface grinder to meet your accuracy requirement.

You can get your bed and saddle reworked. Depending if it is a hardened or soft bed, you can have this done with a planer and hand scraping (soft bed) or a bed grinder (flame hardened). The rebuilders can also work your saddle and put Turcite on the underside to create a new surface and bring the saddle height back up to alignment with the leadscrew, tailstock, and headstock. I would venture to say for your accuracy requirement, this would likely be the route to take.


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## Dragon

Thank you Tim for your explanation, I will definitely go with the tool post grinder since it can get me  close to .000 !

I don't know about my bed and my saddle if they are hardened or soft! so did you mean  what I need is finding somebody can grind my bed and my saddle? 

see that is why I was looking to buy just better Bed or just better lathe and save more time and headache, I heard from somebody that this can cost almost $1000  

yesterday I rechecked the chuck, I put the shaft in, and I start spinning the chuck with my hand and the indicator reading was less than .001 . BUT when I push the chuck hard against me or against the wall the reading is .002 -.003  maybe there is a movement in my spindle !! 

the problem is that most of the lathes out there are not in a great shape anymore,  and I understand it's simply because they are super old, and IF I will again say if I find some good once then it's far a way from where I live or the seller refuse to sale them by shipping (local pick up only)

here is the other found just today;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUTH-BEND-...9221&clkid=4647927694943446685&_qi=RTM2062266


I think in my very simple experience this lathe is original in a great shape and the paint is original (please don't take my word as it's 100% right! but this is what I see through the listing photo, but again the seller refuse to ship!!! what a problem..    

thank you


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## janvanruth

the four foot bed isnt in excellent condition
to me maybe 60%  
i for sure wouldnt buy it to upgrade my 9a


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## lugnard

Here is a nice 10k on ebay for 1700. Looks to be nice with the hardened ways.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUTH-BEND-..._DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46365afd02#ht_0wt_0


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## compsurge

OP, it's likely your bed is soft - I took your serial number and looked it up here: http://www.wswells.com/serial_number.html. The hardened beds will show no signs of hand scraping anywhere and usually have an X in the serial number. You can get your bed planed and scraped cheaper than grinding as far as I am aware. Grinding removes very small amounts of material, while planing is able to take more material off (less time).

Is your lathe complete? I didn't see a drive pulley and motor set.

Also, there should be about 0.0015" "shaft play" on the spindle to accommodate the oil bearing clearance and thermal expansion.


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## Dragon

Tim, my Bed doesn't have X in the SN!  I double checked this and didn't find any X!


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## Dragon

lugnard said:


> Here is a nice 10k on ebay for 1700. Looks to be nice with the hardened ways.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUTH-BEND-..._DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46365afd02#ht_0wt_0



I agree, its a good lathe! and if I buy it will save me a ton of $$$ and time but still for pick up only!


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## Dragon

janvanruth said:


> the four foot bed isnt in excellent condition
> to me maybe 60%
> i for sure wouldnt buy it to upgrade my 9a


and I was giving it about 75%  but you maybe right!   will see if there is any other options!
thank you


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## Dragon

compsurge said:


> OP, it's likely your bed is soft - I took your serial number and looked it up here: http://www.wswells.com/serial_number.html. The hardened beds will show no signs of hand scraping anywhere and usually have an X in the serial number. You can get your bed planed and scraped cheaper than grinding as far as I am aware. Grinding removes very small amounts of material, while planing is able to take more material off (less time).
> 
> Is your lathe complete? I didn't see a drive pulley and motor set.
> 
> Also, there should be about 0.0015" "shaft play" on the spindle to accommodate the oil bearing clearance and thermal expansion.



MY lathe needs countershaft, motor, belt tension belt, tail stock!  the saddle is complete I just took it in parts to check it out, and its seems to be in good shape.
I took the gear box out and I am planing to take it in parts and clean it, maybe paint everything!   but it's looks good to me!


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## ARKnack

Don't under estimate these old lathes. Well worth the money. $500 is a good price for a 9A. Even well used they will be the pants off most of the imports. Since you are new with lathes I would say run this one until you get conformable with it. I have a small 9A and have been learning a lot. I am now ready to move up to a larger size. Before you use it replace the felts. Stevewb on eBay sell kits for these. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rebuild-Boo...639?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2311792617
Join the SB Yahoo group. They have a lot of good information and members to help you out.


