# Craftsman Commercial Lathe?



## ACHiPo (Feb 11, 2017)

I've made an appointment to look at a 12 x 36 Craftsman Commercial (Atlas) lathe tomorrow.  I've watched TubalCain's videos on what to look for, so I feel like I'm reasonably prepared, but thought I'd ask this forum for additional guidance on what to look for in the lathe and tooling.  I'm attaching the photos I have (or will as soon as I can get Photobucket to cooperate).  The most concerning is one with a Zamac gear on the ways, suggesting there is or was a broken gear, so I'll definitely crawl through the gearbox carefully.

The seller is asking $1200 which seems fair in this region assuming no gear damage.


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## Charles Spencer (Feb 12, 2017)

I see you have a face plate 3 and 4 jaw chucks, lantern tool post, milling attachment, and steady rest among other things.  I'd ask if there were any additional tool holders for the lantern post as I see only one.  I'd say it looks like it comes with enough to get you started.

I can't really comment on the prices in your area.  I did check out craigslist in your area and saw this.  I might check the Logan out before I committed to buy:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/5998535571.html


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## larry4406 (Feb 12, 2017)

I think that is a pretty good deal at $1200.  Milling attachment is $400-500 on ebay, QCGB is about $400, steady rest $200 or so, 4-jaw chuck $150-200.


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## ACHiPo (Feb 12, 2017)

Charles Spencer said:


> I see you have a face plate 3 and 4 jaw chucks, lantern tool post, milling attachment, and steady rest among other things.  I'd ask if there were any additional tool holders for the lantern post as I see only one.  I'd say it looks like it comes with enough to get you started.
> 
> I can't really comment on the prices in your area.  I did check out craigslist in your area and saw this.  I might check the Logan out before I committed to buy:
> 
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/5998535571.html


Thanks.  I made arrangements to look at this lathe before I look at the Craftsman.  The Logan has V-ways, not sure if they're hardened?  I'm assuming that it is quite a bit smaller if it is really "8x16"

Correction:  just found the 816 model--it is a 10" swing
QC Gearbox
Distance between centers: 31"
Bed length: 50 
Spindle nose: 1-1/2"-8 x #3 M.T. 
Spindle bore: 25/32 
Std Tailstock 
Flat Belt Bench   
Weight: 475


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## eeler1 (Feb 12, 2017)

I'd prefer the Logan, all else equal.    But, tooling and condition may not be equal.


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## intjonmiller (Feb 12, 2017)

I think the serial number on the Logans ends in an H if they are hardened. Something like that. You can look it up, I think it's in the FAQs at lathe.com. 

In theory the v- ways are better but plenty of good work has been done on Atlas flat ways. I am partial to Logan because it's what I have and because that's my son's name, but one with a steady rest and a milling attachment for only $1200 (incredible deal for my area, I don't know about yours) would have me running not walking to buy it if I were in the market. Don't worry about more lantern tool holders as they're frustrating to use anyway. Again, plenty of good work has been done with them, but there's a reason they've been entirely replaced. 

BTW, keep in mind that, worst case scenario, non-hardened ways can be re-scraped. Hardened ways cannot. In most cases, at least as far as I've seen, this category of lathe usually hasn't had enough use to wear out the ways. Such examples certainly exist, but they are the exception.

Edit: I hadn't actually looked at the Logan before. It has a steady rest as well. How important is the milling attachment to you? Personally, even though I have a "small" round column mill, there are times I would love to have that on my lathe since the lathe has some indexing ability built-in (by counting bull gear teeth, for instance), so the combination can do some things that require a bit more equipment to do on the mill. But that's a rare use case, so I don't think I would make it the main reason for deciding, but it is a consideration.

Really it seems to me that you're in a very fortunate position to have two strong options available at the same time and at comparable prices. That's a problem to have.


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## mikey (Feb 12, 2017)

The logan is pretty well tooled - looks like a 3 and 4 jaw, faceplate, steady rest, follow rest, drill chuck. It also has V-ways and QCGB. Logan still has some parts support, which is valuable. Just looking at the holes in the QCGB, it looks like the lathe has not seen a lot of use. I would take a very good look at this lathe.


