# Just brought home a South Bend 9A...



## thenrie (Dec 8, 2013)

It's going to need some work.

I am up to my ears in a rebuild of a Delta Rockwell 11 (you can find my thread on that forum) and needed the use of a lathe to make several shafts and odd-sized bushings. I learned that a friend of mine had a lathe that belonged to her late husband, whom I knew only slightly before his passing. She said I could use the lathe if it would work. I went to take a look and found this SB 9A looking pretty sad and lonely, not to mention covered in rust, grime, and bird poop. Nevertheless, I fired it up and did a couple test cuts and found it actually functions. I found several live and dead centers, a 3-jaw and a 4-jaw chuck, a collet closer and a set of Hardinge 3-C collets, but no adapter or spindle thread protector. The lathe has a taper attachment as well. All were covered in a layer of surface rust. The motor, the 1/4hp original, works, but has to be hand-started.

I went to her and threw out a couple options to her. First, I told her I'd like to buy it. If she didn't want to sell it, the second option was to take it to my shop for a couple months, where I would clean it up and adjust it, then use it to make my parts, then return it. I told her I thought it was worth, in its present state, about $3-500, but that if I took it and cleaned it up, she should be able to sell it in the $1,000 range. I felt like this was an honest assessment, after having watched the market around here for several months. She took that information to a close friend of hers who is a machinist and owns a welding and fabrication shop. He confirmed my assessment and she returned to me with a price of $500, to include all appertaining tooling and accessories. I accepted the offer. When I went to pick it up yesterday, I told her there were several parts that I was sure her husband had, but I didn't see with the lathe. She allowed me to go through his workshop looking for parts (that was a chore, since her hired hand has literally stuffed the workshop with junk since her husband's passing). After some serious digging, I came upon a small tool box. I was happy to find the box contained the collet adapter and thread protector, a set of Rivett collets, several items of Starrett, Brown and Sharpe, and Mitutoyo mics and other measuring tools, as well as several dead centers, bits, and other small items. The one thing I did not find was a faceplate or dog driver. Anyhow, she threw the whole tool box into the deal.

One thing I got was this tiny little milling attachment-looking thing. Cutest thing you ever saw. Pics below. The graduated collar and handle look like South Bend items. If anybody has any information on it, I'd like to know. There are no manufacturer markings on it.

I spent all day yesterday disassembling and cleaning. It's not in as bad of condition as it appears. Most of the "rust" on it turned out to be just gunk and is cleaning off, but I have never in my life seen so many mud-dauber wasp nests! I also found that every oil hole on the machine was plugged with cut-bee and mud-dauber nests. Everything feels tight and smooth, though. The chucks, centers, and other tooling is cleaning up nicely in the rust remover fluid (I found that heating it in an old crock pot on low enhances the rust-removing action). As I clean, I am finding that the 2-3 coats of paint are essentially dissolving and chipping off in large chips. I won't be able to paint it immediately, but will get to it as soon as I get the DR lathe reassembled. I will clean the headstock, end gears, and QCGB this week and hopefully put her into service making shafts and bushings for the DR.

I'll post more as I progress. The parts on the work bench are from the DR. The SB parts are in the crock pot being de-rusted.


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## cuseguy (Dec 8, 2013)

Definitely a very fair deal, especially for a taper attachment and the extras. Not sure about the milling attachment. It is not SB, that much I'm sure of. But it looks pretty serviceable for small work. My first guess is that it is off a Chinese machine. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3


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## Kroll (Dec 8, 2013)

Underneath all that bird poop is a jem of a lathe and finding the accessories is very nice---kroll


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## thenrie (Dec 8, 2013)

cuseguy said:


> Definitely a very fair deal, especially for a taper attachment and the extras. Not sure about the milling attachment. It is not SB, that much I'm sure of. But it looks pretty serviceable for small work. My first guess is that it is off a Chinese machine.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3



I think it's probably been around longer than the Chinese have been making lathes.

Just figured out I am missing the right side bed bracket for the taper attachment. I imagine that's going to be a difficult piece to find.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm going to need new drive belts. I plan on using a ribbed serpentine for the headstock belt, but wondering if anyone has a part number for the motor drive belt to the big pulley. I expect a comparable belt can be found at the local auto parts store, no?


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## woodtickgreg (Dec 9, 2013)

Nice find, and one that is worthy of a restore.


