# Parker Majestic #2 surface grinder



## DavidR8 (Nov 27, 2020)

I had the opportunity to inspect the Parker Majestic today.
It's dirty but seems very sound. The controls are butter smooth. I could not power it up unfortunately so I'm taking a bit of a leap of faith.
I'm relieved that its 220/440v 3-phase so I can power it with a VFD off my 220v 1-phase service.
Edit - Parker Majestic tells me according to the serial number this machine was made in 1963. Which makes it only a few years older than my Unisaw.


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## NCjeeper (Nov 27, 2020)

Lift the table up and check the ways.


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## Lo-Fi (Nov 27, 2020)

Love it, looking forward to seeing your progress getting to grips with it.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 27, 2020)

I did lift either end to take a peek. It was 100 times cleaner underneath. The ways are covered with teflon (Rulon?) which was in excellent condition.


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## aliva (Nov 27, 2020)

I wish I had room for a grinder like that


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## DavidR8 (Nov 27, 2020)

aliva said:


> I wish I had room for a grinder like that


It's certainly larger than ideal for my space but the price was right. It's about 4' square


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## Janderso (Nov 27, 2020)

David,
Surface grinders can be very useful. 
My problem is time. I have projects that require time that would include my SG.
I did reduce a shim for one of the guys at work by .0015". The guys were pretty impressed I could do it.
You can dial in tenths.
Oh, by the way, you do suck.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 27, 2020)

Janderso said:


> David,
> Surface grinders can be very useful.
> My problem is time. I have projects that require time that would include my SG.
> I did reduce a shim for one of the guys at work by .0015". The guys were pretty impressed I could do it.
> ...


Thanks Jeff, I am excited about embarking on another new learning path.
I think this is new learning path number 473 in the last year or so


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## NC Rick (Nov 27, 2020)

I'm not saying a thing.  I am too envious.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 27, 2020)

NC Rick said:


> I'm not saying a thing.  I am too envious.


I feel incredibly lucky Rick... and the seller is such a nice fellow... he made it a habit to hire only inexperienced folks and teach them. That spoke to me.


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## akjeff (Nov 27, 2020)

NC Rick said:


> I'm not saying a thing.  I am too envious.


Jealous here as well........in the nicest way possible! Whats the capacity of that grinder?


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## DavidR8 (Nov 27, 2020)

@akjeff it's a 6x18. Definitely large for a homeshop.
But smaller than the 8x24 Gallmeyer & Livingston 8x24" that I also have (for sale  )


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## akjeff (Nov 27, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> @akjeff it's a 6x18. Definitely large for a homeshop.
> But smaller than the 8x24 Gallmeyer & Livingston 8x24" that I also have (for sale  )


Oh man don't tell me that! If it weren't for this covid crap, I'd be pondering a road trip to B.C. I'd love a 8x24! Though a 6x18 would be about perfect. That looks like a really nice machine.....good find!


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## Dabbler (Nov 27, 2020)

very nice!


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## middle.road (Nov 27, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I had the opportunity to inspect the Parker Majestic today.
> It's dirty but seems very sound. The controls are butter smooth. I could not power it up unfortunately so I'm taking a bit of a leap of faith.
> I'm relieved that its 220/440v 3-phase so I can power it with a VFD off my 220v 1-phase service.
> Edit - Parker Majestic tells me according to the serial number this machine was made in 1963. Which makes it only a few years younger than my Unisaw.
> ...


You're too young to be using such a experienced machine of that vintage.
You'll need to ship it to Tennessee for gentler utilization, and a milder climate, it needs to enjoy it's retirement years.   

Sweet bloody score!


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## DavidR8 (Nov 27, 2020)

middle.road said:


> You're too young to be using such a experienced machine of that vintage.
> You'll need to ship it to Tennessee for gentler utilization, and a milder climate, it needs to enjoy it's retirement years.
> 
> Sweet bloody score!



Thanks mate! I have to concur. I am far too young  and definitely not sufficiently experienced :O
If you cover shipping I’ll send the G&L to you 


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## DavidR8 (Nov 27, 2020)

akjeff said:


> Oh man don't tell me that! If it weren't for this covid crap, I'd be pondering a road trip to B.C. I'd love a 8x24! Though a 6x18 would be about perfect. That looks like a really nice machine.....good find!


You know you waaaaant it!


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## Janderso (Nov 27, 2020)

Whew, 8x24 is a beast.
You’d almost have to have a need for it.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 27, 2020)

Janderso said:


> Whew, 8x24 is a beast.
> You’d almost have to have a need for it.



It is a beast for sure. I think the two doors on the back weigh about as much as my lathe!


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## Dabbler (Nov 28, 2020)

Janderso said:


> You’d almost have to have a need for it.




I can think of several uses for it, but no room in my shop for one!


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## sdelivery (Nov 28, 2020)

Wow, great score! What is your serial number? I want to compare it to mine.
I got mine from an Aircraft parts manufacture I worked for. At one time we had 10!
The full cast iron base/ housing Parker Majestics were the Cadilacs of the small surface grinders.
I am going to sell mine soon as I only have room for one and I have a DoAll Automatic that I want to keep and it takes up even more space.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 28, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> Wow, great score! What is your serial number? I want to compare it to mine.
> I got mine from an Aircraft parts manufacture I worked for. At one time we had 10!
> The full cast iron base/ housing Parker Majestics were the Cadilacs of the small surface grinders.
> I am going to sell mine soon as I only have room for one and I have a DoAll Automatic that I want to keep and it takes up even more space.



Thanks I’m very happy with it. 
Serial number is 1468-63. 
Parker Majestic told me that it was made in 1963. 


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## sdelivery (Nov 28, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks I’m very happy with it.
> Serial number is 1468-63.
> Parker Majestic told me that it was made in 1963.
> 
> ...


Does your serial number contain any letters?
I have SER-2348-SCM-60, mine has power elevating screw to raise and lower the wheel. 
Does yours?


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## DavidR8 (Nov 28, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> Does your serial number contain any letters?
> I have SER-2348-SCM-60, mine has power elevating screw to raise and lower the wheel.
> Does yours?



Ack! I missed some of the numbers...





Mine is just a ‘2’ which doesn’t have the power Z axis. You must have a 2Z 


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## sdelivery (Nov 28, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Ack! I missed some of the numbers...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes a 2Z. I had forgotten


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## sdelivery (Nov 28, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> Yes a 2Z. I had forgotten


Mine is in pieces at the moment. Maintenance, primarily a through cleaning but will address any problems.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 28, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> Mine is in pieces at the moment. Maintenance, primarily a through cleaning but will address any problems.



I uploaded the service and parts manual if you need them. 


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## sdelivery (Nov 28, 2020)

Thank you, I should have the original here somewhere....lol. ok better check the downloads


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## DavidR8 (Nov 29, 2020)

My grinder came with a pair of these wheels. From what I can find they seem to be pretty versatile. 
I also have a boat load of 10” wheels. Too bad they are too big for the Parker. 






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## sdelivery (Nov 29, 2020)

Those are great wheels and should give you the results you will be happy with.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 29, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> Those are great wheels and should give you the results you will be happy with.



Thanks 
Do you use coolant with your PM?


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## sdelivery (Nov 29, 2020)

No, much of the grinding done on these machines and their competitors was done dry. Remember 1 st. The part is only heald on with the magnet and 2nd these are designed to remove small amounts of stock very precisely.
Better shops had industrial vacuums on the grinders but most shops had nothing and it lands everywhere!
Most shops kept the grinders as far away from the other machines as the grit from the wheel breaking down is very abrasive to machine ways


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## DavidR8 (Nov 29, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> No, much of the grinding done on these machines and their competitors was done dry. Remember 1 st. The part is only heald on with the magnet and 2nd these are designed to remove small amounts of stock very precisely.
> Better shops had industrial vacuums on the grinders but most shops had nothing and it lands everywhere!
> Most shops kept the grinders as far away from the other machines as the grit from the wheel breaking down is very abrasive to machine ways



Yes, I’m already devising ways to create a physical barrier around the machine as well as some sort of dust collection. 


