There is a big problem with 3D printers

Running out of other people's ideas is definitely a problem - UNLESS you've learned some form of CAD yourself. At that point, there are few limits. I've printed all kinds of things. I always check to see if someone has solved the problem for me, and often times they have, but I'm willing to go to town in my CAD program of choice and make what I want as well.

GsT
 
Two comments: first, it hardly seems reasonable to buy a 3-D printer if you don’t do your own CAD.
Second, it’s probably best to get something in the Prusa range or better. My strong advice after a few years of experience in 3-D printing is to not even bother with any of the $200 Chinese trash. I know, I know, this is dangerous territory, but the trade-off between price and frustration is worth something. The reliability of the process, quality of the finish, range of materials, size of work envelope, after market support, slicer/software, needs for upgrades (vs working well out of the box) all matter and I remember how confusing I found them all.

Just my two cents.


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koenbro said:
Two comments: first, it hardly seems reasonable to buy a 3-D printer if you don’t do your own CAD.
Second, it’s probably best to get something in the Prusa range or better. My strong advice after a few years of experience in 3-D printing is to not even bother with any of the $200 Chinese trash. I know, I know, this is dangerous territory, but the trade-off between price and frustration is worth something.

Just my two cents.


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Upon reflection…I have to emphasize total agreement with you on both points.

Having been trained in 3D modeling starting in 1995??…it is only second nature to whip something up and print it. It has never occurred to me how out of reach the technology might seem to someone without some CAD experience.

On your second point, I wish I knew then what I knew now, but I also wish I had the money I have now back then! Such is the dilemma of hobbies and technology like this. My first printer was the Creality Ender 3 v2. And I think I bought everything for about $400…equivalent printers are now in the sub $200-$250 range. I’m glad I sold it and went to Prusa. Creality is good if you like to tinker. And you will tinker, repair, mod, tinker some more, repair, flash new software, etc. sometimes to success, sometimes to utter failure. I gave up on upgrading my Ender main board, hot end, and hot bed…could never get it to print consistently or even run sometimes. That product line and slew of aftermarket parts from third parties is akin to releasing Gremlins in your shop. That’s not the kind of tinkering I’m interested in.

The Prusa products are well tested and developed and also well supported. There are costs to this but this is just me stating that things like value propositions exist in this space. Where as most people think all 3D printers are the same, they couldn’t be more wrong.


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koenbro said:
Two comments: first, it hardly seems reasonable to buy a 3-D printer if you don’t do your own CAD.
Second, it’s probably best to get something in the Prusa range or better. My strong advice after a few years of experience in 3-D printing is to not even bother with any of the $200 Chinese trash. I know, I know, this is dangerous territory, but the trade-off between price and frustration is worth something. The reliability of the process, quality of the finish, range of materials, size of work envelope, after market support, slicer/software, needs for upgrades (vs working well out of the box) all matter and I remember how confusing I found them all.

Just my two cents.


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I dunno if I’d call the chinese stuff “trash”, but it seldom is ready to go right out of the box.

My cr10 V2 would print fine right out of the box, but it also wasn’t a $200 printer.

I think most people would do well to remember that a Chinese 3d printer is like just about everything else that’s “inexpensive” Chinese; its not a finished product, its basically a “kit”.

You have to tear it down and put it back together to spec to make sure its giving you its best.

Same experience I have with most cheap Chinese things like vices, tools, plasma cutter, etc: I have to take them apart, do my own QA and then assemble with an eye towards detail. They have all given good service to me after the “qa treatment”.

All part of buying “cheap”. In essence: there is no free lunch…instead of $$$$$ on the front end, you end up doing labor on the back end.
 
Our plant engineer bought an Ender and spent 2x on repairs and mods. The coworker in the next desk bought a Prusa 3 and other than a fan on the head and a couple new nozzle assembles, that is it over the same 3 years or so.

I myself put a deposit on Prusa XL and will get that in the new year maybe.
Pierre
 
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great white said:
I dunno if I’d call the chinese stuff “trash”, but it seldom is ready to go right out of the box.
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To clarify, my choice of words was mostly a lazy shortcut. I am writing this on my Apple MBP which is made in China and is superb, with flawless fit and finish; there are countless other examples.

Ultimately it is not about the Chinese; they will make to a price point set by the buyer and it is up to the buyer to order trash or a piece of industrial design art. Apple and Harbor Freight are both customers in China, yet they seem light years apart. Hope am not stepping on the sensitive toes of any HF value proponent as I am trying to illustrate my point.

In summary: it is the $200 that is limiting the quality/reliability of the 3D printer, not the COO.
 
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koenbro said:
Apple and Harbor Freight are both customers in China, yet they seem light years apart.
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This has been a great discussion because it brings to light details that one can only guess at before buying. Being CAD impaired was an obvious stumbling block I could not get around, so unless that changes I won’t be buying one. Also the difference in the price vs constant tinkering. Some like that and in the case of HF I don’t mind mechanical probs but when it gets to electronics that a no go for me.

it’s funny you bring up Apple and HF because that’s one of those that I find Apple to be making a killing on profits and not passing on the savings to customers while I’m constantly thinking how can they make this stuff for this price at HF. Once again a matter viewpoint I guess.
 
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I haven't printed anything that I didn't draw up in CAD. I'm not opposed to using existing designs, but for the oddball things I've done so far, I can draw it up faster than finding, culling, and downloading something existing. I'm sure I'll eventually find want some oddball nick-knacks that will be easier to download, but the utility of 3D printing for me has been for my own designs.
 
The main difficulty I had when using/downloading others' designs is that I almost always need to change them and it is usually hard because ppl do not upload fully parametric designs. Huge limitations of the download services. So I end up designing my own.

Case in point: I needed a micrometer stand. Well Mitutoyo has several designs with small differences between them so at it happens, after like 10 hrs of printing turns out the one I downloaded doesn't fit my micrometer. So I took a photo of mine, imported into Fusion360 and literally sketched around it. Then I uploaded it specifying the model number (that might change in the future so the problem remains for possible future users).
 
koenbro said:
The main difficulty I had when using/downloading others' designs is that I almost always need to change them and it is usually hard because ppl do not upload fully parametric designs. Huge limitations of the download services. So I end up designing my own.

Case in point: I needed a micrometer stand. Well Mitutoyo has several designs with small differences between them so at it happens, after like 10 hrs of printing turns out the one I downloaded doesn't fit my micrometer. So I took a photo of mine, imported into Fusion360 and literally sketched around it. Then I uploaded it specifying the model number (that might change in the future so the problem remains for possible future users).
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Just an fyi: tinkercad is made for mostly beginners, but it does let you modify stl files easily. Whereas most other 3d/cad programs I've used won't handle that process nearly as well.
 
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