# Grizzly 4003G Lathe Chatter Problem



## Jamespvill

Hello All!

So I have had my Grizzly 4003G since August of 2012 and It had been an absolutely fantastic machine. It is used multiple times a week for at least an hour per session. It had never been crashed, tipped, or mangled in any way shape or form. I would like to think that I keep it in pretty good condition as I need the tolerances as tight as possible (As we all do). 

Just last week I was turning some 6061 aluminum and noticed that there was lots of chatter marks on my piece. I was taking light cuts and using fluid. I have never had chatter marks on aluminum before! I just figured it was some bad aluminum or something of that nature...:thinking:

I was in a rush, so didn't put much thought into it. But today I was turning some stainless and there was huge amounts of chatter on the piece, and audible squealing.(I've never had problems with SS before) So I reset everything, fresh cutter edge, and tried again. Same results...So I moved onto mild steel, then aluminum again and the same horrible chatter. My stick-out was only an inch or so and even when I put my live center on it, the piece still had chatter marks. 

I double checked all of my gibs, rechecked my tool height, made sure every nut and bolt was tight on the machine, double checked it was still level, and pulled out my favorite machining 12L14 stock to confirm...Same chatter!!! anic:

So...It appears as though I am in need of some serious help! Both with my machine and mental state at the moment! (I don't want a $3,000 paperweight!) 

I'm afraid it may be bearings that are causing my problems, but I have no idea how to approach confirming that is the problem or how to replace the darn things...I'll admit I have very, very little knowledge of bearings at all, and am a bit intimidated by the though of pulling apart my Lathe. 

Thanks in advance for anyone providing some help!


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## Smudgemo

Don't be afraid to call Grizzly's service dept. if you can't find something simple going on (M-F eastern time zone.)  Those guys are super-helpful and may have additional information about your machine that you don't have.  They once sent me an internal document for my prior benchtop mill that wasn't in the manual.  Something about adjusting the spindle, I seem to recall.  Hopefully it's just something that has gotten loose that's either not obvious or so obvious you aren't seeing it.

-Ryan


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## george wilson

I'm not taking the time to look up that model. BUT,if the lathe is a cabinet model and sitting on concrete,there's your problem. When I bought my 16 X 40 Grizzly in 1986,it ran like a bunch of small parts vibrating down a chute,and BADLY  chattered metal. I found out when driving oak wedges under it in leveling it,the noise and the chattering stopped the instant I got it off the concrete floor,and onto the oak wedges.

Now,my lathe sits on Mason rubber pads,and has worked just fine and quietly ever since. I hope this is the answer to your problem. If it is a bench lathe,what is it sitting on? Get some hardwood under it,I'd suggest. Even not real thick hardwood will help.

P.S. I just saw another thread with pictures of the same model lathe. It is sitting on a cabinet. Do try getting the bottom of the lathe out of contact with the floor if it is concrete. I don't know why Grizzly lathes react that way (maybe all of them don't).but that was the solution to my problem.

Please post if my advice works. I do not think the Grizzly techs know the solution to this problem,though in 1986 I did tell them how I solved my problem. They were about to send me a new headstock!!


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## Cobra

Sounds like it started suddenly.  
Any changes to the environment, setup, or tools?


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## Jamespvill

Okay, So I put some wood underneath the lathe to get it off the concrete, re-leveled and unfortunately the problem persists... It's been running on the concreter floor for the last year and a half with no problems.

Here are the chatter marks.





I have been working mostly in aluminum lately, so audible chatter isn't too noticeable and I have been media blasting all my parts so finish from the lathe hasn't been a concern for the last two weeks. The problem may have started up to two weeks ago but I just didn't notice it at the time. All my tooling is the exact same and my setup, location and environment are all the same as they were 2 months ago.


I should probably stop stressing and just wait until tomorrow to give Grizzly tech support a call, they have been very helpful the last few times I called. But I think we all would all react about the same when our perfectly accurate machine starts putting out crap finishes.

Regardless, any more suggestions would be gladly accepted!


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## Ray C

Common problem...

The jib in either (or both) the crossfeed and compound need to be adjusted.

NOTE:  If you remove the crossfeed from the unit to clean the jibs, *wear gloves and handle it carefully*.  The dovetails have very sharp edges and that's a 40lb block of metal.   Last year, I was doing the same thing and in the process of carrying the crossslide to set it down, it stumbled from it's resting position and in the process of steadying it, I badly lacerated the inside tips of three fingers.  32 stitches and significant nerve damage that persists even now and 2 months of very sore/sensitive fingers to the point I could do almost nothing with that hand.

Ray
.


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## coolidge

Its a hail Marry but did you check the chuck? It sounds like you have done everything else so you might remove the chuck, clean inspect and reinstall to check that the cam bolts are still tight and turn them in a turn if you find some too loose. Check motor mounts, motor pulley. Does it chatter at all speeds and other gear box combinations?


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## Jamespvill

Ray, Ouch! I remember seeing some pictures of your hand healing when I first joined the forum but never got the whole scoop! Sounds a bit like a fight that I had with some 304 SS swarf, but I think I was lucky with that one...very little nerve damage for me. 

I thought it was gib problem to start with so adjusted them, then readjusted again until they were so tight I could barely move them, unfortunately chatter was still very present. 



coolidge, Just this morning I had that Idea, so I went out, popped the chuck off, tightened everything more, cleaned everything and put it back on. Alas...there is still chatter. Also, whether it's at 200 rpms or 1000 I get chatter at a 5 thou depth of cut or a 50 thou

So far the lathe is winning, But that will change soon! I'll give grizzly a call in the morning and with the combined knowledge present here I do believe I will have a lathe running top notch again by Wednesday! (Gotta keep positive, right?)


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## Ray C

Try rotating the compound and take the cut at 0, 45 and 90 degrees and see if that makes the chatter go away.  If it does, it's the jibs.  The reason I pulled mine apart was because swarf was caught-up in there from turning brass and bronze.  That stuff crumbles into little chunks and gets everywhere and as a result, I could not adjust the jibs -and they seemed snug.  After cleaning and properly adjusting, the problem went away.


Ray


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## retmac

Jamespvill said:


> Okay, So I put some wood underneath the lathe to get it off the concrete, re-leveled and unfortunately the problem persists... It's been running on the concreter floor for the last year and a half with no problems.
> 
> Here are the chatter marks.
> 
> View attachment 73345
> 
> 
> 
> I have been working mostly in aluminum lately, so audible chatter isn't too noticeable and I have been media blasting all my parts so finish from the lathe hasn't been a concern for the last two weeks. The problem may have started up to two weeks ago but I just didn't notice it at the time. All my tooling is the exact same and my setup, location and environment are all the same as they were 2 months ago.
> 
> 
> I should probably stop stressing and just wait until tomorrow to give Grizzly tech support a call, they have been very helpful the last few times I called. But I think we all would all react about the same when our perfectly accurate machine starts putting out crap finishes.
> 
> Regardless, any more suggestions would be gladly accepted!



I see you are using a 3 jaw chuck,is it possible your jaws are worn and only griping at the back.


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## Jamespvill

Okay, So I took a cut at 0, 45, and 90, chatter marks every angle, regardless I took everything apart to clean the gibs out and afterwards the problem remains. I also swapped to my brand-new four-jaw chuck to make sure the chuck was not the problem, same results with the four-jaw. I used to get glass-smooth finishes on aluminum with aluminum inserts on my machine...now I get a chattery finish that looks a bit like galvanized metal...

Im trying to keep a Thomas Edison sort of mood going now... "If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward", Thomas A. Edison, Encyclopaedia Britannica


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## coolidge

Do you get chatter when you feed manually vs power feed? Do you get chatter when you do a face cut?


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## Jamespvill

I get chatter when I am power feeding and feeding by hand. I haven't paid much attention to facing cuts, but I will check tomorrow. 

Reading through the instruction manual it suggests that spindle bearing preload might be the culprit. This is new to me, So I'll risk feeling silly...What is and how do I measure end-play on my lathe? 

In case I failed to explain myself properly here is a link to the manual online, page 76.


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## darkzero

Since you have already adjusted the gibs I'm going to suspect the tool post next. But first, did you check the compound slide gib also? Better yet, lock the compund slide & try again. If that's not it, are you using a QCTP? If yes wedge or piston type? Chips could have got caught somewhere preventing solid lock up.

You lathe is not old at all, I wouldn't suspect it to be the bearings or preload but it is possible.


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## Jamespvill

Unfortunately I had something come up and Im out of town for the better part of the day today, but before I left I checked my toolpost, Its a piston type. Everything is locking up solid. I didn't have time to lock my compound slide but yesterday I tightened the gibs up to the max so I couldn't move them at all, and still chatter. 

I also set a indicator up on surface where the chuck mounts (its specific name eludes me) and pushed on the spindle from the other side, I got 1 thou of movement. I also set it up inside and got 1 though of side-to-side play. Would this be considered normal or should there be none at all?

-James


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## george wilson

Sorry my suggestion didn't work for your lathe. It worked for mine like magic. Obviously your lathe has a different problem. Do you need to tighten the spindle up a bit? There are spanner nuts on the  spindles that can be tightened to bring the angular surfaces of the bearings closer together,or just put more tension on them. Get them too tight and the headstock will get hotter in use,so be careful.

You might also make sure the bolts that bolt the headstock down to the bed are all tight. Modern Asian lathe headstocks sit on a ground flat area at the right hand end of the bed. The V ways do not go under the headstock. The head can be adjusted to make the lathe turn a true cylinder. If your lathe turns a true cylinder AND faces flat,you are lucky. It is within gov't. specs for lathes to face a little hollow. This is considered good for making flanges. I prefer my lathe to face dead flat,and luckily,it does.

