# 1236 Questions



## Big Rack

I've been looking for a lathe and have considered PM1127VF-LB, PM1228, Grizzly G4003G and the PM 1236 which seems to have the most bang for the buck. I have been wearing Matt at QMT out with emails so I thought I'd ask here.
I see the listings for the preferred package and understand what it comes with overall though I still have a couple of questions.
Does this lathe use change gears, if so how many are supplied?
Is the chuck guard included?
I understand the coolant pump is in the right leg, is it accessible once the lathe is mounted? Could the leg easily be reversed so the pump would be accessible from the front? ( I probably will seldom use it and don't like a stinking coolant tank)
Finally whatever I end up with (and it looks like the PM1236) I intend to mount a hour meter that will time when the E-stop is out anyone have an ideal of what terminal to pick up either 11o or a control voltage?  
Thanks for the replies.


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## Morgan RedHawk

Most changes are done with the gear box, but it does come with a few change gears..6, I think.  I have not used any of mine yet.  My lathe did include the chuck guard, though I did not specifically order it.  You can access the coolant pump from the rear as long as you dont have the lathe right up against a wall.  My splash guard is about 6 inches from the wall and I can get my coolant pump out no problem.  Not sure if you can reverse the leg.  At the very least, you will have to drill a hole on the other side for the foot break.  Not sure about the e-stop.  I'm pretty sure it handles 24vac control voltage for the contactors in the panel on the back of the machine.  I suppose you could wire in a 24v hour meter easily enough and maybe mount it right in the bezel as long as it is small enough.  There is not a lot of extra room in the casting.  Here is a pic of the back side of the control panel.  The e-stop is on the right.  Hope this helps!


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## coolidge

Having purchased a 12x36 (the G4003G) here's my advice, stop, step back and consider buying a larger lathe even if this means waiting a while longer to save up the additional money. It will be WAY less expensive to buy once vs upgrading in a year or two later. You can sink thousands more into a 12x36 buying a DRO, tooling, chucks that may or may not transfer to the larger lathe. I had people suggest to me to go bigger and didn't listen. Just saying.


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## Big Rack

Thanks for the replies as a hobbyist I'll probably never turn something outside it's envelope and being on a very limited budget this seems to be the best value.
Sometimes I think I should buy the mini stuff and put it in the basement but then I'd know I'd need larger.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Morgan, about your splash guard being about 6 inches from the wall, the PM1236 I'm waiting for will go into the right corner of the room. I planned on putting it 12" from the back wall and 12" from the side wall. Wondering if that would be enough for access. I think it would be but after reading the instructions for a Grizzly lathe, which said 30" from any wall, I get paranoid, ha.

Big Rack, I'm in a similar situation. Was looking at smaller lathes but didn't want to regret ending up with something I wished was larger, which is why I ordered the PM1236. I'll never use it to its full potential, and the 17" gap bed adds some insurance. I figure if I ever run into anything that won't fit, I'll find someone else to handle it... but I'm convinced that will never happen.


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## coolidge

Its not 'just' about the work cube when considering a larger lathe. Its also about rigidity, mass, triple spindle bearings vs double, quality of spindle bearings, motors hanging off the back of the smaller lathes introducing vibration in the spindle vs motors located in the base of a cast iron stand on larger lathes. You might want to research the lengths some 12x36 lathe owners go to isolate their motors. A larger lathe that is 2 to 3 times the mass of a 12x36 may improve surface finish, accuracy, repeatability, depending on the part or you may find some materials more difficult to work with on smaller lathes to get quality results. Then there is availability of tooling for a given size QCTP. You are likely looking at BXA for both the 12x36 and 14x40's so I don't think it matters until you hit a 16 inch swing which lets you move up to CXA and 3/4 to 1 inch tooling.

Important - my lathe is just for fun, it sits for days even weeks or months not used. That's why I bought a smaller 12x36 even when my brother was cautioning me to buy something larger. But here's the thing...even though I only use it infrequently and then on stuff that's just for fun my expectations of quality are high, I expect whatever I'm turning to come out nice, and that's where I think a made a bit of a mistake going for the smaller lathe. Generally larger lathes of 2 to 3 times the mass produce higher quality turnings. I'm fine with the 12x36 quality on some materials, brass for example, its not a mirror finish but its pretty nice. Aluminum is...okay, its shiny but you can see the effects of vibration and less rigidity in the surface finish. I will say this my G4003G is accurate to .0002 with the DRO I can definitely turn to a tight tolerance with repeatability.

Anyway food for thought.


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## 65Cobra427SC

It was very interesting to read you comments, even somewhat funny, because they were the same reasons why people suggested I move up to a 12x36 when I was initially looking at a 9x20. The bottom line is there is really no magic number when it comes to size, and the saying too much of a good thing can apply with lathes as well. The 12x36 is much larger than I need for 95% of what I'll use it for... a collet kit is on my buy now list. The other 5% is what convinced me to switch it even though the 9x20 could have easily handled them as well. I have a friend who has been using a 9x20 Enco for a couple years now to make all sorts of items, like small cannons that actually work and they look fantastic. He has machined a couple parts for me and again perfect. I really do appreciate the comments but there is really no need for me to go any larger... at least not again. But thank you very much.


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## Morgan RedHawk

I told yall wrong..my splash guard is 8 inches from the wall, not 6.  The splash guard sticks out behind the lathe a good bit further than the back of the stand's leg.  The coolant pump is easy enough to get out, but you do have to kinda work sideways.  The electrical panel on the back is pretty hard to get to, though you probably wouldn't need to but once in a blue moon.

Cobra, you would be able to access everything with a foot behind and in the back, but a foot on the side will limit the length of the stuff you can put through this spindle hole (if that matters).

I built a base for my machine out of 3/16" 2x2 square tubing and put leveling feet on it as many other members here have.  It gives the advantage of raising the machine up to a more comfortable height, and if I ever really really have to move the machine, I can borrow the pallet jack from work and slide it right under the base.  The base being that thick, however, creates a bit of a twist problem.  The machine is not heavy enough to flatten out a slightly twisted welded base.  You will probably have to use shims between the stand and the base to align the machine...no biggie, really.  I used feeler gauge leaves and it has worked out well.

Coolidge is right about bigger machine = better quality work.  More mass, less vibration, better finish, etc.  My decision to get the 1236 was based on size.  I have only a one car space in my garage for everything and the 1236 was the absolute biggest machine I could fit in there and still have room for a mill and some other stuff.  Seriously, it looks like the shop out of a WW2 diesel submarine...ok, maybe not that bad, but it is pretty small.  I have been happy with the 1236 and the 932.  I wouldn't mind a big ole 16" lathe and honkin big Wells Index, but it just ain't gonna happen for a few years.  If you can get bigger, do it, you wont be sorry...if not, I don't think you will be unhappy with the 1236.  A lot of members, like darkzero, produce some very nice stuff with theirs.  Check out some of his threads...oh, and he says one of those link belts helps a lot with vibration and finish.  I haven't tried one yet...any finish problems I have are due to lack of skill and inexperience (though I am getting better).

Here is a side view of the machine, so you can see for yourselves about the spacing:


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## Morgan RedHawk

65Cobra427SC said:


> It was very interesting to read you comments, even somewhat funny, because they were the same reasons why people suggested I move up to a 12x36 when I was initially looking at a 9x20.



Lol, yeah...that's how I ended up with a 1236 when I was looking at an 1127..you got to watch the guys around here...they'll do that...they did it to me...twice.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Funny, I must have posted my previous response to coolidge literally seconds before you.

I had seen something about the link belts before and considered them, but the added bonus of vibration and finish makes them a must buy, so thanks for bringing them up.

Although I do have room for a larger lathe, considering I was initially looking at a mini-lathe, then a 9x20, and ended up ordering the PM1236, I think I better stop there, especially considering I'm now looking at the PM932-PDF. Between both machines and the tooling the money is adding up fast. I should have also mentioned this to coolidge but I'm retired so money is more of a factor now than before.

About the foot of room on the right side... you're correct. Although the spindle hole goes all the way through the headstock assembly, it depends on what I'm machining as to which side I may need to feed it so I need enough room on both sides. Although I could probably do anything even if the lathe was up against that wall, this is going downstairs in the unused family room being converted into a workshop, so I have enough space to spare. I'll increase the space another foot or two which will be more than enough.

I only started looking at this forum today but I did happen to see your 2x2 square tubing base earlier... very impressive. I'm surprised about the twisting but I still like the idea and the shims aren't a problem. I may go ahead and do that as well but I'm curious, if you had to do it again, would you change anything? Mainly wondering if there is a way to help keep it from twisting. I have a friend who is a welder by trade so I would do all the cutting and fitting and have him do the welding.


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## Dman1114

If i did it again i don't think it would be a grizzly (g4003G)....   i think i would be getting a taiwan made lathe like the pm1340 or similar....

i do have to say since swapping the motor to 3 phase and adding a VFD , and a dro the lathe is much better.     no more vibrations and it produces very nice finishes.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Hi Dman

The G4003G ($3,295) is made in China but if it was made in Taiwan it would be another $1,000. Their comparison chart will show the country under the Other Specifications section. The PM1340 is ISO 9002 Certified but I'm almost positive it's also made in China (Base Price $3,999)... a little higher than the G4003G but due to the size. It's the PM1340GT, which is their high precision model, that's made in Taiwan (Base Price $4,999)... there is that extra cost.

