# An Unwanted Project



## Robo_Pi (Mar 9, 2019)

I wanted to cut down a tree today to make into lumber, but my log-lifting tractor was broken.   Boo boo.




A piece that holds a chain for the 3-point hitch had broken off.




Should be a simple fix right?   It took 5 hours to fix it. 

The first thing I did was take the pieces off as well as the unbroken piece on the right side to use as a pattern.




Then I had to find a piece of steel the right thickness.  I found this old Jeep step:






It even has a hole already drilled in a usable place:





Drew the outline in chalk and headed over to the plasma cutter.





After cutting the part out and grinding it down some I drilled holes using the unbroken piece as a pattern




Finally, after drilling all the holes I was able to mount it back on the tractor and it fit perfectly. 




5 hours to do this little tiny job.    But now I can lift logs again.  Yippee!


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## Ulma Doctor (Mar 9, 2019)

nice save!


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## Old junk (Mar 9, 2019)

Get it done,looks like a piece from my metal bin.


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## markba633csi (Mar 9, 2019)

I would plan on re-visiting that assembly again, and beefing it up considerably, weather permitting. Maybe make one solid piece instead of two?
mark


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 9, 2019)

markba633csi said:


> I would plan on re-visiting that assembly again, and beefing it up considerably, weather permitting. Maybe make one solid piece instead of two?
> mark



I'm hoping to restore this tractor.  This is one of two antique tractors I have.    The part in question was always two pieces.  Once piece on each side.  There is enough room to make a single piece that would basically be a ring and bolt on with all four bolts.   But that wasn't the original design.  

I was thinking about beefing it up too, but there are other weak links in the chains as well.    These chains keep the load from moving too far side-to-side.  Without these chains attachments (_or a log I'm carrying_) can swing over and hit the rear tire which could destroy a good tire.   These tires are pretty nice, so I'd hate to see them get chewed up by equipment running into them. 

When I lift a log with this 3-point hitch, these chains are not part of the lifting process.   But they do keep the logs from swinging too far right and left when I'm bringing them in.  I'm aware of the antique nature of the tractor, and so I take things as easy as I possibly can.    This part had been broken before and I had previously "fixed" it superficially.   I was actually using it with just one mounting bolt for quite some time before it finally broke off all together.   It's actually nice that it didn't break off the actual mounting bolts.   

But yeah, I sometimes carry logs far larger than I should be carrying with this little tractor.    My biggest load would be a 9 foot oak log about 30" in diameter.  When I have a log that big I take it real slow bringing it in.   Pine, maple and cherry (the other three types of wood I have on my property) are typically much lighter than the oak and easier to deal with.    This little tractor actually performs pretty darn well considering how old it is.


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## Jubil (Mar 9, 2019)

Robo_Pi said:


> I'm hoping to restore this tractor.  This is one of two antique tractors I have.    The part in question was always two pieces.  Once piece on each side.  There is enough room to make a single piece that would basically be a ring and bolt on with all four bolts.   But that wasn't the original design.
> 
> I was thinking about beefing it up too, but there are other weak links in the chains as well.    These chains keep the load from moving too far side-to-side.  Without these chains attachments (_or a log I'm carrying_) can swing over and hit the rear tire which could destroy a good tire.   These tires are pretty nice, so I'd hate to see them get chewed up by equipment running into them.
> 
> ...



 Ingenuity at work! Using what you got.
 Looks like a Ford. Which one? Mine is a Golden Jubilee aka NAA. (Hence my handle Jubil) I've had this jewel for 20 yrs and have been in every part of it. (Just in case you need help restoring). Do you have the stabilizer bars for the 3 point system? I'm not an expert but I think the chains are just for when there is no implement on 3 point hitch. The stabilizer bars take the load off the chains. But maybe you know that already, if so just disregard.


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 10, 2019)

Jubil said:


> Ingenuity at work! Using what you got.
> Looks like a Ford. Which one? Mine is a Golden Jubilee aka NAA. (Hence my handle Jubil) I've had this jewel for 20 yrs and have been in every part of it. (Just in case you need help restoring).



I think mine is a Ford/Ferguson.  I'm not sure of the exact history.   I'm pretty sure when I buy parts I just look up Ferguson and it's a model TO-20.    Not sure of the year either, I'm thinking 1949, but I can be sure of that.   It's a 4 cyl gas engine.  I have purchased some parts for it using the TO-20 model number and so far everything has fit.    I'm not sure how long I've had this.  At least 30 years, maybe more.  And I've been using it pretty much daily.  



