Replicating the Tormach Tool System?

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burdickjp

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So I just got introduced to Tormach's Tool System.
http://littlemachineshop.com/Instructions/U10044M_Tormach_Tooling_System.pdf
http://littlemachineshop.com/Instructions/DS10052_TTS_Catalog.pdf




I think it's a really cool idea and was looking into how I could do something similarly. There's a few adaptations for my specific application:

  • My mill takes MT3 collets
  • I've already go a full set of ER-32 collets and collet chucks
  • I've got ER-32 collet chucks for MT3 to fit my mill and the headstock of my lathe and MT2 to fit the tailstock of my lathe
  • There's a nice ER32 chuck which fits my lathe and allows material pass-through



To me this all adds up to doing a system using ER-32 collet chucks and using an MT3 collet.


I can get ER-32 collet chucks with a few different shank diameters. I'd then modify either the MT3 collet or the ER-32 collet chuck to ensure the chuck and spindle mate.


I'm trying to decide on what diameter shank I'd like to use. I work in metric and have all metric tooling, so am trying to decide if using Tormach's 3/4" shank would be advantageous at all. It would allow me to use Tormach's tools if I liked, but would be the only 3/4" thing in my shop. If I DID decide to go 3/4", I can pick up five ER-32 collet chucks for $120.


I can get ER-32 collet chucks with 20 mm stub shanks, which look like they'd do the job. MT3 collets normally go up to 18 mm. I've found an 'oversized' 20 mm collet from a few sources and went ahead and picked one up to see how I like it.


I'm curious about the 20 mm collet being considered 'oversized'. It'll be thin, and I'm wondering if that will affect the performance of the system.


3/4" is 19.05 mm, so a 3/4" collet won't be a far departure for a metric shop, and I can get the collet chucks in 3/4". Tormach makes a 'special' 3/4" MT3 collet for their system, which I assume is just a bit shorter on the face to ensure the tools mate to the spindle face instead of the collet. It uses an inch-sized draw-bar instead of the M10 used by all of my other tooling, so that's not terribly appealing to me.


I'm also looking into other diameters. Maybe I could find ER-32 collets with 16 mm shanks, but would the smaller shank be more detrimental than the thinner collet of the 20 mm shank version?


Any thoughts?
 
If you run CNC or do alot of production work then The Tormach system is a good system. When used with a power drawbar.
 
I have quite a few TTS holders and like them quite a bit. I would suggest that, unless you are looking for a project, you would be hard pressed to produce er collet holders of the same quality at a comparable price to the TTS holders. I feel they are a very good value.

That being said, even if you go with your own, the 3/4" form factor is not bad, and you will have the option of purchasing commercial tools. I have seen quite a few folks make TTS holders, the only thing I would really recommend buying is the collet itself.
 
I'm starting to see that. 3/4" shank sounds like the way to go.

The problem I'm running in to is finding a 3/4" or 19 mm 3MT collet with an M12 drawbar.

I'm considering buying one with a 3/8" drawbar and drilling and tapping it for M12. The drill size for M12 is larger than 3/8", so if it can be done right it should clean up well, but that just sounds like trouble.
 
The 3/4 in 3MT collet and ER32 collet chuck came in yesterday. The TTS collet is shorter than my other 3MT collets, as expected. When the TTS chuck is inserted into the collet in the mill it sits with about 1 mm between the face of the chuck and the spindle. Just enough to see light through. The drawbar turns easily, pulling the chuck into the spindle. A change in the resistance of the drawbar shows that the chuck and spindle face are in contact. At this point the drawbar does not feel as tight as a regular 3MT collet when fully tightened, so I'm assuming it will want a bit more to be happy.
When loosening, a quarter turn of the draw bar breaks it loose, and a light tap with a hammer drops the collet. Much lighter than my other 3MT collets, and not the hammer-happy beating session that's required for solid shank 3MT tools, such as my 3MT ER32 collet holder or my slitting saw arbor.

Thus far I am pleased. I'll be purchasing a few more of these chucks and setting them up for my drilling operations and light end mills. If I feel a particular operation isn't happy in the TTS chuck then I have a 3MT ER32 collet chuck I can try it in, and still have repeatable Z axis positioning. If it's still not happy I can go to 3MT collets, but Z axis repeatability will be compromised.

