# Comfortable Working Height



## RebelJD (May 13, 2021)

Hello, I'm new to forum and soon to be an owner of a PM-932M.   According to the specs the working height of the table with the stand will be about 31".   This seems a little low to me but would like the opinion of owners with some experience.  I did order the Leveling pads but do these add any height?  Thanks in advance for your help.

Jim


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## Hozzie (May 13, 2021)

Yes, it will need to be taller.  Look at this thread (post 8) for what I did.








						PM30 or PM-932?
					

Trying to gauge folks opinions of these two mills. Just a hobbyist...never have had a mill before. Don't intend to be doing production. Eventually would like to CNC whatever one I do get, but realistically with the purchase of one of these that will be 1-2 years down the road. Would like to use...




					www.hobby-machinist.com


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## benmychree (May 13, 2021)

In days past, and in Asia, folks were and are shorter, today it makes for much more comfortable working to raise machines to a height that makes for comfort, that is not having to bend over to operate a machine, the use of "duck boards" or floor pads adds to the need.


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## KevinM (May 13, 2021)

My PM stand for my 727 is 27" tall.  I would like it to be 8-9" taller. I'm 6"1".


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## Aukai (May 13, 2021)

The top of my G0755 table is 37", I have been just dealing with it at that height. I have leveling castors under the stand, and I'm 6'2"


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## darkzero (May 14, 2021)

Elbow height is a good starting point for the spindle of a lathe. I set my lathe's spindle centerline at elbow height & it's been comfortable for me. Not too high where I might have trouble looking down on the work piece & not too low where I find myself breaking my back from bending over so much if working for long periods of time. Some people like the carriage hand controls to be elbow height but that's too high for me.

I don't have a knee mill, I set my PM45 (predecessor to the PM932) table height at elbow height also, well it's slightly below so the vise is right about elbow height. It's been comfortable for me. Had to make a riser in order to do that though.

FWIW my mill table height is at 41" off the ground & I'm 5'7". When I built the mobile stand for my belt sander the table height magically ended up at 41" also & that worked out to be the perfect height for me too. I start off with the elbow height rule most of time for working height on things & then adjust from there if needed.


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## jwmay (May 14, 2021)

I'm 5' 10" and I make all my working surfaces 39" high.  That works out for me.  Anything lower and my entire spine complains.


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## jwmelvin (May 14, 2021)

So, for a knee mill, what goes at elbow height?


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## RebelJD (May 14, 2021)

Thanks everyone, it confirms my thinking.  I tend to go with the elbow rule too.  I'm 5-10 and my workbench is 41" which I've always found to a comfortable height.  My bandsaw and other tools are about that height also.   I've got some heavy square tubing that will work well for building a riser.  According to Precision Mathews my mill is delayed a bit so I have some time to fabricate it.  Thanks again, I'm looking forward to seeking advice from the forum from time to time.
Jim


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## Winegrower (May 14, 2021)

At 6’ 3”, I could use an extra foot of height for the Takisawa.  It’s already raised 4”, as is the Bridgeport...the mill is pretty acceptable at that height.


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## Tipton1965 (May 14, 2021)

I used the elbow height rule or there abouts with my PM-833TV.  Being 6' 4" tall I needed extra height on my table.  I did something a little more permanent by pouring a concrete base that the cabinet bolts to. Comes complete with spider crawling up the side!


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## Christianstark (May 14, 2021)

Sharp looking shop!



Tipton1965 said:


> I used the elbow height rule or there abouts with my PM-833TV.  Being 6' 4" tall I needed extra height on my table.  I did something a little more permanent by pouring a concrete base that the cabinet bolts to. Comes complete with spider crawling up the side!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## rabler (May 14, 2021)

jwmelvin said:


> So, for a knee mill, what goes at elbow height?


I tend to go with the resting my hands on each of the controls while looking at the work area, with table at mid height.  If I can stand there for a couple of minutes with my hands resting on the control wheels, then the height is reasonable.


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## Aukai (May 14, 2021)

My hair stood up.....


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## GL (May 14, 2021)

I agree, elbow height works for lathes.  I added. 3” risers to my 1340GT.  I hear 0 rpm with high feed rates will break a chip on spiders.  Nice job with the concrete.


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## kb58 (May 15, 2021)

The spindle center on my Takisawa is spaced 41" off the floor, as are the vice jaws on my PM935 knee mill. I'm 6' and they're just right.


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## sdelivery (May 15, 2021)

OSHA has found between 32-34 inches to be the optimum bench height. 
Having set up more than a few machines, benches and burr benches I always shot for 40-42 inches.
Working on a project about 2 months ago on an improvised work bench,  I felt like the bench was at the PERFECT height,  I measured the height and it was 34 inches.
This is when I referenced the OSHA site for work bench height.
There is a lot of great information there and everyone on this site should reference their site.


