# Urgent request for assistance - Bridgeport-related



## lawlessman (Nov 30, 2014)

*Help! I have a Bridgeport BOSS 6 in it's original state. I have used everything from a teletype (back in the early 80's) to a "dumb terminal" to a computer to communicate with it. My latest setup was an old 486 computer running Dos 6.22 and Windows 3.11. Since I still cling to my old EZ-CAM (Ver 6) I was able to use the "windows-based" applet UTLS.EXE from Bridgeport EZ-CAM to upload programs to the machine, and had configured Windows 3.11's TERMINAL EXE applet to do the editing. All has worked well for many years. However, the power supply on the comuter died and I don't have another old machine to put the hard drive in. I have been trying to find a reasonably priced "AT" style power supply. I finally bought one on EBAY, but it won't get here for 10 days. I have tried installing the hard drive on a newer computer, but it won't boot the Windows 3.11 program because of the old memory configurations and such.
What I am looking for is a utility or applet compatible with Windows XP or 98  that can do the same extremely simple job as the old Terminal exe.  I tried Hyperterminal in XP, but I couldn't get it to communicate. I downloaded the Terminal.EXE applet from Windows 3.11,  but the machine I tried to use HAS NO USEABLE COM PORTS, except LPT1, which Terminal.Exe doesn't recognize. 
Has anybody faced this situation (dealing with a 45 year-old communication protocol with a much newer computer)? And, more important, how did you fix it? Yup, the teletype-to-cnc protocol was first used over 45 years ago. Hard to believe, isn't it?
Any help would be appreciated until I can get the old computer fixed. If the "temporary" fix works, I may abandon Windows 3.11 for good. Feel free to communicate directly with me at lawlessman1@hotmail.com
Thanks,
Fred


*


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## xalky (Nov 30, 2014)

Did you try installing the hard drive as a secondary hard drive and using the existing c: drive to boot with. An alternative to this might be to use a boot disc to acces the files. what you don't want to do is attempt to boot from the old drive on the new computer. If you can boot from the new computers drive and then you shold be able to navigate through the files on the old drive. The other problem might be the file format on the old drive. I'm not sure if you can have different file format drives on the same computer but I think you can, provided that you make sure you setup the drive properties correctly when you install the drive. Just make sure that the drive assignment for the old drive is not your c: drive so that the new machine doesn't attempt to boot from it.

It's a pita. It might take you a couple of days just to get it figured out. It might just be easier in the long run to just wait for the power supply.


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## easymike29 (Nov 30, 2014)

I have no experience in this but have you looked into Virtual PC?

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3243

Gene


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## JimDawson (Nov 30, 2014)

Google ''usb to serial adapter''   You should be able to buy one locally for about $25.  I have successfully used these in some industrial applications.  I don't know if it will work in your application.  In the XP computer, it handles just like a comm port.

I wish they still put hardware comm ports on the new computers, a lot of the stuff I work with only communicates via serial.


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## SEK_22Hornet (Nov 30, 2014)

Ok - you really didn't say what you needed hardware wise to talk to the mill, but I'm guessing that it is a serial port - if that is the case, and the XP machine does not have one, getting to the files is pretty much a moot point. As for adding a serial port, there are add on cards that would add a hardware based serial port, which would get you closer. Do you know what type of expansion slots you have open (if any) in the XP machine? I agree that you should be able to add the old hard drive as a second hard drive to the XP machine, assuming you have the right type of controller available (most likely a parallel IDE since it is from a 486, but it could be SCSI). If not, you should be able to get an external USB enclosure to put the old drive in and connect it to the XP machine using USB. Hopefully, the XP machine is a desk top and not a laptop machine. Once you get the hardware you need, there are other options, including a virtual PC program, that would allow you to run the original software.


