# Shop Lighting Commentary



## cathead (Mar 27, 2015)

With the influx of the new LED lighting, I expect some of you have already added some of the
new high efficiency lights.  My shop has mostly 4 foot fluorescent lights so will be slowly
phasing them out in favor of the new more efficient and environmently friendly lighting.  
I just bought a test under counter light by Feit and installed it over my kitchen stove.  It
really puts out the light for it's small current draw.   I see there are 4 foot  LED shop lights
available now and wondering if any of you have installed and used them.  Most of these
shop lights seem pretty expensive to me so decided to procrastinate a bit and take my 
time in the change over.  Another factor is the fact that all my 4 foot fluorescent lights
are hard wired so would probably have to junk them and replace with the new.  I have
not seen any LED 4 foot replacement bulbs but just replacing the bulbs would be easy. 
I doubt such a thing exists though as the fluorescents run on very high voltage and the 
LED operates on low voltage.   I'm curious to know your experiences.


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## rgray (Mar 27, 2015)

I got 10 of the 4 foot led florescent replacement bulbs about 6 months ago. They are great. Wish I had more 4 foot fixtures. I have more 8 footers and am anxiously waiting for 8 foot led bulbs. They are just starting to show up on ebay, but the price is still pretty high.
The local costco store has snap on 25 watt work lights. Incredibly bright. I put 3 of them in the rafters in on of my shops and now use them (75 watts) instead of turning on my 3 eight foot HO florescents (660 watts)


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## RJSakowski (Mar 27, 2015)

When I did a complete remodel of our kitchen some nine years ago, I elected to go with LED lighting.  It was cutting edge technology at the thime.  Although they were more efficient at the time than halogen, they had ways to go.  

Today, LED is arguably the most efficient lighting available, running in the 140 lumen/watt range.  Often, efficiency is rated in terms of efficacy.  LED lighting is fundamentally different than other lighting in that it projects the light in one direction, typically a 120 degree cone, as opposed to nearly 360 degree radiation of incandescent and fluorescent lights. Back light has to be reflected to be useful in most case and there are losses associated with that.   Because the LED's provide a greater percentage of useful light, their output seems higher than it actually is.  They use efficacy to describe the useful light output.  I used warm white LED's, (~3000K) for ambiance but the cool white are the most efficient.  

LED's are low voltage DC devices and regular household current has to be transformed.  Standard transformers have energy losses associated with them which reduces overall efficiency.  Additionally, LED's have to have current limitation provided to prevent thermal runaway and self destruction.  This is most simply done by placing a ballast resistor in series with an LED string.  These resistors transform electrical energy into heat, again reducing the overall efficiency. Great strides have been made in the driver circuitry for them. Modern LED drivers usually use some sort of switching technology to drive the LED's.  This typically runs more efficiently than other forms.

I always look for light output on any LED I buy.  Don't trust high intensity claims unless they are backed up by specs.  Commercial LED lighting providers use two metrics to describe their product; equivalent light output and actual output.  Equivalent output is usually compared to a standard incandescent bulb (40 watt, 60 watt).  Fluorescent replacements usually give actual lumen output.  T12 fluorescent lamps typically have a an output of around 3500 lumens for a 40 watt lamp.  If you want an equivalent amount of light in your replacement fixture, you should be looking at this as a guideline.

For the more adventurous, there is LED strip lighting.  I used this on our front porch instead of fluorescent lamps. A five meter strip replaced four fluorescents.  My wife insisted that I put a dimmier on them because they were too bright.  They are found in strips running up to 5 meters long.  They have a self adhesive backing  and run on 12 volts dc with built-in driver circuitry.  They can be cut at intervals of 3 LED's, usually about 1-1/2" and the can be connected together to make longer runs.  I mount them on an aluminum backing, 1/8 x 2" flat or 1/2" aluminum channel (sold as plywood edging at the local DIY). It helps with heat sinking  which increases light output and service life and should replacement be necessary, makes for easier work.  Replacement of defective LED's, should that happen is done by cutting out the bank(s) of three and solderingng the replacement.  This is something I have yet to do.  I provide the 12 volt dc power with high efficiency switching power supplies which are quite economical now.

LED Supply sells drop in replacements for 4' fluorescent's.  Environmental Lights also sells commercial fixtures for area lighting.  Both are on-line and companies I have had excellent service from.