Jubil said:


> Do you have the stabilizer bars for the 3 point system? I'm not an expert but I think the chains are just for when there is no implement on 3 point hitch. The stabilizer bars take the load off the chains. But maybe you know that already, if so just disregard.



No, I don't have stabilizer bars for it.   I probably should have something because I know that things do seem to swing around more than they probably should be doing.   The main thing I use it for is mowing with a brush hog.  pulling a flat bed trailer, and lifting logs to bring into my sawmill.  I don't like to drag the logs in the mud,  It ruins the land, and gets mud all over the logs which is not good for the sawmill blade.  So I pick the logs up and bring them in that way. 

Let me see if I can find a photo with a log on the back,....

Here's one:




That's a typical size log.  That one looks like it might be maple.   I have a way that I chain them onto the lift arm and they ride behind the tractor pretty nice without swinging around too much.   I use three chains.   One attached to each end of the log, and a third chain you can't see in the photo.   It runs from each end of the log to the center of the lift down low in front of the log.   This keeps the log from twisting sideways.  It's a pretty solid method.   I can bring the logs right to the sawmill and just lower them right onto the mill. 

But yeah, I probably should be using some kind of stabilizer arms.   I'd need to fabricate my own at this point.   I ran out of money about a half a century ago.     So everything I do now has to be done for free.


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## GL (Mar 10, 2019)

Slick setup and nice fix. Need to build a boom for my tractor that works similar.  I was wondering what the hammer in the picture was originally for.  I have never seen one with that much curve in the face or as much flat in the middle where the eye for the handle is.


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## Janderso (Mar 10, 2019)

That's the way I remember Pennsylvania.
It's a beautiful state.
Nice save.


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 10, 2019)

GL said:


> I was wondering what the hammer in the picture was originally for. I have never seen one with that much curve in the face or as much flat in the middle where the eye for the handle is.



I have no idea when or where I first obtained that hammer.   I've had it for decades.   I'm pretty sure I've replaced the handle somewhere along the way, maybe even more than once.  The face you see in the photo is the round or "ball peen" side.   The other face is flat.   It's obviously not a regular shaped ball peen.  I use this hammer all the time.  It one of my most favorite hammers.   I like the mass.  I use it for driving 20 penny nails.  

It's also my logging hammer.  I use it for driving wedges in trees when felling them or cutting them into logs.   It has a nice heft to if for that. 

And just recently I've hung it next to my lathe.   I actually like it for knocking the drawbars loose.  Again, the heft is just right.  I use it also to "tap" things gently if I need a find adjustment when mounting a workpiece.   Although I really should have a soft hammer for that, like brass or something. 

Anyway here are some close-ups if you're interested.  There are no markings or writings on the head.   I had painted it red at one time so I could easily see it in the woods.    I too have never seen another hammer like it.  It could be a one of a kind, possibly home made?  I have no clue of its origins.  I don't even remember how I came to own it.   I've had it potentially from early childhood.   I might have possibly gotten it from my grandfather.  I did get some tools given to me when he died.  Perhaps this hammer was among them.  I just don't remember. 

All I know is that it has become my favorite hammer over the years. 

Side 1:   No markings, not even a hint that there ever was a marking.




Side 2: Same story




Top view just for completeness.


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## GL (Mar 10, 2019)

Cool story, thanks for sharing.  Funny how we have tools from way back that just work for us, feel good in your hand, and  become the thing you instinctively grab for.  If they came from relatives past, you think about them occasionally as you use it - makes you smile.


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## Bi11Hudson (Mar 10, 2019)

Looks like the thread is getting hijacked. More traffic about the hammer than fixing the tractor. Good save there, by the way.
     The hammer looks, to me, like a very old version of a B&O, with the end cut back. I have no idea what the B&O means, it's what  the millwrights call it. Has a long handle, like a sledge. One side, the hammer(?), is for striking with a heavy sledge. The other side is a pin punch. Varying sizes depending on the application. The long handle to keep the user/ holder clear of sparks and glancing blows by  the guy slinging the hammer. Usually a large sledge, 16 or more pounds.
     When the pin punch gets beyond economical use, such as bent or broken, it often ends up cut back and made into a (relatively small) sledge itself. You got to watch the balance when you grind it back. But it makes a very good hand sledge, like a drilling hammer but a little heavier.
     Working in the "hot" side of a steel mill gives a lot of insight into many crafts. The casters where I was made a "slab" that was 10 inches thick, by anywhere from 3 to 8 feet wide. At 40 inches a minute, downtime was quite costly and many corners were cut to keep it going. We went through B&Os like candy bars. And broken handle sledges. No time to replace a handle, just grab another and keep going. Electricians ended up with a lot of tools that way.

