# Drought and hard times



## snoopdog (Jul 20, 2022)

So, here in Oklahoma we are going on over a month with no rain, and 100 degree temps. The pastures are burnt up and ranchers are selling out, tough times. It happens every so often, we've sold out twice, and may have to do so again. But my rant is about the price gouging hay marketeers. Our hay production cost has went up for sure, fert at 1k per ton, and fuel at 5 a gallon, but these guys asking 100 a bale, just really irk me. Wasn't too long ago they were burnt up and begging for hay and we sent semi loads there way, reasonably priced, because it was the right thing to do. Is this where we're at now as a society, dog eat dog, win at any cost? I don't like it.


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## Alcap (Jul 20, 2022)

I pray for all those in areas of extreme heat and drought some relief soon.


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## Jim F (Jul 20, 2022)

Same thing is happening on the used tool market........


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## woodchucker (Jul 20, 2022)

I pray for the world, and what is happening. I fear for our kids, and their kids. GLOBAL WARMING is real, it's not climate change. And hopefully someone realizes colonizing another planet is not going to happen, and they figure out how to solve our problems across the world.


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## mmcmdl (Jul 20, 2022)

Jim F said:


> Same thing is happening on the used tool market........


I agree , which is why I just bought all the stuff in the garage . Talking with someone here about a 12" PM lathe was about 9 grand and had to wait 6 - 8 months sounded crazy to me . We don't make machines here anymore , and the overseas markets can sell for what they want if they have the market for it . This will push up the price of good used equipment along with it . Call it price gouging or inflation . I'll always need need a mill and a lathe on site , just for my hobbies . I'm not willing to pay those high prices to buy new when I know what I can get a perfectly good used machine for . And they ARE out there , you just have to know what you're looking for and be the first one there with cash in hand .


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## Jim F (Jul 20, 2022)

Prices for used stuff is getting stupid lately,though.


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## snoopdog (Jul 20, 2022)

mmcmdl said:


> I agree , which is why I just bought all the stuff in the garage . Talking with someone here about a 12" PM lathe was about 9 grand and had to wait 6 - 8 months sounded crazy to me . We don't make machines here anymore , and the overseas markets can sell for what they want if they have the market for it . This will push up the price of good used equipment along with it . Call it price gouging or inflation . I'll always need need a mill and a lathe on site , just for my hobbies . I'm not willing to pay those high prices to buy new when I know what I can get a perfectly good used machine for . And they ARE out there , you just have to know what you're looking for and be the first one there with cash in hand .


I've said for years, that we will lose a conventional world war the next time , because of a lack of technicians and machinists, people willing to get their hands dirty. Recently though, I have a tendency to believe it would be because people just didn't want to give up a few things. If you asked people nowadays to ration coffee or sugar, or gas , personally I believe they would just throw their hands up and surrender.


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## rwm (Jul 20, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> I pray for the world, and what is happening. I fear for our kids, and their kids. GLOBAL WARMING is real, it's not climate change. And hopefully someone realizes colonizing another planet is not going to happen, and they figure out how to solve our problems across the world.


Nothing against Elon, but if you consider the Earth after global warming, overpopulation, global drought, famine and nuclear war, it is still more hospitable than Mars.


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## woodchucker (Jul 20, 2022)

And most of our goods come from China, so if we go to war with China, which they are threatening now over Taiwan, we will have a severe shortage of chips, computers, etc to control many things. Most of our weapons have USA made chips, but I am sure many offshore goods sneak in.


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## tq60 (Jul 20, 2022)

So tired of global warming and climate change.

At one time it was all frozen, ice age, then Africa was under water.

Death valley is full of aquatic fossils...

Things change, man may be helping or maybe not.

When those who are making the most noise stop flying in jets and start living life of Amish then maybe they are serious.

Back in the 70's they were stressing cooling was coming.

Yes, it seems it is warming, and food grows better when warmer.

But these same people complain that farmers use too much water and would rather it just flow out to ocean.

Then they complain about cost of food.



Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## Jim F (Jul 20, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> And most of our goods come from China, so if we go to war with China, which they are threatening now over Taiwan, we will have a severe shortage of chips, computers, etc to control many things. *Most of our weapons have USA made chips, but I am sure many offshore goods sneak in.*


More than you think.
I had a job making electronic circut boards, lots of chinesium parts on boards for Raytheon, etc...


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## Bi11Hudson (Jul 21, 2022)

Global Warming has been taking place since the last Ice Age. It's nothing new, has been going on for thousands of years. It just became a matter of public concern when someone figured out how to make money from it.

