# Seig Sx2.7 Milling Machine



## Stephen krupa (Jan 28, 2016)

Hi Guys,

I was wondering if anyone has first hand knowledge to provide a review of a Seig SX2.7 Bench Mill Drill.  I was at the Cabin Fever Expo in PA and saw first hand Little Machine Shop's 5500 mill, which to my knowledge, is a clone of the Seig SX2.7.  LMS is presently out of stock of this machine.

There are several videos on YouTube featuring Frank Hoose's review of the Sieg SX2.7  model; very impressive to this beginner.  It has DRO for both speed and spindle depth and the quill moves itself as opposed to the whole head.  I find those desirable features.  But again, I just wanted to inquire if anyone has firsthand experience with this machine.

Thanks in advance,
Steve Krupa


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## matthew-s (Feb 26, 2016)

I'm interested in this machine too, so figured I'd bump.  Looks like there is almost no first person info available on this machine.  

Is the 5500 really an sx2.7 or is it a g0704/pm25mv variant, which I think Aimee call the BF20?


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## Stephen krupa (Mar 2, 2016)

Matthew,

I not that sure regarding comparisons of each of these machines.  I believe LMS  said that their 5500 was a twin of the SX2.7.   The 5500 just came on market.  Maybe the SX2.7 is arriving at this time also? I have inquired on this Forum regarding the SX2.7 to no avail.  I can't believe that there is no one who has one that won't chime in with their review of it.  Unless, with the LMS 5500 and the SX2.7 being in fact, twins, they both arrive on our shores at the same time and no one has received theirs yet.

Steve


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## matthew-s (Mar 2, 2016)

Yes. Well I eventually saw on the LMS site that it is a 2.7. I'm embarrassed that I missed it in the post subject.  I agree the Hoose video makes it look great.   I am a rank beginner. Based on my interests (model steam, MAYBE a loco up to 3/4" scale) the SX2 class machine may be plenty. I'm not sure yet.


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## Fossilbones (Apr 17, 2016)

If you have the money go for X3 mill. I have an X2 and its only suitable for really light work and I have just broken my first plastic gear in the motor drive. If you go with your original choice then decide on what work you will be doing, cutter sizes and how long it will take with an x2


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## salindroth (Jul 19, 2016)

I'm also thinking about upgrading my mini-mill to the SX2.7 (LMS) or SX3 (Grizzly).  Moving the SX3 worries me -- lifting it up to the workbench will not be easy (ceiling's too low for a shop crane). Maybe this is a good excuse to get a new workbench with heavy casters...


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## Fossilbones (Jul 19, 2016)

Stephen krupa said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has first hand knowledge to provide a review of a Seig SX2.7 Bench Mill Drill.  I was at the Cabin Fever Expo in PA and saw first hand Little Machine Shop's 5500 mill, which to my knowledge, is a clone of the Seig SX2.7.  LMS is presently out of stock of this machine.
> 
> ...


Use an engine mobile crane and a short rope...cheers


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## salindroth (Jul 19, 2016)

The SX3 column would come close to the sloping ceiling above the bench.  Not sure the mobile shop crane boom would fit.  Maybe if the mill head is down by the table.


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## higgite (Jul 20, 2016)

salindroth said:


> The SX3 column would come close to the sloping ceiling above the bench.  Not sure the mobile shop crane boom would fit.  Maybe if the mill head is down by the table.



I have an LMS 5500 (SX2.7) that I lifted onto my bench with an engine hoist, but my shop has an 8’ ceiling that yours doesn’t. Although I had a little room to spare, yours still looks too low in the photo for that to work. Would something like a table lift possibly work for you? I’m thinking of something similar to what Hoose’s machine is sitting on in his video.

Tom


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## salindroth (Jul 20, 2016)

I think you are right.  With the sx2.7 I could use a "material lift," which I rented to put the the mini mill and lathe into place.   The SX3 would be too heavy/large for that.  

Do you like the SX2.7?  I'm wondering if the capacity is enough of an increase from the mini mill to justify the upgrade.  I invested in the mini mill by swapping in a brushless motor and replacing the gear drive with a home-made belt drive, so in some ways it's a better machine now than when it was new.

Scott


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## higgite (Jul 20, 2016)

Scott,

Yes, I do like the 2.7, but it’s my first mill of any kind so I can’t compare it to anything else. Sorry I can’t be of more help.

Something to think about if you are considering an engine hoist…. even if you lower the mill head near the table and use a short sling around the head to gain ceiling clearance, the hoist will still be limited as to how far it can reach over the bench top. I have a 1 ton Harbor Fright engine hoist. With the arm fully extended at a high enough angle to raise the mill to bench height, when I push the hoist legs under the bench and against the wall behind it, it is still over 2 feet from the wall to the lifting hook. Point being, it might not have enough reach for a shallow bench that backs up to a wall. My 2.7 sits on a 34" deep bench and I still had to push on it as I lowered it to get it all the way onto the bench. I was glad I had a helper. Just some food for thought.

Tom


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## salindroth (Jul 20, 2016)

higgite said:


> Scott,
> 
> Yes, I do like the 2.7, but it’s my first mill of any kind so I can’t compare it to anything else. Sorry I can’t be of more help.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Tom.  I'm pretty sure the engine hoist would not work for the reasons you stated.  I've thought of buying/building a small workbench on casters, rolling it out to the driveway (lots of headroom there...), hoisting the mill in place, and rolling it back into the garage.  That would be the safest way to move either the SX2.7 or SX3.   In the end, the SX2.7 is a better fit for my bench.


