# Automate 1032vmc



## Doubleeboy (Apr 4, 2016)

Hi All,     Looking to buy my first CNC mill.  I am not opposed to used but all I can find is beat, too large for my shop and electrical service.  I am limited by 8' doors, 9' ceilings and need to limit a 3 phase motor to 6hp or so.  I would jump at a nice Haas Mini Mill if it were in good shape and recent with reasonable price but that does not seem to happen very often in Oregon.

http://www.smithy.com/am-1032-bed-mill

I have checked out the AutoMate online and spent some time via email corresponding to the company (Smithy) and their tech seems pretty upfront.  Its a Chinese machine, built to their specs.  I have not seen the machine in person and would like to know if anyone around here as seen one or know of anyone who uses one.  The story I got from Smithy is that they are selling mostly to small shops hence not much talk or videos of them in action on line.  The one reference I have spoken with likes the machine and is making money with it in his gunsmithing shop, does not regret the purchase, said tech support from Detroit Machine (smithy) is good.

If anyone here has any input I am all ears.

thanks
michael


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## tmarks11 (Apr 4, 2016)

The 1032 bed mill is the same mill that Novakon sells as the Torus Pro, except that Smithy is up-spec'ing it with an industrial controller instead of Mach 3, a servo spindle, a 3/4 enclosure, BT30 tooling and a ATC.  Recommend you go to both the Smithy and the Novakon forums on cnczone and read some user reviews.

The Smithy price is a reasonable price compared to the Novakon once you consider what those upgrades would run.

By and large, Novakon users love their machine.  Not a lot of owners of the current 1032 offering, but they have sold it in the past in a stripped down form that more closely resembled Novakon's version.


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 4, 2016)

I do not think the AutoMate is same machine as Torus Pro, isn't the Pro dovetail slideways.  There is a substantial weight difference in machines, the Automate has smaller x travel but weights considerably more.

I will go check out CNC zone and read about the Torus again, not much on smithy accept a few comments by Cade in which you were involved.

cheers
michael


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## tmarks11 (Apr 4, 2016)

hmm, I missed that.

Didn't notice that they had updated to linear ways when they up-shifted their offerings.  That makes the machine look even more reasonably priced; the extra $10.5k is buying quite a few improvements.

What made me think this was the Torus Pro was the first extra picture on the 1032VMC page, where it shows the back of the vertical column, which is clearly the same as the Torus. But after looking at it again (as compared to the other 1032VMC pictures), it really looks like they have scrambled their picture set, and that is actually a picture of their old mill that they discontinued... even the BL1032 is slightly different.

Smithy had a lot of scrambled pictures on their lathe offerings (which I have been drooling over), the SL6 page shows a couple different castings (which was clearly impossible). They said they would clean it up.

But I agree, the 1032VMC is clearly a different machine, and I don't think it has its roots in the Torus Pro design.




Smithy used to sell a bed mill that was exactly the same as the Torus Pro.  But now that I have looked closer at all their photos (except for the one above), it really looks like they no longer carry that model.   Even the BL1032 (which has dovetail X &Y) has a different geometry to the column then the Torus.

The BL1032 also seems to be a much better deal than the Torus Pro ($14.7k vs 15.5k for the Torus Pro Servo version): it has a PDB and BT30 spindle, both options on the stock Torus Pro. Plus, it has an industrial controller.


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 5, 2016)

Its odd that there is almost no mention of these machines on online forums or youtube.  Cade seems like an okay fellow, seems to know his stuff, but the communication leaves a bit to be desired.  I am a serious buyer and have the funds.   I am hesitant to pull on trigger on the word of only one of their customers 2500 miles away.  I suspect but do not know for a fact that they have sold not many of these machines.

michael


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## tmarks11 (Apr 5, 2016)

Smithy has really seemed to dabble in hobby level cnc for a long time.  First it was the Sieg KX1 and KX3, then it was the Novakon NM200, now it looks like the have jumped in with both feet with a large product line.

I think you don't see very many customers for their current machinery yet because they just jumped (last year) from the relatively cheap stuff ($3k-$11k) to some semi-pro equipment.  There is one guy on the cnc zone smithy forum who just bought one of their lathes, and he seems happy (so far), although he hasn't posted much about it yet.