.


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## Just for fun (Jul 21, 2022)

@snoopdog Sorry to hear about the drought and the cost of hay.  Here in the Northwest, we have been experiencing a cool spring and early summer.  I haven't priced hay lately, I'm the sure the cost has increased.

Time's sure have changed, and I'm with you snoopdog I am not liking it.


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## higgite (Jul 21, 2022)

Bi11Hudson said:


> Global Warming has been taking place since the last Ice Age. It's nothing new, has been going on for thousands of years. It just became a matter of public concern when someone figured out how to make money from it.
> 
> .


Maybe if we could get a Swedish teenager to travel the world lecturing grownups about how high income taxes cause climate change, famine and unsightly blemishes...

Tom


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## Eyerelief (Jul 21, 2022)

@snoopdog I can feel your pain here in Texas.  Seems like these triple digit temps are never going to end.  The tanks (ponds) are drying up, the grass is gone.  We will be burning pear (cactus) before to long just to try to keep things moving.  Critters are getting lean.  And it aint even August yet.  As far as the hay goes, for some folks its a world where I scratch your back, wait a minute, what are you doing to my back?


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## woodchucker (Jul 21, 2022)

rwm said:


> Nothing against Elon, but if you consider the Earth after global warming, overpopulation, global drought, famine and nuclear war, it is still more hospitable than Mars.


The problem is getting everyone to pull in the same direction and that's a big problem.  You have nay sayers. You've always had people who can't see the forrest from the trees. Simply seen, the temps are getting hotter, the droughts more severe, the storms more violent. Whether you believe we were responsible or not is not important, we have to find a way to fix the problem. To deny a problem is just STUPID. We can't survive if it gets too hot. As it is, the Hoover dam will shortly stop producing electricity, because lake Meade is getting so low. It's only producing about 27% now.
Other dams are also in danger.
You can't run electric vehicles w/out power. You can't have crops w/out rain, or some irrigation.   Hot begets hotter.


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## woodchucker (Jul 21, 2022)

Bi11Hudson said:


> Global Warming has been taking place since the last Ice Age. It's nothing new, has been going on for thousands of years. It just became a matter of public concern when someone figured out how to make money from it.
> 
> .


Sorry, I totally disagree with that.  Really to make money from it. You mean we had nothing to do with this?  Does this mean we just roll over and die?  Because we will be the next extinction if we can't solve the problem of too much heat.  Too much heat, means less produce eventually. More deserts.


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## 7milesup (Jul 21, 2022)

Bi11Hudson said:


> Global Warming has been taking place since the last Ice Age. It's nothing new, has been going on for thousands of years. It just became a matter of public concern when someone figured out how to make money from it.
> 
> .


With all due respect Bill, you are terribly, terribly wrong about that statement.  If anyone believes, at this point, that the earth is just undergoing a "normal correction because it has done this before", they are completely uneducated on what is happening.  The earth has warmed significantly since the beginning of the industrial revolution, which is no coincidence.  It should also be noted that the sun has cooled about 3 degrees since the early 1960s, so if it wasn't for all of the carbon in our atmosphere, we should actually be cooler.  
Regarding your statement about money, the oil companies knew that they were contributing to the earth's climate change way back in the early 70s; it is just that no one cared, and they kept their secret under wraps.  Watch *Frontline's 'The Power of Big Oil' if you want to learn more. *  So yes, money did contribute to global warming, just not in the way that you may think it did.
If you want to read a very good book, I would suggest *Bill Bryson's 'A Short History of Nearly Everything'. *  I would recommend chapters 10, 17, 19, and 26 ( I think) to start understanding what is taking place. 
We dodged a bullet when CFCs were destroying our ozone layer, and it was because of the world leaders, politicians, and scientists coming together to make an immediate change did we avoid disaster.  
Climate change and global warming is happening, whether one wants to believe it or not.  The question is do you care?  If you have grandkids, the chance of them having a habital earth is growing slimmer by the year.


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## woodchucker (Jul 21, 2022)

Alaska
from https://www.nps.gov/articles/aps-v12-i2-c4.htm
it was even worse when I went in 2016.. Many mountains/ volcanoes had no snow/glaciers on top. Some had traces.


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## Shotgun (Jul 21, 2022)

Willie Nelson was out singing for the ranchers to get hay for the same reason back in the 80's.  There was an actual dust bowl in the 30s.   If we just give the government "experts" more control, then everything will be just fine.  How did those Vikings wind up on GREENland again?


