Thoughts on moving a JVM-830F milling machine into the basement?

[vintageiron]

I currently own a low hours but 35 year old 1.5hp Jet JVM 830 Milling machine. Its badged as an MSC model from where it was bought in the mid 1980's but I
was told its basically a Jet JVM830F
It was bought by a relative who did some hobby machine work and farm maintenance with it and several other machines.
I've had ownership of the location and the equipment for 20 or so years now and have used it very sparingly myself.
Its main use has been for the occasional fly cutting job, some light fabrication, and mostly just as a heavy duty drill press.
I'm told it weighs in at or just over a half ton. (The original shipping weight on the pallet and crate was 1204 lbs total shipping weight.
The crate and shipping materials and iron brackets were likely close to 100lbs.

I'm approaching retirement age and no longer plan to maintain that location and the plan is to sell the place in a few years.
I've been knocking around either selling the mill and just buying something smaller, or to move it to my home basement.
I can move the machine from its current location easy enough, its getting it down the narrow wooden stairs into my 75 year old house.
I've hauled large items up and down the steps before and have reinforced the under supports of the stairs. I just removed a 400 lb freezer from the basement,
which took two guys and a handtruck. That likely put 1,000 lbs on the steps since I and my helper both weigh over 300lbs, plus the 75" tall commercial freezer and Harper hand truck. Weight on the steps shouldn't be an issue.

The plan would be to remove the motor, then the upper turret section as a whole, then to remove the handles and the table.
That leaves me with the Z axis slide assembly and the main body of the machine.

Has anyone ever moved one of these types of mills or disassembled one for such a move?

I have the original papers for the machine, and have had the table off before, but removing the lower section is a bit more involved.

I'm mainly wondering what the base casting weighs with and without the lower Z axis lift assembly?

I'm thinking that the cast iron framed motor is likely around 90 lbs, with its mount and cast iron pulley attached, the upper turret assembly looks like about 200 to 225lbs or so complete with the belt cover in place, and the table, which is 9x36", is likely between 125 and 160 lbs or so if you include the screw and handles.
The lower lift assembly is likely as heavy as the whole table itself, its a rather thick chunk of cast iron and is likely in the 150-175lb range.
These weights are all a guess just by looking at it as it sits.
I do know that I cannot budge the thing where it sits. No amount of pushing or lifting by hand moves it so much as a fraction of an inch and its not bolted down.

The casting doesn't seem all that thick but it is cast iron. Its currently sitting on leveling pads, which will also get removed.
I'm also thinking about putting it on a platform once reassembled in my basement to gain a bit of working height.
My basement has 7ft 4in ceilings and a solid concrete floor. The top of the machine on its current rubber machine pads is 74".
I'd like to see another 4in of height for ease of use for a guy my size, but its not an absolute requirement and can be done anytime.
I have rigging gear, winches, rollers, a 1 ton truck and heavy trailer, so moving it is no big deal, its just going require finding a volunteer to help.

I figure if so long as I can get it down to less than 400 lbs, its doable. Getting the weight down to under 300 would be even better but I think I'd rather
take less apart than to deal with having to reassemble things that didn't need to come apart.

I am thinking though that if I do remove the lower lift assembly, I'll likely be able to do the whole move alone, at my own pace and not in any sort of rush.

There's also two small Craftsman lathes, one a 12-36 (Atlas 3000 re-badge). which I definitely will be keeping. We determined that it was a 1959 model that I myself first assembled in 1988 and used only for personal use since new. Its on a full cabinet. I'm thinking its not much over 300 lbs complete. I can lift the motor end off the ground by simply grabbing the edges of the cabinet and I'm not the picture of fitness at my age.

I did consider selling the mill and going one of two ways, either keep one of the larger mills, and go through the needed work to locate one of those into the basement, or sell this one too and just find a table top model that's easier to move or a larger drill press which in many ways makes more sense in some ways.
The important piece to me is the 12-36 lathe, I have plenty of use for that, but the mill isn't a requirement. maybe it would be if it were more readily at hand in the basement though.

I'm a bit torn between keeping it and giving up the space permanently in the basement, or to sell it and put something I'll use more often in its place.
From what I see these selling for I don't see it worth me selling it.
Either way, come the end of 2022, it will be moved or sold to allow me to eliminate the long drive to where its located now.
I also can't say I'm looking forward to moving the mill down a flight of steps though.

 

[nnam]

Remove move and reassembled is very doable. However, down a narrow stairs may be hard. It appears to be a small machine though.

If it's me, I have to think very hard and be frank with myself if I would use it enough to justify the hard work. Alternative is smaller machine like you said.

Selling the house at the right time can get you 10x milling machines or even more. With high inflation and the rate may go up, it's an indication, but who know the future.

