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  1. Lordbeezer

    Lordbeezer United States Active Member Active Member

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    Picked up a Lear Siegler inc vfd..model VS225..new in box..wiring diagram approved in 63..shows 115v input..output field and arm ..guessing this is for dc motor?? Would it work for permanent magnet dc.? Thanks for looking
     

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  2. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    It's a variac type control and probably for a motor rated less than 1/4 HP. For a power feed or some similar usage it would be fine, but
    for a lathe I'm not sure.
    Mark S.
    ps is there a circuit board over on the right side? Can we see a picture of that? I don't see any rectifier
    diodes in there
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  3. tq60

    tq60 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Looking at what we can read on a phone of the schematic, it has connections for both field and armature.

    So it seems this was to control a non - inductive motor rather one with a commutator or brushes as it is expecting an armature with a set of windings.

    A universal motor fits this bill but the overall size of the device supports estimating a small motor.

    Look for a fuse some place or a nomenclature tag indicating capacity in hp or current.

    If only a fuse can be found then take 1/2 that value in amps and multiply by the listed 115 volts to get watts then divide that by 745 to get hp rating.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
     
  4. Lordbeezer

    Lordbeezer United States Active Member Active Member

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    Don't see a circuit board..fuse on lid has no numbers.fuse inside is 250 v..buss acc 1..is this for ac or dc motor. Thanks for your time
     

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  5. hman

    hman Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Just for fun, I did a little playing with the image of the schematic ...
    Screen Shot 2017-06-25 at 2.17.33 PM.jpg
     
  6. Lordbeezer

    Lordbeezer United States Active Member Active Member

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    Been doing the goggle thing..still don't know if this for small ac or dc motor.hate to burn it up trying motors..thanks
     
  7. hman

    hman Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Howzabout you plug it in, turn it to "forward," give the Variac about 1/10 of a turn, and check across either the "field" or "arm" terminals with a DVM - first set to DC volts, then to AC. One or the other should give you a reading. This will be safe enough for the controller and should at least get you started.
     
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  8. Lordbeezer

    Lordbeezer United States Active Member Active Member

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    Arm output..on dc voltage goes up as knob is turned smoothly up to 120 ..on ac very low kinda jumps around..field jumps around ac or dc doesn't go over 44 v. Thanks
     
  9. tq60

    tq60 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Will assume fuse is on line input so 1 amp at 115 (op stated labeled voltage) then 115 watts maximum capacity but assuming some starting loads then assume motor size maybe 80 watts or maybe 1/10 hp.

    Likely for a small sewing machine size motor.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
     
  10. Lordbeezer

    Lordbeezer United States Active Member Active Member

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    Would you think this is for dc motor? Have a Baldor gear motor would like to use for power feed on enco 110 mill..thanks
     
  11. f350ca

    f350ca Canada Active User Active Member

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    That controller is for a DC motor. My Hardinge lathe uses the same design power supply for the DC carriage feed motor. It feeds full 110 volts to the fields and varies the armature voltage for speed control. With full field voltage the motor can produce more torque at slow speeds than ones that reduce both armature and field power.
    The field power should be steady, and I would expect 110 v.
    I don't see what I would recognize as a rectifier in the picture or the circuit so it may be AC output.

    Greg
     
  12. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I didn't know there were controllers that vary the field. But yes normally the field voltage should be steady. Be a simple matter to add rectifiers to it though
    then you could use it with a dc permanent magnet motor, or a shunt wound type with a field. Can you post a picture of that Baldor motor you want to use?
    Mark S.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  13. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    That varac xformer should be able to handle about 10 amps. Those two blue round looking things are your SCR's. There's also a fuse in the bottom of the box, according to the schematic is F2. What is the amperage of it? I suspect, this fuse is to the amature, which shoould be a higher amperage than the one on the front cover. The one on the front cover is probably for the field winding. One amp would be just about right on a fractional rated motor, probably not over 1/4 HP. Of course, this is depended on the amp rating of the other fuse. And , yes, you should be able to hook up a PM motor to this controller. Just connect to the amerature connection only. Leave the field connection open and not hooked up to anything.
     
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  14. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I don't know about 10 amps Ken, I was thinking more like 3; it doesn't look that big. But yes if those are SCRs then it can be used as is
    Mark
     
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  15. ch2co

    ch2co United States Grumpy Old Man H-M Supporter-Premium

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    for what its worth, my 2 cents worth
    This is not a VFD (variable frequency device)
    This was built before SCR (silicon controlled rectifiers) were in wide use
    There appears to be something that looks like a full bridge rectifier in the light blue round thing with 4 attachments.
    I don't think that the variac is capable of 10 amps
    This device was manufactured before the postal zip codes were more than two numbers (before 1963)
    I wouldn't trust the large electrolytic capacitor for being any good after all this time

    Just thinkin which these days is getting harder and harder'

    CHuck the grumpy old guy
     
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  16. woochucker

    woochucker United States Active Member Active Member

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    I was thinking SCR, I thought that they were that time frame.. I guess not.
    was looking for the stacked set of disks, certainly not diode at that time.
    Enough ranting, I don't have enough knowledge..
     
