# Anyone with a drokits setup? decent quality?



## PurpLev (May 30, 2013)

I think I have given up on the idea of CNCing my mill, and as such would like to add a DRO setup for it (was holding off on this as converting it to CNC would make the DRO pointless). funds are tight, and it looks like drokits (dot com) has some reasonable options. they use glass scales at 5micron (they have a 1micron option ,but I don't think I would need that level of precision for what I do), and size wise I think it'll extend somewhat from my table as the scale sizes are in 100mm increments (this will be going on a grizzly G0619 table mill). 

looks doable, affordable, but am wondering about quality. don't want to drop all that $$ and be left with subpar readings that will be useless.

anyone with one of these DROS (mill or lathe doesn't matter, just curious about quality and functionality/performance)? how do you like it? pros/cons? issues? other?

thanks in advance,
Sharon


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## davidh (May 30, 2013)

look at the for sale post I did last night.  that may be your answer.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2013)

davidh said:


> look at the for sale post I did last night.  that may be your answer.



Thanks David, 
I did see it as the post was well timed. however while those are magnetic scales and can be custom fit to size (I like that), I am not fond of the use of batteries, and would rather have a wall-powered unit with 1 power supply for all. 

I also want to be able to hook up an edge finder to the DRO as well as be able to use some of the multi-dimensional features which the smaller units do not provide.


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## ML_Woy (May 30, 2013)

PurpLev said:


> I think I have given up on the idea of CNCing my mill, and as such would like to add a DRO setup for it (was holding off on this as converting it to CNC would make the DRO pointless). funds are tight, and it looks like drokits (dot com) has some reasonable options. they use glass scales at 5micron (they have a 1micron option ,but I don't think I would need that level of precision for what I do), and size wise I think it'll extend somewhat from my table as the scale sizes are in 100mm increments (this will be going on a grizzly G0619 table mill).
> 
> looks doable, affordable, but am wondering about quality. don't want to drop all that $$ and be left with subpar readings that will be useless.
> 
> ...


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2013)

Thanks.

I am familiar with dropros. they seem to have a really nice selection of quality units, however the cost of even their 'cheapest' glass scaled 3-axis kit is ~750 compared to the ~480 number that I am currently considering to be pushing the envelope (in my case obviously). sure wish I could fork out the $$$ for one of those magnetic scale kits, but for my hobby use, I simply cannot justify it. 

I do appreciate all the comments and alternatives, so I hope I don't come off negative, but I am mostly familiar with the 'other' options, and am more interested in hearing if anyone has first hand experience with drokits units specifically.

on a side note, I just realized that none of those lower units (other than the Shumatech) have an input for a digital edge finder... oh well.


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## tripletap3 (May 30, 2013)

I did a in depth search on the drokits and the drostore.com and even E mailed a few people that I found that had them. I found very little information in my search but what I did find were 2 people that had used them and were very happy with them. No real complaints. I hate to say it (And I know you don't want to hear it so don't beat me up.) but the Chinese are getting pretty good at making some of this stuff.

Lots of good photos and info http://mtechdro.blogspot.com/


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## Ray C (May 30, 2013)

Hey, thanks for turning me on to this place.  It's about time we get a break from the scalp-hunters.

I've been threatening myself to put one on my lathe for a while now.  Sure would be nice for tapers.  I'd probably only be interested in 0.0002" resolution such as what's on my mill.  Most of the time I don't pay too much attention to the last digit.  All you have to do is breathe hard and it flickers.


Ray


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2013)

I don't have a problem with chinese products in general - just with a select few. that's why I like doing my homework before shelling out the cash - can't win them all, but it gets you pretty far.


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## sanddan (May 30, 2013)

I went with this setup as it has a 3 axis display so you can add the third axis at a later date. When first installed I had a battery powered DRO on the quill so this one covered the x and y axis. I did end up switching out the quill axis so all of the readouts were on the same monitor. I have an RF45 clone so did not see the need for z-axis on the column.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Rea...=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item3a7f658647


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## hman (May 30, 2013)

PurpLev said:


> Thanks David,
> I did see it as the post was well timed. however while those are magnetic scales and can be custom fit to size (I like that), I am not fond of the use of batteries, and would rather have a wall-powered unit with 1 power supply for all.



