Older Sherline 4000 for Beginners First Lathe?

[mals]

Hello all, and thanks for all the information I've been absorbing since finding this forum.

I have an interest in learning model machining with the goal of making a few simple projects, and then moving on to some beginner air/steam models, and ultimately small IC / Hit & Miss models.

My original plan was to get something similar to the LittleMachine Shop 5100 7x16" lathe to learn on, prove that I like machining, and then likely move up to something like a Precision Matthews PM1020 lathe and PM25 mill as my skills and projects increase. However, even the LMS 5100 is a big investment in an unproven hobby.

Today a 1976 Sherline 4000 came up locally on Craigslist. It includes the Sherline 3050 Milling Column attachment for the lathe base, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, and a jacobs chuck for the tailstock. This is the original US made model with a brass lathe bed and milling column and a 1/5 HP AC/DC motor. It has been owned by the sellers father since purchased new in 1976. Looks like it has been sitting for a while with some flash rust on the chucks and ways. They are asking $500, and I was thinking of offering $350. That would leave me some money to get the quick tool post and some basic tooling. Sherline also offers and upgrade package to install their current 90V DC 1/2HP motor and controller on the 4000 for about $300.

What are the thoughts on getting this as an intro setup to work on basic skill for a few years while I save up for the PM1020 and PM25 and skip the LMS 5100 all together? I think I understand the limitations of the micro Sherline lathe/mill setup, but it looks like some have tackled small model engine builds with similar equipment.

Any and all input or comments are welcome.

-mals

 

[mikey]

Welcome to HM, mals.

The thing to remember about Sherline machines is that they are all upgradable to current model standards. You can change to bed to a steel one, upgrade the motor and controller, etc. The cost to do these upgrades is fairly reasonable compared to other machines and the quality of Sherline products is the best on the mini-machine market. You can go here to see how the different models have evolved.

As for the deal you have in front of you, I think $500 is way to high. I suspect that lathe is a short bed model and I think $300 would be more realistic.

If you buy it, I would buy a milling base to put the milling column on. Using the column on the lathe only allows rudimentary function and a real base will greatly improve your capabilities. You should also know that the earlier chucks are of better quality, at least in my opinion, provided the original owner didn't beat them up.

In terms of the suitability of Sherline tools to learn on, I think they will work fine for your stated needs. You're right; you don't even know if you'll enjoy this hobby (but I bet you will) so keeping your initial investment low is smart. However, do not underestimate what Sherline machines can do. With the proper tooling, especially lathe tooling, it will keep up with machines much larger. They are also capable of great precision, although much of that is the user.

Bottom line: If you can snag that deal for $300 or so, I would jump. Then upgrade what needs upgrading and jump in!

 

[mikey]

I forgot I was going to link you to the modeler's page at Sherline. Have a look to see if what you have in mind fits in with what others have done. That will give you an idea as to whether Sherline machines are suitable in size for your needs.

I also wanted to tell you that any skills you learn on Sherline machines will transfer if you move up to larger machines. Almost everything I know about machining was taught to me by my Sherline lathe and mill, and I've been at it for over 35 years. I now own larger machines but still use my Sherline stuff often. So, learning? Yeah, you'll learn on Sherline machines.

 

[Forty Niner]

. They are asking $500, and I was thinking of offering $350. That would leave me some money to get the quick tool post and some basic tooling. Sherline also offers and upgrade package to install their current 90V DC 1/2HP motor and controller on the 4000 for about $300.

As a data point, I bought a 4 year old long bed Sherline lathe in very good condition with the standard accessories a while back for $500. It was on Craigslist also. The guy would not come off $500 point because he had so many inquires and standby buyers.

 

[martik777]

Here's another link to projects made on a Taig (similar size to Sherline): http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html

I bought a midsize lathe first (South bend 9A) and Taig 2nd. I do not think I would have enjoyed machining as much if I had started with the Taig or Sherline due to their limited size and capabilities (no power feed, no gearbox, no real compound, cramped working space, weak tailstock, lack of power, tiny spindle hole) I've actually tried to make parts that took 10 mins on the 9A but hours on the Taig.

