Talk me out of this lathe -OR- don't (Grizzly 0602)

When I started looking for a lathe, the PM 10x30 or 11x27 seemed like my target. I didn’t appreciate most of the various features but I knew where the budget would start to be an issue. Then all of a sudden a G0602 popped up on Craigslist for $750 and I jumped on it. Some aspects of a larger and nicer machine would be great, but it has been enjoyable. No other used lathes in the several months I looked were that affordable other than pretty small things.

I’d most like to change the motor to variable speed, as the belt system is a pain. And a real gearbox would be nice as the change gears are a little intimidating. I know I should get over that and get familiar with them...

I don’t mind the mod scene as that’s an activity I enjoy. So I look forward to making some improvements over time.
 
I don’t mind the mod scene as that’s an activity I enjoy. So I look forward to making some improvements over time.

That is actually how I ended up with an Enco 9x20. I really didn't need it, but it was cheap, in good shape and nearby. I thought it would be fun to tinker with and do some of the mods to make it better. Also handy for the metric thread cutting which my vintage lathe isn't set up for (the metric gear set costs quite a bit more than I paid for the Enco).
 
There is something nice about getting new even if it's an import from China. I fondly remember uncrating my Grizzly G0709 around 5 years ago. I've had no issues with my Grizzly machine.

I hit Craig's List (used the web site searchtempest.com) for 'metal lathe'. Here are a few in CA and NV that may be of interest:

12 x 36 import lathe - asking $1600

Clausing 12 x 24 (?) - might be a 4800 or 4900 series with a 1 1/2" x 8 screw on chuck. Asking $1200

Import 12 x 36
 
It might be interesting to take a look at the attached inspection sheet from Sheldon. See how the tolerances of a machine built for commercial use compare the machine tolerances to those of the Grizzly 10x22" lathe #G0602Z you are considering.
 

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  • Sheldon Inspection Sheet.docx
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It's ALL about context. Usage, new, old, size, cost, 'Merican vs Other:

Usage: what will you use it for? What will be cut? How long are the parts you expect to cut on it?

New/old: Much like buying a car, there a lot to be said for both. New, you pretty much know what you're getting, and get a warranty, and spend far more money. Used, you have to know what to look for and avoid. A big question is: are you looking for a tool to immediately put to work and produce accurate results, or a restoration project? Do you want 0.001 accuracy or 0.0001? Do you need that accuracy?

Size: how much room you have will strongly focus the options.

'Merican vs Other: Probably the most contentious factor of all, and again, it depends entirely upon the buyer's mindset. Either source can be justified depending upon your situation. Just keep in mind that buying used equipment doesn't hurt or harm any country. A typical comment heard is "that foreign POS lathe wouldn't last a day in our (commercial) shop." The answer is "right, and it's not going into a commercial shop, is it." In the right context, an import lathe may well outlive a domestic machine simply because it's use 100X less.

Bonus issues:
Beginners usually overlook tool cost, and as more experienced hobbyist point out, figure a couple thousand for that, regardless of the machine. And finally, the cost to get the machine into your shop. Doing it yourself saves a lot of money, or puts you in the hospital, or worse, if you fail. It's thousands of pounds to deal with, so previous experience is mandatory. Paying someone to move it sure makes things easy, but going even 5 miles can run between $200 - $800.

---

I've owned two lathes, both used. The first was a Grizzly 12x36 Taiwan-built lathe from the early 1980s that I got in the late 1990s for $1200. It served me well during fabrication of the two scratch-built cars in my signature. I never once needed all of the bed length for what I used it for.

Eventually I decided to restore it, and even had the parts on-hand. The only thing holding me back were stories about what it took to get the head stock apart. During that hesitation, a late 1980's Japanese-made Takasawa TSL-800 popped up for sale not 3 miles from home. I had just become intrigued by them and long story short, ended up with it for $1500. The "800" refers to the bed length (31"), so even though it weighs more than twice as much as the Grizzly, it fit in the same physical space. I expect that it'll exceed all my needs. The Grizzly was sold for $1500, so the Takasawa was essentially a free upgrade, but of course new tooling blew that savings out of the water.

Lastly, I, too, live in the San Diego area and there are always many lathes on CL. Number one piece of advice, don't be in a hurry.

PS: I did buy a new Taiwan mill. I'm very happy with it, but do wonder if buying used would have been better; the problem is defining what "better" means. Oh, and regarding having a DRO, I've used machines both with and without. Personally, I REALLY like having a DRO on the mill, but on a lathe, I consider them very much a not-so-necessary accessory.
 
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Tons of great feedback here guys, thank you. Just hearing how those with experience feel about import mills really helps.

To address kb58's important points:

Usage: most of what I expect to be making is small. Aluminum standoffs for bolts, steel dowel pins of various sizes, that sort of stuff. But I want enough size that when I get familiar with the machine and start realizing what could be made with it that I can make that larger, more complex part. Which is why I was considering at least 10x22.

