# Newbie and the Bridgeport



## Ceej0103

Hey all,

Just found the community a few weeks ago and the guidance has been top notch.  My short story is I've always been fascinated with the manufacturing process (I actually own an IT Engineering firm....boring). After about 9 million episodes of How It's Made on YouTube, I landed on machining videos. Specifically, This Old Tony.  I had a fair amount of carpentry experience, but wanted to build things from metal.  Anything and everything.  I also wanted to weld.  So that's where it began.  First purchase was an old transformer TIG machine. I clocked about 50 hours of practice in the first month.  Mild steel, stainless, and aluminum.  Cool...now I'm an 'ok' welder.

Next was an auction where I was able to pick up a benchtop mill and a small 9x20 lathe.  That was about 3 months ago.  After 2 months and 3-4 week-long projects, I knew I wanted to go bigger.  I saw a Bridgeport and a Jet 1340 lathe sitting in the dark basement of a food processing plant.  They were in rough shape...I was hoping pictures made them look worse than they were.  Yep, I was wrong.  They're rust buckets.  But generally all the moving parts were free. 

So I drove the 3 hours to the factory and had them set on my trailer, strapped them down tight, and hauled them back to Holly Springs, NC.  I'm working out of my 2-car garage and the Bridgeport was sitting in the middle of it.  So by virtue of not wanting to walk around it for a month, I decided it was going to be my first target.  So here's the pictures of the machines as they sat:









						New Hobbyist with some TLC-required Machines
					

Hello everyone,  After watching This Old Tony and Abom79 for about 200 hours on YouTube, I decided it was a hobby I would enjoy.  So I jumped in head first. My current lathe and mill include an unknown make 9x20 lathe (only identifying marking says CF-918) and what I think is referred to as a...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




And here's some pictures (at the end of the thread) after everything was torn off and laid out. 









						[Solved] Moving the Ram
					

EDIT: I was able to find the answer with a few quick youtube searches.  I have a broken lever.   Was just going to delete this thread but cant find the option to do that.  Also found a bunch of content on freeing a stuck ram, which seems to be what I'll be doing for the next several days.  Time...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




And now the re-finishing/re-building journey begins.  I'll post in this thread as I move through that process.


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## pontiac428

You sure got a nice start in learning the hobby- those are great machines to get going on.  I am sure they will clean up nice.  Now get started, you have a lot of chips to make!


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## Ceej0103

So I just posted that initial introduction, but didn't want to slam it with too much information in the first post.  So I'm writing a second one to update the progress thus far.  We'll call this Day 3 as Day 1 and 2 were the teardown.

So here we go, Day 3.  I got the column moved out in to the driveway and carefully lowered it down on it's side.  When moving the machine around initially it had a ton of black crap coming out of the bottom.  Very fine crap.  How the heck would that have got there?  When I tipped it, it dawned on me that it was casting medium used when originally casting the column.  Wonder how old that stuff is.  The bottom was super rusty so I hit it with the ol' Dewalt cordless angle grinder, a wire wheel, and a 60v battery.  I cant say enough about that Dewalt angle grinder with the 60v platform.  It's a workhorse.  It's not the best de-rusting job I am capable of doing, but I'm going to hit it with some of that magical "heavily rusted" oil-based primer.  A couple coats should get the bottom in good shape.  And it won't see the moisture it did in that food processing plant, so I think that should be good enough.  

I also had the chance to start to clean up some of the parts.  I've decided to keep all the small stuff from the same 'regions' of the machine together in ziplock bags after they're cleaned and lightly oiled to avoid any surface rust while they want to go back in. I'm de-greasing and hitting what isn't a machined surface with the wire wheel on the bench grinder.  Before they go back in to the machine, I plan to polish everything up for that nice slip-and-slide finish. 

Tomorrow, I'm going to prime/paint the under-side of the column, and then stand it up to apply some paint stripper and get the entire column ready for prime/paint.  From there, I'm moving up to the turret and then ram. With those three pieces restored and assembled, I'll place the machine in it's location and bolt on items as they are restored.  I'm contemplating those nifty outrigger leveling feet that I saw on an H&W video.....anyone have them??


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## Nutfarmer

You are off to a good start


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## Dabbler

Well, you sure have your work cut out for you...  But you are starting with machines that have great bones.  

A friend of mine got a Clausing 13 40 that sat in the rain for 2 years (in Ontario), with a seized headstock.  After a bunch of elbow grease and a couple hundred$ in parts, he has one sweet lathe!  Hang in there - both of those machines have the ability to do great work once restored.


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## hwelecrepair

Lookin good.  As far as how things got there, you would be shocked at the things we find in Bridgeports when we tear them down to rebuild them.  

Jon


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## Ceej0103

Day 4...

My primer got dropped off this morning so I took a short break from pawing on my keyboard to go outside and put two coats on before lunch.  This primer for 'heavily rusted' metal works great....the stuff sticks like fly paper.  After that set up, I put a coat of black on it just to do it.  I wasn't going to paint it and just leave it primed, but I had to take it the extra mile.  Was a dumb idea to be honest.  Not only is it still tacky (3 hours later), my wife decided to do some flower bed work while it was drying and now it has grass particles stuck to it.  Oh well...it's the bottom.  Lesson learned, do the rest of the painting in the garage. 

I also wanted to see how this paint remover was going to work so I decided to hit the top face as an experiment.  It sucks.  Either it's a bad paint remover or this thing has some decent base coating/priming from back in the day that the remover just can't penetrate.  I wanted to avoid hitting the whole thing with the angle grinder as I hate making that mess in the driveway, but that's going to be my solution.  Wire wheel it in to submission.  I'll start that tomorrow after the bottom is dry and I can stand it back up. 

Lastly, I did some clean-up of the knee way that was face up.  I think they'll clean up nicely, but it's going to take a bunch of elbow grease.  I'm finding that a green scotch brite and purple power degreaser aren't going to take it to the finish line.  The built up debris down in the scraped areas (i think this is called checking??) just wont lift out.  I resorted to using some carb cleaner and a red scotch brite.  It started to make a difference, but more work to be done.


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## hwelecrepair

@Ceej0103 Looks like your wear seems pretty uniform across your ways.  Flaking marks dont look gone in some spaces.  Awesome.  

Be careful with scotch brite and too much elbow grease.  Depending on the accuracy you have/want, this could effect that.  That is the downside of flaking exposed ways like that, crap gets in them and it will/could transfer to the underside of your saddle ways.

Jon


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## Ceej0103

hwelecrepair said:


> @Ceej0103 Looks like your wear seems pretty uniform across your ways.  Flaking marks dont look gone in some spaces.  Awesome.
> 
> Be careful with scotch brite and too much elbow grease.  Depending on the accuracy you have/want, this could effect that.  That is the downside of flaking exposed ways like that, crap gets in them and it will/could transfer to the underside of your saddle ways.
> 
> Jon



Is there a safer way to do it?  Maybe microfiber and a lot of solvent to basically dissolve the crap?


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## Dabbler

@Ceej0103, I use a stiff toothbrish and solvent to clean my ways.  Cheap and effective.  If it is really gummy, then white scotchbright with very light pressure is occasionally required - but only as a last resort time saver.


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## mikey

I agree with Dabbler - use white Scotchbrite if you can. It won't remove metal. I would try Kerosene to get the crud off. If it is petroleum-based crud, Kerosene should soften it enough for the white pad to work.


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## mikey

Dabbler said:


> If it is really gummy, then white scotchbright with very light pressure is occasionally required ...



I agree with Dabbler - use white Scotchbrite if you can. It won't remove metal. It is always best to start with the least abrasive medium and work up in coarseness only if you absolutely have to. I've even used a Mr. Clean magic eraser before and it sometimes works.

I would try Kerosene to get the crud off. If it is petroleum-based crud, Kerosene should soften it enough for the white pad to work.


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## Ceej0103

Dabbler said:


> @Ceej0103, I use a stiff toothbrish and solvent to clean my ways.  Cheap and effective.  If it is really gummy, then white scotchbright with very light pressure is occasionally required - but only as a last resort time saver.





mikey said:


> I agree with Dabbler - use white Scotchbrite if you can. It won't remove metal. It is always best to start with the least abrasive medium and work up in coarseness only if you absolutely have to. I've even used a Mr. Clean magic eraser before and it sometimes works.
> 
> I would try Kerosene to get the crud off. If it is petroleum-based crud, Kerosene should soften it enough for the white pad to work.



Thanks gents; since I don't have any white scotch brite and I've never seen it at my local stores (and I shouldnt got to them anyways during this time), I'll order some on Amazon and start with the toothbrush method.


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## Ceej0103

Day 5...

Got the column stood back up and spent the better part of 2 hours going over it with a wire wheel to clean off old paint. The top layer of paint went quick, but then I hit a layer of something further down that was somewhat gummy and tended to smear when the wheel hit it.  I'm assuming maybe an oil-based primer they may have used or possibly the combination of an oil-based primer and maybe some body filler.  Not sure if they used body filler/bondo on these things back in the day after manufacturing. Since whatever it was seemed to be stuck pretty good and has been for at least 30 years, I figured I would leave it.  So it went down to about 50% bare metal and 50% whatever that first coating was.  

Hit it with a nice liberal acetone wash and then went over it with the oil based primer and then hit it with a coat of the gloss black.  All in all I don't feel like I accomplished much, but I suppose this is the biggest part of the machine with the most painting prep work so I'll take that as a victory.  Up next, after I use it to hold the column while I put it back in the garage, I'll remove the turret and get that going.  It looks like a fairly simple part to restore with just the two blocks that lock the ram.  

Got a long day of doing some framing work at an investment property tomorrow so Day 6 will come on Sunday.  Goal is to get the turret and ram painted and ready to be mounted on Monday morning after the paint sets overnight.


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## Ceej0103

Day 6...

Didn't quite make my goal of having both turret and ram painted, but got them both primed.  Like the column, another long day of wire wheeling and scraping to get them ready for paint. Luckily the paint of these parts was in real bad shape and I was able to knock about 50% of it off by just gently tapping it with a small hammer.  Got the machined surfaces on the turret cleaned up pretty nice and they should be ready to accept the ram.  Haven't done the ways on the ram yet so will probably tackle that before final paint since the primer is pretty resilient to being handled and place on a soft surface when I flip the ram.  Going to paint the turret in place on the machine, once dried, I'll lift it back off, place the mounting hardware, and put it on for good.