Bottom line:  LED lighting is more efficient but it is still quite pricey compared to other forms.  I have fluorescent lighting in my shop and am not contemplating replacement of same at this time because the incremental savings in electricity for LED replacements is not that great yet.  I have replaced almost all incandescent lighting however and will use LED lighting for all new projects.  The LED technology and the driver technology are both making great advances.  Costs will come down in the near future, due to improved technology and volume manufacturing.  It may be advisable to wait a few years to be able to take advantage of forthcoming advances.

A factoid:  Not many people realize that white LED's are fluorescent devices.  They replace the mercury vapor excitation with blue LED excitation.  Much off the efficiency gains in recent years had to do with developing better phosphors.


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## cathead (Mar 27, 2015)

RJSakowski said:


> When I did a complete remodel of our kitchen some nine years ago, I elected to go with LED lighting.  It was cutting edge technology at the thime.  Although they were more efficient at the time than halogen, they had ways to go.
> 
> Today, LED is arguably the most efficient lighting available, running in the 140 lumen/watt range.  Often, efficiency is rated in terms of efficacy.  LED lighting is fundamentally different than other lighting in that it projects the light in one direction, typically a 120 degree cone, as opposed to nearly 360 degree radiation of incandescent and fluorescent lights. Back light has to be reflected to be useful in most case and there are losses associated with that.   Because the LED's provide a greater percentage of useful light, their output seems higher than it actually is.  They use efficacy to describe the useful light output.  I used warm white LED's, (~3000K) for ambiance but the cool white are the most efficient.
> 
> ...


RJS, 

Yes, I see that you can get 4 foot LED lights that fit in the fluorescent units I have.  The fluorescent transformers
are some thousands of volts I believe so do they transform it down again and then feed the LED strip?  It would
be more efficient if one started with 120 volts rather than the high voltage or does one have to rewire the fixture
and remove the ballasts?  I would think that would be the sensible thing to do if I were building these bulbs myself...
If one has to go through two transformers to get to the voltage the LED needs, it wouldn't be the most efficient.


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## rgray (Mar 27, 2015)

The 4 foot leds I put in my florescents are rated for 85-277 volts. Supposedly you can leave the ballast in...I removed them from my fixtures...If your going for efficiency...no use powering the unneeded ballast.


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## RJSakowski (Mar 27, 2015)

cathead said:


> RJS,
> 
> Yes, I see that you can get 4 foot LED lights that fit in the fluorescent units I have.  The fluorescent transformers
> are some thousands of volts I believe so do they transform it down again and then feed the LED strip?  It would
> ...


I don't believe that the old ballasts are thousands of volts.  Their function is to limit the current in the tube.  The starting circuit heats a filament to vaporize the mercury and start current flow in the tube.  It switches out when the tube fires.  I haven't measured actual voltage supplied to the tube so I can't say anything definitive about it.  HF lights may be a different kettle of fish.  They do not use the starter circuit.  I have never measured voltage on those either.  From the description of the LED Supply lamp, they give about a 30% increase in efficiency over the fluorescent fixture.  I would expect the fluorescent manufacturers would spec. overall efficiency as would concerned energy conservationists.  If that is the case. the quoted values are in line with what I would expect.  (fluorescent's have about an 80-90lumen/watt efficiency, cool white  LED's about 100-140 lumen/watt). I would expect that the drop-in replacements have a switching type driver and are able to accommodate  a fairly wide range of voltages.  I would call them up and ask.  They have  very knowledgeable tech support.

If I were going to build my own, I would use the 12 volt strips instead.  You can use the fixture as the base.  Strip out the guts of the old fluorescent fixture. Use an aluminum strip for mounting.  You can also mount directly to the fixture but the impairs any future maintenance.  Purchase a suitable switching power supply.  DigiKey right in your back yard is a good source  is Jameco in California.  We machinsts are very capable of making any required mountings, adapters, etc.  I did bounce lighting in our kitchen with a double row of these strip lights and it does an excellent job. 