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## Eyerelief (Jul 21, 2022)

Didn’t Al invent the internet?


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## 7milesup (Jul 21, 2022)

Shotgun said:


> Willie Nelson was out singing for the ranchers to get hay for the same reason back in the 80's.  There was an actual dust bowl in the 30s.  But, sure . . . once Al Gore figured out he could make money on an exchange for carbon credits that he had invested in,  he had to expose the inconvenient truth that Florida was going to be underwater by 2013.  If we just give the government "experts" more control, then everything will be just fine.  How did those Vikings wind up on GREENland again?


Sorry, but Al Gore has nothing to with global warming.   He might have "predicted" something at one point or another, but he is no scientist.  

If you know your history, which apparently you do not, Greenland was not named as such because it was green.  Quite the opposite actually.  Greenland's original name from its native people is "Iunaat Nunaat" which means "Land of the People".  

Keep politics out of this conversation.


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## woodchucker (Jul 21, 2022)

Shotgun said:


> Willie Nelson was out singing for the ranchers to get hay for the same reason back in the 80's.  There was an actual dust bowl in the 30s.  But, sure . . . once Al Gore figured out he could make money on an exchange for carbon credits that he had invested in,  he had to expose the inconvenient truth that Florida was going to be underwater by 2013.  If we just give the government "experts" more control, then everything will be just fine.  How did those Vikings wind up on GREENland again?


You're amazing.     Al Gore nothing. Back in the 60s Nasa recognized the problem. But some of you have your head in the sand. You can debate whether we caused it or not.. But you can't debate that we are getting hotter. In order for us and our offspring to survive something needs to be done, and NOW not later.


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## WobblyHand (Jul 21, 2022)

Please stop falling into a political discussion.  There is no home for politics on this website, by design.  It tears us apart, rather than keeping us together talking about things related to hobby machining.  One of the website rules, which we all agreed to when we signed up, is NO POLITICS.  That also means no political innuendo or jibes.  The rules apply to all of us.  

Yes, it has been hot.  In many places hotter and drier than it has been in a long, long while.  It makes it difficult to get by, never mind prosper.  Even in the relatively soggy northeast where I live, we are in severe drought now.  The soil is like powder.  Not good for local farmers - they are hurting.


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## higgite (Jul 21, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> The problem is getting everyone to pull in the same direction and that's a big problem.


With all due respect, I think you mean the problem is getting everyone to pull in the direction that you want them to pull.  

Tom


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## Provincial (Jul 21, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> The problem is getting everyone to pull in the same direction and that's a big problem.  You have nay sayers. You've always had people who can't see the forrest from the trees. Simply seen, the temps are getting hotter, the droughts more severe, the storms more violent. Whether you believe we were responsible or not is not important, we have to find a way to fix the problem. To deny a problem is just STUPID. We can't survive if it gets too hot. *As it is, the Hoover dam will shortly stop producing electricity, because lake Meade is getting so low. It's only producing about 27% now.*
> Other dams are also in danger.
> You can't run electric vehicles w/out power. You can't have crops w/out rain, or some irrigation.   Hot begets hotter.


Low levels in Lake Mead are not due to Climate Change, or whatever you want to call it.  

I checked the government websites, and precipitation in the Colorado River Basin (where Lake Meade water comes from) is about 90% normal this water year (since Oct. 1st.) so the low level of the lake can only be caused by two things:
1. - Release of too much water past the dam during the peak run-off period.
or,
2. - Diversion of too much water to users outside the watershed, like California.  

I believe it is #2.  California has been taking more than their quota for decades.  Southern California is living on borrowed time when it comes to water.  Both agricultural and domestic use.  There is too much population there for the existing water supply to support.  Agricultural use has been pretty stable, but population growth has been increasing.  The politicians won't address the problem, because it might cost them votes.  

L.A. grew large by taking water from rural areas.  It finally ran out of readily stealable water, and the Federal Government had to step in with Hoover Dam to provide both water and power.  If you want an entertaining look at that period, watch the movie "Chinatown", which is a fictional story set in the real setting of Southern California during that period.  Political Power, Money, Electrical Power, Water, and Ego.  All were present there in that time, and still are.  Except the Water and Electricity are running out now.