Parts for turret and ram are ready to go.  Pinion, bolts, worm screw, collar, blocks, all of it.  So once that paint dries, those two parts are checked off the list.

I would like to break in to that knee tomorrow, but realistically I wont get after it until 3-4 in the afternoon and will have just enough daylight to finish up the turret and ram.

EDIT: After looking at the pictures of the ram, is it just me or does the Bridgeport logo actually look like it says Bridgebort.  That's funny....never notice.


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## hwelecrepair

Never noticed the "Bridgebort" before.  Had to go back to the graveyard and looked at a few, and they all have that.  

Jon


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## Ceej0103

Day 7 and 8...

Didn't get around to posting my updates yesterday so here's yesterday and today. Yesterday I got the turret and was able to strip down the knee and get that primed. Found that using a hammer and dull chisel is far superior than the wire wheel for stripping the old paint.  With light taps and a good chisel angle, the paint just flakes off and makes much less of a mess than all the paint dust.  Took me about 2 hours to get the knee down to bare metal and then another 30 minutes to wipe it down with acetone and get it primed.  

Today I lifted the ram and mounted it to the machine and then painted.  I also tackled that pinion with the broken handle shaft in it. I'm a little embarrassed to say, but this was the first time I actually needed to extract a broken bolt from something. I went after it with a 5/16" endmill to knock down the jagged edges and give me a good flat to center drill.  After center drilling, I put in a left hand drill bit and tried that trick to pull it out.  It didn't budge.  I remembered I had a cheap screw extractor set that I had on the shelf and pulled that out, chucked it up, and ran it down slowly in to the pilot through-hole I had just created with the drill bit.  To my surprise, it backed out nice and easy.  I threw a stud from my mill hold-down set in to the pinion as a temporary handle.  I'll make a new one on my little lathe when I have some time.  The ram moves nice and easy now.

After that, I chased down the pedestal, elevating nut, and elevating screw.  Got those all cleaned up, paint removed, primed the pedestal, and then installed the components.  Mounted that to the column and was ready to lift the knee in to position.  All went off without a hitch.  Got the gib put back in the knee along with the bevel gear assembly.  I'll do final gib adjustment once the saddle and table are back in place.  

Next step....I think I'll do the saddle and table, and then move in to the oiler.  The oiler is in rough shape, but when I removed it from the machine I was able to pump it without and lines attached and it pumped oil out so at least the pump is good.  Need to get all the lines clear.  I also broke the gear shaft clutch insert when removing it from the machine so need to get an order in to H&W for that.  I found a few other parts I need also so will probably just add some oil meters to the order and just replace them.  I'm sure they're gummed up good. 

It's coming together.  Soon I get in to the complicated parts to see if I can revive them.  The oiler, DRO, power feed, and head. I'm not very confident that I can get the DRO back in to operation although one of the axis worked when I got the machine.  I'm hoping the power feed will come back to life with some tinkering.  It was DOA when I got the machine.


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## hwelecrepair

I was looking for the pics of your DRO and power feed, it was an Acu-Rite II correct?  If it still has the old AR5 scales on it, those things are robust as all get out.  I got a few working Acu-Rite IIs here at the shop with those awesome wood collet holders on it, if you need any parts or need to make sure something looks good.  

I think you had an Align power feed on it, right? 

I am diggin the black paint, big time.

Jon


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## brino

Ceej0103 said:


> I remembered I had a cheap screw extractor set that I had on the shelf and pulled that out, chucked it up, and ran it down slowly in to the pilot through-hole I had just created with the drill bit. To my surprise, it backed out nice and easy.



Wow! A documented case of an easy-out actually working rather than just making the situation worse by lodging broken-off harden metal into the hole.

I think I can count on one finger the number of times I have heard about it working......including this case!

Great progress!

-brino

PS: this is only partially in jest, but my experience with them (of many different styles and manufacturers) is very poor.
However, I do not think I have ever tried one under power, except in a handheld drill.


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## Ceej0103

hwelecrepair said:


> I was looking for the pics of your DRO and power feed, it was an Acu-Rite II correct?  If it still has the old AR5 scales on it, those things are robust as all get out.  I got a few working Acu-Rite IIs here at the shop with those awesome wood collet holders on it, if you need any parts or need to make sure something looks good.
> 
> I think you had an Align power feed on it, right?
> 
> I am diggin the black paint, big time.
> 
> Jon



Jon,

I'll check on the models for both of those pieces, but I think you're right on.  Once I get them cleaned up a little I'll snap some picutres of what I'm working with.  Do you know if it's easy to bench test the readers/scales?  Does it need to be mounted to do that, or should I be able to just move the reader a little on the glass/magnet (not sure what they have) to see if it's picking up the movement?


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## Ceej0103

brino said:


> Wow! A documented case of an easy-out actually working rather than just making the situation worse by lodging broken-off harden metal into the hole.
> 
> I think I can count on one finger the number of times I have heard about it working......including this case!
> 
> Great progress!
> 
> -brino
> 
> PS: this is only partially in jest, but my experience with them (of many different styles and manufacturers) is very poor.
> However, I do not think I have ever tried one under power, except in a handheld drill.



Beginners luck


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## hwelecrepair

@Ceej0103 if you have it hooked up to the box, you can verify that it is showing movement.  As far as verifying truly if the scale is working and accurate, it needs to be on the machine/properly aligned to test that.  So ya, just holding the reader head by hand you can move it and see if its reading.  

Jon


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## Ceej0103

hwelecrepair said:


> @Ceej0103 if you have it hooked up to the box, you can verify that it is showing movement.  As far as verifying truly if the scale is working and accurate, it needs to be on the machine/properly aligned to test that.  So ya, just holding the reader head by hand you can move it and see if its reading.
> 
> Jon



@hwelecrepair thanks so much!  I really appreciate you following me around and answer my questions.  From the looks of your location and name, you must be associated with H&W Machine Repair?  I think I saw a guy named Jon in some of the YouTube videos.  One in particular was the installation of a DRO on a Bridgeport.  That you?


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## Ceej0103

Day 9 and 10...

Not a whole lot to update.  Got the knee and pedestal painted and the gib installed. Got really hung up trying to free some parts from the crank side of the knee shaft and ended up destroying them.  I'm not proud of myself for breaking out the pipe wrenches, but I could tell they weren't coming apart without being forced and I had just set my mind to reclaiming what I could from that shaft and just buying a new one.  Got a whole bunch of parts fresh out of the Evaporust and ready to be polished up or painted.  

I have the ram adapter soaking in some degreaser and will clean that up tomorrow.  Spent the rest of tonight getting the garage back in order after tearing it apart for the Bridgeport rebuild and then further scatting crap around when I sold my benchtop mill and lathe today.  So trying to get back to an organized garage so I can lay parts out on my table and paint them.


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## hwelecrepair

Ceej0103 said:


> @hwelecrepair thanks so much!  I really appreciate you following me around and answer my questions.  From the looks of your location and name, you must be associated with H&W Machine Repair?  I think I saw a guy named Jon in some of the YouTube videos.  One in particular was the installation of a DRO on a Bridgeport.  That you?



Thats me, I am the DRO/power feed guy.  I like getting onto forums to help in any way I can with tips and tricks.  

Jon


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## Ceej0103

hwelecrepair said:


> Thats me, I am the DRO/power feed guy.  I like getting onto forums to help in any way I can with tips and tricks.
> 
> Jon



Awesome.  Those H&W videos have saved my life during this process.  Put in an order last night heading to Apex, NC.  Can't wait to get some new parts.


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## diamond

Watching this!   I picked up a varispeed 9x42 couple years ago that wasn't in quite as rusty but looked like hell.  Had been sitting in a wood working shop and had a lot of nasty crud built up.  Turned out to be pretty good underneath.   I did a head rebuild (H&W and this forum saved me multiple times there) but did not pull the saddle and tackle the body and freshen that all up.  Watching this thread I'm kinda wishing I had.   That black paint is awesome.   Great quarantine project!


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## brino

@Ceej0103,

The fresh paint looks great!



Ceej0103 said:


> I'm not proud of myself for breaking out the pipe wrenches, but I could tell they weren't coming apart without being forced



Sometimes you gotta use the less desirable tools in the tool box.
But it looks like you know what you're doing to make it all right again!

-brino


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## Ceej0103

@hwelecrepair just broke in to the DRO. Here’s 2 videos for you. The unit itself says Acurite II on it and the scales say Acurite-5. One of the reader heads will read and seems to be accurate according to my perceived distance traveled when moving it. The other one just causes slight flickers in the unit with no registration of movement.  I flipped the X and Y around to see if it was the reader or the unit itself and it seems to be the reader head. The good reader will register movement when plugged in to either axis.

Whats also interesting is that the X readout seems to have the decimal in the wrong position. When I feel like I’ve moved an inch, it reads .1000. The Y scale appears to work correctly when showing 1” as 1.0000. Most of the buttons on the unit don’t see to do anything. The zero/reset button works and both toggle switches for inch/mm and on/off.

The button next to 9 and 6 are broken off. They appear to have a bulb in them. Not sure what they do. The one next to the 9 clears the readout when I press it.

I’m thinking I may just invest in a more modern unit. This one may eventually work, but this isn’t my cup of tea and not sure what I would sink in to it to get it working.

What do you think??










Disregard me wife telling me she’s going to rob a bank and asking me if I want a chicken biscuit.


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## Ceej0103

brino said:


> @Ceej0103,
> 
> The fresh paint looks great!
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes you gotta use the less desirable tools in the tool box.
> But it looks like you know what you're doing to make it all right again!
> 
> -brino



Thanks, Brino!  Got a care packages touching down Monday and should have all the parts needed to put this thing back together. Then ill break in to the Head and see what treasures I find.