I have a Shars 3-axis DRO on my mini-mill
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XYZ-3-AXIS-...832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45effc83b0
(just for completeness), here's the 2-axis version; both work with any (AFAIK) magnetic scale:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XY-2-AXIS-D...491?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5195d29b5b
and was very unhappy with the battery situation.  Though the display unit was powered by a wall wart, the scales still depended on batteries.  Luckily, I found a thread on one of my Yahoo groups that pointed to a solution. 

1. I soldered SMD capacitors across the contacts in the battery wells of the scales
2. Hard-wired the cables to the scales - (plugs seemed much too flakey), including both + and - power leads
3. Found an otherwise unused battery well in the display unit - 3 AA cells.  Wired + and - leads here, with additional capacitors for noise suppression.

This has eliminated several problems, including scale jitter, has made battery changes much less frequent (AA cells have *lots* more capacity than coin cells!), and has made battery changes much easier.

Even for individual scales like the iGaging, you might consider a similar central battery setup.  Radio Scrap sells a good variety of battery holders.  You could also go with a wall wart of suitable voltage.  My usual source for these is Goodwill - $1 or 2 is typical.

I don't recall the details of the capacitors, but can try to look this up if you PM me.




PurpLev said:


> I also want to be able to hook up an edge finder to the DRO as well as be able to use some of the multi-dimensional features which the smaller units do not provide.



Unfortunately, not available with any "cheap" system I know of.  

I still do it the "old fashioned" way - zero the scale when the edge finder "kicks", then move over by the radius of the finder and re-zero.  Luckily, I'm not usually in a hurry when doing a homebrew project.  

Best wishes!


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2013)

hman said:


> Even for individual scales like the iGaging, you might consider a similar central battery setup.  Radio Scrap sells a good variety of battery holders.  You could also go with a wall wart of suitable voltage.  My usual source for these is Goodwill - $1 or 2 is typical.



that is a neat idea.

As for the shars or CDCO DROs that are on the lesser expense margins - I personally find that they are high expense enough that I'd rather pay a bit more and get a more capable setup (AKA the $500 DROs range). I suppose mentally I feel comfortable in that price bracket. to each their own?



hman said:


> Unfortunately, not available with any "cheap" system I know of.



Yes, after doing a bit more research and contacting the providers I came to realize this as well. Thinking further ahead, while this feature is convenient, I think it is more suitable for CNC setups than for manual DROs as you still need to manually operate the table, so it's not like this is relieving you of the zeroing process all together. I will be doing this part manually after all it seems, which as you mentioned - for hobby work isn't all that time consuming and difficult.

Thanks for the feedback.


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## itsme_Bernie (May 30, 2013)

I just got a bunch of iGaging at Grizzly, as they were already cheap, then 30% off!  

I will let you know how they are.  I plan on running wires from a wall wart to them as well.  


Bernie


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## kd4gij (May 30, 2013)

If you want to use Igaging scales check this sight out. http://www.yuriystoys.com/2013/02/new-version-of-android-dro-coming.html Aand Yuriy is a member here.


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## brucer (May 31, 2013)

I'm still trying to figure out why dro's are so expensive, especially the Chinese import dro's.


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## PurpLev (May 31, 2013)

Ok, pulled the trigger on a TDS-3i from thedrostore. they seem comparable to the drokits units in terms of price and functions, but have better fitting scale lengths. I'll create a separate thread once I receive and install the unit



kd4gij said:


> If you want to use Igaging scales check this sight out. http://www.yuriystoys.com/2013/02/new-version-of-android-dro-coming.html Aand Yuriy is a member here.



oh man... if only I've seen this earlier. I might have been tempted to build one of those. this is really cool! 

... I still plan on getting a DRO for the lathe at somet point in the future, maybe I'll try this one out then. thanks for posting this.


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## Ray C (May 31, 2013)

I seem to be missing something...  What kind of sensors does this droid app work with?  Just curious...

If I understand properly, it seems there are bluetooth DRO sensors this app is reading from.  Nice idea!  I know a lttle about embedded systems and think this has possibilities provided the app is removed from a smartphone environment and run on a tablet.  (BTW:  I have many early patents and defensive publications from the beginning days of cell phones.  Most smartphone apps are buggy as heck due to flawed/misbehaved environment.  And I trust them for nothing).