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## sdelivery (Nov 29, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Yes, I’m already devising ways to create a physical barrier around the machine as well as some sort of dust collection.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A dust collection funnel as close to the wheel as possible with the strongest vacuum you can get is the best solution.  If you put it " inside the shower " you will be in there with it sucking in the dust too.
In the shops they would have them oriented by a wall so the dust would shoot at towards the wall instead of just into the air and if you lost a part it would be stopped by the wall.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 29, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> A dust collection funnel as close to the wheel as possible with the strongest vacuum you can get is the best solution. If you put it " inside the shower " you will be in there with it sucking in the dust too.
> In the shops they would have them oriented by a wall so the dust would shoot at towards the wall instead of just into the air and if you lost a part it would be stopped by the wall.



Ahh that’s a very good point, thank you. 
There is the dust collection chute on the end of the table but it does seem far away to do much good. Though I do not that the inside is fairly well coated with years worth of grit and grime so it much be partially effective. 


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## sdelivery (Nov 29, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Ahh that’s a very good point, thank you.
> There is the dust collection chute on the end of the table but it does seem far away to do much good. Though I do not that the inside is fairly well coated with years worth of grit and grime so it much be partially effective.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your welcome


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## Lo-Fi (Nov 29, 2020)

Anyone ever thought about a lamina flow waterfall type dust collector for surface grinders:


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## sdelivery (Nov 29, 2020)

Lo-Fi said:


> Anyone ever thought about a lamina flow waterfall type dust collector for surface grinders:


What would you do with the CONTAMINATED water?
The swarf will contain more than just wheel break down particulates,  anything that is in the material you are grinding will be in it as well


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## Lo-Fi (Nov 29, 2020)

Same as you do when when grinding with coolant. Collect, filter, recirculate to tank.  No different, really, just larger flow rate. All else being equal, a wall of fluid ought to be easy to collect. You'd probably want to use coolant rather than plain water as that's what you'll have in the machine anyway, plus you want to anti corrosion properties.


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## DavidR8 (Nov 29, 2020)

Spent part of the day organizing stuff to make way for the grinder. 
Other than power I’m ready to go. 








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## DavidR8 (Dec 4, 2020)

And the grinder has landed!


















It is equipped with a coolant pump and tank. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Not sure that I’m going to use coolant though. I can see the benefits though with reduced heat and grit flying around. 
Curious what other people do. 


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## middle.road (Dec 4, 2020)

Proper 'tool' for the job...


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## Dabbler (Dec 4, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Not sure that I’m going to use coolant though



-- Except for the odd job where there is very little to take off, or the tolerances are great, coolant is a good idea.  It happens to be part of the schtick.  (heat deferentially expands the metal resulting in a loss of accuracy and poorer surface finish)  

If you stick to taking a tenth or 2 at a time, with very little stepover, it can be done, but you will wear your wheels very fast, in around 1/3 to 1/4 of the total life expectancy...  Grinding like that takes _forever_!!!!

You need to get to know this channel he covers surface grinding very well...


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## DavidR8 (Dec 4, 2020)

Thanks @Dabbler what do you run in yours?


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## Dabbler (Dec 4, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks @Dabbler what do you run in yours?




Soluble oil from PA.  I make it 1/3 stronger than they recommend, it takes longer to spoil.  Expect to replace it every 9 months to a year.  (I'm making a smaller extraction tank, because I need 10 gallons to fill my old tank) You can use a biocide to help extend it but I'm wary of the aerosols.  I use dust extraction to suck the aerosols away, but you can still smell that some of them are airborne in the shop.

We need to compare some notes on accuracy this summer WRT our surface grinders.  I bought a clapped out Brown and sharpe, but it started with great quality and large ways, so I thought it was a good investment.  I paid almost 3 times your entire deal to get it.


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## sdelivery (Dec 4, 2020)

If you're not going to use it frequently then do not use it. 
Quality Coolant cost money and if not maintained  and circulated will grow bacteria quite easily.
I was a maintenance machine repairman at an air craft parts plant we had 12 at one point ( this is where I got mine) all were used without coolant by skilled gring hands.
There were many other grinders in the grinding department and most of those used coolant. There were many operations on the cutter grinders that were done dry .
When grinding dry you should be using a dedicated vacuum.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 4, 2020)

Holy smokes!
Let me get my grinding legs under me 
Thanks for the advice on soluble oil. 
The return tank on this thing is huge. Basically 12” wide, 12” tall by 23” deep. 


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## Dabbler (Dec 4, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> The return tank on this thing is huge. Basically 12” wide, 12” tall by 23” deep.



*tiny* 

-- try 30" X 30" X 28" deep for my B&S.  that's huger, but not huge.  I've seen twice as large at Moore Industrial here in Calgary, when they did a lot of grinding.  Now _that's _huge....


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## DavidR8 (Dec 4, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> *tiny*
> 
> -- try 30" X 30" X 28" deep for my B&S.  that's huger, but not huge.  I've seen twice as large at Moore Industrial here in Calgary, when they did a lot of grinding.  Now _that's _huge....


Jeepers @Dabbler how big is your grinder that it has such a huge tank?


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## Dabbler (Dec 5, 2020)

6X12 valumaster.  I have put the tank in storage, because there's no room in my shop.  

 I have a small corridor to walk in right now.  gotta sell some machines!


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## DavidR8 (Dec 6, 2020)

The Parker has landed. 
Took some effort to move it with my 2-ton engine hoist but it went smoothly. 







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## DavidR8 (Dec 8, 2020)

Took some time tonight to start cleaning up the P-M.
Pulled the chuck so I could see the condition of the bed. It looks awful but it’s just dried oil.









The chuck has a funky actuation shaft so I wanted to investigate that and take pictures for the Walker folks so they can ID what’s required for a handle.





It came apart very easily. The inside is coated in petrified grease.
There’s virtually no wear on the internals or the lever, the fit on the stub on the chuck and the pin on the shaft is nice and snug. Just need to figure out how to remove the heaps of goo.

















Also pulled the table stops and middle limit thing (no idea what it’s actual name is), gave it a good wire brushing and vacuuming.
I don't plan on repainting the machine but this top surface will get painted so it's easier to clean.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 9, 2020)

I heard from the Walker chuck folks today.
The chuck has somewhat mysterious provenance. The block on the side must be a shop-made addition as is the square actuation drive.
Advice is to clean all the goo out of the inside but to not separate the magnetic pack due to the risk of injury and damage to the components.
I'm to add .25" of 90w gear oil to the base and seal it up with Loctite 77.
I'll have to either make a handle or re-make the square drive because it's a wobble-fest now.
One minor question...how do I measure a hole to size a roll pin?


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## brino (Dec 9, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I'm to add .25" of 90w gear oil to the base and seal it up with Loctite 77.



I love it, inches of oil; that is much easier to measure than oz. or mL....I have a scale in my pocket!

I mean, you have the CAD files right? So you know the volume intimately.
Tell me that!

-brino


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## DavidR8 (Dec 9, 2020)

Almost done modelling it now for the good of other 1960's vintage Walker chuck owners! 
I dropped it on my mouse and squished it...so small delay for that


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## lis2323 (Dec 9, 2020)

Hey David. I have a selection of roll pins if you need. 







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## DavidR8 (Dec 9, 2020)

Thanks @lis2323 I might take you up on that as I don't have one the correct size.


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## lis2323 (Dec 9, 2020)

Easiest way is take them all home to get the right fit and bring the rest back. 


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## DavidR8 (Dec 9, 2020)

lis2323 said:


> Easiest way is take them all home to get the right fit and bring the rest back.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will be in touch!


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## sdelivery (Dec 10, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I heard from the Walker chuck folks today.
> The chuck has somewhat mysterious provenance. The block on the side must be a shop-made addition as is the square actuation drive.
> Advice is to clean all the goo out of the inside but to not separate the magnetic pack due to the risk of injury and damage to the components.
> I'm to add .25" of 90w gear oil to the base and seal it up with Loctite 77.
> ...


The oil helps to cool and insulate the magnets wiring.
Measure the hole and the roll pin will be a few thousandths larger


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## Papa Charlie (Dec 10, 2020)

Nice David, you have a great piece of equipment there. I am a bit envious and it has been confirmed that you suck.

