Tool Holder Hotel

[Tolerent]

How many QCTP Holders is enough and what should I consider doing to keep them out of the way and easy to find and manage?

Given the resources and space would having:

• One set dedicated to holding replaceable carbide tools for hard metals.
• One set dedicated to holding replaceable carbide tools for soft metals.
• One set dedicated to holding shop ground HSS tools.

So my questions seem to be:

• How many holders in each set? (inside and outside turning, threading, ???)
• Which general purpose holders to use as default holders? (250-201 or 250-201)
• How to keep a plethora of holders with sharp edges from hiding when I need them and cutting what I don't want cut?

I am new to precision machining so anticipating a steep learning curve. in my previous life precision with my own work was seldom measured in anything finer than 32nds and that because I am a perfectionist. My lathe should arrive in a few weeks. It has a BXA tool post and comes with a few 250-201 and 250-202 tool posts. There are also parting, knurling, and boring tool holders but in my current perception those are peripheral to the matter at hand.

What do you all reccomend?

Also as a side note do you generally kiss the edge of a new carbide insert with a diamond lapping stone before putting it into use or use as received?

 

[DavidR8]

I'm far from an expert, but I have nine holders and I expect to add more shop-made holders.
I have eight dedicated holders for carbide and HSS

• Facing, turning and threading both HSS and carbide (6 holders total)
• Boring carbide only (1 holder)
• Parting HSS only at this point. (1 holder)

 

[Tolerent]

Given a starting point with a few flat bottom (201 type) holders and a few with the v groove (202 type) bottom would you add some of each going forward or prefer the flat bottom over the grooved style when you did not know you would be mounting a round rod in the holder?

I am leaning toward 80% flat bottom holders. https://www.amazon.com/Accusizetool...s=250-201+bxa&qid=1586879926&s=hi&sr=1-4&th=1

 

[DavidR8]

Given a starting point with a few flat bottom (201 type) holders and a few with the v groove (202 type) bottom would you add some of each going forward or prefer the flat bottom over the grooved style when you did not know you would be mounting a round rod in the holder?

I am leaning toward 80% flat bottom holders. https://www.amazon.com/Accusizetools-Boring-Turning-Facing-0250-0202/dp/B017M9HLN0/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=250-201+bxa&qid=1586879926&s=hi&sr=1-4&th=1

That's a good question. I think part of the decision depends on what size tooling you're using.
I use 3/8" HSS and 1/2" shank carbide tools. I just checked to see if a 3/8" HSS bit would span the groove and indeed it does.
So for me it would not make a difference as I could put any tool in a grooved holder. Others with more experience may differ and I'd certainly put more weight to their comments.

 

[ThinWoodsman]

If the insert tools are the same size, you can use the same tool holders for hard and soft metals. You're unlikely to switch from hard to soft metal in the middle of turning a workpiece, and the toolheight settings will not change if the tools are the same.

I didn't feel like buying a whole bunch more toolholders when moving from BXA to CXA; I now have a few dedicated tools (threading, parting, left- and right- trigon, and a triangle insert) in holders, and everything else is set as I use it. With a center-height gauge (ala Joe Pie) it's really not too much trouble to swap a tool into a spare holder.

Oh yeah, on the subject: I recently encountered Aloris *XA-6 and -13 holders and got one of each to experiment with. The -6 can be used to hold multiple tools (e.g. roughing and finishing), a wide form tool, or a tool and a toolpost-mounted-follow-rest (as popularized by Frank Ford). The -13 is an extension that is useful when you need to work close to the tailstock. I am keeping these open as floating tool-holders.

EDIT: Regarding 201 vs 202, the groove can be a liability with narrow tools (e.g. a 1/4" tool in a 1/2" toolholder) as the outer corner tends to fall into the groove when tightening. So 80% flats sounds about right.

Regarding carbide inserts, I use a diamond hone before use. Really helps 'em get a bite into the metal, especially with shallow cuts. Carbide inserts are very dull compared to HSS tools but it only takes a couple passes with a hone to give them an edge.

 

[macardoso]

I like the grooved bottom holders as they work for both square and round shank tools without any drawbacks to either.

My setup is this:

• CCMT Facing/Turning tool (Insert for Steel)
• CCMT Facing/Turning tool (Insert for Non-Ferrous)
• SCMT Chamfer tool
• VMCT RH fine finish tool
• VCMT LH fine finish tool
• 3/4" CCMT boring bar
• 1/2" CCMT boring bar
• 1/2" !R16 Threading tool
• 3/8" LH (upside down) 11IR Threading tool
• MTVOR (TNMC) RH external threading tool
• HSS Parting blade holder
• Thinbit Groove N' Turn grooving tool (purchased for a paid job - works AWESOME)
• MTGNR TNMG holder for heavy roughing

Obviously not necessary to have all of these, but thought it might be interesting to share.

