# X/Y vise



## DavidR8 (Oct 17, 2020)

So my new drill press came with a Jacob brand 4" X/Y vise.
Like this one:


I spent some time cleaning it up tonight and frankly it's not that great. The Y-axis travel is pretty smooth, but the X is quite grabby. I think maybe a bushing in the fitting that holds the X-axis lead screw to the body is worn. 
Wondering if anyone has any experience with these contraptions...
I do have a 5" 'normal' drill press vise also that I can easily thrown one if this thing annoys me too much...


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## addertooth (Oct 17, 2020)

Yes, I have used one.  Once cleaned up, and the dovetails stoned, it can be used to position work, but it lacks the rigidity to do any serious slotting.  I suppose in a post apocalyptical "Mad Max" circumstance, I would consider using it to make a slot in 1/16th to 1/8th thick aluminum, but that would be a stretch.


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## Joe in Oz (Oct 17, 2020)

I have one of these and found the same issues.
To make it useful, I totally dismantled it and scraped in all sliding surfaces and then fitted properly sized bronze bushes and thrust washers to the X and y spindles.
It is now a very useful vice!
If you know enough about scraping and blueing on a surface plate, I'm happy to help you deciding the order of surfaces to scrap - if you need help.
Cheers
Joe

Cheers
Joe


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## ThinWoodsman (Oct 17, 2020)

I've got one of those gathering dust on a shelf in the shop. Bought it for the drill press, replaced it with an X-Y table that has a standard drill press vise bolted to up. Much more versatile (not to mention rigid) set up.

Can't find a use for the old X/Y vise. Sounds like it might at least make a project to learn scraping.


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## Janderso (Oct 17, 2020)

Joe, What you did to your vise sounds like a worthwhile adventure into basic machine tool rebuilding.
Do you have any pics of your rebuild?
Mine is a piece of garbage as it is.
Your not alone David.
Slotting is done on the mill.


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## C-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

I found mine very convenient when I used it for its intended use. And it’s a funky HF version, probably worse than yours. I found out the hard way you don’t do even crude milling on a drill press. The chuck will come loose. But to do the next level accuracy above just setting something in a DP vise free on the table and hanging on, it works. No it’s not super smooth, but it was way more convenient to get right where I wanted it, and to move a hole over just a bit. Way easier than moving the clamps and having the clamps move the vise when tightened. If I need precision, that’s what the mill is for. I also had an old Palmgren xy rotary table and it’s a bit smoother and better finished than the HF, not good enough for the mill, so it’s what’s on the DP now. I also had a prismatic jaw I’d picked up somewhere and it fit on the HF xy vise and made it even handier for drilling round stock.


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## Joe in Oz (Oct 17, 2020)

I've only got a couple of photos during painting and first assembly - before fitting the lead screw bushes. I might take some current ones in the next few days....


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## DavidR8 (Oct 17, 2020)

Joe in Oz said:


> I've only got a couple of photos during painting and first assembly - before fitting the lead screw bushes. I might take some current ones in the next few days....


Thanks Joe, the condition mine is in is about a light year away from yours!
I've never scraped anything except my knees when I was a kid 
Don't have a surface plate but it definitely on my list.


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## matthewsx (Oct 17, 2020)

David,

Since you already have a mill the best use for this tool might be offering it for sale and buying a good DP vise. I'm sure it can be improved but it will never be as accurate or useful as your RF-30. If you want something to learn scraping on there are probably better projects out there.

JMHO,

John


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## aliva (Oct 17, 2020)

I bought one years ago from Busy Bee piece of Chinese junk. Took it apart saved the acme screws and handles. scrapped the rest.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 17, 2020)

I don’t think it’s a great candidate for rebuilding as it’s taken a number of direct hits. Spared the table thankfully!
(This is 100% cleaner than it was when I bought the press)







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## francist (Oct 17, 2020)

Welding vise....?.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 17, 2020)

francist said:


> Welding vise....?.



That’s what I’m thinking... it’s pretty rough. 


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## francist (Oct 17, 2020)

I drape a scrap of heavy vinyl over the screws if I have clamps nearby — keeps the spatter off.