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## Dragon

Thank you ARKnack , at less you makes me feel with some hope!  and that was my first point before I got this lathe; is  (learn)  yesterday I took the apron and the gearbox in parts, and I will buy that rebuild kit from the ebay,
the only thing I need is to make sure my bed will get me a nice accurate cuts, my hobby required me  to have a precision cuts and I just don't want to crash  my expensive Helicopters with some runouts on their shafts! 
this is my first build using friend of mine lathe  was fun and the shaft I had to make it was 10mm OD X 7mm ID  with 6mm thread on bottom and the other end of the shaft is only 6mm OD solid and 7mm long 

thank you!


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## compsurge

I think you'll want to get some good 3C collets. I doubt you'll be using the chucks for your projects.


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## Dragon

yes, 100% I will need them, I start shopping for these accessories,

Just bout the tail stock, will strip off  everything and try to restore it in respectable shape!  

thanks for your sharing your information!


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## ARKnack

Dragon said:


> Thank you ARKnack , at less you makes me feel with some hope!  and that was my first point before I got this lathe; is  (learn)  yesterday I took the apron and the gearbox in parts, and I will buy that rebuild kit from the ebay,
> the only thing I need is to make sure my bed will get me a nice accurate cuts, my hobby required me  to have a precision cuts and I just don't want to crash  my expensive Helicopters with some runouts on their shafts!
> this is my first build using friend of mine lathe  was fun and the shaft I had to make it was 10mm OD X 7mm ID  with 6mm thread on bottom and the other end of the shaft is only 6mm OD solid and 7mm long
> 
> thank you!



There are a couple things I learned at different site. First thing to know is I am not a machist. Just a hobbiest. Your accuracy will depend on how long the shaft is. The longer it is the more tolerance required. Collets are very good along with a four jaw chuck. My understanding is the most accurate is between centers. Other will correct me if I am wrong. For straight shafting I would consider using drill rod.


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## Dragon

yes, to use the drill rod is a good option, however if I want to shave a shaft with different measurements, EX:  my latest shaft I made was little  complicated;  the run out was .000 inside and .000 from outside. it took  me about 3 hours to make it 

sometimes I do shafts 270mm long 10mm OD  and that is the longer shafts I need to do, but it need to be hardened and .000 run out otherwise the main rotor for the helicopter will build crazy vibration ending up losing gyroscope electronic stabilization AND smash on the ground 


I need some advises about some parts I found on ebay again (sorry about that, I know I been looking to get my lathe ready as soon as I can), 

I bought his tail stock and it's looks like in decent shape, and he already shipped out  to me ($1oo plus $17 shipping )

so I called him and I asked him if he got the rest of the parts for that lathe, and yes! he got them all

so I started asking him to send me some pics of the Bed, lead screw, countershaft, spindle (since my spindle is been beating up from the front!)  I am thinking to replace it too
so he sent me these pics, he said these parts are for southbend 4 1/2 bed 9" B model   he said ( I can't sale you the spindle itself instead he wants sale all headstock also the saddle I asked him for the handle and the bronze nuts but he said I will not be able to take it in parts instead he want to sale it all!       also he confirm to me that this lathe is in great condition and the original SB motor is still there!!   

he was very nice guy, He asked me to offer him some $$ number but I don't know how much I will pay for these parts IF they are good, he lives in NJ and he is welling to ship the parts one by one to save shipping cost, like the bed and the lead screw will be in different shipment, the headstock with different package Etc..  

so I believe the B has same bed like A model, please correct me if I am wrong. I read somewhere that the south bend B has different bed that the A has!  he said that the bed is in perfect condition. 

thank you for all your inputs


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## Dragon

this was my last shaft I made;

and the other pic for the longer shaft for the main rotor head that I am welling to make some of them, they should run up to 10,000 RPM  without any vibration


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## Dragon

I just read somewhere else that the SB B, C  parts will not fit on SB A  also each Bed and way for each lathe is different than the other!!!

so if I try to use SB B bed or C bed with my SB A head stock and my saddle will need to grind the bed or the parts to get them fit together!   they said just because when they made it back on the days they used different lots! 

what a bad manufacturing if that is correct!


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## compsurge

The headstock and tailstock were hand scraped to fit the bed.

On that note, no two manufactured items are exactly alike.

Have you considered buying a new lathe?