I'm suspecting that your lathe needs the spindle adjusted a bit tighter,but I could be entirely wrong since I'm not there to examine your lathe.


Edited: Senior moment this A.M.,aided by strong pain killers for broken fingers: I could not recall the correct name for the spanner nuts earlier. Thanks for the post below for the jog!


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## xalky

https://d27ewrs9ow50op.cloudfront.net/partslists/g4003g_pl.pdf  Check out this parts drawing for your lathe. Part#156 in the drawing are the spanner nuts to tighten up the taper bearings. Tighten them up enough to remove the slop but not so much that they overheat. One nut locks against the other. You need to loosen the one closest to you first then turn in the inner nut, then lock them back together.


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## Jamespvill

Success! So it turned out that snugging up the spanner nut for the taper roller bearings solved my problem. When I pulled the cover off to access the nut, I was a little concerned when one nut with a spit in it and two set screws in there instead of two spanner nuts. I would post a picture but I'm not sure how to clear up more room for my attachments. 

As everyone should, I celebrated by blowing up 4 pounds of tannerite! )

Thank you everyone for the help and advice, without all the extra help this process would have been much more difficult. Hopefully I can whip up a fantastic thread to pay everyone back! 

Thanks again,

-James


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## coolidge

Congrats! Glad it was a simple fix.


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## darkzero

Yup, congrats, good to hear!


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## george wilson

I am glad for your success,but I hope you do not whip up a fantastic THREAT for everyone!!!! Especially if you have 4 pounds of Tannerite!!!

My friends and I do not buy Tannerite because we do not want to end up on someone's list in the government.


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## Jamespvill

george wilson said:


> I am glad for your success,but I hope you do not whip up a fantastic THREAT for everyone!!!! Especially if you have 4 pounds of Tannerite!!!
> 
> My friends and I do not buy Tannerite because we do not want to end up on someone's list in the government.





Haha!! Thanks for pointing that out! Fixed now!

But I agree with you on the list, unfortunately once the tannerite (or any other binary target) bug bites...it's hard to get rid of it! Fortunately I live on a farm in the middle of nowhere so we don't bother too many people and we can be as safe as possible.


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## Walsheng

This is good to know, about the bearing pre-load, not the Tannerite (not sure exactly what it is but I'm guessing if I Google it a little red flag goes up somewhere.)
I have been looking at the G4003G lathe and trying to learn as much as I can.  I'm glad you solved the issue and it didn't wind up to be a major problem.

John


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## ortho

Jamespvill said:


> "one nut with a spit in it and two set screws in there instead of two spanner nuts"?


  Wow, that's appalling.  Congratulations on solving this chatter problem.
I have a 40003G and I will be cringing if time comes to readjust the preloads on the bearings.  
---Joe


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## Jamespvill

Walsheng said:


> This is good to know, about the bearing pre-load, not the Tannerite (not sure exactly what it is but I'm guessing if I Google it a little red flag goes up somewhere.)
> I have been looking at the G4003G lathe and trying to learn as much as I can.  I'm glad you solved the issue and it didn't wind up to be a major problem.
> 
> John




Tannerite is a binary target sold at most gun shops. Basically that means its two ingredients that when mixed together become quite the lively reactive target. It's completely safe when hit with a hammer, lit on fire, or dropped down the stairs but when it's shot with a bullet going at least 2000 Ft./s a sizable explosion is triggered. So it's completely legal to buy as long as your 18 (or 21 depending on location). It's very fun to play with and very safe as long as you follow the warnings on the box (Like stand back when shooting it!). Unfortunately some folks choose to be irresponsible with it, thus giving it a bad name in some circles of society.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, So it appears I may have spoke too soon....My problem returned after a day of light use. I called up grizzly and talked to a very helpful man named Greg. I think Grizzly has changed quite a bit in the last few years, I remember people complaining how bad Grizzly customer support was years ago. Anyway, Greg confirmed my suspicions that it was likely a bearing. So onto my next question, has anyone ever taken the main spindle out of one of theses machines? I believe it's as simple as (haha, right?) taking off my collars from either side, taking a snap ring off in the gear box and whacking it through the gearbox? I'm hoping that when I get the spindle out, all the planets will align and I will see a clearly warn bearing and just screaming to be replaced...


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## dan12

Jamespvill said:


> Tannerite is a binary target sold at most gun shops. Basically that means its two ingredients that when mixed together become quite the lively reactive target. It's completely safe when hit with a hammer, lit on fire, or dropped down the stairs but when it's shot with a bullet going at least 2000 Ft./s a sizable explosion is triggered. So it's completely legal to buy as long as your 18 (or 21 depending on location). It's very fun to play with and very safe as long as you follow the warnings on the box (Like stand back when shooting it!). Unfortunately some folks choose to be irresponsible with it, thus giving it a bad name in some circles of society.



yup
big explosions on son of guns or that fake russian on youtube use it.
fpsrussia,nearly got killed with debree:jester: still like his videos,lol

it's not legal in calif.,yet stores sell it here:whistle:???????????????

never tried it myself....

- - - Updated - - -



Jamespvill said:


> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Okay, So it appears I may have spoke too soon....My problem returned after a day of light use. I called up grizzly and talked to a very helpful man named Greg. I think Grizzly has changed quite a bit in the last few years, I remember people complaining how bad Grizzly customer support was years ago. Anyway, Greg confirmed my suspicions that it was likely a bearing. So onto my next question, has anyone ever taken the main spindle out of one of theses machines? I believe it's as simple as (haha, right?) taking off my collars from either side, taking a snap ring off in the gear box and whacking it through the gearbox? I'm hoping that when I get the spindle out, all the planets will align and I will see a clearly warn bearing and just screaming to be replaced...



I just bought a g4003g
I'm watching this thread
& searching for anything here on this lathe to gain info on all things g4003g
hope it's a quick fix buddy:allgood:


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## gdu

Grizzly Tech support should be able to give you a step by step guide via email. Review their procedure to make sure it makes sense. Check youtube to see if you can find any vids for any 12x36 spindle bearing change. 

Bearing failure should be reflected by high radial or axial movement of your chuck/spindle if you prise it with a short (24") lever. You should also see some "cuttings" (metal particles) at the bottom of the oil sump.

I am surprised that your bearings have gone already. Did you follow the break in  procedure for the headstock with an oil change after 2 hours or so of running? I have a G4003. I removed the cover and cleaned the bottom of the sump after the run in period. I found a fair amount of cuttings. I put in some magnets to catch anything I could not get out or formed during regular use.

MK


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## Jamespvill

:whiteflag: <---- Thats me, waiving the white flag and hoping that the lathe fairy will come down and fix my lathe. So I pulled out my spindle, popped out my bearings and races, both were unevenly worn and there were some scratches in the races. (Yay! This must be my problem, right?!) So I went and picked up brand new Timken bearings and races. Oddly enough the smaller one was made in Poland and the larger in Italy. I replaced them and threw the machine back together and........No better. Albeit, the lathe is quieter now, but the chatter and poor finishes still remain. 


I have no doubt that when I finally do solve my problem, Im most likely going to feel quite silly. So I suppose I start from square one again now that I just shat $120 worth of bearings away. (Anyone want any NSK Japan made bearings?)

Add on top of all of this, My classes just started today...Too bad the Grizzly folks don't have techs that will come out and check machines! 

My bearing replacement was rather wasteful but perhaps I'll post a full write up with pictures of the process if anyone is interested. 

Also...Anyone interested in a used Grizzly 4003G Lathe? :lmao:


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## coolidge

I'd be interesting in hearing more about the bearing swap, it sounds like it wasn't that eventful. Did you ever try a face cut to see if its chattering? Divide and conquer, there's only a few things it could be so having eliminated the spindle and the chuck that doesn't leave too many things. Determining if it chatters on both OD turning and face cuts or not will give you more information. Have you adjusted the cross slide brass nut? Next I would look at the carriage, mine is brand spanking new and the carriage already moves too easily imo. Does it chatter turning in both left and right directions?


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## gdu

Please post the bearing changeout pics. That way we can benefit from your hard work. I was not able to find any bearing change for this model documented online.

MK


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## Jamespvill

Since I'm in an unfortunate lathe-limbo at the current point and time and find myself with an additional bit of knowledge, I figure I'll share it with the masses! Here's a short write-up of how to take the spindle out of a G4003G lathe. I wasn't planning on turning the project into a post, but since I find myself with a few pictures and a serious lack of lathe work to do...you get it...

So first and foremost, there is a cover on both ends of the spindle, these both need to be less attached to the machine than they are shipped as. The rear spindle cover comes right off with four screws, underneath the cover there should be two nuts for the spindle. Mine has one nut that is a funky split deal with two set screws. This comes off by loosening the set screws and with the persuasion of a hammer and chisel. The manual states that either this method can be used or ideally, use a spanner that is the appropriate size or build one. The front cover can not be completely removed at this time because it is sandwiched between the chuck mount and the machine.






From here, we need to remove the cover of the gear box, drain the oil and stair in aww of the massive glitter show that is awaiting us at the bottom of our gearbox. It's worth noting that I followed all the steps when I first got my machine to flush all the metal shavings out of the gearbox, and yet they still remain in large numbers...




There is also a snap ring that retains the three gears closest to the chuck of the machine. This needs to be removed from it's groove and shifted over. 

At this point in time a hammer and a block of wood are required. Give the outside end of the spindle a sharp whack with the block and hammer combo to introduce a little bit end-play. Once you feel some endplay, continue giving the spindle some love. After an inch or so the back bearing should fall right out. Make sure put something between the spindle and bearing race if you plan to reuse those. A few more taps and the front bearing will be separated from it's race, once again protect your race if need be.  

At this point the largest gear is the only thing holding you back. Keep tapping away and soon enough the large gear will slide freely. Your spindle is free!