I've found there is an unspoken rule with lathes... somewhat joking but true... if they don't state the country right up front, it's China. If it's Taiwan, they say Taiwan... because of the higher precision, and to justify the higher price of course.


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## 65Cobra427SC

BTW Dman, you're absolutely correct about the motor and VFD. I planned on doing the same with the PM1236 at some point. I just need to do some research first since I have no clue what to get, etc.


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## wrmiller

Morgan RedHawk said:


> Lol, yeah...that's how I ended up with a 1236 when I was looking at an 1127..you got to watch the guys around here...they'll do that...they did it to me...twice.



Not me. I say get what you want, can afford, have space for, etc.. Some guys want to make drive shafts for tractors, others, a balance staff for a clock or a model engine. Lots of different ways to enjoy this hobby.

I can personally say that the VFD/3-phase motor/linked v-belt combo works really great though.


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## Morgan RedHawk

The base was not my design, it is one I copied from this site.  Here is the thread I saw it in:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/buying-a-new-lathe.10217/page-3
Its about half way down and there is a drawing, too.

I like the base and if I had it to do over, I probably would not change the design.  I had mine welded by a buddy who is a professional welder and he did a good job at minimizing the twist.  I only had to use maybe .015 in shims.  I don't know if it is possible to get it "perfectly" flat.  Maybe a pipe fitter could.  My buddy welds stuff like construction equipment and migged my base.  He did a good job, I didn't even have to grind it.  If you do decide to build one, wait until you have the machine to drill the holes.  Sometimes they are not exactly in the same place as other people's machines.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks Morgan. Apparently the stands that come with most lathes leave a lot to be desired. I'm wondering how much an advantage it would be to just make a complete frame out of 2x2 square tubing or even something larger. They would have to be significantly more stable and should reduce vibration as well. Here is a really nice stand made from 2x3 rectangular tubing... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/44274-Another-Lathe-Stand

I was also at Harbor Freight the other day and saw a U.S. General Pro 72" 18 Drawer Glossy Red Industrial Roller Cabinet (#61656) 71" x 22" x 42.5" high. It was expensive but built like a tank. Weighs 528 lbs. but has a total weight capacity of 4602 lbs. I'm not sure but thinking that might be too high? I believe the chip pan for the PM1236 is 61"L X 18" Deep but not sure about the height of the stand... would you mind letting me know when you get a chance? Thanks.


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## markknx

Well I run a 10x22 and it turns most of my stuff pretty good. I do/will go up to a 1236/1440 once I get heeled and back to work. But unless the 1236 is a step down from the G0602 then I can not see why Coolidge can not get good results. If I listened to everyone I would not even have a lathe or mill as in order to get a heavy full CNC w/power steering and AC would have been out of my space and price range. I use mine for repairs, fun, custom parts and tools.
Mark


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## 65Cobra427SC

Great explanation Mark and I completely agree. Thanks


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## Duker

65Cobra427SC said:


> Thanks Morgan. Apparently the stands that come with most lathes leave a lot to be desired. I'm wondering how much an advantage it would be to just make a complete frame out of 2x2 square tubing or even something larger. They would have to be significantly more stable and should reduce vibration as well. Here is a really nice stand made from 2x3 rectangular tubing... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/44274-Another-Lathe-Stand
> 
> I was also at Harbor Freight the other day and saw a U.S. General Pro 72" 18 Drawer Glossy Red Industrial Roller Cabinet (#61656) 71" x 22" x 42.5" high. It was expensive but built like a tank. Weighs 528 lbs. but has a total weight capacity of 4602 lbs. I'm not sure but thinking that might be too high? I believe the chip pan for the PM1236 is 61"L X 18" Deep but not sure about the height of the stand... would you mind letting me know when you get a chance? Thanks.



 I have the HF 72" chest that I turned into a workbench/hutch. I think you can see it in my PM-935 thread sitting behind my mill. Without casters it is a comfortable height for a bench.


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## Muskt

I'm really enjoying this thread about "you really need a 16X60 in order to turn satisfactory hinge pins".
I owned, and used, a 9x20 for 10 years.  I was able to do some very good work with it--after quite a bit of TLC & several mods.  
I drive a 1/2 ton Dodge pickup.  It will not carry as much as a PB, or KW, but I don't expect it to.
While in Alaska, I carried a Remington rifle for all my hunting needs.  There were some who espoused that a PRE-64 Winchester was the only way to go--shoots straighter, kills deader, lasts longer, weighs less, etc ad nauseum.  The moose never knew the difference.
But I digress.
Buy the lathe (or any other tool) that you want, and that you can afford, and move on down the highway of life.  The remaining years go by too quickly to worry about what could have, should have, or might have been.

Jerry in LSD (Lower Slower Delaware)


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## Morgan RedHawk

The height of the stand by itself from the bottom to the floor of the chip pan is 26 inches.  The base I built adds about another 4".  Im 6 feet tall and the height of the bed is sufficient for me, though if it was a little higher, that would be fine.  

One thing to consider about using the tool box as a stand: the lip.  The chip pan's lip is 1" tall and the gear cover hangs over it and beyond about a half inch.  The cover will have to be able to clear the lip so you will be able to take it off and put it on when you need to.


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## coolidge

Muskt said:


> I'm really enjoying this thread about "you really need a 16X60 in order to turn satisfactory hinge pins".
> I owned, and used, a 9x20 for 10 years.  I was able to do some very good work with it--after quite a bit of TLC & several mods.
> I drive a 1/2 ton Dodge pickup.  It will not carry as much as a PB, or KW, but I don't expect it to.
> While in Alaska, I carried a Remington rifle for all my hunting needs.  There were some who espoused that a PRE-64 Winchester was the only way to go--shoots straighter, kills deader, lasts longer, weighs less, etc ad nauseum.  The moose never knew the difference.
> But I digress.
> Buy the lathe (or any other tool) that you want, and that you can afford, and move on down the highway of life.  The remaining years go by too quickly to worry about what could have, should have, or might have been.
> 
> Jerry in LSD (Lower Slower Delaware)



Nobody is saying that, maybe you should consider editing your post. Some are saying "since you asked this was my 12x36 experience for what its worth".


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## 65Cobra427SC

Wow Duker... you sure like big stuff, ha. Looking great. I'll be following that thread just to see the final results. The pics do show the HF 72" cabinet... didn't realize there was a hutch available for it. I would like to go that route for the looks, durability and storage but the cost is a bit much for me, even after the sale price and a 20% off coupon. I'll probably end up building something instead.

I agree Muskt. The friend with a 9x20 made a couple different size steel cannons with wood carriages and brass trim. He likes what he does, is very meticulous, takes his time and they look great. Same here... retired and plan to use my lathe for personal use only. I see it as being fun and expanding my interest in fabricating stuff for the house, custom car and two motorcycles. Can't wait!


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks Morgan. I'm only 5'7" so I need to consider that anything I do with the stand could make it too high for me. Might be better off just building a stand out of square or rectangular tubing. This way I can keep everything at the same height. I'll also go take a look at that Harbor Freight tool chest.


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## coolidge

65Cobra427SC said:


> Thanks Morgan. I'm only 5'7" so I need to consider that anything I do with the stand could make it too high for me. Might be better off just building a stand out of square or rectangular tubing. This way I can keep everything at the same height. I'll also go take a look at that Harbor Freight tool chest.



I'm the same height and the G4003G is 4 inches too tall for me. Tip Grizzly lists the floor to lathe centerline height for their lathes in the specification PDF files on their web site if you wanted to get a sample of lathe floor to centerline heights. The G4003G is 46 inches plus 2 inches for the leveling pads puts it at 48. For me 44 would be a perfect height. I was all gung-ho  to build my own stand then someone just suggested a common sense alternative, build a raised platform to stand on. If your lathe doesn't come with a stand I did spend a lot of time designing various custom stands for mine. The problem I ran into with one solid stand was how to weld that up without twist, my brother suggested there was some logic in the factory stand design of two separate stands one for the head stock and one for the tailstock. A much smaller area to fabricate flat and any twist could be dialed out with the leveling pads. Just throwing out some ideas for you.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Excellent coolidge... never thought of that. I'll do some research in the morning and give it more thought. Thanks.


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## Big Rack

Thanks for all the replies guys a couple of thoughts this is going in a garage not a workshop while it doesn't see a car it get used for a bunch of stuff. Size wise I think it will cover my needs, I will admit that the 30 x 96 lathe at work did run smoothly but it just wasn't handy to use.
The real reason is something maybe being overlooked which is very important to me that is simply the most return or value for the buck and this kinda seems to look like it. It's sure not perfect but pretty dang gone handy.
As for the big lathe I mentioned (It had been converted to CNC) we used to knurl aluminum extrusions with a star inner shape, look at the long grab bar at the rear of a firetuck all of about 1.5 OD.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Curious, is the rear splash guard large enough or are chips still going to fly past it?

I'm only thinking in terms of the wall behind the lathe and I plan to have 12" (maybe 15") of space between the two. Thanks.


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## coolidge

Cobra my G4003G splash guard contains chips extremely well, rarely will any chips find their way behind the lathe. The front is another matter. Now chuck grease, WD40, coolant or other variants of cutting oil is not as well contained and will go flying upward and rearward off the chuck over the splash guard. If you are putting the lathe up against a back wall you may want to fashion a half cover up and forward over that chuck area.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks much coolidge. I will definitely follow your advice.