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## Charles Spencer (Jul 20, 2016)

I installed my two lathes and a drill press using a chain hoist.  First  I moved them into position on a movers dolly.  I screwed large eye bolts into the joists above where they were going.  The lathes weighed between 300 - 350 pounds, but I think you could do the same with a machine that was a bit heavier.  Then I leaned a board with the top against the bench.  I hoisted the machines up against the board.         

I just kept the bolts where I installed them in case I need to move them in the future.


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## higgite (Jul 21, 2016)

Scott,

Another thought... the SX2.7, or at least LMS' version of it, weighs just a hair over 200 lbs. I took the table off of mine to get it through the door on a hand cart and, out of curiosity, weighed the table while I had it off. As I recall, it weighed about 35 pounds. That would leave 170 lbs to lift if you can get it next to your bench on a dolly or something similar. Lifting it by hand would be pretty cumbersome, but a couple of strong backs might be able to do it by leaning it back and have one guy on the base and the other on the head. More food for thought. Of course, more bench top work space is always a plus, too, if you do decide to go with a separate bench.

Tom


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## mikey (Jul 21, 2016)

You guys need some young Samoans! I had ONE guy move my RF-31 on its stand using a hand truck. He got behind it, leaned it back onto his chest and then rolled it down my neighbor's driveway, 30 feet of sidewalk to my driveway, then up my driveway and into my shop - by himself. This is a 770# load! The guy was only about 5'5" tall and weighed maybe 175# but he was just seriously strong. I don't think he would breathe hard deadlifting 170#.


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## higgite (Jul 21, 2016)

Mike,

Was he 71 years old and sadly out of shape?  (Speaking for myself, not Scott)

Tom

(Actually, I'm not out of shape. "Pear" is a shape.)


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## salindroth (Jul 21, 2016)

Impressive.  But like Tom I knew more guys like that when I was 28 than now at 58.   BTW a professional rigger quoted $1200 to do the job for me.  It was too small a project to make it worth their while unless I agreed to let them rob me.

Scott


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## tweinke (Jul 21, 2016)

What if you used one of those lift tables to raise it to bench height then rolled it onto the bench on tubing. You could put the mill on the table in a convenient location roll it to the bench and raise it to the bench height. The table surly would be cheaper then the rigger and if purchased would be handy for many things.


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## salindroth (Jul 21, 2016)

tweinke said:


> What if you used one of those lift tables to raise it to bench height then rolled it onto the bench on tubing. You could put the mill on the table in a convenient location roll it to the bench and raise it to the bench height. The table surly would be cheaper then the rigger and if purchased would be handy for many things.



Yes, I think this is the way to go. Thanks.

Scott


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## tweinke (Jul 21, 2016)

Darn it now I'm thinking I need one now after looking at the grizzly catalog!


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## mikey (Jul 21, 2016)

higgite said:


> Mike,
> 
> Was he 71 years old and sadly out of shape?  (Speaking for myself, not Scott)
> 
> ...



Nah, the guy was in his early 50's, though. He had three other guys hovering around in case the load shifted but I suspect he thought we were just getting in the way and kindly tolerated us. He wasn't exactly a young guy, that's for sure. Impressive.

Oh, Tom, I haven't forgotten about the Superfly cutter test. I am almost done reconditioning that RF-31 and will let you know how it works when I get the chance.


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## mikey (Jul 21, 2016)

salindroth said:


> Impressive.  But like Tom I knew more guys like that when I was 28 than now at 58.   BTW a professional rigger quoted $1200 to do the job for me.  It was too small a project to make it worth their while unless I agreed to let them rob me.
> 
> Scott



$1200.00 is just stupid. I agree with you and would lift it onto a rolling table outside with a engine hoist and transfer it to your table indoors.


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## higgite (Jul 21, 2016)

Scott,
Heck, for $1200 bucks, it's probably cheaper in the long run to buy all the parts separately and assemble it on the bench. Sort of like a Heathkit milling machine. 

tweinke,
If you think you need one, you need one. It's science. 

Mikey,
Hurry up, would you? I don't have all day.  J/K, I know how it goes. I've been busy with some off topic stuff myself, but I'm getting an itchy trigger finger for a superfly. If nothing else, it has to be a great finishing tool.

Tom


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## mikey (Jul 21, 2016)

Heh, heh, if you knew what I had to go through to get machine ready ...


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## salindroth (Jul 21, 2016)

higgite said:


> Scott,
> Heck, for $1200 bucks, it's probably cheaper in the long run to buy all the parts separately and assemble it on the bench. Sort of like a Heathkit milling machine.
> 
> Tom



I got the feeling they didn't want my business, so it all worked out. 



higgite said:


> If you think you need one, you need one. It's science.



I've always liked the scientific method.

Scott


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## JamesSX2_7 (Jul 30, 2016)

Hello, I'm new here - so go easy on me 

I have a Seig SX2.7 Milling machine and have had one for 9 months now.
I'm a hobbyist, so my comments are based on never having seen or used a milling machine before.
I wanted to buy a drill press, but thought a small milling machine would be handy - glad I got it now.

Technically, this is the second machine as the first had a serious manufacturing fault. After a bit of mucking around trying to get it fixed, they swapped it over, but I didn't use the first one for the first 6 weeks or so.
This one also developed a small fault - but it turned out to be a loose connector.
Otherwise I am very happy with the machine.

