# New to me MFB



## omni_dilletante (Apr 17, 2014)

I have been looking for an Atlas Horizontal mill for some time.  One showed up on Craigslist this weekend and I picked it up last night.  It is an MFB and I think it shows potential. 

I don't think I have seen a chain drive on any of these.  Is this normal?

It is missing the table feed lever and throw out yoke (Part numbers: MF-16, MI-63, MF-15). I figure these are exceedingly rare.  So far Google has not lead me to a description of how to fabricate these.  Found a couple of drawings on the Atlas Yahoo group.  I would appreciate hearing from anyone that has done this.  (Or does anyone have one near Portland Oregon that would let me measure it and take some pictures?)

Hope to post more pictures after I take it apart, clean it up and move it to the basement.


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## wa5cab (Apr 17, 2014)

Omni-,

No, chain drive is definitely not normal.  That makes it a 4-speed machine.  It originally had a 2-step pulley on the spindle and the countershaft and 8 speeds.  M1-79CX and M1-80B.

Robert D.


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## cjtoombs (Apr 17, 2014)

Early ones had a 4 speed change pulley on the spindle, they were 16 speeds. Your machine is early; it doesn't have the provisions for the outboard brace. I don't know when the outboard brace was introduced in relation to the pulley changes, so I can't say for sure whether yours came with the 4 or 2 pulley setup. Someone must have been planning on doing some heavy duty cutting with that chain drive. One problem with the 2 pulley setup was that the belt was hard to source, so that may be why this one was modded. I expect that provisions for back gear were also removed when doing the chain drive, so you may only have 2 speeds on that mill. There are always parts on eBay for these, though most are asking three arms and a leg for them. If you are patient, you can wait and the parts you need will come up on auction with a low starting bid. They don't tend to go that high if you can catch them like that. I bought several small parts including a 1" arbor and a new overarm support reasonably like that. What size arbor and tools did you wind up with? Nice that it came with that many cutters.

PS.  I have modeled the 4 speed change pulley as well as the other spindle parts, if you have a way to view them.  They are not complete, as I did not bother with some of the details, but they should get you in the ballpark.


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## omni_dilletante (Apr 17, 2014)

Wa5cab - The chain drive has two sprockets, I assume they provide the same ratios as the original.  What I don't like about it is that it is noisy.

The back gear is present and in good shape.  The back gear was engaged when I got it and I managed with some effort to disengage.  Now that I think about it I need to see if the chain conversion allows me to not use the back gear.  That would be a bummer.

cjtoombs - I would like to see your pulley/spindle mods.


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## VSAncona (Apr 17, 2014)

Nice find. You got the vise with it -- that's a big plus.

I think the outboard brace first appeared around 1947-48, so your machine pre-dates that.

Seems like a few of these machines have popped up on this board lately.


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## omni_dilletante (Apr 17, 2014)

VSAncona said:


> I think the outboard brace first appeared around 1947-48, so your machine pre-dates that.



I am curious what it would take to add the outboard brace.  Is it a matter of changing the Cross Slide Screw MI-36 for a MI-66, the Cross Slide Screw Bearing MI-33 for a MI-67 and the Arbor Support MI-8 for MI-60?  Or is there more to it?


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## cjtoombs (Apr 17, 2014)

omni_dilletante said:


> I am curious what it would take to add the outboard brace. Is it a matter of changing the Cross Slide Screw MI-36 for a MI-66, the Cross Slide Screw Bearing MI-33 for a MI-67 and the Arbor Support MI-8 for MI-60? Or is there more to it?




I think that is the only difference.  I have thought about just machining a tapered clamp that would go on the current tapered cross slide screw bearing and fabricating the rest of the parts.  It's a low priority project, though.


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## VSAncona (Apr 17, 2014)

omni_dilletante said:


> I am curious what it would take to add the outboard brace.  Is it a matter of changing the Cross Slide Screw MI-36 for a MI-66, the Cross Slide Screw Bearing MI-33 for a MI-67 and the Arbor Support MI-8 for MI-60?  Or is there more to it?



That's the way I understand it as well. My mill is an MFC, so I haven't had to do to make the swap. But I've read threads on other forums from people who have done it.


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## wa5cab (Apr 18, 2014)

Atlas built 12 models of horizontal mills, M1 through MHC.  They first appeared in the 1941 catalog (probably printed late 1940) as the 16-speed (4-step spindle pulley) M1, MF and MH.  In the 1943 catalogs, they are still called M1, MF and MH but are 12-speed (3-step pulley).  Atlas later retroactively renamed these M1A, MFA and MHA but the "A" does not appear on nameplates so they are only identifiable by serial number.  The M1B, MFB and MHB came out in 1945 and are 8-speed machines with 2-step pulleys.  The M1C, MFC and MHC appear around (or by) 1948 and are also 8-speed.  To date, no one has turned up a 1942, 1944 or 1947 catalog, so the exact transition dates are a little iffy.