 

[vintageiron]

Selling the current location has been in the plans for a long time, its not near where I live and its too far to check on regularly.
Its not about the sell price but a matter of convenience and not having another property to maintain and worry about.
A little bit of me wants to move south to someplace cheaper and warmer, so putting something difficult to move in the basement may not be the best plan right now but I also refuse to give the mill away for nothing. I'd shrink wrap it and stick it in a storage trailer first.
It would be different if it were some old worn out machine but I've known the machine its whole life, and its not had more than a few dozen hours of use on it since it was new, and its been well kept. I've likely used it more in the past few months than its been used its whole life.

I could however get by with a really heavy duty drill press 99% of the time, and the band saw and belt sander the rest of the time.

I keep getting told that used mills aren't worth more than $1000 or so, for that little I'll keep it. I can't buy a good used drill press for that amount.
I had a guy from a local used tool dealer come out and make a few offers and the only machine he made a real offer on was a CNC conversion mill also from MSC, but I sold that for nearly double what he offered a week later. There are two full size mills, one 2hp and one 3hp, both are Asian Bridgeport clones. One from MSC, the other an Astro, which I think also came from MSC in the mid 90's. None are very used machines.
If I were to keep one of the larger machines I'd likely keep the Astro because its got full Mitutoyo DRO's on it and X & Y power table motors on it.
That one has an hour meter on it, the meter shows 2.37 hrs since new. That same dealer offered me $500 for it. I have a guy who's offering me $4k for it but I've not given him an answer or a price yet. It can't be bought for that much new and its basically a brand new machine. That dealer went on about how the thing will need thousands of dollars in refurbishment due to age, he said that the DRO's are obsolete and that the wiring will all need to be replaced.
I don't see how DRO's can be obsolete and there's no internal wiring whatsoever in the thing, its a motor and barrel switch on a bracket, and a lot of iron.

I used it last week and i certainly couldn't find anything wrong with it. I opened up the bore size on a buddies VW engine for him, and fly cut a set of cylinder heads for the same motor. I like that machine but its huge and fitting it into my basement will mean carefully placing the motor so it clears between the floor joists above. Its also overkill for most all I use it for. My uncle bought it off a buddy who ordered it and went bankrupt when he lost a couple big contracts before ever setting it up for use in his shop.

I have a buyer for the larger MSC mill, the guy taking that one offered me more than it cost new in 1991 so if figured that was fair enough and I won't have to lift a finger to move it. its only got two way DRO readouts on it for some reason. It was never my favorite and I'm glad to see that one leave too. It leaving also clears the path to get the smaller mill out and moved.

I sold a Brown and Sharpe horizontal mill two weeks ago, it was a smaller machine that never did get much use.
I also sold a Do-All 7hp surface grinder that was in fair condition. All he used it for was sharpening tooling but the magnetic table was only 7x20" or there about. I didn't see it as a very useful tool for the space it took up.

I was really glad to see that get loaded on a truck and leave. It took up the space of a small car with the coolant tank, filters, and grinder itself.

I kept two of the larger drill presses but the bigger of the two is only 17" and 1hp made by Rockwell. the other is the biggest model Craftsman sold in the early 80's or so. Its 1hp and 15" with a pretty decent size table and an attached cross slide table on it. Its not rigid enough to really do any milling though.

Its going to take most of the year to move it all, there's 29 full tool boxes of tools, 11 steel work benches, a power hacksaw, two band saws, (keeping those), a tire machine, a huge commercial Quincy air compressor, both Kwik Way and Black & Decker valve grinders, and seat grinder sets, two OTC shop presses, several larger parts washer tanks, two glass bead cabinets, (keeping those), two large bent sanders, four large welding tables, two Lincoln mig welders, and a truck load of raw steel and small parts he accumulated over the years, plus a huge amount of parts room shelving. All in all there's enough there to fill three tractor trailers and then some I suppose. I've kept the place around for a number of years just for my own use and for storage but the cost of taxes there and the drive is getting to be too much and it has to go. I don't want to be dealing with it all when I'm too old to do it either. Not having to worry about will also be a relief, especially when I go to FL for months at a time.

 

[nnam]

You got so much good stuff there.

 

[BGHansen]

My Jet JVM-830 was in the basement of my old house before I met my wife. I removed the motor and head and carried those down the stairs. I tied two 2x12's together and slid the base/knee/table down with a come-along. The top of the stair stringers were braced with 4x4's to the basement floor as they were likely secure with just some 16D's. Lot's easier going down than coming back up!

Bruce

 

[Winegrower]

Lot's easier going down than coming back up!

This is what always occurs to me when I read these posts. When I had a basement in the old days and put big stuff down there, well…it seemed like a good idea at the time. Later, not so much.