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## Ceej0103

diamond said:


> Watching this!   I picked up a varispeed 9x42 couple years ago that wasn't in quite as rusty but looked like hell.  Had been sitting in a wood working shop and had a lot of nasty crud built up.  Turned out to be pretty good underneath.   I did a head rebuild (H&W and this forum saved me multiple times there) but did not pull the saddle and tackle the body and freshen that all up.  Watching this thread I'm kinda wishing I had.   That black paint is awesome.   Great quarantine project!



I can’t say it’s been the most fun, but it should be rewarding at the end of the day.  I’ll do a lessons learned summary at the end of the process to give some tips. The biggest one being invest in a needle scaler. I can tell by how I’m using light taps with a hammer as a better solution to removing the old crispy paint than grinding it all off, I should have bought a needle scaler in the beginning. And I’m still going to get one for that 13x40 lathe.


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## ttabbal

Can't say for the display head, but on my Chinese scales I had to remove the reader head on one and reposition everything to get it to read properly. Something bumped in shipping. Yours might be fixable that way. Maybe cleaning the glass scale itself. 

I've only used a few features other than just zero and cut. But I do like things like bolt circles. The calculator comes in handy as well. Down side is the manual is almost worthless so I have to figure out how it works.  

Good progress on fixing up the mill! I like the paint job.


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## hwelecrepair

So ya, I would go with reader head too.  When a reader head is dying, it will do that crap with the last digit flickering.  I have never seen one of these AR2's with the button that yours is missing actually be there.  

As far as the decimal point being in the wrong spot, it could be that the display is bad or that the dip switches are set for some other resolution setting or something.

You could probably sell the working Y axis and the DRO box on fleabay for something, to at least offset the cost of upgrading to a new DRO.  Unless you can find a working AR5 scale that is the right length that someone wants to sell you, replacement with an Acu-Rite scale will cost a few hundred bucks along with $80 for interface cable.  

Jon


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## Ceej0103

Day 11 and 12...

Had a really productive day.  Got in to the garage at 1000 and before I knew it, it was 1600.  The saddle is checked off the list.  Did a really good deep cleaning on it beginning with degreasing in a big plastic tub (concrete mixing tub) followed by dunking it in my garage sink and hitting is with some super hot water and soap.  Got all the nooks and crannies cleaned out, all the lube ports cleaned out, and generally in good shape for painting.  Ways look pretty good.  

Next up was the lube system. I numbered everything and then dunked it all in the ultrasonic cleaner to see if I could get the meters to come back to life.  Nope.  I cant get any flow through them at all.  Not sure what the inside of those things look like normally, but they must have small orifices and mine must be all gummed up.  Not worth the headache.  When I put in my second order while dealing with the head I'll order 10x of the #1 meters and just replace all of them.  Otherwise, all of the lines are blown out and freely moving air through them.  The one shot system is also pumping oil out the top pretty well, so I'm going to assuming it works, but probably should also replace the filter in that when I order the meters. 

After the lube system I jumped on the X and Y screws and got them all sparkled up. Just purely from looking at the width of the teeth at the end of the screws versus the areas I would assume the most wear would be, they look pretty good. 

Last up, I installed the ram adapter and got that pinned in.  Also installed the 3 bolts that lock the adapter.  It's moving like warm butter now.  I can tilt the adapter up and down by hand turning the screw. I painted a few more parts too and threw them in the 'ready' box.  

Last 2 items on the list are the table and head.  I won't though the head until the machine is fully assembled and my garage is in good order.  I'm going to welder up a mount for the head tomorrow that can be clamped down to my welding table. 

I'm going to make a change going forward.  I had been painting bolt heads to match the machine.  Well, that primer + paint is too think and the wrench has trouble getting on it.  When it does, it just gums up the paint.  So, I tested one of the ram lock bolts with a nice polished bare metal surface then hit it with a coat of clear.  I can easily put the wrench on it and I like the contrasting look of the black and raw steel.  I'm going to strip the paint back off the fasteners that I've already painted and go polished steel on all of that.


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## hwelecrepair

Getting into the lube system can really suck.  At least you had the rubber lines instead of metal.  Whenever I get a table off, I always worry about what I will find regarding the lube system.  

What accent color are you gonna paint the lettering on the ram?

Jon


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## Ceej0103

hwelecrepair said:


> Getting into the lube system can really suck.  At least you had the rubber lines instead of metal.  Whenever I get a table off, I always worry about what I will find regarding the lube system.
> 
> What accent color are you gonna paint the lettering on the ram?
> 
> Jon



Good question and I actually pondered that last night. I don’t know!  Thinking on maybe a gunmetal grey.


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## Liljoebrshooter

dang this brings back memories. I went through the same process last year i believe. One thing about doing this is you will know the machine inside and out.
Your progress looks great.

Joe


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## Ceej0103

Liljoebrshooter said:


> dang this brings back memories. I went through the same process last year i believe. One thing about doing this is you will know the machine inside and out.
> Your progress looks great.
> 
> Joe


 
Indeed...I'm glad I did it.  Frankly, I dont think I had a choice.  The machine was in bad shape.  And you're right...I'm learning every part of the machine.  I haven't cracked in to the J-head yet, but overall these things aren't that complicated.


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## Ceej0103

Day 13...

I'm waiting for a set of wipers so I can't really install the saddle, but I put it back on the knee and boy does she look pretty all dressed in jet black and shiny steel ways.  I didn't take a pic...I'll do that before I put the table on. 

The big project today was to build a mount for the J-head so I could position it on a table and get to work on it.  I re-purposed and old chunk of steel that use to be the base of a large reelcraft hose reel that I purchased.  Cut off a couple pieces...welded them back on in different spots....drilled....and voila.  J-head is now mounted to the bench and under power.  I ran it a bit, but not going to push it. Looking through the gap by the speed dial where you can see the pully, everything is really rusted in there.  She needs to be torn down and rebuilt.  

I have a care package coming in from H&W tomorrow.  Once I get those parts sorted out and reinstalled, the only items left will be the table and J-Head.  I'll probably tackle the table tomorrow since it's not complicated and I would really like to get this plastic sandbox out of my driveway that I've been storing it in for cleaning.  After that, the table goes up and I start pulling parts out of that head.  Anyhow...a short vid of the heading coming to life.


----------



## ttabbal

It looks like you are switching the output side of the VFD. I've always read not to do that. I run the VFD output direct to the motor and use a separate control panel to tell the VFD what I want. Perhaps yours is designed to tolerate that, but just thought I would mention it just in case.


----------



## Ceej0103

ttabbal said:


> It looks like you are switching the output side of the VFD. I've always read not to do that. I run the VFD output direct to the motor and use a separate control panel to tell the VFD what I want. Perhaps yours is designed to tolerate that, but just thought I would mention it just in case.



I honestly haven't a clue. The really terrible manual that came with it said input power comes in to L1/L2 (Leg 1/Leg 2) as well as a neutral and ground.  Unfortunately the SOOJ I was using to test it doesn't have the 4th wire, so I used ground as a hot and wired L1/L2/Neutral.  On the output side, I tied in to the 3 lugs that the manual indicates go out to the motor.  Ground was off for the tests.  Of course, I won't run it absent a ground when I actually install it. 

Not quite sure what you mean...I'm not supposed to use the VFD itself as the control interface?


----------



## Liljoebrshooter

You should wire it to use the VFD as the switching device.
My Teco specifically says not to use a switch after the VFD.

Joe


----------



## ttabbal

Ceej0103 said:


> I honestly haven't a clue. The really terrible manual that came with it said input power comes in to L1/L2 (Leg 1/Leg 2) as well as a neutral and ground.  Unfortunately the SOOJ I was using to test it doesn't have the 4th wire, so I used ground as a hot and wired L1/L2/Neutral.  On the output side, I tied in to the 3 lugs that the manual indicates go out to the motor.  Ground was off for the tests.  Of course, I won't run it absent a ground when I actually install it.
> 
> Not quite sure what you mean...I'm not supposed to use the VFD itself as the control interface?




You should use it. But it looks like you have the FWD/OFF/REV switch between the VFD outputs and the motor. That can damage the VFD at least from everything I have seen on it.


----------



## Ceej0103

ttabbal said:


> You should use it. But it looks like you have the FWD/OFF/REV switch between the VFD outputs and the motor. That can damage the VFD at least from everything I have seen on it.



Gotcha. My plan is to get a decent VFD when I finish the machine. Hopefully it comes with good instructions vs. this chinesium crap I have now.


----------



## Ceej0103

ttabbal said:


> You should use it. But it looks like you have the FWD/OFF/REV switch between the VFD outputs and the motor. That can damage the VFD at least from everything I have seen on it.



or just bite thE bullet and either buy or build a rotary phase converter.  Then I don’t have to worry about VFD wiring.


----------



## Dabbler

@Ceej0103  Use the TECO 510 manual:  not for the settings, but for all the wiring things, like what to do with the wiring and EMI protection.  All VFDs are the same in those aspects.


----------



## ttabbal

I use Chinese VFDs. They work fine, but yes, documentation is lacking. If you choose to use phase converters, static or rotary, no issues there. I like the variable speed, but your BP head is a variable speed anyway, so you already have it, just a different way. My mill is a step pulley setup, so I have more use for the variable speed aspect. 

At the end of the day, there's no "right" way. Use what works best for you.


----------



## Ceej0103

Day 14...

My care package from H&W arrived, but to my disappointment the elevator screw comes direct from their supplier and it didn't come today.  Booo. So raising and lowering the knee will have to wait for another day. Part of that care package included a new ram locking bolt.  You can see in the picture how worn one of them was.  The other was fine.  I'm not sure what kind of animal was tightening that bolt, but wow.  He/she turned an acme thread in to a 60 degree thread...

I got the knee wipers installed and installed the wipers on the back side of the saddle.  The front would be done too, but when I was buffing the wiper plate moments before installing it, one of the corners grabbed my buffing wheel and took off like a bat out of hell.  Took me a solid 10 minute to find it....and then I realized I only found half of it.  It broke in 2 pieces.  I'll break out the TIG welder tomorrow and throw some welds on it to straighten that back out. 