EDIT: I never use small tool bits in my holders (always 1/2" shank tools) so I don't need to worry about the groove. It is always bridged.

I have an AXA toolpost.

 

[ChrisAttebery]

Here's my selection so far:

OD:
Non Ferrous CCGT 32.51 RH, Center (Chamfer and Face), LH
Non Ferrous TCGT 32.51 RH 15 degree, LH 15 degree
Ferrous CCGT 32.51 RH, Centered (Chamfer and face), LH
Nikcole Mini Systems THE-7-1/2RH.500 (external threading and grooving)
Shars 11/16" Retrofit GTN-2 cut off and grooving blade

ID:
Shars 1" SCLCR Indexable Boring Bar - CCGT 32.51 inserts 1.25"+
1/2" SCLCR Indexable Boring Bar - CCGT 32.51 inserts 0.625"+
3/8" ???? Indexable Boring Bar - CCMT 520 inserts - 0.375"+
Shars 5/8" Indexable Threading Internal Threading Bar - 16IR inserts - .75"+

Home brewed BXA dial indicator holder.

2 empty BXA - 201 style holders for job specific HSS form tools, solid carbide tools, etc.

17 holders total.


Here are some pictures of the rack I made. This was only about 2/3 of the tools I have on it now.

 

[Tolerent]

If the insert tools are the same size, you can use the same tool holders for hard and soft metals. You're unlikely to switch from hard to soft metal in the middle of turning a workpiece, and the toolheight settings will not change if the tools are the same.

I didn't feel like buying a whole bunch more toolholders when moving from BXA to CXA; I now have a few dedicated tools (threading, parting, left- and right- trigon, and a triangle insert) in holders, and everything else is set as I use it. With a center-height gauge (ala Joe Pie) it's really not too much trouble to swap a tool into a spare holder.

Oh yeah, on the subject: I recently encountered Aloris *XA-6 and -13 holders and got one of each to experiment with. The -6 can be used to hold multiple tools (e.g. roughing and finishing), a wide form tool, or a tool and a toolpost-mounted-follow-rest (as popularized by Frank Ford). The -13 is an extension that is useful when you need to work close to the tailstock. I am keeping these open as floating tool-holders.

EDIT: Regarding 201 vs 202, the groove can be a liability with narrow tools (e.g. a 1/4" tool in a 1/2" toolholder) as the outer corner tends to fall into the groove when tightening. So 80% flats sounds about right.

Regarding carbide inserts, I use a diamond hone before use. Really helps 'em get a bite into the metal, especially with shallow cuts. Carbide inserts are very dull compared to HSS tools but it only takes a couple passes with a hone to give them an edge.

My thought was setting a tool on a holder properly takes a lot more time than swapping out holders. At $20 each a holder is cheaper than the time value of just a dozen or so tool swaps. I am sure some hobbyists are even swapping the carbides out for different passes or as materials are changed. I would not want my half worn carbides mixed with new or the challenge of tracking which edges are used and which are ready to use. I pretty much think when a bit holder gets a bit in it and gets mounted in a tool holder that there won't be any changes to that assembly except rare height adjustments and indexing the bit clockwise until time to discard it or to flip it over for the remaining edges. I can't imagine swapping a silver bit for a gold bit in the same holder if I have the option to have a second assembly. Ideally all my swapping will be assemblies swapped out on the BXA post.

 

[Suzuki4evr]

In my opinion you will never have enough.I have 15 from wich I made 11 and it still is not enough. As you go along you will need and want more. Storage, as Chris showed in the post before mine, I do it basically in the same way,I just mount my dickonson tipe holders at a 45dgr angle. Carbide inserts you use as they come. Hope this helped a bit.

 

[macardoso]

My thought was setting a tool on a holder properly takes a lot more time than swapping out holders. At $20 each a holder is cheaper than the time value of just a dozen or so tool swaps. I am sure some hobbyists are even swapping the carbides out for different passes or as materials are changed. I would not want my half worn carbides mixed with new or the challenge of tracking which edges are used and which are ready to use. I pretty much thing when a bit holder gets a bit in it and gets mounted in a tool holder that there won't be any changes to that setup except rare height adjustments and indexing the bit clockwise until time to discard it or to flip it over for the remaining edges. I can't imagine swapping a silver bit for a gold bit in the same holder if I have the option to have a second assembly. Ideally all my swapping will be assemblies swapped out on the BXA post.

I totally agree here. My most used tools (CCMT OD turning and facing) are duplicated for steel/cast iron inserts and aluminum inserts.

I paint my inserts corners with red Dykem when they are used but good, and blue when they are worn or chipped. The red inserts end up being used for roughing and when an insert is all blue, it goes in my carbide graveyard. Started doing this one day because I was bored, but since then it has been a useful habit.