Wish I had the ability to take the other grinder off your hands. Close enough in WA but no place to put it and I think the boarder is still closed.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 10, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> The oil helps to cool and insulate the magnets wiring.
> Measure the hole and the roll pin will be a few thousandths larger



This is a ceramic magnet chuck so In this case I think the oil is purely to lubricate the springs and possibly the mag plates. 


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## DavidR8 (Dec 10, 2020)

Papa Charlie said:


> Nice David, you have a great piece of equipment there. I am a bit envious and it has been confirmed that you suck.
> 
> Wish I had the ability to take the other grinder off your hands. Close enough in WA but no place to put it and I think the boarder is still closed.



Thanks! I’m pretty stoked to have lucked into it. 
If it makes you feel better the other grinder went to a couple of brothers setting up a home shop in Vancouver. 


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## Winegrower (Dec 10, 2020)

Congratulations, David...not to intrude, but I also yesterday joined the surface grinder club with a B&S #2B unit.  It looks in pretty good shape and should not be a restoration project.   It comes with a B&S 6x18 magnetic chuck and get this, an entire auto feed package currently sitting on the floor, that would turn this into a B&S #2 automatic.   Not so sure I will take this step, as i really don’t do any lot runs of anything.   I just want to make nice looking surfaces.

Possibly even better, the seller had an incredibly cute and tiny horizontal mill, maybe a 2.5’x2.5’ footprint, on wheels, as pristine as the day it was built.   But it’s not clear who built it...he said it was a Japanese copy of a Hispano-Suisa (?) mill, but not positive.   So it’s coming home tomorrow along with the grinder.   Pictures later.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 10, 2020)

Winegrower said:


> Congratulations, David...not to intrude, but I also yesterday joined the surface grinder club with a B&S #2B unit. It looks in pretty good shape and should not be a restoration project. It comes with a B&S 6x18 magnetic chuck and get this, an entire auto feed package currently sitting on the floor, that would turn this into a B&S #2 automatic. Not so sure I will take this step, as i really don’t do any lot runs of anything. I just want to make nice looking surfaces.
> 
> Possibly even better, the seller had an incredibly cute and tiny horizontal mill, maybe a 2.5’x2.5’ footprint, on wheels, as pristine as the day it was built. But it’s not clear who built it...he said it was a Japanese copy of a Hispano-Suisa (?) mill, but not positive. So it’s coming home tomorrow along with the grinder. Pictures later.



Wow! Big congratulations @Winegrower 
Definitely want to see pics of your score!


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## DavidR8 (Dec 11, 2020)

I reassembled the chuck this morning.
Cleaned out the dried grease






I was all set to fill it with oil and put the mag pack back in when I spied a hole in the corner of the base. 





Wanting to follow their advice and put oil in the base, I enlarged the hole to take a 10-32 set screw. I dipped the set screw in Permatex and screwed it in snug.
Filled it with a quarter inch of 90w oil, applied more Permatex to the edge of the base and popped on the mag plates.
Other than the plates being about 30 lbs and very hard to hold, it was a dead easy job.
The actuation shaft is still lousy but that's a job for another day.

I then turned my attention to cleaning the bed. I stuck a rag in the coolant outlet and liberally brushed the bed with paint thinner. Like some kind of archaeology dig, layer, upon layer of grinding grit slowly came loose. I scooped it out the muck and eventually got it grit free.
About a half dozen rags later, it's pretty clean.
I, the other hand am less clean.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 11, 2020)

I lifted the table to inspect the ways.








They are in excellent condition with scraping marks fully visible and consistent along the length.
Unfortunately one of the steel tapes that moves the table was cracked almost all the way through.
So I need new drive tapes.


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## sdelivery (Dec 11, 2020)

I need a new drive tape also...only the left one.


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## sdelivery (Dec 11, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I reassembled the chuck this morning.
> Cleaned out the dried grease
> 
> 
> ...


I use Simple Green to clean with.
It kicks jazz and doesn't bother your hands.
I use it with my stones when stoning ways and especially table tops,  it makes a table top POP again (bright)


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## DavidR8 (Dec 11, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> I need a new drive tape also...only the left one.



Have you been in touch with Parker Majestic?
Are they available?
(My fear is they aren’t and I’ll have to figure out something else)


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## easymike29 (Dec 11, 2020)

Replace the tape with a continous one piece flexible plastic covered aircraft cable.I can't remember what diameter we used. 1/8 or 3/16 maybe. Stainless steel.
You'll be happy.

Eugene


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## NC Rick (Dec 11, 2020)

I keep thinking of things I *need* one for.   My milling machine vise jaws have some little dents and one of those are the ONLY WAY I can think of to fix them.


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## Weldingrod1 (Dec 11, 2020)

Stainless shim stock is available on rolls...

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## DavidR8 (Dec 11, 2020)

easymike29 said:


> Replace the tape with a continous one piece flexible plastic covered aircraft cable.I can't remember what diameter we used. 1/8 or 3/16 maybe. Stainless steel.
> You'll be happy.
> 
> Eugene


Was that on a Parker?


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## DavidR8 (Dec 11, 2020)

NC Rick said:


> I keep thinking of things I *need* one for.   My milling machine vise jaws have some little dents and one of those are the ONLY WAY I can think of to fix them.


I'd help you man but really you gotta be self-sufficient


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## sdelivery (Dec 11, 2020)

No I





DavidR8 said:


> Have you been in touch with Parker Majestic?
> Are they available?
> (My fear is they aren’t and I’ll have to figure out something else)


 Have not been in touch with Parker Majestic
But I think some spring steel would work....


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## DavidR8 (Dec 11, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> No I
> Have not been in touch with Parker Majestic
> But I think some spring steel would work....



I might try the plastic covered cable route. 


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## sdelivery (Dec 11, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I might try the plastic covered cable route.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As long as you can get them tensioned right.
You don't want backlash when changing direction


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## DavidR8 (Dec 11, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> As long as you can get them tensioned right.
> You don't want backlash when changing direction



The table on mine is sitting on blocks above the cross slide. 
Would you be able to take some photos of the drive hub? 


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## sdelivery (Dec 11, 2020)

Tomorrow when I go over to the shop I can take pictures. 
Did you have a manual?


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## DavidR8 (Dec 11, 2020)

Thanks, I’d appreciate that. 
I have the service manual such that it is. 


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## sdelivery (Dec 11, 2020)

Anything specific on the drive hub? 
My saddle is off.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 12, 2020)

I’m curious if it has some connection to the oil system.
The recess for the drive hub seems to have a fair bit of oil in it.


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## easymike29 (Dec 12, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Was that on a Parker?


Yes, on a Parker #2 and also on a 2Z. I think we had to make a new drum and of course clamps to modify the ends to suit. You'll find a world of difference in the "feel" when starting to crank and reversing the table. No more mushiness. Better at working between "stops" also. One cable should last you a lifetime.

Eugene


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## Cadillac (Dec 12, 2020)

When I had mine apart which is not a Parker but along the same design I remember looking over the band for the table to traverse. Looked to me like pallet banding. About the same width and very flexible. I had thought to myself if it needed replacing the banding looked like a good candidate. Idk.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 12, 2020)

easymike29 said:


> Yes, on a Parker #2 and also on a 2Z. I think we had to make a new drum and of course clamps to modify the ends to suit. You'll find a world of difference in the "feel" when starting to crank and reversing the table. No more mushiness. Better at working between "stops" also. One cable should last you a lifetime.
> 
> Eugene



Thanks Eugene, in the drum you made, do you recall if you cut grooves for the cable to ride in?


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## DavidR8 (Dec 12, 2020)

Cadillac said:


> When I had mine apart which is not a Parker but along the same design I remember looking over the band for the table to traverse. Looked to me like pallet banding. About the same width and very flexible. I had thought to myself if it needed replacing the banding looked like a good candidate. Idk.



Thanks @Cadillac, when I measured the thickness last night it seemed thinner than any strapping I’ve seen. But I was rushed so I might have measured incorrectly. 


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## DavidR8 (Dec 13, 2020)

I was awake at 0500 hrs today so was thinking that I'm going to try drilling new holes in the existing bands and see how that goes. 
I also thought about using heavy clamps on the table ends of the bands to put tension on them so they don't unwind. On the right side I might add a bungee cord to the wall for additional tension and out to the drill press stand on the left.
Working alone, a guy's got to be creative!