The knee lock took the better part of 2 hours to sort out.  I could only get the shaft of the lever in about half way and then it would gum up so tightly that I was sweating trying to budge it back and forth to free it up and slowly back it out.  Did this maneuver about 20 times until I have the passage cleared of whatever crap was causing the issue.  The handle is still a little firm...wondering if that just how the knee lock handles are?  It turns super easy until the gib is seated low enough to clear the wiper plate.  Once I get the gib down that far, then the handle start to tighten up as I imagine the knee lock is getting pushed by the gib as the gib taper becomes wider.  Anyone have a similar knee lock that's pretty tight?

Got the feed nut bracket dropped in the saddle and put the Y axis lead screw in place.  I'm attaching a video of its operation as I have an issue there as well.  When the dial lock nut is backed off, it spins like butter.  When I lock the dial, it binds up and starts rubbing the housing to the point that it's tough to turn.  I looked at the lead screw assembly image and I don't see any shims/washers in there on the image.  I do have a stack of shims, but for some reason I thought all of those belonged to the power feed.  What am I missing here?


----------



## brino

Ceej0103 said:


> Part of that care package included a new ram locking bolt. You can see in the picture how worn one of them was. The other was fine. I'm not sure what kind of animal was tightening that bolt, but wow. He/she turned an acme thread in to a 60 degree thread...



Wow! It is hard to believe that worn, mis-formed thread came from a machine with such low wear on the dovetail slides......

You are making such quick progress. Congratulations.

-brino


----------



## hwelecrepair

Ya, its just bound up.  When you have the dial nut tight, you should see daylight between the dial and the bracket.  Shims arent always needed, and they arent always not needed.  Just shim it so that there is sunshine between the two and you will be fine.

Jon


----------



## Ceej0103

brino said:


> Wow! It is hard to believe that worn, mis-formed thread came from a machine with such low wear on the dovetail slides......
> 
> You are making such quick progress. Congratulations.
> 
> -brino



Theyre pretty huh? The more I learn about the machine and how it wears, the more I think this thing was used as a giant drill press with limited movement of the table/knee.


----------



## Ceej0103

hwelecrepair said:


> Ya, its just bound up.  When you have the dial nut tight, you should see daylight between the dial and the bracket.  Shims arent always needed, and they arent always not needed.  Just shim it so that there is sunshine between the two and you will be fine.
> 
> Jon



thanks Jon. I’ll shim her out a bit and give it a go.


----------



## Ceej0103

Day 15...

Well, had to basically dismantle everything on the knee to pull that back apart.  I was really dissatisfied with the knee lock and felt something was off.  And it was.  I'm glad I broke it back down.  Basically when I disassembled the knee lock handle (by removing the pin), I re-installed in 180 degree out.  Because of that, what I felt was the unlocked position of the handle, was locked. I only found this out by removing the knee, installing all of those components and feeling the knee lock push out and retract as I cycled the handle.  I got that fixed and reassembled and all is right with the knee lock now.  Operates smoothly and locks hard.  

Got a call from H&W today.  Turns out their supplier for the elevator shaft is at least 3-4 weeks out for the shaft.  Damn.  So I went ahead and reinstalled what I could for the elevator shaft assembly and got that moving nice and smooth.  Basically everything can go on it with exception of the dial nut, dial, and clutch.  The key for the clutch is so mangled up that I don't want to put the new clutch on it.  So for now I'll turn it with a pipe wrench until my new shaft arrives. 

Spent about 2 hours working the table today also.  Also surfaces, except the ends, are cleaned and have been hit with a medium and fine files to remove the burs and any dings. As you can see from the pictures, the top has been abused.  Surprisingly, my file didn't hit many high spots with exception of some upset areas on the corners where the table took an impact from a tool or material.  

Got an order in for 10x #1 oil meters and those should be here Friday.  I really wanted to get the table in place today, but forgot I need to get that lube tubing installed in the saddle before I can do that.  So tomorrow I'm going to get the garage back in shape and then move in to the head of the machine.  

One issue that I can't fix is the gib on the saddle. It must really be warn because I'm bottoming out with the gib hitting the wiper plate in the back of the saddle, and I still have play in the saddle.  So I have 2 options, replace or shim.  @hwelecrepair do you know if I can just buy a gib that will fit in the machine or do those have to be custom fit?  I see a gib available for purchase, but not sure if its a plug and play type part.


----------



## Ceej0103

On a different note, I've been watching this precision machine shop auction that happened to be 10 minutes from my house.  It was scheduled about 2 months ago and we're finally coming up on the date of the auction. As fate would have it, I was rolling down the street on my new garage (office) chair drinking a beer (because who wants to walk when you can sit in an office chair) and I ran in to a new neighbor that lives behind me.  We start talking about my hobby because she's saw the forklift and machines and mentions her dad owns a machine shop and is auctioning everything.  It's the same one.  Ive actually talked to her dad a while back asking a few questions about some of the lots.  Small world!

Anyhow, the reason I'm posting is if anyone is interested in any of the smaller lots that can be boxed up, and since I'm 10 minutes down the road, I would be happy to assist in boxing up and shipping anything you want.  He's got some REALLY nice tools!  Here's the link...





__





						WestStar Precision
					





					www.thebranfordgroup.com
				




PS, don't bid on the surface plates....I want one of those!


----------



## hwelecrepair

There is no such thing as a pre-fit gib.  If you get a new gib, you would be having to cut, grind, scrape it all to your machine.  It would be easier to just shim it.  How much rock do you have with it bottomed out?

Jon


----------



## Ceej0103

hwelecrepair said:


> There is no such thing as a pre-fit gib.  If you get a new gib, you would be having to cut, grind, scrape it all to your machine.  It would be easier to just shim it.  How much rock do you have with it bottomed out?
> 
> Jon



I'll put an indicator on it today and let you know.


----------



## wlburton

brino said:


> Wow! A documented case of an easy-out actually working rather than just making the situation worse by lodging broken-off harden metal into the hole.
> 
> I think I can count on one finger the number of times I have heard about it working......including this case!
> 
> Great progress!
> 
> -brino
> 
> PS: this is only partially in jest, but my experience with them (of many different styles and manufacturers) is very poor.
> However, I do not think I have ever tried one under power, except in a handheld drill.


I always thought the name "Easy-Out" was meant to be ironic.


----------



## Ceej0103

hwelecrepair said:


> There is no such thing as a pre-fit gib.  If you get a new gib, you would be having to cut, grind, scrape it all to your machine.  It would be easier to just shim it.  How much rock do you have with it bottomed out?
> 
> Jon



Hard to say with 100% accuracy. I have an indicator on the back side of the saddle, but when I twist the saddle, I’m getting some movement because of lead screw backlash. When I try to take up the backlash and only twist the saddle vs pushing it along the axis of the ways, I see about .005 in the indicator. So let’s call it .005 play in the saddle with the gib bottomed.

here’s a video


----------



## Ceej0103

Day 16....

Dove in to the head today and immediately hit issues.  Was following Barry on YouTube to break it down.  When we got to the part about removing the top cap, i quickly realized those 1/4-20 socket head cap screws were disintegrated to the point that light pressure on my hex wrench just rounded the off. I took some time to get a game plan together and decided the best approach would be carefully center drill the socket heads staying as concentric as possible.  Started with a bit slightly larger than the original hex slot and started working my way up towards something just slightly larger than 1/4".  I was focused on not going too deep as to blow through the top plate and render it useless.  When I got to my last drill bit size, the plan came together and the remaining aspect of the socket broke free and came out attached to the bit. Good...now the socket head cap screws had no sock heads.  From there I rounded up a few more 1/4-20 to use as jack screws (since I had just ruined mine).  After about 5 minutes of working it slowly, it came free of the remaining threads.  I'll get those out later. 

Everything else came apart as expected on the top half of the machine.  Although I did find a random key sitting in one of the castings.  Haven't yet discovered what that might belong to. 

Fast forward to the quill housing.  That was going along find until I tried to remove the downfeed clutch.  I removed the 2 screws holding the outer housing and it appears, based on the H&W video that the whole clutch assembly should just pull out.  It's not. It felt like something was holder the cover on and then after doing some investigating, looks like that cover has a pin of sorts that allows the cover to hinge. It also appears that you can't free that cover unless you can get that pin removed from it's location.  I can't pull the clutch out.  It's not budging at all.  All videos I've seen have that clutch just sliding out freely once the 2 screws are removed from the cap.  So I called it a night there. Shot it was some lube with hopes there some rust or something in there holding it in.

If anyone has any ideas for that clutch that wont come up, I'm all ears.  I'm also having trouble removing the collar on the front of the quill that has the set screw for the key, and then the slotted screw that holds in the spring and ball.  That bushing will no pull off the shaft.  Im trying to give it some light prying, but no movement.  Shot this with lube as well and will hit it against tomorrow.

If anyone has any ideas, those would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## hwelecrepair

There should not be a pin in the cover.  If you take a dead blow/soft hammer and tap the top/bottom (up/down) it will eventually come free.

Barry said if you get stuck in a process, feel free to call the shop with any questions.

Jon


----------



## Ceej0103

Day 17...

Got the head completely torn down to include the quill housing. So the clutch housing that I was having a problem with just needed a little more encouragement.  I used a pry bar and just pulled on it between the housing the the lever that goes towards the front of the machine.  Came out pretty easily with some pry bar encouragement. 

From there I went back to the front of the machine to make a run at that bushing that has the slot head screw, spring and ball in it.  Come to find out, the ball was jammed so firmly down in to the ball's recess in the shaft that it would't come out. So basically when trying to pull that bushing off, it was being retained by the ball sticking half way out of the hole. I tried to free it with some picks, some light taps to rattle it loose, but it wasn't coming. So, instead of stopping in my tracks and trying to find an easy solution I felt probably didnt exist, I just went ahead with cutting the bushing with a pneumatic cutoff wheel.  Sucks, it was a perfectly good part, but I wasn't going to be able to dismantle further without getting it out of the way.  Once I had it compromised to the point that it had some give, I pried it over the ball bearing stuck in the hole. 

Now on to the shaft with the stuck ball bearing in it.  The ball wasn't coming free no matter what I did.  So I ended up using that same pneumatic cutoff wheel and scoring the edge of the hole just deep enough to get a pick under the ball and pop it out.  It worked.  I looked up the cost of that shaft with worm gear assembly at the end that drives the clutch and it's like $200.  So I'm going to use a little JB weld to fill in that recess and then sand it smooth.  Should work fine again.