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## mksj

You might consider a Lexan splash guard. It significantly curs down on the oil/grease flying everywhere, and up/behind the lathe. When Enco has there 20% off and free shipping, they are very reasonable.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks for posting the picture... looks much nicer than the other one I saw. I'll definitely keep an eye on that part and the discount.


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## 65Cobra427SC

mksj, can you tell me which size you purchased (I'm guessing the 12-16 with 8" center height?) and if that size is what you would get again? Also wondered if it was worth getting the loc-line adjustable arm magnetic shield for the mill. Thanks.


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## mksj

Yes, it is a the FLexbar 12-16" version, 8" center, Enco part number 505-4017. I purchase mine last year when it went on sale in one of their fliers paid $127. So it pays to get on their mailing list and email sale notices, but you really need to wait until the stars line up and the price is right. The list price is too expensive, let alone MSC overinflated prices. It is cheaper from the company direct if you needed it sooner, might also consider a longer support bar (13509) if you use coolant and do long work away from the chuck (I am fine with the standard unit). I find there is plenty of working room under the shield, flips up easily and I like the added protection between the spinning chuck and my face (and not getting sprayed with oil). I relocated my light so it does not interfere.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=505-4017
http://www.flexbar.com/shop/pc/LATHEGUARD-MEDIUM-p3525.htm

The adjustable shield for the mill is probably a good idea depending on your set-up. I almost purchased that one for my mill, but I have some polycarbonate sheet and I am going to make my one. I will use neodymium magnets in the base to hold it to the vise/table, and have it flip forward with some friction dampers. Never use acrylic for a shield, it will shatter and is very weak.
Mark


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## Morgan RedHawk

mksj said:


> Never use acrylic for a shield, it will shatter and is very weak.



That's good to know.  I have been thinking of making a chip guard for my mill.  Man, that thing makes a mess!


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks for the details... and I agree, when I saw the price I was shocked. I just changed my preferences to receive their mailings again.


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## 65Cobra427SC

coolidge said:


> Cobra my G4003G splash guard contains chips extremely well, rarely will any chips find their way behind the lathe. The front is another matter.



About how far will the chips find their way in front of the lathe? I'm trying to figure out where that line is going to be. If it's 3 feet from the front of the lathe... which would be about 2 feet behind me...  then that's where I'll start laying floor tiles. That will be the "non-chip" area, ha.


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## coolidge

It really depends on the material you are turning, depth of cut, tooling, etc. I mostly get a big hairball of long curly spring like strings from aluminum and steel. Aluminum strings can be a few feet in length, steel tends to be sub inch to a few inches those probably travel the farthest. Brass and cast iron create tiny chips that don't go far at all. Spindle speed also a factor of course. I would say you are fine with 3 feet out front with the occasional escapee flinging itself outside that zone. The lathe is well behaved, its the mill that will fling chips in a 10 foot radius and make a big mess.

That said do consider safety, I would not want to be boxed into a small area without an escape route if something goes horribly wrong on a lathe.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Wow, had no idea the mill would make that much more of a mess. Thanks for the info... and warning.


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## coolidge

Yeah, a face mill in particular will make a mess in your shop.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Can anyone tell me what amp circuit breaker I need for the lathe? I'm going to run a dedicated line so I want to make sure I use the proper sized wire and breaker.

BTW coolidge, I watched a couple YouTube videos where they used a face mill and what a mess... in all directions. Looks like I need dedicated clothing for the shop as well.


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## JimDawson

Look at the motor current, then size the breaker for about 1.5 times that that.  But not less than 20 amps and #12 wire.  If you use a 30 amp breaker then #10 wire.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Sorry, I don't have the lathe yet and the website doesn't show that info for any of his lathes.


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## coolidge

Cobra my G4003G has a 2hp motor and is quite happy on a 220vac 20 amp circuit breaker. I think a 30 amp circuit is overkill for a 2hp lathe.

That said you should check the motor specs when it arrives and allow for some buffer as recommended above. If the motor is drawing 19 amps you don't want a 20 amp breaker, 15 to 16 amps would be okay, 17 amps would be pushing it.

Also not all 2hp motors are really 2hp, manufactures have been known to exaggerate the hp rating of their motors, shocker. So a particular motor may be okay on a smaller circuit. For example one manufacture sells a 5hp lathe and a 4hp lathe, yet the 5hp motor is rated as drawling far less amps than the 4hp motor, something smells fishy! lol


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## coolidge

65Cobra427SC said:


> Can anyone tell me what amp circuit breaker I need for the lathe? I'm going to run a dedicated line so I want to make sure I use the proper sized wire and breaker.
> 
> BTW coolidge, I watched a couple YouTube videos where they used a face mill and what a mess... in all directions. Looks like I need dedicated clothing for the shop as well.



A shower curtain makes for a cheap but effective way of containing the chip mess at the sides and back of the mill. Yet it slides out of the way on a curtain rod. As for clothing you may know this already but don't go near either a lathe or mill with long sleeves, gloves, or loose clothing that's a good way to have your fingers ripped off or for your machine to maim or kill you in a seriously painful manner.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks again coolidge for the info... and good advice on the clothing. Matt also sent me an email to let me know to use a 20 amp circuit breaker. I already bought 10/3 wire thinking it would require 30 amp but I never have a problem using larger wire so I'm still good. Will run the wire in the morning... a fairly long run so I'll be at it most of the day.


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## John Hasler

65Cobra427SC said:


> Thanks again coolidge for the info... and good advice on the clothing. Matt also sent me an email to let me know to use a 20 amp circuit breaker. I already bought 10/3 wire thinking it would require 30 amp but I never have a problem using larger wire so I'm still good. Will run the wire in the morning... a fairly long run so I'll be at it most of the day.


If it's a long run you're better off with #10 anyway.


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## coolidge

65Cobra427SC said:


> Thanks again coolidge for the info... and good advice on the clothing. Matt also sent me an email to let me know to use a 20 amp circuit breaker. I already bought 10/3 wire thinking it would require 30 amp but I never have a problem using larger wire so I'm still good. Will run the wire in the morning... a fairly long run so I'll be at it most of the day.



Cobra if you are using rubber flex cord and plug be advised 10 gauge stranded flex cord wire tends to not fit 20 amp plugs its too large, you can kind of cram it into the plug but its not idea. You may need to go 12 gauge wire or just go a 30 amp circuit, wire, and twist lock plug. If you think you might end up with a 3hp mill then you will be all set with a 30 amp circuit for use with both the lathe and mill.

Allow me to take this opportunity to express hatred of buying electrical components and wiring, its expensive and frequently annoying!!


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## 65Cobra427SC

Actually when I purchased the 10/3 wire for the long run, I had also purchased the  10/3 stranded flex cord and the 30 amp plugs and outlets so the entire run will be 30 amp... only with a 20 amp circuit breaker. And you just had to go and mention a 3hp motor didn't you?

I completely agree with buying electrical components. I also bought the same flex cord and plug for my air compressor and was ready to flip when I plugged it in. I need to take a picture for this one so I'll do another post.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Posting a picture of the stranded flex cord and twist lock plug for the air compressor. The compressor is a couple feet to the left of the outlet. I don't care for the way the plug points away from the air compressor so the cord has to double back to the left. The plug is adjustable but in only 1 of 4 positions, in 90 degree increments. Of course I originally installed it so the plug would point towards the air compressor, but what happens is the flex cord pushes against the plug and causes it to unlock so I had change it to the way it is now. When I see stuff like this, I wonder what they were thinking, ha.


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## JimDawson

You just have to mount the box at a 45 degree angle


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## coolidge

JimDawson said:


> You just have to mount the box at a 45 degree angle



Doh!! lol


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## coolidge

65Cobra427SC said:


> Posting a picture of the stranded flex cord and twist lock plug for the air compressor. The compressor is a couple feet to the left of the outlet. I don't care for the way the plug points away from the air compressor so the cord has to double back to the left. The plug is adjustable but in only 1 of 4 positions, in 90 degree increments. Of course I originally installed it so the plug would point towards the air compressor, but what happens is the flex cord pushes against the plug and causes it to unlock so I had change it to the way it is now. When I see stuff like this, I wonder what they were thinking, ha.



A perfect example of how annoying electrical can be, and yet anything plumbing related surpasses electrical 10x in the annoying category.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Great idea Jim. LOL!


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## 65Cobra427SC

Dumb question but I just need to make sure. The PM website says the distance between centers is 36" which is the longest piece it will accept between the chuck and the tailstock. If I needed to machine a 1" OD x 4' steel shaft, and I didn't have enough room to feed it into the spindle bore from the left, I could still remove the tailstock and feed it from the right. Correct?


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## wrmiller

You could do that. FYI: 'Between Centers' typically is measured from a center mounted in the spindle (no chuck mounted) to a center mounted in the tailstock. A chuck will eat up some of that distance.


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## coolidge

What Bill said plus check the actual carriage travel vs distance between centers because some lathes are several inches less. The carriage travel on my 12x36 lathe is 30.5 inches.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Good info... thanks. I expected the specs would be somewhat misleading but that still boils down to, I will probably never need to feed anything from the left side of the machine. And on the rare occasion I did have to, I could just remove the tailstock and feed it from the right.

Curious how difficult is it to remove the tailstock and roughly how long would it take?


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## JimDawson

65Cobra427SC said:


> Curious how difficult is it to remove the tailstock and roughly how long would it take?