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 13, 2020)

I had a few minutes this afternoon and so I completely removed the table so I could figure out how to approach the problem. 

I’m very pleased with the condition of the ways. 

I installed the right side band and weighted the end with a C clamp so it wouldn’t unroll. 
















Then I marked and drilled the left side band and installed it. It was absolutely easy to drill. I was about to roll it in when I realized that it had to be wound on by hand so that it was at the length it would be with the table centred. So I snaked it under the other band till it was the right length. 
Attached another clamp to that end. 





Next step is to replace the table. 
I’m going to paint the flat area of the cross slide and the table before it goes back together.


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## Papa Charlie (Dec 14, 2020)

Wouldn't the bands have to be long enough for the table to reach both ends of its travel not just the center of the table? Or did I misread your post?


----------



## Cadillac (Dec 14, 2020)

Did you have a chance to measure the thickness of the banding?


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## DavidR8 (Dec 14, 2020)

Papa Charlie said:


> Wouldn't the bands have to be long enough for the table to reach both ends of its travel not just the center of the table? Or did I misread your post?


They are quite long actually. 
They one that attaches to the right side of the table is 52" long and the left side is 32" long. 
The challenge is that the bands are springy so if there's no tension on them they just uncoil. 
I think I see where you're going though...they way it is now doesn't have enough unwound band to allow for the travel.
I will measure the distance between the two band attachment points on the table and make sure that the ends of the band span that distance.


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 14, 2020)

Cadillac said:


> Did you have a chance to measure the thickness of the banding?


I did...I think I missed posting it here. It's .01" thick.


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 14, 2020)

Tried calling Parker Majestic... no answer...


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## 7milesup (Dec 14, 2020)

For what it is worth I would not use plastic coated cable.  Eventually, the plastic covering will fail and foul the mechanism or at least change the tension on the cables.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 14, 2020)

7milesup said:


> For what it is worth I would not use plastic coated cable. Eventually, the plastic covering will fail and foul the mechanism or at least change the tension on the cables.



I’m leaning toward uncoated stainless cable. I’ll need to devise some sort of tensioning method. Sort of similar to what’s used on a clothesline. 


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## Cadillac (Dec 15, 2020)

Was going through the McMaster Carr catalog yesterday. Saw that they do have spring steel banding in .010 thickness in 10,20,75’ rolls for around 20 dollars.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 15, 2020)

Cadillac said:


> Was going through the McMaster Carr catalog yesterday. Saw that they do have spring steel banding in .010 thickness in 10,20,75’ rolls for around 20 dollars.



Thanks I will have a look!!


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## lis2323 (Dec 15, 2020)

I will be the first to admit I know nothing about surface grinders but I really don't like the idea of using cable if the spring steel banding is available whatever the cost may be. 


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## DavidR8 (Dec 15, 2020)

Parker Majestic got back to me this morning. 
The bands are available. $60 for a pair including hardware. 
Done!


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## sdelivery (Dec 15, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Parker Majestic got back to me this morning.
> The bands are available. $60 for a pair including hardware.
> Done!
> 
> ...


Please share the telephone number and part number. Thank you


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 15, 2020)

Part number is PM-0000642-01 with a price of $60. 
Tape Band Assemblies include both the Long and Short Bands plus (2) Urethane and Steel Washers bonded together. 
My contact is:

Russ Kroneberg 
Parker Majestic/Penn United 
724-352-1551 ext 4505 


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## brino (Dec 15, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> The bands are available.



Great news.
That should save you days of designing, figuring, re-designing, futzing and hoping!
-brino


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## DavidR8 (Dec 15, 2020)

Just ordered them. 
Russ was super helpful. 
Told me the bands come with complete instructions on how to replace them. 
Also said they have 200 machines similar to mine that they refurbish including conversion to automatic feed using ball screws. 


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## brino (Dec 15, 2020)

@DavidR8 

You might tweak his email address so you're not responsible for adding him to a bunch of spam email lists.
Some thing like 00email_addr00@company.com (remove leading and trailing "00" from email address!)

-brino


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 15, 2020)

brino said:


> Great news.
> That should save you days of designing, figuring, re-designing, futzing and hoping!
> -brino



Indeed. I’ve been wrestling with options for a workaround. 
Also so thankful for instructions!


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## lis2323 (Dec 15, 2020)

brino said:


> @DavidR8
> 
> You might tweak his email address so you're not responsible for adding him to a bunch of spam email lists.
> Some thing like 00email_addr00@company.com (remove leading and trailing "00" from email address!)
> ...



So simple. I will need to remember that tip!
Thanks for posting. 


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## 7milesup (Dec 15, 2020)

brino said:


> Great news.
> That should save you days of designing, figuring, re-designing, futzing and hoping!
> -brino


Yeah, but what fun is that.  I was hoping to watch Dave do some designing of a drum system, along with associated milling and lathe procedures with numerous iterations to follow.  *sigh*
Welp, I guess I will have to watch some else's struggles.


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 15, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Yeah, but what fun is that. I was hoping to watch Dave do some designing of a drum system, along with associated milling and lathe procedures with numerous iterations to follow. *sigh*
> Welp, I guess I will have to watch some else's struggles.



I had it pretty well designed in my head. 
Of course making that into a reality is as well all know sometimes a twisty path. 

For entertainment sake I might mock up the drum and post the drawing.


----------



## brino (Dec 15, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Welp, I guess I will have to watch some else's struggles.



Sorry to kill your fun!
-brino


----------



## 7milesup (Dec 15, 2020)

brino said:


> Sorry to kill your fun!
> -brino


I forgive you.  I have plenty of fun on here anyhow!!


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## DavidR8 (Dec 15, 2020)

Couple of updates:
The VFD arrived, a Teco L510, basically a 1 hp version of what I have for my mill.
I also wrote to Ruthman Machinery to see if I could get details on the Gusher coolant pump that's on the P-M.






I'm trying to figure out flood vs. mist coolant so wanted to check on parts availability for the existing pump.
Ruthman sent me a hand drawn dimensional drawing of the pump with a Bill of Materials. Too good!


----------



## Papa Charlie (Dec 15, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Parker Majestic got back to me this morning.
> The bands are available. $60 for a pair including hardware.
> Done!
> 
> ...



That is good news, always good to go with OEM parts. Saves a lot of headaches and frustration and you know it will work correctly.

Save up all that frustration for the project where nothing is available, it will come up.


----------



## 7milesup (Dec 15, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Couple of updates:
> 
> I'm trying to figure out flood vs. mist coolant so wanted to check on parts availability for the existing pump.
> Ruthman sent me a hand drawn dimensional drawing of the pump with a Bill of Materials. Too good!


Same brand of pump I have.  Mine is 115volt.  No idea if mine even works, never had it plugged in.
I have used my SG very little and yet I find the grit all over items that are near it.  
I am going to have to do something though, either with a vacuum system such as an ash vacuum (because of the sparks), mist system or flood.  None of them are great choices IMHO.  Maybe mist would be the way to go.  Then you don't really have to worry about the coolant going rancid.  I have never run flood in anything so that would be a new experience for me.
Also Dave, I would highly recommend watching  Suburban tool and That Lazy Machinist videos on the SG.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 15, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Same brand of pump I have.  Mine is 115volt.  No idea if mine even works, never had it plugged in.
> I have used my SG very little and yet I find the grit all over items that are near it.
> I am going to have to do something though, either with a vacuum system such as an ash vacuum (because of the sparks), mist system or flood.  None of them are great choices IMHO.  Maybe mist would be the way to go.  Then you don't really have to worry about the coolant going rancid.  I have never run flood in anything so that would be a new experience for me.
> Also Dave, I would highly recommend watching  Suburban tool and That Lazy Machinist videos on the SG.


Thanks for the channel recommendation, I've watched a couple from Suburban and there's a ton of knowledge there!

I have some thoughts on dust collection using and a cyclone and a shop vac. I'm all over the place on coolant a bit leery of mist coolant because of the aerosols but am also not thrilled about trying to deal with gallons of coolant that's gone off.