Ray




kd4gij said:


> If you want to use Igaging scales check this sight out. http://www.yuriystoys.com/2013/02/new-version-of-android-dro-coming.html Aand Yuriy is a member here.


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## PurpLev (May 31, 2013)

Ray C said:


> I seem to be missing something...  What kind of sensors does this droid app work with?  Just curious...
> 
> If I understand properly, it seems there are bluetooth DRO sensors this app is reading from.  Nice idea!  I know a lttle about embedded systems and think this has possibilities provided the app is removed from a smartphone environment and run on a tablet.  (BTW:  I have many early patents and defensive publications from the beginning days of cell phones.  Most smartphone apps are buggy as heck due to flawed/misbehaved environment.  And I trust them for nothing).
> 
> Ray



It is using the iGaging sensors (sold on amazon/grizzly/ebay/etc) connected to a DYI controller with a bluetooth transmitter that the android device (smartphone or tablet) can connect and communicate with.


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## tripletap3 (May 31, 2013)

PurpLev said:


> Ok, pulled the trigger on a TDS-3i from thedrostore. they seem comparable to the drokits units in terms of price and functions, but have better fitting scale lengths. I'll create a separate thread once I receive and install the unit



:ups: I will be waiting!   BTW I don't use the "smilies" often but has everyone seen the additional smilies 4? I want to find a reason to use some of those.


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## randyjaco (May 31, 2013)

Good luck with those iGaging sensors. My experience with them was not good. The repeatability was @ plus and minus .003". Not accurate enough for me!
I bit the bullet and got the 3 axis DRO Pro. One of my better buys.

Randy


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## ycroosh (Jun 2, 2013)

randyjaco said:


> Good luck with those iGaging sensors. My experience with them was not good. The repeatability was @ plus and minus .003". Not accurate enough for me!
> I bit the bullet and got the 3 axis DRO Pro. One of my better buys.
> 
> Randy



Randy,
I've noticed that the newer batches are getting worse, unfortunately. The first two units I've built were spot on (repeatable to sub 0.0001"). One of the recent builds (for my new X3 is still waiting for a THIRD replacement unit from Grizzly. (two were good, one was a complete fluke). A 36" scale I got for my lathe went right back to the seller and the replacement is almost good (has one spot where it's off, but it will be cut off once the scale is cut to zie).

I'm waiting for a set of glass scales (more accurately, for a budget for a set of glass scales) and will be making a controller that can run those. I'm still happy to have the iGaging DRO on the mill, as it saves me gobs of time, but for very accurate work I still double check just in case).

Regards
Yuriy


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## ycroosh (Jun 2, 2013)

Ray C said:


> I seem to be missing something...  What kind of sensors does this droid app work with?  Just curious...
> 
> If I understand properly, it seems there are bluetooth DRO sensors this app is reading from.  Nice idea!  I know a lttle about embedded systems and think this has possibilities provided the app is removed from a smartphone environment and run on a tablet.  (BTW:  I have many early patents and defensive publications from the beginning days of cell phones.  Most smartphone apps are buggy as heck due to flawed/misbehaved environment.  And I trust them for nothing).
> 
> Ray




Ray,
What do you mean by "removed from a smartphone environment"? (Just curious). I haven't tested too much on the phone (mine has $600 replacement cost, so it's not going into the garage...), but the tablet running clean Android has been pretty reliable so far.

As a professional software developer I can say with 100% certainty: all non-trivial apps are buggy, and that is due to a lot of factors, ranging from issues in the author's DNA to stray neutrinos hitting the processor at the right time  
Regards
Yuriy


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## Ray C (Jun 2, 2013)

Hi Yuriy,

Oh yes, completely well aware of software complexity issues... Intimately so...

The problem with the smartphone environment is two-fold (actually probably three or four-fold) but as far as software goes here are some of the fundamental issues.  -And this is general, common knowledge... 