 

[mikey]

Here's another link to projects made on a Taig (similar size to Sherline): http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html

I bought a midsize lathe first (South bend 9A) and Taig 2nd. I do not think I would have enjoyed machining as much if I had started with the Taig or Sherline due to their limited size and capabilities (no power feed, no gearbox, no real compound, cramped working space, weak tailstock, lack of power, tiny spindle hole) I've actually tried to make parts that took 10 mins on the 9A but hours on the Taig.

Your point is well taken, @martik777. A Sherline-sized machine does have its limitations and I can certainly understand how you feel. I also own an Emco Super 11 and it is vastly more capable than a Sherline.

I am curious how big a cut you can take in, say, 12L14 mild steel with your Taig vs the SB9.

 

[martik777]

Just tested some 1144: Taig was .010" DOC (.020" off diameter) before excessive chatter at ~ 1000rpm
SB9 got to .100" DOC (.200" off diameter) at ~ 500 rpm, no chatter DCMT insert limited a deeper cut. I normally don't take cuts much deeper than 30-40thou to maximize tool life but after seeing how easily it cut thru 100thou maybe I'm being too cautious.

The only reason I bought the Taig was because I got it for $40 w/o motor. I think a new base one is < $200 now. It is a very precise and effective lathe within its work envelope and I love the high RPM. I may mod the headstock for an ER32 straight chuck to increase its thru hole.

 

[Aaron_W]

Yes it can be a good starting lathe, but there are two things to consider, size and condition. The Sherline is a very small lathe even by mini-lathe standards. Some parts on even a small model steam engine can be a challenge, but as long as you are aware of this limitation it is a very nice little lathe. The other concern would be the condition, a little rust isn't necessarily a big deal, but I would make sure it is just cosmetic.

The lathe with a milling column does give you a lot of capability starting out.


As far as price goes, you can get a barebones 8" Sherline 4000 / 4100 for $600, the C package adds a lot of tooling and brings the price up to $1200. The milling column is $126, the chucks run $100-120 each.

So literally the lathe (and a very early one at that), a couple of chucks and the milling column I'd say $500 is not out of line, but it isn't a great deal either. If there is other tooling with it that you didn't mention because you don't know what it is $500 could be a really good deal. If the prior owner actually used it there could easily be $1000-1500 (new) worth of lathe and tooling there.

Sherline is very good about ensuring that their tooling is backwards compatible, so there shouldn't be too much of an issue buying new attachments, or replacement parts.

I wouldn't worry about getting a quick change tool post. They are handy but buying a couple of extra Sherline tool posts will provide a fairly quick tool change as well, and fit the machine better.

Sherlines are pretty easy to sell, so as long as you pay a fair price you probably won't lose any money if you find machining isn't your thing.

 

[martik777]

I forgot about this site, probably one of the best model makers with a Taig size lathe I've encountered:

ModelEngines.info

Steam engines and other model engine construction on a model engineering and home shop machinist site. Includes home workshop with Taig lathe, Taig mill and mini lathes for metalworking.

www.modelengines.info

 

[mikey]

Just tested some 1144: Taig was .010" DOC (.020" off diameter) before excessive chatter at ~ 1000rpm
SB9 got to .100" DOC (.200" off diameter) at ~ 500 rpm, no chatter DCMT insert limited a deeper cut. I normally don't take cuts much deeper than 30-40thou to maximize tool life but after seeing how easily it cut thru 100thou maybe I'm being too cautious.

The only reason I bought the Taig was because I got it for $40 w/o motor. I think a new base one is < $200 now. It is a very precise and effective lathe within its work envelope and I love the high RPM. I may mod the headstock for an ER32 straight chuck to increase its thru hole.

That's a decent cut in 1144 for the Taig but I bet it will go deeper. A 0.100" deep cut in 1144 on the SB9 is surprising to me. I wouldn't have expected that lathe to take that cut with inserted carbide.

For $40.00, I would have bought the Taig, too!