After those two items were tackled, I just moved around the head without issue.  The entire head is sitting on the bench now and I have the pulley's soaking in evaporust.  I did find out where that random key came from that was sitting near the motor. The stationary side of the disk attached to the motor shaft was missing the key, but still had the set screw.  Either it worked itself out, or someone didn't tighten the set screw.

I also decided to tackle the power feed today as well to see if I could figure out why it wasnt working.  I'll attach a video instead of writing that up.

I'm placing another order to H&W for the parts I need for the head.  Assuming they ship as quickly as last time, I think I should have every part I need to have this machine 100% back together by middle of next week.


----------



## hwelecrepair

I am watching this and wanting to type stuff that I am assuming you already figured out, but I will type it anyways.  The switch on the right is the on/off switch, but the button on the left hand side opposite it is the circuit breaker.  Gotta make sure that is pushed in and is allowing power to the on off switch.  The spring you are talking about as you get the 4 covers screws off is on the fork assembly and pushes the gears apart when in neutral.  Ok, I too am curious where the plastic came from, but that monstrous fuse is NOT normal... FYI.  Wait wait... you dont like to see exposed wiring in electronics?   lol Ya, that is not normal.  That fuse (if you want to get it back to original and properly working) has gots to go now.  Again, I am trying to type as I watch the video.  I have to agree with your inner monologue, it probably isnt the safest trying just to touch those two together... 

That fuse should not be there.  There is a circuit breaker that needs to be in the spot behind that orange bubble lookin thing.  That way when it trips, you arent gutting it and tearing it apart just to replace the fuse.  I will look and see if I have that circuit breaker in stock... we don't typically stock Align parts, but I do have some parts here in my work area.  If I do, we can pop it into the next order.

Can you check your brushes and tell me how long the carbon is?

Jon


----------



## Ceej0103

hwelecrepair said:


> I am watching this and wanting to type stuff that I am assuming you already figured out, but I will type it anyways.  The switch on the right is the on/off switch, but the button on the left hand side opposite it is the circuit breaker.  Gotta make sure that is pushed in and is allowing power to the on off switch.  The spring you are talking about as you get the 4 covers screws off is on the fork assembly and pushes the gears apart when in neutral.  Ok, I too am curious where the plastic came from, but that monstrous fuse is NOT normal... FYI.  Wait wait... you dont like to see exposed wiring in electronics?   lol Ya, that is not normal.  That fuse (if you want to get it back to original and properly working) has gots to go now.  Again, I am trying to type as I watch the video.  I have to agree with your inner monologue, it probably isnt the safest trying just to touch those two together...
> 
> That fuse should not be there.  There is a circuit breaker that needs to be in the spot behind that orange bubble lookin thing.  That way when it trips, you arent gutting it and tearing it apart just to replace the fuse.  I will look and see if I have that circuit breaker in stock... we don't typically stock Align parts, but I do have some parts here in my work area.  If I do, we can pop it into the next order.
> 
> Can you check your brushes and tell me how long the carbon is?
> 
> Jon



I’ll check this morning real quick. Not sure if you work near Debbi, but I placed an order yesterday and she sent the link to the tracking number this morning. Maybe tell her to hold that package a second so you have time to see if you have anything.


----------



## hwelecrepair

if you placed it yesterday, prior to about 3EST, then it shipped yesterday.

Jon


----------



## Ceej0103

hwelecrepair said:


> I am watching this and wanting to type stuff that I am assuming you already figured out, but I will type it anyways.  The switch on the right is the on/off switch, but the button on the left hand side opposite it is the circuit breaker.  Gotta make sure that is pushed in and is allowing power to the on off switch.  The spring you are talking about as you get the 4 covers screws off is on the fork assembly and pushes the gears apart when in neutral.  Ok, I too am curious where the plastic came from, but that monstrous fuse is NOT normal... FYI.  Wait wait... you dont like to see exposed wiring in electronics?   lol Ya, that is not normal.  That fuse (if you want to get it back to original and properly working) has gots to go now.  Again, I am trying to type as I watch the video.  I have to agree with your inner monologue, it probably isnt the safest trying just to touch those two together...
> 
> That fuse should not be there.  There is a circuit breaker that needs to be in the spot behind that orange bubble lookin thing.  That way when it trips, you arent gutting it and tearing it apart just to replace the fuse.  I will look and see if I have that circuit breaker in stock... we don't typically stock Align parts, but I do have some parts here in my work area.  If I do, we can pop it into the next order.
> 
> Can you check your brushes and tell me how long the carbon is?
> 
> Jon



@hwelecrepair brushes are .620” or about 20/32”.  The breaker seems inoperable. It doesn’t move. Maybe that’s why they installed the fuse. Here’s some close up pics.


----------



## hwelecrepair

Brushes look good.  I am still going through some old Anilam and EZ Trak cabinets I tore into yesterday, I will look for the breaker when that is done and let you know if I have it.

Jon


----------



## Ceej0103

hwelecrepair said:


> Brushes look good.  I am still going through some old Anilam and EZ Trak cabinets I tore into yesterday, I will look for the breaker when that is done and let you know if I have it.
> 
> Jon



Thanks again for the phone chat this morning!  BTW, I'm not going to do anything with this Accu-Rite DRO....happy to send you the parts if you can use them.  Pro-bono of course as repayment for all your assistance.


----------



## diamond

Catching up with your progress, you're going fast!   I spent an entire winter rebuilding my machine.

A bit earlier there was some posts about using a VFD.   I have a 1.5hp vari-speed but I chose to use a VFD as well.   I have a similar VFD setup on my lathe as well with a lot of help from Mark Jacobs (on this site) mods and I learned a lot doing that conversion.  It was pretty easy to go off the experience I had with the lathe to set up another Hitatchi VFD for the mill.  No where near as complex as the lathe.  Rotary converters are an option but I'm liking having the VFD.  To be honest I rarely use the VFD for speed control on the mill but I have it set up to do it if I want to.   The VFD gives me some nice programming options motor startup/braking curves etc.   You can pick up a Hitatchi WJ200-15SF for about $275.   I spent more on other components that aren't entirely necessary.  A minimal setup would just need a couple momentary contact switches and some shielded wire.

I put the controls in a small aluminum enclosure and mounted it where the original BP power switch goes.   I'll take some pictures later today and post them here for you.


----------



## diamond

Here's a couple pics.   If you're interested in more details on how I set this up let me know.   You could do this without the speed pot or the emergency stop.  The minimum is just need 2 momentary push switches for start/stop and the 3 pos fwd/off/rev switch.  I've gotten reasonably competent at programming the Hitatchi VFD so would not mind passing along what I know.

In the electronics enclosure I have breakers providing both the 220v for the VFD and 110v (for the power feed, DRO etc.).   I've also got a 12v supply in there for cooling fan, panel lights and eventually power a tach display.


----------



## Ceej0103

diamond said:


> Here's a couple pics.   If you're interested in more details on how I set this up let me know.   You could do this without the speed pot or the emergency stop.  The minimum is just need 2 momentary push switches for start/stop and the 3 pos fwd/off/rev switch.  I've gotten reasonably competent at programming the Hitatchi VFD so would not mind passing along what I know.
> 
> In the electronics enclosure I have breakers providing both the 220v for the VFD and 110v (for the power feed, DRO etc.).   I've also got a 12v supply in there for cooling fan, panel lights and eventually power a tach display.
> 
> View attachment 321313
> View attachment 321312



Very clean setup! and yes I'm interested.  I forgot that the new lathe is single phase, so a rotary inverter just seems like overkill for one piece of equipment.  You have a power draw bar also?  Is that the pneumatic wrench one I've seen some people make?

If you have a parts list handy for your setup, I would happily accept it and start putting the components on order.  What's the difference between an emergency stop and the other stop button located right next to it?  Just easier to jam that big red E-button if something goes horrible wrong?

I ended up getting my lathe operating with the original wiring.  Everything seems to work fine except the contactor for one of the motor directions. I throw the lever down and the motor turns on and starts turning the chuck.  When I throw the lever up and it hits the notch where it seats, nothing.  If I push the lever up even higher until it almost touches the lead screw, it activates the contactor that engages when the lever is throw down essentially spinning the chuck in the same direction.  The motor is a single phase so I need to find another options than a VFD.  I may just find a good electrical engineer to look at it and tell me what parts I need to order.  I don't feel like trying to educate myself on all those parts.


----------



## diamond

Yes that's a power drawbar made out of a HF butterfly impact.   Another quarantine project I just completed a week ago.  I'm pretty happy how that turned out.   There's a ton of threads on making those but I haven't seen anyone use a 3-position momentary valve like that.   It was cheap off Amazon and worked out really well.   

Regarding the big red E button yeah that's pretty much it. I put the emergency stop there just to provide a means to slap something in a hurry.   I also thought it would be useful to have during tool changes or other operations where I might want the mill disabled.   Turns out that's completely redundant to center position on the fwd/off/rev switch.   I realized that after putting it in.   The kill switch lights up indicating power so there's that.   lol

I'm happy to provide info on the VFD setup & the parts I used.   I have that info somewhere on my computer, just need to dig it up this weekend and I'll post it for you.


----------



## Ceej0103

diamond said:


> Yes that's a power drawbar made out of a HF butterfly impact.   Another quarantine project I just completed a week ago.  I'm pretty happy how that turned out.   There's a ton of threads on making those but I haven't seen anyone use a 3-position momentary valve like that.   It was cheap off Amazon and worked out really well.
> 
> Regarding the big red E button yeah that's pretty much it. I put the emergency stop there just to provide a means to slap something in a hurry.   I also thought it would be useful to have during tool changes or other operations where I might want the mill disabled.   Turns out that's completely redundant to center position on the fwd/off/rev switch.   I realized that after putting it in.   The kill switch lights up indicating power so there's that.   lol
> 
> I'm happy to provide info on the VFD setup & the parts I used.   I have that info somewhere on my computer, just need to dig it up this weekend and I'll post it for you.



