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[Noteworthy] Scraping In A Precision Straight Edge

Discussion in 'MACHINE RESTORATION & WAY SCRAPING' started by Ulma Doctor, Apr 11, 2015.

  1. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Hello again,
    i started another project that will enable me to do more projects, scraping in a precision straight edge. it's dimensions are 2 9/16" wide x 15" long x 3/4" thick!
    the straight edge has a 60* dovetail on one side, for use as a reference when scraping dovetails.

    A member, John York, graciously offered me a great deal on a cast iron straight edge blank!!!!
    i took him up on it- it really was an excellent deal!!!
    i took Richard King's class in oakland in 2013, John was in the class but had been scraping long before i met him.
    He's a great guy and has a mind strong as a steel trap !
    he really knows his craft and he's a really good man.:)

    i did an initial scrape and stoning of the straight edge before putting it on my surface plate to get the initial blue up.

    Hand%2BScraping%2Ba%2BSrtaightedge%2B1.jpg

    about 10 cycles in...
    Hand%2BScraping%2Ba%2BSrtaightedge%2B2.jpg

    20 cycles in...
    Hand%2BScraping%2Ba%2BSrtaightedge%2B3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
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  2. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Ulmadoc,
    That's great!
    I took Kings class Fall 2014.
    I picked up a closeout Busch 48inch camelback cheap.
    And am looking for a 12-18inch casting that I want to afford.

    Is it clear to your readers how you are holding the casting on the bench?
    Then sharpening the hand scraper and then how to hold and bump it?

    Daryl
    MN
     
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  3. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Looking good! Need to do some more heavy scraping in the middle to get the ends to start showing blue. Then work on getting your point per inch!!!
    Not trying to butt in, just trying to help!
     
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  4. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Hi Daryl,
    thanks for reading, always good to hear from you!
    Scraping has become more than activity, it has become a passion for me!
    I'm still searching for a reasonably priced camelback blank to scrape in.

    For this scraping operation, i'm using a giant pair of parallel woodworkers clamps that i purchased at HF with a 20% off super coupon!
    thanks Inside Track Club!!!
    The parallel clamp is secured to the bench with a large pair of Vise Grip 11R locking clamps,
    then the work is secured in the parallel clamp by twisting the adjusting handles.

    For sharpening my scrapers, i just recently installed a 6" 100 Grit Green Grinding Wheel on my pedestal grinder (link below):
    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/delrin-grinding-wheel-arbor-spacer.34482/

    The angle chosen for the grinding of the carbide was 3*- which coincidentally changes when scraping different materials.
    i'll mostly scrape cast iron- so the 3* was settled on.

    to sharpen the scraper, i'll hold my left index finger on the grinders' tool rest and plop the scraper blade on my finger.
    then using a arcing motion on the handle with my right hand, i hinge the blade on my finger. it allows 2 things- control of the force of the blade into the wheel and to make pivoting the blade very precise as well. i'll then hone the blade on a diamond stone to finish.

    i hold the hand scraper at about a 30* angle in reference to the work, and the work placed at a 45* angle to me.
    during roughing operations the strokes are heavy and long- i put a lot of force to the scraper and cast iron dust flies!
    the strokes become shorter and less pressure is applied to the scraper as the work starts flattening out.
    when you get to near finishing, the strokes are very minute, a simple bump on the end of the positioned scraper will take a very small fine cut for maximizing points per inch. Arguably, 40 points per inch is excellent scraping- most hand scraping is 20-35 points per inch dependent on purpose and skill of the scraper.

    The best analogy i could come up with is that you are basically creating a million small mountains, and knocking their peaks off as to have 20 to 40 mountain tops per inch in the same plane of height.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  5. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Thanks for reading 4gsr, I'm obsessed with scraping now!!!!
    the scrapes you see outside the blue was the initial reference scrape, i have been concentrating on the center of the blank.
    as you can see the contact is broadening every cycle!!!
    thanks for the pointers!
    I appreciate the help!:tranquility:
     
  6. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks, I don't claim to be an expert as Richard is, but been doing it off and on for many years now. I haven't quite caught on to the "technique" that Richard uses, but I don't do it for a living either! In fact I've gotten spoiled to using the Biax to scrape with that I only hand scrape for areas that the power scraper can't get into and for some heavy scraping. I'm planning on meeting Richard when he comes down to Steve's scraping class near Houston next month for a day or two. My health won't allow me to stand for 8 hours at a time much less three days of it! Main thing is , i like to meet him let us put a name to a face since that is the only contact I've had with him is by email. I have a 3 foot straight edge I've been working on for over a year now. Had rough scraped it in and found out that edges and sides were not parallel to one another. I also stress relieved it with a rubber hammer. So it's back at the shop that did the original machining on it for me. With special instructions on getting it parallel for me. Then I'll go in and finish scrape it. I also have a smaller one I made similar to the one you are making. It's also at the same shop getting some alterations made to it too. When done i'll post some pictures of it.