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## GK1918 (Dec 9, 2013)

oooh  it looks like a long bed too...  $500 worth and a free lathe.  Motor needs a push? I bet 10 bucks the centrifical switch is just dirty squirt of brake cleaner will fix that.  You get the score of the month award !!!!!!!


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## thenrie (Dec 9, 2013)

42" bed on it. Somebody at some point appears to have used the end of the bed for an anvil and apparently used a cold chisel to cut something. My bet is the hired man who handles chores on the farm after the old man passed away. Heck of it is that he did it right on top of the serial number. Not sure I can make it all out. I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

Finished the cleanup today...well almost all of it. Just gave it a sort of "spit-shine" for now. I need to get it working, so I can get it making parts for the DR11. As soon as that's done, this baby will get a truly worthy cleanup and a new paint job. During cleanup I uncovered three different colors: original light green-gray, dark gray, royal blue. Most of the paint is chipping off or simply dissolving as I clean, so a lot of the castings are now bare metal. The good part is that apparently I'm not the first to go through this machine. So far I have yet to come across any parts that look like they need to be replaced, except the belts. Many of the gears still look pretty new. Even the lead screw looks very nice and very little backlash in the compound, although the cross slide has some.

I did find, however, that I am missing the bed clamp bracket for the taper attachment and the back side bed clamps for the saddle. I'll need to track those down.

The rusted parts are cleaning up very well. Got the 4-jaw cleaned up and installed on the lathe today. The 3-jaw is in the rust remover crock pot tonight. Got the taper attachment and the end gears cleaned up. Decided the QCGB looks ok, so I decided not to pull it this time. Just clean what I can reach and lube it.

I'm awaiting some Shars dial indicators, a magnetic base, and some way and headstock oils. By the time they get here I'll have the motor gone through and cleaned up. Once those items arrive I'll be able to get things leveled out, set up, and start making chips. 

More pics tomorrow.


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## thenrie (Dec 10, 2013)

Finished the cleanup and actually did a couple test cuts today. I don't have a precision level, so I turned a test piece about 9" long from a scrap rod I had. Got it to within .0005 on both ends. I also disassembled, cleaned, de-rusted, lubed, and reassembled the 2-jaw today. Feels nice and smooth now. I did the 4-jaw yesterday.  You see the 4-jaw on the lathe. The lathe runs quiet and everything feels smooth and tight. Still doesn't look like much, but I won't be able to remedy that for a couple months.

I started on a new bench for it today. I had some 2x2x3/16 steel tube on the shop floor that was intended to become a belt grinder. That will have to wait. Need a bench now. I used the 1x2x1/8 that was supposed to become my welding cart for the crossmembers. Ran short on that. I'll have to finish it later this week. It will have drawers, a cabinet, shelves, and leveling feet when completed. Should add some weight and stability to the machine, which the old wooden bench does not.

Received my SB overhaul kit (new wicks and wipes) and the manual this evening. I'll hopefully get those installed this week as well.

Also received my new Palmgren 250 milling attachment. That will allow me to cut my own keyways and do some other limited milling.


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## thenrie (Dec 10, 2013)

And now a question for all you South Bend afficionados. The serial number on my lathe appears to have been purposely obliterated. Any ideas as to why that might have been done? 

As close as I can make out, the serial number is US 23 179323. Could be 179293, 283? 288? 388? Does the US mean country of manufacture or did it once belong to the US govt?


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## woodtickgreg (Dec 10, 2013)

Pretty sure that was a gov. lathe.


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## thenrie (Dec 10, 2013)

From what I can tell, it appears to be a 1946 model, which was about what I had guessed when I bought it. Still can't figure out why someone would have obliterated the serial number.:think1:


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## 12bolts (Dec 10, 2013)

Nice score and nice job on the clean up.



thenrie said:


> .... I also disassembled, cleaned, de-rusted, lubed, and reassembled the *2-jaw* today. Feels nice and smooth now......



Tony, is that just a mis spell? Or did that come with the lathe also?

Cheers Phil


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## thenrie (Dec 11, 2013)

Oops! Typo. Came with a 3-jaw and a 4-jaw. I cleaned and lubed the 3-jaw yesterday.