Awesome, many thanks.  I'll go get the VFD ordered since I'm going to need that regardless.


----------



## diamond

Ok the attached Excel file has what I could dig up for a parts list.   The DIN rail stuff and all is a bit overkill but it sure makes it all look nice and neat.   The fiberglass enclosure is technically not necessary but there's some really dangerous voltage in there so I think it's kinda a must for safety.  And it keeps the swarf away from all those sensitive electronics.  I cut openings for the cooling fan and an exhaust port with filter covers on both to keep the widows from building nests in there.   I do think ventilation is needed.  You could buy better switches from Mouser etc. and spend a lot more on them.  The cheapies I got on Amazon are not top industrial quality but they've held up to hobby use so far.

As others mentioned earlier, you MUST wire the 4 conductor power line from the VFD directly to the motor.   You DO NOT switch that line.  Your switches use the low voltage inputs on the VFD to control it.  I used cat-5 cable for the low voltage control.  I have a bunch of it and it's shielded.  

I put a 40A NEMA outlet on the wall and used a 4 conductor dryer pigtail to get power into the enclosure.   Did the same for my lathe.  One 220 circuit feeds both since I really never run both machines at the same time.  I put in the outlets so I can pull the plug to work in the enclosure safely without having to go throw the breaker.   Just another overkill on my part.   You don't need that.

I'll have to dig up the worksheet I used to program the VFD.   It was based off the programming from Mark Jacob's lathe setup and tweaked it for the mill controls.   There's a couple things you do to run the VFD autotune with your motor etc. then you program the inputs for the switches you're going to use, if you're going to put in the braking resistor (and I recommend it) etc.   If you're unfamiliar with VFDs it looks intimidating (there are a zillion options in the VFD) but only a few you really have to mess with.


----------



## Ceej0103

diamond said:


> Ok the attached Excel file has what I could dig up for a parts list.   The DIN rail stuff and all is a bit overkill but it sure makes it all look nice and neat.   The fiberglass enclosure is technically not necessary but there's some really dangerous voltage in there so I think it's kinda a must for safety.  And it keeps the swarf away from all those sensitive electronics.  I cut openings for the cooling fan and an exhaust port with filter covers on both to keep the widows from building nests in there.   I do think ventilation is needed.  You could buy better switches from Mouser etc. and spend a lot more on them.  The cheapies I got on Amazon are not top industrial quality but they've held up to hobby use so far.
> 
> As others mentioned earlier, you MUST wire the 4 conductor power line from the VFD directly to the motor.   You DO NOT switch that line.  Your switches use the low voltage inputs on the VFD to control it.  I used cat-5 cable for the low voltage control.  I have a bunch of it and it's shielded.
> 
> I put a 40A NEMA outlet on the wall and used a 4 conductor dryer pigtail to get power into the enclosure.   Did the same for my lathe.  One 220 circuit feeds both since I really never run both machines at the same time.  I put in the outlets so I can pull the plug to work in the enclosure safely without having to go throw the breaker.   Just another overkill on my part.   You don't need that.
> 
> I'll have to dig up the worksheet I used to program the VFD.   It was based off the programming from Mark Jacob's lathe setup and tweaked it for the mill controls.   There's a couple things you do to run the VFD autotune with your motor etc. then you program the inputs for the switches you're going to use, if you're going to put in the braking resistor (and I recommend it) etc.   If you're unfamiliar with VFDs it looks intimidating (there are a zillion options in the VFD) but only a few you really have to mess with.



This is awesome, thanks man!  I'll start ordering parts.


----------



## Ceej0103

Day 18 and 19...

Not much of an update for you guys at the moment.  I have another care package coming from H&W with the parts needed to reassemble the head. I'm in the process of cleaning up all the housings, stripping paint, and prepping to paint all those surfaces. I know originally a portion of the BP head had a polished finish on it and I'm looking forward to spending some time there. I think i'll buff those to a really nice polished finish and hit them with some polishing compound and a buffing wheel.

Many of the parts in the top end spent some time in a bucket of Evaporust and they're coming out looking very refreshed.  I can't say enough about Evaporust.  I know there's folks out there that would say "just use vinegar...save your money!" and maybe vinegar works, but I've had such great and quick results with Evaporust that I feel it's worth the money.  The stuff is non-toxic and does the job really quick.  I've taken super rusty (not just surface rust) parts and dipped them in the 5-gallon bucket overnight and they come out clean the next morning.  Anyhow, I have small plastic food storage containers sitting on the table with Evaporust and have parts soaking and getting cleaned up.  The entire quill housing is dunked right now and it's ready to be pulled to get hit with a light wire wheel and it will be ready for primer. One thing I've learned about Evaporust is that it's best to degrease your parts decently before you dunk them. Otherwise your Evaporust will turn black and will leave almost what appears to be a blackened finish on the parts.  That finish easily buffs off and the Evaporust seems to still work fine.  One of my buckets is heavily contaminated with oils and the other is still clean and clear.  

I did make a head mounting bracket for my bench, and it worked great for the tear down, but I think I'll mount the quill housing back to the machine as I start to rebuild.  I would rather reach a little higher to put pieces back together than trying to rig and lift the head as one unit with my engine hoist.  It worked to get it off, but getting it lined up well so that I can get all the bolts started, without help (thanks COVID), seems like a challenge I can avoid.  The motor isn't really as heavy as I suspected and will be the most difficult lift, but I'm a big boy and can handle that.


----------



## diamond

Ceej when you get to wiring up your control panel and programming the VFD, look at this post.  Mark is an outstanding resource and really understands VFDs.  The 3 wire control wiring and Hitachi programming he documented in the attachments to his post below is what I followed.    It's been working great.   

3 wire VFD control by mksj


----------



## Ceej0103

Let me know if you guys can help me understand this part.


----------



## Technical Ted

It looks like you're missing a part. Hi range is selected via a hole in a sliding piece that is adjustable. Looks like you're missing this piece. This missing piece slides in the large slot. Check the parts listing.

Moving the lever retracts the pin and that is how you change ranges.

The book I suggest show all this and how to adjust it.

Edit: Here's the book I always suggest than new owner get. I did and it was a great help:





__





						A Guide to Renovating the Bridgeport "2J" Variable Speed Milling Machine: ILION Industrial Services LLC: 9781482367911: Amazon.com: Books
					

A Guide to Renovating the Bridgeport 2J Variable Speed Milling Machine [ILION Industrial Services LLC] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. A Guide to Renovating the Bridgeport 2J Variable Speed Milling Machine



					www.amazon.com
				




Good luck,
Ted


----------



## Technical Ted

While you have it a part, replace these bushings. Make sure you get the correct set for your machine. It looks like it's a 1-1/2 HP head, but verify these are the correct ones:









						Bushing Kit for Bridgeport with 1 - 1/2 HP Head | 1037-15
					

Bushing Kit for Bridgeport Series I with 1.5hp head. Individual items in this kit may not be retuned for refund unless the entire kit is returned for refund. Includes: Motor Bushing (1113), Spindle Bushing (1126), Adj Motor Key (1035-B), Adj Driven Key (1095), 2 Epoxy, Motor Gage Pin (1037-OT)...




					www.machinerypartsdepot.com
				




You do NOT want these to go bad... if they do, you will end up ruining the motor armature, vari-speed pulley bores, etc. These are VERY costly to replace. The bushings are cheap and are a high wear item, requiring replacement from time to time. I would do it now. I think H&W has a video on replacing these. It's pretty easy with their kit. 

Ted


----------



## Ceej0103

Technical Ted said:


> While you have it a part, replace these bushings. Make sure you get the correct set for your machine. It looks like it's a 1-1/2 HP head, but verify these are the correct ones:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bushing Kit for Bridgeport with 1 - 1/2 HP Head | 1037-15
> 
> 
> Bushing Kit for Bridgeport Series I with 1.5hp head. Individual items in this kit may not be retuned for refund unless the entire kit is returned for refund. Includes: Motor Bushing (1113), Spindle Bushing (1126), Adj Motor Key (1035-B), Adj Driven Key (1095), 2 Epoxy, Motor Gage Pin (1037-OT)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.machinerypartsdepot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do NOT want these to go bad... if they do, you will end up ruining the motor armature, vari-speed pulley bores, etc. These are VERY costly to replace. The bushings are cheap and are a high wear item, requiring replacement from time to time. I would do it now. I think H&W has a video on replacing these. It's pretty easy with their kit.
> 
> Ted



Thanks for the info in both posts, Ted.  I ordered a rebuild kit with my recent order and it's coming with bushings.  I'll get those replaced. On the hi-low engagement, I see what you mean now.  I finally found some pictures that show the adjustable detent block that can be moved in that channel. That said, I can't find the part anywhere.  With a milling machine, I could make one   I see the new detent plates just have a hole milled in the location for the hi engagement.  I'm assuming some level of adjustment could be achieved by how the handle is timed on the shaft if I no longer have adjustment where the detent is located?

I think the gameplan is going to be this: make a very crude plunger with the drill press.  Use this plunger to lock the machine in low gear.  Once the machine is operational in low gear, use the machine to make the high side detent adjustment block and a new plunger. 

Does the book you mentioned show how to perform the adjustment of the hi-lo engagement while watching the bull gears?


----------



## Technical Ted

Yes, the book shows this and much, much more.... a lot of good information; well worth the price. I think you'll really benefit from it. I did. 

Here's a link that shows this missing piece in more detail:









						High-low shift lever assembly.
					

The ball does come off the handle I just had no reason to take it off.




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				




Do some searching on line and you might be able to find the missing part. If not, buy the replacement. 

If you get the new replacement part you can adjust by how the handle is "timed" as you say. You are simply adjusting the position of the bull gear (vertically meshing with the smaller pinion gear) with this adjustment. You want the two gears to be ~ flush with each other in hi and adjusted so they don't touch when in neutral. You'll also need the correct Mobil grease which you can get from H&W. 