----------



## sdelivery (Dec 15, 2020)

If you are going to do a coolant tank, make a bracket to hold a small submersible pump on the bottom and create a small fountain.
You will lose some water to evaporation but the fountain should aerate your tank. Keep the tramp oil off the top and force it to breathe.
I have taken compressed air through two regulators to 1/4 inch copper tube that I drilled tiny holes in and layed it in the bottom of the tank. 
Just turned the air up high enough to get some bubbles....
..


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 15, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> If you are going to do a coolant tank, make a bracket to hold a small submersible pump on the bottom and create a small fountain.
> You will lose some water to evaporation but the fountain should aerate your tank. Keep the tramp oil off the top and force it to breathe.
> I have taken compressed air through two regulators to 1/4 inch copper tube that I drilled tiny holes in and layed it in the bottom of the tank.
> Just turned the air up high enough to get some bubbles....
> ..


I was thinking about an aquarium air pump with a couple of aerator stones for aeration.


----------



## sdelivery (Dec 15, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I was thinking about an aquarium air pump with a couple of aerator stones for aeration.


Yes, that should help


----------



## brino (Dec 15, 2020)

7milesup said:


> I am going to have to do something though, either with a vacuum system such as an ash vacuum (because of the sparks), mist system or flood. None of them are great choices IMHO.



Would it be wrong if I enjoyed your "struggles" with "numerous iterations" of a dust/debris collection system?   

-brino


----------



## Dabbler (Dec 15, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> leery of mist coolant



Have a look st ROBRENZ and oxtool youtube - they both use a very easy to fabricate nozzle for coolant on the SG.


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## francist (Dec 15, 2020)

Cool badge


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## DavidR8 (Dec 15, 2020)

francist said:


> Cool badge


On the pump?
Definitely cool, I love how the rivet is incorporated.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 18, 2020)

I’m off work till the New Year so will get in some serious shop time.

The Teco VFD arrived this week. Wired it in this morning and fired it up. I bought it without hearing it run because it was not under power.
So hearing and seeing it run for the first time is a big deal for me.
The sound you hear is mostly the fan on the VFD, the spindle is very quiet. Thank goodness!
I’ll figure out how to upload a video...
Edit to add video link.


----------



## francist (Dec 18, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I’m off work till the New Year


Well it’s about time, I’ve been off since Sunday already....

Looks like that puppy runs pretty smooth


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## DavidR8 (Dec 18, 2020)

Thanks Frank, it's astonishingly quiet and smooth. I also mounted up a wheel and it smoothed out even more.
The table drive bands are out for delivery today so...there's potential for it to up and running by the end of the day!


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## 7milesup (Dec 18, 2020)

brino said:


> Would it be wrong if I enjoyed your "struggles" with "numerous iterations" of a dust/debris collection system?
> 
> -brino


LOL..  Not at all.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 19, 2020)

Well delivery of the steel replacement bands was delayed till Monday. Rats.


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## 7milesup (Dec 19, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Well delivery of the steel replacement bands was delayed till Monday. Rats.



Everything is delayed.  I ordered a HVLP spray gun to replace my worn out Porter Cable one.  It is coming from Eastwood.  I think it was supposed to be here Thursday, then Friday, then Today and now it is Monday.  Of course, it did come from the East Coast somewhere so I expected the delay.


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 19, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Everything is delayed. I ordered a HVLP spray gun to replace my worn out Porter Cable one. It is coming from Eastwood. I think it was supposed to be here Thursday, then Friday, then Today and now it is Monday. Of course, it did come from the East Coast somewhere so I expected the delay.



It was especially disappointing as I got the “out for delivery notification” at 10 am yesterday. 
Coincidentally my package also came from the East Coast, PA precisely. 
Got out before the snow apparently.


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## lis2323 (Dec 19, 2020)

francist said:


> Cool badge



I agree 

I would have bought the machine for that aspect alone!


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## DavidR8 (Dec 19, 2020)

Out running errands and received this:





Hurray!


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## 7milesup (Dec 19, 2020)

My badge is a lot less cool than Dave's.  I now have badge envy.  What next...


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## DavidR8 (Dec 19, 2020)

Looks are skin deep @7milesup, it's what's inside that counts


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## brino (Dec 19, 2020)

Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!

-brino


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## 7milesup (Dec 19, 2020)

brino said:


> Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!
> 
> -brino



LOL.   Never thought of that one until you posted..   Too dang funny.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 19, 2020)

The bands arrived today. 
I’m not sure what the two spools are for. 
I don’t recall seeing any parts like these. 
They have a pretty hard rubber between the two washers. 
Maybe some some kind of bump stop for the table stops?
Edit: they fit over the studs that connect the bands to the table. 
I believe they are to cushion the band from the abrupt stop when the table is reversed.


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## sdelivery (Dec 20, 2020)

7milesup said:


> LOL.   Never thought of that one until you posted..   Too dang funny.





brino said:


> Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!
> 
> -brino


From my favorite movie.....BLAZING SADDLES


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## Papa Charlie (Dec 20, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> From my favorite movie.....BLAZING SADDLES



"Treasure of Sierra Madre", from 1948, Bogart at his best.


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## ACHiPo (Dec 21, 2020)

Papa Charlie said:


> "Treasure of Sierra Madre", from 1948, Bogart at his best.


Yes and yes


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## DavidR8 (Dec 22, 2020)

Had a few moments today to work on the grinder.
There was a pretty good buildup of crud on the table handwheel so I took it off for cleaning. I knew the hub that rotated the table worked off a gear from the handwheel shaft but I wasn't expecting this arrangement. The handwheel connects to a short axle with a small gear which drives this larger ring gear (I'm sure I don't have the terms right) which is attached to the hub shaft.
Quite an elegant arrangement.


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## brino (Dec 22, 2020)

Do you suppose it's to keep grinding dust out?
I'd bet any sort of open spur gear arrangement would get ground against each other and quickly wear.

-brino


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## Braeden P (Dec 22, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Everything is delayed.  I ordered a HVLP spray gun to replace my worn out Porter Cable one.  It is coming from Eastwood.  I think it was supposed to be here Thursday, then Friday, then Today and now it is Monday.  Of course, it did come from the East Coast somewhere so I expected the delay.


there is a eastwood 5 minutes from me really nice to g and get what you need


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## DavidR8 (Dec 22, 2020)

brino said:


> Do you suppose it's to keep grinding dust out?
> I'd bet any sort of open spur gear arrangement would get ground against each other and quickly wear.
> 
> -brino



That seems very likely as it is completely clean inside, absolutely no evidence of any grit. 
I am so impressed by the quality of construction, the fit and finish is outstanding. 
Hoping that I will get it back together today


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## DavidR8 (Dec 22, 2020)

Bands are on! 

The instructions from Parker Majestic say to fill the wells halfway so I’m waiting on a delivery of way oil from KBC before I reset the table.


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## DavidR8 (Dec 22, 2020)

It lives!
Undressed wheel because KBC is sold out of the diamond dresser I ordered. 
But the table went back on just fine. 
Table is silky smooth. 
Definitely takes some coordination to grind smoothly though I can see it being a bit of a zen activity.


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 23, 2020)

Had another go at grinding the same piece. 
Slower feed rate and lighter cut with a final pass at the same depth of cut. 
Made a difference I think.
(Picture won’t post...)


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## sdelivery (Dec 23, 2020)

With an undressed wheel it will be hard if not impossible to get a good  finish.


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 23, 2020)




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## mmcmdl (Dec 23, 2020)

Dave , for a SG finish that looks like a plowed field . ( Not a dig )  You'll be amazed at the finish you'll get with the correct , dressed wheel .  If you need a dresser and diamond until you get yours lemme know .


----------



## sdelivery (Dec 23, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


>


Are you sparking out? It looks like your stepping over in narrow increments this can deteriorate the edge of the wheel into an angle. 
You will have a blast learning to grind! 
How are you doing on a vacuum?


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 24, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> Dave , for a SG finish that looks like a plowed field . ( Not a dig ) You'll be amazed at the finish you'll get with the correct , dressed wheel .  If you need a dresser and diamond until you get yours lemme know .



Thanks Dave, I should have one here on Wednesday according to FedEx.