About 3 seconds, it just slides off the end of the ways.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Heck, that's even better. Thanks.


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## darkzero

Well a little longer than 3 sec the first time. You have to loosen a nut to remove a SHCS in order to slide the tailstock off the bed. You may choose to leave the SHCS off if you need to remove the tailstock often. 

I personally would not leave the SHCS off, it's purpose is a saftey so you don't go sliding the tailstock off the bed by accident when sliding it back. You don't want your tailstock hitting the floor by accident.

Also when you remove the tailstock, take care not to spin the hold down clamp when you set it down or pick it back up. Not a big deal if you do but you have to adjust it to get the handle to set in the position you want when locked up if you care.

My PM1236 has 30.23" carriage travel with the backsplash installed. But that's just a total travel & doesn't necessarily mean total useable. Useable travel depends on what is mounted on your spindle, ie. type of chuck, faceplate, dogplate, etc. As said, American market lathes are sized by swing size & distance between centers.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks for the clarification darkzero. I'll make sure the SHCS goes back on the machine each time since removing the tailstock will be a rare occurrence.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Matt is expecting another shipment of PM1236 lathes in the next week. Mine is in this batch so I'm happy I won't be moving it from the garage to the workshop in the midst of winter. I'm trying to finalize a couple things at this point...

I want to make a base for the cabinet to rest on using 2x2 x 3/16" square tubing for some rigidity and to widen the front to rear footprint. But I'm leaning towards eliminating the long tubes that connect the left and right sides so they are not tied together when leveling. I'm okay with mounting four levelers on each side, but wondering overall if there is any disadvantage doing it this way?

I had ordered the PM1236 first since I knew which lathe I wanted. Later I decided on the PM932 which he happen to have available at that time so I've since received it and moved it into my workshop. A couple weeks ago Matt said my PM1236 wouldn't be too much longer (it was in the second batch) and mentioned it was the one without a DRO. Don't ask me where my head was when I ordered the 1236 but he's right... no DRO. Which is nuts considering my PM932 has the Easson 3 Axis ES-12 DRO with the graphical display. Duh!

So now I'm trying to decide on how to handle the DRO for the lathe. In addition to the 2-axis ES8A he also lists the 3-axis ES12 so it would be nice for both machines to have a graphical display, but there were a couple items I casually read some time back which I could use some feedback on. Something about using a 3-axis DRO on a 2-axis lathe means working with radius instead of diameter? And is there any way to make use of the 3rd axis on this machine? Yeah, I'm trying to justify.

Thanks


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## Muskt

I have a 12x36 on a homemade base.  I used only one connecting tube with the thought about leveling and figured it would act somewhat like a torsion bar.  I actually haven't attempted to twist it yet--just leveled it.  Below is a pic of the base.  Here is a thought for you.  Mine is also 2 inch tube.  I am 5 foot 8, and find it pretty uncomfortable to look over the tool post to see what I'm doing when up close to the chuck.  I either have to get on my toes or look around from the TS end.  I plan to lower the adjusters all the way down (about 1/2 inch), & possible get some sort of platform to stand on.
	

		
			
		

		
	






PS--disregard the extra 2 nuts on the left + the 2 holes--call it a senior moment.

Hope this helps a bit.

Jerry in Delaware


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks Jerry. I did see your base a while back... that was more work than making one with two connectors. I seriously considered it as well but I don't know enough to say where it would fall between using a base with two connectors vs. zero connectors. I even considered using a thinner wall tube for the connector but didn't want to chance it without using (4) levelers on each side. Finally I just figured if I'm going to install the extra levelers, I might as well just not use a connector at all. So here I am. You have senior moments... I have long drawn out conversations with myself, make a decision, but then it occurs to me that I don't know crap.


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## mksj

65Cobra427SC said:


> So now I'm trying to decide on how to handle the DRO for the lathe. In addition to the 2-axis ES8A he also lists the 3-axis ES12 so it would be nice for both machines to have a graphical display, but there were a couple items I casually read some time back which I could use some feedback on. Something about using a 3-axis DRO on a 2-axis lathe means working with radius instead of diameter?



They both do the same functions, so no difference between the models other than ES12 has a slightly different interface and graphical display (they both do radius and diameter in the lathe setting for the "X" axis). I had ordered my lathe with the ES12, as I prefer the graphical display and thought it was a 3 axis display and I could use the 3rd axis with either the tailstock or a tool post magnetic scale. Not sure how the 3rd "Z" axis would interface/display  when the DRO is set for lathe functions. Ends up the version sent from Matt with the lathe is only 2 axis. I installed an Igaging Absolute on the tailstock, which worked out very well and is quite a bit cheaper. I believe the price difference between the 2 models is around $100, a 3rd axis would be at least another $100 plus the cost of another scale. Not worth it.  I can't imagine turning without a DRO, would be much more time consuming/mistakes, and between my memory and my vision digital is much easier.

One of the quirks on the ES-12, is that the travel speed indicated of an axis is gibberish when feeding (or stationary). Otherwise it is very nice and easy to use.
Mark


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## 65Cobra427SC

mksj said:


> Ends up the version sent from Matt with the lathe is only 2 axis.



Interesting. I just checked the website and you're correct. For the PM932 it says "Easson 3 Axis ES-12 DRO:  $849.00 + $149 Installation". For the PM1236 it says "Easson ES-12 DRO Graphic Display Installed $899.00". So there is a $100 price difference which I never noticed, and the lathe didn't specify the number of axis, so I assumed wrong.

My mill came with the 3 Axis ES-8 but even before I installed the lathe, I was sorry I didn't get the ES-12. I talked to Matt and he said all I needed to do was swap the display. So I exchanged the display and paid him the price difference. But it didn't even occur to me then I ordered the lathe without a DRO.

Thanks for posting a picture of your Absolute DRO... looks nice. So at this point I could do the same, or see if there is a 3-Axis DRO with a graphic display that specifically functions with a lathe. Will do some reading in the morning. Thanks for the input.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Found what I saw before about radius vs. diameter. It was on another site... just a general post about a DRO for a lathe where someone said...
2 axis DRO is enough on a lathe.
Pick a DRO designed for a lathe so you can read diameter change rather than radius.
Add a dial indicator to your quill and don't fuss with the compound.


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## 65Cobra427SC

mksj said:


> I installed an Igaging Absolute on the tailstock, which worked out very well and is quite a bit cheaper.



I searched online earlier today and you were spot on. Lots of others added a separate gauge to their tailstock, and $2k for a dedicated 3 Axis DRO for my lathe isn't something I'm willing to do. Especially considering it will take me a while to learn the ES12 as it is, so using two different DRO's isn't for me. Guess I'll contact Matt and have him add the 2 Axis ES12 to my lathe.

Thanks for the help.


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## Swerdk

I was suppose to be in the same second batch of 1236's. I opted for the last available 1236 with DRO. so glad i did. I was weary from waiting for second batch.  As a newbie it takes so much frustration out of my learning curve.   


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## 65Cobra427SC

Matt didn't have an ES12 DRO display in stock but it uses the same scales and cables as the ES8 so everything will be installed except for the display screen. I can live without it for a few weeks since I'll be learning/playing during that time. Besides I could always move the one from the mill over to the lathe in a pinch if I have an urgent need for it.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Couple questions so I can be ready when I get my 1236...

How many v-belts are used on this lathe and what size/length link belt(s) would I need to buy? What brand link belts are best?

Does the chip tray have a drain? Even if it does, has anyone ever modified their chip tray to add a better drain and plumbing?

Thanks


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## mksj

I have a different machine, but have been using the Gates Tri-Power notched belts, anything is an improvement over the stock belts. Definitely smoother running with less vibration, and I do not have bits of rubber flying all over the place.  Sizing can vary by belt/brand. Linked belts work better than stock, but may be more expensive for two belts. I have seen others just use a singly belt on their 1236 machines and they have worked fine. The PM1340 also uses a single belt.
http://www.royalsupply.com/store/pc/BX-Tri-Power-Belts-c1095.htm
http://www.harborfreight.com/vibration-free-link-belt-43771.html


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks for the info. It's always difficult to figure out what works best but there's no question the stock belts have to go.

Sounds like the 1236 comes with two belts but can work with one larger belt so they must be the same width. Not sure the number of belts matters to me, unless using one will further reduce vibration. If not, then I would prefer to stick with two belts. Cost isn't a factor considering their advantage. I just don't know what width/lengths to buy.

I typically buy Gates belts for all my vehicles so I may do the same with their link belts. But I avoid HF for lots of reasons even though they are only 10 minutes away.

Thanks


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## mksj

Usually less vibration with one belt vs. multiple, unless they are matched. Just going off of problems I have read with the G4003G and vibration. Also changing pulley groves for a different speed range is easier, although I do not see any easy way to do it on the PM1236 as one usually needs to release the tension on the belts to switch pulley groves. Nice thing about a VFD is you can squeeze a bit more speed range. I use a a 90 Hz top end, so I get 1.5 x 800 RPM, which puts me up to 1200RPM in my low speed range.


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## 65Cobra427SC

I found out about the benefits of a VFD only recently but it's something I've been seriously considering. Think I'll search later tonight or tomorrow and see what's involved. It would be nice if I can find a thread about adding one to the PM1236. Thanks for the info.


