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[Lathe] Webb/Takisawa TSL-800D, curious if there are other owners here

Discussion in 'VARIOUS OTHER BRANDS OF MACHINERY' started by Crank, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. Crank

    Crank United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Greetings,
    I just joined the forum, but I'm not new to machine work. I recently swapped my 14X60 lathe to go to a "smaller" 14X32 (at a svelte 2500lbs). This little diamond in the rough, is a Takisawa TSL-800D imported by Webb in 1979. I have been surprised at how little discussion about these lathes exists. I spoke to Webb and they said they had imported 3500 of them until 1985. They were also imported by Yuasa and one or two other names and I have no idea how many more that accounts for. It's built like the proverbial brick outhouse and if I ever meet the engineer that drew up the plans, I'll kiss him! It is one of the most sensibly assembled machines and everything goes together logically for easy maintenance. The company got its start in Japan, but moved production to Taiwan in the 1970's.

    As seems to be typical, this one was suffering from paint lifting from the underlying filler and casting, so since I hadn't any pressing need to put it into immediate service, I have torn it down for paint and maintenance. Once I got below 38 years of grime, I am finding all of the surfaces to be in extremely good shape with virtually no wear. What it lacked in cleaning was offset by being kept well lubricated. The only item I have yet found was a slight noise from the front bearing on the 5HP, two speed motor. A set of premium bearings set me back all of $59 with shipping and should be here today. I also have gotten three new panel switches as the originals look a bit hammered, however I found out current 30mm switches are a tad wider than the originals and a bit of cast iron will need to be trimmed back for clearance.

    I am almost done with paint removal and will be reapplying body filler to keep the smooth finish. I had planned on a mundane coat of Battleship No.5 which I have in alkyd enamel, however, the evil squirrels told me I need to paint it Deutz Spring Green. I located a supplier that will ship some "evil" alkyd enamel industrial paint to earth conscious California. Oddly enough, you can purchase 3 one quart cans, but 1 gallon is banned (high capacity assault paint?) I have taken photos up to this point, but can't access them from this computer, so I will add some later.

    If there are other Takisawa owners out there, chime in and say hello. I'm starting to think the lack of info about these lathes might be because they are new enough and stout enough to still be in active service with large facilities and not many have leaked into the hands of hobby/small shop environments. There are a few that turn up on Fleabay, but fairly uncommon. Even on the Practical Machinist forum there is little to be found, other than positive comments about them. So if you have one, let your presence be known and let's hear your story.

    Mark
     
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  2. DaveD

    DaveD United States Active User Active Member

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    I've got the Takisawa TSL-1000D. It's the 14x40 model. Had been looking for a few years for my first lathe and it popped up on CL. Was in a little industrial park ½ mile from me. Mind you, I knew nothing about this brand. Didn't know much more about any other brand either. So I go over asap since they had best offer on it and it had been sitting outside under a tarp for around for a year.

    Owner says I just want it out of here. He uncovers it and it has some weird control panel, 8" true set buck chuck and a 4 way tool post. Even had a royal 5c collet setup.All rusty but everything still slides and moves easy. Mind you, I don't know what this stuff is or it's worth. Oh, and 3 phase. WTF is that? Looks like a boat anchor to me.

    So I offer about $125, waiting for a swift boot off the property and he says ok, I just want it out of here. Then I get led into the office and he hands me the factory wiring and parts manuals. On the way out one of the machinists gives me a Aloris tool post and about 4 holders for it

    Took me 4 months to figure out the RPC 3 phase crap and build it and another month to strip the control panel off. Here about 6 years later I have probably $5k in tooling and can make your basics.
     
