When will the Argon shortage end?

[WobblyHand]

Again, just an uniformed observation, but if the test state is combustion (ie: producing oh and h20), it would seem to imply that any thermal and ir/uv emission are a result of the combustion (ie: chemical reaction), not the expansion of the hydrogen.

The article I linked in post #47 is about combustion only. Not the JT effect. I linked it to show the UV and IR combustion emissions only.

The figure in Post #43 is about the Joule-Thomson coefficient, which is negative at temperatures above 200K (about -73C) for hydrogen. A negative coefficient means heating (not cooling) upon expansion through an orifice. A positive coefficient means cooling upon expansion through and orifice. Normal air (nitrogen and oxygen) will cool upon expansion, for all temperatures below 600K. You don't have to believe any of this, but you won't be able to liquefy helium, hydrogen or neon from simple orifice expansion, unless the compressed gas temperature is low enough that the Joule-Thomson coefficient is positive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule–Thomson_effect If you have an alternate informed opinion, with references, I'd be glad to hear it.

 

[great white]

The article I linked in post #47 is about combustion only. Not the JT effect. I linked it to show the UV and IR combustion emissions only.

The figure in Post #43 is about the Joule-Thomson coefficient, which is negative at temperatures above 200K (about -73C) for hydrogen. A negative coefficient means heating (not cooling) upon expansion through an orifice. A positive coefficient means cooling upon expansion through and orifice. Normal air (nitrogen and oxygen) will cool upon expansion, for all temperatures below 600K. You don't have to believe any of this, but you won't be able to liquefy helium, hydrogen or neon from simple orifice expansion, unless the compressed gas temperature is low enough that the Joule-Thomson coefficient is positive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule–Thomson_effect If you have an alternate informed opinion, with references, I'd be glad to hear it.

Ah, I think I see what happened here. It appears you are making two assertions and I somehow got the two merged in my thoughts. It seems the two subjects are:

1. That burning hydrogen produces IR/UV and,
2. that the expansion of hydrogen has a net delta gain in temp.

Not to be snarky here, but as to “informed/uniformed”, I understand everything you have both said in your discussion.

I used “uniformed” because while I understand the principles and some of the specifics on the topic, its just not my feild so I say “uniformed”.

Now, I’m out. You gents have fun.

 

[WobblyHand]

Ah, I think I see what happened here. It appears you are making two assertions.

That burning hydrogen produces IR/UV and that the expansion hydrogen has a net delta gain in temp.

Not to be snarky here, but as to “informed/uniformed”, I understand everything you have both said in your discussion.

I used “uniformed” because while I understand the principles and some of the specifics on the topic, its just not my feild so I say “uniformed”.

Now, I’m out.

Sorry to chase you off. It was not intended. It was to further the discussion, with references, so others could learn something new. Re: uninformed, I only have the words you typed. Had you not used that particular word, I wouldn't have responded so, um, pointedly. My sincerest apologies to you for my reaction to that word. I hope you accept my apology. It's not my field either. I'm a jack of many trades, expert in few, but can usually apply what I know.

Lot's of folks have told me over my lifetime that "you can't do that" sort of thing, for an offbeat idea, but they were wrong. With sufficient need or motivation and a little cleverness, many times you can do that. You just have to do it a different way, a way other than what they were thinking.

Honestly, the hijack of mine was about liquefying air, and how to make a compressor of sufficient capacity. A few people piled on telling me it (air liquefaction) effectively couldn't be done because of x, y and z. Never made the assertion it was trivial, but it surely can be done. The Linde process and its variations are used world wide.

All I originally wanted to know was if anyone knew of designs of (air) compressors that were capable of sufficient capacity, and if it was possible to make such a design in a home shop. I probably don't even have the requisite mechanical and machining skills to attempt this. I'm just an amateur, and a late bloomer at that.

Honestly just daydreaming, but who knows, if you get the bug, sometimes you have to go for the dream.