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## mksj

PM me for additional info, I occasionally do VFD builds for others, but also help others with the information. I just sent a whole bunch of information to another forum individual who is also wants to convert  his PM1236. Usually Matt sells the Hitachi WJ200 VFD and the Leeson/Marathon Metric 3 phase motor with the lathe. The difference going to 3 phase and a VFD  is not subtle.  Attached is an older circuit diagram. The build is specific to the machine, because you are using the power supply in the VFD (limited to 100mA at 24VDC for the WJ200, you must use an LED lamp as a power indicator). I have switched all my VFD builds to using an external power supply. I do not recommend the cheap VFD's sold on eBay from China, a bit like Pandora's box.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm-1236-vfd-conversion.11649/
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=96363


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## 65Cobra427SC

There have been a number of posts (me included) in this thread about homemade bases for the PM1236 but I took a slightly different route. One of the times I was at QMT/PM, Matt and I discussed the various bases and I mentioned how the base I made for the PM932 had a slight twist from welding, although it only needed one 0.010" shim to fix. At that point, Matt made a suggestion I didn't think of, which is what I went with since it didn't involve any welding. One attachment shows a picture of my 1236 using four separate 2x2 sections of steel tubing. No welding... no chance of twist from heat. He also felt it could help when adjusting the bed of the lathe by not having them tied together. The other is just for reference, showing drawings of the five possible base patterns I was looking at.


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## Swerdk

I have a problem--- your shop is to clean  I do like the base though


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## Swerdk

Serious question though what is the size of the aluminum that you used for your mounts on the bottom it looks like 3 inch but is it 5 inch?


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## 65Cobra427SC

To be honest I cleaned that area before I took the picture... although I've yet to do anything with the lathe that would create much of a mess. Too many projects going on in the house at the same time.

They're actually 4"... cut from a 1" thick aluminum plate... resting on 6" square anti-vibration pads. And before anyone says anything... no, I did not purchase those particular pads because they match the black and blue on the lathe (and mill). But they DO look good.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Time for some serious info. I watched several videos on how to perform a tailstock alignment and have a 12" alignment tool on order so I'm good there. But what else needs done on a lathe?

I tried to find something that showed which areas need leveled/aligned... and what order to perform them... but I keep striking out. Even a list would get me started. It could be as simple as I'm not using the correct terms. Thanks.


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## Muskt

I like your solution; however, how about the height?
Mine is somewhere around 4 inches and at 5' 8", I find that a bit too high--trouble seeing around the QCTP.
Not intended as a criticism--more just a question.

Jerry in Delaware


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## brav65

65Cobra427SC said:


> Time for some serious info. I watched several videos on how to perform a tailstock alignment and have a 12" alignment tool on order so I'm good there. But what else needs done on a lathe?
> 
> I tried to find something that showed which areas need leveled/aligned... and what order to perform them... but I keep striking out. Even a list would get me started. It could be as simple as I'm not using the correct terms. Thanks.



Do a search for Rollie's Dad's Method


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## 65Cobra427SC

Jerry... at this point I haven't used it to actually make anything so take the following with a grain of salt.

The levelers are adjusted so the height of the cabinet is on the lower side but I didn't want to make it any lower in case I had to make any further adjustments later. I'm 5'7" and the center of the chuck is about  4' 1" up from the floor... which is right below my chest. Maybe mark that height on a wall, or wherever, to see what you think. Personally I think it's fine. It looks like it will let me sit on a stool, but even if I stand I can see what I'm doing without hunching over all the time.

02/24/2016: Now that I've done more with the 1236, I take back what I said above. The lathe IS too high so I plan to build a large platform out of wood to stand on. I needed to eventually put something over the hard concrete floor anyway and now it will need to add some height as well. Sorry if I mislead anyone.


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## 65Cobra427SC

brav65 said:


> Do a search for Rollie's Dad's Method



Thanks but I'm already set to align the tailstock once the alignment tool arrives later this week. But I'm under the impression I also need to do something like align the bed... and/or the rails... ? That's why I'm looking for a list of what all needs done, and the correct order? I want to make sure I've made all the adjustments I need before I start putting the lathe to work. Thanks.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Okay, I finally picked up a tool cabinet for the workshop and have most everything put away. But I have two pieces that I'm not sure what their for. Any help?


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## brav65

65Cobra427SC said:


> Thanks but I'm already set to align the tailstock once the alignment tool arrives later this week. But I'm under the impression I also need to do something like align the bed... and/or the rails... ? That's why I'm looking for a list of what all needs done, and the correct order? I want to make sure I've made all the adjustments I need before I start putting the lathe to work. Thanks.



This is the process to align your headstock to the lathe bed "Rollie's Dad's Method"


*Rollie's Dad's Method of Lathe Alignment*
http://www.John-Wasser.com/NEMES/RDMLatheAlignment.html
Copyright 1997 by New England Model Engineering Society
*What you need*
A round bar
The bar length should be about 1/3 to 2/3 the bed length.
The bar should be of one diameter along most or all of its length. If it is not you will need a
micrometer to accurately measure its diameters.
The bar does not have to be completely straight.
Since Rollie has a car repair shop, he uses the shafts from junked shocks and struts.
A dial indicator
The end of the measuring rod should be flat.
A means of mounting the indicator on the cross-slide at lathe center height.
To do a vertical alignment: A means to mount the indicator on the cross slide so it is directly
above (or below) the lathe axis.
A chuck of any type to hold the bar.
Runout in the chuck is not a problem (for the same reason that a slight bend in the bar is not a
problem).
*What you DON'T need*
A tailstock, perfectly straight bar, a collet or precision chuck or any tool bits.
*Applying the method* (Horizontal Alignment)
1. Put the bar in the chuck.
2. Mount the dial indicator on the cross-slide at the center height of the lathe.
3. Pull the indicator's measuring rod back by hand (to avoid damage to the indicator) and move the
carrige so the indicator is near the chuck end.
4. Release the indicator rod and, turning the lathe by hand, note the highest and lowest measurements on
the indicator.
5. Average the high an low readings (add together and divide by two) to get the "near end average
distance". If you suspect the bar of not being a single diameter along its length, measure the diameter
and subtract half the diameter from the average to get a corrected "near end average distance"
6. Pull the indicator's measuring rod back by hand to clear any irregularities and move the carrige to the
end of the bar away from the chuck.
7. Release the indicator rod and again, turning the lathe by hand, note the highest and lowest
measurements on the indicator.
8. Average the new high an low readings (add together and divide by two) to get the "far end average
distance". If you suspect the bar of not being a single diameter along its length, measure the diameter
and subtract half the diameter from the average to get a corrected "far end average distance".
9. The difference between the "near end average distance" and "far end average distance" is a
measure of the misalignment of the spindle axis with the ways.
10. To correct the problem, put a piece of paper under the near-side foot at the headstock end of the lathe
(the feet at the tailstock end are sometimes pivoted to act as a single foot). Re-do the measurements
starting at step 3. If the alignment gets better, add more sheets of paper until the alignment is perfect. If
the alignment gets worse, put the paper under the far-side foot at the head end until alignment is
achieved.
*Applying the method *(Vertical Alignment)
1. Put the bar in the chuck.
2. Mount the dial indicator on the carridge so that it is directly above the center line of the spindle.
3. Pull the indicator's measuring rod back by hand (to avoid damage to the indicator) and move the
carrige so the indicator is near the chuck end.
4. Release the indicator rod and, turning the lathe by hand, note the highest and lowest measurements on
the indicator.
5. Average the high an low readings (add together and divide by two) to get the "near end average
distance". If you suspect the bar of not being a single diameter along its length, measure the diameter
and subtract half the diameter from the average to get a corrected "near end average distance".
6. Pull the indicator's measuring rod back by hand to clear any irregularities and move the carrige to the
end of the bar away from the chuck.
7. Release the indicator rod and again, turning the lathe by hand, note the highest and lowest
measurements on the indicator.
8. Average the new high an low readings (add together and divide by two) to get the "far end average
distance". If you suspect the bar of not being a single diameter along its length, measure the diameter
and subtract half the diameter from the average to get a corrected "far end average distance".
9. The difference between the "near end average distance" and "far end average distance" is a
measure of the misalignment of the spindle axis with the ways.
10. To correct the problem, put a piece of paper under both feet at the tailstock end of the lathe. Re-do the
measurements starting at step 3. If the alignment gets better, add more sheets of paper until the
alignment is perfect. If the alignment gets worse, put the paper under both feet at the headstock end until
alignment is achieved.
*Why This Method Works*
The bar acts as a circular cam. With a perfectly straight bar in a perfect chuck the bar is concentric with the
spindle axis. Since we don't live in a perfect world there is almost always a slight offset between the center
of the bar and the spindle axis. This offset varies from place to place along the bar due to slight bends
and/or imperfect mounting.
At any place you pick along the bar the center of the "cam" is some unknown distance from the spindle axis.
We'll call this unknown distance 'X'. As you turn the spindle axis the high measurement will be "Bar_radius
+ X" and the low measurement will be "Bar_radius - X". Their average will be:
((Bar_radius + X) + (Bar_radius - X)) / 2 =
((Bar_radius + Bar_radius) + (X - X)) / 2 =
(2 * Bar_radius) / 2 =
Bar_radius
As you can see, the value and direction of the deviation have no influence on the final result. That is why it
doesn't mater if the chuck is accurate or the bar has one or more slight bends.
If the bar is not the same diameter at both places we need to measure the diameters and adjust the readings.
Averaging the high and low readings gives us a reading for the local bar radius. We convert that to a reading
for the bar center by measuring the bar diameter and subtracting half the diameter (a.k.a. The Radius).
*Common Error*
Some people will find the near-end average distance, turn the lathe till it reads that distance and then move
the carridge down the ways with that mistaken assumption that the reading shouldn't change. That method
will only work if your bar is known to be perfectly straight and the chuck is known to hold the bar in
perfect alignment with the spindle axis. Do not confuse that method with this one.
I learned all this from a fellow member of the New England Model Engineering Society. Join us the first
Thursday of every month at the Charles River Museum of Industry in Waltham, Mass.


