Tool Holders and Insert Selection Help

[danleereed]

Good Morning Folks,

So I have just got my new/used lathe cutting smoothly with a little help from some of the members here. I have a Standard Modern 16-60 lathe. Now that the machine is cutting well I am ready to buy a few more tool holders. Keep in mind I have a very limited experience with insert tooling and machining in general. I need help matching up inserts to tool holders that I can use with my existing tool post. Its labeled as a DTM100A. I don't know what standard that is, AXA BXA or whatever. Maybe the AXA but not sure no markings that directly match.

What I am needing is advice/ recommendations about insert types and holder that will fit my DTM 100A quick change tool post.

I would like to get:
An inner and outer threading tool that will hold inserts for different pitches, even acme threads. Maybe even inner grooves also?
An insert holder parting tool, not the rigid set depth, but the kind that will have adjustable depth. I saw some that work just like the HSS ones.
A recommendation for a boring bar and holder.
A knurling tool.

Now that the lathe is running I have several projects I would like to start learning on. I just need to aquire a few more tools.

Thanks for the look guys. All advice is appreciated.

Dan Reed

EDIT* Also I want to get a self aligning chuck. I have only a 4 jaw independent chuck at the moment. Is a 4 jaw self aligning better that a 3 jaw? I looked at some 6 jaw chucks and they are very expensive.

 

[dave2176]

Check your holder. The AXA will take a bar up to 1/2", BXA can go 5/8". I suggest you get boring bars that hold CCMT inserts as they fit other tooling so you don't have to stock so many inserts. Check Shar's and Grizzly, I have both and they work well. For threading both places have good options for the triangle inserts that lay flat. Get a couple different diameters so you can thread large and small bores. Consider left handed internal as well because it is easier to turn an internal thread with the lathe in reverse if you have that option. I use a Kennametal separator parting tool I really like but it is a fixed depth. I've heard good things about the Carmex brand insert type tool like you describe.
Dave

- - - Updated - - -

Suggest you start with a 3 jaw. Heard good things about Shar's brand but plan on dismantling for a good cleaning. If you don't have a DTI consider getting one so you can dial in your chuck after cleaning. Also useful on other stuff. The 3 jaw will hold hex stock as well.
Dave

 

[danleereed]

I did some looking around on the net and I think the DTA100A cross references to CXA tool holders. Still not 100% sure. Anyone who can verify this.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[dave2176]

What are the physical dimensions of your tool post? Approximates are: AXA 2.5 square, BXA 3.0, CXA 3.5" square, CA 4.0, DA 5.0, EA 6.0.
Dave

 

[danleereed]

What are the physical dimensions of your tool post? Approximates are: AXA 2.5 square, BXA 3.0, CXA 3.5" square, CA 4.0, DA 5.0, EA 6.0.
Dave

Thanks for the info Dave. My post measures 3.5" square. Its 4" to od of dove tail. 3.75" tall.

Sounds like CXA should work for me then.


Thanks,
Dan Reed

EDIT* Also the holders I have will hold up to 1" tools.

 

[dave2176]

Yes, CXA holders will take 1".
Dave

 

[hvontres]

Since you have a CXA tool post, you might want to take a look around Ebay to see what kind of tool holders you can pick up. It seems there are a lot of surplus holders in 1", some in 3/4" and almost nothing smaller then that. I would recommend trying to standardize on 1 or two kinds of inserts as well. I currently have a couple of holders for TNM* type inserts and a couple of CNM* ones. I think if I was starting from scratch, I would go with either CNM* (80 deg diamond) or WNM* (80 deg trigon). Also, once you have decided on a style of tool holder, keep your eyes peeled for surplus inserts on ebay. I have manged to snag some for around $3-$4. One possible issue you'll run into is trying to identify older, now obsolete grades of carbide. One good resource for that is http://www.carbidedepot.com/grade-info-nw.asp . I don't always get a match, but it's better than not knowing at all. I try to find general purpose grades. some of the inserts that come up are designed for exotic hi-temp alloys and I don't know how well they would hold up for general machining. One grade I have found that I really like is Kennametal KC5010. These are coated inserts and they seem to work fairly well both on steel and aluminum.

Hope this helps.

 

[darkzero]

Thanks for the info Dave. My post measures 3.5" square. Its 4" to od of dove tail. 3.75" tall.

Sounds like CXA should work for me then.


Thanks,
Dan Reed

EDIT* Also the holders I have will hold up to 1" tools.

I still have a DTM catalog, very nice pool post by the way! I miss mine.

The TP100A is equivelent to CA size which is the next size up from CXA. CA standard holders will accept up to a 1" shank. CA oversized holders will accept up to a 1.25" shank.

Yes, CXA holders will take 1".
Dave

CXA standard holders go up to 3/4".

 

[drs23]

I did some looking around on the net and I think the DTA100A cross references to CXA tool holders. Still not 100% sure. Anyone who can verify this.

Thanks,
Dan

Dan, I can't verify that's the case for sure but that's what came to mind when you first mentioned it. I'd be very surprised to see and AXA or BXA on a machine that size. I've got a 12 X 36 and it uses a BXA. I feel your research is spot on BUT I'M SURE SOMEONE CAN GIVE YOU A MORE DEFINITIVE ANSWER.

 

[ScrapMetal]

A knurling tool.


EDIT* Also I want to get a self aligning chuck. I have only a 4 jaw independent chuck at the moment. Is a 4 jaw self aligning better that a 3 jaw? I looked at some 6 jaw chucks and they are very expensive.

Since you were asking about knurling tools my recommendation would be to find an Eagle Rock model K1-44 (Heavy duty) for your size of lathe - http://specialtytooling.eaglerockon...-k1-44-heavy-duty-scissor-type-knurling-tools




They do show up on e-bay quite regularly so you shouldn't have to pay the "new" price for them.

You also asked about a self-aligning chucks and what to get. Here's a bit of an explanation of the different types of chucks to hopefully help with that decision.

The independent 4-jaw chuck is the most accurate of the chucks as you can dial it in to whatever runout you are comfortable with. They are also the go-to chuck for offset cuts or irregularly shaped objects. Their main drawback is that they take a bit more set up time. Although with practice you can get the setup time down to where it's not much of an issue. I've had my independent 4-jaw on my lathe since I got it a couple of years ago and have seen no reason to put on the self-aligning 3-jaw.

That being said, the self-aligning 3-jaw (and 6-jaw) chuck does have it's place. If you are doing a run of parts where the runout isn't as critical you can save a lot of time by using a 3-jaw. They also handle hex stock much easier than on a 4-jaw. You can get what is called a "set-true" chuck which allows you to adjust the runout on the chuck but you also get in to more expense with this kind of chuck. The 6-jaw, although similar to the 3-jaw, is more of a specialized chuck. It is used mainly for holding easily deformed pieces like a thin walled tubes. The six jaws give more "grip" without adding a lot of pressure.

The 4-jaw self-aligning chuck is fairly rare and I really don't know what their intended use is. The problem being even "square" stock is not always exactly square. When one of these chucks would try to tighten up on it you will almost surely have one jaw that is not making contact the same as the others. You'd really have to hunt to find one of these and I wouldn't recommend it anyway.

There's the basics, and I'm sure I've left a number of details out but hopefully that gives you a better idea of what chuck you will need for what you want to do.

JMHO

-Ron