Thoughts on a spider

[mac1911]

It’s an older machine (imported I’m sure) with a fairly short bed, but a pretty standard 3 in 1. A steady rest, which I don’t have, won’t solve the problem.

The work piece is a very old (circa 1892) lever action with an octagon barrel. The rifling is gone from the last 1/2” of the bore and the plan is to backbore it to get to the rifling that’s left. I don’t want to try breaking the barrel loose and taking it off the receiver if I can avoid it.

In the first pic, the spindle bore is shown with the clutch housing around it, at the top of the triangular gear and belt setup. The gun receiver would be sticking out past this area, hopefully held, supported, and centered by something. The muzzle would be as close to the chuck as I can get it for rigidity.

Do you have a piloted reamer ? pin gauge the bore and use a piloted reamer ? This might work for you.

30 Cal. Muzzle Brake Reamer - Pacific Tool and Gauge

.30 Cal. Muzzle Brake Reamer at Pacific Tool and Gauge

pacifictoolandgauge.com

I dont think you really need to chuck this up in the lathe.
Finding a way to mount it from the tailstock end. Or if you your mill head can clear the bench find a way to mount the barrel and use it like a drill press.

If the muzzle is that worn the throat and bore are probably not that great anyway so you wont gain much in accuracy.
I know years ago there where a few smiths that relined these old black powder rotted bores. Not very elaborate set ups.

 

[Tincamp67]

I don’t have a piloted reamer, but have access to borrow reamers. Short of a chamber cast, I have no way to measure any erosion at the chamber end. Would there be that much erosion with such a low power cartridge. I’m assuming the muzzle is shot from 120 years of steel ram rods sliding in to it.

Also, I only have a handful of pin gauges, and not the right ones for this. I’ve measured the unmolested bore as deep as I can with my starrett bore micrometer, at .4022, about 3” in from the muzzle. At the muzzle, which isn’t round, I get about .405 to .407. I believe the bottom of the grooves should be .408, assuming manufacturing specs were the same 125 years ago, as now.

A sharp dental pick will catch the tiniest bit of part of one of the grooves at the muzzle. Not consistently all the way around.

 

[mac1911]

I don’t have a piloted reamer, but have access to borrow readers. Short of a chamber cast, I have no way to measure any erosion at the chamber end. Would there be that much erosion with such a low power cartridge. I’m assuming the muzzle is shot from 120 years of steel ram rods sliding in to it.

Years of corrosive powder does not help.
Do you have a good picture of the crown and muzzle end.

 

[mac1911]

I don’t have a piloted reamer, but have access to borrow reamers. Short of a chamber cast, I have no way to measure any erosion at the chamber end. Would there be that much erosion with such a low power cartridge. I’m assuming the muzzle is shot from 120 years of steel ram rods sliding in to it.

Also, I only have a handful of pin gauges, and not the right ones for this. I’ve measured the unmolested bore as deep as I can with my starrett bore micrometer, at .4022, about 3” in from the muzzle. At the muzzle, which isn’t round, I get about .405 to .407. I believe the bottom of the grooves should be .408, assuming manufacturing specs were the same 125 years ago, as now.

A sharp dental pick will catch the tiniest bit of part of one of the grooves at the muzzle. Not consistently all the way around.

I would say depending on any value left in the rifle to leave it alone.

What make model caliber is this rifle.

How does it shoot now. It might be easier to find a good barrel.
Or just put the money spent into this one on a newer better shooting one.

If its a tube fed magazine rifle although it might look odd you can just face off the barrel back to just proud of the mag tube. ?

 

[Tincamp67]

I would say depending on any value left in the rifle to leave it alone.

What make model caliber is this rifle.

How does it shoot now. It might be easier to find a good barrel.
Or just put the money spent into this one on a newer better shooting one.

If its a tube fed magazine rifle although it might look odd you can just face off the barrel back to just proud of the mag tube. ?

Marlin 1889, 38-40, lever action. It shoots a shotgun pattern at 25yds. I can keep my shots on a pizza box, but no predicting where the next round will go. Leaving it alone means it can go down the road. I like guns I can shoot. This was intended to be a mild recoil, cast bullet gun for steel targets at moderate distance. Just something fun to plink with.

I’m game for the back bore, can’t hurt it since the muzzle area is ruined anyway. It won’t cost me anything and might help the accuracy. If I decide on a re-line, it would have to be reamed out all the way through anyway.

 

[pontiac428]

Counterboring the worn muzzle will not add value to the gun, it will do the opposite. The exception to that is if you are restoring the rifle with a liner to make a functioning restoration. However, guns with any collector value at all are always worth more as-found, rust and all.

The guys are right about the throat leade from the breech being more worn than the bore, that is always the case. The throat is also the part of the barrel with the greatest impact on accuracy.