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## davidpbest

I'm glad we've moved on to better methods now.


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## Muskt

The two pieces are:

Left side===MT5 to MT?  adapter.  I have forgotten what the inner MT size is, but I think it is MT3.  The inside of the spindle is MT5--the adapter allows something like a MT3 dead center to be used.

Right side===R8 arbor.  Normally used on milling machines.  I do not recall my 12x36 coming with one.  They are extremely common on mills.

Jerry in Delaware


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## 65Cobra427SC

brav65 said:


> This is the process to align your headstock to the lathe bed "Rollie's Dad's Method"



Well this is embarrassing. Thanks brav65 but you could have just said something like "Hey dumb a**, if you would have read the entire process, you would have found out it's for aligning the 'lathe' and not the tailstock." Sorry about that.


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## coolidge

That R8 arbor is typically used with a face mill or shell mill.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks Jerry. You're correct about both pieces. The R8 arbor has the slot so it's for the milling machine, which helped me figure out what it's used for... shell mills and face mills if I'm correct. The adapter threw me for a loop but now it makes complete sense. If I remove the chuck, it fits the inside of the spindle. But then I noticed if the jaws of the chuck are open, it seems to fit the center of the chuck. So does that mean I can use it in either location?

Thanks Coolidge... that confirms what I suspected. I typed my message a while ago, then the phone rang before I clicked send... and I can't do two things at once, ha.


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## joshua43214

Lathe alignment is one of those things that gets tossed around and there are lots of opinions as to the best way to accomplish it.

So I will toss my opinion into the mix.
You can buy expensive test bars, but they are a waste of money imo. The result will only be as good as the test bar, and good ones are freakishly expensive. For simple alignment, they are expensive toys. I can see their use in a large shop where someone periodically checks the machines, or when a machine needs to be certified. Likewise, they are invaluable to a rebuilder.

For aligning the headstock, I prefer to make test cuts on a piece of stock. I use a 3" aluminum tube about 10" long in the 4jaw chuck. It is important that you use a sharp tool, and that you are using stick that will not sag - so aluminum tube is good for this.
In my (mostly worthless) opinion, this method is far superior to the Rollie Dad Method. Rollie Dad works fairly well on a mill, but it does not take into account the sag of the stock on the lathe, and it assumes the material is not bent in two planes.
Here is Abom doing this method on a big piece of steel on his Monarch





For aligning the tail stock, I prefer the "2 ring method."




For some reason, mrpete makes a tool from steel and aluminum, which is a waste of time. Just use a piece of free machining stock 1" or bigger and machine a valley between the rings. In fact you do not really need the rings, they just let you do the test with less machining.
If you go to Suburban Tools and buy yourself a very very expensive test bar that is guaranteed to some ridiculous degree, it will have been ground on a machine that is aligned by grinding and checking for taper.


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## brav65

65Cobra427SC said:


> Well this is embarrassing. Thanks brav65 but you could have just said something like "Hey dumb a**, if you would have read the entire process, you would have found out it's for aligning the 'lathe' and not the tailstock." Sorry about that.




No problem I just figured you were not clear on what I was talking about so I posted it for you.


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## Muskt

Two things I like about this forum:

1.  Generally & overall very civil....  Some forums are repulsive to anyone who makes a typo or asks a question that may not be worded quite accurately---BRAVO group.

2.  Free flow of info & ideas.  I have learned a lot from the members here, & have even been able to contribute now & then.

Kudos to all.

Jerry in Delaware


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## 65Cobra427SC

I agree Muskt. I made a contribution yesterday for the exact same reasons. I wouldn't dare post the same questions on another forum I joined early on. Someone warned me about them so I never posted, but you'll get thrashed for simple questions. And don't even mention you have a Chinese machine. Sometimes I go there and read posts just for the entertainment


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks for the videos Joshua. Now understand the processes and the differences between them so it was a big help. And tubalcain was correct about his tailstock alignment video... "lengthy and laborious" pretty much summed it up, especially when I realized there was a Part 2.

Your suggestions makes sense. Even as I watched Part 2, once he started cutting the rings, I was wondering why he went through all that trouble when he could just make the same cuts that guy did in the Monarch video. Some people just don't want to let go of the good old South Bend way, I guess.

A very good day of learning. Thanks to everyone for the replies.


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## mattthemuppet2

for aligning a tailstock, simply lining up a center in the spindle and a center in the tail stock should be good enough - use a razor blade or similar piece of flat metal between them if you want an easier visual cue. 

If you want more precision, center drill a piece of stock, chuck it up and hold the other end with your center, then do a couple of light passes so that it is cut from one end to the other. Then mike both ends. If the TS end is smaller, the TS is towards you. If the chuck end is smaller, the TS is away from you. Same idea as the 2 collar test.

If you want to get _really_ fancy, turn a spud in your chuck that is exactly the diameter of your tailstock quill. Run your tailstock up to it, lock it down and then use a DTI or dial indicator to measure and difference between the 2 surfaces. You then need to move the quill/ tailstock half that distance (I think that's right). This is also really good for dealing with a high or low tailstock.


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## 65Cobra427SC

More questions...

When would I use a 3-jaw chuck instead of the 4-jaw chuck? Is there any work one would do where the 3-jaw has an advantage, or is it now just a paper weight?

My lathe came with the DRO option but I don't have the display yet because I upgraded to the ES12 at the last minute, and it's on order. On my mill, the display has to be turned on/off separately as it stays on even when I push the mill Power Off button. I'm assuming the same thing will happen with the lathe? Unfortunately, I've left the DRO on the mill turned on several times. I plan to install a master power switch on both machines which would also take care of that problem, but is it safe for the DRO display to switch on/off that way? Concerned about that initial spike of current.


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## mksj

Three jaw scroll is quicker for a lot of repeat work and for smaller stock, while a 4 jaw independent needs to be dialed in all the time. The 4J independent was really slow for me when removing stock in/out of the chuck a lot. Traditional 4J chucks are pretty wide/rough at the jaw tips, so not very good for holding small stock, say under 1/2". My go too chuck is an 8" combination 4 Jaw, scroll with independent jaws that hold stock down to 0.200". Getting stock in/out of the chuck is quick, and then one can tweak the TIR down in about minute. I use a 6" 3J scroll chuck which holds a TIR of better than 0.001",  so it also just as well. I prefer it if I am do a lot of repeat widgets on the lathe.  Round stock under 3/4", I almost always use a collet chuck system. Everyone has their preferences, I think getting a good quality chuck in the first place is more important to the user's experience.  

I wired my DRO to my machine power on my mill and lathe. The mill has an accessory socket box tied to the main machine power switch, the lathe DRO is hard wired to my power terminal in the control box. Be aware that as to the DRO setting for 120V vs 240V, I Run 4 wire power to the mill and lathe. One switch shuts everything down. Spike current? should be no difference to the DRO if it is the machine power switch or the DRO switch, most electrical equipment have some forum of line filtering and inrush protection anyway.


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## mattthemuppet2

3 jaws are very handy if you have something round or hexagonal you want to machine and can do all the machining ops without having to take it out of the chuck. 3 jaws almost always have some runout, but that doesn't matter if you're making cuts as the cut surface will be concentric with the spindle and other cut surfaces. It's only a problem if you need to take the part out and make another cut concentric to those other cut surfaces - here you'd be better of using a 4 jaw where you can dial in the piece with reference to one of those surfaces.

4 jaws are great but you can fiddle fart around for a few minutes getting the part running concentric when you could have mounted it in the 3 jaw and done the cut already. Each has their own uses. Collet chucks have the best of both worlds in theory - as accurate and repeatable as a 4 jaw but as easy to use as a 3 jaw. Downside with those is that they're limited in the max size of stock they can hold and odd shapes are difficult or impossible to hold. Every tool has it's uses!


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks for the info mksj and Matt. Pretty sure I follow... just need some time to absorb it all so my head doesn't explode 

Matt, the collet chuck sounded interesting so I took a look online. Wouldn't an MT5 to R8 adapter (if they make such a thing) accomplish the same thing?

Added the following

Learn by doing... installed the 4-jaw for the first time and now I see what you mean about dialing it in. Trying to adjust the jaws independent of one another makes me just want to put it back in the drawer... forever!

I also just found out, once the locking pins are installed on the chucks, they're too high to fit back in the tool cabinet drawer. The only drawer high enough (and not very large) is used for machine oil, way oil, spray cans, etc. The 3-jaw has just become my best friend


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## mattthemuppet2

you could use an ER collet chuck made for mills, but then you loose the ability to pass stock through the chuck and your spindle. Better to get one (or make one, they're not hard) made for the lathe. I really like the ER collet chuck I just finished making


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## 65Cobra427SC

Can I have it? 