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## Firebrick43 (Jul 21, 2022)

snoopdog said:


> So, here in Oklahoma we are going on over a month with no rain, and 100 degree temps. The pastures are burnt up and ranchers are selling out, tough times. It happens every so often, we've sold out twice, and may have to do so again. But my rant is about the price gouging hay marketeers. Our hay production cost has went up for sure, fert at 1k per ton, and fuel at 5 a gallon, but these guys asking 100 a bale, just really irk me. Wasn't too long ago they were burnt up and begging for hay and we sent semi loads there way, reasonably priced, because it was the right thing to do. Is this where we're at now as a society, dog eat dog, win at any cost? I don't like it.


Growing up on a farm that we did nothing but hay, I don't see how it couldn't be 100 dollars a bale  with fertilizer going up 5 time and diesel 2-3 times?  Equipment cost are up 30 percent and everyone has their hand out for increased rent as well.


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## Firebrick43 (Jul 21, 2022)

Provincial said:


> Low levels in Lake Mead are not due to Climate Change, or whatever you want to call it.
> 
> I checked the government websites, and precipitation in the Colorado River Basin (where Lake Meade water comes from) is about 90% normal this water year (since Oct. 1st.) so the low level of the lake can only be caused by two things:
> 1. - Release of too much water past the dam during the peak run-off period.
> ...


Don't forget that Las Vegas is 82 times large than it was in 1950.  82 times. 35000 vs 2.8 million.   And it isn't slowing, last year when I drove through there they were laying out streets and starting construction up the northern slope.

Last I had been there in 2002 the speedway was well outside of town, and it only had 1.4 million people.  There isn't a water issue, there is an issue with to much population exist in a place where it shouldn't.  

But yes also to california.  Wife is from riverside CA, a place now called menifee.  It was semi rural in 2002 when we were married, and now is solid city as far as you can see.  All the water comes from the aquaduct.


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## snoopdog (Jul 21, 2022)

Firebrick43 said:


> Growing up on a farm that we did nothing but hay, I don't see how it couldn't be 100 dollars a bale  with fertilizer going up 5 time and diesel 2-3 times?  Equipment cost are up 30 percent and everyone has their hand out for increased rent as well.


Fertilizer costs tripled since last spring, from 330/ton to 1000/ ton, I don't know where you get your figures, but those are mine. Equipment cost isn't a variable, you buy a baler for 40k and bale 10k bale with it , your per bale cost is 4$ per bale minus depreciation and trade in.Yes, lease or rent prices are up, here because the mary j industry has driven purchase price up.IMO


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## snoopdog (Jul 21, 2022)

Eyerelief said:


> @snoopdog I can feel your pain here in Texas.  Seems like these triple digit temps are never going to end.  The tanks (ponds) are drying up, the grass is gone.  We will be burning pear (cactus) before to long just to try to keep things moving.  Critters are getting lean.  And it aint even August yet.  As far as the hay goes, for some folks its a world where I scratch your back, wait a minute, what are you doing to my back?


Since I posted, we got 8 tenths in one good shower, a good cool off tonight, but the temps are still triple digits during the day. Good chance of some more rain the next few days. Texas is our first disowned cousin(haha) it is summer after all.


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## woodchucker (Jul 21, 2022)

higgite said:


> With all due respect, I think you mean the problem is getting everyone to pull in the direction that you want them to pull.
> 
> Tom


so you think there is no warming? Regardless of how it's occurring.


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## higgite (Jul 21, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> so you think there is no warming? Regardless of how it's occurring.


How did you wring that conclusion out of what I posted?

Tom


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## Firebrick43 (Jul 21, 2022)

snoopdog said:


> Fertilizer costs tripled since last spring, from 330/ton to 1000/ ton, I don't know where you get your figures, but those are mine. Equipment cost isn't a variable, you buy a baler for 40k and bale 10k bale with it , your per bale cost is 4$ per bale minus depreciation and trade in.Yes, lease or rent prices are up, here because the mary j industry has driven purchase price up.IMO


Fall of 20 fertilizer was 230 a ton here.  Now a 1000, so 5 times since the markets were put in disarray.  Well, most are taught to allot for what the equipment is going to cost to replace in the future, not what you spent for it years ago.  And there is tractors, rakes, tedder, drills, tillage equipment, propionic acid, twine, seed(alfalfa is out of this world), herbicides and labor to add all to that, all requiring maintenance, replacement parts, and eventual replacement. Every thing listed has price increases of 30 percent, or more.


