Sieg X2 vs X2D + CNC question

[Robobro]

Hi, I am interested in getting a mini mill. I had a sherline 2000 for a while but sold it and frankly I was never very happy as the column constantly rotated.

1. Is the tilting column on the Sieg X2 bad? Should I get the X2D with the fixed column instead?

2. Generally speaking, are these machines OK? When I purchase one what should I verify after getting it home? How well do they generally work after a CNC ball screw upgrade?

 

[macardoso]

Hi Robobro! Welcome to HM, we hope you enjoy your stay

I also started with a Sherline (Spectralight) 2000 CNC mill. I understand the limitations for sure. I have since owned a G0704 converted to CNC thrice, and I am in the market for something even more substantial.

Really it all depends on your budget and what work you want to do on the mill. If you can elaborate a bit, I can try and suggest whether or not you will be happy with the new mill.

I think hobby guys fall into a few categories, help me understand where you fall:

• I like playing with machines, I don't how long it takes, or how nice the end result is, just glad to be making chips.
• I want light duty quality parts, but budget is tight and I don't mind fiddling with the machine to get it there.
• I want light duty quality parts fast, and I'm willing to spend a bit more to get there
• I want light duty quality parts and I don't want to tinker with the machine to make that happen. It should work out of the box.
• I need some more rigidity for my projects, my work will mostly be steel and I want to use tools like the professionals do!
• I really need more rigidity. I work on cars, tractors, etc.
• I plan to make money in my shop and will set up what is needed to make that happen. Time is money.

 

[Robobro]

Hi Robobro! Welcome to HM, we hope you enjoy your stay

I also started with a Sherline (Spectralight) 2000 CNC mill. I understand the limitations for sure. I have since owned a G0704 converted to CNC thrice, and I am in the market for something even more substantial.

Really it all depends on your budget and what work you want to do on the mill. If you can elaborate a bit, I can try and suggest whether or not you will be happy with the new mill.

Hi, longterm I want a CNC mill that create smallish parts for robotics and other hobby applications. I have a 3d printer but sometimes the parts are too weak so I want something that can create strong parts, mostly alum but sometimes steel. Maybe some gun smithing also. With a rotary table I also hope it can act as a basic lathe.

I don't have a lot of experience with machining.

What is considered OK tolerances for these types of applications?

Besides cost, I also want something I can move by hand and can sit on a sturdy desk. The bigger mills are too big for me and my location which is pretty small. I have no way to move something that has 250lb parts.

ALSO:

how does the sieg X1 compare? It's a lot cheaper.

 

[macardoso]

Hi, longterm I want a CNC mill that create smallish parts for robotics and other hobby applications. I have a 3d printer but sometimes the parts are too weak so I want something that can create strong parts, mostly alum but sometimes steel. I don't have a lot of experience with machining. Maybe some gun smithing also.

What is considered OK tolerances for these types of applications?

Besides cost, I also want something I can move by hand and can sit on a sturdy desk. The bigger mills are too big for me and my location which is pretty small. I have no way to move something that has 250lb parts.

Awesome! I would suggest you look seriously at the G0704/PM-25 sized machine. It is at the upper end of your weight range but the head and table can be removed to bring the lift weight down.

I can attest that the machine is perfect for heavy work in aluminum and light work in steel. It is too small to use most indexable tools, facemills, etc, but can handle a 3/8" endmill in aluminum and 1/4" endmill in steel very well.

The lighter duty machines will struggle with rigidity, forcing worse tolerances and slower cutting. The G0704/PM-25 is far from perfect, but it seems to be the best option when it comes to benchtop mills under $2k.

My CNC can hold tolerances within 0.005" all over, however with better ballscrews, I could probably do better. Local tolerances (bores, reamed holes, small features, etc. ) can be held to tenths with proper setup and care in machining.

I am a big robotics fan so I'll use that as an example: bearing holes need to be held within a few tenths, which is not too hard to do with a boring head. General machining is much more open and +/- 0.005" would be fine. Here is a robotics project I've been working on.