Sorry about the sideways pictures...

Make sure to note the order of gears and also be careful of the keyways in the spindle, they were loose in mine and were ready to fall out. It's also beneficial to note the orientation of the keyways.

This is a fantastic opportunity to completely clean out your gearbox of it's floor decorations. 

My bearing races were warn quite unevenly and had a few fairly deep scratches in them. The shavings had their way with them apparently. My bearings were also warn slightly and had a few scratches in them. Nothing that screamed "super chatter" though...







Here are the details of one of the bearings, I didn't take a photo of the other apparently...




To get the bearing off the spindle a press was used, I was able to lay the bearing cover on my press blocks and press strait down to get it off. All went well without a hiccup.

I also took the races off because If I was replacing the one thing, might as well cover everything. These are simply tapped out via a punch and hammer. Just walk the punch around the perimeter and it comes out fairly easy. I was surprised by how horrible the finish and material was under the races...





From here, a brand new set of bearing and races was purchased. Timkens were my nearest choice so I went with those. Interestingly enough, one was made in Poland and the other in Italy. Quite the different location from the US, which is where I was told they were made by the bearing professional. Details in the picture...





I threw the races in the freezer for a few hours and they popped right into their appropriate holes without fuss. The larger bering needed to be pressed onto the spindle so I used the old race as support and on it went. From here is the hardest part for me. The spindle is reinserted into the gearbox and the gears are place on, the largest gear is a very tight fit so it needed to be persuaded all the way on by a small brass hammer. Little by little it went on.

This was probably the most time-consuming also because it's in such a hard to reach area. But after awhile its on. Then get everything in place, _REAPPLY THE SNAP RING_, and put the outer bearing in place, followed by the bearing nut. Then adjust the preload, seal everything up and enjoy your fantastic new bearings accompanied by your spectacular new finish! 




Wait, What? Crap!! Well if you look closely you can see that my finish is still poo and it sounds of a faint screaming child...
Anywho, the procedure is the same whether it fixes your problem or not! Let me know if I left anything important out,  I can always post more details or additional photos. 
*
Enjoy!



*


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## coolidge

Thanks James, I was hoping it was easier than that but educational. Is that electrical cord clamp on a clump of loose wires instead of the outer cord jacket?


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## dan12

Jamespvill said:


> :whiteflag: <----   perhaps I'll post a full write up with pictures of the process if anyone is interested.
> 
> Also...Anyone interested in a used Grizzly 4003G Lathe? :lmao:




I would like to see that,thx !


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## kd4gij

When you did the new bearings did you do a runin. Run with no load for a couple of hours the let cool and retightin the bearings. I always do that for spindle bearings.


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## Ray C

I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way but, by any chance did you have a head crash or change a gear while the unit was spinning fast or under load?  Less likely but worth asking, did you ever stomp on the brake pedal while turning a heavy piece of stock?   Have you ever had a lockup of the side gears?  These or similar events could lead to a bent spindle or some other shaft in the system.  Any shaft that's riding on two bearings needs to be drop-dead straight.  When spun by hand, does anything feel unusual -perhaps a tightness followed by a smoother feeling during one complete revolution of the spindle?  How do the teeth look on all the gears; did you inspect them very closely?  Does any gear appear to have skewed teeth?  Does any gear appear to have an uncentered hole?  When run without a chuck installed, does the machine show (or have audible sound) of any kind of cyclic vibration or rhythm? 

Also, as far as the split collar to lock the spindle... that's actually a good mechanism -better than a collar with a set screw that digs into the threads.  It's also more precise (and a little more expensive) than a double-nut collar -which is harder to adjust the preload.

Ray


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## coolidge

Ray I believe he said its never been damaged. I think KD is on the right track, immediately after the bearing replacement the chatter went away, then after light use it returned. Like KD I'm wondering if he did a run in then reset the preload again because if it loosened up a bit again it makes sense that the chatter would return. Agree with you the split nut looks like an upgrade over a couple spanner nuts.


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## Jamespvill

coolidge said:


> Thanks James, I was hoping it was easier than that but educational. Is that electrical cord clamp on a clump of loose wires instead of the outer cord jacket?




Hehe, About that.... :whistle:

I promise when I originally wired it that it was supposed to be temporary! 

Last year when I went to go help my Dad rewire some of his rental homes I walked into the room and he immediately yelled, "Shhh! Shhh! don't move!" Then he pointed at an extension cord that had been stripped and each wire independently jammed into an outlet. "I ran out of plugs." He claimed..."It's only 120 anyways"! 

While I usually try to abide by all regulations and common sense when it comes to wiring, sometimes I fail...then post it on a forum and feel a little bit silly!


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## Jamespvill

coolidge said:


> Ray I believe he said its never been damaged. I think KD is on the right track, immediately after the bearing replacement the chatter went away, then after light use it returned. Like KD I'm wondering if he did a run in then reset the preload again because if it loosened up a bit again it makes sense that the chatter would return. Agree with you the split nut looks like an upgrade over a couple spanner nuts.




I may have mistyped, But after the bearing replacement nothing changed. I believe that I wrote that it made my machine run a little quieter, but the chatter still remains.

I ran the machine for 20 minutes at it's highest speed with the preload set. Then went back an hour or so later to retighten. I immediately noticed some addition resistance when spinning the chuck, which told me I was at too much preload. I did some turning at this setting and the chatter remained.

All this leads me to believe that I might be able to completely negate the spindle, bearings, and preload from the equation. Maybe...

Anyway heres where I find myself now... 




This is 316 SS, while it is a hard material, I used to get very smooth and almost mirror finish results with my current setup. This was a carbide insert tool at 600 rpms running .0044 in/rev. I would expect the lines in the material at a higher feed rate, but if you get up close and personal to the photo, you can also see small chatter marks...those I don't expect at any speed with a proper setup. There is also a quite squealing on the material. Oddly enough, my finish is even worse in aluminum. 

Hey coolidge, want to take the 9-hour round trip and come fix my lathe for me? )


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## coolidge

Jamespvill said:


> Hey coolidge, want to take the 9-hour round trip and come fix my lathe for me? )



Hell no, you have a lathe jinx on you. *Forum Warning:* Avoid (points at James) :LOL:


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## kd4gij

Do you have any viberation in the lathe? Have you moved the lathe location or added enything. Any new equipment with large power transfomer running. If nothing has changed use the live center cranked pritty tight. If you still have chatter then it is in the too down squealing is usley tool set above center or dull. aAlso try 200 to 300 rpm 600 might be to fast for 316.


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## dave2176

The bearings that came out of it were clearly marked as NSK P5 grade bearings. The bearings that replaced them are ISOClass Timken bearings. That only means they follow that specification of measurements. While Timken leads the charge on quality, those bearings are not identified within the Timken high precision catalog. Rather they are in the standard bearing catalog and while I haven't finished reading the 800+ page catalog looking for clues about their ratings, it appears they do not carry an ABEC or ISO P rating of any kind. I would suggest replacing them with at least ABEC 5 or P5 bearings. Timken has this to say about downgrading bearings: 

"it is not recommended to ﬁt standard class bearings in place of the original precision ones. This practice would most likely result in uncontrolled movements of the spindle due to the higher runout of standard bearings. This can lead to poor accuracy of machined pieces and premature tool wear."

Best of luck,
Dave


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## Jamespvill

kd4gij said:


> Do you have any viberation in the lathe? Have you moved the lathe location or added enything. Any new equipment with large power transfomer running. If nothing has changed use the live center cranked pritty tight. If you still have chatter then it is in the too down squealing is usley tool set above center or dull. aAlso try 200 to 300 rpm 600 might be to fast for 316.




I had very little vibration prior to the machine having this issue. Since it started, it's now on rubber feet and I have even less vibration. I have turned a piece with my live center much tighter than I prefer and the problem still remains. Ive also checked and rechecked for tool height, its right on center, and Ive tried below and above center, no difference. I have also used a new side of a indexable carbide insert with each subsequent test (I'm almost out of unused bits by now!) Different speeds and feeds also result in the same poor finish. Oddly enough, when I turn 1018, I don't get much squeal but the finish is so rough that I could use the piece as a fine rasp for wood. 

While I am by no means a seasoned professional in the shop I used to manage fantastic finishes with all of these feeds and speed. Heck, I had to try hard to even get a bad finish on most materials. Thats what concerns me the most...


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## coolidge

James I'll ask again, does it chatter taking a face cut?


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## Jamespvill

dave2176 said:


> The bearings that came out of it were clearly marked as NSK P5 grade bearings. The bearings that replaced them are ISOClass Timken bearings. That only means they follow that specification of measurements. While Timken leads the charge on quality, those bearings are not identified within the Timken high precision catalog. Rather they are in the standard bearing catalog and while I haven't finished reading the 800+ page catalog looking for clues about their ratings, it appears they do not carry an ABEC or ISO P rating of any kind. I would suggest replacing them with at least ABEC 5 or P5 bearings. Timken has this to say about downgrading bearings:
> 
> "it is not recommended to ﬁt standard class bearings in place of the original precision ones. This practice would most likely result in uncontrolled movements of the spindle due to the higher runout of standard bearings. This can lead to poor accuracy of machined pieces and premature tool wear."
> 
> Best of luck,
> Dave




Keep in mind I have just about 0 knowledge of bearings past that of what they are intended to do. I called up my "local" (1.5 hour round trip) bearing supply store and talked to a gentlemen who guaranteed me that not only were Timken's the best in the world, but also that they were the best bearing to be putting in my lathe. 

Now with this nugget of knowledge, I don't think I approve of that mans business practice...I highly doubt that they take back used bearings either! I also brought my other bearings in and he guaranteed me that those bearings were no good anymore. I have a few colorful words that I would like to share with him now that I think of it.