As for lifting it - beware. The listed weight is incorrect. The machine weighs about 120kgs, not 101kgs. They do not put in 34kgs of packaging! The label on the shipping crate does say 120kg nett.
But, my brother and I could lift it onto the stand - not too bad for a pair of 40 something blokes.
I did choose this over the SX3 as the SX3 is much heavier than I thought we could lift at over 160kg.

Machine seems quite capable. I have used a 50mm face cutter with a 0.3mm depth of cut - no issues.
I can end mill 12mm to about 0.5mm and edge mill 20mm material by 0.5mm also.
I do not know if these figures are reasonable or maybe I'm just taking it too easy.

I have mostly finished building a power feed for the X-axis. Winding back and forth while removing only 0.5mm at a time gets boring pretty quick.
The power feed also turns the X-axis wheel at constant speed (hard to do manually) and much slower than I would.

Have a proper vise on order. At the moment I'm using a freebee home made vise, but it isn't well made and occasionally lets a part go.
I'm planning to turn it into an angle vise when the new one arrives.

Hope this is helpful to someone, though is possibly too late for the original poster.

James.


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## salindroth (Jul 30, 2016)

Thanks for this report, James.  Sounds like a good machine.  I've used a power screwdriver with a hex socket as a poor man's power feed...


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## JamesSX2_7 (Jul 31, 2016)

Hi Salindroth,

I am quite happy with the machine, shame about the first issue and the time it took to resolve.
Having a "hands free" power feed is handy. Lets me check measurements, sweep up or something while the machine does the cutting.

I'm still to implement the automatic end stops, to prevent crashing the table, or milling past the area wanted.
Hope to get to these soon - as soon as I have a useful vise!
Thought I'd attach a photo. Have since changes the screws, as metal was too thin to countersink.

James.


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## salindroth (Aug 3, 2016)

I just saw the YouTube video of the power feed in action.  Nice work, James!  

I took the plunge and ordered the SX2.7 from LMS.   

Scott


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## salindroth (Aug 12, 2016)

The SX2.7 arrived yesterday.  I got a duct jack from a local equipment rental center, and my son and I got the mill up to the workbench without any problem.  In fact, getting the duct jack in and out of my small SUV was far more challenging than putting the mill in place.

The mill is beautiful.  Fit and finish are very good, and clean up did not take long.  One thing I learned is that it does not like my GFCI outlets.  The interrupter would trip as soon as the motor started turning.  Chris from LMS told me to use a regular outlet because "These machines turn your AC into DC, then reassemble it to 3-phase. The phase shift unbalances the hot and neutral."

I ran in the spindle bearings at 600, 800, 1000 rpm for 10 minutes at each speed.  Right now the spindle gets very warm, so maybe it will take some time before the bearings settle in.  Or maybe that's the way it's going to be.  I measured 0.0005" TIR at the end.

The head is pretty well trammed in.   End milling along the x-axis leaves a nice moire pattern, and there's no ridge on the seam left by the return cut, which suggests the y-axis alignment with the table is pretty good as well.  I'm glad that the factory settings are acceptable, because it's not yet clear to me how to tram the head.

The LMS mill doesn't make an annoying beeping sound that Frank Hoose points out in his review (no chip guard to trigger the warning beep), and the control box has a dial to set the speed instead of +/- buttons.  Much better IMO.

Cranking the head up and down is a chore.  Lots of people have pointed this out about the SX3, so it wasn't a surprise.  My only complaint is that the instruction manual is extremely cursory.  Frank Hoose's video review has been very helpful to me as I get to know the machine.

So far I am happy customer.  The SX2.7 is the perfect upgrade for my needs.  It's is a lot beefier than a mini-mill, but the footprint is not overwhelming.

Scott


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## JamesSX2_7 (Aug 16, 2016)

Hi Scott,

I'm glad you took the plunge. Also glad you like the mill .

I presume a GFCI (ground fault current interrupter) is similar to our "earth leakage circuit breaker".
Mine runs no problem, though it is possible my ELCB doesn't work.
Maybe there are some electrical differences in the mill (mine is made for 240V, while I guess yours is 110V).

I did some measurements of my head tramming and it did need adjustment. Mine was out 0.15mm (0.006") in 450mm (18").
I used some shim brass to true it up. Was going to write it up at some stage.
It is now down at under 0.002" in 450mm (my dial indicator is imperial).
Of course, with time and use it may move a little.

My spindle run out measured 0.1mm (0.004"), but I want to remeasure. It occurs to me that I have no idea how accurate my collet chuck and collets are.
I'll remeasure directly on the spindle, and with another chuck, and maybe with a MT3 "shaft" (what is such a thing called - an arbor maybe).

My guard did beep, it also got in the way and made the machine useless.
Yes, the knob would be preferred, as after switching off you need to reset the speed - can take a while if you are picky about the exact number, as I can be!
You also have a different colour scheme.

I do think power feed in the Z axis is warranted too.
What is backlash on the X and Y handles like?

James.


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## salindroth (Aug 16, 2016)

JamesSX2_7 said:


> Hi Scott,
> 
> I'm glad you took the plunge. Also glad you like the mill .
> 
> ...



Yes, mine runs on 110v



JamesSX2_7 said:


> I did some measurements of my head tramming and it did need adjustment. Mine was out 0.15mm (0.006") in 450mm (18").
> I used some shim brass to true it up. Was going to write it up at some stage.
> It is now down at under 0.002" in 450mm (my dial indicator is imperial).
> Of course, with time and use it may move a little.