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## lawlessman (Nov 30, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't explain it all in my first posting, but I tried most of that already, and my biggest problem is the computer that I have available cannot be configured to have a COM1 or 2, or 3, or 4, which are the only ports recognized by the old Terminal EXE program. 
As you suggest, it may be easier in the long run to wait, but I'm losing money every day it's down. I'm looking at an older computer on craigslist locally that may be sufficiently "un-advanced" to fill the need. At least, maybe it will have COM ports. Terminal.EXE will work as a standalone program, but you gotta have a com port. 
Here's a crazy thing, the computer I have been trying to use has 7, yes, 7 ports configured, between 4 USB, an SD card/micro-sd card reader, and a "micro-drive" port, plus the one and only serial port, the LPT1 port. It will not accept the change of the LPT1 to a COM1 port. In the common phraseology, How dumb is that??? 
Fred



xalky said:


> Did you try installing the hard drive as a secondary hard drive and using the existing c: drive to boot with. An alternative to this might be to use a boot disc to acces the files. what you don't want to do is attempt to boot from the old drive on the new computer. If you can boot from the new computers drive and then you shold be able to navigate through the files on the old drive. The other problem might be the file format on the old drive. I'm not sure if you can have different file format drives on the same computer but I think you can, provided that you make sure you setup the drive properties correctly when you install the drive. Just make sure that the drive assignment for the old drive is not your c: drive so that the new machine doesn't attempt to boot from it.
> 
> It's a pita. It might take you a couple of days just to get it figured out. It might just be easier in the long run to just wait for the power supply.


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## lawlessman (Nov 30, 2014)

THank you,
I will look into that. I have no experience with virtual machines, but I will see what it offers.

Fred



easymike29 said:


> I have no experience in this but have you looked into Virtual PC?
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3243
> 
> Gene


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## lawlessman (Nov 30, 2014)

Thank you for the response.
I need an identified COM port, LPT1 won't work. I haven't been able to define a COM port on the computer I have, it is elegantly dumb. For hardware. I can communicate with the B'port with the simplest of equipment. It takes 3 wires to connect to the machine--send, receive, common. I can communicate at a whopping 2400 baud. That's about 5 minutes to load a 8 k-byte program. As far as the editing, I can use a simple data terminal. I had some luck with using data terminals (in the 90's they were super cheap) but it was often difficult to get the program into the machine, so I ended up typing it in on the terminal. Cumbersome. Ever type a manuscript-length program into a machine that doesn't talk back? Then try to de-bug it one line at a time? Even more cumbersome. When I found the Terminal.exe program in Windows 3.11 (Windows for Workgroups), it worked well for the editing, emulating a dumb terminal very well, and I could use the EZ-Cam UTLS.EXE program as a standalone for up and down loading. Since they both used the com1 port, I had to switch back and forth, closing one to use the other, but that was relatively easy. Now, I can do neither. 
Fred





SEK_22Hornet said:


> Ok - you really didn't say what you needed hardware wise to talk to the mill, but I'm guessing that it is a serial port - if that is the case, and the XP machine does not have one, getting to the files is pretty much a moot point. As for adding a serial port, there are add on cards that would add a hardware based serial port, which would get you closer. Do you know what type of expansion slots you have open (if any) in the XP machine? I agree that you should be able to add the old hard drive as a second hard drive to the XP machine, assuming you have the right type of controller available (most likely a parallel IDE since it is from a 486, but it could be SCSI). If not, you should be able to get an external USB enclosure to put the old drive in and connect it to the XP machine using USB. Hopefully, the XP machine is a desk top and not a laptop machine. Once you get the hardware you need, there are other options, including a virtual PC program, that would allow you to run the original software.


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## JimDawson (Nov 30, 2014)

lawlessman said:


> ....plus the one and only serial port, the LPT1 port. It will not accept the change of the LPT1 to a COM1 port. In the common phraseology, How dumb is that???
> Fred




Unfortunately, the LPT1 port is not a serial port.  It's a parallel port, and as far as I know, there is no way to make a serial port out of it.

What you might try to do is disable all of the ports in the device manager, and try to get Windows to reassign the ports to something more useful to you.  But you are still going to need a USB to serial adapter, or a hardware add-in card with a serial port.