One "comforting fact" is that they have been in business selling machinery for a long, long time.  So they are not a fly-by-night company that is going to disappear, leaving you with a non-working $20K lump of precision junk.

If I was going to buy, I would take a trip to their showroom to look at the machines and talk to their salesman.  This is a lot of money to spend sight unseen.  I flew down to CA to look at Novakon and Tormach before I bought my Tormach 1100 (and that is a lot less money).



Doubleeboy said:


> Its odd that there is almost no mention of these machines on online forums or youtube.


Bolton Hardware is another one in that odd niche.  They have had a similar lineup to Smithy for awhile, and they are currently selling a machine (BT24L) that looks just like the 1032VMC.  But you NEVER ready anything about any of their machines.  And they have been marketing cnc for at least 5 years.

http://boltontool.com/Lathes/milling-machine/3-axis-cnc-mill-with-10-position-atc

I think I would be more inclined to buy from Smithy than from Bolton, even if it costs a few bucks more.  Smithy is focused on the machining market whereas it is just another product in a box for Bolton.


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 5, 2016)

Thank you for your insight Tim.  Its a chunk of change for me to fly to Smithy for a look, but Kade and the machine will be in LA in a couple weeks for a show and tell, I am in the process of trying to fit into their schedule so I can see machine under power making chips.  If it does not work out I will likely suck it up and spend the grand to fly east.   I totally agree about seeing the machine.    I have considered the Torus Pro, and its a fall back option but bang for the buck the AutoMate looks awfully good.   If the tolerances published in their online manual are true its a pretty tight machine. 

Thank you again for your thoughts
cheers
michael


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## tmarks11 (Apr 6, 2016)

Well if you buy one, I will swing by and check it out next time I am your neck of the would (in-laws live in Albany, OR, my wife and I went to school at OSU).


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 6, 2016)

Go Beavers!!!!  nice work by the Womens BB team.

Ya, I made my flight reservation today for LA in a couple weeks.   Its possible I may buy the machine they are demoing in LA to save 1000 miles of shipping, might be worth it.  Kade asked me what kind of part I wanted made for my demo, which will be early in the morning before their actual show starts.  I did not have one in particular other than 3D with curves in steel.  My main concerns are ; overall feel of machine, what it sounds like, chip to chip speed of ATC, does PDB lock up tight without issues, does it sound like a bucket of bolts or a well designed machine and what kind of vibration is there when running hi speed feeds or rapids.  As they are doing a show I don't know if they will be running flood so I may not get to see how well it drains, or leaks, but I suspect I will run a FogBuster anyhow, so not an issue really.   I suspect I will be pleased, but if not, I am prepared to go home empty handed and look for used Haas or the like.  I am limited by power supply and door and ceiling issues.  This machine would be perfect size wise, I could fit in, power it with current 10HP rotary, and still be able to run one other machine at same time.

I will let you know how it all turns out.

michael


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## tmarks11 (Apr 8, 2016)

What show are they down there for?  And are they bringing any lathes?


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## Steve Shannon (Apr 8, 2016)

Western Montana isn't much different in distance than LA. There's a Wasino CNC LV24M for sale for $3200. I have no connection to the seller. Here's the description:
make / manufacturer: Wasino
model name / number: LV24m

This CNC vertical turn/mill center has some very unique capabilities. We were going to machine bolt action rifle receivers with it. We purchased this several years ago, and have never had it under power. Plans changed, and now I am ready to sell at a big loss. Need the space. A well tooled machine, has a 10 inch chuck, and various tool holders. Features a Fanuc 10T CNC control. Have quite a few spare parts for it including a replacement operators' panel. It was functional when we purchased it, and I have kept the batteries for the parameters fresh. Comes with complete documentation.

https://kalispell.craigslist.org/tls/5425025521.html



 Steve Shannon


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 8, 2016)

Tim,
Its a TV show taping, something about robots.... BattleBots or something, i don't watch TV so I am clueless, I just know that they will have the Mill there so before taping of the show starts one morning early I have been invited to check machine out under power for a short bit.   A whole lot cheaper than flying to Detroit then renting a car to go to Smithy.  The tech for Smithy will machine a part of my choosing out of steel for my demo.   If I like it, that is the machine that will be shipped to me.  It will be the machine with ATC, and advanced model of controller .  I do not know if they will have a lathe there.