For alternatives, there are some interesting LED's out there.  I have a couple of CXA 1310's that will put out almost 2000 lumens from a single 6mm disk.  The cost was reasonable, under $10 as I recall.  I purchased a LuxDrive 700 ma Flexblock for driving them.  In terms of $/lumen, probably about as good as you will find.  We have the automotive headlighting technology to thank for that.  The big problem with these is that they are blindingly bright.  For area lighting, you would need to design some sort of diffuser.

Bob


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## ogberi (Mar 27, 2015)

One item that should be in every shop is a battery backed emergency light.   They aren't expensive, and easy to install.  My shop has one small window, and at night it's pitch black in there.  Being able to see if the power goes out is important for safety.


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## VSAncona (Mar 27, 2015)

I recently replaced all the T12 fluorescent tubes in my shop with LEDs. All of my fixtures were hardwired and the magnetic ballasts were starting to fail after some 30-40 years. The retrofit was pretty simple -- just bypass the ballast (you can remove the ballast or leave it in, but no power goes to it) and wire the tombstones directly. It took about 5-10 minutes per fixture. The light is great and the best part is no more annoying buzzing from the dying ballasts.

One thing to note is that your tombstones have to be the non-shunted variety. I think most of the older T12 fixtures are this type, but if you're replacing T8 bulbs, you may have to replace the tombstones as well. They aren't very expensive though.


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## cathead (Mar 27, 2015)

OK SUPER!   AND they would start instantly if the shop was cold I  would surmise.  So where would be a good source for
some 4 foot LED replacements?


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## VSAncona (Mar 27, 2015)

They're not affected by temperature, but they do take a second to turn on. I'm used to it now.

I bought mine on sale at 1000bulbs.com, but the ones I bought are no longer in stock.  Amazon sells them as well.


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## cathead (Mar 27, 2015)

VSAncona said:


> They're not affected by temperature, but they do take a second to turn on. I'm used to it now.
> 
> I bought mine on sale at 1000bulbs.com, but the ones I bought are no longer in stock.  Amazon sells them as well.



OK,  Thanks for the help.  Burt


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## roadie33 (Mar 27, 2015)

VSAncona said:


> They're not affected by temperature, but they do take a second to turn on. I'm used to it now.
> 
> I bought mine on sale at 1000bulbs.com, but the ones I bought are no longer in stock.  Amazon sells them as well.




What is the model number on them and how well do they light?


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## VSAncona (Mar 27, 2015)

These are the ones that I bought first:
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/113414/FOREST-MT8W09.html

They were cheap (around $10 a tube) but they are only rated for 30,000 hours. The color temp is 4100K, which is equivalent to cool white tubes. They're not bad colorwise, but after I put them in I needed a couple more tubes and I tried these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PG7QIGW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They're 5000K and the light seems more white. If I had it to do over again, I would probably go for the 5000K LEDs for a shop. I'm no lighting expert though, so you might want to get some other opinions as well.


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## roadie33 (Mar 27, 2015)

Those Amazon tubes are not cheap.


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## roadie33 (Mar 27, 2015)

Found some on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PC-LED-T...054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a300519e


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## Holescreek (Mar 27, 2015)

We found replacement 4' LED bulbs at Home Depot last weekend.


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## RJSakowski (Mar 27, 2015)

VSAncona said:


> These are the ones that I bought first:
> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/113414/FOREST-MT8W09.html
> 
> They were cheap (around $10 a tube) but they are only rated for 30,000 hours. The color temp is 4100K, which is equivalent to cool white tubes. They're not bad colorwise, but after I put them in I needed a couple more tubes and I tried these:
> ...


An interesting vendor.  I'll add it to my collection. Thanks for sharing, VS


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## Dougsshed (Mar 28, 2015)

cathead said:


> With the influx of the new LED lighting, I expect some of you have already added some of the
> new high efficiency lights.  My shop has mostly 4 foot fluorescent lights so will be slowly
> phasing them out in favor of the new more efficient and environmently friendly lighting.
> I just bought a test under counter light by Feit and installed it over my kitchen stove.  It
> ...


 
 I recently built a shed within my large shed because the main shed has no insulation whatsoever. It can reach over 40 deg Celsius in there. So I partitioned an area, built stud walls and a ceiling.
Doing this allowed me to get rid of the old 4' twin flouros and replace them with 12w LED downlights. These new light have several advantages:
They are daylight temperature so give me a natural tone in an artificial environment. This is important when seeing the right colour matters.
They have no warm-up time like flouros.
They last just about forever. By the time they die, there will be a much better option probably.
They cost almost nothing to run. I have 16 12w lights which, if I were to run them all, is a total 192w. The flouros I had to cover the same area with poorer quality light were 18 x 40w twin fittings that totalled  1440w and that doesn't allow for the start up charge that flouros use.

