# Who Makes A Vise Between China & Kurt?



## Pinresto

Hi,
 I bought my vise from lms when I bought my mill. It's a 3" Kurt style Chinese vise. It wasn't their most expensive nor their cheapest. I think it was $140ish. I'm not happy with it. The right side of the jaws touch and the left side are still 1/16" apart. I made some adjustments and its a bit better but it's still not right. I can't afford  $300 for a used Kurt at the moment. Well I probably could but I have other things higher on the list of priorities. Plus I'd like to buy a new vise when I upgrade. Is there any other quality 3" vises at a lower price point? Something around $200 new would be ideal. Any recommendations on a quality 3" kurt style vise under $250?


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## JimDawson

Maybe you could do some machining on the vice and use the $250 on new toys..er tools.


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## chips&more

When you close the vise tight, do the jaws clamp with no space? If so, then is the moveable jaw just sloppy/loose from side to side? You can put set screws in the moveable jaw where the jaw tracks on each side and adjust the setscrews to tighten up the translation/travel of the jaw…Good Luck, Dave.


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## T Bredehoft

The 4" China vise that came as part of a package with my PM25 mill from Quality Machine was within .001 parallel jaws, does not rise on clamping, and may have cost about $80.  I had to mill the bottom flat, but I sort of expected that. It took .007 to clean it up, hollow in the middle from normal shrinkage. I put the ways (upside down) on parallels and skinned it off.


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## tomh

Hmmmm  1/16" is not good at all!   You need to contact LMS and let them know your not happy and see what they will do about it.  

You can get a kurt clone fron enco,  for  example mod #425-7240  for $100.27  /  $80.21 after a 20%  off+ free shipping  that will give you extra $$$$ to spend on tooling,  and enco will replace it if you find a problem with it without a hassle.    that's been my experience.  
Tomh
































s


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## sanddan

Per the OP's title...Who Makes A Vise Between China & Kurt?..... Glacern is the only one I know of oft hand. The castings come from offshore but they are machined and assembled in southern Ca. My 5" was $399 and is a very nice piece. I also have a used Kurt 6" D60 vise that is nice but does have that old vise patina. Glacern makes a 4" version but not a 3" so you might have to look for used.


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## JeepsAndGuns

I have a 6 inch shars vise and I am really happy with it. I have no other experience with any other milling vices what so ever, but it seems very sturdy and well made. Fit and finish are great. 
Here is their 3 inch version.  http://www.shars.com/products/toolh...2-95-lock-down-precision-milling-machine-vise


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## sgisler

I have two of the 6" Shars and frequently use them in tandem on long parts. Been very happy with their quality. Have thought about having them ground to be matched (in bed height) but haven't gotten around to it. And they only vary by a couple thou. 


Stan,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## toolman49

G'Day,
Taiwanese made Vertex vices are pretty good quality for the price, not the best , but certainly better than most entry level Chinese stuff.
Regards,
Martin


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## nobog

How about this one:
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/weekly_special.php


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## Pinresto

JimDawson said:


> Maybe you could do some machining on the vice and use the $250 on new toys..er tools.



I'm a toddler when it come to machining stuff. I think making this vise accurate is out of my reach at the moment. Besides, from what I can tell the track that the moveable jaws slide in are not cut square. It looks like the vise was cocked 5-6 degrees when the milled the slots. Hope that makes sense.  Makes sense in my head......


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## Pinresto

chips&more said:


> When you close the vise tight, do the jaws clamp with no space? If so, then is the moveable jaw just sloppy/loose from side to side? You can put set screws in the moveable jaw where the jaw tracks on each side and adjust the setscrews to tighten up the translation/travel of the jaw…Good Luck, Dave.


No, the left side still has a 32nd gap unless I really crank on it. I put some shims behind the left side of the moveable jaws. It's much better now and functional. It's useable for what I do but a better quality vise is in my future none the less.