I assume you shimmed the column, not the head.   Mine is out 0.002" over 9" on the X-axis.  I'm not ready to loosen those column bolts just yet!



JamesSX2_7 said:


> My spindle run out measured 0.1mm (0.004"), but I want to remeasure. It occurs to me that I have no idea how accurate my collet chuck and collets are.
> I'll remeasure directly on the spindle, and with another chuck, and maybe with a MT3 "shaft" (what is such a thing called - an arbor maybe).



I was a little disappointed by the 0.0005" runout at the spindle end, but I'm getting more accurate hole diameters and positioning than I did with the mini-mill, and that's what's important.  More concerning is how much the spindle heats up when it runs continuously for 15+ min (not that I'll be doing this often if at all).   That suggests that the bearings are not seated properly.  There's also a little drag at the top end of the quill feed.  Again, I don't have the stomach to take apart the head.  That was a reasonable project for me on the mini-mill, but not on this one (yet).



JamesSX2_7 said:


> I do think power feed in the Z axis is warranted too.
> What is backlash on the X and Y handles like?
> James.



I tried the power screwdriver on the Z axis but it unscrewed the nut holding the crank when I try to raise the head.  I'll give it a drop of loctite and see if that works.  The backlash on both the X and Y axes is about 0.003".  Not too bad!

Scott


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## JamesSX2_7 (Aug 17, 2016)

Hi Scot,

I did shim the column, placing 2x layers or 0.05mm (0.002") of shim under the left side.
1x layer did nothing. I assume the column contacts elsewhere and the first layer filled the gap.
My column bolts were not the tightest when the mill was received, so I felt no danger in loosening them.

I did re-measure the runout on an arbor and on the ER25 chuck taper.
Both were under 0.001" on my dial indicator, I'll try the more sensitive test indicator when I next get the chance.
Looks like my collets are way off, or my technique is bad.

Where do you notice the heat?
I do (did) run mine for long periods when reducing material with an end mill and never noticed any particular hot areas.
Do NOTE: the motor is INSIDE the head on this mill, unlike the smaller mills. It will create heat too.
There is a guide on professionally setting up an SX3 from a British company that includes taking the spindle apart and re-greasing that may help if you get game.

I'm starting to think a stepper and belt, allowing precise height adjustments may be the go.

That is for much later though.

James.


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## salindroth (Aug 17, 2016)

Hi James,
I am pretty sure the spindle (not the motor) is heating up more than usual.  My mini-mill had the same issue until I replaced the bearings.  I've seen that arceurotrade video in which they tune an SX3 -- definitely a great resource should I want to dig in.

Raising and lowering the head is definitely a chore.  That will need to be addressed at some point.  In meantime I'm getting some good exercise!

Scott


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## higgite (Aug 17, 2016)

salindroth said:


> Raising and lowering the head is definitely a chore.  That will need to be addressed at some point.  In meantime I'm getting some good exercise!
> 
> Scott



Amen, Scott. It didn't take me long to pull out my cordless drill and find a socket to fit the center nut on the handwheel. I was afraid it would unscrew the nut, but so far, so good. My drill is variable speed, controlled by trigger pressure, and I start slow and build up speed. Maybe that helps not unscrew the nut. But, now that I've bragged on it, I'm sure it will unscrew next time I do it. 

Tom


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## JamesSX2_7 (Sep 2, 2016)

Hi Scott,
Did finally get some time with my mill.
After running for quite a while the spindle was a little warm to touch at the base, but not hot.
I was only doing some light end and side milling so no great pressures were involved.

My biggest concern with the bearings is the hammering to get the MT3 taper to release.
I am surprised by how tightly it holds on.

James.


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## salindroth (Sep 2, 2016)

JamesSX2_7 said:


> Hi Scott,
> Did finally get some time with my mill.
> After running for quite a while the spindle was a little warm to touch at the base, but not hot.
> I was only doing some light end and side milling so no great pressures were involved.
> ...



My mini-mill had an MT3 spindle taper, and I had the same problem at first.  I learned that the drawbar does not need to be tightened so hard to hold the collet/end mill; the taper will do the work for you.  It takes a little while to get the feel for how much is enough.  You should only need to give the drawbar a light/firm tap to release the collet. 

Scott


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## coherent (Sep 2, 2016)

Kind of off subject now from where this thread had drifted, but one easy way to move a mill to/from a workbench is find or make a rolling cart that is the same height as your workbench. Then, you can lift it onto or off of the cart using a hoist or whatever that's located anywhere. Even outside.  Then roll the cart next to the bench and slide it off. 
I have a chain hoist on the ceiling near my garage door opening. Used this method a number of times successfully.


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## salindroth (Sep 2, 2016)

coherent said:


> Kind of off subject now from where this thread had drifted, but one easy way to move a mill to/from a workbench is find or make a rolling cart that is the same height as your workbench. Then, you can lift it onto or off of the cart using a hoist or whatever that's located anywhere. Even outside.  Then roll the cart next to the bench and slide it off.
> I have a chain hoist on the ceiling near my garage door opening. Used this method a number of times successfully.



Thought of doing that, too.  In the end it was easy to rent a duct jack to lift the mill up to my bench.  
Scott


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## harrzack (Apr 7, 2017)

I'm lusting after this mill! Had long been wishing for the X3, but this appears to be a good compromise.