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## compsurge

Here's an example of a very nicely done 9"

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-restored-9-model-south-bend-lathe-ks-267282/

When you're done with yours, it will likely look much like this with regard to the saddle and ways.


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## Dragon

well, I been thinking to buy one of the grizzly's south bend 1001, BUT there is a errors on the bed and the spindle  runout,  that is what I read somewhere and I did call  them, the costumer service are sooooooooooooooooo rude and he is the only one guy is answering the calls and he was sounds like don't like to work in this JOB! 

so I gave up!!    I just decided to buy the countershaft and the motor, since I got the tailstock then my lathe is complete!

also I found on my local  craigslist a guy who want to sale his draw bar comes with 15 PC of 3c collet  adapter and spindle protector, also SB milling attachment with 7 tailstock centers and one tailstock drill chuck  with its handle,  the 4 jaws chuck and the thread dial are not included and he is asking $600  for all that!   I don't know if that a good deal or I am over paying!!  he is waiting for me tomorrow to get him the money and get the parts!


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## compsurge

What is the "error in the bed"? All spindles have runout. How much runout is the question (a Sieg C6 is about 0.00016" and that's pretty good for a $1000 lathe). Some don't measure runout correctly (measuring a chuck runout is NOT the same).

If you are expecting 0.000*0*" runout on your lathe spindle, you're most likley barking up the wrong tree.

$600 seems to high to me. I first read your post as you are getting the countershaft and motor included in this. Is this correct? If it gets you the parts for a complete lathe then you're into it for $1100 so far? Expect to pay about $1000 to get the bed planed and scraped as well as the saddle fit to the bed and the cross slide and compound scraped. You could learn how to do the scraping and do this yourself, but it takes some practice and you will need more tools (not that that is a bad thing of course). It will be well worth it though and I am sure after all is said and done, you will have a very true bed and saddle that you are happy with.

Do you know if the motor in that countershaft functions? It looks like the wiring is pretty ratty.

You might be interested in one of these at some point. It is a casting for adding a T-slot cross slide to your lathe. It does require some milling. http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/S-4382.html


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## Dragon

The last offer I got is to buy drawbar with it's collet 15 pc, collet adaptor, collet key, 7 centers, one live center, and milling attachment for $600 

Since your guys recommend to go with collet setup!! Do you thing this is a good deal or I am overpaying here? 

The eBay sounds very expensive when they sale these tools there!  

So it mybe a good price!


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## compsurge

It might be about right, but I think it's too high. Collets are probably $100-150 for a full set, but they will have some runout. I suspect your final work will be done between centers, but I'm not very experienced in actually making shafts. I would expect the drawbar to sell for around $100 and the milling attachment for $350 (really seems like too much, but it looks like that's the going rate). So I guess $600 seems right, but I'd try to drop it by $50-100.

The question is: do you have a need for the milling attachment? Do you have a milling machine? The milling attachment may be useful for some work such as cutting a keyway and other small parts, but keep in mind the work area will be small.

It also looks like there is a drill chuck and a machinist jack in the photos. Are they included?


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## Dragon

I really appreciate your help and fast responding! 

I may need the milling attachment for my hobby needs, but I better getting a milling machine is that correct?, because it's much better than the milling attachment (another $1300) 

will give you example about what type of milling I need; sometimes I do need to make my own frames like this pic bellow (made from carbon fiber, or soft aluminum metal)  so I can create the shape I want for my Helicopter sides, or sometimes small metal parts like motor mount 47mm wide X 50mm long so the motor can set in between the frames

but I think we both agree the $600 is tight and I may (MAY) get better deal in future! 

now the problem is that if I want to buy the collets by itself and then the draw bar and then the protector they will be more expensive than buy it for $250 from that guy ( he asked $250 only for the collets and the drawbar with it's adapter and the protector parts) 


I just called somebody in my area whose doing grinding for the Bed and he asked me to send him a pic of my bed! 

HOP HOP


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## compsurge

Make sure it's not a soft bed. If it is a soft bed, you just plane (basically a big shaper) and scrape true. If your bed is hardened you will need it ground. Do you have an X in your serial number or a flame hardened label on the right side of the bed?

As far as the milling attachment goes, I'd spring for it. You can always sell it for $250-350. I would venture to say you could mill that part with the attachment, but you'd have to do it in parts if there isn't enough travel.