Bill Hudson​


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 10, 2019)

B&O might stand for Baltimore & Ohio railroad?   My dad worked for the Union Railroad which was part of US Steel in Pittsburgh.   But I've seen B&O railroad cars in their yards too.   It was mostly hopper cars hauling coal, iron ore, and of course flat cars hauling steel products too.    So it could be that this hammer came from the railroad.   That's the most likely source.    So this hammer was probably my dad's then.


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## RJSakowski (Mar 10, 2019)

The hammer looks like a cross between a rounding hammer and a ball peen hammer.  Both have a domed face which blacksmiths use to efficiently draw metal.  Typical ball peen hammers have relatively small radius and are used for upsetting rivet faces.  They aren't very efficient when drawing a bar of metal though. Rounding hammers have a something like a 2-1/2 to 3" radius on the dome and are great for drawing metal. 

The hammer might have been used for heading large rivets

The tractor looks very similar to my 1950 ford 8N.  I took my safety chains off years ago.  My tractor has an auxiliary stabilizer bar which is mounted on an extension of the right hand fender bracket on the same axis as the lift arms.  This forms a triangle which prevents side to side motion of the lift  arm.  I always have either a drawbar or an implement attached to the arms so the left hand lift arm is constrained from side to side motion as well.


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 10, 2019)

RJSakowski said:


> The tractor looks very similar to my 1950 ford 8N. I took my safety chains off years ago. My tractor has an auxiliary stabilizer bar which is mounted on an extension of the right hand fender bracket on the same axis as the lift arms. This forms a triangle which prevents side to side motion of the lift arm. I always have either a drawbar or an implement attached to the arms so the left hand lift arm is constrained from side to side motion as well.



Yeah, I'll need to look into making some kind of stabilizer bar.   As it is now it just yanks on one chain and then the other going back and forth.   It's no wonder it broke with all that yanking going on.


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 10, 2019)

More Hammer highjacking,...

With all the talk about the hammer I was starting to get embarrassed about how much I've been neglecting it.   So,....

Wire brush,...




Masking tape




New Paint. 




Ta da!   Daddy and grandpa would be proud.  

Actually I've been wanting to do this for some time.  It's easier to find when it's painted bright red.


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## f350ca (Mar 11, 2019)

Put a turnbuckle in the chain to remove the slack.

Greg


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 11, 2019)

f350ca said:


> Put a turnbuckle in the chain to remove the slack.
> 
> Greg



Like these?


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## f350ca (Mar 11, 2019)

Yep My Kubota uses a rod and turnbuckle.

Greg


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 11, 2019)

I'll probably do something like that.   It would be nice to tighen this hitch up.    I have a Case tractor also.  The Case has a 2-point hitch and a solid tongue draw bar.    It's also quite a bit larger.   Unfortunatley it's currently broken as well.   That'll be a project for another day.


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 11, 2019)

I just found this video that explains how stabilizers work.   Apparently I have a few options available.   He even shows the loose chains that older tractors like mine have.    So yeah, I'll have to get some turnbuckles.  That'll fix me right up.   I've been putting up with these loose chains far too long.  I can't believe I never addressed this earlier.   Although, until my Case tractor broke down I wasn't using this tractor as much.  The Case tractor is quite a bit larger and has a different kind of hitch entirely.


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## jdedmon91 (Mar 11, 2019)

The older tractors ex. Ford used extra bars that had attachment points under the rear wheels. At least that is what 9n, 8n, and Jubilees has. I have the original set for my 8n but that a back burner project 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RJSakowski (Mar 11, 2019)

jdedmon91 said:


> The older tractors ex. Ford used extra bars that had attachment points under the rear wheels. At least that is what 9n, 8n, and Jubilees has. I have the original set for my 8n but that a back burner project
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting because the Ford 8N operator's manual and the IT shop manual don't mention the extra bar and its mounting bracket.  The bracket is a fairly simple L shape bolted beneath the fender bracket and the arm is also fairly simple 23/8" x 2 or 2-1/2".  Neather the bracket nor the arm appear to be home made.  Knowing the previous  and only other owner of the tractor, it would not have been on his skill set to make this.  I suspect that it was an option available when the tractor was purchased.  Here is my setup.


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## stupoty (Mar 11, 2019)

Robo_Pi said:


> I use this hammer all the time. It one of my most favorite hammers.