The development environments are going toward multi-platform and are trying to support BlackBerry, i(Apple-Stuff), Symbian, Droid, Palm (and a host of others) all under one hood.  As you said, any software that's complex has bugs.  -And when you cram that much bad technology (and some of it flawed technology at that) into a small place, you get well, high density bugs.  I couldn't count the number of bugs, my teams have encountered which were traced back to the development environment (Eclipse, Netbeans, VS, etc).  And these are fundamental bugs such as linker offset problems there were darn near impossible to find.  Classic and simple case in point.  Take your software, upgrade the development package and recompile.  -Dollars to donuts it won't even compile much less run right.   I know better.  And when you release your app using version X of some package, you will find it conflicts with someone else's app that was made with version Y of the same (or some other) environment.

Configuration Management:  I've used about every known CM package out there (and still do, every day).  All of them are buggy as heck.

Other Software:  No matter how good your app is and how much time you've spent chasing-out the bugs, there's always going to be someone else's Free (or 99 cent) app that brings the whole cardhouse down.  -And it may manifest itself only when your app is running -and thus, you will be given due credit.

OS Changes:  The problem is systemic.  I couldn't shake a stick at all the apps I've made over the years that stop working properly when the OS is upgraded -and the smartphone OSs are highly complex (and usually very different than the OS's in notebook and general computing devices) and in a constant state of flux.  Software is only as good the OS it runs in and it's a constant moving target.

I could go on ad-infinitum about these types of issues and not even scratch the surface of proprietary information issues (which are systemic and deep seated).

I happen to have detailed information about cell phones and it's common knowledge that most folks power-off / reset their devices on a regular (almost daily) basis.  Why?  Because something goes quirky and it's the fastest way to make a bug temporarily go away.

BTW:  Your idea of of putting a BT xmitter at the end of a DRO is probably worth a design patent (I sat on the Patent committee at Motorola)...  Your idea is good, very good.  Now get away from the smartphone environment lest you get blamed for every weakness they have...  Notepad, GC platform -good place to be for your idea.

Ray




ycroosh said:


> Ray,
> What do you mean by "removed from a smartphone environment"? (Just curious). I haven't tested too much on the phone (mine has $600 replacement cost, so it's not going into the garage...), but the tablet running clean Android has been pretty reliable so far.
> 
> As a professional software developer I can say with 100% certainty: all non-trivial apps are buggy, and that is due to a lot of factors, ranging from issues in the author's DNA to stray neutrinos hitting the processor at the right time
> ...


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## PurpLev (Jun 3, 2013)

Just got notice that the DRO is en-route...

Yuriy - I checked our your blog and your app - they are sweet and very inspiring - thanks for putting it all out there (now if I only had time to play around with it...)

I think Android OS is a good platform to develop to at the moment as it is open to a plethora of devices - most are accessible and in current house use (android phones and tablets). I love the idea of using my phone or tablet to view the readings on my Mill, and then switch the BT connection to the unit on the Lathe to work on that one (this raises a question - can you switch between transmitters and remember their settings when you left them off or would it reset readings?) - all theoretical at the moment of course as I do not have any of the electronics, but the concept is brilliant nonetheless.

The only drawback is the igaging scales accuracy in my mind - while they are advertised as repeatable within .001, they are also advertised as running a .002 resolution which is great for woodworking (which is what they are marketed for) and in fact too good for woodworking, it is still a bit iffy (for me) for metal working where I do try to aim to stay within .001 off of my mark, and with .002 resolution this is impractical (especially for lathe work which will double the error by x2).

I wonder if one could use higher grade scales for this (like dropros magnetic scales, or generic/import glass scales). that would remove the only con I see in this setup.

I am planning on getting a DRO on my lathe at some point, and will seriously consider your app and writeup if I can find a way to rig this with higher resolution scales (will need to do more research on this on my end).


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## Ray C (Jun 3, 2013)

PurpLev said:


> Just got notice that the DRO is en-route...
> 
> ...
> I wonder if one could use higher grade scales for this (like dropros magnetic scales, or generic/import glass scales). that would remove the only con I see in this setup.
> ...



And this is what is probably a patentable idea.  BT xmitters will run for months on a small AAA-size battery and are dime-a-dozen.  I've never looked at how scales operate and how much power they need but, if a standard interface between a DRO scale and a BT transmitter were developed (assuming it's not already been done) it would be a marketable item and worth a design patent.  Design patents have their issues though and a more desirable utility patent could potentially result in the standardization of the interface and protocol of the DRO scale information on both sides of BT xmitter.   Somehow though, I have to believe that the high-end CNC machines are already going things like this...


