# Ideal Cnc Machine(s) To Purchase For Hobby Shop?



## Jaden (Mar 1, 2015)

Hey guys, what are the pros and cons to getting 2 machines a 2 axis CNC lathe and a 3 axis CNC vertical mill versus just a 5 axis CNC cabinet machine?

Debating which way to go, I would prefer one machine due to space considerations but I need to see the whole picture. If I got the two machines would I have to keep switching the part from one machine to the other to finish it?

The Gcode languages may vary from machine to machine, also potentially more maintenance with two.

What are some other considerations I should be thinking about? For a good used one please suggest brand and price to watch for. I could go up to $30.000 or so before tooling, rigging or any electrical conversions or retrofitting. I would like it to pay for itself over time with odd jobs so that I can just enjoy it for all my hobby projects to come.

 I have an eight foot ceiling in the garage (low) and up to 60 amps total power. I'm in no rush but just looking to avoid any pitfalls when it comes to getting the right machine for a fair price. 

Please guys comment with your thoughts, I read them all, thanks!


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## bladehunter (Mar 2, 2015)

Buy all 3, you know you need 'em.


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## Boswell (Mar 2, 2015)

Think about the parts that you might want to make. Look at Project of the day thread for ideas if you need to. Then work out how you would make those on the various scenarios that you outlined. Look at workspace (table size for Mill and Diam and length for Lathe). I suspect that even if you get an all-in-one that you will have to re-clamp the work when moving from milling to lathe and back so I don't think you will save any work there.  Look at the foot print of the various machines to see how they would fit into your work space. Look at the threads in the Questions & Answers section in the "Our Shops and the spaces we work in" sub-section to see how other people have arraigned their work spaces for ideas.  If you want to actually make money with the machines then you need to consider how fast you can make parts so machine power and ease of use play into it. No two shops are the same and no two people have the same set of goals for what they want to get from this hobby so look at what others are doing but then figure out what YOU need to meet your needs.   
Oh, and share with the forum often for feedback and ideas.  

Good Luck and have fun.


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## gt40 (Mar 2, 2015)

Jaden said:


> Hey guys, what are the pros and cons to getting 2 machines a 2 axis CNC lathe and a 3 axis CNC vertical mill versus just a 5 axis CNC cabinet machine?
> 
> Debating which way to go, I would prefer one machine due to space considerations but I need to see the whole picture. If I got the two machines would I have to keep switching the part from one machine to the other to finish it?
> 
> ...



I would be really cautious on the idea of 5 axis, especially if you are working with metal.   I have seen a few scratch built 5 axis routers but you need a lathe and a mill to build them and they are not up to working with steel and barely aluminum.

The main issue IMO is CAM.   The software alone to properly use it to capacity will likely cost a lot more than your budget.   Without decent cam, it is difficult to make stuff with a 5 axis machine.   The complexity of the machines themselves add to the cost: a commercial 5 axis machine starts well over 100k  and that is without the cam which can be 35k or more. 

Also consider that most operations can be done by either a lathe or a mill and many things people think they need 5 axis can be done without.   The complexity of setting up a machine in 5 axis adds to this and you may found you are more productive with with a conventional lathe and mill.   It can take literally years to properly learn the control and cam for a 5 axis.

 Don't forget mass- a proper 5 axis machine might be 8-1000 lbs.  That is no joke to try to move around in a home shop.  Sorry to sound a bit discouraging but the lathe and mill route might be more productive, lower learning curve and less expensive.

Keep in mind with machinery, size matters and you will want as large as you can fit for your lathe and your mill.  I started years ago on a 8-14 hobby mill and now have a converted jet 13x40 lathe- same with the mill,  started out with a cnc'd x2 mini mill, converted a RF45 clone to cnc and now am building a 4k lb epoxy granite mill.  Should have just gotten a larger lathe and mill in the first place.


Good luck!


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## JimDawson (Mar 2, 2015)

I have to agree with gt40.  A 5 axis machining center is probably way overkill for a home shop.  Unless you have years of CNC programming experience, a 5 axis machining center might be a bit overwhelming.  Then the there is the issue of the cost and complexity of the CAM program, not to mention the cost of the tooling.

I would stick with a 3 axis mill, and a 2 axis lathe.  Get the biggest equipment that you can reasonably fit into you shop, just to increase your flexibility.  Unless you plan on doing a lot of production work, getting machines that can be used manually as well as in CNC mode would be a really good idea.


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## tmarks11 (Mar 2, 2015)

2 axis machine + 3 axis machine does not equal a 5 axis machine.

A 3 axis machines is the exact same thing as a 2 axis machine... except the computer controls the height of the spindle instead of you doing it manually.

A 4 axis machine is the exact same thing as a 3 axis machine, except now you have a rotary table that rotates.

A 5 axis machine is exactly the same as a 4 axis machine, except now you have a rotary table that is mounted perpendicular to the previous rotary table.... or sometimes you have a spindle that looks like a robotic hand.... hmm, ok, a 5 axis machine is NOTHING like a 4 axis machine, except the price is the same.... if you multiple it by 15X.  And double the price of the CAM software....

I have a Tormach 1100, which is probably one of the most well known hobbyist level CNC mills.  It is a Chinese machine, but IMHO the fit and finish on it is as good as a lot of Taiwanese machinery I have seen.  Tormach has a good QC department onsite at the factory.  It is definitely not as fast or robust as an industrial machine, but it does the job with a decent surface finish.

This would get you into a 4 axis cnc machine much cheaper, without dealing with the headaches of used cnc equipment that could involve ruinous repair bills or non-existent repair part needs.  I debated the industrial route, but finally jumped on the Tormach because it was a quicker solution to get where I wanted to go without the risk involved in the used market (also in my are of the US, used equipment is hard to come by).

You can go to the cnczone Tormach forum to find more happy customers.

A competitor to Tormach is Novakon, which you might want to look at, as they are a Canadian company in Toronto.

As the above mentioned, you need to think about CAD/CAM software; g-code can only get you so far.  A lot of hobbyists have been jumping on Autodesk's Fusion 360, which combines CAD with HSMWorks (CAM).  I am not fond of the user interface on the CAD system, but it is an excellent deal, and the CAM software is an industry leader (I use HSMWorks with Solidworks, which is a CAD solid modeling software which is excellent, but spend).


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## GLCarlson (Mar 13, 2015)

Jaden said:


> Hey guys, what are the pros and cons to getting 2 machines a 2 axis CNC lathe and a 3 axis CNC vertical mill versus just a 5 axis CNC cabinet machine?



Budget uber alles. What can you afford? My choice is a 3 upgradable to 4 axis prototype mill (Tormach 1100) and a manual lathe, old American tool-room iron. That has worked for me for a decade. In a home shop, you'll do a lot of little jobs on the lathe rather than write code for an hour.  Or three. CNC's great on a mill. In a hobby shop, it's gross overkill on a lathe. More important is to pick a workspace size (mine is 12x12x12) and get equipment that lets you live within that...and is at least as good as you are. Don't buy cheap equipment, ever.

My two bits worth.


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