It's funny the way we build an affinity with a particular hammer 

Stuart


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 11, 2019)

Mine doesn't have  those sway bars or brackets.  But it might have originally.   I bought this tractor from my brother-in-law.  He had fabricated a massive frame that mounts under the tractor to hold a massive snow plow on the front.    And the frame he fabricated was bolted on at the bottom of the rear fenders where that sway bar mount would have been.   I took that frame off this tractor.  I'll try to post pics of it later if I can.

In any case, I rigged up a temporary solution that seems to be working for now.

I've been getting firewood in this digging bucket.  




And I  have been noticing it banging back and forth as it yanks on those chains.    And that's why I broke my tractor.  I can't believe I'm such an idiot.   Ok, scratch that,   It actually easy to believe I'm an idiot.  I've secretly known this for years. 

It's a good thing I joined this forum or I might have remained an idiot until the day I died.

But now thanks to you guys I'm working smarter.

I rigged up a temporary solution using motorcycle tie-down straps.




These are actually working quite well.   In fact, you can see in the above photo that both chains are dangling loose which means that the tie-down straps are keeping the bucket centered.   It still sways a little bit, but it isn't yanking the chains anymore.  No more clanking.

So thank you guys for saving my tractor from future neglect and abuse. 

I'll work on obtaining a more permanent fix in the future, but these nylon tie-down straps seem to be working for now.   No more chain yanking.


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 11, 2019)

stupoty said:


> It's funny the way we build an affinity with a particular hammer
> 
> Stuart



It is a joy to use.  It's extremely well balanced and feels good in the hand. 

I'm building a new workshop and had to drive a lot of 20 penny nails.    Using my "regular" nailing hammer I had to tap those 20 penny nails about 5 or 6 times to drive them home.  The hammer just wasn't heavy enough.   But with this baby it was 1, 2, 3 and that nail is set.    So it has become my favorite 20 penny pusher.  

It's light enough that it doesn't feel like a sledge, but heavy enough to get the job done.  Very ergonomic as they say.


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## Bi11Hudson (Mar 12, 2019)

Several years ago I had to make some "anti-sway" chains for a small tractor doing a too big job. Won't go into details about those days. I started with chains, then went to crossed chains. As in the right chain attached to the left side of the axle gear. And the left vice versa. Eventually ended up with flat bars on a couple of rigs that I kept hitched up for a long time at a stretch. 
     The reasoning for the crossed links was the size of the created triangle came out closer to even, nearer 45 deg. I wanted 30 deg or less, but went with what I had.  I "theorized" it put less stress on the tractor frame. Might be worth considering. That is the point to the post. Those anti-sway bars kept things well centered up when set tight. Just watch out that they mount near the same point as the hitch.
     I made a number of mods on the FarmAll "A" trying to adapt several "3 point" implements. Never got around to the hydraulics, but the hitch worked well enough. Biggest problem I ran into was the final drive was actually at the end of the axle, almost inside the wheel hubs. Made for some weird looking hookups.
     On the hammer, I usually thought of it as B&O RR, but I'm into trains so figured it was my bias there.
Bill Hudson​


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 12, 2019)

Bi11Hudson said:


> On the hammer, I usually thought of it as B&O RR, but I'm into trains so figured it was my bias there.



A fellow train enthusiast.  

I have a whole bunch of trains in the attic in N-scale, HO-scale, and G-scale.  The G-scale trains are the common Bachmann Big Haulers.   I think I have 5 or 6 sets, along with a few extra cars. 

All the ones I have are old steamers 

Let me check my list.  Here's what I have in G-scale.

2 Liberty Bells







1 Gold Rush 






1 Royal Blue






and 2  Silverton Flyers






I'm attracted to the old steamer.   I bought these at a flee market and got them really cheap. 

I've been wanting to set up a garden train railroad in my front yard.   But real life projects keep getting in the way.


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## Bi11Hudson (Mar 12, 2019)

NMRA 2520 Life : Officially, since 1971, unofficially add about 6 more years

    I work mostly in HO, occasionally doing something with N or O scale. Early on, I would have liked large scale stuff like that. But as I grew older, went to sea, and then started working for a living, life kept pushing other things in the way. Now that I'm retired, I'm in a wheel chair and this layout is only a quarter done. The machine shop I've built up over time shares the space and my time with my railroading, which chews up even more time than working. Yeah, well... I have been acquiring a piece of brass here and there over the years. But mostly storing it away for use when I retired. Now that I'm retired, I can't do much with it.
    My workshop and layout are in a separate building so in cold weather I only get over there when it's warm. I'm a "died in the wool" southerner, if it's less than 70F, it's cold. If it's less than 60F, I stay inside under a blanket, freezing. If it's raining, Wife won't let me out. You probably would be like my dad-in-law, running around here in the dead of winter in a T-shirt. He's in Maine, that's a bit of difference in perspectives.
    My railroading goes back to childhood. Over 50 years ago I made the transition from toys to models. A long story, bits and pieces told on http://www.hudsontelcom.com/. Might be worth your while to look around at a few of my trevails that held up my railroading. On the other hand, it's near the end of winter and you're pretty busy. Some day when it's too rainy to work will be better.
Bill Hudson​