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## Pinresto

tomh said:


> Hmmmm  1/16" is not good at all!   You need to contact LMS and let them know your not happy and see what they will do about it.
> 
> You can get a kurt clone fron enco,  for  example mod #425-7240  for $100.27  /  $80.21 after a 20%  off+ free shipping  that will give you extra $$$$ to spend on tooling,  and enco will replace it if you find a problem with it without a hassle.    that's been my experience.
> Tomh
> 
> I'm not going to bother lms. I've had it for a year now and been using it while I learn. It was my first millimg machine vise and I didn't know what I was looking at. I've learned a lot in the last year. LMS has always been excelent to me. I'm sure if I would have said something they would have taken care of me.
> I've moved out of country so the free shipping with enco does not apply to me. The 20% off deal I use often though.
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## Charles Spencer

I'd definitely bring it to the vendor's attention.  I can assure you that they do not want negative publicity.  Sometimes things just slip through.  Since they are a reputable dealer I'd imagine that they would be willing to exchange it.

For what it's worth, I received a Shars 4" milling vise today and just finished cleaning it up.  For a little over $100 (with shipping) it's not bad.  Certainly no gaps like you mention.


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## Wreck™Wreck

Soft Jaws.
Make some jaws from easily machinable material and bolt them on, place a thin parallel at the bottom of the face, close the vice and machine them in place. They can be machined with steps, round bores with a boring head, grooves and any other shape that you can accomplish with the tools at hand. This removes virtually all of the error, if you remove and reinstall the vice just skim cut them again.


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## Uglydog

Check out Eron.
They are Japanese made.
I've been pleased with mine.
http://www.erontool.com/

Daryl
MN


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## Pinresto

Wreck™Wreck said:


> Soft Jaws.
> Make some jaws from easily machinable material and bolt them on, place a thin parallel at the bottom of the face, close the vice and machine them in place. They can be machined with steps, round bores with a boring head, grooves and any other shape that you can accomplish with the tools at hand. This removes virtually all of the error, if you remove and reinstall the vice just skim cut them again.



Oh, that's simple. I never thought of that. Thanks


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## Pinresto

Charles Spencer said:


> I'd definitely bring it to the vendor's attention.  I can assure you that they do not want negative publicity.  Sometimes things just slip through.  Since they are a reputable dealer I'd imagine that they would be willing to exchange it.
> 
> For what it's worth, I received a Shars 4" milling vise today and just finished cleaning it up.  For a little over $100 (with shipping) it's not bad.  Certainly no gaps like you mention.



LMS has no fault in this. Had I contacted them shortly after I bought it they would have bent over backwards to make me happy. They always do. They didn't make the vise and I never brought it to their attention. Partly because I was out of the country for the couple months right after received it and partly because I was a super noob. We all know what we're buying when we use enco, shars, LMS, etc. it's (mostly) stuff made by the 100's of thousands and cheap enough for the hobbiest. China probably measures every 10,000th vise they make, LMS might measure a couple out of every batch they get and I was supposed to inspect mine. I didn't, it's was months ago and I'm moving on. If someone thinks my problem with a $120ish China vise is bad publicity for LMS they need to think harder. This same vise could have been sent out to any of the other dozens of retailers who sell this vise. This is bad publicity for China made tooling.


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## kennyv

FWIW   a good used one  or  perhaps a Homge  Vertex   im sure there are a few others (  Taiwan made) Im in the market too  for a mill vice ....

http://www.homge.com.tw/vices.html

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/VisesHighPrecision.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400967067618?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

that's the one im gona buy if I cant find a good one ( good used)  after  seeing the economy models im not so impressed
im getting a little tired of poke and hope china stuff  .. some stuff  i guess is ok some stuff  for machine aint worth if its gona have run out and or mal function break...  bad casting  ect.........
im sure yull get many opinions  on this .. HTH


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## wachuko

I just got this one... should be here this weekend.  I hope it is decent enough for what I am doing...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Super-Loc...52967455&tpos=top&ttype=price&talgo=undefined


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## Pinresto

They all look nice in the pics. The problem is your rolling the dice unless you buy a big dollar vise. With China you never know until you get it in your hands. That's why I'm so leery to pull the trigger. I'm out of the country for the next 3 years so returning something is not an easy option. Let me know how you like your vise Kennyv and wachuko.


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## tmarks11

sanddan said:


> Per the OP's title...Who Makes A Vise Between China & Kurt?..... Glacern is the only one I know of oft hand. The castings come from offshore but they are machined and assembled in southern Ca.