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## Janderso (May 15, 2021)

Tipton1965 said:


> I used the elbow height rule or there abouts with my PM-833TV.  Being 6' 4" tall I needed extra height on my table.  I did something a little more permanent by pouring a concrete base that the cabinet bolts to. Comes complete with spider crawling up the side!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Something wrong with this picture.........
Chips!, oil drops, grime, peeling faded paint.
Seriously though, that is a well designed deck.


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## Firstram (May 15, 2021)

sdelivery said:


> OSHA has found between 32-34 inches to be the optimum bench height.
> Having set up more than a few machines, benches and burr benches I always shot for 40-42 inches.
> Working on a project about 2 months ago on an improvised work bench,  I felt like the bench was at the PERFECT height,  I measured the height and it was 34 inches.
> This is when I referenced the OSHA site for work bench height.
> There is a lot of great information there and everyone on this site should reference their site.


I'm in the 34" work bench club myself, both of my welding tables are just under 33". Build something on the table and before you know it you're up to 48".


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## Dabbler (May 18, 2021)

I'm 5'10 (perhaps minus a bit)  and I had to raise my PM935VS 11" to let me use the controls without stooping.  If I stoop, even a bit, I'm done in about 10 minutes.


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## JimBuchanan (May 22, 2021)

The PM-935 weighs about 1500 pounds, right? How did you raise it 11"? That's raising the center of gravity 11". Being a knee mill, maybe raising it that much may not be such a big deal because the base is so heavy.

But that's what I am dealing with on a PM 932 class bench mill. Having a Bolton ZX-45, I'm a Precision Matthews wanta be. 

Hello everyone, post #1. Besides not having a base for my mill, I am picky about working height being 5' 11" and shrinking a bit by the year. My only solution is to make a base. My concerns are raising a fully loaded 900 pound mill to give a hopefully 40"ish table height. I've thought a lot about using concrete as a cost effective base, but not able to move the mill is an issue and the situation of earthquakes here in California. I really like the concrete pad solution up thread and I suppose it could be surfaced to move laterally if one desired, and when bolted to an existing base would lower the center of gravity.

Common wisdom dictates a base that slides laterally during an earthquake, as in the high rise building construction that has a shock system that moves horizontally. A high center of gravity system such as a heavy tall milling machine is not something you want to bolt to a concrete slap, at least here in California.

So, my in progress solution is a mill base made with 3" square, 1/8" wall tubing that will be 29+" high. The mill base to mill table height is almost 10", giving a height from floor of about 39". A 5" vise would add 3" to that.

Back on the concrete subject, it and epoxy resin is currently being used for structural vibrational stability of CNC builds. My idea is to fill the 3" square tubing with concrete to add mass and maybe add epoxy resin to the mill base and lower Z axis part.

Anyway, I have to finish the base in order to build the mill which is torn down. Maybe I can post another or 2 to earn the right to post photos of my progress. (In the right section)


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## Dabbler (May 23, 2021)

"How did you raise it 11"?"

I made it out of 4" X 8" X .166 tubing, and the stance is wider by almost 4" per side.  It is behind a mound of stuff in my over crowded garage, and my working mill is in front of it.  I need to put a 27" pallet jack under it from the front. 

I'll post a picture of the base when it is uncovered.


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## Larry$ (May 23, 2021)

Seems like bench ht. should be variable based on the size of work. If working on a fixed ht. machine, elbow ht. seems good for me. 41" in my case. 
In my commercial woodworking shop all four assembly benches are hydraulic tables, 4 x 10' . Strangely, employees resisted the idea when originally proposed. Now they wouldn't go back to fixed ht.  Change is hard!


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## RebelJD (May 23, 2021)

I like the idea of making the base wide enough to put a pallet jack under it from the front, in the event you wanted to move it.  Of course the levelers (feet) would also have to be tall enough to allow the pallet jack under it.  And the added width should make it a little more stable.  I have a pallet jack in a storage facility, I'll have to take some measurements and see I can come up with a design that makes sense.


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## Hozzie (May 23, 2021)

/\ Relook at post 2 in this thread and follow the link to post 8.  It allows for exactly what you are talking about.  Dimensions and all.  A standard pallet jack is 27" wide.


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## Larry$ (May 23, 2021)

Pallet jacks are very handy. You can get them new, in a variety of widths and lengths, at reasonable prices.


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## Dabbler (May 23, 2021)

I have 2 pallet jacks in my little shop.  a 27" and a 21"  It makes moving things a lot easier!