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## astjp2 (Dec 11, 2013)

Tony, I thought you were not supposed to use the tail stock when turning for alignment, it should only check the head vs. the carriage.  I am over halfway through the Connelley book and that is how I understand what it describes.  Tim


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## thenrie (Dec 11, 2013)

I haven't read that particular book, but others, including the South Bend book, say you can align the lathe by turning a test piece and measuring near the chuck and near the tailstock center. You're actually supposed to turn it between two centers, but I just dialed-in my 4-jaw with a tool in the holder and did it that way. The long and short is that if the lathe is turning both ends the same diameter, it's good. My test piece wasn't as long as recommended, and I didn't worry about polishing it or getting a perfect finish, but it's good enough for what I'm doing right now.

Maybe somebody who has a little more experience could chime in here and give us a little coaching.


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## thenrie (Dec 21, 2013)

I've been making some nice chips with my SB9. So far, in making parts for my Delta Rockwell 11 lathe, I've learned to do the following:

- basic turning
- tool bit grinding
- parting off
- chamfering
- making and using mandrels
- screw threading
- Lathe setup and adjustment
- cleaning and maintaining the SB lathe

Monday I'll learn how to use a boring bar to resize a bushing to fit a freshly ground journal in the DR 11 spindle.

Here's a pic of some of the shafts I've made to replace worn parts in the DR.








Here's a pic of me turning the last .002 off the OD of a bushing to resize it for a press fit into the pulley gear for the DR. The SB is working like a charm.



I also got to use the Palmgren milling attachment to drill an angled oil hole in a shaft (photo above of the shaft). I forgot to get a picture of the process. I also need to post a picture of my first effort at cutting threads. I cut threads on the end of a shaft that fits into a cylindrical nut. Amazingly, it came out perfect.

I'm having fun!


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## ARM (Dec 22, 2013)

Hello  there TONY 
Hats  off  to U, Sir
What a  sterling  piece  of  restoration.  And  to get those  kind  of  finishes.........
Truly  admirable  !!!
We  can  only  drool  over  this  type  of  machine  and  output.
U  Guys  are gifted.
All  the  best
aRM


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## thenrie (Dec 24, 2013)

Thanks ARM. I'm just learning. Getting lucky, I guess.

Here's a shot of me learning how to use the boring bar. That's the bushing for the pulley gear from the headstock of my Delta Rockwell 11 being turned on my South Bend 9A. You see the pulley gear chucked up in my 4-jaw, dialed to less than .0005 runout on both ends, froze the bushing and slid it into place, then turned the inside diameter to within .016 of the outside diameter of the fresh spindle journal it will run on. Now I'll take the pulley gear and spindle to a local machine shop to have the bushings reamed to the finished size. The reason I had to do it this way is because I had to have the spindle journal turned down about .020, due to wear from poor lubrication. I bought bushings that were 2.250 on the ID and turned them to 1.986. The new journal is 2.002.

Making parts for the Delta Rockwell on the South Bend has been a great learning experience. I've had to do a wide variety of first-time operations. So far, nothing has turned to scrap (knock on wood).


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## markknx (Dec 25, 2013)

I think the No. might be Either from the gov. when they sold it or it may have been stolen at some point.


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## thenrie (Dec 25, 2013)

The fact that it has U.S. stamped on it leads me to believe it was a govt machine. I don't think that was normally a part of the SB serial number. The person who owned the machine before me was beyond reproach, and he owned it for a long time, possibly even got it from his father, so I doubt seriously it was a stolen machine at any time. I can't figure why the govt would have tried to obliterate the serial number, though, unless they just wanted the machine destroyed. For a while there after WW2, the govt, or at least certain agencies, didn't have an easy way to convert govt property to private use when it was surplussed, so it was simply destroyed and recycled for the metal. I'm thinking this unit was "destroyed" by some enterprising person who saved it from the smelter.

Regardless of its provenance, I'm please with the way it's cutting.


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## thenrie (Dec 31, 2013)

Worked a little more on the workbench yesterday. Got a couple cross braces welded on and got the pads made for the adjustable feet. Got one foot pad tacked onto a leg. To make the foot pads, I cut 2X2X1/2" pieces from a piece of 1/2" X 2" bar stock, ground them to clean up the edges, then chucked them in my 4-jaw to drill and start the 1/2 - 13 tap. Then I welded a 1/2 - 13 nut to one side to give additional thread and strength to hold the foot, then tacked it to the end of the leg. I'll finish the welds on all four sides, then grind them smooth, just for looks. I will weld 6 tabs to the top members, which will be used to attach a top made of 1-1/2X2 lumber bolted together and finished with boiled linseed oil. That will probably get a sheet of 10 ga steel on top of it, to make it more durable and easier to clean. The workbench will get Rustoleum primer and Rustoleum black paint. Later, I'll build a machinist tool chest full of drawers to fit under the worktop.