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 24, 2020)

sdelivery said:


> Are you sparking out? It looks like your stepping over in narrow increments this can deteriorate the edge of the wheel into an angle.
> You will have a blast learning to grind!
> How are you doing on a vacuum?



This was very small step over. I was trying to get a better finish than my first attempt. 
If by sparking out you mean did the sparks stop, then yes I did. 
All of this is just playing around, trying to get a feel for the machine. 
I had my shop vac and dust deputy cyclone hooked up to it today work pretty well actually.


----------



## sdelivery (Dec 24, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> This was very small step over. I was trying to get a better finish than my first attempt.
> If by sparking out you mean did the sparks stop, then yes I did.
> All of this is just playing around, trying to get a feel for the machine.
> I had my shop vac and dust deputy cyclone hooked up to it today work pretty well actually.


I am glad you are making great headway.
You have to practice to learn.


----------



## Liljoebrshooter (Dec 24, 2020)

I agree with the practice.   I bought a grinder earlier this year and have been down this same path David.  I  have tried 5 different wheels and one of them works much better for me. 
Do you have a way to measure your depth of cut?  I have an indicator mounted on mine.   
Joe


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 24, 2020)

Liljoebrshooter said:


> I agree with the practice. I bought a grinder earlier this year and have been down this same path David. I have tried 5 different wheels and one of them works much better for me.
> Do you have a way to measure your depth of cut? I have an indicator mounted on mine.
> Joe
> View attachment 348482



I don’t have an indicator to measure depth of cut. So far I’ve relied the hand wheel vernier. One revolution of the handwheel moves the spindle .050" with direct reading of .0001". But I can see how an indicator would be useful. 
What wheel finally worked best for you?


----------



## Liljoebrshooter (Dec 24, 2020)

I was using the hand wheel also but because of the backlash in all the moving parts it wasn't very predictable.   I now move the wheel down really close and place the indicator on it.  Then I can see exactly how far its moving.   I get good results with a  0005" depth of cut.  I  can adjust the amounts of step over for roughing and finishing.
I have had good luck with the CGW 46H wheel.  This is only my opinion and will probably get bashed for even saying it.
Check out Solid Rock Machine shop on  u tube.  He has a great video about wheel selection. 
Joe


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 24, 2020)

Thanks @Liljoebrshooter, I actually have that wheel in my KBC shopping cart


----------



## sdelivery (Dec 24, 2020)

All manual machines that dont have ball screws, the procedure is to go opposite of your feed direction then reverse into cutting/grinding this load the screw and you set your zero with the floating dial then the numbers on the hand wheel will be accurate


----------



## Liljoebrshooter (Dec 24, 2020)

That is tough to do with a vertical head.   You lift the head to raise it a little then you have to lower into the work.   This puts the backlash on the wrong side. 

Joe


----------



## ACHiPo (Dec 24, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Bands are on!
> 
> The instructions from Parker Majestic say to fill the wells halfway so I’m waiting on a delivery of way oil from KBC before I reset the table.


Finally a valid use for an adjustable wrench!


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 24, 2020)

Liljoebrshooter said:


> That is tough to do with a vertical head. You lift the head to raise it a little then you have to lower into the work. This puts the backlash on the wrong side.
> 
> Joe



I was wondering about how gravity affects this situation. 

If the lead screw is taking the weight of the motor and spindle and basically controlling the descent then any backlash would be upward. 

This would seem to introduce an uncontrolled variable in an otherwise very precise machine. 

Conversely if the lead screw is pushing the motor and spindle down then there would be no backlash except when raised. 

Or am I thinking about it wrong?


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 24, 2020)

ACHiPo said:


> Finally a valid use for an adjustable wrench!



Sadly my adjustable wrenches were not up to the task and I had to switch to combination wrenches.


----------



## 7milesup (Dec 24, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I was wondering about how gravity affects this situation.
> 
> If the lead screw is taking the weight of the motor and spindle and basically controlling the descent then any backlash would be upward.
> 
> ...


Just like any of our machines, any backlash is/should be eliminated one you move the handwheel in the desired direction.  In my case, my Bridgeport surface grinder has some backlash in the vertical adjustment wheel, but once you are heading "down", that backlash is gone.  Each graduation on my vertical wheel is .0001, and I know that this is pretty darn accurate just in observing how it sparks off.  I have never put a dial indicator or test indicator on it but I know for a fact that it does not have backlash once you are going in the down direction.  I usually move it about .0002 per pass.


----------



## 7milesup (Dec 24, 2020)

Actually missed Sdelivery's post #158.  I believe we are saying the same thing.


----------



## DavidR8 (Dec 24, 2020)

7milesup said:


> Just like any of our machines, any backlash is/should be eliminated one you move the handwheel in the desired direction. In my case, my Bridgeport surface grinder has some backlash in the vertical adjustment wheel, but once you are heading "down", that backlash is gone. Each graduation on my vertical wheel is .0001, and I know that this is pretty darn accurate just in observing how it sparks off. I have never put a dial indicator or test indicator on it but I know for a fact that it does not have backlash once you are going in the down direction. I usually move it about .0002 per pass.



I just tried moving the spindle on mine; no backlash in the down direction unless switching directions, down to up or vice versa.


----------



## sdelivery (Dec 24, 2020)

Liljoebrshooter said:


> That is tough to do with a vertical head.   You lift the head to raise it a little then you have to lower into the work.   This puts the backlash on the wrong side.
> 
> Joe


Not actually and part of the reason we spark out.
If your screw has backlash the wheel could be lifting just slightly and you might notice this if you traverse the part again without moving the head down.
The head/ motor assembly is heavy enough that more than a few tenths lift would be unlikely. 
Now let me say this....I have seen both seasoned and unseasoned  do some crazy stuff....


----------



## 7milesup (Jan 2, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> I heard from the Walker chuck folks today.
> The chuck has somewhat mysterious provenance. The block on the side must be a shop-made addition as is the square actuation drive.
> Advice is to clean all the goo out of the inside but to not separate the magnetic pack due to the risk of injury and damage to the components.
> I'm to add .25" of 90w gear oil to the base and seal it up with Loctite 77.
> ...



Somewhat reviving this....
I took my Walker chuck apart today to inspect the handle mechanism.  I have never used a magnetic chuck before so no idea how the handle should feel.  Mine goes over center with a "clunk".  Almost a snap.  Just doesn't seem quite right.  Is your handle smooth Dave when you operate it?
 I noticed that the "over center arm" (not sure if that is what it is called) has a rather sloppy fit on the handle.  The other side that is on the magnet fits nicely.  I wonder if that is how it is supposed to be.
Also, you say Loctite 77.  I can't find any info on that.  Are they referencing an anaerobic sealer or what?


----------



## sdelivery (Jan 2, 2021)

A kinda clunk sounds like a normal manual chuck. Stone one side of your 123 blocks and place it on the clean and stoned chuck turn it on and try to remove the block.
I dont remember loctite 77 being used on a chuck but it is possible. It is a glue like super glue I think.


----------



## DavidR8 (Jan 2, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Somewhat reviving this....
> I took my Walker chuck apart today to inspect the handle mechanism. I have never used a magnetic chuck before so no idea how the handle should feel. Mine goes over center with a "clunk". Almost a snap. Just doesn't seem quite right. Is your handle smooth Dave when you operate it?
> I noticed that the "over center arm" (not sure if that is what it is called) has a rather sloppy fit on the handle. The other side that is on the magnet fits nicely. I wonder if that is how it is supposed to be.
> Also, you say Loctite 77. I can't find any info on that. Are they referencing an anaerobic sealer or what?



Mine definitely has a distinct ‘over center’ feel when actuated, could definitely be characterized as a snap. 

When I had it apart I gained a bit of an understanding of how the mechanism works. 
The pins on mine were very snug. The only play in the system is from the poorly fitted square drive part.

The email from Walker Magnetic said to use Loctite 77 Ultra Blue. 
Also to put 1/4” of 90 wt gear oil in the bottom of the housing.


----------



## 7milesup (Jan 2, 2021)

Ok.  Thanks Dave.  I think I am going to have to make a bushing for mine.