Ted


----------



## Ceej0103

Technical Ted said:


> Yes, the book shows this and much, much more.... a lot of good information; well worth the price. I think you'll really benefit from it. I did.
> 
> Here's a link that shows this missing piece in more detail:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High-low shift lever assembly.
> 
> 
> The ball does come off the handle I just had no reason to take it off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hobby-machinist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do some searching on line and you might be able to find the missing part. If not, buy the replacement.
> 
> If you get the new replacement part you can adjust by how the handle is "timed" as you say. You are simply adjusting the position of the bull gear (vertically meshing with the smaller pinion gear) with this adjustment. You want the two gears to be ~ flush with each other in hi and adjusted so they don't touch when in neutral. You'll also need the correct Mobil grease which you can get from H&W.
> 
> Ted



Ted, thanks...I'm going to order the book now.  Looks like I can't get it for about 7 days with Amazon holding back non-essential orders.  I probably will just order the replacement instead of milling one.  Same for the plunger.  I'll pick up some of their grease when I'm at it.  I was wonder what grease I was going to use, but that will solve the problem.  What isn't clear at this point, during reassembly, is what requires grease.  I would assume anything with gears should get grease, but areas like the gears attached to the cradle assembly came out dry. Those areas weren't packed with grease and the gears were relatively clean and in good shape.  Obviously the bull gear gets grease...I've seen Barry's videos and know that part.  What about the worm gear that drives head tilt....what about the clutch assembly....what about the cradle?....so many questions.


----------



## Technical Ted

You are going to love that book! It answers all these questions and much more. The book recommends Super Lube for the head worm tilt wheel/gear. I bought a big tube of it because I use it for a lot of things and it's much cheaper this way. You can get smaller tubes if you like, but it's nice stuff to have on hand and I use it all the time for a variety of things. 






						Amazon.com : Super Lube 41150 Synthetic Grease (NLGI 2), 14.1 oz Cartridge : Industrial & Scientific
					

Amazon.com : Super Lube 41150 Synthetic Grease (NLGI 2), 14.1 oz Cartridge : Industrial & Scientific



					www.amazon.com
				




You're going to need two (2) tubes of Mobil EP-1 grease for the bull gear area. Yes, two of them because it requires a tube and a half. This is a lighter weight/viscosity grease than the typical grease you would use in a grease gun. It's NLGI #1 not #2. 

They recommend Lubriplate B-105 grease for the set screw hole marked "A" on the head (on the left side of the head). This lubricates where the mechanism slides up and down when shifting from low/hi range. I didn't buy this and if I remember correctly I just used Super Lube. To tell you the truth, I seldom drop into low range. I just spin the speed control pot for my VFD. I only drop to low when I need to do heavier work for extended time at a slower speed, which doesn't happen much for me. Using a VFD definitely has its' advantages. 

Don't grease the gears that have oil galleys lubricating them.

How's your spindle feel? Hopefully your spindle bearings are in good shape because they are very expensive (like $300-$400 for a set I believe). Check the felt in the top of the quill. If it's dirty, replace it. This keeps the crap out of your spindle bearings. The oil just drips down onto this felt from the oil cup and you want this clean so no crap gets to those expensive spindle bearings. The oil just drips out of the bottom of the spindle, but that lets you know it's getting the oil it needs!   

Ted


----------



## diamond

+1 on the book.  That plus Barry's videos and the sage advice here on this site got me through my rebuild as a complete newbie.  

You might think there's room for the full 2 tubes of the grease when packing it in around the bull gear.   I thought so and did it.  Why waste half a tube right?  Resulted in having to pull my head back apart and dig out half a tube and clean up the mess it made.


----------



## Ceej0103

Technical Ted said:


> You are going to love that book! It answers all these questions and much more. The book recommends Super Lube for the head worm tilt wheel/gear. I bought a big tube of it because I use it for a lot of things and it's much cheaper this way. You can get smaller tubes if you like, but it's nice stuff to have on hand and I use it all the time for a variety of things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com : Super Lube 41150 Synthetic Grease (NLGI 2), 14.1 oz Cartridge : Industrial & Scientific
> 
> 
> Amazon.com : Super Lube 41150 Synthetic Grease (NLGI 2), 14.1 oz Cartridge : Industrial & Scientific
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're going to need two (2) tubes of Mobil EP-1 grease for the bull gear area. Yes, two of them because it requires a tube and a half. This is a lighter weight/viscosity grease than the typical grease you would use in a grease gun. It's NLGI #1 not #2.
> 
> They recommend Lubriplate B-105 grease for the set screw hole marked "A" on the head (on the left side of the head). This lubricates where the mechanism slides up and down when shifting from low/hi range. I didn't buy this and if I remember correctly I just used Super Lube. To tell you the truth, I seldom drop into low range. I just spin the speed control pot for my VFD. I only drop to low when I need to do heavier work for extended time at a slower speed, which doesn't happen much for me. Using a VFD definitely has its' advantages.
> 
> Don't grease the gears that have oil galleys lubricating them.
> 
> How's your spindle feel? Hopefully your spindle bearings are in good shape because they are very expensive (like $300-$400 for a set I believe). Check the felt in the top of the quill. If it's dirty, replace it. This keeps the crap out of your spindle bearings. The oil just drips down onto this felt from the oil cup and you want this clean so no crap gets to those expensive spindle bearings. The oil just drips out of the bottom of the spindle, but that lets you know it's getting the oil it needs!
> 
> Ted




You're awesome, Ted.  Thanks for your time in responding to my questions.  I didn't realize, but the top-half rebuild kit actually came with the 2 tubes of Mobil EP-1 so I'm good there.  Noted on not greasing gears and such.  I've just been hitting them with a very lightweight machine oil and I slip them in to their various locations to make them slip in easy.  I see Barry uses WD40 a lot when assembling various parts of the head so I doubt a little light oil will hurt anything.  I ordered a lube kit from Blue Chip Machine Shop.  They sell a kit that includes Mobil Velocite #10, Mobil DTE, Mobil Vactra #2, and a tube of Lubriplate.  Should be all good in he lube department other than reviewing the literature on how frequently to lube various parts.  

The spindle feels really good.  Not gummy, gritty, or show any other signs that would lead me to believe the bearings are going.  I pulled the felt and the first bearing looks nice and clean.  There was no chips/debris or any other form of contamination. The felt looked dingy, but not totally nasty.  I left it as is.  

I have a lot of updates to post tonight.  Got the quill and bull gear assemblies done.  I haven't put all the grease in the bull gear housing yet as I'm waiting for a new hi lo detent plunger and plate, which come tomorrow.  I wanted to be able to install those with the bull gear housing on the bench and without a bunch of gunk in it to ensure I'm meshing correctly when the hi lo lever position is changed.  

Anyhow, update with pictures tonight.


----------



## Ceej0103

What a great surprise!!  This stuff wasn’t supposed to come until tomorrow.


----------



## Ceej0103

I can't keep track of what day of the rebuild I'm at so I'll just discontinue the counting of days. 

We'll start with aspects of the machine other than the head.  So the last remaining things to really do there is to get the lube system re-installed and then set the table.  Then I can install the remaining lead screw, dials, cranks, power feed, etc.  Problem is the lube system.  I got it cleaned out well and did some bench testing to make sure I was getting good flow through the new meters and then hooked up all my 5/32 tubing to those meters and tested good flow through those.  I didn't replace the tubing...just soaked it and blew it out. Fast forward about 3 hours and I gave up on tubing. I was so frustrated. I carefully marked each tube as I removed it to correspond to it's location on the block. Great.  I reattached each tube in that location and tried to run my lines.  About half of them were anywhere close to reaching the correct hole in the saddle/yoke.  I threw out the numbering system and just started plugging them in where I felt they should go.  As you might remember if you did this type of rehab, it's really hard to just take one fitting off from the center of the block.  You almost have to remove all of the fittings to the left or right of it to get a wrench on it.  Complicating the issue, it's not just a matter of whether it's the intended tube for the intended hole.  It matters where it plugs in to the block as to whether it will reach.  After about 3 hours of trying different configurations, I said the hell with it.  I ordered new 5/32 tube and 5/32 compression rings. I'm going to run new tubing that is cut to fit.  Lesson learned here: don't be a cheapo and just buy tubing if you're doing this job.  Spend the $20 and 1 hour of work and move on with your life. Tubing comes in Friday from Grainger.  I went through Grainger because they had different colors.  I went with blue to kind of standout from the machine.  Should look cool. 

On to the head.  The quill housing took me 2 days to reassemble. Mainly because I was finishing parts as I installed them.  I painted the housing black, but decided to just strip and somewhat polish the other parts.  They all got a coat of clear before going back on the machine. Learned a ton about the quill just doing the assembly. I'm glad I dug in to the downfeed/upfeed system and understand it now. I foresee some tinkering there at the end of the rebuild as I feel it's going to need some adjustment. Primarily the clutch aspect of the system.  It has the mod that Barry had on his video with a set screw and nut to press on the clutch, but it's actually drilled on the opposite side from where Barry showed in his video.  Odd. 

Bull gear and housing was next.  I tore the two housing pieces apart and did a thorough job cleaning them, polishing, and then clear coating.  While they set up, I broke down the small gear and put two new bearings on it.  I did the same with the large bull gear and everything went well.  I was a little freaked out by the bottom bearing of the large bull gear wanting to press back out against the wavy washer, but soon realized that it would get pushed in nicely with the slotted nut that holds that assembly together.  I dropped those assemblies in to the housing and put it on the machine.  I played a bit with the hi/lo lever, but didn't have the plunger/plate yet in the mail so couldnt finish it.  Good thing I didnt, because I totally forgot to put the 3 springs under the bull gear.  I pulled it off the machine this morning, put in the springs, and then realized I got that package I needed and was able to assemble the hi/lo lever.  Pushing the large gear down to mesh with the small while trying to place the hi/lo shaft was challenging, so I used some clamps to pull it down.  Low and behold, my new book recommended the same method.  Great minds... 

I realized quickly that the lever on the hi/lo selector was some other variation and that my detent was made to work with the variation that had a ball end on it.  Mine has basically a blunt end with a 90 degree tooth at the end.  I wasn't waiting longer, so I just hit the diamond grinding wheel with the end of the lever until I got it to move freely inside the detent.  I'll put that part on order and replace with the proper part, to avoid rapid wear, when it comes in.  