Scott - what is the depth (to the wall) of that bench you have the mill on?


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## salindroth (Apr 7, 2017)

harrzack said:


> I'm lusting after this mill! Had long been wishing for the X3, but this appears to be a good compromise.
> 
> Scott - what is the depth (to the wall) of that bench you have the mill on?




30" deep

This mill is the perfect size for my needs and available space.  It's adequately accurate (within 0.001" when squaring a block) and consistent.


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## harrzack (Apr 10, 2017)

I'm not so sure that the X2.7 is in the same class as the classic X2 series.  It looks to me more like a lighter version of the X3 - and I fairly certain it will be a def step UP from the LSM 3960.  I was lusting after the X3, but when I saw the details of the X2.7 I think it will be a better match (for me) than the X3.  Not to mention the version from LMS has no plastic gears, and the BLDC motor is a HUGE improvement over the classic X2's geared, standard DC motor.  Study the specs of the X2.7 carefully - I think you WILL be impressed!

Just wish I could find a copy of the X2.7 users manual so I can get some good external sizes - it may be a squeeze on my current mill table.

=Alan R.



Fossilbones said:


> If you have the money go for X3 mill. I have an X2 and its only suitable for really light work and I have just broken my first plastic gear in the motor drive. If you go with your original choice then decide on what work you will be doing, cutter sizes and how long it will take with an x2


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## matthew-s (Apr 10, 2017)

There even seems to be an x2.3 now, although I have no idea where you would get one in the US.


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## harrzack (Apr 10, 2017)

A quick look on the Sieg site confirms this:

http://www.siegind.com/products_detail/productId=173.html

An X2.3 AND an SX2.3!   Looks like the days of the X2 family are numbered...



matthew-s said:


> There even seems to be an x2.3 now, although I have no idea where you would get one in the US.


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## salindroth (Apr 10, 2017)

I was set on an X3 until I realized it would not fit on my bench with the ceiling in my garage shop.  The X2.7 is _perfect_.  It's heavy enough for my needs and more accurate than a X2.  Or rather, I can achieve accuracy within my tolerances more easily on this machine than I could with the X2, which required a lot more fuss.  The digital readout on the Z-axis has been a big help, too.


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## harrzack (Apr 10, 2017)

Scott - could I ask a favor of a couple measurements of the base? As the manual for this seems to be unavailable thru web searches, in sure other prospective X2.7 owners could use them too.

My LMS 3960 sits nicely on a 24" X 43" table I made.  If you could give the basic "rectangle" dimensions of the base as well as how far the Y axis handle  sticks out past the base - this would give the min front-to-back space needed to bench the mill.

Thanks!

Alan R.


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## salindroth (Apr 10, 2017)

harrzack said:


> Scott - could I ask a favor of a couple measurements of the base? As the manual for this seems to be unavailable thru web searches, in sure other prospective X2.7 owners could use them too.
> 
> My LMS 3960 sits nicely on a 24" X 43" table I made.  If you could give the basic "rectangle" dimensions of the base as well as how far the Y axis handle  sticks out past the base - this would give the min front-to-back space needed to bench the mill.
> 
> ...



Here you go:

The cast iron "blue rectangle" base is 16.125" deep and 9" wide.
The column extends beyond the back of the cast iron base by 3.5".  The column does not rest on the "ground" and does not need to be supported.
The y-axis handle extends 4.5" from the front of the base.

The attached sketch is embarrassingly rough.  And I forgot to include the 9" width measurement. :-/

Sounds like your table should work!

Scott


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## harrzack (Apr 10, 2017)

Wow! Thanks a ton for the info AND the good news for my table.

 By the way, I show the progress of the building of these tables on my website http://www.avrdev.net. 





salindroth said:


> Here you go:
> 
> The cast iron "blue rectangle" base is 16.125" deep and 9" wide.
> The column extends beyond the back of the cast iron base by 3.5".  The column does not rest on the "ground" and does not need to be supported.
> ...


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## harrzack (Apr 10, 2017)

Here is a version I hacked together on the iPad


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## salindroth (Apr 10, 2017)

harrzack said:


> View attachment 231130
> 
> 
> Here is a version I hacked together on the iPad



Definitely nicer than mine.   Let us know if (when) you purchase the machine. 
Scott


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## ben_r_ (Apr 19, 2017)

Anyone looked into converting the LMS 5500 to CNC?


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## Metrology (May 4, 2017)

Fossilbones said:


> If you have the money go for X3 mill. I have an X2 and its only suitable for really light work and I have just broken my first plastic gear in the motor drive. If you go with your original choice then decide on what work you will be doing, cutter sizes and how long it will take with an x2



The LMS 5500 has a belt drive, so it has that going for it.


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## harrzack (May 4, 2017)

I was lusting for the X3 for a long time, but when I read the specs of the SX2.7 was quite impressed. Please don't be fooled by the "2" in the name of this mill. It is more of a cut-down X3 than a beefed up X2. The size is better for my shop (second floor apt). Read the specs on the LMS 5500, (AKS Sx2.7) and you'll quickly see it a small mill - NOT a "mini-mill".

Almost had a buyer for my X2 w/DRO but jerk never showed up! I could almost taste that 2.7.... defeat snatched from the jaws of success.