Question for the peanut gallery: Would you expect a TTS setup using a 3MT spindle to be more or less prone to pull out than an R8 spindle, and why?
 
Hi burdickjp

I run the Tormach system on a manual mill in a fully metric hobby shop. My mill is a Sieg SX3 with R8 spindle. I can thoroughly recommend the Tormach system on a small mill for the convenience it provides even on a manual mill. If you have or can make a power drawbar even better! If you want I can supply details for a simple easily made Power drawbar.
Since all my tool holders are Tormach it matters little whether the tool holder shanks are imperial 3/4" or metric 20mm. Simarly if you have to use a 3/8' draw bar for your MT3 Collet what does it matter since you never have to change it.

What size is your mill? Given that it has a MT3 spindle I suspect it is reasonably small. If so why do you wish to run ER32 collet chucks. ER 16, 20 & 25 Chucks are much smaller and provide much better clearance and view of the workpiece. Any end mill larger than 15mm is pushing a small mill and these collets easily hold up to this size.

Are you aware of this supplier. I use their products and the quality and run out of their chucks seem excellent so far. At this price for ground chucks it is not worth trying to make them. They will mix & match if you want a few of each size. I use mostly ER20 with a few ER25 for 16mm End Mills.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/new-10pc...18?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3cce861f02
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/new-10pc...51?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3cce863ff3
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-10pc...49?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3cca155781
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/wholesal...15?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3a7d82a647

Also Little Machine Shop sells the Tormach 38mm Face mill with Tormach Shank which is a good size for your mill. LMS also sells Tormach drill chuck adapters.
If you wish to use a 50mm Face mill Bsello 168 sells a Tormach to 22mm Shank Face Mill adapter for standard face mills even though he does not list it on his eBay site. You have to ask.
If I can further assist please ask.
Cheers
Ron
 
Thanks, Ron!

ronboult said:
I run the Tormach system on a manual mill in a fully metric hobby shop. My mill is a Sieg SX3 with R8 spindle. I can thoroughly recommend the Tormach system on a small mill for the convenience it provides even on a manual mill. If you have or can make a power drawbar even better! If you want I can supply details for a simple easily made Power drawbar.
Since all my tool holders are Tormach it matters little whether the tool holder shanks are imperial 3/4" or metric 20mm. Simarly if you have to use a 3/8' draw bar for your MT3 Collet what does it matter since you never have to change it.
Click to expand...

I try to standardize as much as possible, and weigh carefully before deviating. I went ahead and went for Tormach's collet and the 3/8 inch draw bar. When I do have to switch to any of my other tooling, it's not hard to pull the drawbar and drop in another. I'll eventually, probably, find a way to drill and tap this to match my other tools, as the minor diameter of M12 is bigger than the major diameter of 3/8-16.

ronboult said:
What size is your mill? Given that it has a MT3 spindle I suspect it is reasonably small. If so why do you wish to run ER32 collet chucks. ER 16, 20 & 25 Chucks are much smaller and provide much better clearance and view of the workpiece. Any end mill larger than 15mm is pushing a small mill and these collets easily hold up to this size.
Click to expand...

It's an X2. I went with ER32 to be able to share collets with other tooling. I can get an ER32 collet chuck for my lathe which will allow material pass through. I've got a chuck for the tailstock for it as well.

ronboult said:
Are you aware of this supplier. I use their products and the quality and run out of their chucks seem excellent so far. At this price for ground chucks it is not worth trying to make them. They will mix & match if you want a few of each size. I use mostly ER20 with a few ER25 for 16mm End Mills.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/new-10pc...18?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3cce861f02
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/new-10pc...51?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3cce863ff3
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-10pc...49?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3cca155781
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/wholesal...15?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3a7d82a647

Also Little Machine Shop sells the Tormach 38mm Face mill with Tormach Shank which is a good size for your mill. LMS also sells Tormach drill chuck adapters.
If you wish to use a 50mm Face mill Bsello 168 sells a Tormach to 22mm Shank Face Mill adapter for standard face mills even though he does not list it on his eBay site. You have to ask.
If I can further assist please ask.
Cheers
Ron
Click to expand...

Nifty. I'd like to stick with chucks which have the ATC groove, as I've stupid dreams of one day having a CNC with ATC, but that's probably just silliness. None-the-less the genuine Tormach chucks aren't terribly expensive.

Thanks, again.
 
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