Ray


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## ycroosh (Jun 5, 2013)

PurpLev said:


> Just got notice that the DRO is en-route...
> 
> Yuriy - I checked our your blog and your app - they are sweet and very inspiring - thanks for putting it all out there (now if I only had time to play around with it...)
> 
> ...




Sharon,
The "magic" of this design is the Arduino controller. The one I posted uses iGaging scales because my toy budget is VERY limited and iGagign scales was all I could afford, but it can be reprogrammed to use the glass scales in a weekend (literally). There is even a shield for that.
One of my readers developed a version that used 4 calipers (with basically the same hardware). I even helped him to write some of the firmware, but then he refused to share the design and disappeared ...
This summer I was planning to get a set of glass scales and create a controller for them. From reading the data sheets they are basically incremental quadrature encoders, so I "remain optimistic". 

Thank you
Yuriy


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## Dunc1 (Jun 5, 2013)

Joined this a little late and with a very hazy idea of what's up (in other words, I don't have a clue).

To run this on a mill what is needed: scales, software, display readout (I think this is supposed to be an Android-based smartphone or maybe a tablet), some software and? Is there a website with hook-it-together & how-it works instructions?

Thanks


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## kd4gij (Jun 5, 2013)

Dunc1 said:


> Joined this a little late and with a very hazy idea of what's up (in other words, I don't have a clue).
> 
> To run this on a mill what is needed: scales, software, display readout (I think this is supposed to be an Android-based smartphone or maybe a tablet), some software and? Is there a website with hook-it-together & how-it works instructions?
> 
> Thanks




  the link is in post #13


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## cuseguy (Jul 23, 2014)

The DRO itself isn't bad. The readout is decent with typical aluminum cast housing. The scales cheap out a little with less wiper protection than the kits from Dro-Pros...The bigger problem is customer service at DROKITS.Com. I tried to contact the folks at DROKITS numerous times within the first month, to return a faulty scale. They did not respond at all. I finally had to buy a replacement scale from DRO-PROs and then file a Paypal complaint against DROKITS to recover my money on the faulty scale that I returned. They never even responded to that and Paypal returned my funds. But still it was needless hassle. 
I know this thread is older but my point is buyer beware of DROKITS.com 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3.


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## xalky (Jul 23, 2014)

cuseguy said:


> The DRO itself isn't bad. The readout is decent with typical aluminum cast housing. The scales cheap out a little with less wiper protection than the kits from Dro-Pros...The bigger problem is customer service at DROKITS.Com. I tried to contact the folks at DROKITS numerous times within the first month, to return a faulty scale. They did not respond at all. I finally had to buy a replacement scale from DRO-PROs and then file a Paypal complaint against DROKITS to recover my money on the faulty scale that I returned. They never even responded to that and Paypal returned my funds. But still it was needless hassle.
> I know this thread is older but my point is buyer beware of DROKITS.com
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3.


I have one DRO from drokits.com that I've been using for a couple of months and its a tremendous value. I liked it so much that I'm getting another one for my other lathe. It should be here on Friday. I haven't had any problems so far. 

Something worth mentioning is that I think that DROpros and DROkits are the same people. I've recieved e-mail from drokits with the dropros e-mail address. 

The DRO scales from DROkits work absolutely perfect. It amazes me everytime I check the actual part measurements that it's spot on with the dro reading. )

Marcel


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## cuseguy (Jul 23, 2014)

xalky said:


> I have one DRO from drokits.com that I've been using for a couple of months and its a tremendous value. I liked it so much that I'm getting another one for my other lathe. It should be here on Friday. I haven't had any problems so far.
> 
> Something worth mentioning is that I think that DROpros and DROkits are the same people. I've recieved e-mail from drokits with the dropros e-mail address.
> 
> ...



I agree also that they are the same people or have a  connection. I know that DROKITS shipments show up in UPS as Dro-Pros billing information.
As far as being a good deal. As I said, the unit is decent. Not the best and not the worst. I have 2 other DRO's to base that on. A Dropros mid level unit, a Newall and now the DROKITS unit. So I expect a DRO to hold an accurate measurement. That being said. With no customer service to speak of, the DROKITS deal is not feeling so awesome. You havent had any issues where you have needed them. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3.


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