So now I'm curious about bearings... What is the general opinion of Japanese-made NSK bearings? Im assuming the class is the quality, but what is ISOclass then? Is there a generally agreed-upon order of what bearings are the best for lathes and precision equipment? 

Thanks for the information, Although it does make me a little more frustrated, new information always falls on welcoming ears for me. 


On a side note; Although these bearings aren't the appropriate ones for my machine, it didn't change the performance of it in either a negative or positive way, so Im hoping that the bearings weren't the problem to start with.

Also, should I put my old ones back in then?

- - - Updated - - -



coolidge said:


> James I'll ask again, does it chatter taking a face cut?




Oops, I may have neglected that one! But yes it does. It chatters on a face cut going in or coming out. It also chatters when going left or right when doing OD turning. I've completely locked my cross feed and compound for cuts and that makes no difference. I've also applied quite a bit of pressure to the carriage lock for cuts, once again, no difference. 

Sorry I missed that one!


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## Jamespvill

I receive a PM from another user saying that he had the same problem and it ended up being a crack in the crossslides casting...Gonna have to double check that I don't have any cracks in my machine.


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## coolidge

Look inside both lathe stand cabinets, if there is a weird looking creature living in there I think you found the problem...Gremlin. lol I don't know man I'm baffled. This is about the time I would get major PO'd, start cussing and rip everything apart to inspect and clean.


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## Ray C

The bearings you pulled out were worn/damaged.  Even after long years of service, the races should be polished looking like chrome.  Your old ones were scuffed-up.  All that glitter in your oil that you reported was probably ground-up bearing material.  -Either that or a bad gear.  After my 1st oil change, there was nothing in the way of glitter in the oil.

I don't know how it would happen but, I almost think your spindle is bent.  Maybe it was born that way and first now wore-out the bearings enough to show symptoms.  A bent shaft causes all kinds of hell on taper bearings.  Another possibility is that the casting holes are not even and the shaft is spinning at an overall angle.  This too will damage taper bearings because they cannot tolerate anything but perfectly aligned axial or radial forces.  Angular force is a no-no for taper bearings and that's why they make angular force bearings that can tolerate up to 10 degrees of motion.

High precision bearings are a different breed of animal.  Here's a good link that gives some insight:  http://www.skf.com/group/products/b...es/bearing-data-general/tolerances/index.html  Most of the bearings I'm familiar with for lathes that size cost well over $200 each (closer to $300) and I was very surprised about the price you got them for.

How old or how many hours of use are on the machine?  And just for the sake of completeness, do all the leadscrews and feed rods spin OK by hand?  -Really more a question out of curiosity but at this stage of the game, we can't rule-out anything.


...  Checking the machine for cracks was a good suggestion.  Also, have you checked the hold-down tabs underneath the carriage?  There are tabs that keep it from coming up.  There should only be about 1-2 thou clearance and they are shimmed at the factory.  -Just check e'm to be sure.


Ray


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## Jamespvill

Well it's good to know that my previous bearings were actually damaged to the point of needing repair. 

I had assumed that the glitter party at the bottom of my gearbox was just residual machining material that never found it's way out after the first few flushes...I have changed my oil 6 times up to this point I do believe.

I originally called Grizzly see what the cost of replacement bearings would be, I was told around $40 for the small and $80 for the larger. So I wasn't at all concerned when the Timkens were just a few dollars more expensive. I assumed that Grizzly was actually over-charging for their bearings, as they do with a lot of their accessories. Now that I know the price should have exceeded $400 for the pair, I'm...in a word; confused. 

When not engaged both the feed rod and the lead screw spin very freely. I cant find any hold-down tabs that you mentioned. The manual refers to this guy as the carriage gib though. Thats been tightened very tight and no difference. 




Oh...It's upside down...thats nice. Anywho...Imagine thats the back of the carriage, and also imagine that It's also a lot less upside down. Also, While your at it, Imagine the machine that is attached to is providing its owner with nice finishes on its work.

I've had the lathe since August of 2012, brand new and a painful experience from my pocket at the time. On a active month it gets 40-70 hours on it, on a slow month it gets less than 30 usually. All machining is done by me, no one else touches my machine! I think the rest of my family is too scared after I almost lopped off two of my fingers with it.


Haha! Just found this;   My Lathe ----> :*****slap2: <---- Me


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## Ray C

Jamespvill said:


> Well it's good to know that my previous bearings were actually damaged to the point of needing repair.
> 
> I had assumed that the glitter party at the bottom of my gearbox was just residual machining material that never found it's way out after the first few flushes...I have changed my oil 6 times up to this point I do believe.
> 
> I originally called Grizzly see what the cost of replacement bearings would be, I was told around $40 for the small and $80 for the larger. So I wasn't at all concerned when the Timkens were just a few dollars more expensive. I assumed that Grizzly was actually over-charging for their bearings, as they do with a lot of their accessories. Now that I know the price should have exceeded $400 for the pair, I'm...in a word; confused.
> 
> When not engaged both the feed rod and the lead screw spin very freely. I cant find any hold-down tabs that you mentioned. The manual refers to this guy as the carriage gib though. Thats been tightened very tight and no difference.
> 
> View attachment 73881
> 
> 
> Oh...It's upside down...thats nice. Anywho...Imagine thats the back of the carriage, and also imagine that It's also a lot less upside down. Also, While your at it, Imagine the machine that is attached to is providing its owner with nice finishes on its work.
> 
> I've had the lathe since August of 2012, brand new and a painful experience from my pocket at the time. On a active month it gets 40-70 hours on it, on a slow month it gets less than 30 usually. All machining is done by me, no one else touches my machine! I think the rest of my family is too scared after I almost lopped off two of my fingers with it.
> 
> 
> Haha! Just found this;   My Lathe ----> :*****slap2: <---- Me




Yes, that's the rear jib.  Unless the design is different, there should be two smaller tabs in the front (one on left side, other on right side).  Kinda hard to get them out but unless you take the carriage off, you won't need to.  Lift up on the carriage.  You shouldn't be able to lift it any appreciable amount.  The tabs should roughly be a near zero-tolerance fit that still allows the carriage to traverse freely.  Same for the rear one.

Do an experiment for me...  lightly apply your carriage lock just enough so there's a little resistance but still lets the carriage move then, take a cut.  Let me know if you still get the chatter.

What's the material you're cutting?  type of cutter?  Looks like carbide cut with a slight chip in the insert.  Just entertain my questions if you don't mind.  There's always a possibility we're chasing 2 (or more) problems and I'm ruling things out.


Ray


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## Jamespvill

Ray C said:


> Yes, that's the rear jib.  Unless the design is different, there should be two smaller tabs in the front (one on left side, other on right side).  Kinda hard to get them out but unless you take the carriage off, you won't need to.  Lift up on the carriage.  You shouldn't be able to lift it any appreciable amount.  The tabs should roughly be a near zero-tolerance fit that still allows the carriage to traverse freely.  Same for the rear one.
> 
> Do an experiment for me...  lightly apply your carriage lock just enough so there's a little resistance but still lets the carriage move then, take a cut.  Let me know if you still get the chatter.
> 
> What's the material you're cutting?  type of cutter?  Looks like carbide cut with a slight chip in the insert.  Just entertain my questions if you don't mind.  There's always a possibility we're chasing 2 (or more) problems and I'm ruling things out.
> 
> 
> Ray



Okay, I must have missed the tabs then. Regardless, when the problem first started I lifted up on the carriage to see if it was loose at all, no movement that I can tell. 

When checking all the gibs and locking the crossfeed and compund down I also tightened the cariage lock down too, then did some turning by and and auto feed. No noticeable difference.

My first thought was chipped carbide insert also, so I swapped it out. Every single test I am doing I am also swapping to a brand new edge, Im due to run out of new edges very soon. 

Here are the photos that I sent off to Grizzly tech support of my finishes that I am getting on a variety of flavors. While it is by no means the worst finish in the world, it is nothing like it used to be and there are deep lines and chatter on the piece. Even on 12L14 and Aluminum where I used to get magnificent finishes...I now get rough and unacceptable finishes. I can't even fathom sending out a barrel with these finishes on them! Anywho, the pictures below show 316 SS, 6061 Alu, and 304 SS, respectively. Three cuts on each at 10, 20, and 30 thou depths. All at 600 RPMs (Not exactly the appropriate speeds, but It worked perfect before) and at .0044 inch/rev. The SS was cut with a SS specific insert and the Aluminum was cut with an aluminum specific insert. 
















(EDIT) Looking back at all of those cuts, I realize they all scream "Chipped Insert!" but I promise, that is not the case, Pinky promise! I feel like Ive eaten up a lot of everyones time for it to be something that simple, And I have been running my lathe almost daily for the last year and half, I would certainly hope something that simple wouldn't stump me that easily.


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## kd4gij

Timken is one of the top bearings. What your bearind guy sold you is wheel bearings.http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tmk-30212m?seid=srese1&gclid=CPb-1OD2yr0CFeJF7AodGVcAPQ
Here is a spindle Bearing.http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/221316731899?lpid=82

Put a DTI on your spindle and check it for end play and runnout.


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## Ray C

Couple other things to check...

Remove the dials from your crossfeed and compound -don't lose the little tensioning tab between the dial and the slip collar.  Make sure the plate (behind the radial thrust bearings) that holds the ACME screws are tight.   The acme screw for the x-feed has a split tab it threads into... adjust the set screw in the split tab to remove the backlash.  You can remove the little tab by unscrewing the ACME screw then, unscrew the cap screw that's in front of the tool post.  The tab will drop right out. Also make sure the screw that holds the tab through the top of the x-feed is tight when you put it back in (this can cause all kinds of weird problems if it's loose).

