The Telltale Bearing (Samson/BPT clone with noisy head)

DMS

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After spending the last couple days spend ripping the drive portion of my new milling machine apart to find the source of a horrid noise that it made during operation, I finally found the source; it is both better than I had feared, and worse than I had hoped.

It all came down to the the lower pulley support bearing which sits under the lower half of the front split pulley, right between the break pads. The bearing had seized, and was spinning on the shaft, causing the noise I was hearing, as well as a lot of wear on the shaft; the "very clever" folks who previously owned this machine must have been running it for quite a while like this. I lucked out in that the bearing is a run of the mill deep groove ball bearing (6010), $10us for an el-cheapo, $30 for a fancy name brand.

Now we get to the "worse than I hoped" part. Because the machine had been running for so long like this, the shaft (well, the bearing actually presses onto a hub on the lower split pulley) is so worn that the bearing moves freely. As an aside, I think that is why the noise is more like a rattling than a squealing; I think the gap is large enough now that the shaft assembly was precessing inside the bearings inner race (ker thump ker thump ker thump).

This is really annoying.

So, my task now is to figure out how the heck to get this thing back together. I have a couple possibilities in mind. But I'd like a second (third, fourth, fifth...) opinion.

Option A: Remove the variable speed drive, build up a hub from mild steel, and add in some fixed pulley. The motor is 3 phase, and I have a VFD, so I would not loose variable speed, but as somebody else pointed out, with that approach I loose some torque on the low end.

Option B: Turn the existing hub down to remove the damage, then press on a mild steel sleeve. I like this, but the hub is part of a pulley that I don't think I could turn on my lathe (I have a little 7x14). I could try doing it with a boring head on my X2 mill, it may be doable. I could of course pay somebody to do this part... maybe that's an option. Maybe this is the "excuse" I need to upgrade my lathe as well, though my wallet is still smoking from recent purchases, and the holidays are coming up...

Option C: Add material to the hub to build it up (welding wire, turcite, bronze brazing material?), then turn to the desired size. Again, small lathe may require outsourcing/doing the work on another machine

Option D: Try to source a new pulley. It's possible the grizzly models are similar enough that I could just get a new one. Not sure how to be sure without actually buying one.

So anybody have any better (brighter) ideas. My current favorite is B.
 
Knurling a shaft will allow a pretty sloppy fit to tighten up - along with some removable loc-tite would probably fix it up (if the bearing isnt TOO loose)

When I was young and always broke, I had an old clunker Chevy 4x4. a front wheel bearing spun on the hub and was pretty sloppy, not having any money for a proper fix, I decided to use the 'bearing fit' loc-tite (I cant recall the proper name) --- I drove that old truck for another 3-4 years and sold it with the loc-tite still keeping that bearing "loc-ed tite".

I agree on the sensorless vector VFD, I run mine down under 20hz probably more than not....
 
I've not gone down the VFD trail yet, so I'd sleeve up the hub and keep it original. Since you already have the VFD, and you have to do some machine work either way, that may be the better way to go.
 
Knurling a shaft will allow a pretty sloppy fit to tighten up - along with some removable loc-tite would probably fix it up (if the bearing isnt TOO loose)

When I was young and always broke, I had an old clunker Chevy 4x4. a front wheel bearing spun on the hub and was pretty sloppy, not having any money for a proper fix, I decided to use the 'bearing fit' loc-tite (I cant recall the proper name) --- I drove that old truck for another 3-4 years and sold it with the loc-tite still keeping that bearing "loc-ed tite".

I agree on the sensorless vector VFD, I run mine down under 20hz probably more than not....

I thought about knurling when I thought the "hub" was attached to when I though that part would pull clean from the pulley. Turns out it is integral to the pulley, so I don't think I could get the knurl in there. In any case, I measured it, and the wear is about 0.063" (WOW!). The wall is only about 0.200, and there is a keyway cut that fits the drive shaft. I would be worried about crushing it. It's also not worn evenly, I posted a drawing of the assembly and wear point.

<shakes head> I can't believe they were still using this machine like this....

I was initially pretty gung-ho about scrapping that "complicated variable speed drive", but after seeing how this thing is put together I don't think it is as easy as I had initially thought. I think I'm going to try building a sleeve and silver brazing it on to the turned down hub. If I screw it up... well, there is always a backup.

pulley_wear.jpg
 
Sounds like a plan! I'm always looking for good excuses like that!

You might want to try the option D first assuming the Griz part isn't all the expensive.

I looked at the parts list for the Grizzly G9903. Looks like the assembly is similar, and it takes the same bearing (6010-2RS), so I am hopeful that it would fit, not sure of cost or lead time. If things don't work out with a repair, I will see about that approach.

I had a great (maybe?) idea this morning. JB Weld! I There is not a lot of force on the area I need to repair, and if I can build the area up enough I should be able to machine it down to a nice snug fit. I was surfing the web this morning to see if others have done this, and it looks like they have. Guess I'll give it a try.

DMS
 
Ahhh! JB weld, sounds like a possibility.... JB weld and loc-tite, two fine products for the home shop.
 
you might be able to get the bearing with an undersized i.d. .. might cost a bit more but could be another approach to check into..


i dont think you'll be able to get the variable frequency drive to operate well enough to your liking, especially without the ability to change gears.. [plus if you run a motor too slow you risk burning it up, and motors arent real cheap..




fix it correctly... it'll make the mill worth more..
 
Well, the Grizzly part is a different design (mates with a splined shaft instead of a keyed shaft), so I figured I would move forward with my JB weld patch job. The bearing pressed on tight, though I think the JB weld may have been damaged a bit. The bearing didn't press on straight on it's own, so I had to get out the feeler gauges and some test blocks to make some fine adjustments. Its in there straight now. The shaft is pressed back onto the pulley and the whole assembly is ready to mount. I stopped for the evening because I want to finish cleaning out the bottom portion of the head before re-assembly.

I don't know how long this will hold up, but in any case it will be better than turning a frozen bearing. If I have to do it again I think that brazing rod will be worth a try.

DMS
 
I was contemplating that; I feel like it's a better job for a lathe though, and my current lathe is undersized. Before I finish assembling the head I may take some measurements to see if it is even possible. I have a feeling this is going to hold a while though, the stresses on this joint are pretty minimal (just belt tension and drive force on belt, it is isolated from all cutting forces). Heck, they ran this thing with a seized bearing for who knows how long ;)

Anyways visions of pulleys will dancing through my head as I carve my way through an assortment of side dishes (and some turkey if I make it that far). To everyone in the US, happy Thanksgiving, and to everyone outside the US, cheers!

DMS
 
Thinking more about why they would put a spline on the lower pulley it didn't make sense, so I double checked the parts diagram... looks like I ended up with the upper pulley half rather than lower pulley half. Not sure if I misspoke on the phone or the CSR mistyped. Maybe they will accept an exchange? Looks like the lower pulley half is cheaper in any case.

DMS
 
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