# A good CNC lathe with live tooling capability?



## Jake2465 (Dec 26, 2020)

Come spring or summer time I will probably be in the market for a used CNC lathe to help round out my shop. I have really only messed with CNC mills and I don't know much about CNC lathe manufactures and which ones to worry about or go with. One thing I would really like to have is live tooling on the turret, but I guess there are different types of turrets and mounting systems with some being more common than others. Any ideas?


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## mmcmdl (Dec 26, 2020)

I see some Haas lathes out there for sale . Not top quality but they seem to be in a lot of local shops . Older Okumas are around also . Doosan commands the big bucks and are top notch . I know you can pick up on some nicer Hardinges off of Ebay also . The live tooling options are where the money comes in to play .

If I could ever find a running Makino Count 15 with a Fanuc OMC I would snap it up in a heartbeat !


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## Jake2465 (Dec 26, 2020)

Those Fanuc controls look like they would be a bit of a learning curve. They have a ton of buttons and knobs. One guy I talked to said, "Awwww Jake, it's not that bad. Look, ill show you how to jog the machine". Then he turned this knob and hit about 5 buttons and went into a sub-menu and then opened and closed the doors. After all that, he jogged the machine. I felt like running out the back door, lol.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 26, 2020)

LOL . The OMC was the easiest I've ever seen . Conversational , full graphics , only a few buttons . There is a member on here that is looking to sell his cnc lathe , I'll see if I can find him . Give me a minute .


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## mmcmdl (Dec 26, 2020)

Get in touch with lanagos on here if you're serious . I've inquired about his lathe in the past , I know he wants to off it as he has a brand new lathe coming soon .


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## Jake2465 (Dec 26, 2020)

Alright, I'll give him a message.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 26, 2020)

If he still has it .................Clausing/Colchester Storm 3000 if it means anything to you . The thread has been deleted but I may be able to send it to you .


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## Jake2465 (Dec 26, 2020)

I sent a message .

What were some of the features that you liked about it?


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## mmcmdl (Dec 26, 2020)

Did you get the pm ?


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## Jake2465 (Dec 26, 2020)

Nothing yet. I did get yours and the link did not work.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 26, 2020)

Jake2465 said:


> Nothing yet. I did get yours and the link did not work.



Yep , I was afraid it wouldn't go thru . I'm sure he'll get back with you .


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## Jake2465 (Dec 26, 2020)

That will be fine .


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## JimDawson (Dec 27, 2020)

I love my Hardinge Conquest 42, but the Fanuc controls sucked.  This of course necessitated a controls retrofit.

If you can find a Haas with live tooling, that would be a good option.

You might want to concider one with a Y axis, with that, you can do some serious mill/turn work.


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## Jake2465 (Dec 27, 2020)

Definitely. I will look at the HAAS machines as well to see what is available. 

What was it about the Fanuc controls that made you want to get rid of it?


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## JimDawson (Dec 27, 2020)

Jake2465 said:


> What was it about the Fanuc controls that made you want to get rid of it?



Just for starters it was 30 year old software/controls, Jurassic.  I have a rather low tolerance for antique controls and software.  Over all the user interface was clunky by todays standards.  Everything was difficult to do.  Each setup required re-zeroing the tools, required typing in the offset.

Was not ever able to get the RS232 comm connection to work for loading programs, but I admit I didn't try too hard.  Had to manually enter programs and hope there was no typos.  Very little program storage memory.

The turret got out of time due to a very minor crash and we couldn't get the homing routine to work, had to manually rotate the turret into the correct position.  This is not an easy task, took about 45 minutes, and about 6ft of 2x4 to get it in the correct position.

All of this was in the first week of firing up the machine.  I didn't take long for us to decide that a retrofit was in order.

Now:

Has a modern user interface.
Tools are set as a machine parameter, so no resetting between jobs unless a tool is changed.  One click tool setting.  Cutter comp is set in the job setup.
Wireless Ethernet connection
Program storage is only limited by the HD (500GB)
One click turret homing
We have full control over the program, can add features as needed.
And a lot more


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## mmcmdl (Dec 28, 2020)

JimDawson said:


> I love my Hardinge Conquest 42, but the Fanuc controls sucked. This of course necessitated a controls retrofit.
> 
> If you can find a Haas with live tooling, that would be a good option.
> 
> You might want to concider one with a Y axis, with that, you can do some serious mill/turn work.



Jim , could you give an estimate of what a retrofit of an older slant bed would cost ? Also , if so , could *you* do it without the lathe on site ? I would love to get an older lathe but would be skeered to death taking on such a project . Thanks .


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## JimDawson (Dec 28, 2020)

mmcmdl said:


> Jim , could you give an estimate of what a retrofit of an older slant bed would cost ? Also , if so , could *you* do it without the lathe on site ? I would love to get an older lathe but would be skeered to death taking on such a project . Thanks .



I spent about $7500 retrofitting my Hardinge.  A rough cost breakdown for the major components is: Controller $1200 (EBay price), (4)1.8KW DMM servos $3000, GS3 VFD $700, other misc. hardware $2500.  This was all done with industrial grade hardware, and built to NEMA standards.  I had to replace the Fanuc servos/drives because they were not compatible with anything but a Fanuc controller.

A lathe is an order of magnitude more difficult than a mill or router, mainly a lot more wiring and devices to control.  It took me about 2 weeks to strip out the old stuff, trace out all the wires, and get it wired up again to the new control hardware.  Then figure out the software, I had never run a CNC lathe before.  Fortunately, I now have a pretty mature lathe program.  Contrast this with my mill retrofit; 12 hours from start to back in production.

I have done 3 retrofits over the phone and email, 2 successful, and one not successful (ask Jake about that one  ). All mills or routers.  Yes, a lathe could be done remotely.  As always, good electrical documentation is the real key to success.


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## mmcmdl (Dec 28, 2020)

Thank you Jim . As always , I'm always in a query as which way I'm heading . I believe I have a major project ahead which would give me some leadway . I appreciate what you contribute to this website , although it all seems like Chinese arithmetic to me .


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## spumco (Jan 2, 2021)

Another option would be an Omniturn GT75 gang tool lathe or a CNC'd Hardinge DSM/DV-59 or HC.  Fairly cheap used, and you can add live tools to the tooling plate.  Some are driven via cables (dremel on steroids), and I've seen self-contained electric spindles mounted as well.

Note - the cost of live tool holders is *staggering*.  Whatever you get, price out live holders and see whats available used (VDI, BMT, etc) in the size you're considering.

I bought an Emco 325-II recently.  It's sorted out (I'll echo Jim's opinion on Fanuc controls), but I probably should have started out with a simpler lathe before jumping in to a X/Z/C lathe with live tools as my first CNC lathe.

EDIT - and another thing...  the one thing you really _cannot_ change on a lathe is the spindle bore.  A 5C lathe will not pass 1.5" barstock, period.  Keep this in mind while shopping.


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