# Got The Hf Mill...now What?



## Dask62 (Feb 14, 2016)

After a 1.5 years of drooling to get my hands on a mini mill, I finally pulled the trigger and got one this week. During that 1.5 years, I researched adopting air springs, going to belt drive, taking apart 7 treadmills and ending up with numerous DC motors and control panels so I could use a set on the mill, changing out the screws to eliminate run out, eventually going full CNC and a ton of other modifications that I'm not gonna list. But, like the saying goes, you must first crawl before you walk. It can be a little over whelming trying to decide on the tooling to get started without braking the bank. 
So with that in mind, I have a few simple questions. 

1. R8 collets, what brand and size of set.

2. End mills. HF has a 20 piece set for $75. Is that a good price and has anyone had any experience with it.

3. Vise. I bought a Yost drill press style vise a year ago but it huge and heavy. Will it work on the mill?

4. Clamp set. Is the 58 piece set at HF a good set? 

Thanks ahead of time.
Dask


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## FOMOGO (Feb 14, 2016)

I've had pretty good luck with Enco for economical tooling, watch for the 20% off and free shipping deals. I think all the Chinese clamp sets are about the same. A pic of the vise would help, but generally speaking a dedicated mill vise will be your friend. The less expensive ones can usually be tuned up to meet your needs, or keep an eye on Craigs list for a high quality used piece. Welcome aboard. Mike


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## royesses (Feb 14, 2016)

The HF 58 piece clamp set uses 1/2" t-nuts. The mini mill needs 7/16" t-nuts. I purchased mine from LMS. Got my R8  collets from LMs.  3" precision vise from LMS 4871 $59.95 is a great deal as is the 1699 heavy milling vise $114.99. Can't go wrong with Enco  as FOMOGO stated or LMS end mills. Don't know about the HF end mills. I have trust in LMS that what I get from them will be good quality and perform as advertised.

Roy


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## Redbird (Feb 14, 2016)

My HF mini mill will be here tomorrow. Like you, I had dreams to. I did go on and get the spring and belt drive kit. I ordered a package from LMS for 229 That includes the clamps, vise, 5 collets, edge finder and end mills. Let the fun began.......


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## upTheHill (Feb 14, 2016)

I get my tooling from enco or LMS. get the belt kt from LMS worth every penny.
Also if you notice a lot of slop, backlash. I had to pull mine apar, there was a lot of paint overspray on the ways. works like a champ now.


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## BGHansen (Feb 14, 2016)

I'd also look at a test dial indicator and indicator holder for zeroing your vise to the table.  The ones below are $10 from CDCOtools.com.  Universal attaches to the spindle, axial one goes in a collet (1/4").  A Chinese indicator goes for another $20.  Congrats on the purchase!

Bruce


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## upTheHill (Feb 14, 2016)

I like the one that fits in the  collet


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## Charles Spencer (Feb 14, 2016)

I agree with both getting the LMS accessory kit:

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4491&category=879658189

and a couple of dial indicators.  These would do for a start:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=605-4070&PMPXNO=949084&PARTPG=INLMK32

Don't forget safety glasses.


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## TC0853 (Feb 14, 2016)

Dask62 said:


> After a 1.5 years of drooling to get my hands on a mini mill, I finally pulled the trigger and got one this week. During that 1.5 years, I researched adopting air springs, going to belt drive, taking apart 7 treadmills and ending up with numerous DC motors and control panels so I could use a set on the mill, changing out the screws to eliminate run out, eventually going full CNC and a ton of other modifications that I'm not gonna list. But, like the saying goes, you must first crawl before you walk. It can be a little over whelming trying to decide on the tooling to get started without braking the bank.
> So with that in mind, I have a few simple questions.
> 
> 1. R8 collets, what brand and size of set.
> ...





Dask62 said:


> After a 1.5 years of drooling to get my hands on a mini mill, I finally pulled the trigger and got one this week. During that 1.5 years, I researched adopting air springs, going to belt drive, taking apart 7 treadmills and ending up with numerous DC motors and control panels so I could use a set on the mill, changing out the screws to eliminate run out, eventually going full CNC and a ton of other modifications that I'm not gonna list. But, like the saying goes, you must first crawl before you walk. It can be a little over whelming trying to decide on the tooling to get started without braking the bank.
> So with that in mind, I have a few simple questions.
> 
> 1. R8 collets, what brand and size of set.
> ...


If you have any doubts about that drill press vise staying true under load put a piece of something in it then set up a dial indicator on the top edge of the sliding jaw and observe it as you tighten the vise. If it lifts up, there's your answer. If it's not too bad just make sure when you're milling in it to run in a direction that puts the load against the fixed jaw.