Guess I'll just have to add it to the list. BTW, which ER collet set did you make it for? I would think the larger the better but it looks like they get pretty expensive.


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## mattthemuppet2

sorry, it's sleeping under my pillow  I used ER25 as that's what would fit the stock I had and the largest ER25 collet (16mm or 5/8) is already larger then the through hole in my lathe's spindle (1/2). For a 1236 I'd go with an ER40. More money, but you might as well make the most of the machine. Save up for some half decent collets though - mine are ok, some better than others, but definitely could be better.


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## joshua43214

Don't worry about leaving the DRO on, let alone turning it on or off.
I ran two wires to my mill and lathe. A 220v main for the machine, and a 20A 110v line that powers 2 outlets.
The outlets get used for accessories like the DRO, a lamp, etc. No need to turn them off with a master power switch unless you have kids.
The are no more dangerous than a refrigerator, you can leave them plugged, on or off, and ignore them like you do a toaster when not in use.

4jaw chuck are only crazy-making until you understand how to adjust them. I use mine more than my 3jaw, with a little practice it takes only a moment to dial one in. There are many YouTube videos showing techniques for it. Abom is the master of it, you boggle at how fast and accurately he does it. The basic principle is to work the chuck in opposite pairs of jaws.
The 4 jaw will hold the work more securely with less pressure than the 3jaw. This means that you will leave fewer jaw marks on the work, and distort parts less with the 4jaw. I mostly only use my 3jaw for lopping repeated parts off the same stock, or gripping hex stock.

On the subject of collets. Make sure you do some good research on the pros and cons of 5C vs ER collets. Both have strengths and weaknesses, and the ER system has many limitations. You can't get expanding collets, square or hex collets in ER. The stock must also be the full gripping length of the collet in ER. 5C on the other hand have an extremely small clamping range, but the above mentioned collets are available and you can clamp stock of any length in them. ER is meant for tool holding and has been adapted to workholding by some pros and hobbyist, so there is little support for work holding commercially. 5C is meant for work holding and there is a huge range of work holding options.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thank you both for the info... really helped a lot.

At the moment I'm trying my luck at threading but something isn't right. I've read the "PM-1236 Threading and Feed Rate Directions" pdf manual and so far I understand how to set everything and change the gears when needed... so no issues there.

Now I'm reading the "Auto Feed" section on Pages 23-25 of the "PM-1236 Setup and Use" pdf manual. I went through the movements of each lever to see how it all worked and the only issue is when it comes to "crossfeed" travel... it doesn't move under power at all. No problem cranking it by hand (with the levers in the correct positions) but when I set the feed direction (either left or right), disengage the half nut lever (up) and set the feed engagement lever (either up or down), it won't budge. I can see the leadscrew turning... and the half nut is open so that's not the problem... but nothing else is turning that I can see. But it seems like the crossfeed screw is engaged with a gear because the crossfeed handle won't turn... which should be correct.

Any ideas/suggestions?


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## wrmiller

Your 1236 should have separate feed and threading screws on the front. If you can indeed see the leadscrew turning, then you have the threading screw engaged, not the feed screw (smooth shaft with a groove in it), which is what you need for crossfeed.


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## 65Cobra427SC

That helped get me in the right direction Bill... and I found the answer with a little more trial and error and some additional searching. Turns out it has to do with one of the knobs on the front panel which I set to "M" according to the threading instructions.... not knowing what it did. Turns out the M position activates the lead screw and the S position activates the feed screw. Didn't get my threading done but at least I learned something else today. Thanks for your help.


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## Muskt

Hey Cobra.  Jerry here.
Since you appear to be pretty new to this lathe stuff, here is a link to my website (mostly 9x20 stuff) that pertains to setting up for threading.
It is extremely basic, but you may get a point or two from it.  There is lots of stuff on the site about lathe operations, so snoop around to see if any of it will benefit you.

http://www.akpilot.net/Threading Setup/Compound Setup For Threading.html

Best to you, & stay safe in the shop.
Jerry in Delaware


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks Jerry. You're correct... this is all new to me, both the lathe and the PM932 mill. Even though I've wanted something like this for years, I keep telling myself to take things slow and be careful considering this is when mistakes are usually made. Thanks for the link... I'll definitely take a look.. probably just what I need.


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## change gear

Cobra, Where did you find those pdf's for the PM1236? I recently picked up a used one with little to no info.
Thanks, Larry.


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## 65Cobra427SC

You can get them at the thread below... post #13...

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pm-1236-faq-frequently-asked-questions.14005/


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## Muskt

Go to the  
*PM 1236 FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)*

at the top of the login page and scroll down to the 13th post--the links are in it.  
I attempted to copy the links to post them for you; but, was unsuccessful.

Jerry in Delaware


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## change gear

Thank you, Much appreciated.


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## 65Cobra427SC

I have something else to identify in the included picture. And I swear this is the last of the unidentified items 

There are two of these (washers?). Both are the same, just one is flipped over to show both sides. Not sure if these came from the PM1236 or PM932 but figured I would post them here. The outside diameter is 28mm... the diameter of the raised surface on the one side is 17mm... and the center hole is about 6mm. I get the feeling they were something non-critical, so I should have just tossed them at the time, but I didn't and now I'm not sure. Sorry folks... my memory never was all that hot and it's not going to improve at my age


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## JimDawson

65Cobra427SC said:


> I have something else to identify in the included picture. And I swear this is the last of the unidentified items
> 
> There are two of these (washers?). Both are the same, just one is flipped over to show both sides. Not sure if these came from the PM1236 or PM932 but figured I would post them here. The outside diameter is 28mm... the diameter of the raised surface on the one side is 17mm... and the center hole is about 6mm. I get the feeling they were something non-critical, so I should have just tossed them at the time, but I didn't and now I'm not sure. Sorry folks... my memory never was all that hot and it's not going to improve at my age
> 
> View attachment 119216



Looks like good fodder for the misc. stuff container.  I always keep stuff like that in my hold down/setup drawer.  Never know when you might need them.


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## qualitymachinetools

Those are for the milling machine table handles. They are washers that go on the ends of the lead screws where the handles mount, and an Allen screw holds the handles on with those. Keeps them nice and tight and straighter than with just the set screws.


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## wrmiller

Good thing you didn't toss them.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Yeah, and today is garbage collection day. I'd be out there in the cold and snow rummaging through the bags trying to find them.

Wait! Snow? Wow, I just realized we got snow for the first time last night. Man, I hope this weather pattern doesn't mean we're going to get snow into June. I'll need to trade in the motorcycles for a snowmobile... blah!

Thanks QMT!!!


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## 65Cobra427SC

While reading online I noticed some lathes use wipers to keep the ways clean. Seemed like a logical idea so I was curious why the PM1236 doesn't have them and if anyone added them to their machine. Thanks.


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## darkzero

65Cobra427SC said:


> While reading online I noticed some lathes use wipers to keep the ways clean. Seemed like a logical idea so I was curious why the PM1236 doesn't have them and if anyone added them to their machine. Thanks.



The PM1236 does have wipers on both ends of the carriage, 4 to be exact,  the tailstock does not. They're not felt wipers but rather a rubber type. Well at least on my PM1236 (mfg 2009) & all the others I've seen.

You can replace them with felt from Mcmaster. Some people have added wipers to the tailstock.


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## 65Cobra427SC

You're correct Will. I saw those black pieces on each end of the carriage before but never realized rubber was clamped between them and the carriage. Actually they are more compact and neater than I expected which was a bonus. Thanks.


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## 65Cobra427SC

A while back I squirted oil into the (15) ball oilers in various locations on the lathe. But when I went to oil the top three on the cross slide, two of them suddenly pushed inward. I only recently started referring to the Grizzly manual and noticed it says "Proper lubrication of ball oilers is done with a pump-type oil can that has a plastic or rubberized cone tip. We do not recommend using metal needle or lance tips, as they can push the ball too far into the oiler, break the spring seat, and lodge the ball in the oil galley." Too late, ha. One ball oiler was only pushed in slightly... the other went further. Anyone know how to pull them upward or to remove and check? Thanks.


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## ricsmall

mksj said:


> They both do the same functions, so no difference between the models other than ES12 has a slightly different interface and graphical display (they both do radius and diameter in the lathe setting for the "X" axis). I had ordered my lathe with the ES12, as I prefer the graphical display and thought it was a 3 axis display and I could use the 3rd axis with either the tailstock or a tool post magnetic scale. Not sure how the 3rd "Z" axis would interface/display  when the DRO is set for lathe functions. Ends up the version sent from Matt with the lathe is only 2 axis. I installed an Igaging Absolute on the tailstock, which worked out very well and is quite a bit cheaper. I believe the price difference between the 2 models is around $100, a 3rd axis would be at least another $100 plus the cost of another scale. Not worth it.  I can't imagine turning without a DRO, would be much more time consuming/mistakes, and between my memory and my vision digital is much easier.
> 
> One of the quirks on the ES-12, is that the travel speed indicated of an axis is gibberish when feeding (or stationary). Otherwise it is very nice and easy to use.
> Mark
> 
> View attachment 111456



Can you tell me where u got this dro for tailstock? Also, did u buy the quill bracket or make it? Thanks

Richard


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## mksj

Hi Richard,

That is an Igaging Absolute 6" DRO purchased from Grizzly. The Absolute scale is very accurate, and I have had no problems with it dropping it's position. It does have an auto-shutoff, so it turns off in about 5 minutes. If I recall the scale needs to go in one direction (do not flip it), I trimmed about an 1" off the scale on one end with a die grinder,  it is hardened SS.  I machined the brackets out of aluminum, the readout swivels up/down and left/right.  If I had room, I would have put the reader on the backside of the tailstock and the readout hinge on the top. If you want some more detailed photos or information pm me.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Absolute-Digital-Read-Out-6-/T26539
Mark


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## tmarks11

65Cobra427SC said:


> But when I went to oil the top three on the cross slide, two of them suddenly pushed inward.