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## woodchucker (Jul 21, 2022)

higgite said:


> How did you wring that conclusion out of what I posted?
> 
> Tom


clearly you took exception to the statement, so it acts like you disagree whole heartedly. I still feel that way. You feel that there is no problem. I also believe that based on things I have seen from you in the past.

I look at it this way.. the nay sayers, if they are wrong we are screwed.
The people who want to do something, if they are wrong, we probably made the planet a better place, more energy efficient, less polluting, and at least we tried to do the right thing.

I'd like to be on the side that tries to do the right thing.


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## 7milesup (Jul 21, 2022)

Provincial said:


> Low levels in Lake Mead are not due to Climate Change, or whatever you want to call it.
> 
> I checked the government websites, and precipitation in the Colorado River Basin (where Lake Meade water comes from) is about 90% normal this water year (since Oct. 1st.) so the low level of the lake can only be caused by two things:
> 1. - Release of too much water past the dam during the peak run-off period.
> ...


What government websites?  I can assure you that it is because of climate change.


			https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article263699503.html
		

I could add another 100 links to peer-reviewed studies and white papers from real scientists, not some guy using bar logic to defend why lake mead is just about gone. 

I don't know where you are getting your info from, but it is drastically wrong.  One of my kids is a federal attorney specializing in Native American water rights and has extensively studied these issues.  She probably knows more about climate and water than all of us combined.  Sure, there is water being taken that shouldn't be, but it's climate change pal, not some dreamed-up crap.


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## Eyerelief (Jul 21, 2022)

snoopdog said:


> Since I posted, we got 8 tenths in one good shower, a good cool off tonight, but the temps are still triple digits during the day. Good chance of some more rain the next few days. Texas is our first disowned cousin(haha) it is summer after all.



Disowned or not could you spare a guy a couple tenths?  I mean you got 8 of them. I just want to show my son what rain looks like. He’s only 30 years old and ain’t never seen it before


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## Eyerelief (Jul 21, 2022)

Just can’t remember it raining since he was born.


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## higgite (Jul 21, 2022)

woodchucker said:


> clearly you took exception to the statement, so it acts like you disagree whole heartedly. I still feel that way. You feel that there is no problem. I also believe that based on things I have seen from you in the past.
> 
> I look at it this way.. the nay sayers, if they are wrong we are screwed.
> The people who want to do something, if they are wrong, we probably made the planet a better place, more energy efficient, less polluting, and at least we tried to do the right thing.
> ...


Spin it however you want. I know what you meant and you know what you meant by "getting everyone to pull in the same direction".

Tom


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## Eyerelief (Jul 21, 2022)

Here is our July so far. June wasn’t any cooler.


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## westerner (Jul 21, 2022)

Global warming, or climate change or any other phrase currently in vogue, I do not care. 
Irrefutable evidence is this-
Less than 10,000 years ago (geologically a couple minutes ago) the Great Lakes were being dug by a glacier over a thousand feet thick over modern Ohio. Where did that go? How did humans make that happen?


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## snoopdog (Jul 22, 2022)

Firebrick43 said:


> Fall of 20 fertilizer was 230 a ton here.  Now a 1000, so 5 times since the markets were put in disarray.  Well, most are taught to allot for what the equipment is going to cost to replace in the future, not what you spent for it years ago.  And there is tractors, rakes, tedder, drills, tillage equipment, propionic acid, twine, seed(alfalfa is out of this world), herbicides and labor to add all to that, all requiring maintenance, replacement parts, and eventual replacement. Every thing listed has price increases of 30 percent, or more.


true


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## Janderso (Jul 22, 2022)

snoopdog said:


> So, here in Oklahoma we are going on over a month with no rain, and 100 degree temps. The pastures are burnt up and ranchers are selling out, tough times. It happens every so often, we've sold out twice, and may have to do so again. But my rant is about the price gouging hay marketeers. Our hay production cost has went up for sure, fert at 1k per ton, and fuel at 5 a gallon, but these guys asking 100 a bale, just really irk me. Wasn't too long ago they were burnt up and begging for hay and we sent semi loads there way, reasonably priced, because it was the right thing to do. Is this where we're at now as a society, dog eat dog, win at any cost? I don't like it.


I don’t know what you call it but when you see what’s happening on the Colorado river and Lake Mead!
In northern Ca, and the entire west/southwest we are going on a 20+ year drought.
We are having a heat wave that is over 100 f, for weeks.
Hay has been a huge problem here as well. Getting it and the price.
Sorry about your pastures and lack of rain.