EDIT:  I looked for Loctite 77 Ultra Blue.  Permatex makes a 77 Ultra Blue.  It is just blue silicone that is very resistant to oils.  
--->Here is the linky<--- to it, although I would not buy it from Fastenal.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 2, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Ok.  Thanks Dave.  I think I am going to have to make a bushing for mine.
> 
> EDIT:  I looked for Loctite 77 Ultra Blue.  Permatex makes a 77 Ultra Blue.  It is just blue silicone that is very resistant to oils.
> --->Here is the linky<--- to it, although I would not buy it from Fastenal.


If you get a moment I'd sure appreciate seeing what the handle looks like.
Thanks for the info on the 77Ultra Blue. I had some on hand so didn't really think about it.


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## 7milesup (Jan 3, 2021)

I will do that tomorrow Dave.  Late here.  I'm calling it a day.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 3, 2021)

7milesup said:


> I will do that tomorrow Dave. Late here. I'm calling it a day.



Sounds good  
Have great night.


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## 7milesup (Jan 3, 2021)

Hi Dave. Here are some pictures of the handle.   Your magnetic chuck is apparenty a little different than mine. Mine is 8 in by 15 in.
It looks like they added up block on to yours where the handle is. I'm assuming the hole where the handle passes through was worn.


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## 7milesup (Jan 3, 2021)

I see that your way oiling is accomplished the same way as my Bridgeport, which I find interesting.  The oil wells on mine were not bad on my longitudinal travel but the lateral travel (Y axis) were all bunked up and the oil passages were clogged. 
Of course the manual calls for Vactra #1 and all I have is Vactra #2.  I wonder if I could use #2 or some other handy alternative to #1.


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## Cadillac (Jan 3, 2021)

I’ve rebuilt acouple mag chucks that I’ve purchased. Between water getting in rusting the plates and no grease or oil the linkages got pretty beat up on mine. Went through cleaned all the surfaces, made a new linkage piece because the oblong holes shortened the throw of the magnet alignment to the top plate. Also made a new bushing for arm. That where I beleive water/coolant was getting in. So after boring bushing I cut a oring groove on the ID of bushing to seal shaft from coolant. After making the new parts I coated all parts in a thin layer of grease and reassembled. Here’s some pics I took the first is a 6x12 bad links and bushing this design slides the mag plate along the top plate no separation. 
	

		
			
		

		
	











The second is a suburban 6x6 compound angle mag chuck. Same problem tough to engage and sloppy linkage. So I disassembled cleaned all the rust out of it. Stoned all the surfaces. I didn’t have to make anything the chuck was in good shape except the rust. This design pivots the mag plate off the top plate not sliding it. Definately more of a snap when engaged.





I’ve read that on some older chucks separating the mag plate from the top plate can reverse polarity on magnets. I think this is on the powdered type of magnets. Idk
The three that I’ve taken apart had newer type of coated magnets and all worked perfect once gone through. I haven’t yet but once together the top and bottom of chuck should be checked and ground for flatness and parrallelism.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 3, 2021)

7milesup said:


> I see that your way oiling is accomplished the same way as my Bridgeport, which I find interesting.  The oil wells on mine were not bad on my longitudinal travel but the lateral travel (Y axis) were all bunked up and the oil passages were clogged.
> Of course the manual calls for Vactra #1 and all I have is Vactra #2.  I wonder if I could use #2 or some other handy alternative to #1.


I'm not sure if you could or not. I think I'd look at the specs for them and see what the differences are. 
Thanks very much for the photos, they are very helpful.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 3, 2021)

Thanks for the pics @Cadillac, I was nervous about disassembling mine but when I got it apart I was surprised by how simple it was.


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## 7milesup (Jan 3, 2021)

You're welcome Dave. 
Interesting Cadillac.  after seeing some of your guy's chucks, I think mine is in pretty good shape. 
I just turned a bronze bushing to take the slop out of my linkage.


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## Liljoebrshooter (Jan 3, 2021)

I have almost the same picture as cadillac.  My linkage was worn so much the magnet would not release. 
Joe


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## 7milesup (Jan 3, 2021)

Did a little research on Vactra No. 1 oil.  First, it is pretty much impossible to find except in 5 gallon pails, and even then, it is usually listed just as ISO 32 mineral oil.  
I would be curious Dave what your P-M calls for in its oil wells, since that setup looks nearly identical to my Bridgeport.


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## Dabbler (Jan 3, 2021)

I've successfully substituted ISO32 hydraulic oil, which is readily available here...


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## 7milesup (Jan 3, 2021)

That is what I was thinking too, Dabbler.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 3, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Did a little research on Vactra No. 1 oil. First, it is pretty much impossible to find except in 5 gallon pails, and even then, it is usually listed just as ISO 32 mineral oil.
> I would be curious Dave what your P-M calls for in its oil wells, since that setup looks nearly identical to my Bridgeport.



The manual calls for Vactra #2 for all oil points.


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## 7milesup (Jan 3, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> The manual calls for Vactra #2 for all oil points.


Interesting.  Your wheel oiling system looks nearly identical to mine.  I think I am going to try the hydraulic oil and see how that goes, although I have a gallon of Vactra 2 sitting here doing nothing at the moment.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 3, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Interesting. Your wheel oiling system looks nearly identical to mine. I think I am going to try the hydraulic oil and see how that goes, although I have a gallon of Vactra 2 sitting here doing nothing at the moment.



No matter what, KBC has almost any oil we might require.


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## sdelivery (Jan 4, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> I'm not sure if you could or not. I think I'd look at the specs for them and see what the differences are.
> Thanks very much for the photos, they are very helpful.


Viscosity Vactra 1 should be iso 32 and vactra 2 should be iso 68.
You can use it as is or add a little straight 30 weight oil to thin it out.
There were occasions when we ran straight mineral spirit in our small surface grinders, it kept the film of way oil from
Lifting the table.
The lifting was seldom more than a tenth or two and generally only occurred for the first little bit after the way lube pump had discharged. but when the work is critical enough you do what works.
In industry these are tools and are expected to wear out eventually.


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## 7milesup (Jan 4, 2021)

sdelivery said:


> Viscosity Vactra 1 should be iso 32 and vactra 2 should be iso 68.
> You can use it as is or add a little straight 30 weight oil to thin it out.
> There were occasions when we ran straight mineral spirit in our small surface grinders, it kept the film of way oil from
> Lifting the table.
> ...



So Sdelivery.....  I picked up some ISO 32 hydraulic oil.  After reading numerous threads on other forums, it seems that the general consensus is that (high quality) hydraulic oil is considered as a suitable replacement.  This is especially true where Vactra #1 is called for in a headstock as an example.  Anit-wear (A/W) hydraulic oil is usually anti-foaming, hydrophobic and protects against oxidation and rust.  It seems though that Vactra 2 has a level of adhesiveness that provides for continued protection on sloped and vertical surfaces.  I am not sure if Vactra 1 has the same quality.
ISO 32 is SAE 10, so it is quite thin.  ISO 68 is SAE 20. 
I think I am trying to understand rocket science for a machine that uses Flinstone technology  

Sorry for derailing your thread Dave.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 4, 2021)

7milesup said:


> So Sdelivery..... I picked up some ISO 32 hydraulic oil. After reading numerous threads on other forums, it seems that the general consensus is that (high quality) hydraulic oil is considered as a suitable replacement. This is especially true where Vactra #1 is called for in a headstock as an example. Anit-wear (A/W) hydraulic oil is usually anti-foaming, hydrophobic and protects against oxidation and rust. It seems though that Vactra 2 has a level of adhesiveness that provides for continued protection on sloped and vertical surfaces. I am not sure if Vactra 1 has the same quality.
> ISO 32 is SAE 10, so it is quite thin. ISO is SAE 20.
> I think I am trying to understand rocket science for a machine that uses Flinstone technology
> 
> Sorry for derailing your thread Dave.



Totally fine @7milesup!
It’s all learning for me. And I was frankly surprised that Parker Majestic calls for #2 every where on my machine. Maybe though the higher tack factor of the #2 is to keep the oil stuck on the vertical lead screw in the column?


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## Janderso (Jan 4, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks for the pics @Cadillac, I was nervous about disassembling mine but when I got it apart I was surprised by how simple it was.


I read somewhere, never take the mag chuck apart. Then I watch you guys
Those things get nasty.
I may check mine out some day but for now, it works perfectly.