I have been advised that, if you want to put LED tubes in your existing fittings, they won't last as long as LED flouros in the fitting that is designed for them.

In all, the LED downlights are fantastic. It was an excellent investment. My eyes don't get so tired and I can see my work detail much better. And I save plenty on the power.

Hope this helps. If you wanted to see photos, I can arrange this for you.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Mar 29, 2015)

i saw those 4ft tubes in home depot too $21 per tube for a Cree brand drop in, which is a great deal imo.


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## rgray (Apr 24, 2015)

Got my first 8 foot T8 led bulbs last week. With only one bulb per fixture they are much brighter than 2 florescent bulbs were. And they are 40 watt
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261832625796?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## cathead (Apr 24, 2015)

If you use the drop in kind of LED bulbs, the ballasts are still in the circuit causing inefficiency.  It would be
much better to get the kind that does not include the ballast in the circuit with 120 volts applied directly
to the ends of the bulbs.  Drop in is easy but maybe not the best way to go in my opinion.


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## TOOLMASTER (Jan 1, 2016)

I went with bulbs..more for less


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## mattthemuppet2 (Jan 1, 2016)

you can make your own relatively easily and for not that much money. I made these yesterday in about 4h for roughly $5 each.


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## Jmkimsey88 (Jan 13, 2016)

At one point every light in my part of the shop was out of action.  (I blame this on the EDM situated directly behind me.)  The only light I had
to work with was an old, but extremely hardy lamp attached to the lathe itself.  Spooky but a nice change of scenery,  Hazard pay would have been
nice though.


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## bfd (Oct 25, 2017)

I had 15 4 ft  2 bulb t-8 fixtures replaced all bulbs with led's from home depot  worked great just as  bright lots less draw. replaced all bulbs in my house with led's power bill down bill


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## magicniner (Nov 19, 2017)

RJSakowski said:


> I don't believe that the old ballasts are thousands of volts.



They aren't "thousands of volts". They are inductors which briefly generate thousands of volts when the current through them is broken or initiated, which is what the starters do after their heating cycle, if the tubes then conduct the starters do not function further.

It's Physics Jim ;-)


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## pdentrem (Nov 19, 2017)

Have two of these to replace the two double 40 watt fluorescent sets I had before. Got them at Costco. Made to hang from the ceiling and have 120 volt plug on the ends. They are much better light and start in the cold.


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## jocat54 (Nov 19, 2017)

I bought these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N7HAC6Z/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&th=1 and have been very happy with them other than a lightening strike took them out about 2 weeks after I installed them and had to replace them again..
Really easy to do (10 minutes or so a fixture) If your old fixtures are T12 your good to go on the tombstones (unshunted)


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## Scruffy (Nov 20, 2017)

I put 15 4 ft 4500 lump lights in our 40 by 48 building. You can read a bandaid rapper at 10 ft in the worst corner. Trusses are 12 ft from floor put 3 lights on every other truss.
Thanks ron


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## bill stupak (Nov 22, 2017)

I purchased these  https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai...EwjgvvbcytPXAhUL7oMKHQHIAYkQ2CkI9gIwAA&adurl=  to replace all my florescent shop lights. I have 2 installed and already it is much better.

Bill


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## Blackjackjacques (Nov 23, 2017)

Today's LEDs are incredible and pretty much rendered incandescent bulbs obsolete.  One advantage provided by conventional incandescent bulbs was the low temperature color.  LEDs do offer low temp (2400K , etc) but more often than not, you will see 4000K.  The advantage of the low temp bulbs, leaning towards the red versus the high temperature blue, is that the pupil is less sensitive to the lower temperature and stays open wide, while the blues will cause the aperature to contract.  While there is perhaps greater contrast with the higher temperature, the pupil will let less light in. So you have a bit of a trade off.   I use the low temp LEDS for general indoor illumination (along with yellow walls and white ceiling) and where I will be working for long durations, reading, computer, work bench - however, I may supplement with a slightly hotter task light where needed - say perhaps when working with small parts.  I also notice that my forehead seems more relaxed (scrunching from glare) with the low temps over the high temps, and I can perhaps delay the need for Botox treatment.  I like the 4000K for outdoor flood lighting, say motion detection ltg at a distance.