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## harrzack (May 24, 2017)

Scott - per your request, am happy to say my LMS 5500 is ON THE WAY!  My LMS 3960 found a good home and helped finance the new machine.
I'm having it delivered to a company that has a fork-lift and avoided the lift-gate fee.   It should arrive in NJ around the end of the month.  Will provide pix and notes of the install.



salindroth said:


> Definitely nicer than mine.   Let us know if (when) you purchase the machine.
> Scott


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## salindroth (May 24, 2017)

harrzack said:


> Scott - per your request, am happy to say my LMS 5500 is ON THE WAY!  My LMS 3960 found a good home and helped finance the new machine.
> I'm having it delivered to a company that has a fork-lift and avoided the lift-gate fee.   It should arrive in NJ around the end of the month.  Will provide pix and notes of the install.



Congratulations!  Please do post pics as you set it up.  
Scott


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## harrzack (Jun 5, 2017)

This reply is coming a bit late - but the 5500 is HERE!  What a sweet machine after the SX2.  Even the wrenches have a better fit.  Once I get it basically together I'll post pix of the setup - and on my website.

Somewhere I saw mention of running the bearings in at various speeds for 10 mins each.  For the life of me I can find those numbers...  And the 7 pages "documentation" in the "Parts list/user manual" says little.   I'm quite surprised that a mill of this quality and from LMS - doesn't supply an adequate user manual.  I know Frank Hoose has a wonder tour and of the mill - but even a 5 part video is no replacement for a GOOD user manual.   Otherwise - VERY happy camper!


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## salindroth (Jun 5, 2017)

harrzack said:


> Somewhere I saw mention of running the bearings in at various speeds for 10 mins each.  For the life of me I can find those numbers...  And the 7 pages "documentation" in the "Parts list/user manual" says little.   I'm quite surprised that a mill of this quality and from LMS - doesn't supply an adequate user manual.  I know Frank Hoose has a wonder tour and of the mill - but even a 5 part video is no replacement for a GOOD user manual.   Otherwise - VERY happy camper!



Congratulations!  I think you'll find this a capable machine, especially after living with an X2.

The user manual is surprisingly incomplete.  F. Hoose's videos were helpful in this regard.  As for running in the bearings, I read about this in the documentation for mills sold by Grizzly.  I copied this from the G704 manual:

To perform spindle break-in process: 1. Successfully complete Test Run procedure beginning on Page 20. 2. Open the Emergency Stop button cover and press the green button to start the spindle. 3. With the speed range selector knob in the "L" (low) position, turn mill/drill ON and run the spindle at 600 RPM for a minimum of 10 minutes in each direction of rotation. 4. Turn the mill/drill OFF. 5. With the speed range selector knob in the "H" (high) position, turn mill/drill ON and run spindle at 1000 RPM for 5 minutes in each direction of rotation. 6. Repeat Step 5 at 2000 RPM. 7. Turn the mill/drill OFF. Congratulations! The spindle break-in is complete.

I noticed the spindle bearings in my machine warmed up a fair amount at first, but this has subsided over time.  

Scott


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## salindroth (Jun 5, 2017)

ben_r_ said:


> Anyone looked into converting the LMS 5500 to CNC?



Not aware of this, but it seems like a good candidate.
Scott


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## harrzack (Jun 7, 2017)

Have gotten the 5500 bolted to the table and working on getting used to it.  I notice the center marker on the table is at the left and and not on center - is this an "oops" or is there some good reason for the offset.

BTW - I also sent LMS a grumpy email complaining about the crappy users guide/Parts List!


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## lcrepairs (Dec 30, 2017)

I have had the LMS 5500 mill (2.7) since about Sept/2016.  It's my first mill and I've been pretty happy with it on alluminum but it a little small for cutting steel very well.  I've run a 3" face mill just fine on alluminum but it chatters on steel.  I guess I've outgrown it so I ordered the 9x49 G0796 from Grizzly which is on backorder till at least February.  I may end up selling the small one at some point but it's not a bad machine and I really like Frank Hoose's videos on it, that's what made me buy it.  It's really too small for tapping over 1/4" holes also.


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## salindroth (Dec 30, 2017)

lcrepairs said:


> I have had the LMS 5500 mill (2.7) since about Sept/2016.  It's my first mill and I've been pretty happy with it on alluminum but it a little small for cutting steel very well.  I've run a 3" face mill just fine on alluminum but it chatters on steel.  I guess I've outgrown it so I ordered the 9x49 G0796 from Grizzly which is on backorder till at least February.  I may end up selling the small one at some point but it's not a bad machine and I really like Frank Hoose's videos on it, that's what made me buy it.  It's really too small for tapping over 1/4" holes also.



I’ve gotten good results with CR if I go easy, but, yes, I usually use aluminum or delrin for my projects.  I’ll be interested to hear about the G0796 once you get going with it.


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## harrzack (Dec 30, 2017)

These smaller machines can do pretty much anything - if you take the time. Lighter cuts, depths, correct speeds will win out - again if you go slowly.  When slow is "too slow" *then* you move up - next thing you'll have a Bridgeport in your shop!  !


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## lcrepairs (Dec 30, 2017)

harrzack said:


> These smaller machines can do pretty much anything - if you take the time. Lighter cuts, depths, correct speeds will win out - again if you go slowly.  When slow is "too slow" *then* you move up - next thing you'll have a Bridgeport in your shop!  !


I understand your point but I have found that there just isn't enough Ridgity for some jobs like facing large surfaces on steel type materials with these little Girly Mills like the one I currently have.


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## DDS (Sep 5, 2018)

The SX 2.7 looks like a good choice if you are concerned about size and weight, but there are things about this machine that need to be answered first.