If that doesn't get rid of the chatter, I'd take the whole compound off, inspect and clean everything.  It's not hard to take the compound off.  Remove the x-feed plate first to reduce weight (BE CAREFUL... Wear heavy gloves.  The dovetail edges are sharp).

I still think there are 2 issues.  One is the compound or cross slide.  Something is caught in the ways and it's not sitting flat or, there's excess clearance somewhere.  Taking a test cut with the carriage lock partially engaged will help rule-out things.

The bearings just went bad for some reason.  The dull finish on the race and visible lines in the rollers should not look like that.

Just out of curiosity, have you cut any other type of material?  That piece in the picture looks like SS and if you're using raw carbide instead of TiN or TiALN you can get an ugly finish like that and it even gives a little chatter too.  That could be what's setting up the vibration and other factors with the compound, carriage of crossfeed are resonating.


Ray


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## Ray C

Gotta go sleep now.  Maybe the lathe fairy will give me the answer in the morning...

- - - Updated - - -



kd4gij said:


> Timken is one of the top bearings. What your bearind guy sold you is wheel bearings.http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tmk-30212m?seid=srese1&gclid=CPb-1OD2yr0CFeJF7AodGVcAPQ
> Here is a spindle Bearing.http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/221316731899?lpid=82
> 
> Put a DTI on your spindle and check it for end play and runnout.



I can't get a solid ID on the Timken types he purchased and they're rated under a different ISO spec that cost > 100 bucks to download.  I'm curious but not at that expense...  Most precision bearings in the 2.5" range are pretty darn expensive but, I'm not yet willing to cry foul on the ones he's got until all my facts are lined-up.

I'm arranging some replacement bearings for a little 11" swing lathe and they're $200 (wholesale price).

Ray


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## Jamespvill

Ray C said:


> Couple other things to check...
> 
> Remove the dials from your crossfeed and compound -don't lose the little tensioning tab between the dial and the slip collar.  Make sure the plate (behind the radial thrust bearings) that holds the ACME screws are tight.   The acme screw for the x-feed has a split tab it threads into... adjust the set screw in the split tab to remove the backlash.  You can remove the little tab by unscrewing the ACME screw then, unscrew the cap screw that's in front of the tool post.  The tab will drop right out. Also make sure the screw that holds the tab through the top of the x-feed is tight when you put it back in (this can cause all kinds of weird problems if it's loose).
> 
> If that doesn't get rid of the chatter, I'd take the whole compound off, inspect and clean everything.  It's not hard to take the compound off.  Remove the x-feed plate first to reduce weight (BE CAREFUL... Wear heavy gloves.  The dovetail edges are sharp).
> 
> I still think there are 2 issues.  One is the compound or cross slide.  Something is caught in the ways and it's not sitting flat or, there's excess clearance somewhere.  Taking a test cut with the carriage lock partially engaged will help rule-out things.
> 
> The bearings just went bad for some reason.  The dull finish on the race and visible lines in the rollers should not look like that.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, have you cut any other type of material?  That piece in the picture looks like SS and if you're using raw carbide instead of TiN or TiALN you can get an ugly finish like that and it even gives a little chatter too.  That could be what's setting up the vibration and other factors with the compound, carriage of crossfeed are resonating.
> 
> 
> Ray




I completely disassembled the crossfeed and compound prior to replacing the bearings. There was nothing that appeared to be out of the norm. It was all cleaned deeply and reassemble. I'll follow your advice and adjust the backlash and everything else on the crossfeed and x-feed, then take everything apart again for deeper inspection if the problem remains. 

For All SS my bits are TiN coated, and always have been. I also use the same bits on 1018 and every other steel that isn't aluminum, bronze, copper, or magnesium. What concerns me the most is my tooling has literally been the exact same since I was using my G0602 prior to buying my G4003G.

_I did blow up a parting tool bit about a month and a half or so ago when I was parting some 1018. Turns out it had a HUGE air gap in it.
_
I had completely forgotten about that, It was a great exercise for the sphincter muscle and I think I unconsciously forced it to the back of my memory. 

Perhaps I jammed something out of place or loose with that pop? I wouldn't think so, but every bit of info helps, right?

- - - Updated - - -



Ray C said:


> Gotta go sleep now.  Maybe the lathe fairy will give me the answer in the morning...
> 
> Ray




Enjoy your slumber, perhaps an epiphany awaits you on the other side...


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## dave2176

kd4gij said:


> Timken is one of the top bearings. What your bearind guy sold you is wheel bearings.http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tmk-30212m?seid=srese1&gclid=CPb-1OD2yr0CFeJF7AodGVcAPQ
> Here is a spindle Bearing.http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/221316731899?lpid=82
> 
> Put a DTI on your spindle and check it for end play and runnout.



I agree, check runout. If it is within 5 tenths put the bearings aside for now and examine the carriage. If the runout is more, check into better bearings but you may still have a carriage issue. 

In your bearing number X = ISO part number, M means through hardened. I couldn't make out the other symbols in the picture (is one of them a D?) but they may provide a clue. Did you measure the old bearings, each race separate and then combined? The 30212 bearing you have is wider at 23.75mm than the spindle bearing above 22mm claims to be and the high precision ones I can find in the Timken catalog are narrower as well. Could be different measuring methods.

In Timken they list high precision metric bearings as classes C, B, A and AA where C = ABEC 5 = P5, B = ABEC 7 = P4, A = ABEC 9 = P2 and AA = probably cheaper to buy the space shuttle.

Dave


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## coolidge

James after you blew up the parting tool did you notice any increased backlash (slop) in the cross feed or carriage dials? For example the cross feed should be .002 as you turn the dial back and forth within the backlash zone, did this increase?


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## Ray C

Nope... No visit from the lathe fairy -just a dopey feeling all over and the usual sore joints and sore hands...

EDIT:  The coffee is working.  Judge Wapner is clear enough to render a decision (or a theory anyhow):

If the carriage x-feed and compound are removed, inspected and re-adjusted -and if the problem persists, my guess is that your spindle is bent.   The parting blade event is probably the catalyst.  It's good to know there was an unusual event but sadly it doesn't directly point to what may have been damaged -only helps develop theories...

If the spindle is being driven and the chuck suddenly stops, the spindle gets a good twist/torque put on it (this by the way is why I always run my lathe with just one drive belt and I don't tighten the daylights out of it to allow it to slip in the event of an issue).   When you're parting, you're in low gear that has the highest torque potential...  If the spindle is bent, it will wobble when rotated.  The inner race of the bearings are seated flat to the spindle and the outer races are firmly planted in the gearbox.  This means that the bearings are forced to spin with a wobble inside their races -and that will kill a bearing in no time at all.  A wobbling spindle may (but not always) interrupt the forces of a cut so the bit is constantly, partially disengaging and re-engaging the material.  -That might be the cause of the chatter.  It may or may-not be measurable at the rotation point of the spindle face -just the same way a cock-eyed piece in a chuck can read zero at one location and show a big +/- an inch away.

Try measuring spindle RO at the outside then, remove the cover and measure the RO at several places along the length of the spindle.  That will tell you if it's wobbling.

I'm fresh out of theories (and coffee) for now...


Ray


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## Don B

Sorry to see your having so much trouble with this, I know it can be frustrating.
Do you happen to have a test indicator that measures .0001 or if possible maybe you can borrow one, chuck a piece of some nice ground stock and slap the indicator on it, spin it slow and watch for any quick bouncing in the indicator needle, I know you might see run out but if it's a smooth transition on the indicator keep going and see if you can detect any point where the needle takes sharp jumps, spin it quit a few times and watch close, this problem your having sound so much like a bearing problem and there's some kind of resonance building up, you'd not be the first person to purchase a bearing that's not quit right.
There's been a lot of good input here, this is just a thought and something you could try.
Good Luck..!


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## kd4gij

When he first adjusted the preload on the stock bearing he said the chatter wen't away for a couple of days.At this point I would pull the spindle and set it up on V blocks or better yet make up a quick bench center and check it for runout at the taper if on V blocks or center if on bench centers. If the spindle is with in a few tenths than bearings would be the suspect. The number on the timpkin bearings come up as for power transmission and wheel bearings when I googled the numpers. A standerd class bearing.


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## Don B

kd4gij said:


> When he first adjusted the preload on the stock bearing he said the chatter wen't away for a couple of days.At this point I would pull the spindle and set it up on V blocks or better yet make up a quick bench center and check it for runout at the taper if on V blocks or center if on bench centers. If the spindle is with in a few tenths than bearings would be the suspect. The number on the timpkin bearings come up as for power transmission and wheel bearings when I googled the numpers. A standerd class bearing.



Very good point, and seems to suggest the bearings didn't take long to demonstrate why there standard class, I'm curious why an experienced bearing retailer would sell a standard class bearing for this application..?


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## Jamespvill

kd4gij said:


> When he first adjusted the preload on the stock bearing he said the chatter wen't away for a couple of days.At this point I would pull the spindle and set it up on V blocks or better yet make up a quick bench center and check it for runout at the taper if on V blocks or center if on bench centers. If the spindle is with in a few tenths than bearings would be the suspect. The number on the timpkin bearings come up as for power transmission and wheel bearings when I googled the numpers. A standerd class bearing.




In hindsight, I may have gotten over-excited at the time and overlooked some less-than-perfect finish at the time. It's probably best if we pretend that tightening the preload the first time did nothing... :whistle:

Anyways, I'm taking Sunday off to rest my tired noggin...I'll restart my trouble-shooting come monday. Enjoy your Sunday everyone!


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## Jamespvill

So today was fairly busy and I didn't get to tinker with my lathe until this evening. I decided to strip her down naked and inspect anything and everything. First I took some readings on my spindle though. On the outside end I have right about a half-thou of runout, same exact results on the chuck end. I didn't take any readings in between, but will soon. 

