# My first machine shop project! (Lots of pics)



## wildo (Mar 9, 2017)

A 6" vise is overkill for a RF45 style mill. A 4" is more appropiate for that size mill & IMO 5" max. I have a 5" GMT vise on my PM45 & it's slightly too big. Not enough Y axis travel to make use of the 5" full capacity. Better to save your money rather than getting something too big & most importantly the weight. I take my vise of the table quite often, a 6" is still light enough for me to be carried by hand but I'm glad I have a 5". I also have a 4" vise as well. I prefer the 5" though.

But those GMT 6" Premium vises are pretty nice. I'd love to have one but don't need one on my current mill. But if you plan on upgrading to a full size knee mill in the future than the 6" will be perfect.


Here's what the 5" looks like on my mill.




I couldn't even complete this cut without my bellows & DRO scale getting in the way. Not enough Y travel & the 5" vise is not even maxed out.




Here's what a 6" vise looks like on another PM45 (gt40's)
View attachment 253544


----------



## mikey (Mar 9, 2017)

Nice work and really nice shop, Wildo! I can tell that last photo took a great deal of thought.

As I went through the photos, the first thing that came to mind is that if making metal tops is a major interest, an ER chuck that allows you to work close to the chuck would be a good idea. The second thought was that this guy needs gravers. You could make almost the entire top with gravers and have a unique look. Gravers cut brass like butter and a round graver will produce a near mirror finish on curved surfaces.

Search for gravers and WR Smith.


----------



## brino (Mar 9, 2017)

That top looks great Wildo!

-brino


----------



## wildo (Mar 9, 2017)

mikey said:


> Nice work and really nice shop, Wildo! I can tell that last photo took a great deal of thought.
> 
> As I went through the photos, the first thing that came to mind is that if making metal tops is a major interest, an ER chuck that allows you to work close to the chuck would be a good idea. The second thought was that this guy needs gravers. You could make almost the entire top with gravers and have a unique look. Gravers cut brass like butter and a round graver will produce a near mirror finish on curved surfaces.
> 
> Search for gravers and WR Smith.



I appreciate the feedback! This lathe is a South Bend 9a, with a spindle bore of .750" so while the ER collets could be useful in some situations, I think my 5C set likely will do everything that the ERs can. That said, most of the stock I'll work with will likely be larger than .75" so I'll have to cut chunks off anyway. Generally speaking- at least for my first few tops- I don't want to be doing any second operations on them. This will likely mess up the center of mass and destroy the stable spins. 

Gravers... Ah yes. I'd love to get some. But, I will say, one thing that I *hated* about wood turning is catching the work and ruining the project (even worse when it explodes in your face or is ripped out of the lathe across the garage). What appeals a lot to me about metal turning is having the tool hooked to lead screws! LOL! Naturally at some point- as you pointed out- gravers will be an obvious jump for me, but for now I'm a little intimidated to be shoving a tool into spinning metal freehand. I've seen Chris at Clickspring do it on youtube, but he makes EVERYTHING look so easy!

Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## chips&more (Mar 9, 2017)

Now that’s the way a HM thread should be. With lots of pictures!!! And nice work too!!!


----------



## mikey (Mar 9, 2017)

wildo said:


> I appreciate the feedback! This lathe is a South Bend 9a, with a spindle bore of .750" so while the ER collets could be useful in some situations, I think my 5C set likely will do everything that the ERs can. That said, most of the stock I'll work with will likely be larger than .75" so I'll have to cut chunks off anyway. Generally speaking- at least for my first few tops- I don't want to be doing any second operations on them. This will likely mess up the center of mass and destroy the stable spins.
> 
> Gravers... Ah yes. I'd love to get some. But, I will say, one thing that I *hated* about wood turning is catching the work and ruining the project (even worse when it explodes in your face or is ripped out of the lathe across the garage). What appeals a lot to me about metal turning is having the tool hooked to lead screws! LOL! Naturally at some point- as you pointed out- gravers will be an obvious jump for me, but for now I'm a little intimidated to be shoving a tool into spinning metal freehand. I've seen Chris at Clickspring do it on youtube, but he makes EVERYTHING look so easy!
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!