1) This machine does not have a closed square column like the Mini Mills, it has an open "C" section channel design which is not the best design for rigidity. Trying to get a value on the stiffness of the column is apparently not possible. In facing operations this machine may not be much stiffer than the Mini Mill, and IMO may be the reason Seig classified this machine as a "2" instead of a "3" - everything else looks really solid.

2) One parameter on the 2.7 has remained an enigma for me. That being the distance from the table surface to the bottom of the spindle in the full up position. Seig's web site gives this dim = 14 9/16" (370mm) but both LMS and Grizzly sell machines with the dim = 12 3/16". I suspect the difference may simply be how much the R8 spindle portrudes below the head casting, compared to the MT3 spindle, but trying to get that verified has been harder than it should be. 12 3/16" "head space" is not very much for a 1 horse power machine. And I suspect Seig has kept the column height as short as possible for concerns about ridigity - but that is only speculation.
  LMS 's machine has a head travel = 11.25" while Grizzly's machine has only 8 5/8" head travel. They both have table to spindle dim's = 12 3/16" and both have R8 spindles. Why would these travels be different? This would suggest Seig is making different machines for different distributors - that they are all not the same. Send seig an email asking about these things and you will get 1 reply directing you back to your local seller, and there after no replys at all. The sellers in the USA are LMS and Grizzly and they haven't a clue about these things.

3) I can't help but notice the parameters of these Sx2.7's seem so close to being really good, that I remain interested in them. My experience with my Seig Mini Mill which is 16 years old has been nothing but positive. I broke my plastic gears for the first time last month and fixed the problem in one week by buying an entire assembled head casting with new gears for $140. Everything else has been just fine. I might add here, that years ago I removed the head travel limiting screw on my Mini Mill which resulted in a full 13" head space. This is one reason I am concerned about buying a SX2.7 replacement for my S2 which would have even less head space. I might also add that the SX2.7 looks like it could easily have the head space increased by simply inserting a riser block between the column foot and the base. LMS actually offers this option for the new Seig Mini Mills. Also it looks like a easy job of modifying the SX2.7 column by replacing the sheet metal cover with a bolted on heavy steel plate, making the column a closed rectangle rather than a open "C" section. It appears that the only thing under that sheet metal cover are wires they could easily be reroute out the back through a hole 

4) In summary the SX2.7 looks like a real winner but only with some modifications and only with some good technical information which is almost impossible to obtain. I hesitate in buying one and finding out the hard way.

If anybody has any answers about these things please reply


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## salindroth (Nov 10, 2018)

DDS said:


> The SX 2.7 looks like a good choice if you are concerned about size and weight, but there are things about this machine that need to be answered first.
> 
> 1) This machine does not have a closed square column like the Mini Mills, it has an open "C" section channel design which is not the best design for rigidity.



True enough m, but the LMS 2.7 is far more rigid than an S2. I mostly work with aluminum, but cuts of .035”(+) are fine. I seldom went beyond .020” on the S2 and even then thought I was pushing things. 



> 2) One parameter on the 2.7 has remained an enigma for me. That being the distance from the table surface to the bottom of the spindle in the full up position...



I’ve not had any problems with vertical headroom compared to the S2, but YMMV. The big difference is cranking the head up and down. You will fatigue quickly unless you use a power driver of some kind to turn the crank for you. 




> 3) I can't help but notice the parameters of these Sx2.7's seem so close to being really good, that I remain interested in them...



I’ve really enjoyed the S2.7 from LMS. Here are my grumbles:

- tramming the head was easy (and frequently required) on the S2. It’s a bigger deal on the S2.7. In fact I think I’d need a hoist of some kind to lift the column off the base for shimming. It’s not far out of tram, but I wish it were easier to “dial it in.”

- I’m not completely happy with the finishes I get when side milling. I imagined that I got better finishes with the S2, but it turns out the results are comparable, especially if I lock down the head and table on the S2.7. 

- I was able to reduce spindle runout to < 0.0005” on the S2 when I upgraded the spindle bearing. The runout on the S2.7 is just over 0.001” and I think this contributes to the problem with side milling finishes. Again, I haven’t had the gumption to deal with it because the head is so much heavier than an S2.

Overall, the benefits of greater rigidity and the tapping feature on the LMS 2.7 have outweighed what for me are very small compromises. Like the S2, you learn how to get accurate results with the tool at hand. I’ve been able to take the on projects that would have been awkward if it not impossible on the S2. And the ability to take beefier cuts in aluminum has been a big win for me. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DDS (Nov 10, 2018)

Salindroth, one question I would like to ask is about the method of taking slack out of the "X" and "Y" table movements. With my old mini mill, in order to accomplish this I must tighten (4) 5mm set screws against a filler bar that pushes against the table ways. The pitch on a 5mm thread is about 1/32" meaning it is almost impossible to control the clearance to levels of about .001" which is a must for a smooth cut (even closer). Furthermore when I finally get the clearance set properly, and try to lock the set screws in position by tightening lock nuts, it changes the clearance and makes the job a tedious trial and error operation. The reason you cannot lock the set screws without screwing up what you just set is the slop in the threads of the screws and nuts and the imprecise painted surfaces the lock nuts push against. My solution for years has been to simply apply weak (old) thread locker on the set screws and leave the lock nuts loose. But this method only lasts for a short time, and I am constantly adjusting the set screws. I noticed on the 2.7 it looks like the table clearence adjustment is accomplished by a single set screw pushing on a long tapered dowl that runs the full lenght of the table, which could be a solution to this problem. But Is it in fact?