Taking the carriage off was was a bit of a task, but nothing out of the realm of possibility.



I assumed that because the bed is ground to precise dimensions and finish I would assume that anything else sliding on it would share the same properties. Maybe this is the wrong thought process, because when I flipped the carriage over to inspect the finish I was very surprised...




It appears as though they took the "out of sight, out of mind" approach to this particular process. In short, I was not a very happy chappy when I saw this. I know what a properly piece of scraped metal is supposed to look like, this looks like a horribly cast hunk of metal that was ground the least amount humanly possible and then had a hammer taken to it in a fit of lathe-making rage. Perhaps I have no idea what Im talking about, but It appears as though this is not good for precision machine-work. 

Out of curiosity I decided to cover everything with dykem to see where it was actually contacting. I put it back together, ran it up and down the bed a few dozen times and then pulled it off....



Im not sure If I should be PO'd about these results or not...But I am. While this isn't something that could have changed in the last few weeks to cause a deterioration in machine work finish, I still believe it's a problem. I took some 1000 grit sand paper wrapped around my buddies small precision ground block and went up and down the surfaces a few time to knock down the high spots a bit. I put everything back together and cut some aluminum, the surface finish was better. But still not back to it's original glory.

Im to the point where I feel like putting the dang thing up for sale, informing the buyer of it's shortcoming and buying something else...Maybe just hanging up metal for for good! 

Not really of course! I love metal work, But I currently hate my lathe and may put it up for sale soon if it doesn't decide to stop being so pissy! 

Anywho....on a less negative note; I made a bunch of aluminum chips working on a tool to cut down .223 brass, that was relaxing and made me happy. )


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## coolidge

I don't know James, a half assed attempt at way scraping? The idea behind way scraping is to create valleys for oil and reduce friction e.g. reduce surface contact points but that would have to be like the worst example of way scraping I ever saw. Honestly I would be sending a photo of that to Grizzly and require them to explain it. I'm tempted to pull my carriage off now and have a look.


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## Ray C

The truth is, that's the style of "scraping" you'll find on virtually all Chinese machines.  When I had my unit apart last year, I checked mine with dykem too and if I had to guess would say it was giving 40-50% contact.  And to be specific, one side was probably 40% and the other 50.  In any event, that style of "scraping" is in-use on about 10,000 of these lathes per year -and has been for the past 15-20 years or so...  The style is crude -but it works.  If it was totally ineffective, these machines would have gone extinct a long time ago.

Things improve as you go up in price range of course and if you want better scraping, better look to a Taiwanese machine costing 25% more...


Ray


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## Ray C

I spoke with Matt about this and he thinks we've just about covered everything but, there are two more things to check.  He had two difficult situations and it turned-out to be something very unusual...

He had one machine that had a bad motor.  It seemed to run fine but under any load it had a vibration.  I'm guessing one of the brushes or commutator was bad.  -Replaced the motor, problem went away.

Another machine had a tiny piece of swarf stuck in the flat spot of one gear tooth.  It wasn't much more than a grain of sand but was embedded in the tooth.  It caused a vibration that showed-up in the cut.  He picked it out, filed it clean -problem solved.

As for carriage scraping...  The rear way path almost (figuratively speaking) doesn't matter.  I bears almost no force under cutting pressure -matter of fact, most force is lifted off the rear way.  Front ways always wear-out first because they bear the brunt of the forces.  Every old worn-out lathe I've seen (many, many of them) the front way is worn badly and the rear looks almost brand new.

Ray


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## chuckorlando

I would not be mad about the scraping. Truth is a great hand scrap job would run half the cost of that machine. At least out sourced. I would say it's par for the coarse on all the less expensive machines. New or used US or China. There is only so much that you can get for a dollar.

It is a good opportunity to learn a skill. Least thats my goal.


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## Dog

I posted on a similar situation I went through with this model lathe a while back which manifested itself in the finish of the threads especially. Here is a copy of my post which may be of interest to you...

"I had a G4003 lathe and (for the money) it had a lot going for it. We  should probably accept that at that price point perfection is going to  be hard to come by. That being said there were serious (to me anyway)  issues that need to be addressed. I too do gunsmith work from time to  time and the most maddening thing was thread cutting. Vibrations would  be transferred from the motor (which is mounted to the bed) into the  work piece. I could get a pretty nice surface finish while cutting  stock, but where it really had a problem was threading. The surface of  threads looked faceted! (really bad) What eventually solved the problem  was a combination of things. I had the motor rebuilt and balanced which  helped some then isolated the motor on anti vibration pads. That finally  got the threading to acceptable. If you do a search on this lathe  threading is a common problem that guys struggle with. There were other  things that needed to be sorted out but, unlike the threading issue,  would generally come under the heading of sorting out a new lathe. In  the end I sold the Griz. It just left a bad taste in my mouth after all I  went through with it and I got a good deal on another lathe that I have  been happy with. So, as with anything it depends on what your  expectations are. You can’t expect perfection for the price Griz gets  for these lathes. Expect the G4003 to be a “kit” with work needed in  some areas and you will probably be alright. By the way, it’s not just  Griz that has these types of issues with their Chinese lathes. A recent  search on line about Jet lathes was a real eye opener for me."


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## Jamespvill

I'll try these last few suggestions this evening, I've got a dozen or so parts that I need to crank out on my mill then anodize. 

I didn't think that my machine was the only one with this beautiful scraping, but it's just another thing that added to this whole adventure. Good point about all of the other machines having the exact same result workmanship, Ray. 

I was always under the impression that the 4003g was made in Taiwan?

This lathe was absolutely fantastic for the last 1.5 year, and I was very satisfied with it, so any of my anger with it as of late may not be fully justified. Unfortunately these last two weeks have really left a damper in my party. 

In the big picture of things, I suppose $3,100 is pretty darn cheap for a "man-lathe" maybe I'll upgrade to the $5,000 club.

Anywho....I'll post an update later in the day.


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## coolidge

James if you sell the Grizzly I recommend you get a Mori NL2000Y, then I could farm out some work to you. :ideas:

[video=youtube;zhkv-YjNdbw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhkv-YjNdbw&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]


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## Jamespvill

coolidge said:


> James if you sell the Grizzly I recommend you get a Mori NL2000Y, then I could farm out some work to you. :ideas:
> 
> [video=youtube;zhkv-YjNdbw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhkv-YjNdbw&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]




Now, now, I said I might be upgrading to the 5 grand club, not the 40 grand club! Although I can't deny the want to buy that.... I know matt over at Precision Mathews carries a CNC lathe for right around 16g. Maybe one day when I have the cash or a business plan with the ability to net all that cash back in a fairly short amount of time! Oh, but we can dream....


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## Jamespvill

Today I pulled everything off the lathe, the compound, cross feed, carriage, pulled the spindle out again, removed the motor, and completely re-leveled the lathe with rubber feet. I did a deep cleaning of the compound, cross feed, and carriage. When the motor is running all by itself it is quiet and vibrates very little. I remounted it with rubber spacers between it and the machine. I checked every gear in the gearbox and on the spindle, all in good condition. Unfortunately I don't have a proper setup to really get a super accurate reading by sweeping the spindle, but from what I can do, it did not appear bent. The bearings and races were still in pristine condition. All the bed is crack free, as are the compound, cross feed, and carriage. 

Everything went back together without a problem but the issue remains. 

I was on the phone with Grizzly tech support who were, as always very friendly and willing to help. Unfortunately after an hour or so there was no progress. I was told that they would get back to me tomorrow after they had some more time brainstorm and to look over the photos that I sent in.

I must be missing something....right?! Maybe? Well my buddy has the same lathe as I do, So maybe I'll give him a call and go do some comparisons...He is only a 5 minute drive from me.


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## chuckorlando

I would say you are missing something and it's not in the orig scrap job. Things dont go from nuts tight to shaky for no reason. Something has had to have changed. Even a part wearing normally dont go from ok to crap over night. It normally shows as it wears and gets worse as it wears.

I'm just not sure what your missing. It seems it's been asked and checked already for any idea I might have.

But from a mech back ground, i would look for bearings, bushings, and cracks. It seems something round is no longer round. I will ask our instructor tonight if maybe he has any idea's.


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## coolidge

About the only thing that's not been discussed is tooling, box of bad inserts? Chip stuck in the tool under the insert? I'm grasping at straws.


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## Jamespvill

Got ahold of Grizzly Tech support again, was told they still hadn't gotten around to looking further into my picture and problem...I'm getting a tinsy-weensy frustrated with them by now. As I did contact them and send in the pictures on friday. Oh well, all good things come in time? 

Anywho...All my bit's are brand-spanking new. I used a new side of one each time I tried something new. All the tooling was double and triple checked for proper functionality and it's all in good shape. Once I had a bit that was super loose in it's tool because the retaining screw threaded itself out, Its worth noting that even that gave me superior results to what I'm getting now. 

As mentioned, my buddy has the same lathe and he has also had it a year longer than I, he had some thread chatter issues when he first got it, but that was due to a loose leadscrew. Besides that, nothing is different, at least from what I can tell. 

Hopefully Grizzly calls me and says "A replacement is on the way!" Wouldn't that be a perfect world? I'm trying to imagine returning my current one though, the extent of my returns is small boxes from amazon, I can't exactly walk into UPS and ask for a box and some packing peanuts for my lathe.... "Just toss her up on that there scale!"