No problem. ER collets grab non-nominal sized work so I find them useful.

A graver used in brass has to be used with a flat rake angle so it does catch if you're not paying attention. But once you're used to using the tool, it is a breeze to do and it allows you to do some neat stuff. I use gravers on almost everything that comes off my lathe - ease an edge, chamfer a hole, round a profile and so on. It is useful beyond turning tops.


----------



## wildo (Mar 9, 2017)

I definitely want to get some gravers at some point. There was more than "just rings" that I would have liked to do, and having straight tools made it very hard. Gravers are definitely in my future!


----------



## brino (Mar 10, 2017)

mikey said:


> I use gravers on almost everything that comes off my lathe - ease an edge, chamfer a hole, round a profile and so on. It is useful beyond turning tops.



hey @mikey, that sounds like it's worth it's own thread. Maybe you could answer some questions; are you referring to brass projects only? if not, what materials do you work free-hand? are they HSS tools? what shapes are the business ends? how long of handles?

Thanks!
-brino


----------



## rwm (Mar 10, 2017)

Nice! Is that still the guest room?!
Robert


----------



## wildo (Mar 10, 2017)

rwm said:


> Nice! Is that still the guest room?!
> Robert



Sure- if they want it! I have an air mattress... My dad would be in heaven to stay in that room!


----------



## BFHammer (Mar 10, 2017)

Nice work Wildo and great job with the pictures.  Impressive first project!

Keep sharing!


----------



## FOMOGO (Mar 10, 2017)

Great job on the top Wildo. I remember following your shop thread, the place has really come together nicely. Don't know if you saw the pattern making device that mounted to the compound in a recent thread, but I could see it working quite well for what you are doing. Cheers, Mike


----------



## wildo (Mar 10, 2017)

FOMOGO said:


> Great job on the top Wildo. I remember following your shop thread, the place has really come together nicely. Don't know if you saw the pattern making device that mounted to the compound in a recent thread, but I could see it working quite well for what you are doing. Cheers, Mike



I mean... I'm not telling you guys anything you don't already know, but let me just say- yesterday making that top, I felt like the real deal. The day started off with me deciding that I really wanted to turn some brass, and I really wanted to fix the small amount of play in my tailstock. Turning a little washer seemed like an easy enough thing to do. I was happy with the results. It made me feel really awesome to be able to create a part to fix my tools! During the lathe restoration, I had to buy all the parts needed to fix/replace broken stuff. So that was a huge step in the right direction. Then, while turning the top- I was really nervous about running the carriage into the chuck since some of the operations were very close. I'm still learning the controls and sometimes turn the dials the wrong way; I'm a newbie, you know. So I recalled that when I bought the lathe I also got a micrometer carriage stop. However, the way clamp didn't close quite tight enough for the 9a. I grabbed the thing, walked over to my mill, and in five mins had it milled flat and fitting onto my lathe. What an awesome feeling!! Like I said, I'm not telling you guys anything you don't already know, but it's so freakin' awesome to have the tools to accomplish the projects that I need/want to do. This is what it's all about!


----------



## Firestopper (Mar 10, 2017)

Cool top!  Very nice shop too.


----------



## mikey (Mar 10, 2017)

brino said:


> hey @mikey, that sounds like it's worth it's own thread. Maybe you could answer some questions; are you referring to brass projects only? if not, what materials do you work free-hand? are they HSS tools? what shapes are the business ends? how long of handles?
> 
> Thanks!
> -brino



Brino, this is something we should discuss in a separate thread so as not to detract from Wildo's thread. I'll start a thread and we can discuss it there if you like.


----------



## wildo (Mar 10, 2017)

mikey said:


> Brino, this is something we should discuss in a separate thread so as not to detract from Wildo's thread. I'll start a thread and we can discuss it there if you like.



Totally appreciate the thread curtesy! That's an absolute pet peeve of mine, though to be honest in this case I'm super curious as well. LOL! Please do start one if you happen to have the time. I'd love to learn more about this topic!


----------



## mikey (Mar 10, 2017)

wildo said:


> Totally appreciate the thread curtesy! That's an absolute pet peeve of mine, though to be honest in this case I'm super curious as well. LOL! Please do start one if you happen to have the time. I'd love to learn more about this topic!