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## Dask62 (Feb 14, 2016)

Wow...thanks for all the quick replies. 
Ok...I plan on using one of the many gas springs that I pulled off the treadmills.
Since I have an assortment of treadmill motors, mc60 motor controlers and pots
I will try to make my own motor mount from some plans that I saw here (crossed fingers). The parts I want to purchase are the ones I can't try to construct or make. Just like I do with woodworking, I spend more time making jigs than woodworking.
I will try to post a link of my vise actually placed  on the mill for size reference...but will check out the ones at LMS.
And yes, I did notice the over spray also...I'm still in the cleaning process.
End mills, collets and dial indicator are my first purchase of course.
Again, thanks for all the info and will post pics of the progress.
BTW...I might just jump on the LMS package deal.

Dask


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## P T Schram (Feb 14, 2016)

Collets-get a couple to match the bits you get. No need to buy a huge set right now-although there might be an economy of scale to buying a set. As for brand, trust me, the collets will not be the limiting factor with regard to this mill.

Mill bits-I do the vast majority of my mill work with a 1/2" roughing mill bit. I would avoid HF mill bits and have had great success with Enco over the past 40 years, both in quality of tooling for what you pay for and customer service, although customer service has lagged since MSC bought them.

Vise? When I got my mill, I quick like a bunny got an Enco vise and have since realized I could have saved that money as I've found most of my work is done using toe clamps. Cheap sets from Enco have been fine for me and I buy them frequently as I use them for welding clamps, etc.

Something you didn't address is the need for 1-2-3 blocks-again, something it's hard to have too many of.


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## Dask62 (Feb 14, 2016)

[GALLERY=][/GALLERY]
Yost 5" vise. Ya...I think she's a little too big. Bought it a year ago not knowing how it would fit on the mill. Cost a little over $100.


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## upTheHill (Feb 14, 2016)

anther thing I remembered looking at the vise photo.
I made some 1" aluminum spacers to mount my mill on.  
this allows me to put a small pan underneath as a catch, or just get underneath it to more easily clean.


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## Bill W. (Feb 17, 2016)

I have the HF collets and end mills and so far they have worked just fine.  Several of the reviews I read on the end mills on the HF site was "for the price, they're a good set to start out with."   Welcome to the club... Bill


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## stupoty (Feb 17, 2016)

Dask62 said:


> View attachment 122192
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> ...



Looks like a nice hefty vice   Looks more upmarket than my record drill vice which looks almost designed to make one jaw rock up.

I've got an RF25 mill I use a 3" budget milling vice, everything else tends to get held with hold downs or made up clamping devices.  Work holding I sometimes think is one of the most challenging part of the whole thing. 

My vice is like the one shown on the LMS page http://littlemachineshop.com/info/vise_compare.php , second one down.  It's a little more expensive hear I think i paid £65 for it and their listing at $65, some one who is a member hear said theirs was a little lose on tolerance so they might vary between vendors.  I use mine without the rotary base & I found that to be much better as it's got a massive contact area on the base of the vice.  

It isn't a "hold down" vice like the kurt so you need to tap the work a bit with a plastic or brass hammer a bit.  I was planning to replace it with a better one at some point but haven't felt the need(which is always nice) I think if I bought another it would be different as apposed to just bigger or smaller.

The "*Precision Milling Vise*" listed on that page has the hold down feature which would probably be better to help avoid hitting the mill with hammers so much.

That one also has the one feature I wish I had on mine which is the end swappable jaws, so You can hold a very large piece of work by mounting the jaws on the vice differently.

The hardest thing I found with the small vice was getting a set of parallels that was short enough to be of any use with the vice.  They were these ones
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Precision...mm-/361153175016?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 

Humm I don't remember paying the same for the parallels as the vice but maybe I did.  Their quite handy for their range of sizes and I used (and still do somtimes) as squaring aids or for gauging hole number millimeters.  Their probably also available in imperial sizes.  They don't have any manufacturer info on them.

I've linked to the websites to show examples of vice style not "buy that one!" as I'm an ocean away so specific vendors are probably best recommended by more local users.

P.s. If the vice can be bolted down and the axis cranks arn't substantualy more difficult to turn with it on , then it should be fine to get started holding stuff.

Stuart


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## P T Schram (Feb 17, 2016)

Bill W. said:


> I have the HF collets and end mills and so far they have worked just fine.  Several of the reviews I read on the end mills on the HF site was "for the price, they're a good set to start out with."   Welcome to the club... Bill



I'm glad to hear this!

edit: Bill W. I just noticed your avatar. What a beautiful Chat Siamois! I've had three just like that and had a Shop Moggy who clearly had some Asian genetics in him. Shop cat until he somehow found his way inside and now he's a fat house cat who follows my wife and me around worse than the dogs!

Nice cat!


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## Dask62 (Feb 17, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies gentlemen.
Right now I'm like a depression era kid in a candy store with my face plastered on the candy display case. Drooling at all the posibilities within arms reach, yet my wallet says otherwise...aaahhhhhhhh.
Keep on adding items in carts at Enco, LMS, EBay, HF, amazon but can't afford to go crazy tight now. Baby steps...baby steps.
Maybe I should start a "Fund Me" page and have donations come in for this addiction we call milling.
Keep up the recommendations and once I start purchasing product and making upgrades I will post pics and videos.
Once again thanks for all the replies.