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## Dragon

OK, I rechecked my Bed SN and it's on the right hand side  it's (B200NK) and the other SN same right hand side it's (26605NAR9)
and there is no hardened label in the lathe   


the other question is : if I want to fill the missing corners from the bed, then how I can do that?  I see some videos on youtube (



   )
this guys used a all purpose welding rods (white) to fill the missing teeth! so can this be used on filling the missing or the gaps in the bed ?

you can see on my bed next to the head stock, it's look like somebody was tried to eating it  !!

thank you for all your inputs
Ozy


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## Dragon

compsurge said:


> It might be about right, but I think it's too high. Collets are probably $100-150 for a full set, but they will have some runout. I suspect your final work will be done between centers, but I'm not very experienced in actually making shafts. I would expect the drawbar to sell for around $100 and the milling attachment for $350 (really seems like too much, but it looks like that's the going rate). So I guess $600 seems right, but I'd try to drop it by $50-100.
> 
> The question is: do you have a need for the milling attachment? Do you have a milling machine? The milling attachment may be useful for some work such as cutting a keyway and other small parts, but keep in mind the work area will be small.
> 
> It also looks like there is a drill chuck and a machinist jack in the photos. Are they included?




the drill chuck is included but the 4 jaws chuck and the threading dial are not included!  the rest all for $600

I brake it down like this
milling attachment $300
draw bar with spindle protector, key, 15 pc of collets, 3 or 4  of them are hardinge and the rest maybe south bend. all for $250

7 dead centers with one live centers with some other small tools for holding (I think) all for  $50

so what do you think? High or good or good deal!!!


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## compsurge

I'd try to negotiate the thread dial thrown in for the price. I think your breakdown is good.


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## Dragon

tried to negotiate about the thread dial, sent him an email asking him if possible to included  it with the deal,  but he didn't reply to me at all! sent another email, and no hope!

looks like he is so rich! or somebody got them! 

anyway, will keep my eyes on e-bay, 

returned back to the starting point,  looking for countershaft, AC motor, scraping the Bed and the ways, by the way; you asked me if I have X on my Bed, I rechecked that and the SN 26605NAR9 si it;s soft or hardened?

I been watching how to scrape metal  like saddles or flat metals, and they are great! I got a call from the grinding company today to bring them the bronze Nut, do't know why! maybe they want to check ,my saddle! tomorrow to go there and show them the entire saddle with me 

thank you!


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## compsurge

Hopefully it all works out. Be sure to have them determine if it is hardened. If it isn't, grinding isn't the proper method as far as I know. It could be put on a milling machine and finished by hand scraping I imagine. If they want you to bring the bronze nut, they likely need it for alignment or testing the backlash of the screws. They may also be making you a new one.

I do not think your bed is flame hardened. If you go here, you can see what the numbers mean. I read on another thread on this forum that the X usually was added for flame hardened beds and that factory regrinds had an 'R' added at the end of the serial number.

Not sure if I mentioned it yet, but you can get the drive belt at NAPA/Autozone/others. It is a synthetic cut-and-glue-to-size type. I have one on my lathe and it is very nice. You get better grip than the leather belts, it is quieter, and overall just nicer. And cheap too!

I hope to see you up and running soon. Don't worry if that $600 sale doesn't get back to you. I don't think it was the deal of the century, so don't fret over it! At a minimum, you'll want to get a good 0.0005" dial indicator on a good magnetic base and a 4 jaw chuck for your work. I only suggested collets since you will likely be using the same shaft diameters. eBay is your friend - you will only need to get the sizes you'll use. Most collets end up being paperweights!


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## Dragon

I just got a call from the same guy today asking me of I am still interesting on buying his stuff,
so the ball was in my yard and I asked him to include the 4 chuck jaws and the threading indicator,

so he stopped for a second and he answer; well I just listed my chuck and the thread dial on ebay!!

so I asked him to sale them to me with the other stuff all for $600 then he start getting calculating stuff then he said well!! OK, hangup the phone prepaid for going to his home, then he called me and he said I was thinking and NO I want $650!  so since I need his stuff I double think and I said OK...

he met me somewhere in parking lot!!!  and H got them all in his Van, he was a nice guy and he was looking to sale his stuff that he buying them everyday from estate auctions 

so here is the PIC of what I get!!    he was unsure if the drawbar or the other stuff he selling to me  will fit my lathe!  

oh the 4 chuck jaws is not fitting my spindle!!

he is a wood maker and he knows about wood lathes more!