Common problem.  Doesn't matter if you use a plastic tip oiler, it is still going to happen.  They are just really cheap.  You can buy replacements from grizzly.  If you look on the product page for any of the lathes, there is a "Purchase Parts" link under the picture that will send you to a diagram page that you can select parts from.

For example, my G0709 uses the 8mm ball oiler press-in fittings on the carriage and cross slide, 6mm ball oilers on the compound.  If your lathe has the press-in type, then you can probably buy some replacements from them.  Some lathes also use 10mm oilers, IIRC.  $1.25 for a new one:
http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090605
http://www.grizzly.com/parts/P07090705
http://grizzly.com/parts/PT10718024

I think the PM1236 is closest to the 750G, which may use the same 6mm and 8mm as my lathe (the diagram shows 7mm on the cross-slide, but the part number links you to the 6mm oiler and Grizzly doesn't seem to carry a 7mm oiler.  Go figure).

Apparently they pop out if you pry them gently with a knife blade.  Reminds me; I need to buy 3 new ones, as I am in the same boat you are in.

If I ever get ambitious, I will pull the carriage off and tap the oiler holes and thread in grease fittings (using a oil gun that mates with the grease fitting, not so I can put grease in it).


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## 65Cobra427SC

Thanks for the info Tim. I'll try new ones this time but if it happens again it likely means the hole is slightly too large, rather than the bb oiler being too small. At that point I'll replace them with something else. The grease fitting idea sounds fine but you would think there has to be something else that doesn't require a different fitting. Can you use something like those oil fillers with the flip top lid? Or something similar with threads? Sounds like it's time to check McMaster and a few other places for other options.


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## Muskt

Look here:

http://www.gitsmfg.com/catalog/oil-hole-covers/

I have had this link for years; but, never did anything with it--they may have what is needed.  It looks like Fastenal carries their products

Jerry in Delaware


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## 65Cobra427SC

Nice selection... thanks. McMaster also has a decent selection. Obviously there is no shortage of these things. Decisions, decisions, decisions 

One thing I noticed is the standard press fit bb oilers, at least the ones I've seen online so far, have a flange at the top. Now that I understand this more, I'll need to remove one to see if it has a flange or what the problem is. Good info.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Finally got around to removing the two sunken bb-oilers on the compound. As I expected, one took much less effort to remove and after taking measurements, the hole was ever so slightly larger as well. But I suspect both holes are slightly larger than they should be. Next I removed the ball and spring from the housing... the ball and spring are steel but the housing itself wasn't magnetic at all so I'm assuming it's brass.

Removing them didn't go well with a knife blade but one particular dental type pick did the trick. Attaching a picture of Harbor Freight 93514 which looks similar to what I have and circled the end I used as well. What's nice is the angle and tip let you hook the oiler and pull straight up.

The ones from Grizzly are exactly the same as mine... a (soft) brass housing (which won't grip as well as a steel) and no flange (which would keep them from sinking). So I'm going to try out the Metric Ball Valve Oilers from Gitz Mfg which have a nickel plated steel housing (6.1mm) and a flange (6.5mm).

Thanks for the help.


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## Steve Shannon

I've also read that a drywall screw works well as a puller. 


 Steve Shannon, P.E.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Like a bad dream, I'm back for more help 

To make a long story short... I probably drove Matt nuts changing my DRO selection for both the 932 and 1236. Exchanged the ES-8 for the ES-12 for the 932... and I'm good there... but had to do without a DRO for the 1236 until today. Thought I would install it tonight but I'm missing either (a) a part for the install or (b) a part of my brain. A missing part is likely since Matt and I exchanged items several times, but I can't find a picture of one installed to know (only those where an aftermarket DRO and/or bracket was used). Can someone post a pic of their stock install? Thanks


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## qualitymachinetools

Does your display have the stud mounted on the back of it? Shoot me a pic of what you do have and I will check it out. 

Also, those Gits oilers are better than the stock oilers. I do like them.

 But if you end up needing the stock ones, I have spares in each size. Just let me know when you are stopping by so I can have them out for you. But never, ever order Grizzly parts for a PM Machine, the PM Lathe will reject them and spit them out  

 For removal, yes the drywall screw usually works, or an EZ Out, something like that.     If you replace with the stock brass ones, if you peen the end of them over a bit before installation, that usually helps. 95% of the time, the spring just slips out, it is just not folded over enough on the end to keep it in. But a little work before installing them usually fixes that. 

https://www.dutton-lainson.com/products.php?cat=53    I have had good luck with some of these oil cans. None of them ever seem to fit perfectly, but usually they work OK.  Made in USA Too, even though we sell machinery from all over the world, I do prefer made in USA, when possible!


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## 65Cobra427SC

Yeah, it has the same pivot stud on the back... exactly like the one on the 932 DRO... but there were no separate brackets, etc. in the box. Checked online and it looks like the DRO gets attached to the top of the headstock cover. There are two unused pre-tapped holes there, but the thread on the pivot stud is too large. So apparently I'm missing either an adapter or some sort of bracket. That's when I checked online again to see what they use and/or if it uses the same bracket/arm as on the 932, but couldn't find a single clue. Any pics of the DRO had stuff laying on the headstock cover blocking the view. What can I say... I have stuff on mine as well. Let me know and I can always stop down to pick up whatever.

For now I stuck a couple pieces of tape over the two holes where I removed the brass oilers. I thought McMaster had steel replacements, but when I placed my order today I noticed they didn't have them in metric. I'll try and find the Gits but I don't like the local Fastenal store so I'll check online first. But if I'm coming down your place anyway I might as well get a couple oilers and do what you suggested. Funny cause Grizzly tells their customers not to get PM oilers because the Grizzly will just devour them. 

I never would have thought of using drywall screws if Steve hadn't suggested them. The dental pics I used worked much better than I expected but I also have several boxes of drywall screws... something you tend to accumulate when you're working on the inside of the house. Next time I remove any oilers I'll try out the screws... I'm all for whichever works the best.

I actually purchased an oil can with a flex spout from McMaster a while back when I noticed the cheap ones were... well... still cheap   Sometimes you don't know what you're actually going to get from McMaster (i.e. Brand) but I've never been disappointed. I received a very nice Goldenrod oiler with a flex spout. Works well and doesn't leak at all. I read where some people put a short piece of rubber hose on the end as a cushion and to keep the tip from pushing the ball too far into the oiler. One person suggested clear tubing so you can also see what you're doing.

It's going to be a while before I get good at this but I've learned a lot already thanks to this forum... and YouTube since I like videos


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## 65Cobra427SC

qualitymachinetools said:


> Does your display have the stud mounted on the back of it? Shoot me a pic of what you do have and I will check it out.



Picture of the ES-12 Mount.


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## 65Cobra427SC

Picked up the correct ES-12 bracket for my lathe. Glad I didn't waste my time making one since this was a nice one piece black with oblong base and curved shaft. Also several replacement ball oilers but like I thought they're not tight enough. Easily pushed out from the bottom with a small drill bit so I'll peen the ends and reinstall later today. The GIT versions with a flange should take care of the problem permanently. Back to the workshop to practice threading.


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## accokeek

65Cobra427SC said:


> Jerry... at this point I haven't used it to actually make anything so take the following with a grain of salt.
> 
> The levelers are adjusted so the height of the cabinet is on the lower side but I didn't want to make it any lower in case I had to make any further adjustments later. I'm 5'7" and the center of the chuck is about  4' 1" up from the floor... which is right below my chest. Maybe mark that height on a wall, or wherever, to see what you think. Personally I think it's fine. It looks like it will let me sit on a stool, but even if I stand I can see what I'm doing without hunching over all the time.
> 
> 02/24/2016: Now that I've done more with the 1236, I take back what I said above. The lathe IS too high so I plan to build a large platform out of wood to stand on. I needed to eventually put something over the hard concrete floor anyway and now it will need to add some height as well. Sorry if I mislead anyone.


Thanks for the update, I have just purchased a PM1236 from Matt after much thought, research and dithering and since I intend to use Foot Master leveling casters, Matt suggested that I add a tubular steel frame before mounting the casters. Your design #5 and picture looks like just what I need and since I'm only an inch taller than you the need for platform is good information.  This site and particularly the PM fora have helped me learn a lot


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## 65Cobra427SC

I used to be an inch taller but age took care of that 

Design #5 was actually Matt's idea... it made sense so I went with it. And it doesn't require any welding which can be a plus for some people. I only live 30 minutes from their place which is really nice. I needed a replacement drawbar for my PM932 (didn't realize mine was damaged) emailed him one day and picked it up the next morning along with the missing DRO bracket for my PM1236. Everyone there has been really nice and I couldn't say enough good about them.

Those Foot Master levelers look really nice and from what I've read people seem like them a lot so you made a good choice. And wow, I just noticed they actually have them in stainless steel... my weakness and metal of choice whenever possible


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