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## tmarks11 (Apr 9, 2016)

Doubleeboy said:


> ...they will have the Mill there so before taping of the show starts one morning early I have been invited to check machine out under power for a short bit...


nice. take some pictures...



Steve Shannon said:


> Western Montana isn't much different in distance than LA. There's a Wasino CNC LV24M for sale for $3200....purchased this several years ago, and have never had it under power. Plans changed, and now I am ready to sell at a big loss. ...Have quite a few spare parts for it including a replacement operators' panel. It was functional when we purchased it...


First of all that is not really a mill, but a vertical-turn machine.  You can do some mill-like functions on it, but it is really kind of specialized.

Lots of red flags in that FS add:
1. Sounds like you don't get to see it under power. A huge mistake in buying OLD (27+ years) cnc equipment.
2. Selling it at a big loss.  If it is not working for them, why would it work for you?
3. Great that it comes with a lot of spare parts... but...why?  Have they been trying to fix it?
4. Fanuc 10T.  You would be buying a machine with a 1988 controller in it.  Good thing it comes with lots of spare parts.
5. Fuzzy pictures. Harder to see the rust and the wear and tear.
6. "It was functional when we bought it".  Sure, pull the other one, its got bells on it.

If I was going to drive somewhere to look for buying used machinery, it would be LA, not Montana.  Same distance?  sure.  But in LA, you can shop between dozens of used machines, not just one.  And if the OP has a $20k budget, he can find something a lot more up-to-date than a clapped out 27 year old machine.


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## Steve Shannon (Apr 9, 2016)

Thank you for taking the time to explain this. All good points that I didn't know or hadn't considered, although I'm not sure why a person couldn't see it under power. 
Still, a tax write off trip to Glacier National Park country rather than LA, 


 Steve Shannon, P.E.


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## tmarks11 (Apr 10, 2016)

Steve Shannon said:


> ...although I'm not sure why a person couldn't see it under power.


If in all the years they have owned it they haven't managed to hook up power to it (it probably requires 3 phase, and possibly 480V, which they may not have available), and if they are "selling it at a sharply discounted rate", I am betting they aren't going to wire it up for a potential customer.

Generally "It was functional when we bought it...never had it under power" is short-hand for "it doesn't work now and we don't know how to fix it".  Old machines can turn into a money pit, which is why businesses get rid of them to unsuspecting hobbyists.


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## tmarks11 (Apr 16, 2016)

Doubleeboy said:


> Ya, I made my flight reservation today for LA in a couple weeks.


So when is the demo?


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 17, 2016)

*Wednesday*


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## tmarks11 (Apr 21, 2016)

So what did you think of the AutoMate?


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 22, 2016)

I bought it, should be here within a week or so.


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## tmarks11 (Apr 22, 2016)

awesome!  looking forward to seeing some pics.


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## Doubleeboy (Apr 22, 2016)

The part of the show and tell that was most surprising to me,  was that they had a couple small machines there including their flagship 3 in 1 machine.  Never having considered a 3  in 1 for my use I gave them in the past no attention.   Seeing one close up surprised me,  it appears to be a very well constructed machine with a very nice looking milling table on it.  Not something I need or want, but if I was a newbie with limited budget and space I might consider it.   After spending time with Kade and talking via phone with the folks back in Michigan, I sense they are very concerned with customer service and success.  The owner of company has an interesting history, sounds like a pretty straight up guy and company.  I thought Kade was very straight with me about the machines strengths and what its weak spot might be.

When I get it I will get you some pics or maybe Kade has some good ones and I can forward them to you
cheers
michael


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## tmarks11 (Jun 12, 2016)

Get your machine yet?


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## Doubleeboy (Jun 13, 2016)

Yup got it a few weeks ago.  Been to busy around the farm to do much yet, but its set up and works.


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## tmarks11 (Jun 13, 2016)

excellent.


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