# Ender 3 Pro



## vtcnc (Sep 23, 2019)

OK, I've had my Ender 3 Pro for about a solid month and have made several prints with it. I have to say that out of the box, I'm very happy with the unit. One of the things I didn't like was the magnetic print bed that is removable. It gets kinked and is difficult to clean without changing the texture of the print surface. Anyway, I bought a glass plate and it arrived today.

The adhesion is much better but I had to up my build plate temp by 10C up to 70C to get the thicker glass to hold a good temp.

I use Cura. Very easy and intuitive to use. I may experiment with others if there is a real compelling reason but right now I'm happy with the software.

One thing I've noticed is that rafts and brims are inconsistently printed. Sometimes they come out perfect, other times, NOT so much. 

Example: 





You can see the thin solid ring in the middle of the layer is the part I'm printing. The wider, less cohesive layers are the raft. Notice how in the South, East and North locations of the raft how the extruded bead follows the path well but once it starts travelling west and south again - the raft lines appear to lose steps or something.

Also notice the step in the rings. I can visibly see the machine jump when it gets to this spot. There is another print identical to this mirrored to the left of the extruder. The ring is on the SE side of the rings.

Weird. Any thoughts??


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## MikeWi (Sep 24, 2019)

Rafts and brims have their own settings, so that could have something to do with it, but first things first. 

Did you calibrate the steps for all steppers? 
The extruder? 
Determine the flow multiplier?
All of these things work together to either make a great print or screw it up. 
How do you level the bed? Part of the print seems to be more flattened onto the bed than others. 
Did that sketchy area adhere, or did it not stick down at all? I'm guessing you're using PLA, and 70 is what I use for a bed temp for that, so it should be good.

Anyway, that's what I'd start with, and we can go from there.


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## rgray (Sep 24, 2019)

Looks like the bed is not level. Also looks like you could raise the bed a little.
If there is a "jump" in a certain spot that sounds mechanical. Might be something binding etc.


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## samstu (Sep 24, 2019)

I'm with issues of level bed and first layer calibrations.  It looks to me that the left rear of the bed is low on the picture.  

I sent my Nephew an Ender 3 pro a couple months back and they reported back that it was easy to assemble but difficult to get right.  It's really up to the builder to get frame pieces square as they are being assembled as the software can only compensate so much for build geometry.   Distorted geometry could cause binding.  So could a twist in a belt.


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## brino (Sep 24, 2019)

Hi Bryan,

To me it looks like binding somewhere. I do NOT know the details of your machine, but I'd check  the linear rails/rod and lead-screws for blemishes, bends, etc. especially near the "west" end.

This site:
https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/
has been very useful to me to help identify other printing defects.

-brino


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## vtcnc (Sep 24, 2019)

Wow! Lot of great observations and replies...



MikeWi said:


> Rafts and brims have their own settings, so that could have something to do with it, but first things first.
> 
> Did you calibrate the steps for all steppers?
> The extruder?
> ...



I have yet to dig into the setting on rafts and brims. I will do the three steps you suggest first. Have no idea what the flow multiplier is but I will research that tonight.

I level the bed manually. The unevenness you and others are seeing is quality of the photo. It takes about 20 minutes to level this machine but once you have it there it holds level for quite sometime. The one problem I was seeing with the magentic base is that once you remove it you always were better off releveling. A real pain.

I am running at 70C because of the thickness of the glass bed. The raft tends to stick well at that temp. The areas that look sketchy are not adhering well. The extrusion thickness varies and looks segmented to me. Because of how this behaves, it doesn't adhere well.



rgray said:


> Looks like the bed is not level. Also looks like you could raise the bed a little.
> If there is a "jump" in a certain spot that sounds mechanical. Might be something binding etc.



I agree that the bed could be raised a little bit. The actual prints however didn't come out that bad vs. the rafts. I think you are onto something about the jump and binding because even though I was happy with the final print, there were some artifacts.



samstu said:


> I'm with issues of level bed and first layer calibrations.  It looks to me that the left rear of the bed is low on the picture.
> 
> I sent my Nephew an Ender 3 pro a couple months back and they reported back that it was easy to assemble but difficult to get right.  It's really up to the builder to get frame pieces square as they are being assembled as the software can only compensate so much for build geometry.   Distorted geometry could cause binding.  So could a twist in a belt.