I don't foresee using this more than for a project or two per week at most. It will likely sit for weeks between use at times, then get powered up when that need for something that only the lathe can solve arises. Definitely falls into the "hobbyist" category rather than "production".

I do want something that can be put right to use. I don't want a restoration project (don't have the familiarity with a lathe yet to do a restoration anyways).

I would like accuracy to about 0.001"

Size: I have space, can make freestanding room if needed, but the "benchtop" 10x22 or 10x30 would be convenient as I have a very long bench across one wall where that could go.

Moving: Buying new would be the easy button. Can have it delivered to the shop via freight with a liftgate right onto our loading dock and pallet jack it in from there, engine hoist to get it up on to the bench. If I bought used I'd have to take an engine hoist with me in the truck to load/unload. Having just bought a 2,700 lb vertical mill on Craigslist and transported that in my truck from Los Angeles to San Diego and rented a forklift to unload it here and get it into the building, the lathe looks relatively easy.

That PM-1030V is the current leader in my mind.

Tooling cost: I suppose this applies to all first-timers, anyone who hasn't had a lathe yet needs to starts with none of the essentials. What would you guys consider the most common tooling? My current list is pretty short; a HSS tool set is about it.
 
Drill chuck and live center for the tailstock, whatever lathe you get determines the taper. MT2 and MT3 are common in smaller machines. Some center drills as well.

HSS blanks and a grinder. See the model tools thread and we'll get you a set. 3/8 blanks are a good choice for this size.

A decent caliper and micrometer. I recommend older analog micrometers from the big names. Ebay has a bunch for reasonable prices. I love my mitutoyo digital caliper, but it might be an upgrade for later depending on budget. Shars has some I hear work well for much lower cost. Even HF isn't horrible, but they tend to be glitchy when the battery is low.
 
I would agree with ttabbal as far as measuring equipment is concerned. Name brand used from eBay is a good option. As for the micrometers I was advised to purchase a 0-1", 1"-2", and 2"to 3" when I started working in a shop in the 1980's. Mine are the lower end Starrett mechanicals. I still have them today and still use them on a daily basis. They're just as accurate today as they were in 1980. Since then I have acquired Starrett's up to 6", but find 90+% of the work I do is with the original 1" to 3" models.

I have a number of Mitutoyo and Starrett calipers in addition to several from HF. Those from HF don't have the same fit and finish of the higher end brands, but they are just as accurate down to .001"and cost next to nothing compared to the others. Mine are between 10 and 15 years old and operate fine. They use a $1.99 battery every couple years, but given the initial price, and accuracy they're far worth the money. You can usually pick them up for $20.00 or less, and as low as $9.95 when they go n sale. In reality I use the HF ones as much or more than the Starrett's and Mitutoyo's. Should they get dropped or damaged you won't be out a ton of money

If you intend to purchase a 4 jaw chuck, which I think you'll find will be a go to accessory in the near future, I would also purchase a DTI and magnetic base. Again there are several DTI's available on eBay for reasonable prices. You can buy higher end magnetic bases, but I don't think they're any better than those available from Shars or HF. I have probably a dozen different bases of various brands and they all work well.

I'm making the assumption that your machine will come with a quick change tool post. If it does I would also consider a few extra tool holders. Shars is a good source for these items, just make sure you get the size and style that fit your tool post. Again I have a couple dozen of these and they're all decent quality. They usually run between $10.00 and $15.00 depending on the size and configuration. Prices may be a bit higher these days due to the added tariffs.

If spacers are on your list of things to fabricate I would also get some countersinks to deburr the through holes. I find KEO and MA Ford single flute models work well on both the mill and lathe. They are a bit more expensive than others, but seem to last almost indefinitely. I bought a set of MA Fords (1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 3/4") back in the 1980's when I was working in a prototype shop. I still have them today, and I've only had to sharpen them a couple times in over 35 years. I'm sure in that time they've countersunk and deburred thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of holes.
 
When I started looking for a lathe, the PM 10x30 or 11x27 seemed like my target. I didn’t appreciate most of the various features but I knew where the budget would start to be an issue. Then all of a sudden a G0602 popped up on Craigslist for $750 and I jumped on it. Some aspects of a larger and nicer machine would be great, but it has been enjoyable. No other used lathes in the several months I looked were that affordable other than pretty small things.

I’d most like to change the motor to variable speed, as the belt system is a pain. And a real gearbox would be nice as the change gears are a little intimidating. I know I should get over that and get familiar with them...

I don’t mind the mod scene as that’s an activity I enjoy. So I look forward to making some improvements over time.
The 602 OEM drive configuration is a pain to use. I modified mine and belt changes are less than a minute with no fumbling now.
 
G0602 Lathe Horror...

home user...started up lathe...crack, boom, bam, click

cannot run it like this


removed belts to isolate noise...


noise definitely motor....crack, boom, bam, click

shined flashlight back of motor, could see fan not moving properly!!!

cracked_fan.JPG



enlarged motor mount holes...

enlarged_hole.JPG



shims under motor mount pads, what the xxxx!!!

shims_motor_mount.JPG










Charl
 
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