# Martini Shaker



## matthewsx (May 1, 2022)

I have a family heirloom silver martini shaker I want to bring back to life. It's base appears to be soldered and there's a small gap between it and body, I basically want opinions on how best to repair it or should I just leave it alone until it breaks which may not be in my lifetime. I plan on polishing it up but if I need to solder it I don't know if it makes sense to do that before or wait until after I've repaired it. I do have an oxy acetylene rig but my torch is on the large side, this may be an excuse to buy that small torch I've wanted for a while.

So, who here has worked on antique silver?


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Thanks,

John


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## Aukai (May 1, 2022)

I'm not able to open any of the links, I do not have permission...
Get some opinions first, sometimes messing with patina ruins the value of the object.


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## Aaron_W (May 1, 2022)

It might be worth searching silver jewelry repair for options. Somebody repairing a silver broach or watch case will probably offer you more finesse than what is needed on your shaker, but I don't see that as a bad thing.


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## matthewsx (May 1, 2022)

I’ve looked at the Smith mini torch set and it’s tempting. I have plenty of non-heirloom pieces I could practice with.


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## matthewsx (May 1, 2022)

Aukai said:


> I'm not able to open any of the links, I do not have permission...
> Get some opinions first, sometimes messing with patina ruins the value of the object.


Okay, I’ll check the links. They’re from this site so I thought they would work.

Good idea to check on value, similar shakers are maybe a few hundred bucks online but I’ll never sell mine. Pretty sure it’s okay to polish silver though, that was the original intent after all. 

Thanks,

John


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## 7milesup (May 1, 2022)

I don't really have an answer for you, but personally, I would shy away from the Oxy/acetylene setup.  If you are looking at silver soldering (a really neat process that if done correctly will hardly be noticed) I have had good luck with a small butane torch *like this one here.*

*EDIT:*  I should qualify my response by saying that the butane torch has better temp control that the oxy/acetylene setup in my opinion.  I have one of those Bernz-o-Matic setups and it goes through those small oxy tanks like no tomorrow.  I thought it would be a great tool to have but not really.


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## matthewsx (May 1, 2022)

I changed the view permissions on my album, could someone confirm they can see my pictures?

John


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## FOMOGO (May 1, 2022)

There are some very low temp solders available. Check you tube, or online search. Mike


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## matthewsx (May 1, 2022)

7milesup said:


> I don't really have an answer for you, but personally, I would shy away from the Oxy/acetylene setup.  If you are looking at silver soldering (a really neat process that if done correctly will hardly be noticed) I have had good luck with a small butane torch like *like this one here.*



That's a nice little unit but it's well along the way to the cost of a Smith Little Torch which is used by all kinds of jewelers and can work with butane too if oxy-acetylene is too hot.

https://www.amazon.com/Smith-Little-Torch-Soldering-Welding/dp/B000T43L30?th=1

Edit: because I think the first link I posted may be a scam site.


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## Nutfarmer (May 1, 2022)

The Smith mini torch works great on small items such as silver work. Easier to control the heat than with what we normally would use on an oxygen acetylene torch. It's the only heat at my jewelers  bench.


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## 7milesup (May 1, 2022)

Yep, we can see the pictures now John.   It looks like if you rub that thing (the martini shaker that is), a Genie most likely will come out and any further issues will be alleviated 

That link to the one at Walmart is a heck of a deal.  When you mentioned that torch set I did a quick Google search with the results being almost double the Walmart one.

EDIT:  I see now that is not Walmart.  I saw the symbol at the top of the page and thought is was Walmart's logo.  Not sure who that seller is.


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## 7milesup (May 1, 2022)

Nutfarmer said:


> The Smith mini torch works great on small items such as silver work. Easier to control the heat than with what we normally would use on an oxygen acetylene torch. It's the only heat at my jewelers  bench.


That is great info.  Thank you!


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## Aukai (May 1, 2022)

My mother had a kid that would polish all of her silver 
If you're not going to sell it, however you want to display it will be fine.


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## Nutfarmer (May 1, 2022)

Now that the pictures are up , the joint looks like it may be soft solder. Try to figure out what solder was used and match it. Lead type  solders and hard silver don't mix well. Hopefully some one with more experience can advise. Easy to ruin the value of a piece with a bad repair job.


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## Aaron_W (May 1, 2022)

I have a small butane torch like 7 miles posted. It works great soldering brass, I think I paid half that much at Home Depot a few years ago. Don't recall the brand but one of the common ones Bernzomatic, Weller etc. Very handy for small projects, but I have never tried to silver solder with it.


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## matthewsx (May 1, 2022)

As I get further into the metal working hobby I'm more and more interested in some of the finer, more intricate techniques. I'll probably always have a small shop from here on out so building skills in these areas are starting to appeal to me.

I've been researching guilloche work and may start a new project building an ornamental lathe. Just looking for challenges the meet my interest and space.

I know the best approach if I want this thing repaired is probably to find a silversmith who knows how to do it and pay to get it done. As stated above it seems pretty solid so I may just leave it be. But now that I have a kiln it opens up some possibilities for what I can do with different metals.

John


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## Aaron_W (May 1, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> As I get further into the metal working hobby I'm more and more interested in some of the finer, more intricate techniques. I'll probably always have a small shop from here on out so building skills in these areas are starting to appeal to me.
> 
> I've been researching guilloche work and may start a new project building an ornamental lathe. Just looking for challenges the meet my interest and space.
> 
> ...