Checked the level and I'm not sure I can get it any more level, but I will keep tweaking. I did wonder if the belts were binding for some reason. While I could see it jump at the extruder, I couldn't quite pinpoint if it was on the X or Y belts. 



brino said:


> Hi Bryan,
> 
> To me it looks like binding somewhere. I do NOT know the details of your machine, but I'd check  the linear rails/rod and lead-screws for blemishes, bends, etc. especially near the "west" end.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link @brino. I'm going to do the calibration steps Mike suggests above, refine my leveling and then print a test to see how it goes. Tonight might just be a raft settings night. While I'm denying a lil' bit that the bed is out of level, I'm going to double check just in case. I just can't see how it would change so dramatically over the course of a 1" long arc, looking perfect on one side of the circle and crappy on the opposite side but a moment later. Maybe I'll re-print and show you the side by side rafts on the print so you can see what I mean. That's why it smells more like a calibration and/or binding issue of some sort to me.

Thanks everybody again for the keen insight.


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## Ulma Doctor (Sep 27, 2019)

Hi Bryan,
i'm a total newb at 3d printing.
i just got the Ender 3 on Monday and i noticed the very same tendency when creating a brim.
i also purchased the glass bed,
one thing i found to be a PITA  is re-level the bed for the glass after using the stock, non-magnetic, sheet (on the latest units)
i had to level the glass twice, and adjust the travel speed, then my brim adhesion improved.

i have not raised my bed temperature to compensate for the glass
i do, go through the prepare loop, and preheat the bed and extruder before i attempt to load the slicer package.
i use the crealtiy 1.2.3 slicer (cura powered)

i'm using black PLA
i don't know if colors affect settings.
i do know, different plastics , abs, and pvc can be used-all with different characteristics and nuances


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## vtcnc (Sep 27, 2019)

Hi Mike,

I've done/am doing essentially everything you are doing. I have found that while the machine is easy to level, it is tedious and for some reason doesn't always stay level. Haven't quite figured out why yet. 

I have the magnetic sheet that came with the Ender 3 Pro, it was working really well at first, but then started to kink and one time, didn't sit flat and had a slight bump off the heated bed beneath that I didn't notice. That sealed the deal for a glass bed.

I'm using Cura but upon @MikeWi prompting, have been investigating changing the whole setup of firmware and software and moving to a Klipper setup. I'm not 100% sold on this yet as I haven't finished researching it to see what it will take - time, money and patience.

Having an injection molding background, pigments do not tend to have a noticable effect on resins unless they have fillers such as glass, but that is different than a pigment.

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to tinker around this weekend with the step and extruder calibrations and spend some quality time understanding bed leveling and dialing it in and see where that gets me.

Bryan


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## stioc (Sep 27, 2019)

I'm chomping at the bit to buy a 3D printer. Narrowed my choice (price and popularity based) down to the Ender but I keep hearing issues with the bed or the glass bed. Is the glass bed supposed to help or better to stick with the older (or non pro) model without the bed issues?


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## Pierre52 (Sep 27, 2019)

Guys I have been 3D printing for a couple of years and  for me it took at least 6 months  to get some consistent results.  I am on my 2nd printer which was largely made by my first printer.  Some observations:
1. 3D printing is a big learning curve with all the inherent frustrations but you will get there with time and persistence.
2. The Ender 3 is probably the best entry level printer available at the moment.  That is a common statement by most of the influencers on You Tube.
3.  As someone else suggested, Simplify 3D has an excellent troubleshooting guide on their website.
4. The majority of problems stem from an imperfect 1st layer and the majority of imperfect 1st layer problems stem from a bed that isn't "perfectly" level.  Remember that the layer height is usually only .1mm to .2mm high so it takes very little to get a bed out of level.
5.  It is often a good idea to secure a printer to a perfectly flat surface as lack of rigidity in any axis will influence bed level in relationship to the print nozzle.  
6. To me, the pictures from the OP are a classic case of a bed out of level and the print nozzle starting too high above the bed. 
7.  In the terms of some experts, a good first layer must have a small degree of "squish".  In other words it should be slightly oval rather than round.
8. There are some very good 3d printing tutorials on You Tube.  I would recommend the following:
a. Tom Sanladerer
b. 3D Printing Nerd
c.  Makers Muse
d.  3DMN
e, CHEP


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## vtcnc (Sep 28, 2019)

UPDATE:

Leveled the glass bed twice today using the method defined by Creality. Pretty simple. I aim to try and get the nozzle to just grab the paper. Did a quick test print and basically got the same results, but slightly better as previously posted.

When I loaded up Cura, it flashed a notice that there was an update. After ignoring it initially, I figured it wouldn't hurt to update.

Once updated, I ran a test print:






Leveling seemed to help with the print looking evenly squished. However, you can see that there is still a "stitch" across the raft. The stitch occurs in different positions of the clock around the raft.

Conclusion. Paying attention to the leveling helps. Also, it appears that updating Cura (and resetting print configurations in the process) helped bring things back to "normal". 