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  3. Crank

    Crank United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Dave,
    That is one heck of a score and a great story! Currently they seem to trade in the $3000-$5500 range and conditions vary widely regardless of price. Quality machine equipment here in SOCAL is usually spotty, home shop stuff is usually beat up for passable money and production quality machines are spendy. The more I get into this machine the better I like it. I went from a beautiful Graziano SAG 14, but for what my needs are, this one makes a lot more sense. It lacks some of the bells and whistles, but I don't feel like I came up short in the deal. It's nice to know that even being unfamiliar with what you got, you still managed to sort it out. I was intimidated when I got my first 220V, 1ph machine and thought I was doomed when I went to 3ph, now I don't think twice about it. My goal was to size my machines more appropriately for my garage workshop which is a bit crowded. I have a 9x42 Bridgeport that sits awkwardly away from the wall due to the vertical head, so the next hunt will be for a Deckel or similar type machine with a lower head unit. I will likely add a second small high precision lathe for real light work, but in the meantime, I am going to add a 5C collet chuck to the Takisawa to avoid the 8" chuck swirling around.

    Mark
     
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  4. 4ssss

    4ssss United States Active Member Active Member

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    Webb, Yausa ,Yam, Yang, Cadillac, and some others are all clones of the Mori Sieki Lathe. In fact probably the best tool room lathe I ever ran was a Cadillac 1430, and when I was putting my basement shop together I wanted one, but I had space issues and it wouldn't have worked. You have a quality machine and parts are available and may be interchangeable, but I doubt you'll ever need any. Sterling Machinery in California was one of the importers for those lathes, and always have some used ones for sale.
     
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  5. Crank

    Crank United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    4ssss,
    The Cadillac specifically and the 17" swing lathes are indeed clones of the Mori Sieki family, the humble little TSL line (550, 800 and 1000) is it's own critter. Unfortunately and shockingly :eek:, I found out not all things are true on the interwebs! I have spoken direct with Webb and they are adamant that the parent factory ceased production of this particular model in 1985 and all replacement parts have been exhausted years ago. Rumors make it sound like they were still available in Asia until the early 2000's but no hard proof of anything with a production date that late has come to light yet. I have sent 4 emails directly to Takisawa, in addition to 3 phone calls, inquiring for any information relating to the TSL line, which is indeed listed, however I have yet to receive any reply and it appears that they are vaporware. As you stated, it's doubtful repair parts will be needed unless there is a major "OH ***!" moment, but I don't see much fuss with basic maintenance components being replaced with mainstream contemporary parts or simply manufactured by an owner. I started researching the background a month before I even got to see the machine because I wanted to be forewarned of any problems or typical failure parts that would require manufacturer support. The almost complete lack of criticism, aside from poor paint, led me to feel that it could provide me with a lifetime of service without any major grief. I will still look into getting a second much smaller high precision lathe for tiny projects, but the Takisawa will be the go-to workhorse for most of my chip-making. Thanks for the words of encouragement, I have been extremely glad that this lathe found it's way to my shop.

    Mark
     
  6. ddickey

    ddickey United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I know of another member here who owns one. See if he chimes in. I told him i was interested in it but he doesn't want to sell it. Don't blame him.
     