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## John Hasler (Nov 30, 2014)

lawlessman said:


> Thank you for the response.
> I need an identified COM port, LPT1 won't work. I haven't been able to define a COM port on the computer I have, it is elegantly dumb. For hardware. I can communicate with the B'port with the simplest of equipment. It takes 3 wires to connect to the machine--send, receive, common. I can communicate at a whopping 2400 baud. That's about 5 minutes to load a 8 k-byte program. As far as the editing, I can use a simple data terminal. I had some luck with using data terminals (in the 90's they were super cheap) but it was often difficult to get the program into the machine, so I ended up typing it in on the terminal. Cumbersome. Ever type a manuscript-length program into a machine that doesn't talk back? Then try to de-bug it one line at a time? Even more cumbersome. When I found the Terminal.exe program in Windows 3.11 (Windows for Workgroups), it worked well for the editing, emulating a dumb terminal very well, and I could use the EZ-Cam UTLS.EXE program as a standalone for up and down loading. Since they both used the com1 port, I had to switch back and forth, closing one to use the other, but that was relatively easy. Now, I can do neither.
> Fred



Do you have USB?  USB to serial adapters are readily available.  With the right drivers they will appear as COM ports in your OS.


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## Stonebriar (Nov 30, 2014)

Have you looked at one of these. The define as a com port. I have used one on cisco gear.  

[h=1]Keyspan High-Speed USB to Serial Adapter[/h][h=2]*Model Number: *USA-19HS[/h]


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## xalky (Nov 30, 2014)

In any case, Its a good idea to stock up on obsolete hardware for just such occasions. I have 2 obsolete dell dimension computers with serial and parrallel ports in addition to the one running my cnc  plasma cutter for such occassions. I paid $40 ea for them from a local computer shop in my area.  I felt like I won the lottery! Nobody advertises this old stuff on ebay anymore because they figure that nobody wants it. A computer repair place in your locality might be able to hook you up with some old parts that they never got around to throwing out yet.


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## alloy (Nov 30, 2014)

I know this isn't the instant fix you need right now, but I had a Series II Bridgeport BOSS 6 mill and got tired of the problems blowing transistors and the lack of memory.  I bought a Ah-HA Design controller and used there software to retrofit my mill.  The difference was fantastic. I had unlimited memory and a computer controlled the machine.  It was the best thing I ever did for the old Bridgeport until I sold it and bought a VMC.  As far as I now almost 10 years later the machine is still in use.  


http://www.matronics.com/cnc/gear.htm


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## Karl_T (Nov 30, 2014)

alloy said:


> I know this isn't the instant fix you need right now, but I had a Series II Bridgeport BOSS 6 mill and got tired of the problems blowing transistors and the lack of memory.  I bought a Ah-HA Design controller and used there software to retrofit my mill.  The difference was fantastic. I had unlimited memory and a computer controlled the machine.  It was the best thing I ever did for the old Bridgeport until I sold it and bought a VMC.  As far as I now almost 10 years later the machine is still in use.
> 
> 
> http://www.matronics.com/cnc/gear.htm



FINALLY found somebody else that used AHHA!  I used it for several years. One great control but they are out of business.

To the OP, for sure find something to get you past this emergency. but you are LONG overdue to upgrade your control. BOSS 6 is servos, correct? I'd start learning all about LinuxCNC if I were you.

Karl


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## alloy (Nov 30, 2014)

I didn't know they were out of business. That's really too bad, but I guess there aren't many of the older machines around that use steppers anymore so their business probably went away for them.  They saved my bacon years ago on my Bridgeport. And BOSS 6 is steppers, not servos. 

Before I went to the AH-Ha design drive setup I used a card from Slow Motion Controls.  It was an interface card and ran off a PC and used the Ah-Ha software.  I'm not sure if they are in business now either, but if they are maybe there is another software that their card could interface with and run the machine off of.

Ocassionally I see the old BOSS machines for sale for very cheap............and I mean cheap.  I was tempted to get one but now that I know Ah-Ha is out of business I'll think twice about that.  I do have lots of Universal Quick Switch II tool holders for one.  I'd sell them, but I got lucky and found an adapter for my R8 spindle and can use them in my manual.