    DSCN2072.JPG DSCN2074.JPG
     
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  7. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Hi 4gsr,
    i love to biax scrape !!!
    i have an old one that works great, and another one that needs some motor brushes.
    they are great to use and make short work of things, no doubt!
    the reason i'm hand scraping this project is to graduate to the next step of hand scraping,
    namely performing dovetail scraping operations.
    i have an Antique Flather Lathe
    ( http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/antique-flather-lathe-16x36-s-n-270.33911/ )
    that is going to be scraped back in, in stages, by hand.
    I'm doing it as a tribute to Joeseph Flather and his gifts to modern machining practices and to lathes especially.
    seems the least i could do.
     
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  8. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Yes, scraping dovetails is my weakness, too!

    And they are very hard to power scrape. I have some carbide blades ground for my hand scrapers just for doing dovetails with.
     
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  9. randyc

    randyc United States Active User Active Member

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    I admire you guys for the patience, ability and passion (as Ulma Doctor expressed it) required to produce those precision surfaces. I also like the fact that you are all "students" of Richard King, who is one of my heroes. He's a remarkably helpful guy with decades of expertise that he willingly shares ! :)
     
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  10. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Thank you Randy,
    a lot of patience is necessary, it forces one to go at a slower pace since we are literally removing a thousandth or less in a scrape.
    there is no way to effectively speed the process, less the introduction of power equipment.
    Even then there is a lot of bluing up, measuring, stoning and scraping before the next cycle even begins, so one step only sets up for the next stage.
    you can touch and handle a piece you are scraping a thousand times or better to get it to precision level.
    i tried to keep track but became easily confused because it was another step i failed to train myself to add to the repartois .
    but i assure you that you'll become very intimate with anything you scrape.

    i find that knowledge is a thing that is best shared whenever there is an ear to hear it, or eye to read.
     
  11. randyc

    randyc United States Active User Active Member

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    You are VERY welcome - any compliments to you guys are well-deserved !

    BTW, I recall your (famous to me) comment about scraping your wife's cookware EVERY time that I see a post about scraping - here or elsewhere. I was sipping on a beer when I read that comment. You gave me such a belly laugh that beer spewed out of my nose, LOL !
     
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  12. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    i'm glad you got a laugh!:)
     
  13. brav65

    brav65 Active User Active Member

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    Mike, nice work on the new scraping project. As the master said to his student "when you can walk on the rice paper and leave no mark you will be a master". I just looked and there are no marks on the rice paper...Master.

    I have been out of commission with bad allergies, so have not gotten to work with you masterpiece yet. I have it sitting on the shelf in the kitchen so I can see it every day. Thanks again.

    Brooks
     
  14. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Thanks Brooks,
    i'm merely a grasshopper trying to do good work, but thanks for the vote of confidence!
    i have been suffering some hay fever myself for the last week, snifflin sneezin' you know the drill!!!

    I hope you feel better soon!
    i'll sometimes stage projects in plain view so when i walk past, i can't help but see stuff that needs doin'. it helps to keep thing fresh in my head
     
  15. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    well, back at the salt mines...
    were getting a lot better contact, the straightedge is starting to hinge correctly on the surface plate.
    Hinging, for the uninitiated, is the act of handling one end of the piece being scraped on the inked up surface plate in an arcing fashion, to see the point of greatest contact for the opposing end, which is about 1/3 the distance from the end of the work when a properly scraped piece is hinged.

    2015-04-13.jpg


    and after a few more heavy scraping cycles....

    2015-04-13.jpg

    as indicated by the light blue, the surface contact has broadened greatly.
    another score of cycles will be necessary to call it flat!
     
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  16. The Liberal Arts Garage

    The Liberal Arts Garage United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Unsought advice: now is a good time topour and level the concretepierson which
    your Flather will live. After a couple of months, set the lathe in place, shim to level
    Forget it for at least a few weeks, check for level when the Spirit moves you.
    My admiration for your Courage Ex-Flather Owner......... BLJHB.
     