When I get the itch to cut up a gun, and I do, I buy some junk and geek out on that. Nobody will miss a Turk Mauser or a postwar Howa. Anything remotely interesting to collectors should be left alone. It doesn't take much time working behind the gun counter to see some truly atrocious, borderline criminal "clean-up" jobs on otherwise highly collectible antiques. Even if it was great-grandpappy's hack work from ninteen ought three, which might be historical in its own right, but probably not unless your grandpappy's name was Alexander Henry or Samuel Colt or John Browning.

 

[mac1911]

Marlin 1889, 38-40, lever action. It shoots a shotgun pattern at 25yds. I can keep my shots on a pizza box, but no predicting where the next round will go. Leaving it alone means it can go down the road. I like guns I can shoot. This was intended to be a mild recoil, cast bullet gun for steel targets at moderate distance. Just something fun to plink with.

I’m game for the back bore, can’t hurt it since the muzzle area is ruined anyway. It won’t cost me anything and might help the accuracy. If I decide on a re-line, it would have to be reamed out all the way through anyway.

Im the same way , if they dont shoot to a level of happiness. They go down the road. Nothing I own is highly collectable as far as $$$$
If I where to sell what I have today i might gain about 8% , lol

I installed a NOS Israeli NATO k98 barrel on my well worn russian capture k98. I to shoot lots of cast through the old iron and wood.

You might have a easier time casting bullets to the throat and pick up a little accuracy that way.

 

[Janderso]

I'm no gunsmith but I made a spider for my lathe a while back. I believe this style would work on the head stock side.

 

[pontiac428]

Mac, what was the Isro k98 bbl chambered for, .30-06?

A sleeve job is one thing, it retains the exterior and provides a functional rifle. Rebarreling probably isn't the way to go on an octagonal 1889, but octo barrel blanks are available without additional costs over a cylinder blank. That would give you a non-original but mechanically sound shooter. Without doing any sort of setback and re-chamber (which isn't even possible on most lever guns), you can counterbore the muzzle and end up with a non-original non-shooter. That's kind of the worst of all scenarios.

What if I told you I had a clean, hand-flaked toolroom Monarch EE8, and wanted to do an ELS conversion with a DC main treadmill motor swap and DRO... and I would drill and tap all mounts and re-cut bearing caps to accommodate cheap metric bearings because they are easy to get. Okay, that would end up as a working lathe, but is it the right machine to cut up? Would any observers shed tears along the way?

 

[mac1911]

Mac, what was the Isro k98 bbl chambered for, .30-06?

A sleeve job is one thing, it retains the exterior and provides a functional rifle. Rebarreling probably isn't the way to go on an octagonal 1889, but octo barrel blanks are available without additional costs over a cylinder blank. That would give you a non-original but mechanically sound shooter. Without doing any sort of setback and re-chamber (which isn't even possible on most lever guns), you can counterbore the muzzle and end up with a non-original non-shooter. That's kind of the worst of all scenarios.

What if I told you I had a clean, hand-flaked toolroom Monarch EE8, and wanted to do an ELS conversion with a DC main treadmill motor swap and DRO... and I would drill and tap all mounts and re-cut bearing caps to accommodate cheap metric bearings because they are easy to get. Okay, that would end up as a working lathe, but is it the right machine to cut up? Would any observers shed tears along the way?

Surplu NOS Israeli 7.62( 308 win) NATO k98 barrel.

Israeli K98 Mauser Barrel, 23.5", In The White, 7.62 NATO, *NOS*

Israeli K98 large ring Mauser Barrel, 23.5 length, 7.62 NATO, In The White, *New Old Stock*. Sold Individually.These are great upgrade barrels for your large ring M98 Mauser action!Show some signs of wear from storage; marring, scratches, surface rust, grime, etc... Parts must be inspected and...

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I mainly shoot light gallery loads with trailboss powder and some 110gn 308s I picked up cheap in large amounts years ago. Nice 100 yard hole maker

The K98 as it stood was a mis matched painted Russian capture I picked up for $150 with a few thousand rounds of 8mm surplus ammo. I sold the old corrosive ammo I sold a few years later to recoup the cost of the rifle. The owner said it never shot well and the ammo was iffy.
I ended up shooting cast bullets through the 8mm cal/bore over sized and was able to get it down to 4 moa. When these nato barrels popped up for $90 it was a no brainer. Not a authentic re built Israeli NATO rifle but not out of line with " history" lol

as far as the lathe conversion ? Its tough if the lathe was some what useless as it stands and cost to "rehab" it to function vs sitting around waiting to part it out or go unused? Its a toss and all personal.
If I was partial to 1889 marlins and 38-40 for shooting and putting a smile on my face I would source a 1889 shooter. They come up here and there around here and are mostly steel wool scrubbed basement resto pieces. Run about 650-900 for a good bore.
Wall hangers are running about 350-500

with old worn bores I try to regain as much accuracy as possible by casting bullets that fit the wear better.

theres a slew of shooters on castboolits.com that are masters at getting old iron shooting better with proper sized cast bullets.

Im not good at videos or tracking progress with pictures, Heres a more recent poor thing to cross the threshold.

Amazingly it dod shoot and I was able to put the first 10 rounds on paper at 100 yards into a 6" group. very surprised