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## C-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

Hmmm, so what’s the true piece o‘ junk here? The vise or the bozo X operator? No wonder the thing is glitchy, looks like somebody opened up on it with a machine gun! Couple of near misses on the table too by the pics.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 17, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> Hmmm, so what’s the true piece o‘ junk here? The vise or the bozo X operator? No wonder the thing is glitchy, looks like somebody opened up on it with a machine gun! Couple of near misses on the table too by the pics.



Yeah, I’m glad the vise took the brunt of the barrage. The only damage to the table is the ring visible in the lower right corner. 
Otherwise the table is perfect. 
I’ll use my 5” drill press vise for now and relegate this thing to welding duty as @francist suggested. 


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## ericc (Oct 17, 2020)

I have one of these vises, and the screws and dovetails are useless.  I just leave it loose unless something needs to be restrained.  Then, I tighten the stupid gib wingnut and do fine positioning by sliding the base around.  One of the screws was so bad, I permanently removed it.  That axis is just pushed around.  Another problem is that you cannot drill straight using parallels.  The center bar is proud of the ways, so if you put parallels down, they teeter-toter.  Also, there is a huge casting void next to the fixed jaw, so the parallel sits at the wrong height.  If I need to drill something straight, I use an angle plate or 123 blocks.

This tool is useful for holding small pieces and is safer than holding parts in your hand.  It doesn't even clamp that tightly.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 18, 2020)

I pulled the X/Y vise off tonight and filled up my 5” drill press vise. 
To remove some slop I milled a few thou off the bottom boss where the retainer/sliding plate attaches. Definitely snugged things up. 


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## yendor (Oct 21, 2020)

You always need a project sitting on deck.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 21, 2020)

yendor said:


> You always need a project sitting on deck.


I've got so many projects on deck it's like I'm the captain of an aircraft carrier!


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## francist (Oct 21, 2020)

That’s brilliant!


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## Cadillac STS (Oct 22, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> I don’t think it’s a great candidate for rebuilding as it’s taken a number of direct hits. Spared the table thankfully!
> (This is 100% cleaner than it was when I bought the press)
> 
> 
> ...


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## MrWhoopee (Oct 27, 2020)

I've often looked at these and thought "what the hell good is that?" I figured they were kind of like those fishing lures that catch fishermen instead of fish.  I'm surprised to hear that some people find them useful.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 27, 2020)

I bought one from HF years ago and sorted it out so I could use it as a milling vise on my drill press before I got a mill. Did a bunch of work - made new gibs, made proper bearing supports (including thrust bearings) for the screws, improved the hold down of the moving jaw and added digital calipers to each axis. It wasn't great, but it did the job and I still use it today on my drill press, even though I now have a mill.


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## Cadillac STS (Oct 27, 2020)

I say everything in a drill press needs to be clamped down.  No hand holding for safety and accuracy.  

The X-Y table makes things easier.  Say you want to drill and tap a hole.  You need to clamp it somehow.  With the XY table you clamp it in, bring it to the spot with the XY table and lock the gibs and you are good to go.  

You can and most probably do clamp a vise to the table and work that around, bump it back and forth each different way to get it in place then tighten the clamp to hold it, to get things set where you want them but the XY makes it easier.  With the work held secure just turn the screws to get it right on the spot.


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## hman (Oct 27, 2020)

MrWhoopee said:


> I figured they were kind of like those fishing lures that catch fishermen instead of fish.


... which is to say ... ALL fishing lures


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## C-Bag (Oct 28, 2020)

Everybody is different and doing projects differently. My HF xy vise sat on the shelf for over a year after I bought it and tried it and it didn’t do what I wanted at the time. Then one day the light went on for the project at hand and I mounted it up, did a couple of mods and couldn’t live without it after that. Not until I upgraded my DP was I able to go to the next level of xy rotary table and speed vise or I’d still be using the old xy vise. I’m just glad I could pass the old xy vise on to a fellow H-M to try out for free. He can always bring it back if it doesn’t work out and I’ll find someone else to pay it forward to.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 28, 2020)

C-Bag said:


> Everybody is different and doing projects differently. My HF xy vise sat on the shelf for over a year after I bought it and tried it and it didn’t do what I wanted at the time. Then one day the light went on for the project at hand and I mounted it up, did a couple of mods and couldn’t live without it after that. Not until I upgraded my DP was I able to go to the next level of xy rotary table and speed vise or I’d still be using the old xy vise. I’m just glad I could pass the old xy vise on to a fellow H-M to try out for free. He can always bring it back if it doesn’t work out and I’ll find someone else to pay it forward to.