I wish I could help more, I was in the same position years ago with my BOSS machine.


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## rdean (Nov 30, 2014)

What mother board is in the newer computer you are trying to use?  Brand name and number. What operating system is the main C drive using?
 From there we may be able to help you.

Ray


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## Karl_T (Nov 30, 2014)

alloy said:


> I didn't know they were out of business. That's really too bad, but I guess there aren't many of the older machines around that use steppers anymore so their business probably went away for them.  They saved my bacon years ago on my Bridgeport. And BOSS 6 is steppers, not servos.
> 
> ...



If the OP has a stepper machine, it is VERY EASY to upgrade to a Mach3 control. I'd really suggest this, after getting past the current emergency. 

Karl


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## kd4gij (Nov 30, 2014)

To the OP

 Check goodwill and outhers. Around here you can still get old computers there for 10 or 15 bucks.


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## cnc-me (Dec 15, 2014)

I have all sorts of OLD hard drives and even some old motherboards that are still new in the box. 
Also have a bunch of AT power supplies.
Let my know if you want to make a deal.


PS: Think you would be better off to get a serial card rather than using one of those USB adapters.
I'm sure you can get some software to make it work in XP.


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## lawlessman (Dec 16, 2014)

xalky said:


> In any case, Its a good idea to stock up on obsolete hardware for just such occasions. I have 2 obsolete dell dimension computers with serial and parrallel ports in addition to the one running my cnc  plasma cutter for such occassions. I paid $40 ea for them from a local computer shop in my area.  I felt like I won the lottery! Nobody advertises this old stuff on ebay anymore because they figure that nobody wants it. A computer repair place in your locality might be able to hook you up with some old parts that they never got around to throwing out yet.



Sorry for the slow response, I have been playing a sort of roulette game with computers and power supplies. My experience with EBAY is that people selling 386 and 486 computers must have realized there is a market for them, because I have seen them selling for hundreds of dollars, while Dell Optiplexes and more modern machines are super cheap.


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## lawlessman (Dec 16, 2014)

alloy said:


> I know this isn't the instant fix you need right now, but I had a Series II Bridgeport BOSS 6 mill and got tired of the problems blowing transistors and the lack of memory.  I bought a Ah-HA Design controller and used there software to retrofit my mill.  The difference was fantastic. I had unlimited memory and a computer controlled the machine.  It was the best thing I ever did for the old Bridgeport until I sold it and bought a VMC.  As far as I now almost 10 years later the machine is still in use.
> 
> 
> http://www.matronics.com/cnc/gear.htm



I know how nice those are/were. I bought a Machiine Masrter controller card in 2000 for my BOSS 5 cnc, which had blown a control board. After I found out how expensive the replacement board would be ($3500), I went looking and found MachineMaster (long out of business). The single board replaced all the control boards in the BOSS 5 and it runs off a 486 computer with software from "SLO-MOTION CONTROLS", which I have been told was an offshoot of AH-HA. I have never upgraded the software and have only blown a couple transistors in 14 years. The software has a couple quirks (no restart in the middle of the program, etc), but functions much faster and easier than the original. I got faster top speeds for the feeds, unlimited program size (I am currently running a 84k byte program), simple editing, instant program loads, and a lot of other things that I DON'T enjoy with my all original BOSS 6. Best 2 grand I ever invested. In terms of ease of use, the BOSS 5 rivals (close, but not quite equal) my Centroid M$) retrofitted BOSS 9, which cost me about $18k back in the mid-late 90's.


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## lawlessman (Dec 16, 2014)

cnc-me said:


> I have all sorts of OLD hard drives and even some old motherboards that are still new in the box.
> Also have a bunch of AT power supplies.
> Let my know if you want to make a deal.