Fun.




I also took some pictures of the taper attachment, while I was answering some questions on another thread. Thought I'd go ahead and post them here. I have what is called in the South Bend catalogs as a "Plain Taper Attachment", which means you have to remove a screw in the cross slide that retains the cross feed nut in order to use the taper attachment. When the taper attachment is used, a bed clamp (which my unit is still lacking) is clamped to the bed and the screw mentioned is removed, and the handle you see on the taper attachment is locked down, thus allowing the cross slide to move with the taper attachment as it slides along its length, which is set at the desired angle. When the taper attachment is not in use, the bed clamp is loosened, as is the handle on top, and the screw is replaced to secure the feed nut. The whole taper attachment then moves parallel to the bed with the carriage, longitudinally, and the cross slide is again operated by the handwheel. Because of that, many people remove the bed clamp to avoid needless wear from it sliding along the bedway. Somewhere along the way in the life of my lathe, the bed clamp got separated from the lathe and was lost. Apparently this isn't an uncommon problem, as I have seen a number of taper attachments that are missing the bed clamp bracket. I have located a bed clamp, but must wait a bit to buy it (Christmas must get paid for first, you know).







Lathe is a little dirty, since I had just finished drilling and tapping the workbench feet. Can't wait to be able to take the lathe down and clean and paint everything. Got to get my DR operational first.


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## radial1951 (Jan 1, 2014)

astjp2 said:


> Tony, I thought you were not supposed to use the tail stock when turning for alignment, it should only check the head vs. the carriage.  Tim





thenrie said:


> I haven't read that particular book, but others, including the South Bend book, say you can align the lathe by turning a test piece and measuring near the chuck and near the tailstock center. You're actually supposed to turn it between two centers, but I just dialed-in my 4-jaw with a tool in the holder and did it that way. The long and short is that if the lathe is turning both ends the same diameter, it's good. My test piece wasn't as long as recommended, and I didn't worry about polishing it or getting a perfect finish, but it's good enough for what I'm doing right now.
> 
> Maybe somebody who has a little more experience could chime in here and give us a little coaching.



Hi Tony,

Sorry to tell you this, but adjusting the tailstock to turn a test piece between centres to the same diameter at each end, does nothing to adjust the lathe to turn truly parallel. You can adjust the tailstock to give you the same diameter at each end of a long test piece, but a piece held in the chuck will be machined out of parallel if the bed has an induced twist in it. And you cannot "pull" the free end of a workpiece into the right place with a tailstock centre.

The correct method is to bolt the headstock end of the bed solid to the bench, then tighten the bed hold-down bolts at the tailstock end firm onto appropriate pieces of shim material, to reduce the chance of inducing a stress (twist) into the bed casting while taking the first test cut.

A piece of easy machining material, I use aluminium, approx 1"+ dia and 6" long, is held in the 4 jaw chuck, without any support at the outer end. The centre section is turned a little smaller (undercut) than the ends, to leave a "collar" at each end. A light cut is then taken over the raised "collar" sections at each end, without changing the cross slide setting.

If the OUTER collar is LARGER than the Left Hand collar, it means the tool is moving away from the workpiece as the carriage moves along the bed from left to right. That is, the bed has a slight twist in it. Therefore a shim should be placed under the FRONT of the tailstock foot of the bed or the front leg if the lathe is on a stand. The hold-down bolts are tightened firm on the shims, and another very light cut is taken.

If the OUTER collar is SMALLER than the LH collar, the shim goes under the REAR of the tailstock end foot. The hold-down bolts are re-tightened after each test cut, and remain tight when the lathe is finally turning PARALLEL, which may require quite a few test cuts. ONLY NOW do you adjust (align) the tailstock to turn a shaft parallel between centres. I think South Bend's "How To Run A Lathe " and other books describe how to set up a lathe. It makes no difference if the lathe weighs 200lbs or 2 tons, or even if the lathe is level or not (Lathes in a ship's workshop are level only every now and then!). It is the STRAIGHTNESS of the bed ways when the machine is bolted down that matters.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


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## thenrie (Jan 1, 2014)

Thanks for that. Good info.


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## wa5cab (Jan 2, 2014)

Actually, the procedure of turning a test piece held between centers to give the same diameter on both ends is for zeroing out the tailstock backset.  It assumes that the bed is already straight and level.