Although there are several other parts that are different, the only significant difference between the B and C models is the outboard stay or bar (and the lack of overarm guard that adding it required).  Of course, the cross feed screw and bearing changed as well but only because adding the bar required lengthening them slightly.

Robert D.


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## VSAncona (Apr 18, 2014)

wa5cab said:


> The M1C, MFC and MHC appear around (or by) 1948 and are also 8-speed.  To date, no one has turned up a 1942, 1944 or 1947 catalog, so the exact transition dates are a little iffy.



I haven't seen any catalogs from those years either, but the parts lists can help us narrow it down a little. The Milling Machine Bulletin (MMB-2) parts price list shows the MFB model and is dated January 1947. The revised parts list showing the MFC model (MMB-3) is dated March 1948. So it's probably safe to say that the MFC was introduced in early 1948.


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## wa5cab (Apr 19, 2014)

OK.  Thanks.  I have MMB-1 and MMB-3 but not the -2.  So that tightens the intro date down some.

Robert D.


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## Moderatemixed (Jan 2, 2020)

Has anyone else ever seen the chain drive? I just acquired one of these MFB mills and mine too is chain drive. I just can’t seem to find any information.

Regards all.

Derek. 


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## wa5cab (Jan 2, 2020)

There probably isn't any, as all of the mills came from the factory with belt drives.  If yours already has chain drive and it was well done, I can't see any particular reason to change it back.  But I have to wonder why anyone would have gone to the trouble to convert it.

Did yours also end up with the chain a little too slack?  If so, there is a fairly simple fix if the tension adjustment has the enough range to let you still change speeds.


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## Moderatemixed (Jan 2, 2020)

I pick it up in a couple of weeks (when the seller and my schedules align). I’ll get back to you but from the pics I have received it looks really well done. As for slack, I will let you know, and may pick your brain regarding the fix.

Derek


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## JPMacG (Jan 2, 2020)

When I purchased my MFC there were parts included for a chain drive: the chain, a sprocket for the spindle and a sprocket for the  countershaft.  I don't know the story behind them and always wondered why someone would want a chain.  There was only one sprocket diameter - so only one speed I guess.


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## wa5cab (Jan 2, 2020)

OK.  So yours may be a 4-speed machine if the back gears still work.  2-speed motor pulley and 2-speed back gear.  The machine that started this thread had quite a few photos, at least two of which showed two sprockets on the countershaft.  But none of the photos show what's on the spindle.  So I can't say for certain whether or not the back gears still work and whether or not there are two working sprockets on the spindle.  And I can't say whether it is a 2-speed, 4-speed or 8-speed machine.


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## Moderatemixed (Jan 4, 2020)

It appears as though it will be 2 speed and that the back gears will still be operational. This pic from the seller, more to come when I pick it up.

Cheers. 


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## Moderatemixed (Jan 4, 2020)

Another pic.....


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## wa5cab (Jan 5, 2020)

OK.  2 speeds with the chain drive times 2 speeds with the motor belt times 2 speeds with the back gears is 8 speeds total, same as the MFB and MFC were originally.  Someone in Canada or the Northern or Northwester US must have done several of them.  It;s rather surprising that outside of these two, no one seems to have mentioned them.


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## Moderatemixed (Jan 5, 2020)

I agree, but from the pics it looks as though it has been done pretty well. Once the machine is through the door I’ll make some proper measurements and maybe even a video. Any thoughts as to what the motivation might have been? I haven’t read any post that has indicated that the original design was lacking in “torque” or that the belts slip. I’ve never used nor have I had a horizontal mill so I have no frame of reference on which to draw. Any thoughts?

Derek


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## Ulma Doctor (Jan 5, 2020)

chain drive is a noisy system that may impart vibrations into the work
i can't imagine why someone would desecrate that machine like that


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## wa5cab (Jan 5, 2020)

The only thing that I can think of would be that the chain can be replaced without pulling the back gears and spindle.  But aside from less torque transfer capability, the same thing could have been accomplished with a link belt (as much as I dislike saying it).

Derek, I would not run it with the chain that slack.  Even if it means having to loosen the tension adjustment as well as move the tension arm in order to change the sprockets that the chain rides on.


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