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## Ray C

I don't know if Grizzly offers service contracts but that is about the only thing that would partially help in this case.  Most machines are warrantied to cover exchange of defective parts.  Warranties do not cover labor to diagnose or perform the repairs -as that is the purpose of a service contract which are usually underwritten similar to insurance policies.  Your machine is well beyond the "premature mortality" period and in this case, it may have been the parting blade incident that triggered something to go wrong.  Even service contracts won't fully cover damage caused by metal-hitting-metal but rather, you'll get a discount on the hourly labor fee.  In a situation like this, I would not expect the dealer to suddenly offer-up a lifetime satisfaction guarantee.  In your shoes, I would check if your homeowner insurance policy will cover this.  For my business alone, I have three kinds of insurance policies -and one them covers accidental damage to the machines...


Ray


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## coolidge

James here's another idea, you could use a dial indicator to touch various components while its chattering to see if the needles flutters, probably start at the compound, then cross slide, then saddle, carriage, probe around the machine, at the slowest speed even the chuck, be safe don't take a dial indicator to the face. Maybe you can find what's loose and vibrating under load.


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## TomS

Have you checked your tool post since the parting tool incident?  The piston/wedge mechanism, or some other feature of the tool post, could have been distorted and is no longer clamping the tool holder securely.  Or it could be clamping the tool holder such that cutting tool clearances are affected.  

Tom S.


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## dave2176

Just had a thought. Back in the old timey days, mid 90's, we used a vibration meter to diagnose automobile vibrations. It would display the frequency of the vibration and we could use that to determine if it was at the speed of the wheel, driveshaft, engine or ? I wonder if something like that is available and useful in this case. Do you know any mechanics at dealerships you could ask if they have this type meter?
Dave


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## Jamespvill

So I was thinking that I could borrow my friend's toolpost from his machine to see if that was indeed the problem, then I realized that I could just borrow his whole carriage! Hehe...this is the best idea I've had in weeks! I would assume that If I swapped out my entire carriage with his and the problem continues then I would be able to factor out my entire carriage as a problem? Maybe? Then maybe I can convince him to let me borrow his spindle...just for a bit...:whistle:

Anywho, this makes me wonder if I could just swap parts until I find the culprit. That is until I mess his machine up!

I think I'll swap the toolpost first, then move onto dial indicating everything for vibration...then maybe get into that black magic that your mentioning Dave! 

Ray, I had no idea that homeowners insurance covered things of that nature. Perhaps I'll look into that, Although I vaguely remember seeing that our homeowners insurance covers event that occur within a certain area. I'm not sure of what this area is, but my shop is 100 or so feet away from our house. 

Regardless, I'm out of town until Friday afternoon so hopefully I'll have a rekindled spirit for more trouble-shooting by that time.

Enjoy your evening folks!


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## Jamespvill

I was able to swap out my toolpost and entire carriage with my friends. The problem persists.

Another one of my friends works for a fab shop where they need a roughing machine. I told him about mine and he is pretty sure his boss will buy it. I know him and he's willing to give me more than a fair price for it. So It looks like this bad boy will be going away from my shop and to another home within the next week or so. It's really too bad that I was never able to pinpoint the problem, and I'm certainly not a big fan of giving up on things. But at this point in time I feel beat down by my own machine, And It may win before it goes out my door. 

But with this farewell, there is a hello on the way...one that is beautifully blue, and has a larger bore on it. Stay tunes for that!

Since my production has come to somewhat of a standstill, I decided it was time to clean and rearrange my entire shop. This included giving my center island a nice white coat of paint and putting up some more shelves. Oh, and coolidge, if you look real close you can see some of that real special wiring that I'm so fond of in my shop :whistle: That will also be getting ratified in my lathe-limbo. 




Anywho, The girlfriend is opening her food truck on wednesday, so fancy and delicious food was in order for tonight. 




I'll post any new updates for the lathe, if there are any to come.


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## chuckorlando

Either way it goes I hope it works out best for you.

I will say that when I am looking for a sound or bad bearing I throw on the stethoscope or grab the heat gun. Heat gun will show a bad bearing or any rubbing part and the steth will blow your ear drums when it finds the wobble AHAHAHAHA. Vacuum leaks, metal on metal, loud bearing...... real handy tool


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## Ray C

Jamespvill said:


> Anywho, The girlfriend is opening her food truck on wednesday, so fancy and delicious food was in order for tonight.
> 
> View attachment 74327
> 
> 
> I'll post any new updates for the lathe, if there are any to come.



Any chance that food truck drives out to Maryland?

Ray


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## Walsheng

Jamespvill said:


> I was able to swap out my toolpost and entire carriage with my friends. The problem persists.
> 
> Another one of my friends works for a fab shop where they need a roughing machine. I told him about mine and he is pretty sure his boss will buy it. I know him and he's willing to give me more than a fair price for it. So It looks like this bad boy will be going away from my shop and to another home within the next week or so. It's really too bad that I was never able to pinpoint the problem, and I'm certainly not a big fan of giving up on things. But at this point in time I feel beat down by my own machine, And It may win before it goes out my door.
> 
> But with this farewell, there is a hello on the way...one that is beautifully blue, and has a larger bore on it. Stay tunes for that!
> 
> Since my production has come to somewhat of a standstill, I decided it was time to clean and rearrange my entire shop. This included giving my center island a nice white coat of paint and putting up some more shelves. Oh, and coolidge, if you look real close you can see some of that real special wiring that I'm so fond of in my shop :whistle: That will also be getting ratified in my lathe-limbo.
> 
> View attachment 74328
> 
> 
> Anywho, The girlfriend is opening her food truck on wednesday, so fancy and delicious food was in order for tonight.
> 
> View attachment 74327
> 
> 
> I'll post any new updates for the lathe, if there are any to come.



Well this is disappointing news (about the lathe, not the foo truck.)  I had my finger on the buy button for a D4003G and was following this thread with great interest.  I want to buy it to use, not as a project and I was very much hoping you would find a solution.  Now I am having second thoughts.
Goo luck with whatever you win up with and good luck with your girlfriend's food truck.

John


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## Jamespvill

Walsheng said:


> Well this is disappointing news (about the lathe, not the foo truck.)  I had my finger on the buy button for a D4003G and was following this thread with great interest.  I want to buy it to use, not as a project and I was very much hoping you would find a solution.  Now I am having second thoughts.
> Goo luck with whatever you win up with and good luck with your girlfriend's food truck.
> 
> John




John,

Perhaps my machine was just the luck of the draw, or perhaps my problem stems from my ignorance. Either way, I can't deny that my G4003G served me VERY well almost daily for the entire 1.5 years leading up to this. I know lots of folks on the forum absolutely love their 4003Gs and my friend also has one and had his before I did, he has had no problems this far. 

I am upgrading to a Precision Mathews machine for a few reasons. Firstly Matt, the owner, sent advise my way on things to look for when fixing my machine (A Grizzly). To me, that's simply a great guy who is willing to help weather it's his machine or his competition.That says something. 

Also, I think Precision Mathews is a quality over quantity situation whereas I believe that Grizzly is more about quantity. While there is nothing wrong with wanting to get quantity to the masses, sometimes we find that not 100% of the machines are up to snuff so there is that luck of the draw thing I mentioned. 

At no point in time has Grizzly wronged me, although they have yet to get back to me about the pictures I sent in. Regardless, they do stand by their warranties and the customer service is very friendly and seemingly knowledgable. I've now had one mill and two lathes from them, so obviously all machines aren't bad eggs. 

When I upgraded my mill to a PM932 I was originally going to go with Grizzly's "version" but it was out of stock so I looked elsewhere and found PM. I was none too impressed by their website as it certainly doesn't have all the bells, whistles, and eye-candy that Grizzly's does but when I called up I was met with nothing but above-and-beyond customer service. 

It became very clear to me that Matt at Precision Mathews has no interest in showy advertising or spending money on frivolous gimmicks, he is focused entirely on getting us the best possible machine for the money and making sure we are satisfied with it. 

Thats all untimely why I chose to go the PM route this time around with my lathe. I hope the above doesn't sound like i'm trying to advertise for PM, But I think if you talk to most PM owners, they will agree wholeheartedly. Perhaps thats why it's sometimes hard to get ahold of Matt's machines and why they sell out so quick.

Thanks for the good-luck wishes, I'll make sure and pass them on to the girlfriend!


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## Jamespvill

chuckorlando,
I've always heard that a stethoscope is a great tool to have on hand, I've always wanted one of those fancy cable camera thingies with the screen on them too...



Ray C said:


> Any chance that food truck drives out to Maryland?
> 
> Ray



That picture is actually a tiny sushi joint that we go to as often as we can manage. They've got a about 80 different things to order from and a fantastic sushi bar. 

Unfortunately her food truck is more of a food trailer but because of permitting its needs to be considered "mobile" but it's not _really_ going to be that mobile. Anywho, she worked at a gourmet winery and all-too fancy for my taste (Like $60-100 steaks and your not leaving for under a benji) restaurant since she was 16, three years later and she wants her own thing. It's a small start but luckily my mom owns a nursery that has been wildly successful for our area and the food trailer is smack dab in the center of all that action. She serves everything from kids menu to her take on gourmet foods. I probably shouldn't be advertising her food services on a machinist forum but we are all very excited! ) Here's the back end of the nursery and her food trailer, I'm not doing much justice to how beautiful the nursery is right now unfortunately, especially with that giant propane tank!



As for the lathe; it's officially out of my shop and setting in the garage. Here's a picture of the last bit of the extraction. I would have taken a few more pictures, but I think everybody gets the idea.



And it's new home for the time-being. I even found the little metal "STOP" tag it came with. It's resting on two Harbor Freight dollies, they are advertised as being rated for a grand, and I was happily surprised when they supported my lathe without a problem. 