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## Kroll (Feb 12, 2017)

I have that lathe minus the cabinet which I paid 800 few yrs ago,but its a good lathe.Just have to take small cuts,I don't see nothing on these lathe what makes them worthy of being called "Commerical"but it sounds good.Yours is a good package deal,well worth the 1200.If it does need a part which can be found on auction site and some parts are new at a fair price unlike Clausing but that's another story.Good luck and post some pics when you bring it home----kroll


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## intjonmiller (Feb 12, 2017)

As far as I can tell, Craftsman put "commercial" on the version of a tool with one outstanding feature, like my 6" jointer which has a slightly longer bed than their standard model.


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## pstemari (Feb 12, 2017)

The Atlas/Craftsman 12" is a 12" lathe by courtesy only.  While you can do decent work on it, it's about as rigid as a wet noodle. 

Given the choice between it and a Logan, I would grab the Logan, no questions asked. The Logans have much better construction and Logan still makes parts for them.


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## ACHiPo (Feb 13, 2017)

Thanks for all the input!  I looked at the Logan first, and was pretty sure it's what I wanted--well-tooled, kept well-oiled, no rust, was fully operational before the owner's health declined about 10 years ago, so it's a bit like a time capsule.  I was the first to look at it and the seller agreed to hold it for me until I looked at the Craftsman.

The Craftsman did have a broken gear--reverse.  It was in a much more abandoned state, but still a good deal for the asking price.  I passed, however, as I really didn't want that much of a project.

I called the seller of the Logan and told him I'd take it for his asking price.  He also has some other tools from his dad that he's going to dig up for me to buy if I want when I pick up the lathe next weekend.

Woohoo I got a lathe!


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## mikey (Feb 13, 2017)

Congratulations! 

In keeping with the tradition here at HM, we totally expect pictures and a follow up when you get her home!


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## ACHiPo (Feb 13, 2017)

That won't be a problem.  Here's a pic I snapped yesterday.



Now I just need to decide whether to keep the massive (if clunky) home-build bench or disassemble the lathe to get it home.  I thought disassembly would make the most sense as I don't really want the bench, but I do like the idea of keeping everything assembled and in working order until I get a chance to go through it and clean it up.  Any suggestions on how to get it home when I don't have a truck or engine hoist would be greatly appreciated.

I just ordered the manual.  Most accessories are pretty obvious, but there are a few that I don't recognize.  Any idea what the cylinders/shafts are is on the right?



What about the gadget on the left above the wrench--looks like it might hold a boring bar or something?


Thanks,
Evan


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## ACHiPo (Feb 13, 2017)

Also, not shown in any of the photos is a precision keyless chuck that comes with the lathe.  I'm stoked!


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## Charles Spencer (Feb 13, 2017)

Well, the obvious question is what do you have to bring it home in?

I brought home an SB 9 in the back of my Ford Explorer.  I took off the tail stock.  I removed the rear support for the lead screw then cranked the saddle off.  I then reattached the rear support.  Since the drive belt was a flat leather belt with a pin. I removed it.  I unbolted the lathe feet from the stand.  I then unbolted the counter shaft and motor.  The heaviest component was then the bed and head stock.  Two of us were able to move it.

Of course I don't know how your counter shaft is connected.


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## intjonmiller (Feb 13, 2017)

Charles Spencer said:


> Well, the obvious question is what do you have to bring it home in?
> 
> I brought home an SB 9 in the back of my Ford Explorer.  I took off the tail stock.  I removed the rear support for the lead screw then cranked the saddle off.  I then reattached the rear support.  Since the drive belt was a flat leather belt with a pin. I removed it.  I unbolted the legs from the stand.  I then unbolted the counter shaft and motor.  The heaviest component was then the bed and head stock.  Two of us were able to move it.
> 
> Of course I don't know how your counter shaft is connected.


It's my understanding (though I confess I don't recall where I got it) that these lathes of this class were designed that way so they could be transported in the wagon-class vehicles that the salesmen often drove. The bench is another matter.


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## ACHiPo (Feb 13, 2017)

I don't have a truck, but I have an Audi A7, and while the lathe will probably fit broken down, I'm not crazy about the idea nor confident I can keep the oily bits off the interior.  I'm going to ask to see if the seller would be interested in making a few bucks to deliver the lathe and bench, as that would be the easiest.  If that doesn't work, then I'll either borrow or rent a truck, ramp, and dollies.


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## mikey (Feb 13, 2017)

That round thing above the wrench looks like a boring bar holder to me. It would replace the tool post on the compound.