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 12, 2019)

Nice web site Bill,

I had started an HO scale layout about 40 years ago.    But then I had to move and never finished it.   The layout was a model of the Union railroad in Pittsburgh PA.    It was a fairly small layout but it was complete with a steel mill, a round house, and a coal mine.   Here's some photos of the plans for the layout:

In the following picture the brown and green area in the middle is a mountain.  There is an entire coal mine diorama in the loop in the brown area.  The coal mine is not shown in this drawing.

Below in the pink area is the steel mill with an animated rolling mill.    The tiny track is N-scale track used to simulate a small industrial train about the side of a typical fork lift to move stuff around inside the steel mill. 

Below that is the "yard"  and to the left the roundhouse.  This layout is as cramped as HO scale will allow for.  In fact, it's actually cramped to the hilt.  I used all flex track and make curves as small as my engines and rolling stock would permit.   Far tighter radius than used on a typical HO layout.




The coal mine mountain lifts off to expose a tunnel underneath.    The tunnel allow for hiding one train.  So you can  have one train go into the tunnel and a different train come out.   Nice little optical illusion trick. 




I have all the parts necessary to build this layout in the attic.    It was half built at one time but I had to disassemble it to move and never got around to putting it back together again.   I should probably sell all this junk because I'm never going to put this back together again. 

In fact, at this point if I were going to mess around with model railroading I would rather focus on the outdoor garden train.   I have big ambitions there too.

Here's my initial Garden Train plan (not too ambitious)



Then I got carried away,  

This is designed based on the terrain in front of my cottage.  The gray is pathways.  The orange represent draw bridges.  
It's a crazy layout.   I would love to do it, but I can't find much time to work on it.




I have too many pokers in the fire,  I think the fire went out a long time ago.


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## Robo_Pi (Mar 12, 2019)

Bi11Hudson said:


> Several years ago I had to make some "anti-sway" chains for a small tractor doing a too big job. Won't go into details about those days. I started with chains, then went to crossed chains. As in the right chain attached to the left side of the axle gear. And the left vice versa.



I was going to try that criss-cross method with these nylon straps.   Unfortunately I couldn't find a way to hook them up without them hitting the PTO.   I could do it, but I would need to make up some new brackets.   It's actually working pretty good the way I'm currently doing it.   Much better than it was with just chains alone.   I hooked up a trailer today and the trailer is much more stable.   And easier to back up with too.  I can't believe I didn't do something like this years ago. 

I actually did think of doing something about it, but it's one of those projects you keep putting off while doing other things.  

I really need to start setting time aside for thing like tractor restoration, and model railroad building. 

I actually did do some work toward building my own track for the garden railroad.  I have a lot of parts already cut out.   All I need to do is putt them together.  I'm making my own track, and it's made from wood, including the rails.   The trains will be battery operated and remote control.   And I haven't modified the trains yet.   So there's no rush to build the track when the trains aren't ready to run on it.   And there's no rush to modify the trains when there's not track built yet.  

So I'm in a closed-loop of not needing to do anything because other parts aren't ready  yet.   That's how my mind thinks.

Actually if I got off my lazy butt and built some track that would motivate me to convert the locomotives over to batter power.   So I really should just get out there and build some darn tracks.


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## zuhnc (Sep 29, 2019)

Ford 8N-C, 1951, here.  Those are check chains.  Prevents the lift arms from hitting the tires with no implement attached, as you surmised.  With an implement mounted, you need a stabilizer bar.  This bar will run from either the left or right lift pin on the implement to one of the pins mounted directly under the axle at the point the fender mounting bolts attach.  Basically, it is a short piece of 3/8" angle with a short "lift pin" it it, and a flat bar from it to the implement.  Various tractor supply houses have both the pins and the bars.  The bars are very hard steel so they do not readily bend; mild steel won't work.  A web site for your perusal - "Just8Ns.com".  Everything you want to know about Ferguson, Ford, and pretty much any other tractor and implement.  "Yesterdaystractors.com" is another informative web site.  One bar is all that is needed.  The lift arm, the implement pin, and the stabilizer bar all form a triangle to prevent sway.  No tiedowns, or other make-shift rigs needed.  zuhnc


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