Respect is something I take seriously, Wildo.


----------



## rwm (Mar 10, 2017)

Nice work on the top. I looked at that Fakebook group. Crazy expensive tops there. It looks like some of the bearings are bezel set like jewelry? Is that possible? It's an easy technique and can be adapted to the lathe or mill. I bezel set a sapphire with my mill, a stylus and a rotary table. How did you attach the bearing on this one?
Robert

Edit: Press fit I assume?


----------



## wildo (Mar 10, 2017)

rwm- I don't yet have a boring bar (although see THIS thread as it relates directly to your question for a .1875" ruby bearing) so on this particular top, I drilled to the same size and super glued it in place. While today I got a 10 min 15 sec spin on my top, those super pricey ones are spinning 18, 19, 20 mins. To get these kind of ridiculous spin times, you really need the utmost in precision. The bearing hole must be bored exact. So yes, in the future the ball bearing hole (no matter the material choice- stainless, ceramic, ruby, sapphire, etc) will be bored out, assuming I can learn the skill needed. We'll see on the next top- that's the plan.


----------



## brino (Mar 10, 2017)

A few weeks ago wasn't someone here asking what they could do with a "barrel" full of ceramic bearing balls?
I should try to find that thread and point them to this thread.
-brino


----------



## rwm (Mar 10, 2017)

As I thought about making one of these I realized that an 8mm bearing is about 0.315. That is suspiciously just larger than 5/16"!  Is that an accident of nature? I think not. In fact, if you heat the outer part they are the same size...

I envision a wheel made from depleted uranium and a diamond bearing?

Robert


----------



## Bob Korves (Mar 11, 2017)

Tops.  Not just for little kids anymore...


----------



## Ulma Doctor (Mar 11, 2017)

very nice top wildo!!!
7:22 is a very impressive spin time
well done!


----------



## wildo (Mar 11, 2017)

Ulma Doctor said:


> very nice top wildo!!!
> 7:22 is a very impressive spin time
> well done!



Got 10:17 with it yesterday!


----------



## rwm (Mar 16, 2017)

Hey! what happened to the link to the FB group on Vorso tops??? I don't see it anymore?
Robert


----------



## wildo (Mar 16, 2017)

rwm said:


> Hey! what happened to the link to the FB group on Vorso tops??? I don't see it anymore?
> Robert



I don't think there was ever a link to them on this thread. The Vorso group is here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/755145274629458/
but the Pocket Top Talk group is much better: https://www.facebook.com/groups/pockettoptalk/


----------



## rwm (Mar 17, 2017)

Apparently I am now banned from the Vorso Tops page. Not sure why? I asked someone what the diameter of the stem was on their top. Obviously, I intended to make some tops. Perhaps that is a no-no?
Kind of funny!
Robert


----------



## wildo (Mar 17, 2017)

rwm said:


> Apparently I am now banned from the Vorso Tops page. Not sure why? I asked someone what the diameter of the stem was on their top. Obviously, I intended to make some tops. Perhaps that is a no-no?
> Kind of funny!
> Robert



Top makers don't take kindly to imitation; that's a fact. You wouldn't be the first to be banned- though usually you need to actually make the top first. Ha! That said, you can imitate a lot better than Vorso. They are so plain and boring... There's WAY better out there. Regarding dimensions, the Prometheus Lambda top has some basic dimensions on their page. If you aren't a member of Pocket Top Talks though, I really do recommend that group. Basically that group is where ALL of the "top" top makers hang out and show their stuff. 

http://www.darksucks.com/store_lambda.html


----------



## rwm (Mar 18, 2017)

Thanks! I am a member now! 
I like those Lambda tops. I especially like the complex stuff on Billetspin.
I still don't know how people are gettign 20 min spins!?
R


----------



## intjonmiller (Mar 18, 2017)

I saw one yesterday that reportedly spins for 57 minutes. It has three grub screws around the perimeter to fine-tune the balance, it spins on a carbide bearing, and it is on a pedestal that doesn't allow it to travel and waste energy. That's an insane level of performance.


----------



## rwm (Mar 18, 2017)

Must have been spinning in a vacuum...
R


----------