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## 7milesup (Jan 4, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Totally fine @7milesup!
> It’s all learning for me. And I was frankly surprised that Parker Majestic calls for #2 every where on my machine. Maybe though the higher tack factor of the #2 is to keep the oil stuck on the vertical lead screw in the column?



Very possible Dave.  I do find it surprising that your manual calls for Vactra #2 everywhere yet it does make perfect sense on the vertical ways.  I just went and looked at my manual and it calls for "a suitable grease" be applied "as required".    I would say that is a rather broad requirement. I guess that one of my go-to's, Super Lube, is what I will be using.  
I do know that the oilers and oil passages were plugged with sludge, so I am glad that I pulled this thing apart to check it and clean it up.  Overall, the machine is in good shape, but the lubrication was suspect.
Also, my longitudinal movement is effected by a cogged timing belt vis a vis your stainless metal straps.  It could use a new one, although it is surprisingly good shape for its age.  There was a number on the belt but I thought to myself, what are the chances of finding one.  Turns out, it is a very common timing belt for cars.  I have two open box ones coming from eBay.  $10 for two plus $10 for shipping.  I guess I am set for life on that end.


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## 7milesup (Jan 4, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I read somewhere, never take the mag chuck apart. Then I watch you guys
> Those things get nasty.
> I may check mine out some day but for now, it works perfectly.


I think Jeff that when there is reference to never take a magnetic chuck apart, there are some caveats.  First, the force of the magnets can be significant, so pinched fingers/skin is a risk.  But more so, I believe that the reference more applies to taking the actual magnet packs apart from each other.  My magnet packs seem to be in good shape, as does Dave's.  If they weren't, we would have found shards of magnets in the bottom of the chucks.  Therefore, I have no reason to separate the packs from each other, which may be a rather daunting task.  I have read of people doing so, and repairing their magnets, but thank goodness, it does not appear that we have to do that.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 4, 2021)

Janderso said:


> I read somewhere, never take the mag chuck apart. Then I watch you guys
> Those things get nasty.
> I may check mine out some day but for now, it works perfectly.



The folks at Walker were really clear that I was not to separate the two magnetic plates. There’s a very real possibility of injury because of the forces involved. 
I did watch a video of someone separating the plates but it was a much smaller chuck so the forces were much less than on a 6x18.


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## sdelivery (Jan 4, 2021)

7milesup said:


> So Sdelivery.....  I picked up some ISO 32 hydraulic oil.  After reading numerous threads on other forums, it seems that the general consensus is that (high quality) hydraulic oil is considered as a suitable replacement.  This is especially true where Vactra #1 is called for in a headstock as an example.  Anit-wear (A/W) hydraulic oil is usually anti-foaming, hydrophobic and protects against oxidation and rust.  It seems though that Vactra 2 has a level of adhesiveness that provides for continued protection on sloped and vertical surfaces.  I am not sure if Vactra 1 has the same quality.
> ISO 32 is SAE 10, so it is quite thin.  ISO 68 is SAE 20.
> I think I am trying to understand rocket science for a machine that uses Flinstone technology
> 
> Sorry for derailing your thread Dave.


Not a problem.  The biggest thing to remember is the vactra series of oils are supposed to be slide way oils with a tactifier in them. Which just helps to keep the oil where you want it.
I see iso 32 hydraulic oil used as headstock lubricants and in the larger grinders it was the slide lubricant as well as hydraulic oil and was used in most of the hydrostatic machines.
IMO, I use way oil (vactra series) in dedicated way lube systems in combination systems like a lathe apron that lubricates the apron as well as the slides I use a hydraulic oil.
Most headstocks I use iso 32 hydraulic
Many of the special spindle oils are gone in favor of hydraulic oils in different viscosity. 
You are correct the 30 weight engine oil wouldn't be correct to thin the iso 68 to close to a iso 32.


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## Dabbler (Jan 4, 2021)

If you need more stiction in your hydraulic oil , you can add a dash of STP to it.  All STP is, is stiction additives that way oils have in them already...


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## sdelivery (Jan 4, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> If you need more stiction in your hydraulic oil , you can add a dash of STP to it.  All STP is, is stiction additives that way oils have in them already...


I use dollar store generic chain saw lubricant in my Bridgeport. It is a little heavy but works very well.
If it's not between the slides it's not going to work


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## 7milesup (Jan 4, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> If you need more stiction in your hydraulic oil , you can add a dash of STP to it.  All STP is, is stiction additives that way oils have in them already...


Ohhh.  Never thought of that!  Makes perfect sense.
Love this forum.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 23, 2021)

Took some time and tried grinding tonight with a dressed wheel. 
Big difference! This piece is glass smooth. 




Compared to this with an undressed wheel. I can feel the ridges.


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## mmcmdl (Jan 23, 2021)

Is that " soft" material Dave . It looks like it is .


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## DavidR8 (Jan 23, 2021)

mmcmdl said:


> Is that " soft" material Dave . It looks like it is .


It isn't hardened as a file will dig in.


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## ACHiPo (Jan 23, 2021)

Nice!


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## mmcmdl (Jan 23, 2021)

Well wait until you grind some nice hardened tool steel . You'll be amazed with the finish .


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## sdelivery (Jan 24, 2021)

Use a hard wheel for soft materials.
Try stepping over about 3/4 of the width of the wheel, that will eliminate some of the lines.


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## Papa Charlie (Jan 24, 2021)

Nice work, the other members are right, wait until you try some harder material. That's when the SG will shine, literately.


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## Janderso (Jan 24, 2021)

Looking good David.
As mmcmdl (aka Dave) said, when you grind hardened parts the finish is incredible.
I think there is a bit of witch craft involved in surface grinding.
Grinder hands can share their knowledge but for me, the right wheel (there are only 10,000 to choose from) a fresh dress with a final pass of .0002” with a small step over, spark out.
It’s like a mirror finish.
This Norton ceramic was expensive but man, what a high quality wheel.
Balanced and it has made me a believer in ceramic.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 24, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Looking good David.
> As mmcmdl (aka Dave) said, when you grind hardened parts the finish is incredible.
> I think there is a bit of witch craft involved in surface grinding.
> Grinder hands can share their knowledge but for me, the right wheel (there are only 10,000 to choose from) a fresh dress with a final pass of .0002” with a small step over, spark out.
> ...



Thanks Jeff 
I don’t have a balancer so I have no idea if there’s imbalance in this wheel. 
One more thing on the need to buy list!


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## Janderso (Jan 24, 2021)

Did you see Ca Lem’s diy balancer? He makes everything look simple but it’s doable for us hobby guys.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 24, 2021)

Janderso said:


> Did you see Ca Lem’s diy balancer? He makes everything look simple but it’s doable for us hobby guys.


Actually I didn't but I'll have a look. Thanks Jeff!


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## 7milesup (Jan 24, 2021)

DavidR8 said:


> Thanks Jeff
> I don’t have a balancer so I have no idea if there’s imbalance in this wheel.
> One more thing on the need to buy list!


Make your own.  Just like  propeller balancer for model aircraft, the concept is very straight forward.


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## DavidR8 (Jan 24, 2021)

7milesup said:


> Make your own.  Just like  propeller balancer for model aircraft, the concept is very straight forward.


Indeed. I think I have a set of planer blades too.


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## 7milesup (Jan 24, 2021)

Notice that the "bearings" overlap.  This prevents binding.
This type of balancer needs no leveling (within reason of course) to achieve a proper balance.  The planer blade method is certainly a viable option but requires them to be nearly perfect when it comes to the blades  being level both laterally and longitudinally.


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## Janderso (Jan 24, 2021)

Actually, 7 miles concept looks easier than Ca Lem’s.


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## Dabbler (May 30, 2021)

@DavidR8 You will also need a balancing arbour - if you a re too busy to make one, there is WM Sopko:



			Balancing Style Wheel Adapter Accessories.
		




​


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## DavidR8 (May 30, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> @DavidR8 You will also need a balancing arbour - if you a re too busy to make one, there is WM Sopko:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks sir, I do have a chunk of 12L set aside for an arbour but I seem to have misplaced the time to make it. Maybe it's with all my pencils and 10mm sockets.


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