That might have been true in the past, but they have had an upheaval in personnel, and the business doesn't seem to be run the same as it used to. Several recent threads on various machinists sites have called this into question.  YMMV, past performance, etc etc.

Conquest makes an awesome 5" vise (mini-magnum), which is the one that Tormach relabels.  But it isn't any cheaper than a Kurt, and might be too large for your table (since you were shopping for a 3").

Wait for a Kurt to be on sale in Enco Sales catalog, and then wait until you can stack a 20% off coupon on it, and you get a US price for the price of an offshore one.

EDIT: since you are looking for a small vise, this might not work.  I don't believe I have seen them ever have the Kurt 4" on sale, although you can always use the semi-monthly 20% sale to buy one.  With a 20% off coupon, you could get the US Made Kurt 4" for near the same price as the Glacern 4" (Taiwan or China made, nobody really knows).

BTW, the Conquest mini-mag 5" vise actually has the same footprint as the Kurt 4".


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## gr8legs

I found a cute little whizbang from a machinist on eBay that may help, presuming the fixed jaw on your vise can be made both parallel to the X-axis and perpendicular to the table -

They describe it as "*Self-Adjusting, Multi-Directional Vise Jaw Insert*" and it's designed to allow you to securely clamp objects with non-parallel surfaces in a milling vise.  I got one when I was clamping aluminum T-bar extrusions that are a bit tapered from top to bottom. Works like a charm.  It should compensate for the gap in your vise.

Search eBay for the keyword 'quadrallel'. 

I have no connection with this seller other than as a satisfied customer.

Stu


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## wachuko

gr8legs said:


> I found a cute little whizbang from a machinist on eBay that may help, presuming the fixed jaw on your vise can be made both parallel to the X-axis and perpendicular to the table -
> 
> They describe it as "*Self-Adjusting, Multi-Directional Vise Jaw Insert*" and it's designed to allow you to securely clamp objects with non-parallel surfaces in a milling vise.  I got one when I was clamping aluminum T-bar extrusions that are a bit tapered from top to bottom. Works like a charm.  It should compensate for the gap in your vise.
> 
> Search eBay for the keyword 'quadrallel'.
> 
> I have no connection with this seller other than as a satisfied customer.
> 
> Stu



This one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/QUADRALLEL-...ort-CNC-Vise-Vice-Jaw-Fits-KURT-/201248100482

Neat!  FYI - Requires a 6" vise.


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## TomS

Let us know


wachuko said:


> I just got this one... should be here this weekend.  I hope it is decent enough for what I am doing...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Super-Loc...52967455&tpos=top&ttype=price&talgo=undefined



I'd be interested to know what you think about the quality and accuracy of this vice.  I'm looking for a decent 4" CNC vice and don't want to refi my house to get one.

Thanks,


Tom S


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## gr8legs

wachuko said:


> This one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/QUADRALLEL-...ort-CNC-Vise-Vice-Jaw-Fits-KURT-/201248100482
> 
> Neat!  FYI - Requires a 6" vise.



Yeah, that's the item. 

I just measured the one I got and it's 4" wide - and I think you can use it in any size vise since it gimbals around the center bearing ball and you can just place it where you need it.

Stu


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## JimDawson

That is pretty cool, I need to make one!  Just happen to have some 1 inch balls on the shelf.


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## roadie33

Been looking for a new Mill vise and since Enco has so graciously given us 20% off and Free shipping I found this vise and am wondering if anyone has one or if it will work on my G0704.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=24730494&PMAKA=328-0152


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## wachuko

TomS said:


> Let us know
> 
> 
> I'd be interested to know what you think about the quality and accuracy of this vice.  I'm looking for a decent 4" CNC vice and don't want to refi my house to get one.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Tom S



Got it yesterday... this thing is solid.  Let me know if there is anything you want me to measure or additional photos.  But very happy with it.  And looks like they discounted an additional 10% from what I paid for it... 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Super-Loc...US-Shipping-/171865479601?hash=item2803fb19b1


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## TomS

wachuko said:


> Got it yesterday... this thing is solid.  Let me know if there is anything you want me to measure or additional photos.  But very happy with it.  And looks like they discounted an additional 10% from what I paid for it...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Super-Loc...US-Shipping-/171865479601?hash=item2803fb19b1



Thanks for the info.  Have you measured it to determine if it is flat and square?