Mike's SCARA Robot

Hi All, Some of you may have seen me write about how much I am interested in industrial robotics. I've been looking for an old robot to play with for 3-4 years now and one just happened to pop up! Many people are familiar with the 6 axis articulated robots that are often shown in factories...

www.hobby-machinist.com

The major limiting factor in all benchtop machines is the useful Z travel. This gets used up FAST. For example, my G0704 has 9" of useful Z travel. Take 2" off that for the vise, 2" for the drill chuck, 3" for the drill length, and add a part 1.5" tall, all of a sudden you only have 0.5" to spare. Take this into account if considering a smaller machine.

 

[macardoso]

There are also larger machines if your budget allows, without going too heavy. In general, more weight is a desirable trait from the perspective of using the machine.

 

[silence dogood]

I own a LMS 3960 mill. The 3990 uses a gas strut instead the spring which is a great improvement ( I converted mine to counterweight and it's makes a big difference). I'd recommend the solid column. It has more mass and makes the mill more rigid. If you want to tilt, get a tilting table or vise.

 

[Robobro]

Awesome! I would suggest you look seriously at the G0704/PM-25 sized machine. It is at the upper end of your weight range but the head and table can be removed to bring the lift weight down.

I can attest that the machine is perfect for heavy work in aluminum and light work in steel. It is too small to use most indexable tools, facemills, etc, but can handle a 3/8" endmill in aluminum and 1/4" endmill in steel very well.

The lighter duty machines will struggle with rigidity, forcing worse tolerances and slower cutting. The G0704/PM-25 is far from perfect, but it seems to be the best option when it comes to benchtop mills under $2k.

My CNC can hold tolerances within 0.005" all over, however with better ballscrews, I could probably do better. Local tolerances (bores, reamed holes, small features, etc. ) can be held to tenths with proper setup and care in machining.

I am a big robotics fan so I'll use that as an example: bearing holes need to be held within a few tenths, which is not too hard to do with a boring head. General machining is much more open and +/- 0.005" would be fine. Here is a robotics project I've been working on.

Mike's SCARA Robot

Hi All, Some of you may have seen me write about how much I am interested in industrial robotics. I've been looking for an old robot to play with for 3-4 years now and one just happened to pop up! Many people are familiar with the 6 axis articulated robots that are often shown in factories...

www.hobby-machinist.com

The major limiting factor in all benchtop machines is the useful Z travel. This gets used up FAST. For example, my G0704 has 9" of useful Z travel. Take 2" off that for the vise, 2" for the drill chuck, 3" for the drill length, and add a part 1.5" tall, all of a sudden you only have 0.5" to spare. Take this into account if considering a smaller machine.

Thanks for the info, if I had more money(and a stronger back) then G0704 would be a good option but for a base mill I want to keep it under 900$ if possible.

Do you think the tilting column is a good or bad feature on the sieg X2 mills? LittleMachineShops X2D has a fixed column - is this better?

I probably won't CNC immediately but that is the long term goal, a CNC kit total cost will probably be 800-900$(basically the same cost as the mill unfortunately, unless you know of cheaper kits).

 

[macardoso]

I'd go for the fixed column. Your biggest struggle will be rigidity. No other mill has a tilting column, so there are a ton of fixturing methods to drill angled holes in parts.

$800 would be the very cheapest you could go for CNC I would think. You're $400 in with motion controller and software (ESS+Mach 4), although Linux CNC is free if you prefer that. Steppers and drives will run you $200+. That doesn't even touch the conversion hardware. Ballscrews, shaft couplings, end supports, etc.

 

[Robobro]

I'd go for the fixed column. Your biggest struggle will be rigidity. No other mill has a tilting column, so there are a ton of fixturing methods to drill angled holes in parts.

$800 would be the very cheapest you could go for CNC I would think. You're $400 in with motion controller and software (ESS+Mach 4), although Linux CNC is free if you prefer that. Steppers and drives will run you $200+. That doesn't even touch the conversion hardware. Ballscrews, shaft couplings, end supports, etc.

Thanks, that makes sense. I think I can get the steppers and controller for ~$300, the G-code is uploaded to the controller like a 3d printer so it doesn't need to keep timing. The CNC conversion hardware is the thing with the high cost.

 

[Robobro]

I own a LMS 3960 mill. The 3990 uses a gas strut instead the spring which is a great improvement ( I converted mine to counterweight and it's makes a big difference). I'd recommend the solid column. It has more mass and makes the mill more rigid. If you want to tilt, get a tilting table or vise.

Are you happy with it overall? Any serious defects?