  17. ch2co

    ch2co United States Grumpy Old Man H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Corrections
    OK SCR's were just getting started by '63 but there appears to be no such thing in the box. They were rather large (large peanut sized (without shell))
    looking at the front panel, and the schematic, the blue disk is a 3 way switch not a rectifier bridge.

    Grumpy old guy
     
  18. chips&more

    chips&more United States Active User Active Member

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    Looks like a DC motor control to me. This control/supply has two DC outputs. One output is for the field (fixed DC). The other DC output is for the armature (variable). Those blue things are bridge rectifiers, CR1 & CR2. The smaller one is for the field and the bigger one is for the armature. That brown cylinder thing is probably an electrolytic capacitor. Sorry, it's not a VFD...Dave
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  19. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Bridge rectifiers!!! That's what I meant, not SCR's. Thank you Dave.

    Mark, yeah, variac is probably good for 3 amps! You are likely correct!

    Used to use some about that size that would handle 10 amps. Of course, that was on 240V. Used them to power the field windings on BIG DC motors! Even bigger one's for the field voltage voltage on the M-G sets. Only did this because the owner didn't want to spend the extra $$$$ for SCR controlled motor controllers. We ran motor-generator sets to run those big DC motors.

    Getting too old for this stuff!
     
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  20. ch2co

    ch2co United States Grumpy Old Man H-M Supporter-Premium

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    OK! the round blue thing is a rectifier bridge, not a switch, I looked at it and figured out that it was on the other side of the door that had a F-off-R switch on it
    switch on it and totally missed the point that the thing was on the back of the box, not the door. Duh.
     
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  21. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I think lordbeezer has gone to bed by now LOL
    M
     
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  22. Lordbeezer

    Lordbeezer United States Active Member Active Member

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    Not in bed yet..just came in from building a pig cooker..controller will run 90v dc Baldor gear motor.slow to faster..forward and reverse..but want to use it to run a bodine gear motor..115v dc..way it's wired now is not right .guess I have to separate wires field and arm..mark.would be real nice to use this on pm treadmill motor..add rectifiers??..big brown device in lower right corner looks like some sort of transformer.not Capisitor.thank y'all very much.phil..
     

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  23. Lordbeezer

    Lordbeezer United States Active Member Active Member

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    Why would company advertise this as a vfd if it's not a vfd. 1963 terminology??
     
  24. Lordbeezer

    Lordbeezer United States Active Member Active Member

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    It does have a scbr..small blue disc at 2 o'clock to bigger blue cylinder. Thanks
     
  25. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Who said it's a vfd? The place who you bought it from? It says "variable speed drive" on the front of it, not variable frequency. Did you get this device at a garage sale?
    Anyhow, it looks like the Bodine motor might work with it, I can't make out the current rating of the Baldor one.
    The box still looks a bit small to run anything larger than about 1/10 horsepower
    If the box is fused at 1 amp that would certainly be the case.
    That small blue disc is the bridge rectifier (I recognize the Semtech name) and it looks pretty puny in terms of current rating. I would guess it may be the limiting factor.
    I would change it to at least a 10 amp, 400 volt unit.
    Does the variac have any specs written on it? That would probably the next limiting factor.
    Mark S.
    ps nice pig cooker
     
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  26. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    On second thought the Bodine takes 3.3 amp, maybe not..
    M
     
  27. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    Ken what does one need for a x axis power feed? 1/8 horse? 1/6?
    I'm afraid lordbeezer's box isn't going to cut it with either of the motors he has.
    Mark
     
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  28. hman

    hman Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    That device looks like it might be a large inductor (ie, choke), to help smooth out the rectified DC.
    PS - took another look at the schematic. I noticed that there are + and - signs under the armature and field output terminals. So it's definitely for DC motors, eh wot?
     
  29. Lordbeezer

    Lordbeezer United States Active Member Active Member

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    Baldor draws 1.55 amps..1/7 hp...bought from a equipment co..guy said vfd and vsd.same thing..my dumb ass ...so if I replace the small blue rectifier it should hold up to the Baldor but not the bodine..thanks very much for your knowledge..Phil
     
  30. whitmore

    whitmore United States Active Member Active Member

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    The "CR1" designation on the schematic is probably a bridge rectifier, and would make DC output likely.
    So, it's a variable speed drive, VSD, not a VFD. It's about the right size for a positioner or coil winder.

    The box is labeled 'variable speed drive', NOT variable frequency
     

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