However, the stitching really bothers me and as I watched the X and Y axes, I noticed that the belt on the X was skipping as it went over the stitch. I'll tighten things up tomorrow - but I'm skeptical if that will help. I can't see how a skip could happen every time in the same place and then randomize on each raft like that.


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## vtcnc (Sep 29, 2019)

vtcnc said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Leveled the glass bed twice today using the method defined by Creality. Pretty simple. I aim to try and get the nozzle to just grab the paper. Did a quick test print and basically got the same results, but slightly better as previously posted.
> 
> ...



Was thinking about this last night: why would the stitch move on the clock from raft to raft? I kind of had a "duh" moment after my first coffee and looking at the photo again. When the machine rapids over to the next raft, that include an x move. So naturally, the skip in the axis will move because of the relative positions between the rafts.

I'm going to tighten up the X axis belt and see if that helps.


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## foleda (Sep 30, 2019)

vtcnc said:


> Was thinking about this last night: why would the stitch move on the clock from raft to raft? I kind of had a "duh" moment after my first coffee and looking at the photo again. When the machine rapids over to the next raft, that include an x move. So naturally, the skip in the axis will move because of the relative positions between the rafts.
> 
> I'm going to tighten up the X axis belt and see if that helps.


To me the stitch looks the point where the printer shifts from one circle to the next.  I'm not familiar with cura but look to see if there is a setting to make the shift between concentric circles happen at a random position instead of all at the same clock position.  Also look for a "vase" setting which will print as a continuous spiral.


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## emilypixels (Oct 4, 2019)

Some thoughts (not sure which you've tried/know about so):

Level using a feeler gauge, harder to lose and doesn't compress like a paper scrap. For my printer this ends up happiest with .007 ~ .008
Do you need a brim or raft? These are not as critical for PLA as for ABS and others. Try a skirt, which is intended only to "prime" the flow and get a good start on feeding filament. You can also check it while it prints to see if it looks right.
Cura has 3 sections - these are in a different location depending on version. On 4.2.1 at least, thesea re under "PREVIEW" - this will show you the toolpath and operations.
How are you running print jobs? Once you feel comfortable and the machine is tuned in consider adding a raspberry pi+octoprint.


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## AlanB (Oct 4, 2019)

Perhaps lack of sufficient retraction during the move.

Octoprint is great.


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## vtcnc (Oct 5, 2019)

Well, bed leveling seemed to be everything behind 99% of the problems. That and setting the distance between the nozzle tip and the bed. The only remaining problem I see at this point is the stitching on the rafts. It only appears on rafts and not in the prints themselves. So far so good. Thanks everybody for the help!


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## vtcnc (Oct 9, 2019)

Now that I worked out some of the leveling bugs, I've been back at it:

My Craftsman bucket topper vacuum creates a bit of a cyclone in my shop. Found this diffuser on Thingiverse. Here is my print:






Printed at .28mm layer thickness. Took about three hours. You can see there is still a little stitch on the raft. Fits nearly perfectly in the Craftsman blower port and diffuses the air fairly well - at least better than the jet coming out the back of it.


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## MikeWi (Oct 9, 2019)

there are things you can do to reduce that seam, but the simplest of them all is to just let the slicer places the seams randomly. Sometimes that's all it needs.


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## Richard White (richardsrelics) (Mar 13, 2020)

I recently purchased an Ender3, used... Some things I did, Converted to glass bed, use Elmers glue stick, purple when applied, see thru shortly after. This helps as you know where you put it... can be quite challenging to get the parts off as they stick that good... There are programs out the to assist with bed leveling, very helpful.  To install the glass bed, simply raise the Z axis home switch then adjust bed accordingly. I also changed to Direct Drive extruder. It is theory make a difference, but I am still on the fence as it allowed other issue to rear their ugly heads. I am confident that these issues are a result of ME doing something stupid and not a fault of the machine.  I now spend WAYYYYYY too much time watching this thing print stuff and not enough time making stuff for my business....LOL  Oh I also replaced the plastic extruder housing with an anodized one... the plastic had many signs of wear...


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## Pierre52 (Mar 13, 2020)

Slicers are a bit like Coffee.  Everyone has their favourite brand and most are reluctant to give another brand a go.  

Most often in any new slicer you have to set up a profile for your machine: bed size, homing offsets etc.   For Ender 3 users, Joe Prusa has just released a new version of his FREE Prusa Slicer with an Ender 3 profile already built in.   

Even better Makers Muse has just released a video showing how to dial in the slicer to improve results.
The video is worth watching just for the tips on thinks like number of walls and supports.


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