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## magu (Nov 29, 2017)

As purchased, my garage had 1 hanging incandescent (and no outlets... seriously, none), I didn't want to go the tube florescent route because I really like the beam construction of the roof, and didn't want to obscure it more than necessary. I bought two of these: Hypericon LED floodlight and have been really happy with the one I have installed thus far.


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## ACHiPo (Nov 29, 2017)

magu said:


> As purchased, my garage had 1 hanging incandescent (and no outlets... seriously, none), I didn't want to go the tube florescent route because I really like the beam construction of the roof, and didn't want to obscure it more than necessary. I bought two of these: Hypericon LED floodlight and have been really happy with the one I have installed thus far.
> 
> 
> View attachment 248347


Wow that's pretty darned bright!  Bet it makes for some long shadows?


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## magu (Nov 29, 2017)

ACHiPo said:


> Wow that's pretty darned bright!  Bet it makes for some long shadows?


Yeah, that's an unavoidable downside. It's still worlds better than anything I've had before lol. I have one more I plan on putting in the corner that is out of view to the left. Ideally, I'd like to get two more and put one in each corner.


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## RJSakowski (Nov 29, 2017)

The comparison of low temperature vs. high temperature LED lighting is interesting. I personally prefer the 27000K or 3000K LED's for living spaces but I use the 4000K lighting for work areas.

Most of us us are old enough to remember a world where incandescent lighting was predominant.  Some may even be old enough to have lived with kerosene lamps.  We became accustomed the warmer tones illuminated by those sources.  I have heard many people complain about the "glare" coming from fluorescent fixtures.

It parallels the complaint about the harsh sound of digital music, in comparison with the "natural" sound of vinyl with all of the hum, wow, flutter and narrow bandwidth even though digital music is technically a more accurate rendition.

There is one factor about LED lighting though.  "white" light can be generated in two ways.  Red, green, and blue light made up the white light seen on our old CRT monitors.   However there is no yellow in that spectrum.   Nor many of the other hues.  Combining those three colors in various proportions makes up all the remaining colors by our perception.

White LED's are basically fluorescent devices which use the blue LED plus a yellow phosphor and a smattering of othe phosphors to make up what we perceive as white light.  They are not providing an accurate rendition of true color though.  The metric that they use to describe this ability to accurately render color is the CRI or color rendition index.  A perfect render would be 100 but most white LED's fall in the 65 to 85 range. 

Sunlight and incandescent bulbs, on the other hand are full spectrum light sources.    All wavelengths in the visible spectrum are represented.  An incandescent bulb works on the basis of radiation from a heated body and the curve favors the red over the blue portion of the spectrum which is why there is a warm yellowish tone.  Sunlight is also radiation from a heated body but in its case the temperature is around 10,000ºC  and the light appears more bluish.


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## magu (Nov 29, 2017)

lol, some of you folks are making me forget which forum I'm on. Another passion of mine is reef keeping and lighting is the biggest factor and topic of discussion in that world: "how to replicate the sun on another part of the globe in a little box in your living room without owning your own nuclear reactor"


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## gaston (Nov 29, 2017)

replaced all my worn out 4 footers with leds from amazon 24 bulbs with tomeones 177.00 , (7.68$ ea) do iy easy install (rewire one end, wack out the ballasts install new tubes allmost a no brainer


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## uncle harry (Nov 29, 2017)

RJSakowski said:


> I don't believe that the old ballasts are thousands of volts.  Their function is to limit the current in the tube.  The starting circuit heats a filament to vaporize the mercury and start current flow in the tube.  It switches out when the tube fires.  I haven't measured actual voltage supplied to the tube so I can't say anything definitive about it.  HF lights may be a different kettle of fish.  They do not use the starter circuit.  I have never measured voltage on those either.  From the description of the LED Supply lamp, they give about a 30% increase in efficiency over the fluorescent fixture.  I would expect the fluorescent manufacturers would spec. overall efficiency as would concerned energy conservationists.  If that is the case. the quoted values are in line with what I would expect.  (fluorescent's have about an 80-90lumen/watt efficiency, cool white  LED's about 100-140 lumen/watt). I would expect that the drop-in replacements have a switching type driver and are able to accommodate  a fairly wide range of voltages.  I would call them up and ask.  They have  very knowledgeable tech support.
> 
> If I were going to build my own, I would use the 12 volt strips instead.  You can use the fixture as the base.  Strip out the guts of the old fluorescent fixture. Use an aluminum strip for mounting.  You can also mount directly to the fixture but the impairs any future maintenance.  Purchase a suitable switching power supply.  DigiKey right in your back yard is a good source  is Jameco in California.  We machinsts are very capable of making any required mountings, adapters, etc.  I did bounce lighting in our kitchen with a double row of these strip lights and it does an excellent job.
> 
> ...



The classic starter fluorescents connect the end filaments in series through the single winding of the ballast.upon starting. This heats the filaments which are coated with chemical oxides that are very efficient in emitting electrons. The starter uses a bi-metal switch that gets hot and opens the series circuit.  This bi-metal switch in encapsulated in a glass envelope which is filled with a rare gas, argon, which glows and keeps the bi-metal switch heated and open. When the switch opens, the inductive ballast's magnetic field collapses rapidly thus producing an inductive spike of very high voltage which initiates conduction through the the argon/mercury in the tube and permits using line voltage to produce UV radiation which excites the internal phosphors thus producing light. Thousands of volts are employed when powering neon signs and has been provided by core & coil transformers like those used in classic oil burner furnaces.  The newer neon power technology use solid state transformers that run at 20,000 hertz to produce the high voltage.


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## Blackjackjacques (Nov 29, 2017)

ACHiPo said:


> Wow that's pretty darned bright!  Bet it makes for some long shadows?


I think that is the camera flash - which in itself is pretty impressive given the dark surfaces.


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## silence dogood (Nov 29, 2017)

RJSakowski said:


> The comparison of low temperature vs. high temperature LED lighting is interesting. I personally prefer the 27000K or 3000K LED's for living spaces but I use the 4000K lighting for work areas.
> 
> Most of us us are old enough to remember a world where incandescent lighting was predominant.  Some may even be old enough to have lived with kerosene lamps.  We became accustomed the warmer tones illuminated by those sources.  I have heard many people complain about the "glare" coming from fluorescent fixtures.
> 
> ...


GE puts out a LED fixture that is called "Enbrighten".   Basically, it has two sets of LEDs, one for a cool  and the other for warm.  A switch can set it for one or the other or both.   I mounted one above my lathe and leave it on the daylight (both LEDs) because I can see my work better.  I even got one for my wife for her sewing.


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## magu (Nov 29, 2017)

Blackjackjacques said:


> I think that is the camera flash - which in itself is pretty impressive given the dark surfaces.




That picture was actually taken with the flash disabled. The beam work and single point light are a horrible combination for getting the nice even light people strive for


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## Blackjackjacques (Nov 30, 2017)

magu said:


> That picture was actually taken with the flash disabled. The beam work and single point light are a horrible combination for getting the nice even light people strive for


Wow - that is one bright light.   I also have high vaulted ceilings and some beam work - although not as impressive or extensive as you.  For my lab, I went ahead and painted the ceilings an off flat white and hit the walls with a yellow (Behr parchment) on 4-inch t/g cedar.  I'm also using pendant fixtures with dimmable low temp LED bulbs.  The fixtures radiate above as well as below -- providing a pleasant mix of diffused reflective light.  My eyes seem happy and my pupils are opened wide, and I notice that I do not need my glasses nearly so much.


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## chips&more (Nov 30, 2017)

RJSakowski said:


> Sunlight is also radiation from a heated body but in its case the temperature is around 10,000ºC  and the light appears more bluish.



I thought light from the sun was at 5,778K or 5,505C° and was white in color (ref: CIE curve)…Dave


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## RJSakowski (Nov 30, 2017)

Dave, I stand corrected.  Bad memory.  The temperature was 10,000ºF which is about 5,800K.  I should have verified.

Sunlight is white but a blue-white in comparison to incandescent light. 

Here is an interesting discussion of the color of the sun. 