OK I got home and I start fitting the stuff in my lathe,
BUT the spindle thread protector not the same my spindle thread, THIS is the first part not fitting! 

he said that this stuff comes with his Metal lathe that He tried to sale it too (heavy 9 or maybe 11) don't know 

so I took some pics and please tell me if they are the right parts!


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## compsurge

The chuck backplate - if it has one - could always be changed out. Is the chuck marked with a brand? I see it was manufactured in Connecticut, but I can't make out what it says above that line. It's US made, so it *should* be a good bet in terms of quality. You're going to want to tear all of your equipment down and give it a good cleaning and greasing/oiling.

Have you heard back on your lathe bed and saddle rework?


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## Dragon

the chuck have backplate with 4 screws fit from the front of the chuck to hold the plate on the back.  I already started taking all my lathe in a parts and the cleaning will start today!
here is a pic of my chuck. it's South bend brand, made in USA.  

 I got back from the grinding company, the guy was very nice and he explained to me different methods on how to refinish bed.

he said that I can use the Bridgeport mill (or equivalent milling machine) to grind the bed and the ways..

I asked him if I will need scrape it or plane it just because it's soft bed, and he said; no you can grind it and her said he can do it for me but the cost will be around $1500.00
so the milling is another way I can use! 

now the problem is that there is nobody in my state that I know or these people may know can do scraping or planer!  so the last two options is 1- use my friend mill or buy the tools and start practicing to do the scraping myself .

handle with carbide blade cost $100
SANDVIK COROMANT 620-30 CLAMP-ON SCRAPER Plus 10 Free 620-2530 carbide insert
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SANDVIK-COR...683?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fbe1ef8b

dykem high spot $$??

Diamond Wheel Grinder    I think around $200

reference ( perfect flat metal 42" to fit it on my lathe bed/ ways/ Vees!

$$$$


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## lugnard

Looks to me like the chuck should fit as well as the thread protector. They should be 1 1/2-8 threads and the back plate is marked as such. There must be another issue as in dirt or a slightly buggered up start of the threads. Give them a good look over to see what the problem is. Now my take on the condition of your bed ways... I would get the lathe up and running first before worrying about scraping and such. You need to do some turning and check the runout. It might be o.k. for your needs. Even tho the lathe is worn it most likely can still do accurate work. Also the price of the reconditioning would get you a different lathe that might be more useable. But again you don't know how bad your's is till you do some turning.

All the stuff you have bought will work with this or another lathe so that is good. And I think you did o.k. on the purchase. The 4 jaw and mill attch. and the collets are expensive items. I paid 100.00 for the collet closer and thread protector alone from toolsforcheap. Still needed the collets.

Harry


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## Dragon

Thank you Harry  for your great input!

this is what my other machinist's friends recommend me to do.. get the lathe back together, get an AC motor with VFD and start cutting some metals! 

I think (yes) I may need to check my check backplate   threads again, they should fit just fine, but don't know what is the problem. looks like they don't fit each others!  but when I put my old 3 jaws chuck that comes with the lathe, it will go in nice and smooth!   and that it what making me confusing!!

I spent $80.00 today for almost new great shape spindle!  this is include shipping,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291410758313?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

  as you see my spindle been insulted  from the front and the back. 
it's still working but it's look crap and my cause accuracy problems  !    

NOW the question is  that I need to re surfacing or -smooth- the area where is the spindle  fit in. my old spindle have a lines in the front area and the back area, so I don't want to insert my new spindle before I sand /polish to  get rid of the lines in the hole, otherwise will end up making new lines on my new spindle.

here is a pic of my spindle showing the lines and the opining area in the headstock base.

I'm thinking to roll a piece of sand paper around my old spindle and fit it in inside the hole  then start spinning by my hand  that spindle so  the sand paper can sand the hole.
but I don't know what kind of sand paper I have to use! and what number to start with?

thank you again for your inputs.
Ozy


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## lugnard

Ozy: I hate to even say this to you but that is one messed up headstock! At first I was glad to see you got a different spindle as your original one, the end was not looking good and now I can see the threads are your problem...But the bearings on the head stock are abused to say the least. You don't want to use sand paper of any kind (emery cloth etc.) it will embed grit in the bearing area. A scotch brite or corrocus cloth which I don't even know what that is but that's what I have read to use.   I have seen where  people have line bored the headstock and added bronze bearings but again the price to do this would get you a better used lathe. Try a google search on spindle bearing repair south bend lathe...headstock bearing repair south bend and see what you get.