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## 7milesup (Jul 22, 2022)

westerner said:


> Global warming, or climate change or any other phrase currently in vogue, I do not care.
> Irrefutable evidence is this-
> Less than 10,000 years ago (geologically a couple minutes ago) the Great Lakes were being dug by a glacier over a thousand feet thick over modern Ohio. Where did that go? How did humans make that happen?


An extraordinarily simplistic and incorrect, view.  It is a waste of my time to try and convince the climate deniers, but I will provide a link in case anyone wants to gander over a NASA article.









						Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?
					

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.




					climate.nasa.gov
				




And in case no one wants to read this but would rather look at a picture here is one, even in color for the fake news watchers.



The last glacier to form the Great Lakes was a mile thick, not a 1000ft.

As a professional pilot, it amazed me how thin our atmosphere really is.  At 18,000ft nearly half of our useable atmosphere is below you.  It only takes about 9 minutes to get to that point.  At 40,000 ft the time of useful consciousness is about 10 seconds.  

@woodchucker had an excellent point.  If the people that believe in the science of climate change are wrong, we will still have made a positive impact on the earth.  If the climate deniers are wrong and we continue on our present path, life as you know it will cease.


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## Cadillac (Jul 22, 2022)

The problem with lake Meade will only make the drought problems worse. The lake puts moisture in the air which in short time will no longer  exasperating the problem. 
 Dust bowl we created just saw a modern marvels on it. If I remember correctly they didn’t get rain for months maybe yrs? I do know we intensified the problem by stripping all the land bare. 
 So back in the 80’s it was all about aerosols was killing the ozone. Stopped producing aqua net hair sprays and so on. Did the ozone recover? You don’t here about it anymore. Theyve moved on to something else. 
 When people say we’re warming up the earth. My understanding is if we raised the temp by 2-3 degrees we’d be in trouble. So how much have we raised and what’s the optimal temp then? 
 I learned a interesting thing acouple weeks ago. Trees and plants take the carbon out of the co2 right. What is all the material/mass of a plant or tree? It is all the carbon taken out of the air. Did not know that basic and interesting.


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## 7milesup (Jul 22, 2022)

Cadillac said:


> The problem with lake Meade will only make the drought problems worse. The lake puts moisture in the air which in short time will no longer  exasperating the problem.
> Dust bowl we created just saw a modern marvels on it. If I remember correctly they didn’t get rain for months maybe yrs? I do know we intensified the problem by stripping all the land bare.
> So back in the 80’s it was all about aerosols was killing the ozone. Stopped producing aqua net hair sprays and so on. Did the ozone recover? You don’t here about it anymore. Theyve moved on to something else.
> When people say we’re warming up the earth. My understanding is if we raised the temp by 2-3 degrees we’d be in trouble. So how much have we raised and what’s the optimal temp then?
> I learned a interesting thing acouple weeks ago. Trees and plants take the carbon out of the co2 right. What is all the material/mass of a plant or tree? It is all the carbon taken out of the air. Did not know that basic and interesting.



Yes, the ozone did "recover", but not completely.  It recovered enough that we averted disaster.  
You are also correct that trees and plants take carbon out, but it is not "all" carbon.  Another fun fact is that as climate change is occurring, the permafrost in our Earth's Northern regions is thawing.  Guess what that area is made up of... yep, plant matter.  As the permafrost melts, it releases more carbon into the atmosphere.  The oceans are one of the largest carbon "sinks" on our planet but are warming at an alarming rate.  Guess what happens when the oceans warm up... yep, they emit that carbon back into the atmosphere.


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## vtcnc (Jul 23, 2022)

Notice to all participants in this thread.

Way too many instances of some members breaking the NO POLITICS rule. For the record, here it is:

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For the record, here is the link to all of our rules.

In addition, one member has been asked to take a break from the forum for two weeks. That is a nice way of saying he has been temporarily banned due to ongoing activity that has broke the rule cited above repeatedly.

Please. Each of you have contributed to the purpose of this forum, HOBBY MACHINING, many, many times, in many meaningful ways. That is our purpose here.

I will repeat this again. This site is not a place to discuss your political ideology, or any governmental policy topics not related to machining. Unfortunately, the scientific study of Climate Change has been so politicized that there is no meaningful way to talk about it without the discussion devolving into controversial, inflammatory, divisive or derogatory manners.

You may think this is censorship. It is not, its a rule on THIS website forum. You can go to at least 1,000 other websites and debate Climate Change to your heart's content. Don't do it here. We are here to talk about making chips.

This thread will remain locked.


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