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## salindroth (Nov 10, 2018)

DDS said:


> ...I noticed on the 2.7 it looks like the table clearence adjustment is accomplished by a single set screw pushing on a long tapered dowl that runs the full lenght of the table, which could be a solution to this problem. But Is it in fact?



Yes, that is correct.  (And in my earlier message I meant to say "X2" and "SX2"...)


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## lewiss66 (Sep 3, 2020)

Hi DDS,
I know It's a bit old but I ask.
Did you finally decide to buy the SX2.7 ?
Thanks


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## Niros (Sep 12, 2020)

Hello,

I have recently bought the mini mill SX2.7L (My first mill) after looking at Frank's video on you tube, however I think that I have gotten a rotten apple.
After doing some tests I measured (relative to the spindle) a deviation along Y axis on the right side of the table of 0.2 mm and on the left side 0.12 mm and the right to left error is 0.4 mm! (Table length 700 mm)
Relative to the head, measuring on one spot and moving the table in the x and y directions, there is also a deviation of the same order which I don't get since as I understand it, if the table is tilted to 5 degrees and the table is moving along its plane I should be able to read constant height - no matter the angle, so does this means that the table itself is moving relative its own axis!?.
The table is also not flat, I can see light clearly when using a precision square ruler, but my feeler gauge smallest shim is only 0.05 mm and it doesn't fit by force, I will guess 0.04 mm is the flatness of my table in the y axis (length 160 mm)...
The only part that is accurate is the run out of the spindle of 0.01 mm.
The seller offered me to replace the mill by a new one from a closed box, however he mentioned that I will realize that it may behave in the same way, and that in such a case I will not be able to complain again.
Please tell me based on your experience, should I take the offer or try and level what I have? (There are other troubling factors, like back cover a little bent on top, corrosion on 3 bolts and paint removed at 3 different places).
I can shim the head along one axis but not on two (at the same time) this is way over my league...
What is a precision that is counted to be "good" and what will be considered "terrible"?

Thank You Very Much!
Nir


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## higgite (Sep 13, 2020)

Have you adjusted the gibs? 

Tom


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## Niros (Sep 13, 2020)

higgite said:


> Have you adjusted the gibs?
> 
> Tom


I didn't, it has a one screw mechanism, so it will only tighten or loosen the axis movement, I don't see any rotational play. In any case I locked the axis and the locking mechanism just pushes on the gib. (All the measurement I took are height measurement)
In any case, does a ~0.05 mm flatness along the y axis over 160 mm is considered bad? (In my opinion it is terrible)
My main question is, based on your experience which I lack, replacing the mill is a smart move? should I anticipate improvement or the same story? I don't have the time to take it all apart and reassemble it from bottom up. Maybe in the future, but not just yet... Do you think the picture I described worth the replacement? or it could get even worse than that? I mean 0.04 mm on all parameters is something I can live with for the moment.... But 0.4 mm is just ridiculous... (My press drill does better than that with my (cheap) USA x-y table...)


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## higgite (Sep 13, 2020)

Niros said:


> I didn't, it has a one screw mechanism, so it will only tighten or loosen the axis movement....


The gib for each axis has two screws, one at each end of the gib, for adjustment.



Niros said:


> In any case, does a ~0.05 mm flatness along the y axis over 160 mm is considered bad? (In my opinion it is terrible)


I haven’t measured the flatness of my table, so can’t offer anything there. I can tell you that my table is out of tram with the spindle by .00025” over 5” (0.00005”/inch) on the Y-axis and .0019” over 16” (0.00012”/inch) on the X-axis. I have never adjusted it.



Niros said:


> My main question is, based on your experience which I lack, replacing the mill is a smart move? should I anticipate improvement or the same story? .... Do you think the picture I described worth the replacement? or it could get even worse than that?....


That’s difficult to say without actually witnessing how well your gibs are adjusted, how you took your measurements, etc., etc. And I’m a little confused if you’re talking about table surface flatness or table tilt relative to a level surface or to the spindle or what. If you are convinced that your gibs are properly adjusted and the mill is still out of spec, then what do you have to lose by requesting a replacement? I hope you get it worked out to your satisfaction.

Tom


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## Niros (Sep 29, 2020)

Tom, thank for your reply, first I want to say that you where absolutely right! you are the first person to point out to me that I should play with the gibs ant it has a huge effect on accuracy! I took the offer for replacement, before I took your advice into consideration (The mill was in the box already) and the first thing I did on the second mill was to check for the gibs. I reassembled them after cleaning them along with the machine and applying thin coat of engine oil 10w40. The height measurement along the x axis relative to the spindle gave 0.03mm and on the y axis it was about ~0.1 on both sides - nothing that can't be fixed with a shim. However I did got a very inaccurate z column it has the shape of a trapeze… The top is much wider then the bottom. If I close the gib when the head is at the bottom all the way in - when I lock the head it still moves to the left by 0.27mm! and I cannot move the head all the way up! I shared all the details  in https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=168066&p=1 and I really am disappointed from this mill. Now I need to ask the seller for a third replacement - If he accept it - I'll have to pay him extra, and then I will need to pray this time I will got better luck... I cannot upgrade to Sieg SX3 since it is too heavy and I live in an apartment where the maximum allowed weight per meter is only 150 kg and there is no reason to think that the Sieg SX3 will be more accurate.


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