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  17. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Thank you for reading and for the advise,
    the lathe is sitting on 3 points right now and most likely will be for a couple months.
    i'm doing the scraping on the straightedge to do some dovetail work on my SB11, so that i may, in turn, put it back together.
    i'm planning to get the SB11 working before tearing the Flather down.
     
  18. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    as soon as i got home from work today, i got right back on the horse and started scraping again!:D
    heres what i got done today!

    Hand%2BScraping%2Ba%2BSrtaightedge%2B6.jpg

    Hand%2BScraping%2Ba%2BSrtaightedge%2B7.jpg

    Hand%2BScraping%2Ba%2BSrtaightedge%2B8jpg.jpg

    as you can see the contact is greater than 95%. there will be more work to just complete this one side.
    I believe it's starting to get flat!!!
     
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  19. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    and a little flatter....
    Hand%2BScraping%2Ba%2BStraightedge%2B9.jpg
     
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  20. Joe in Oz

    Joe in Oz Hong Kong Active User Active Member

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    either your ink layer on the surface plate is too thick or you rubbed it too vigorously. That last photo tells you nothing about glatness or spots per squsre inch bearing....
    Try rollng out the ink thinner or thin it with some light oil and try again.
     
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  21. LEEQ

    LEEQ United States Active User Active Member

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    I agree about the thick spotting agent. I believe it is canode and as such can be thinned a bit with windex. The closer you are to done, the thinner you want your canode. No harm in cleaning everything and trying another spotting cycle.
     
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  22. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Hi Joe,Thanks for reading,
    i had just reapplied the ink to the surface plate before the last picture, it is a bit thick.
    it does show the broadening contact only, it was meant to illustrate that only.
    my camera doesn't pick up the small inked spots very well, to compensate my ink is a little thicker than i would normally use. Thank you for the information.
    the ink thins as it is transferred off of the surface plate to the work every time you rub.
    in the next series of pictures i'll be scraping for points , this part of the op is for flatness.
     
  23. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    I was very fortunate to have made some new friends yesterday and got to scrape with another member again, Bob Korves.
    I was invited to scrapefest2015 at Oxtools in Benicia,Ca. Tom was the host!
    heres a couple of enhanced pictures from my scraping at #Scrapefest2015 (sorry for the poor quality images)

    o97jZPiwl7hd8N48GD1rSAJHrNSMQs8J-ueXvXpuMvo=w957-h281-no.jpg

    i3iR1PXfgaQHYdzR6iBcla-Z-ANlkyzHALibrgnQXGI=w958-h241-no.jpg

    i changed up for the point scraping, i went to the Biax for a while.
    qyEmgU2UjK7gSRonUSbL7Rvbdh1o-ZpzDqNVK1G4Nik=w958-h331-no.jpg
     
  24. The Liberal Arts Garage

    The Liberal Arts Garage United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    - uDidn't I see a mention of some red dye a while ago which is said to be even
    more pessimistic than the blue ? Do this one up perfect; have a surface you KNOW
    is perfect. Designate a softwood panel reserved to set the straight edge on Always.
     
  25. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    Yes the red showed on camera better as well, it was a thinner ink and was an interesting contrast to looking at blue.
    i'm shooting for perfection, i hope not to disappoint!
    thanks for the advise , i'll construct a special box upon completion.
    i'm no woodworker, but i'll make exception for a worthy cause.
    thank you as always,
     
  26. partsproduction

    partsproduction United States Iron Registered Member

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    I made a similar statement in another thread five minutes ago.
     
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  27. brav65

    brav65 Active User Active Member

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    Not only are you a Zen master but a California movie star too! I watched Tom's video last night. Send me the dimensions of the box you need and I will make it for you I have some nice Cocbolo and Brazillian Walnot that would make a beautiful box for your show piece. :cool 2:
     
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  28. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    You are waaay too kind....:chunky:, i had a lot of fun with the fellows at scrapefest 2015!

    Wow, Brooks!!!
    What a generous offer, i'll measure the piece and send the dimensions
    thank you very much!!!
     
  29. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    i have done a little work over the weekend on the straightedge.
    i deviated from the original plan, there was going to be a lot of hours in just roughing.
    i thought it best to save some time. I cheated a little and had to use the newly constructed long blade for the biax scraper.
    i'll be finish scraping by hand, to try to keep a small semblance of the original plan.
    here's the progress on the rear side...:D
    Hand%2BScraping%2Ba%2BStraightedge%2B12.jpg
     
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  30. Primitive_Pete

    Primitive_Pete Active Member Active Member

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    very cool! When is the next scraping class in Oakland?
     

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