I see a couple options here...Try and dress the threads on your original spindle with a thread file. Not sure if you can find one for 8 tpi so maybe a small tri-angle or 3 corner file as I call them and carefully clean them up till the other back plate spins on. When you get the new one you will see the difference/problem. Then use it in the lathe and save the new one for future use...or use the new one, since it wasn't too expensive, in the as best you can clean up bearings. At least the threads will be nice!!

The spindle runs on a thin film of oil so even tho the bearings and spindle have grooves they still function o.k.   It looks in your case as if somebody got carried away with  hammer installing the spindle. It's those chipped out edges...never seen that before.

Good luck,
Harry


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## Dragon

I know! I know Man  I know I paid to much for that crap! 
sounds like better to get a brand new Southbend 1001 they are for $2000 
at least stopping  my headaches..

the headstock is sounds like a difficult to fix, same like my Bed! now I have no countershaft, bad Bed, bad headstock, broken compound dial.  so many issues here! and no motor..

I found this lathe today on ebay, I asked the guy if it's in good condition and he confirmed to me it's great.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281636957594

since I got the gearbox  then I can convert his lathe to  model A! 

Just don't wont to fail  again man!  I feel so disappointed

I think Arizona is the wrong state for my hobby needs!
thank you


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## lugnard

I feel your pain!!! That is a nice lookin' lathe there but how ya going to get it home?  Here is a 10k in mpls. MN just a 100 miles north of me.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/tls/4947335833.html

They don't last long here on craigs list but I could snag it for you.. then it's road trip time!!!!
 Was pondering on your bearings while at work today..better than thinking about work! You might try a hone of sorts..brake cylinder or small engine piston hone and carefully work that in the bearing bore. Trouble is it will enlarge it some but with re shimming you might get it better than it is.
Harry


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## Dragon

Thank you sir, that's very kind of you, I appreciate it.
I contacted the guy who listed this lathe on ebay, he located leetwood, Pennsylvania

so I suggest to contact https://www.cratersandfreighters.com  so they can deliver it to me. he promised me to send me some close pics to the bed and the head stock.

otherwise will keep my eyes on ebay, and replace the headstock bearings base with new one, and see if I can find better bed! and of course countershaft. 

your right about how to make the hole little bigger to fit the bushings with accurate  bore  cut.
it will take time!

do you have any idea about these 1001 new southbend lathes, I heard both negative and positive, don't know how accurate they are!


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## itsme_Bernie

Fastenal locations ship cheaper than anyone.  If they can drop at a fastenal, and you can pick up at a Fastenal, it is REALLY cheap to ship a pallet.

Google your area for a location

Bernie


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## lugnard

I have not heard of these lathes. Must be from Grizzly tho. I would still prefer an old south bend over the new ones. But I have looked at the new 10k. It seems nice but not cheap!

Good luck on that ebay lathe.  Looks like a real cream puff. There is a new listing for just that...cream puff SB for about $ 8500!!!


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## Dragon

oh, that will be a good idea! 

I already found one in my area, they are close right now, I will give them a call first thing in the morning.

I will post the pics of the lathe first he send it to me, hope to be a good lathe

thank you for sending me this shipping company sir.

Ozy


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## Dragon

I found the counter shaft that I am missing, 

but this one is so weird in shape!! 
is it for my lathe 9 A or B or even C???  it's not like the other normal south bend 9 counter shaft!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-...226?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa623e062


can you please tell me what brand is this? and its little high in price?  I think they go around $130 plus shipping but this guy is sounds little high!


I am still reading about the new SB 1001 they have them on sale now!!  with only $100 shipping!  sounds like a good deal! 
Thank you


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## compsurge

For the money you'd drop into your acquisition, I'd say to highly consider the SB1001. All of your parts can be resold and you can part out your current lathe and likely break even at the least.


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## Dragon

so then why people prefer the old south bend than the new one? is there a reason behind that? 