Tom S


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## wachuko

Tom, 

I have not.  I will spend some time this weekend doing just that.


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## wachuko

Tom,

What do you need me to validate?  I am new to this...so patience with me 

I used the steel squares that I just received and made sure that it was squared with the table... clamped it, check that it was still squared with the table.  Ran the test dial... everything checks out great.  Let me know what you want me to measure and I will snap a short video to share...


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## TomS

I'm mostly interested in knowing if the sides are square and the top and bottom are parallel to each other.

Thanks for your time.

Tom S


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## wachuko

TomS said:


> I'm mostly interested in knowing if the sides are square and the top and bottom are parallel to each other.
> 
> Thanks for your time.
> 
> Tom S



Sides are squared... that I checked with both a test indicator and by placing the steel squares against it with the mill table.

How do I measured that the top and bottom are parallel to each other?  Place it on its side and use the steel squares and test dial as well?


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## tmarks11

Put a DTI on the spindle and drag it across the table to measure how much error is in the tram of your mill's head.

Then mount the vise, and drag the DTI across the floor of the vise, and than the top of the fixed jaw.


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## kennyv

Know I may be a little late but a page back I  had posted that I was In in the market  for a mill vice too ...
anyways. I opted for the 5" Homge .Think  some one asked me to posts pics . well I just got around to open my new vice this week. The  one that I had  purchase for my PM932 Pdf . Dont know how it performs yet but  all in all I think its a good fit for this sized mill. Glad I didn't go with 6"  .Best I can see the vice is well made comes with certificate of inspection. Seeems sturdy and not overly bulky for my 9 x 32 mill
Hth


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## ddickey

How's that Homge working for you?


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## ddickey

How's that Homge working for you?


TomS said:


> Thanks for the info.  Have you measured it to determine if it is flat and square?
> 
> Tom S





kennyv said:


> Know I may be a little late but a page back I  had posted that I was In in the market  for a mill vice too ...
> anyways. I opted for the 5" Homge .Think  some one asked me to posts pics . well I just got around to open my new vice this week. The  one that I had  purchase for my PM932 Pdf . Dont know how it performs yet but  all in all I think its a good fit for this sized mill. Glad I didn't go with 6"  .Best I can see the vice is well made comes with certificate of inspection. Seeems sturdy and not overly bulky for my 9 x 32 mill
> Hth
> 
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## Subwayrocket

Homge ? Got mine from Matt atQuality Machine Tool


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## fixit

Check this out
http://hardwarefactorystore.com/hfs...ewless-mini-insert-vise-toolmaker-steel-0002/


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## TOOLMASTER

palmgren


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## gi_984

Enron as mentioned is very good.  Got a small one and like it.  I also recommend Glacern.  When I got my first vertical mill (Burke Millrite) I hunted all over for a good 5 inch vise that would fit it.  Six inch Kurts were a bit too big.  Bought the Glacern 5 inch during a holiday sale.  Very well made and accurately ground.  Sold it with the Millrite.  If I was looking for a cheaper quality alternative to Kurt I would buy another Glacern.


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## Uglydog

My go to is the my used 6inch Eron.
However, I've got a vintage matched pair of 6inch Cincys.
An abused Brown & Sharpe 6inch. And like new 1980s 8inch Jet mill vise.

Point is that while new is fun, you don't need to drop huge coin in order to do good work and have a good time.
Good used tooling equipment might be good enough.... 

Daryl
MN


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## Downunder Bob

TomS said:


> Thanks for the info.  Have you measured it to determine if it is flat and square?
> 
> Tom S


Looks nice, but is it flat and square?


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## Zamfir

I have also had good luck with the Shars 6" cnc vise. I will not hesitate to buy a second one when the time comes. They have smaller ones also. I picked this brand up due to a recommendation from a machinist friend who also uses them.


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## jjtgrinder

See a post I submitted a few years ago on a "VERTEX" vise.  (Search for "vertex vise" posted by me.)


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