Dask


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## stupoty (Feb 17, 2016)

Dask62 said:


> Thanks for all the replies gentlemen.
> Right now I'm like a depression era kid in a candy store with my face plastered on the candy display case. Drooling at all the posibilities within arms reach, yet my wallet says otherwise...aaahhhhhhhh.
> Keep on adding items in carts at Enco, LMS, EBay, HF, amazon but can't afford to go crazy tight now. Baby steps...baby steps.
> Maybe I should start a "Fund Me" page and have donations come in for this addiction we call milling.
> ...




I think every one has the kid in a candy shop feeling 

Some of the tooling you need can be improvised to start with e.g. using steel square or rectangular stock as parallels.  T nuts are a good simple project to practice the basics, a bit of milling a bit of drilling and a bit of tapping (a little hack sawing) all without needing to hold mega tolerances.  Hold down clamps are another relatively simple project to do.   

Stuart


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## P T Schram (Feb 18, 2016)

Dask62 said:


> Thanks for all the replies gentlemen.
> Right now I'm like a depression era kid in a candy store with my face plastered on the candy display case. Drooling at all the posibilities within arms reach, yet my wallet says otherwise...aaahhhhhhhh.
> Keep on adding items in carts at Enco, LMS, EBay, HF, amazon but can't afford to go crazy tight now. Baby steps...baby steps.
> Maybe I should start a "Fund Me" page and have donations come in for this addiction we call milling.
> ...



For now, buy what you NEED to do the task at hand.

There will soon come a time where you'll look at the Enco flyer and realize you have most of what they offer each month-hint, it doesn't change much month-to-month.


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## Charles Spencer (Feb 18, 2016)

stupoty said:


> Some of the tooling you need can be improvised to start with e.g. using steel square or rectangular stock as parallels.  T nuts are a good simple project to practice the basics, a bit of milling a bit of drilling and a bit of tapping (a little hack sawing) all without needing to hold mega tolerances.  Hold down clamps are another relatively simple project to do.



An excellent point.  It seemed like the first year after I retired I spent my time organizing my shop and making parts for my machines.  You can start doing some work in steel to get comfortable.  Soon you will be looking at projects people post and saying, "Hmm, I could do that...".


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## TC0853 (Feb 19, 2016)

It sounds like you've got collets but as time goes on you'll see that inch/fractional collets have gaps in between them unless you have a set in 32nd's. What you can do, if, you don't mind seeing stuff In metrics, is start getting set up to use ER 40 collets and buy them in metric. Er 40 collets have a clamping range of 1mm or .039"so if you have a metric set from 3mm to 26mm you can clamp on to anything between .118" to 1.023" with no gaps. It works out to 24 collets instead of 29. You can get ER collet chucks in R8 or any of the Morse tapers you'll be using on your HFT mini. I've got ER 40 collet chucks in R8, MT 2, MT 3, and MT 4. That way I can chuck them up in my mill, lathe tailstock and headstock, and in my 6" rotary table. Just my opinion, we've all got them.


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## Dask62 (Feb 19, 2016)

First small purchase...enough to get me tinkering. Would of gotten a vise but I had a hard time deciding on size. Seems that options are better at LMS. 
They had a 30% of coupon at Enco and I had to hurry and put the order in.
Is a 3" Kurt style vise a good size for the mini mill? 
[GALLERY=]
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 [/GALLERY]


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## ferlum (Feb 19, 2016)

Toolmaker-type vises are the best physical fit on the mini-mill IMO. But using one when it's clamped to the table becomes a hassle real quick. It can be frustrating always making sure the pin is in the notches and it's not real efficient when clamping and re-clamping. Then if you accidentally back the screw out too far that franking pin falls off and gets trapped in the black hole between the vise and the table.

I did quite a bit of searching and found what I think is the best possible vise for the mini mill (pic below). The jaws are 3.5" wide and they open 4.9" -- that's a lot farther than any small Kurt-style vise I've seen. Unless you're making very small parts exclusively I can guarantee the time will come when you'll want to mill a piece bigger than the small Kurts will accommodate. Also, trust me when I say you cannot afford to lose any Y-axis travel on these machines, so a vise that overhangs the back of the table by much is no good. I got this one from a Canadian seller on eBay. I haven't seen them anywhere else. I think it's the perfect match for the mini-mill.


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## P T Schram (Feb 20, 2016)

Dask62 said:


> Would of gotten a vise but I had a hard time deciding on size.
> [GALLERY=]
> 
> 
> ...



Do you really need a vise? See  my comment. I have found the toe clamps (and Rite-Hite clamps) to have been a far better investment and to have much greater utility.


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