Last item for the day was grease packing. Got that done and replaced the cover to the large bull gear and the cover guide for the small gear.  And in writing this I just realized I forgot to put the wavy spring washer under that cap.  I'm going to go back out to the garage and do that right now before I forget.


----------



## Ceej0103

Last update before the LAST update.  Today I got the rest of the belt housing stripped, polished, and clear coated.  I pulled the mandrel from the vari-disc to reveal some well-seated bushings (I glued them up last night).  To my surprise, the disc on the motor side had these green bushings that I later learned were turcite bushings and are an older style.  Pulling them would have resulted in not being able to use the disc as the replacement black bushings are too small.  I left those alone.  They appeared to be in good shape anyway with a decent grip on the shaft still.  I couldn't create any axial play in the bushings when installed on the motor shaft.  

I replaced the chain on the variable speed dial and the dial itself.  Once re-installed in to the belt housing, that went back on the machine followed by the tilt plate screws, followed by the top bearing cap.  Everything slid together like butter.  I have all of the housings just finger tight and will run the the machine a little to let it all settle before I torque them down. 

I also got the motor and electrical housing stripped, cleaned, and painted.  Paint should be dry by morning.  So the last remaining items are the lube lines, table, lead screw, and reassembling/installing the motor.  The lube lines from grainger were the wrong ID.  I refused the package when it was dropped as to avoid return shipping.  Once again, just order from H&W to avoid hassle.  How many times must I learn this lesson?  Called Debbi after placing the order and asked her to change the shipping to next day as I simply am too impatient to wait any longer to install the lube lines.  Those should be here before 12noon Saturday.  By that time I'll already have the motor mounted.  By end of day tomorrow, the machine will be operational.  I'll still need to replace the elevator shaft when that comes in (backorder) and sort out the VFD.  

One more update tomorrow and I'll send some video of the machine cutting something.


----------



## hwelecrepair

Ceej0103 said:


> Once again, just order from H&W to avoid hassle.  How many times must I learn this lesson?



There are so many memes and gif's I could go with on this one.  I left early yesterday, but Debbi was packing that up as I was leaving.  It isnt often we do Saturday delivery.

Jon


----------



## ttabbal

There's a reason they are the first place I go for BP parts. They nearly always have it, reasonably priced, and ship fast. None of the stupid marking something shipped and waiting a week to give it to the carrier.


----------



## Ceej0103

ttabbal said:


> There's a reason they are the first place I go for BP parts. They nearly always have it, reasonably priced, and ship fast. None of the stupid marking something shipped and waiting a week to give it to the carrier.



Indeed, my experience has been fantastic.  Order at night after business hours and I have a notification by 1000 the next morning and a package 48 later.  Top notch.


----------



## Ceej0103

I know you guys are sitting on the edge of your seats, but must make you wait longer. Been distracted/busy and not quite done with the machine yet and not ready to debut it to the thread. Should be soon!


----------



## hwelecrepair

I am not sure if its possible, but I have been looking for the gif of Judge Judy doing the watch tapping on her wrist.  

Jon


----------



## Ceej0103

Video update for you guys. Let me know if you can answer any of the issues I’m having. Thanks!


----------



## Ceej0103

Check out this score from the auction I posted about. Got a lot for $100 that included 16 of these chunks of stainless. I was thinking about ordering those fancy outrigger leveling feet but now I think I found my first milling job!

all are the same dimension which is 1” x 3” x 48”

got a lot of round stock also. Aluminum, stainless, and some various steels I’ve never seen. I should be in business for a while.


----------



## brino

Steel or steal! 

Either way Congrats.
-brin


----------



## ttabbal

Looks good! 

For the quill feed, I had a problem with a couple of things being bound up with crud. Your description of how you think it should work is how mine does now. In my case, disassembling, cleaning and lubricating got it going. It sounds like yours is still trying to feed even after you move the lever back, I suspect that's the root of your problem. 

The limit setup for my power feed is using those holes, but mine is entirely mechanical. It physically moves the engagement lever. My machine has the old style gearbox power feed, so it's a little different. It seems like a good way to handle the electronic switch version as well though.


----------



## Technical Ted

On your speed change going the wrong way... yes, you have the chain wrapped the wrong way. Remove the face plate and wrap it the other way and you'll be all set.

The table travel limit switch is typically mounted on those two holes in the front and the stops are adjusted in the front T slot. Either bend that bracket or make a piece to go behind it. 

Quill feed clutch not kicking out: Will it kick out if you manually push up on that vertical rod (feed trip plunger) that the teeter totter arm (feed trip lever) hits on? If so, then something in either that rod or the teeter totter pivot/arm is worn and bent. Try pushing up hard on that plunger. If you can make it trip by working it manually, then you'll know where the problems is (or isn't). Yes, it could also be the clutch itself or an adjustment of it, but seems to me I had an issue with one of the linkages I mentioned above at one point. Anything loose, worn or bent in any of those trip parts could cause that problem.


Good work!
Ted


----------



## Ceej0103

@ttabbal and @Technical Ted thanks for your responses. Good info on the limit switch. I have a path forward now

For the down feed, I’m just going to attach another video. The feed does not kick out when I press up hard on the rocker. I can see the shaft move up and I can hear it let go of the block, but it just doesn’t kick out hard like I’ve seen other machines.  Here’s some more videos and more questions!


----------



## Technical Ted

Range just changes spindle direction, period. Engaging backgear changes spindle direction, so you need to reverse spindle (motor) direction.

Grease in hole "A". Squeeze it in and estimate the volume.

I'm not familiar with that grease/oil? fitting in the front... never seen one there before. Maybe someone else can help??? I'd have to see where the grease/oil would end up going when the head was taken apart... Remember, some zerts take oil not grease. 

Looks like there's is something up in the kick out linkage. Removing the ball: Never had this issue, but the ball needs to come out. Can you make a small scraper out of an old small file and work the hole around the perimeter of the ball to open the hole up? Must be the hole is burred over holding the ball in. Or, maybe if you have a small rotary file bit on a Dremel (or whatever) you can work the hole opening??? You might ruin the ball, but they are easy to replace. 

Speed change. Open it up; you should not have to remove the pin. Just re-wrap the chain in the correct rotation (direction) by turning the crank the other way when you have it removed. IIRC, this is all you have to do. I had the same issue when I assembled my first one. 

Good luck,
Ted


----------



## Ceej0103

Technical Ted said:


> Range just changes spindle direction, period. Engaging backgear changes spindle direction, so you need to reverse spindle (motor) direction.
> 
> Grease in hole "A". Squeeze it in and estimate the volume.
> 
> I'm not familiar with that grease/oil? fitting in the front... never seen one there before. Maybe someone else can help??? I'd have to see where the grease/oil would end up going when the head was taken apart... Remember, some zerts take oil not grease.
> 
> Looks like there's is something up in the kick out linkage. Removing the ball: Never had this issue, but the ball needs to come out. Can you make a small scraper out of an old small file and work the hole around the perimeter of the ball to open the hole up? Must be the hole is burred over holding the ball in. Or, maybe if you have a small rotary file bit on a Dremel (or whatever) you can work the hole opening??? You might ruin the ball, but they are easy to replace.
> 
> Speed change. Open it up; you should not have to remove the pin. Just re-wrap the chain in the correct rotation (direction) by turning the crank the other way when you have it removed. IIRC, this is all you have to do. I had the same issue when I assembled my first one.
> 
> Good luck,
> Ted



Thanks, Ted. So after pulling the speed dial, finagling out the SHCS from behind to pull the shaft, I realized that the set screw in the front of the dial (behind the speed indicator plate) is a limiter that stops the shaft from continuing its travel. I backed out the set screw and was able to just crank the wheel until the shaft had essentially flipped the chain to the other side and now all is working as intended.

thanks again!  I’ll try working that ball out. I’ve tried to get a small pick down there but no joy.


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## Technical Ted

Had a couple of seconds tonight so I looked at the book we both now have. On page 68 it gives detailed directions on removing that collar you are struggling with. You have to push the feed reverse knob inward to lock the shaft. This might push the ball out of that hole/detent.

Read that section again and make sure you're not missing something. That ball should just fall right out.

Good luck,
Ted


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## Ceej0103

Technical Ted said:


> Had a couple of seconds tonight so I looked at the book we both now have. On page 68 it gives detailed directions on removing that collar you are struggling with. You have to push the feed reverse knob inward to lock the shaft. This might push the ball out of that hole/detent.
> 
> Read that section again and make sure you're not missing something. That ball should just fall right out.
> 
> Good luck,
> Ted



Ted, I ended up getting it out. When I took the machine apart, I had to cut the collar off because the ball wouldnt come.  I also had to cut a very small groove next to the ball on the shaft so I could get a pick under it to pop it out.  Then, not learning my lesson, I proceeded to reassemble the machine without fixing the issue.  Anhow, that groove is still there and allowed me to get a pick under it and just heave it out.  Once out, I took a chamfering bit to the hole to remove any edges that were rolled over.  Also use a needle file to make sure the ball was slipping in and out as intended.  Good to go now. 

Still haven't fixed my downfeed issue after pulling apart the whole assembly and cleaning it well to ensure there's no gunk in it.  I think it's back in the clutch area. Like that spring/pin isn't doing enough work to throw the lever back. I may go to ace and grab a stiffer spring and see what happens.  Start narrowing things down.


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## Lo-Fi

I've literally just overhauled the feed limit mech on my machine. Few notes:

The round bushing should slide off with the ball still in its pocket. At least it does on mine. Sure its not a burr on the other side with the grub screw over the keyway? 

Remove the rocker at the bottom, it's likely either bent or the adjustment screw is missing or damaged. Or, the tiny rocker for the up feed stop at the top is broken or bent prevent the shaft from moving smoothly, which is also not unlikely. Looks like the plunger isn't moving upwards quite enough to knock the pin out of the pocket to release the drive. 

The play in the lever is normal, you'll understand when you get it off. It's an interesting little mechanism. 

Good luck


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## jmarkwolf

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but the downfeed screw, that your depth stop nut nut is on, needs to be free to slide up and down about 3/8", and the teetering lever at the bottom end (can't remember the name) of this same screw needs to be free to teeter. Other wise it can prevent the depth stop kick out from occurring properly.


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