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## Larry$ (May 23, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> I have 2 pallet jacks in my little shop.  a 27" and a 21"  It makes moving things a lot easier!


The 21" would be nice for a lot of things in a small shop.


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## JimBuchanan (Jan 1, 2023)

To continue where I left off over a year and a half ago, here is my square column bench mill with a table height of almost 40", with the head all the way up. The vertical struts of the base are filled with concrete and the base and column is filled with epoxy resin, but that is another story.

At 5' 11" or so, this working height is a huge plus over a lesser solution. I could easily get 41" out of the leveling feet, but here is my gripe. On short work pieces, I'm sitting on a shop stool anyway, with the limited visibility caused by a large wide head, and especially with collet use. 

Up thread, someone asked about a knee mill working height and no one commented. Well, as I rebuild a Rockwell 21-100 vertical knee mill, I get it now. The working height stays the same on all size word pieces because the head stays the same and the knee moves with the size of the word piece. And the added benefit is the stability is easily retained due to the cast iron base and column giving a lower center of gravity than a bench mill on a bench. The spindle of the Rockwell is at about 52" with my current base/caster arrangement, a foot higher than the bench mill.

Just something to think about.


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## ChazzC (Jan 1, 2023)

The bed of mt Mini-Mill is at about 42-1/2", which places the top of the vise jaws at 45" and the hand wheels a little below elbow height. I'm just under 6' and this is comfortable for me. Didn't plan this, it just worked out when I added a riser to get Y-Axis hand wheel clearance above my base (heavy-duty, welded Art Steel legal size file cabinet):





 The 2x4 base allowed for easier leveling.


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## Winegrower (Jan 1, 2023)

I added a 4” riser to the Bridgeport and as an unanticipated consequence the working height rose the same amount.   This is really desirable for me at 6’3” as now frequently the work is about chest high. In addition to the riser the mill is up on 4x4 posts.  It’s just right.


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## MERLIncMan (Jan 1, 2023)

RebelJD said:


> Hello, I'm new to forum and soon to be an owner of a PM-932M.   According to the specs the working height of the table with the stand will be about 31".   This seems a little low to me but would like the opinion of owners with some experience.  I did order the Leveling pads but do these add any height?  Thanks in advance for your help.
> 
> Jim









Look to the feets my friend!

I'm 6'1", and while there may be concerns about using wood, these lifts were an absolute necessity. Even now, my machines are a bit low for my taste.

Concrete footers with J bolts would have been better - but hey! Whatever man!


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## Weldingrod1 (Jan 1, 2023)

I have both my Rockwell mill and Hardinge blocked up signifcantly; 6" or so!
At 6'4" I need it! I'm sorta tempted to move my mill up high 

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## T Bredehoft (Jan 1, 2023)

I dunno if I've chimed in on this before or not. 

I used to be 5'11, but maturity  removed .062 from every one of the joints in my spinal column and I'm now 5 feet 9 inches tall.

My PM25's table is 44 inches off the floor, the 10-30 lathe spindle is 49 inches up. I'm really pleased with these, though the lathe could be a couple inches lower (easier to see the work, not easier to run.)


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## RebelJD (Jan 8, 2023)

Looks like this thread came back to life.  Since I started it, I thought I should probably show what I ended up with.   This height works well for me, but I tend to like things a little higher than a lot of guys.


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## great white (Jan 8, 2023)

I'm roughly 5 10 and my lathe is just shy of mid chest-ish. maybe around the lowest "non-floating rib" area. I find it discourages me from resting my arms on the machine (IE; safety) and when I need to get a good close look at the work I'm not actually leaning over the machine.

My bench mill is on it's stock sheet metal cabinet and I find it much too low for me in a standing position. I usually end up sitting on a roll-around stool when using the mill to get to a comfortable work height. I actually don't mind being able to sit on the roll-around stool, much easier on the back and places the work/tooling interface at roughly the same position for me as the lathe on it's cabinet. My face is not inline with the work interface but I'm close enough that I can get a good look at the work.

for me, what height you need is a personal thing. As long as it's effective and safe, it's right.


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## GL (Thursday at 1:57 AM)

RebelJD, that’s almost exactly what I did to raise my 1340GT.   Similar rectangular tube bolted to the bottom of the base, angled ends outbound of the machine for accessibility.  I welded 4”x4”x3/4” plates to the bottom, threaded 1/2-20 for adjuster bolts sitting on the original cast base plates sent with the lathe (trued up the bottom of the hole and bottom side to be parallel) in place of the machine mounts you used.   Some reported issues with machine mounts and lathes which was why I stayed with the solid foot plates.  Raises machine, widens the footprint, and easy access for adjustment.


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