  7. Crank

    Crank United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    ddickey,
    Lathes are like the vehicles we drive. Sometimes we get along with what we can afford, some of us buy what we don't need, some buy for the prestige and some of us find something that works for everything after trial and error. After years of being on a minimal budget and slowly upgrading my lathes, I finally bought a Graziano SAG 14x60. I figured I had reached the high water mark and found my "last" lathe. After 6-7 years of fantastic service, I realized I had never used the last 3 feet of that lathe, but I had become spoiled by the stability of a 3000lb lathe capable of 1550rpm and the smoother finish a 3ph motor can provide. That led me on a quest. I have had my share of "old iron" and dealt with all of the headaches that come with the horrors these old troopers have suffered. I have overhauled numerous 9" and 10" SB lathes, just short of having the ways reground and scraped. I also had a used Chinese import 12x36 that worked really well but suffered from all of the quality issues normally attributed to stuff out of mainland China. I knew I wanted something as stout as the Graziano, but a shorter bed length. I considered a Monarch 10EE, but the electronics seemed to be a constant concern and finding a cared for example under $10K was not a sure thing. The only current production equivalent was the Standard Modern 1334, but with a new price tag of $18K with no accessories, that seemed frivolous. A post on another forum led to a fellow member contacting me about a trade, he had this Takisawa and had only had it in his shop for six months, but orders were rolling in that would require a longer lathe. Long story short, after seeing each others lathe under power, a month later he pulled up with a trailer, we unloaded the Takisawa, loaded up my Graziano and off he went. Currently the Graziano is under power and making parts in his shop and hopefully he will get many years of service out of it. I now have a lathe that will free up 3 feet of floor space in my extremely crowded work area, has all of the features I used on my Graziano, 2500lbs, spindle speeds up to 1800rpm and has a minimal amount of electronics in it to operate. I can still do all of the same work I have needed to for the past 30 years and I'm having a blast tearing this thing down to parade rest for painting and maintenance. Don't give up hope, that other member might realize that he needs something different and you might be just the one that winds up with it. At this point in my life, instead of a mid-life crisis, I am having a calm reassessment of all the stuff I really don't need. I will quickly add that this trade doesn't mean I'm not buying more equipment, just stuff I can use more freely, I'm already trying to think of what the second lathe will be to fit in that spare 3 feet of space:grin:.

    Mark

    P.S. I'm finally going to put a DRO on my lathe. Yippee!
     
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  8. DaveD

    DaveD United States Active User Active Member

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    What a coincidence, I've been thinking for the last 6 months or so about a dro for the tsl1000d.
    I've had a dropros 3 axis on my Rf45 mill clone for 4 or so years and really like it.

    Just haven't decided on the glass or metal scales. Big difference in price but leaning toward the metal scales.

    Then again, I just noticed Precision Matthews has jumped into the game with a glass scale setup for a little over $400.

    More confusion.
     
  9. Crank

    Crank United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Dave,
    I'm looking at the unit from DROPROS, just under $1K and well spoken of even by individuals using them in production environments. I'll look closer once I get it painted and back together.

    On another note, I tried something for the first time. I heated the new motor bearings in Ziploc bags using boiling water and they slid right onto the rotor shaft without any fuss. It still seems like witchcraft, but it works! The motor is back together and spins silently by hand. It's bolted back in and then I ground on the opening in the bed leg for the new main switches, which were a wee bit wider than the originals. More cleaning and I might start on the body filler in a day or two.

    Mark
     
  10. Crank

    Crank United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    *$%&#@!!!! :mad: Body filler! now I remember why I never pursued a career as an auto-body guy:blowup: Just had to vent and in case anyone nearby is gifted with that skill, I'll hire you!
    Hopefully, I can do a job that won't look like butchery. At least I started...

    Mark
     
  11. Classic1951

    Classic1951 United States Swarf Registered Member

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    Hello fellow Takisawa owners! I too am the proud owner of a 1970 TSL-800D! Purchased for a mere $400!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. Crank

    Crank United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Classic,
    Thanks for saying hello and adding to the ranks. With that early of a production date, is yours one of the ones still produced in Japan? That was a heck of a score at that price!

    Mark
     
  13. Classic1951

    Classic1951 United States Swarf Registered Member

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    Hello Mark
    The tag on the front says "Yamazen Co. LTD
    Nishi-Ku. Osaka Japan


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. Classic1951

    Classic1951 United States Swarf Registered Member

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    There is no importer tag anywhere to be found!
    It was an absolute rust bucket! But after what seems like a thousand hours with 4" grinder and wire wheel it actually functions flawlessly!
    I used it to make a motor plate to mount a newer motor on my 63 Bridgeport j head mill. Wow it is dream come true for me!


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  15. Crank

    Crank United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Classic,
    Glad you saved it from the scrapper. No idea if they always used importers, yours might have been through that Yamazen outfit, I'm unfamiliar with that name.

    Mark
     

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