WARNING!  This has absolutely nothing to do with machining and very little with machine shop lighting so enter at your own risk!
http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/colour/Tspectrum.html


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## Bob Korves (Nov 30, 2017)

Blackjackjacques said:


> My eyes seem happy and my pupils are opened wide, and I notice that I do not need my glasses nearly so much.


Warm color temperature and dimmer lighting is easy on the eyes.  Focusing ability is a separate issue with different solutions.  As the lighting gets gets brighter, the iris' in our eyes close down to allow less light to enter.  As it gets darker, the iris' open up to allow enough light for us to see.  A small aperture, like in a pinhole camera, gives the best focusing ability over a larger range of distances.  This is called "depth of field."  As the iris opens up, the depth of field diminishes, and things are only in useful focus over a limited depth of field.  We older people are usually pretty aware of having to move the text to just the correct distance for us to be able to read it.  This comes from the eyes not being able to adjust their focal length as well as when we were young.  However, increasing the brightness gives us a better depth of field, and our arms do not need to be so long to read without our bifocal prescription.  So, increased light improves the physical ability of our eyes to focus, but may also become uncomfortably bright at the same time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_field


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## Blackjackjacques (Nov 30, 2017)

Bob Korves said:


> Warm color temperature and dimmer lighting is easy on the eyes.  Focusing ability is a separate issue with different solutions.  As the lighting gets gets brighter, the iris' in our eyes close down to allow less light to enter.  As it gets darker, the iris' open up to allow enough light for us to see.  A small aperture, like in a pinhole camera, gives the best focusing ability over a larger range of distances.  This is called "depth of field."  As the iris opens up, the depth of field diminishes, and things are only in useful focus over a limited depth of field.  We older people are usually pretty aware of having to move the text to just the correct distance for use to be able to read it.  This comes from the eyes not being able to adjust their focal length as well as when we were young.  However, increasing the brightness gives us a better depth of field, and our arms do not need to be so long to read without our bifocal prescription.  So, increased light improves the physical ability of our eyes to focus, but may also become uncomfortably bright at the same time.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_field



I agree - my thing is that I prefer increased light but in the yellow vice blue part of the spectrum and that the smaller aperture is caused my aperture controls in an attempt to reclaim a better depth of field vice a forced small aperture owed to blue light.


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## eugene13 (Nov 30, 2017)

I got mine from 1000Bulbs.com, PLT-10019CS, you have to bypass the ballast, they're bright and the price is right $111.84 plus shipping for 16


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## bfd (Nov 30, 2017)

also just changed my machine lights (lathe and mill) to led lights. good light but more blue in color. but they should last for a long time bill


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## MARVIN GARDENS (Nov 30, 2017)

I am in the middle of rebuild of my work area.  I have a long two car garage.  I am in the process of insulating the walls and ceiling.  My next step will be to sister all of the ceiling joists as none span the width of my garage and I am afraid that they won't support any weight.  I am going to install 6" LED cans in the ceiling.  The cans will illuminate the general area and a concentration of them will be placed over my main workbench area which is opposite of the garage door.  A local medical building was being gutted and as I was driving by I noticed some lighting piled up outside.  I talked to the foreman and he said that everything in the pile was to be thrown away and that I could help myself to any of it.  I came home with two large lights from a surgical suite.  They each run along ten-foot tracks with articulated arms so that light can be placed where needed.  They are heavy, hence the strengthening of the ceiling joists.  I also picked up three wall mounted surgical lights which also have articulating arms.  I will place them where needed as the project continues.  The ceiling mounted lights run off of a control box which electrifies the tracks the lights travel down.

I am going to keep one florescent fixture, a four-foot model with four bulbs.  It was my grandfather's workbench light.  I am going to convert it and the wall mount surgical lights to LED.

Before I'm done I will also replace my failing garage doors with new insulated ones, install new windows, and add a split AC system.  The temperature in my garage seems to always be either 110 degrees or freezing.

I believe that LED is the way to go and am using it in any light replacement that I do around our home.  My wife really liked our existing exterior lighting so, instead of replacing it, I reconfigured all of it to LED.  I haven't had to change an exterior light bulb in the last two years.

Best regards.

Bob


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## magu (Dec 1, 2017)

That's a great find on the surgical lights.


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