I'm not sure what those bars are for. 

Again, congrats, AC! It looks like a fine lathe. Now you have to agonize over whether to do a clean up or a full resto - decisions, decisions. 

Welcome to hobby machining - it will enrich your life while making you poorer, all at the same time!


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## royesses (Feb 13, 2017)

Rent a truck with liftgate ate Lowes? Rent an engine hoist too. That lathe deserves a nice comfy safe trip to get it to a good home. I drool just looking at the photo's. Congrats on a purchase well made.

Roy


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## ACHiPo (Feb 13, 2017)

royesses said:


> Rent a truck with liftgate ate Lowes? Rent an engine hoist too. That lathe deserves a nice comfy safe trip to get it to a good home. I drool just looking at the photo's. Congrats on a purchase well made.
> 
> Roy


Lowes no longer rents lift gate-trucks (in this area anyway).  I've reserved a small U-Haul with a ramp and two furniture dollies.  I can take my floor jack to get it up onto the dollies if necessary.  The seller has a fairly steep driveway, so loading the lathe on the truck will be pretty easy.  Getting it offloaded at my shop, however, will be quite a bit more difficult, but I think with 1-2 neighbors and a rope/strap I'll be able to ease it down the ramp.  I'm estimating the lathe/bench combination to weigh 800 to 1000 lbs, so not trivial, but not a grand piano, either.


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## pstemari (Feb 13, 2017)

The large cylinder looks like a spindle for a tool post grinder. The long straight one might be a homemade boring bar, and the one with two diameters looks like a mandrel.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## kvt (Feb 13, 2017)

Ropes and pully is a good friend for unoading.   Just make sure you have it around something to hold and not your hands.  I have done many things that way.   Congrats on the purchase.


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## ACHiPo (Feb 13, 2017)

Charles Spencer said:


> Well, the obvious question is what do you have to bring it home in?
> 
> I brought home an SB 9 in the back of my Ford Explorer.  I took off the tail stock.  I removed the rear support for the lead screw then cranked the saddle off.  I then reattached the rear support.  Since the drive belt was a flat leather belt with a pin. I removed it.  I unbolted the lathe feet from the stand.  I then unbolted the counter shaft and motor.  The heaviest component was then the bed and head stock.  Two of us were able to move it.
> 
> Of course I don't know how your counter shaft is connected.


TubalCain to the rescue!





It's good to have options, and this video makes disassembly of the lathe very straight forward.


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## Chipper5783 (Feb 13, 2017)

The Logan will work out fine for you, you'll have a lot of fun with it.  I was hoping you would get that Famot machine, way harder to move and power up - but lots of authority.  Were you able to check it out?  Were there any show stoppers with it?  Regards, David


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## ACHiPo (Feb 13, 2017)

David,
I looked at the Famot, but only in passing.  It is quite a machine, and I suspect in pretty good condition, but I didn't get around to talking to the previous owner before I found the Logan.

Evan


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## woodchucker (Feb 13, 2017)

A word of advice. remove as much as possible from the lathe and bench. Lathes are top heavy.  protect your screws from straps, bring 2x4's and a hand saw to cut filler blocks.  I would not want to pull a lathe up a ramp to a 3-4 foot height. You can't securely push it, it's heavy, above you. See if you can rent a trailer.. and pickup.. easier.  Good luck.. I think the logan is a better machine than the craftsman.


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## intjonmiller (Feb 13, 2017)

Find one of these trailers if you can: 




Coincidentally that video just came out today.


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## ACHiPo (Feb 13, 2017)

woochucker said:


> A word of advice. remove as much as possible from the lathe and bench. Lathes are top heavy.  protect your screws from straps, bring 2x4's and a hand saw to cut filler blocks.  I would not want to pull a lathe up a ramp to a 3-4 foot height. You can't securely push it, it's heavy, above you. See if you can rent a trailer.. and pickup.. easier.  Good luck.. I think the logan is a better machine than the craftsman.


The pick up location is on a fairly steep driveway, so getting the lathe onto the truck will be a pretty gradual slope, maybe 1' over 12'.  Getting the lathe off the truck, however, will be ~3' over 12'.  Still looking for a liftgate truck.


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## ACHiPo (Feb 13, 2017)

intjonmiller said:


> Find one of these trailers if you can:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks very cool.  Unfortunately I don't have a hitch, but that could be easy to fix.