Unless you are actually aboard a DD or an AD, the quicker method for leveling and removing any twist from the bed is with a precision level.

Robert D.

CWO4 USN Ret'd.


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## thenrie (Jan 3, 2014)

Worked a bit more on the workbench for the lathe today. Had my son-in-law here to help and things went fairly quickly. Time to come in now and do my granddaughter duty. Some pics for your enjoyment.







Too bad I decided to grind off the feet to blend them with the legs. Made it so you can't see my beautifully flawless welds:biggrin:. 

The bottom will get a 1/2" ply floor and the top will be 2-1/2" pine, made up of 1-1/2" X 2-1/2" boards (cut from 2X4s) bolted together with 5/16 threaded rod to make a 30X48" top. The top will get several coats of boiled linseed oil and a piece of 10 ga steel overlaying it. Got most of the woodwork done today as well. I just lack drilling the wood for the threaded rod, bolting it all together, and applying the finish.


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## thenrie (Jan 18, 2014)

This week I repaired two vehicles and a washing machine, but today I finally got back to working on my lathe rebuild.

Finished cutting the keyways on the shafts for the DR11 apron and gear box, which I made on the South Bend 9A. 

Got good use out of the Palmgren Milling attachment I bought for the job of cutting the keyways. Learned some things on the way. Firstly, make sure everything is locked down tight before you start milling! On my first try the milling attachment moved, breaking my 3/16 end mill bit and leaving a small tell-tale mark on the shaft. Not a big problem, just a learning experience. Shaft is fine. I'm pleased with the way they have turned out.  In fact, they have turned out so well, I have decided to replace three more shafts in the gear box that I had originally decided to leave as-is.





I had to cut the 3/16 keyway in the 3/4" shaft for the tumbler gears using a 3/16" end mill. Since the shaft was longer than the range of my cross slide, I had to cut the keyway from each end, meeting in the middle. There is a ring clip that divides the two ways for the tumbler gears in the middle, so I milled the slot from each end to the clip groove. Had to get it just right, because both tumbler gears must be mounted from the same end of the shaft and the right one must be able to slide past where the two keyways meet in the middle. Came out perfect.

In the picture of the shafts, the originals are on the right and the new shafts on the left. I learned a lot of different operations in the process of making them. One of the shafts I'll be making next week has two diameters in the middle (3/4" and 1/2") and different size threads on both ends. Should be a fun and interesting challenge for me.


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## drs23 (Jan 18, 2014)

Very interesting project. Good job!


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## dfwcnc (Jan 19, 2014)

Nice Bench.


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## msilhunter1 (Jan 25, 2014)

great job


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## thenrie (Feb 11, 2014)

Well, I have finished all the replacement shafts for the gearbox of the Delta Rockwell 11" lathe. Sadly, just after threading the end of the last shaft, the South Bend's gearbox jammed. I haven't figured out what happened yet, because I haven't been able to take it apart yet. I still needed it to finish milling the keyways in the shafts. I was able to do that by disengaging both tumblers, so that the spindle would turn, but, of course, I have no auto feed.  I was able to successfully cut all the keyways, using the milling attachment and hand feeding.

Now, if anybody has any ideas about what to look for in the gearbox of the SB9A, I'd appreciate the help. Now that I have the DR gearbox back together, I should be able to take time to look into the SB's gearbox.








Pictured are all the shafts I made on the SB9A for my DR11, along with the originals.

I also replaced all the bushings in the DR gearbox. I found the ODs of the bushings to be between .007 and .010 too large for the holes they were supposed to fit in. I used the SB9A to make mandrels, on which I turned down all the bushings to about .002 over, for a press fit. I also used the SB to make my own bushing driver set to install the bushings.




So, finished with that project. Now I need to get the DR working, so I can take down the SB9A and overhaul it.)


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## woodtickgreg (Feb 12, 2014)

Awesome work on that gear box, looks great!


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## CoopVA (Feb 12, 2014)

That's some good stuff there!  Thanks for sharing!


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## thenrie (Feb 22, 2014)

Finished the workbench for the South Bend lathe. Now I need to build a machinist's box to fit under it to hold the tooling in an organized and protected way. I hope to get the lathe transferred from the old workbench to the new one next week. More pictures then.




You can see the lathe bed of the Delta Rockwell I have been working on in the background. Just got it out of the rust-remover solution and rinsed it off. I'm hoping I'll get it back together and running within two weeks, so I can start on the overhaul of the South Bend 9A.


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