 

[vintageiron]

My Jet JVM-830 was in the basement of my old house before I met my wife. I removed the motor and head and carried those down the stairs. I tied two 2x12's together and slid the base/knee/table down with a come-along. The top of the stair stringers were braced with 4x4's to the basement floor as they were likely secure with just some 16D's. Lot's easier going down than coming back up!

Bruce

The problem I have here is that the basement steps are in the back of the house, the door is in the middle of a long hallway. To get to the stairs, you have to go through the kitchen, past two closets, and a bedroom, and make a right turn down the steps. The doorways are 36" wide, so that's not an issue but making the turn from the kitchen to the hall is a tight sort of zigzag move as the little hall between the kitchen and the rear hallway is offset about a foot or so. The house has arched doorways everywhere and the structure for the arches makes for a side structure to navigate around.

I was able to get a freezer out and a refrigerator back down there with no problem so as long as i can lessen the weight enough it should be doable. Its just hard to find anyone to help that I can count on not to panic and let go or something bad if things go a bit sideways.
I've moved big machines around quite a bit over the years but never through a house and down wooden stairs. The staircase is 40" wide with a 32" door at the top. The bottom of the steps fall just 39" from the basement wall. Which isn't ideal but not a deal breaker.

The way the stringers are secured to the top are also my concern, I'd be putting a pair of 4x4's in there as well as a two mid way down. I thought about adding a couple of cross braces as well and making the braces permanent. The stairs are sort of in the middle of the house at the top.

My thought is also that they didn't budge with that huge freezer and two big guys on them over the summer when we removed the freezer, so I doubt its a big issue if the base is under 400 lbs or so, or even 500lbs for that matter.

How much did you figure the bottom half weighed?

 

[Ischgl99]

See if you can find a safe mover to get it down there for you, they have probably seen the obstacles you have many times. They would probably have a motorized stair climbing dolly that would easily do that, or the manpower to do it manually. By removing the head and table, the weight should be in a manageable range.

 

[vintageiron]

My Jet JVM-830 was in the basement of my old house before I met my wife. I removed the motor and head and carried those down the stairs. I tied two 2x12's together and slid the base/knee/table down with a come-along. The top of the stair stringers were braced with 4x4's to the basement floor as they were likely secure with just some 16D's. Lot's easier going down than coming back up!

Bruce

View attachment 388823

After looking closer at your pic, I think the table on mine is wider. I have a pair of 6in Bridgeport vises on my table, one at each end, and I still have plenty of working room in between. The one vise was originally set up for a particular repetitive job, I added the second vice for misc use.
There's at least room for three more vises in between. I'm thinking that the table on mine is another foot or so longer.
The rest of the machine looks pretty much the same other than color, mine is that battle ship gray with a hint of blue in it. If i keep it, I'll be looking for a good used DRO set up for it. Mine has an auto fogger set up for drilling too, but i added that about 20 years ago.

There's also a pallet or two of Tapmagic fluid there in 5 gallon buckets. The buckets are getting brittle though, I need to pickup some new buckets to transfer the stuff into. The top on the last one fell apart in my hands when i tried to pull up the pour spout to refill the lube tank on the wall behind the mill and adjacent lathe.

 

[BGHansen]

The problem I have here is that the basement steps are in the back of the house, the door is in the middle of a long hallway. To get to the stairs, you have to go through the kitchen, past two closets, and a bedroom, and make a right turn down the steps. The doorways are 36" wide, so that's not an issue but making the turn from the kitchen to the hall is a tight sort of zigzag move as the little hall between the kitchen and the rear hallway is offset about a foot or so. The house has arched doorways everywhere and the structure for the arches makes for a side structure to navigate around.

I was able to get a freezer out and a refrigerator back down there with no problem so as long as i can lessen the weight enough it should be doable. Its just hard to find anyone to help that I can count on not to panic and let go or something bad if things go a bit sideways.
I've moved big machines around quite a bit over the years but never through a house and down wooden stairs. The staircase is 40" wide with a 32" door at the top. The bottom of the steps fall just 39" from the basement wall. Which isn't ideal but not a deal breaker.

The way the stringers are secured to the top are also my concern, I'd be putting a pair of 4x4's in there as well as a two mid way down. I thought about adding a couple of cross braces as well and making the braces permanent. The stairs are sort of in the middle of the house at the top.

My thought is also that they didn't budge with that huge freezer and two big guys on them over the summer when we removed the freezer, so I doubt its a big issue if the base is under 400 lbs or so, or even 500lbs for that matter.

How much did you figure the bottom half weighed?

I'd be guessing at 700 lbs. Naturally, the more you take it apart, the easier the job moving it. If you pulled the table, the base/column/knee would be pretty manageable. You may want to lay some 2x10s flat on the floor to save any carpet or vinyl.