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## ACHiPo (Feb 13, 2017)

ACHiPo said:


> Looks very cool.  Unfortunately I don't have a hitch, but that could be easy to fix.


Move (rigging) update.  I made arrangements with a local handyman to use his truck and low-bed trailer with ramp (and a friend).  It's not as schnortzy as the hydraulic lift trailer, but the lathe isn't as heavy as a Bridgeport, either.  I'd rather not disassemble the lathe and move it, as I don't want to risk losing any pieces in transport.

A trip to Harbor Freight yesterday at lunch yielded a furniture dolly, come along, rope, tarp, towels and rags, and tie downs.

After watching the Tubalcain video on disassembling the Logan and adding up his weight estimates, I'm thinking the lathe probably weighs about 350 - 400 lbs, with most of the weight in the motor and ways at about 150 lbs each, so pulling the motor and pulley off will lower the center of gravity and significantly lighten the lathe if necessary.

The plan is to get one end of the table up onto the furniture dolly, then lift/slide the other legs using them as brakes for going down the ramp onto the trailer.  If it's too heavy to do that, I'll either pull the motor and try again, or use a set of casters for the back legs.

It seems like it should be manageable with 4 of us (including the seller), and with the low trailer getting it unloaded with 3 of us seems feasible as well.


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## ACHiPo (Feb 18, 2017)

Car's loaded with "rigging" gear.  The sky is grey but it's not raining at the moment.  Would prefer to do the move in dry weather, but that doesn't seem to be an option.

Wish me luck!


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## intjonmiller (Feb 18, 2017)

Best of luck, but also best of care and safety. No machine is worth losing a limb (or worse over). Even though this isn't an especially heavy machine it's still enough to win an unanticipated battle. Never lift it without everyone having a clear exit path in mind at every step. 

Congratulations!


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## ACHiPo (Feb 18, 2017)

A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.

But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.


Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.




I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.




Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
View attachment 253544


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## ACHiPo (Feb 18, 2017)

A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.

But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.


Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.




I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.




Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
View attachment 253544


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## intjonmiller (Feb 18, 2017)

Beautiful! Very happy for you, and glad you were able to move it without disassembling it, so you can start making chips that much sooner. 

I have a Logan 850 (same size, originally a turret but someone replaced it with a tailstock, and no QCGB). They really are good machines.


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## willthedancer (Feb 19, 2017)

Nicely done. Looks like a great setup.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


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## Kroll (Feb 19, 2017)

That is one nice lathe,well done sir.What's your plans,use as is or go through it?


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## ACHiPo (Feb 19, 2017)

Kroll said:


> That is one nice lathe,well done sir.What's your plans,use as is or go through it?


Kroll,
Thanks.  First on the agenda (after returning from vacation) is to get some wheels mounted onto the bench legs, and a 2x4 onto the tail end like the headstock end so the bench doesn't slope toward the tail ;-)  That will allow me to get it off the dollies and yet still have some mobility since I'm not sure where its permanent home will be.

After that I think I'll pull it apart and get rid of the rust and grime, but probably won't paint it before reassembly and lube.  I need to pick up some oilers and figure out lubrication.  I have a manual on order so that will help.

Not sure what my first project will be--probably just pick up some aluminum and make big pieces into small pieces initially.  I thought one of the Eagle 66 oilers could be a good first project, as would that machinist's puzzle with the nut captured by the unthreaded ends.

Any suggestions for good starter projects are welcome!

Evan


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## mikey (Feb 19, 2017)

I usually encourage new guys to make stuff that will be used all the time in the shop, things you can't buy.

Tool height setting gauge made for your specific lathe's centerline.
A good grinder table so you can grind tools properly.
Tailstock die holder until you learn to cut threads
A ball turning device so you can make your own levers, or a graver tool rest if you like doing it free hand.
A really good parting tool holder
Mount for a quick change tool post, whatever it takes.
A solid carriage stop if you cannot buy one.
A mount for a dial indicator so you can center stuff in the 4 jaw chuck
A good scissors knurler

ETC. 
Many other things to make. As you make these things, you learn many other lathe operations besides just turning and facing. Of course, you can make machinist's jacks that you'll use maybe once every two years or so or a hammer or whatever but making tools that have frequent use is better, I think.


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