# Toolmaker's vise vs. milling vise



## Diecutter (Jan 12, 2019)

I have not used either of these two types and am wondering whether the toolmaker's vise exerts enough force to hold work for anything but very light milling. The anglelocks exert tons of force from what I read; could one allen bolt hope to compete with this?  I'm considering vises, and am looking for something low profile.


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## higgite (Jan 12, 2019)

You will probably get more meaningful answers if you tell us what machine you have. As is, we don't know if your machine is capable of anything more than light milling. For instance, I use a screwless vise on my LMS 5500 with no issues, but I have no idea how it would stand up to the stresses of heavy cuts on a big machine.

Tom


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## mikey (Jan 12, 2019)

There are several kinds of vises that are labelled "toolmaker's vise". There are screwless vises and vises that tighten a screw via a handle on the end; some call these grinding vises. Milling vises look like a Kurt-type vise. 

Depending on the size, some vises will be taller than others. Milling vises may be a little taller, although some of the larger screwless vises are pretty tall themselves. 

The key differences between the two types, at least in my experience, is that the screwless vises are a bit more rigid and usually more accurate. They certainly clamp more than tightly enough for any work I've ever done. The milling type vises are much faster to use and are more than accurate enough for most of us. They also have higher clamping potential if you are doing heavy cuts. 

I have both types for both of my mills. I mostly use the milling type vise, maybe 95% of the time. When I need to do something with what passes for greater precision in my shop, I switch to the screwless vise.


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## Bob Korves (Jan 12, 2019)

The main difference in the screwless grinding vices is that they can be clamped down on any surface of the vice with an accurately ground flat surface there.  That is nearly indispensable on a grinding vice, and also useful on a milling vice for some operations.  For heavy duty work holding, the Kurt style vises work better.


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## Diecutter (Jan 12, 2019)

higgite said:


> You will probably get more meaningful answers if you tell us what machine you have. As is, we don't know if your machine is capable of anything more than light milling. For instance, I use a screwless vise on my LMS 5500 with no issues, but I have no idea how it would stand up to the stresses of heavy cuts on a big machine.
> 
> Tom


The mill is my diy Gorton panto to knee mill conversion with ER-20 spindle.  Just bought a 1 hp tefc Dayton motor and it has a lowest spindle speed of 145 rpm if that helps visualize it.


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## Diecutter (Jan 12, 2019)

Thanks all. That settles it.  I'll go with 89% utility and great clamping force, and get the screwless later only if it becomes a must have.


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## Bob Korves (Jan 12, 2019)

I got my 3" Chinese grinding vise a couple years ago from HFS (Hardware Factory Store.)  It came the next day, $42 total, no freight charges.  It had (and still has) a beautiful finish with no visible flaws at all.  I tested it on my surface plate with a maximum divergence from square and parallel of .0002" in a couple places, .0001 over 95+ percent of it.  I was impressed.  More recently I got a 1" grinding vise from the same source for grinding smaller pieces and held in the larger vise at various angles.  It came just as quickly and the tolerances were just as tight and the finish just as good.  Again, though, not probably the best for most milling jobs.


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## Duke (Jan 13, 2019)

I am also using a Chinese grinding / toolmakers vise. Like Bob mentioned - lovely finish and accuracy.




For my use on the mini mill it works perfectly.

I mounted it aligned with the x axis which makes it easy to see if the pin is properly engaged. This way I can also see exactly how close my endmill / drill is to the jaws.

Optimising clamping force: make sure the bolt is at 45 degrees. As the bolt gets more vertical, clamping force is reduced.

For extra insurance I usually add a piece of paper between the part and the movable jaw.

When milling I also try to have the endmill's force directed perpendicular to one of the jaws.


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## Duke (Jan 14, 2019)

By the way..... I now need a 1" grinding vise as well.


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## ThinWoodsman (Jan 14, 2019)

I have the 2" and a couple of 1". I've been clamping the 2" using hold-downs as in Duke's picture, but am finally making clamps (using the LMS "screwless vise clamps" drawing for reference) to mount it Ywards so I can have more room on the table. Note: "making" means "cut the stock and the bandsaw and scribed the layout"; fabrication is stalled after I completely failed to face the base on the mini-lathe, which got me back onto that long-procrastinated carriage lock project. But that, as they say, is a story for another day.


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## C-Bag (Jan 15, 2019)

I realized I didn't need a swivel vise so I got a 4" what is called a CNC vise or grinding vise that is like a toolmakers vise but uses a screw. This has proved to be very handy because it can be laid on its side when your standard Kurt vise can't. I needed to cut some slots in several pieces of 6" aluminum structural angle and laid the vise on its side and clamped the angle with a added C-clamp providing a ridged setup that was about as low as I could go as the end of the angle was on the table.

Because of my mill being a round column mill drill and my 7" shaper I've become very conscious of height taken up by vises. I looked into making or buying a two piece vise but then bumbled on to these clamps made by Te Co and J&S and got an assortment lot off eBay for a fraction of new. They have proved to be really the ticket as they can be mounted in all kinds of low clearance way. I've made several low backstops for them. Can't have too many clamps or vises


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