Do you recall its shortcomings and what you did to remedy them?


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## C-Bag (Oct 28, 2020)

DavidR8 said:


> Do you recall its shortcomings and what you did to remedy them?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Kinda the usual stuff with HF. Did some cleaning deburring on the gibs and ways. Changed the gib clamp under the vise screw to a Allen head screw so I could tighten it if needed. I installed a prismatic jaw I’d picked up somewhere that had the correct spacing of the mount screws. Which didn’t work on any other vise I have. Great for holding shafts horizontal or vertical. Was also ok for flats. The center guide shaft on mine was not proud of the vise base so to hold flats level I used my adjustable parallel to support the other end. I was getting close to making another set of jaws for it when the UniDrill came along and made the whole thing moot. The last mod I did to it was cut and mill the boss the vise screw goes through. I was doing something and the boss was at least double what it needed to be and it was making the vise not open as wide as advertised.


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## mattthemuppet2 (Oct 28, 2020)

I can't speak for c-bag, but on mine there was a lot of back and forth slop in the screws, plus they bound up in certain directions due to a lack of thrust bearing. The Y axis (bottom one) has always been looser in the middle so it still requires fiddling with the lock screws if I'm working on something at either extreme of the travel. The top axis is fine though and was made better with a new gib and extra gib screws. The big downside to these tables in general though is that if you have something really large (like a 4ft long 2x4), it's a pain to balance it on top of the jaws as you no longer have a large flat table to rest it on. Most of my work is small though, so it's rarely an annoyance.

Here are a couple of pics of mine, including with my drill press in "mill" mode


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## C-Bag (Oct 28, 2020)

mattthemuppet2 said:


> I can't speak for c-bag, but on mine there was a lot of back and forth slop in the screws, plus they bound up in certain directions due to a lack of thrust bearing. The Y axis (bottom one) has always been looser in the middle so it still requires fiddling with the lock screws if I'm working on something at either extreme of the travel. The top axis is fine though and was made better with a new gib and extra gib screws. The big downside to these tables in general though is that if you have something really large (like a 4ft long 2x4), it's a pain to balance it on top of the jaws as you no longer have a large flat table to rest it on. Most of my work is small though, so it's rarely an annoyance.
> 
> Here are a couple of pics of mine, including with my drill press in "mill" mode
> View attachment 342180
> ...


Truly a study in YMMV.
Mine has play in the lead screws and a couple of glitches in the dovetails but that didn’t matter to me. I am not machining, I’m drilling holes only. So I get to my mark, lock the locks and drill. It stays right where I want it and I don’t have undo clamps and muddle about changing right where I want it. It’s just a drill press vise to me, not super precision. That’s what my old worn out mill drill is for


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## hman (Oct 28, 2020)

Just for fun ...
Here are a couple of mods I added to a slightly larger X-Y table.  Might be applicable for use with a drill press vise.
1.  Added a threaded rod and two "thumb release" nuts, to allow setting two reference points, or quickly locking the position of that axis.  Also note the polycarbonate extensions on the base, used to mount Magswitches.  The magswitches cling AMAZINGLY well to steel or cast iron tables and allow repositioning the slide, then securing it in position without additional clamps or whatnot
	

		
			
		

		
	




2. Stuck a length of self-adhesive ruler to the other axis and scribed a reference mark on the base.  Helps in setting up.  Tapped an additional hole behind the gibs of the two axes.  The socket head screws can be used to lock the position.  Better view of the Magswitches.


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## DavidR8 (Oct 28, 2020)

hman said:


> Just for fun ...
> Here are a couple of mods I added to a slightly larger X-Y table.  Might be applicable for use with a drill press vise.
> 1.  Added a threaded rod and two "thumb release" nuts, to allow setting two reference points, or quickly locking the position of that axis.  Also note the polycarbonate extensions on the base, used to mount Magswitches.  The magswitches cling AMAXINGLY well to steel or cast iron tables and allow repositioning the slide, then securing it in position without additional clamps or whatnot
> 
> ...


Ok that looks like a proper piece of kit!


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