Understand completely. All I needed was a small lathe, somehow over the past 7 years that need has grown well beyond my expectations.


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## C-Bag (May 1, 2022)

Nice piece John. If it was still solid I would leave it be. How do you tell if it’s silver or soft solder? It being outside and not in the ”drink” it could be either. +1 on the mini torch. I bought a Meco mini and is the stuff for welding, brazing and soldering aluminum. Pretty pricey compared to the Smith knockoffs. But works really good.


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## C-Bag (May 1, 2022)

I’ve always tended towards the small range of all my work but this guy Wes who does band instrument repair is fascinating. He also is a wizard at taking a crushed tuba or anything else and with it cool tools and experience making them new again. As far as I’m concerned this is the epitome of “right work” putting more music in the world. He uses the smith mini constantly.


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## matthewsx (May 1, 2022)

C-Bag said:


> I’ve always tended towards the small range of all my work but this guy Wes who does band instrument repair is fascinating. He also is a wizard at taking a crushed tuba or anything else and with it cool tools and experience making them new again. As far as I’m concerned this is the epitome of “right work” putting more music in the world. He uses the smith mini constantly.


I have a friend who repairs brass instruments. I’ll reach out to him and see what he thinks…..


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## addertooth (May 1, 2022)

The first questions I would ask are: What is it made of?  Silver Plate, Silver Fill, Sterling Silver, Fine Silver.
Silver plate is normally silver over brass.  Silver fill is also normally silver over brass.   Sterling is normally an alloy of 92.5% silver, with 7.5% copper.
Fine Silver is typically .99 (or better) silver.  

First step is always cleaning and inspection.   The various jewelry stores sell high quality silver polishing cloths, which restore a wonderful luster.  They also place a very fine film on the surface which reduces the rate tarnish re-forms. 

That would determine my "treatment of an area which may need silver-soldered/brazed.  Ideally the donor material for the solder/braze needs to match the composition of the silver the object is made of, so you don't get a difference in color.  

I restore antique fountain pens as a "side-Gig". The picture below shows two examples of the same pen (Waterman 452 Sterling Ringtop).   One had a polishing cloth taken to it.  The darker one has been left with the natural Patina.  For some people, removing patina from antiques is considered a mortal (and unforgivable) sin.


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## matthewsx (May 1, 2022)

Thank you for the insight from someone with experience. That’s what I love about this place….

The shaker needs some cork on the lid, think I’ll start there and use it as/is for now. Definitely know that what’s there now won’t come back easily. There’s something to be said for leaving well enough alone. 

Think I’ll make a few batches and see how I feel after


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## MikeInOr (May 2, 2022)

Take it to a jeweler that knows what they are doing!  They will have the correct low melting point silver solder so the rest of the shaker doesn't fall apart while repairing the hole.  They will also have the correct torch so the silver doesn't get overheated and burn holes into the silver.  For silver I believe they usually use an acetylene / air torch.  Not an acetylene / oxygen torch which would be WAY too hot!  They will also have the correct flux to use and the correct pickeling for silver.  They should be able to do that repair in way under an hour.

The last class I had to take in college was an art class so I took "metal working".  It turned out to be a jewelry making class instead.  It was actually a fun class and I learned a good bit.  We used primarily silver in the class.  I burned a few holes in silver trying to use my fathers oxy-acetylene torch at home!


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## C-Bag (May 2, 2022)

Wes the instrument tech uses an oxy gen and acetylene for his micro Smith. I had my smallest tip on my usual OA rig and couldn’t throttle it back enough to do Alumaweld without damage. I tried my plumbers acetylene/air torch and it wouldn’t get hot enough. When I broke out the Meco prob solved. Definitely you need to pay attention with the little torches but keeping a distance and awareness once things are to temp it goes fast. Wes and Tinman are masters. Wes with thin brass and solder and Tinman with as thin as .035 aluminum brazing and gas welding.


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## woodchucker (May 2, 2022)

matthewsx said:


> That's a nice little unit but it's well along the way to the cost of a Smith Little Torch which is used by all kinds of jewelers and can work with butane too if oxy-acetylene is too hot.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Smith-Little-Torch-Soldering-Welding/dp/B000T43L30?th=1
> 
> Edit: because I think the first link I posted may be a scam site.


That is way over priced for the unit. I have one looks similar, I have seen them for about $10..  
I would not think you need oxy/acet. Most jewlery people get by with oxy/propane I have watched one on and off on youtube.
I'm not saying it wouldn't work..
I was unable to see the broken solder joint. I see a solder joint, but it didn't appear damaged.

I would use a Harris lower temp silver solder.  She looks beautiful, and I would not worry about the patina, silver should always be cleaned and kept in a wrap to prevent it from getting to that point.  There are anti ox cloths for it to wrap it in when not showing it off.

Very nice..


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## Ken from ontario (May 2, 2022)

If you do decide to go with Smith little torch just be aware of the Chinese copy of this torch ,  these fake ones can be bought for under $25 ,there are a couple of ways to tell them apart, the genuine torch has / red and green knobs and the red(Acetylene) knob is always on the left side, the fake ones sometimes are placed on the opposite side but the best way is to look at the green (Oxygen) knob, the Chinese ones are a light blue or light green color and also do not have the manufacturer's name on the body of the torch.


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