I just opened a new post under ( old south bend 9" Vs new south bend 1001)  

is there accuracy or durability or there maybe there is no support or parts for the new one?
I don't know if the new SB1001 comes with 50% iron + 50% steel bed like the old once have!

many question and couldn't find so many info!   the other New south bend  10K is looks so good but there is no one buying it! 

Thank you


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## compsurge

The price for the new 10k probably shies the hobbyist toward a Grizzly G0702. Make no mistake, the new South Bends are made in China or Taiwan, but they are built to very tight tolerance specifications in the spirit of the originals. They have a collet lathe that looks like a Hardinge relative that costs $33k, but the spindle has 0.00125mm (0.000050 inch) of spindle runout.

Hobbyists will buy the old iron because it is affordable, parts are plentiful, and a machine can be attained for an affordable cost. Yours is somewhat of an example of that. I would just caution against spending too much money on a machine to bring it up to spec if a new one can be had at a lower cost (in your case this is likely). Once you move up to a 10" lathe, the cost to buy a new versus rework the old one would likely lean toward the old lathe.

I also think hobbyists will lean toward the old lathes because they may have grown up using the machines in shop class or their parents had one at some point. Familiarity is always a good thing when using a machine tool.


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## Dragon

Tim, 
you are right about (most people they lean toward the old lathes just because they been in their families for a decades !
and I start thinking about  not spending to mush money on these old lathe, just because I will never making it Hardinge!! 

so back to my search I found this headstock the guy out there offered me a good price for it.!!
but it's looks like  different from what I have!! 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-bend-...4788&clkid=5298313174275831012&_qi=RTM2067267

is that will be a good replacement or not?

the bearings got some splits inside and mine is smooth!!

if its the same then why they make two different bearings!! witch one is the newer? or the better?

thank you all and thanks this great place for having a pro's people here.
Ozy


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## compsurge

My knowledge of these lathes is not very large. There is a US Army manual for the 9". Have you found it yet?

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3677


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## lugnard

Ozy: How is the lathe coming along? Found some good pics and info about your segmented bearings. It's a 10L but I think you'll at least get some good reading out of it...I did. Do a google search for   Early 10L rebuild-teardown and inspection. 

Harry


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## Dragon

Thank you Tim, thank you Harry

I was just busy with my first baby boy!!   spent 3 days going back and forth to the hospital, today in few hours he will come to his home!!

I ordered this part http://www.ebay.com/itm/121579628997     (drum switch) also this part  http://www.ebay.com/itm/131480634788?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT  headstock 

also ordered this part http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUTH-BEND-...VTKZmsdumO9Fl6w80TOG4%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

countershaft

I got both countershaft and the switch today they looks so good!

now I still looking to replace my compound with a better looking one along with it's handle..

I found another headstocks for sale on ebay, but I just bought the one I have his pic here, but it's not the same like my headstock, it has  lines (cuts ) and mine is flat!! don't know if it will work?

now I think if everything is good, what left is clean up the new parts, buy the rebuild kit and start painting     till now I spent around $950  I am planning to be under $1500 


thank you for all of your inputs and opinions!
Ozy


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## Dragon

oh forgot this pic for this important part


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## compsurge

Congrats!


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## Ulma Doctor

Dragon said:


> oh forgot this pic for this important part



Congratulations, Daddy!!!


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## Dragon

thank you to all of your guys..


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## Kernbigo

I have scraped in plain bearing spindle so yours is not impossible to do. The first thing to do is take the spindle to your local auto engine rebuild shop and have the spindle shaft o.d. honed, to get it straight and concentric. Now you have a master to use to spoon scrape the plain bearings to. Good luck


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## Dragon

Kernbigo, thank you for your input! 
yes, I am planning to take my new spindle to the auto rebuild shop to hone it.

but I replaced my old flat headstock with the high speed version showing in this pic! still waiting to get it maybe today or tomorrow by mail!

thank you


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## Dragon

guys, any idea for any cheap and good motor to use with my high speed setup? belts ??? I am about to start the rebuild! 

I am planning to buy the 2 step southbend pulley, but it's looks like little expensive for such a pulley!  $50+

thank you


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## compsurge

Get a good brand motor - you will pay more, but it will likely last your lifetime. I am not sure of the original motor spec. It is likely a 1725 rpm motor and 3/4 or 1 hp (this is guess!!!).


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## Kernbigo

You don't need a 2 step pulley go with a thread mill motor set up, now you have variable speed


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## compsurge

Great idea!