Anything new and exciting happens, you'll certainly here about it! Don't have much going on except school for the next week or two :thinking:


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## chuckorlando

I buy my stethoscope from harbor freight. They have them with a long thin metal tip for getting into tight spots. One of them things you dont need till you need it


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## visenfile

This noob has read the thread with great interest.  Comments: Nowhere ( I think) was a definitve bearing tensioning technique given, just tighten and feel for excess heat??  If too loose detect wobble?? From automotive  taper bearing adjustment I know overtightening can quickly ruin bearings.  I will throw out an endplay figure buried in the fading memory bank of .00" to .001."  The old school drill was preload while spinning the wheel until drag is detected, back off and then tension for final setting. That play is not easy to measure on an auto wheel, although you will see a dial indicator set up recommended. So there must be a more definitive bearing preload procedure  available??  

Next, crack detection.  Did not see any off load for magnaflux?? Naked eye will not work.  Isn't this service still widely available and cheap?

Agree with chuckorlando on the value of the H-Frt electronic stethoscope.  I bought one and it is surprisingly good. I am now leery of the Grizz lathe since threading is one feature I wanted. From my limited experience in this forum looks like the rough Chinese castings have lots of stress risers at the edges.ondering:


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## mikey553

James,

I have 4003G lathe for 10 years and use occasionally for my hobby. It has served me well.
Sorry that I am too late to respond to this thread - I have just spotted and bookmarked this forum. But like they say: better late than never.

When I've gut my lathe in 2004, I decided to take it apart completely to check it and to learn at the same time. What I have found was not a surprise. The parts machining was good to very good with few exceptions. The assembly quality was a completely different story. The parts were not deburred, were dirty. The biggest problem was in the headstock gearbox.

The gearbox came with oil, but had a lot of metal chips and casting sand inside. The manufacturer used a red paint inside the gearbox to glue the loose sand together, that is instead of properly cleaning the casting. The worst thing was the spindle bearing feed system. It is a very clever design. When machine runs, the oil mist fills the gearbox and some of it condenses on the top cover plate. Then it finds its way into the oil groove, that runs around the top edge of the gearbox just under the cover plate. From that groove there are 2 deep drilled holes to feed each bearing. In my machine the grooves were cast and were full of loose sand. Your guess is as good as mine - both bearings were damaged.

Grizzly customer service was very good 10 years ago - I have received all damaged parts (there was some shipping damage too) quickly and free of charge. You will not get such good service from Matt at PM - I have tried that too. For some reason I decided not to change the spindle bearings, but to try the original ones. I did not regret my choice.

Even so bearing races and rollers developed matte surface finish, the machine works very well now. I do not have any chatter if I do my part. I think the key is in the correct bearing installation. Visenfile correctly mentions the absence of definitve bearing tensioning technique in this thread. I do not pretend to be a specialist, but I have read a few topics on this subject and was able to assemble the spindle to my satisfaction.

The machine tool spindle procedure is very different from automotive  taper bearing adjustment. You assemble automotive tapered roller bearings with a slight clearance - they are small and carry heavy load. Lathe spindle bearings are much larger. The spindle is designed with the rigidity in mind. Plus the bearings are assembled with a preload for the same reason, even so you loose some of the bearing life due to this preload. My spindle bearings are preloaded in such a way that 3.2 lb force, applied to the edge of the 6" chuck, barely moves the spindle in a cold condition. Again I do not pretend this is the correct way, but it works for me - I do not have chatter. In addition both bearing races must be parallel to each other

Hopefully this provides a guidance for some of you. 

Mike


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## dan12

mikey553 said:


> James,
> 
> I have 4003G lathe for 10 years and use occasionally for my hobby. It has served me well.
> Sorry that I am too late to respond to this thread - I have just spotted and bookmarked this forum. But like they say: better late than never.
> 
> When I've gut my lathe in 2004, I decided to take it apart completely to check it and to learn at the same time. What I have found was not a surprise. The parts machining was good to very good with few exceptions. The assembly quality was a completely different story. The parts were not deburred, were dirty. The biggest problem was in the headstock gearbox.
> 
> The gearbox came with oil, but had a lot of metal chips and casting sand inside. The manufacturer used a red paint inside the gearbox to glue the loose sand together, that is instead of properly cleaning the casting. The worst thing was the spindle bearing feed system. It is a very clever design. When machine runs, the oil mist fills the gearbox and some of it condenses on the top cover plate. Then it finds its way into the oil groove, that runs around the top edge of the gearbox just under the cover plate. From that groove there are 2 deep drilled holes to feed each bearing. In my machine the grooves were cast and were full of loose sand. Your guess is as good as mine - both bearings were damaged.
> 
> Grizzly customer service was very good 10 years ago - I have received all damaged parts (there was some shipping damage too) quickly and free of charge. You will not get such good service from Matt at PM - I have tried that too. For some reason I decided not to change the spindle bearings, but to try the original ones. I did not regret my choice.
> 
> Even so bearing races and rollers developed matte surface finish, the machine works very well now. I do not have any chatter if I do my part. I think the key is in the correct bearing installation. Visenfile correctly mentions the absence of definitve bearing tensioning technique in this thread. I do not pretend to be a specialist, but I have read a few topics on this subject and was able to assemble the spindle to my satisfaction.
> 
> The machine tool spindle procedure is very different from automotive  taper bearing adjustment. You assemble automotive tapered roller bearings with a slight clearance - they are small and carry heavy load. Lathe spindle bearings are much larger. The spindle is designed with the rigidity in mind. Plus the bearings are assembled with a preload for the same reason, even so you loose some of the bearing life due to this preload. My spindle bearings are preloaded in such a way that 3.2 lb force, applied to the edge of the 6" chuck, barely moves the spindle in a cold condition. Again I do not pretend this is the correct way, but it works for me - I do not have chatter. In addition both bearing races must be parallel to each other
> 
> Hopefully this provides a guidance for some of you.
> 
> Mike


\

all info is welcome by me.
I've had my 30+ days
just about to hook up power


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## Jamespvill

mikey553 said:


> James,
> 
> I have 4003G lathe for 10 years and use occasionally for my hobby. It has served me well.
> Sorry that I am too late to respond to this thread - I have just spotted and bookmarked this forum. But like they say: better late than never.
> 
> Mike




Hey Mike, 

Although I haven't gotten the lathe back to its absolute former glory, I did get it to where It was working well enough to hold a fairly tight tolerance and provide a reasonable finish. One of my buddies has a 4003G too and I used it while mine was taken apart. To my surprise, his lathe was providing finishes equal or worse than the ones I've been complaining about through this entire thread.He said that this was the condition it had been in since day one, He told me I was too picky! :lmao:

Regardless, I ordered some replacement bearings from Grizzly and had my machinist friend install those, he's replaced a lot of precision bearings and knows his stuff. It provides reasonable finishes with all of my tinkering now. I sold the lathe a few days back and showed the buyer the finishes, he was just fine with them. 

So although this is a bit of an anticlimactic resolution to the entire thread, I would have to say it is concluded. I do appreciate the help though!

As for the customer service, I've found that thus far I haven't had the need to call in for any replacements or help with PM's machines so there hasn't been an opportunity to see weather he'll send me parts or not. I don't foresee having to test Matts customer service either in the foreseeable future, He has served me very well over my last two purchases. 

Thank you everybody for any and all advice and information you provided for me. Although I was not able to fix the lathe to my personal satisfaction, I learned an absolute boat-ton of information along the way!

P.S. If you need someone to completely rip your 4003G apart and put it back together again, I'm your guy! )


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## wallyw

Jamespvill said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> Although I haven't gotten the lathe back to its absolute former glory, I did get it to where It was working well enough to hold a fairly tight tolerance and provide a reasonable finish. One of my buddies has a 4003G too and I used it while mine was taken apart. To my surprise, his lathe was providing finishes equal or worse than the ones I've been complaining about through this entire thread.He said that this was the condition it had been in since day one, He told me I was too picky! :lmao:
> 
> Regardless, I ordered some replacement bearings from Grizzly and had my machinist friend install those, he's replaced a lot of precision bearings and knows his stuff. It provides reasonable finishes with all of my tinkering now. I sold the lathe a few days back and showed the buyer the finishes, he was just fine with them.
> 
> So although this is a bit of an anticlimactic resolution to the entire thread, I would have to say it is concluded. I do appreciate the help though!
> 
> As for the customer service, I've found that thus far I haven't had the need to call in for any replacements or help with PM's machines so there hasn't been an opportunity to see weather he'll send me parts or not. I don't foresee having to test Matts customer service either in the foreseeable future, He has served me very well over my last two purchases.
> 
> Thank you everybody for any and all advice and information you provided for me. Although I was not able to fix the lathe to my personal satisfaction, I learned an absolute boat-ton of information along the way!
> 
> P.S. If you need someone to completely rip your 4003G apart and put it back together again, I'm your guy! )



A valiant try James!  Please let us know how the new lathe works for you.

WallyW


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## Contract_Pilot

I am thinking of removing my headstock gears as many as possible I only need 1 Speed high speed....


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## Splat

I started reading this thread thinking it was a new one until I finally saw the date. Contract Pilot, sorry but I can't see any benefit from removing the gears you don't use.

As for the OP's finish problems, there have been multiple threads about this all over the web. Barring any defects (cracked cross slide, motor mount, etc) what most are finding is adding anti-vibration mounts between motor and mount negates most of their finish problems. I'm using the 9213K35 mounts from Mcmaster between motor and motor mount. Also, link belts from Harbor Freight. One thing no one mentioned in this thread though is the fact that maybe the OP's concrete floor had slightly moved or settled which will throw off lathe level. Another thing is when I still had my lathe sitting on rubber iso mounts I got some chatter.  I anchored the lathe to the concrete and that made a huge difference, along with the motor mounts and link belts.


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## jmarkwolf

gdu said:


> Please post the bearing changeout pics. That way we can benefit from your hard work. I was not able to find any bearing change for this model documented online.
> 
> MK



Yes, please do.


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