DEAL? Oh yes, please.
My computer is apparently a franken-puter put together and sold by a local computer shop (gone and forgotten). It had a standard AT type power supply with the P8 and P9 connectors, the usual complement of 4-pin power connectors (molex and mini), and an external power switch on a long lead. The wires are about a foot long to reach the connectors on the MB. 
I bought one "AT" power supply on EBAY but it had P1 and P2 instead of P8 and P9, and one of the connectors was missing a wire, so I didn't dare use it. I bought another supposed AT power supply and it turned out to be an ATX. I looked into ATX to AT converter pugs, but ran into warnings about needing a -5 line from the power supply, which the one I bought didn't have (and my original did). 
So, if you have an AT power supply with P8 and P9 connectors, 6 wires per connector, and an external power switch, how much would you like for it and how fast can you send it?

I am running a 420 mb hard drive. Windows 3.11 (Windows for Workgroups) over Dos 6.22. And it works absolutely perfectly with the BOSS 6, if you accept the 2400 baud down- and up- loads. I can use the included Terminal.EXE app to connect and edit the program, and the EZCAM (ve3rsion 6) utility, aptly named Utils.exe or UTLS.exe is fine for the up/down load process.


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## lawlessman (Dec 16, 2014)

Karl_T said:


> If the OP has a stepper machine, it is VERY EASY to upgrade to a Mach3 control. I'd really suggest this, after getting past the current emergency.
> 
> Karl



Sorry for the slow responses to all the suggestions. I must be losing it, because I am unsure about the word "OP", 
but the BOSS 6 is a stepper machine, and, frankly, if I could afford it, I would have a retrofit on there faster than you can tell me what OP means. It is simply a matter of money, which is the ususal complaint, of course. It is why I have been advertising on Craigslist for old computers and looking all over (even the local goodwill type places) for old computers and power supplies. I have been offered computers running Vista, Windows 7, XP, and also a complete Tandy 1000 computer with monitor, printer and all software for $30.00. I already have one of those, too bad I can't use it for my current problem. Most people think last year's computer is outlandishly outdated, and I haven't found a lot of people who know what came before Windows Vista and XP. How soon the old technology is forgotten. I'm running 2 Bridgeport CNC's (1980 BOSS 5, 1981 BOSS 6) that were state-of-the-art when you loaded programs with a punched paper tape you made on a teletype, and one from the late 80's that was one of the first "knee-type" CNC's to use servos. And was a colossal failure at that. My grinder, lathe, B'port mill and even my air compressor are all at least 34 years old, and I have a horizontal mill as old as I am (67). I don't know what will last longer, me or the machines. 
Fred


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## lawlessman (Dec 16, 2014)

alloy said:


> I didn't know they were out of business. That's really too bad, but I guess there aren't many of the older machines around that use steppers anymore so their business probably went away for them.  They saved my bacon years ago on my Bridgeport. And BOSS 6 is steppers, not servos.
> 
> Before I went to the AH-Ha design drive setup I used a card from Slow Motion Controls.  It was an interface card and ran off a PC and used the Ah-Ha software.  I'm not sure if they are in business now either, but if they are maybe there is another software that their card could interface with and run the machine off of.
> 
> ...




Looks like we went the same route, more or less. The company I went to was called MachineMaster, and the guy behind that control card was named Darrell something. The software was from Slo-Motion Controls, which I read somewhere was an offshoot of AH-HA. The AH-HA retrofits were much more expensive and required a lot of gutting and installing, and frankly, I couldn't afford it. The MachineMaster board was an easy solution, and has worked well for years, but, with a couple weird quirks. There was a website for MachineMaster for a few years, and a subscription-only support program. I guess if you make a board for a little as he did, you need to make your fortune off the support subscriptions. Despite several inquiries and searches, I have been unable to track down anybody who knows anything about any available software updates or support. Even the guys on the AH-HA users' Yahoo group have almost no knowledge of that setup, the software, or whatever happened to "Darrell".  Most people who had originally got on the AH-HA wagon have gone to Mach software. I am not at all sure that the MM card would be compatible and
am not anxious to try until I do know for sure.


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## Cadillac STS (Dec 20, 2014)

"OP" means "Original Poster" you in this case.  It is really helpful to have the abbreviation OP because these threads go way off track for different reasons and if someone wants to refer back to the OP it is easier.  In this case he was saying if the original poster (You) had a stepper machine...


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