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## Kernbigo

I have done 2 band saws 2 lathe, all work great,you can use a different speed contoler or the one out of the thread , mill here is the wireing dia. for a mc60 contoler


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## Dragon

OK, please easy with me, I think I got lost here, the information start getting it bigger than my small brain!
please give me the recommended name of the motor, and the commanded name speed controller, belts etc...

I some vfds for $200 is there cheaper to get?

thank you!


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## compsurge

@Kernbigo was suggesting using a DC treadmill motor and a variable speed controller (same idea as the model trains). This motor would drive your counter shaft and then a belt would be run from the counter shaft pulleys to the headstock pulleys. The speed controller would allow you to run lower speed (or higher) without switching the belt position.

You can get a 1.5HP treadmill motor for about $50-100 on eBay, but some of them have bent shafts. It might be best to go to some place like automationdirect.com and get a good setup.


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## Kernbigo

all the thread mills i got were on the curb (free)


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## Dragon

Tim,
this is a good website, they got good stuff, but it's little bit high in prices, they run between $200 + 

I am still thinking to replace my compound and the saddle base (the one goes on the top of the saddle..

I found this part, contacted the seller, but he said his price is firm! 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-So...e-/371305620201?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

and this is the saddle base 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUTH-BEND-9-LATHE-COMPOUND-BASE-/141626608461?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123


I know I may have to scrape everything to make sure everything is 100% perfect!
so I am also looking to get scraping tool 17" carbide blade and high spot blue color and of course I need some help on finding some metal  references for my bed, saddle and the compound.  

so please if you have any information I will be appreciate it 

thank you


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## Dragon

I just can't find some kind of metal reference to use it on scraping the bed and the ways!


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## Dragon

OH forgot that the bed and the ways can't be scraped by hand, it need more tools and experiences than I have..

also there is no one in my state can do it cheaper than $700 so I think I will have to live with it till I find another good bed or so!


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## compsurge

@Ulma Doctor and some others know a thing or two about scraping. Hopefully they can point you in the right direction.


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## Dragon

Hi again..
here is my bed I tried to do my best to get the camera in touch with the bed and the dial indicator so I can  show your guys my bed! there is something weird there!!
the area  in front of the chuck is high than the both sides!!! weird right?

here is videos showing each V test along with the bed, I don't know if I am doing it right or I have to re-attache the complete carriage/ saddle in order to get the reading more accurate?


























https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWRDT2vRuU8


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## Dragon

I also found this tool, it may help level the bed and clean it good
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/05139407


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## compsurge

Don't try leveling your bed with a stone. It needs to be ground. Your bed looks pretty good. Are you measuring where the headstock is mounted?


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## Dragon

yes I am measuring from left to right  all the way  to the headstock location, as you see the saddle quite big so I try to go off road where is the headstock located. 
but why the bed is high from the location if front of to the headstock?


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## Dragon

guys, forgot to add my new headstock's Pic, 
after I cleaned today, I run my finger nail across the bearing inside the bore, I couldn't feel any stop, but there is a kind of lines or like yellowish color..! don't know what is that! anybody can tell if that is a worn or it's what!


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## gramps1951

Kernbigo said:


> You don't need a 2 step pulley go with a thread mill motor set up, now you have variable speed


 What brand and model is the controller in the photo and what HP is the treadmill motor?


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## 4GSR

Dragon said:


> Hi again..
> here is my bed I tried to do my best to get the camera in touch with the bed and the dial indicator so I can  show your guys my bed! there is something weird there!!
> the area  in front of the chuck is high than the both sides!!! weird right?
> 
> here is videos showing each V test along with the bed, I don't know if I am doing it right or I have to re-attache the complete carriage/ saddle in order to get the reading more accurate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWRDT2vRuU8



Your first video is the only one that is giving you a decent reading of wear on the saddle ways.  NOT the tailstock.

All the rest of your video's are not telling anything.  You have your indicator trying to measure on the same ways the saddle is riding on.  And of course, it will read "0"

Take your tailstock base and place it on the bed and mount your indicator on it and check the saddle ways.  You should get a good reading of the wear on the ways that the saddle rides on.
Next, place the dial indicator point on the machine area of the bed that is not used as a bearing way for either the tailstock base or the saddle ways.  This should give you an idea of how much wear you have on the tailstock ways.


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